Based on the lawsuits against Fox and Newsmax, which they lost because they lied about the integrity of voting machines, do we have any laws that could be used to prosecute news media or even Trump or Vance for lying about such serious matters when lives are at risk during natural disasters?
Thank you for all your thoughtful comments. It just seems like a systemic failure to regulate public safety given the inflammatory false rhetoric. It seems to me that there are a couple of specific responsible entities. News reports, for example, about foreign funded trolling have resulted in dismantling social media accounts. It seems at least similar to hate speech, or given the extended family and supporter fund flows, prosecutable under the RICO statutes. I imagine all of this is remote, but this whole situation seems like a fundamental threat to democracy.
COLUMBUS, Ohio (AP) — The leader of a nonprofit representing the Haitian community invoked a private-citizen right to file charges Tuesday against former President Donald Trump and his running mate, JD Vance, over the chaos and threats experienced by Springfield, Ohio, since Trump first spread false claims about legal immigrants there during a presidential debate.
I agree. Why oh why is the media legitimizing lying politicians as viable candidates for this nation? I cannot watch a debate filled with lies, knowing the moderators will not call Vance on his "creations."
Shari Redstone. "Redstone practiced corporate law, estate planning and criminal law in the Boston area before joining National Amusements (parent company of CBS).[10] Sounds liekke a Republican to me!
Scott Dworkin: “Here is my exclusive interview with Subodh Chandra, a former federal prosecutor, and the attorney representing the Haitian Bridge Alliance.”
This interview with Subodh Chandra is a must see/listen. His main point is to hold the prosecutor accountable. If any of us have done what Trump and Vance did, the prosecutor would have us arraigned a long time ago.
He also stressed that the entire city of Springfield was affected, not just the Haitians. Dworkin theorized that the R campaigns were looking for a swing state town they could use to blame immigrants for everything. September 9, they were told the story was false. September 10, Trump uses it and has done since.
Thank you Leader of nonprofit representing the Haitian community I was hoping some one would do that. It's worse than racism; it's double racism: going after a population that has had so much grief and just came here to work hard. These people should be protected, period.
If, for a moment, we think that the devastation wreaked upon our citizenry and their property by Hurricane Helene is calamitous, it is nothing but a small wind storm when compared to the destruction that a second Trump presidency would bring down upon us.
Or. Hate to remind anyone, but, how on earth are the men, women and children doing in Gaza? It's beyond anything. And, still getting bombed while taking refuge in "safe" destroyed schools.
You may also ask how the Israeli people are doing in the north with the daily attacks by the terrorist group Hezbollah. And the people in Tel Aviv who are being attacked by Iran. All the terrorist groups in the area, and Iran will not rest until Israel is obliterated. Its a terrible, terrible situation for everyone.
Good luck with that one, lying is such an inbuilt political activity, where do you start? Want to take Trump to court over an excess 400,000 or so excess Covid deaths, often because the victims refused to get vaccinations, also part of the long-lived anti-vax movement.
In my lifetime, I have never seen so many and such nasty lies believed by so many. Why would all those legislators who condemned tffg for January 6 turn around and support him? And NOW the NYT endorses Kamala after featuring Donnie for years! Let’s see if it starts telling the truth about polls of a thousand people. 🤮🤯🙀💩🤡🎃
The insipid orange turd was just as unfit to hold any office in 2020, 2021, 2022, 2023, and now in 2024. Nothing has changed, at least for the positive, that makes him more fit. My question for the NYT is, what took you so long?
The New York Times has never endorsed trump for President. They weasel around during the campaign, but when it comes to an official endorsement, they have never endorsed trump.
The New York Times Editorial Board is a stand-alone entity that has no influence on the news, analysis or opinion departments of the paper. Most egregiously, it has zero influence on the department that writes the headlines.
I'm far from convinced the NYT Editorial Board is as aloof and objective as you say. Similarly, the publisher has opinions which have very definitely found their way into the NYTs pages. Overall, despite their endorsement of Harris, the NYT's lukewarm support for her compared to their continuous amplification of every word Trimp or a loyal 'R' legislator has to say is impossible not to notice. "Their actions speak louder than their words."
National polls can obtain statistically valid results with 1,000 respondents if the sample is very carefully selected. The tricky part is how the respondents are “weighted” to balance them across the geography and demographics.
Long lived, but I lived longer, and remember lining up for smallpox, polio, and other vaccines and feeling much safer for it. Society seemed to be on the same side of that one, and I never got smallpox or polio. We have to ask ourselves why our per capita COVID death rate was so bad, in supposedly the richest, most medially advanced society in the world.
I also recall when being caught lying was at least sometimes considered very shameful, lacking in "decency".
It is a nice thought but those suits were brought by corporations with standing and resources to sue for defamation. There is no cause of action as far as I know for spreading disinformation to the general public, although I am pretty sure such suits have been attempted by pro se litigants. I suppose some sort of wrongful death theory by a person relying on the misinformation broadcast by a news outlet but that is a non starter.
I am not sure about laws per se but, there is a non-profit organization that supports Haitians and they are suing Vance and Traaaamp. If you can't get them into prison, take ALL their assets and use them to support marginalized people! I am SO sick of these people and the lies they spread without consequences!
Good point. I don't believe they've even filed a suit yet, just stated they were going to. But I could be wrong. As a practical matter, their comments about the Haitian thing aren't likely to even make them liable for damages let alone get thrown into prison. We just don't do that in this country.
It raises consciousness though, irrespective of a judgement. The sense of "normalcy" of predatory behavior is much of the problem. Look at how long slavery was tolerated.
I was thinking along two trains of thought: the liability for shouting "fire" falsely in a crowded theatre, or sedition or malfeasance that would be brought by the federal government against governors who fail to provide for their citizens.
I believe both notions would be non-starters. The "false fire in a crowded theater" is reserved for where the declaration is an inducement to an action which then harms people. If people stampede in response to yelling "fire", that is a direct inducement and causes actual damages. If you yell "there is no fire" while flames are scorching you, the person who yelled "there is no fire" will not be held liable for your refusal to do something to save yourself when you have direct knowledge. In the case of lies about natural disasters, people who are there can see there is a natural disaster. If they listen to stupid false comments, its really on them.
As for sedition or malfeasance with respect to governors, it would have to be REALLY aggregious to have a legit cause of action. Governors, like congresscritters and other office holders have at least limited protection for what they say in there official capacities, up to a point. Failing to "provide for your citizens" I expect is NOT an affirmative requirement in most cases especially as it requires in most cases MORE than just the governor to act. In addition, the state legislatures can act as well and if they don't you aren't going to be able to charge all of them with malfeasance.
In general these issues are political, not legal and just aren't likely to be prosecuted. Not saying it CAN'T be done, just that it isn't likely.
The lawsuit says free speech which incites harm isn’t protected speech. If John Q Citizen had done what T and JD have done, prosecutors would have arraigned John Q.
Legal? Schmeegle..., whatever. Given the broad interpretations(s) of the 1st Amendment, hows about you and me come up with the words needed to shove our point clean up the poop-chute of the defense. Huh. Our case won't even make it to Section D, page 48. We're in a "mess" alright. Be prepared. Maintain cool. Sometimes silence is more than golden. Go vote. Remember, the "they" are out there trolling us. And we have been "trolled" before. Re: Weapons of mass destruction? We sucked it up because it came from people we thought were credible (Colin Powell). This crap coming at us today is so subtle, no wonder 'normal' people believe it. A "mess".., Tracy, you got that right!
Then again, if people listen to the "No help is given" lies, and consequently vote for trump, that WILL be harmful - for them and the country! So perhaps we could sue them on that basis?
Lady, last night I listened to the news segments about Helene and nearly all interviewed claimed that they were not getting any help despite the fact that the storm has made it next to impossible to get to certain areas. I couldn't help but wonder what these people would do if they found themselves in a war zone. Note too the contrast, death star on the ground and getting in the way while Biden intends to view things from the air. Also last night I saw a post by the Asheville airport showing the landing of a large cargo plane with supplies. With the announcement came the admonition not to come to the airport, that the supplies would be distributed to several collection points.
I can understand the people complaining about not getting any help - even if they should realise that it's almost impossible in places. When tragedies happen, finding someone to blame for something - ANYTHING! - is a very human trait. Not a good one, admittedly, but recognisable. Trying to act like a sensible grown up when your life just washed down a mountain is a very hard thing to do.
However, the News people trying to find things to moan about rather than offering support and comfort is a whole different story.
Unfortunately, Lady Emsworth, for us it'll take 4 years or better to get that in front of some "mediator". Too late! Besides, the system is polluted enough. The aberration of the 1st Amendment is what we are immersed in. Maintaining course is what we must do - Follow the North star..., it's still out there: One nation, indivisible.
A good result ( unlikely!)would be that Kamala gets in, AND we get an enormous majority in the House and Senate - then something might get resolved about these ancient anomalies (Electoral College, anyone?)
Pretty basic, isn't it, Jon. The mounds of paperwork (legal ground-work) generated trying.. TRYING, to prove guilt is so tenuous. And then, only to have the punishment be a fine that gets ameliorated (made less) because of so many mitigating (really vague) questions of guilt dug up and presented by the defense. Wasted time and money is what it amounts to. But, bad news sells, doesn't it? This is so so sickening. Makes me want to punch the next (R)ss-hole who steps foot (trespasser) in my driveway right smack in the nose. Who might that include..? You decide..., they need to get their minds right. (I edited my post to remove the name of a certain 'reporter')
One further issue is that as for the first alternative, if it was cognizant at all, it would be strictly a state law claim and you would have state courts…most likely in red states where this kind of dynamic is at play…many who elect their judges or are appointed by the very same truth distorting governors. There really is no federal question jurisdiction for a federal court in any of this. Who knows though, the congress could conceivably create a civil or criminal cause of action if the legislatures could agree that this misinformation with, now AI magnification and multiplication, warrants this type of check. But, good luck with that. (Cf: Gavin Newsom just vetoed a legislative bill meant to put some guardrails on AI because of the speculative economic impact on his tech heavy state.)
Yeah, I was distressed about his veto although I did understand where he was coming from. I expect the law would have been overturned anyway, but I had hoped he would at least stand up for it. No such luck.
Donald John Trump has taught us two critical facts: 1) Democracy in America is not an absolute given, it is fragile; and 2) some of our citizens lean toward Fascism. Why not? The Old South was fascist and MAGA is nothing more than 21st century KKK: white Protestantism now, white Protestantism forever. MAGA is racist and fascist to its core.
Please rephrase it as white “Christianity,” or white faux Christianity. Protestantism is a very big tent with diverse views. Southern Baptists to Quakers. Even Evangelicals differ in their views.
This is a very nuanced discussion, and I don't believe it can be simplified. But the framers of our nation's systems could hardly have anticipated the tools of modern media to amplify and distort. As a writer, I'm aware that words create worlds. The fundamental principles of democracy give us freedom of speech as the highest good. On the other hand "Post modern" philosophy informs us that our individual backgrounds and experiences will result in infinite facets of valid perspectives. But we might reach into the history of rhetoric and wise governance to assign merit to those more trained and skillful in both. Unfortunately, the responsibilities of good journalism have also been corrupted. This has brought us to a situation where carnival barkers hold positions of power despite a complete lack of qualification. Harris and Walz's opponents have absolutely no education or experience in the most simple principles of civics. Instead they are schooled in elements of corruption and manipulation, abetted by embedded media channels. Seemingly, a perfect recipe for the fall of a civilization. This could be an open discussion for our highest intellects, and as serious as any climate change.
You are soooo right. The ultra wealthy and the extreme right wing coalesced and bought airtime and print to deceive the functionally illiterate whites into voting against their own best economic interests, destroying the Middle Class in America. Fox News and other media channels did the job. {Thomas Frank: "What's the Matter with Kansas?" 2004]
Economist Paul Krugman noted: “We’ve all become desensitized, but it’s amazing how at this point the Trump campaign rests entirely on denouncing things that aren’t happening—[an] imaginary bad economy, imaginary runaway crime and now an imaginary failure of Biden and Harris to respond to natural disaster.”
It is the “imaginary” aspect of the discourse initiated by one of the two parties in our system, that continues to be stunning. The reality of the recovery of our national economy concurrent with the reduction in inflation (also real) should be a cause for celebration by both political parties. The fact it is not is what is stunning to me.
Even I, who regularly read a variety of media, don't see anything remotely like comprehensive coverage of of the recovery of the economy/reduction in inflation, but I see plenty of "Trump said/did/charged/called Harris....etc." I am beyond fed up with the mainstream media.
Rupert has never told those for whom Fox is their trusted news source. And they are legion. That’s why the lies not only stick but are passed on as gospel. And of course, the real Gospels are skewed or outright changed to fit the narrative.
it is a massive paradox. Seems democracies can't protect themselves from "self-harm" if a significant segment wish things otherwise. In this case, power at the cost of everything else. I'm hoping that most of this torrent of untruths and vitriol has a limited, minority audience, and that Dems can manage to outsize that barrage when it comes to loyal and persuadable voters.
The Nazi propaganda like the MAGA lies relied on a willing audience who can easily ignore facts and nurture comfortable lies. Trump adores the big lie threat of Hitler who was capable of any height of ridiculous falsehood to demonstrate his own might to cheering rallies. Very similar people.
I miss Paul Krugman since I dropped my NYTimes subscription.
I wish he would move to substack and abandon the NYTimes or make a deal so he can publish on both. He is 70 years old and hopefully he could afford to abandon the NYTimes.
He has commented that he is on SS, so I'd be surprised if he isn't collecting the maximum of around $4700/mo.
I emailed him when I stopped my NYTimes subscription but he didn't respond.
I recently read “Stop Reading the News” by Ralf Dobelli. After, I canceled the NYT & CNN. HCR is the exception. Because her reporting connects the dots to reveal the big picture—instead of just adding more dots void of context. The result has been liberating of my time and the weight of news-related stress.
I keep my NYTimes on the basis of the total breadth and depth of their staffs.
I consult these spaces, Democracy Now and mostly written material for information.
But I am convinced the Times, WA POST and Guardian provide linchpins to the speeding pace of daily development. Few columnists or commenters have the acumen and capability of HCR to tie history to current events.
I have NYT at $2 per month to follow stories on Ukraine and Paul Krugman, also WaPo for $40 per year same reason. I dont read their American political stuff except Jenifer Rubin
Yes, I have reduced both subscriptions to digital too.
But my morning ritual is running through HCR, Robert Reich and then the Times and Post.
I may not agree with much editorial views and selections but organized information provides me with the news I find important and multiple viewpoints I can despise or absorb.
I draw very little information from the tube except Democracy Now that comforts me that people like Amy Goodman survive.
Cutting off televised McNews is vital - they hammer away relentlessly on the discussion points of the day and selectively show only what they choose for you to know about. That is why I switched off the teevee back during the Bush years.
What I've noticed too, is that their 'message' is fragile. That's a feature of propaganda: unless it's continuously reinforced sanity creeps back in. To prevent that, you can't leave any space for alternative or contrary ideas - your audience must only hear your story and no one else's at all times.
This explains why Fox is always playing at our military bases and in nearly all the restaurants & waiting rooms. That doesn't happen by mistake.
But this lying is spreading like cancer all the way down to local elections.
Look at Derrick Anderson (R) in Virginia’s 7th district borrowing a friend’s wife and daughters for a campaign ad. That’s a form of lying. Interesting though Anderson he is running against Eugene Vindman (D) yep the brother of Alexander Vindman. If Trump wins, you can bet your last nickel Vindman’s name is on the list.
Here in PA import our liars from other States. This election season we have Dave McCormick who lives in CT telling us how horrible Bob Casey is and how he could do a better job. He can’t even pronounce our beloved beer correctly. It’s Yuengling Dave! 🤦♀️ Last time it was Dr Ozz. But they show up spread lies, create dissection with their lies then go back to their home states. Lies have consequences!
Republicans were set to vote to convict Nixon of "the coverup" when he resigned. How times have changed. Liars are nothing new, but media (and $$$) have rendered us far more gullible.
Have long respected former Pres Carter, voted for him twice. Truly admire what he and Rosalind did post-presidency to work/volunteer in service to others. Remarkable people & worthy of being put on that proverbial pedestal. Oh, and I love their life-long love story too. 💖
According to what my daughter told me recently, Pres. Carter is a distant relative to us. She has been researching our family history and informed me that it is true. I was a bit skeptical of her claim until i realized that my mother told me years ago that her maternal grandmother's maiden name was Hattie Carter. I was born and raised in here in Georgia so i guess it could be true. Pres. Carter is a great guy and a great humanitarian and the polar opposite of the horrible and brutally evil Donald TUMP.
It’s located on a hill Gary, so no flooding, we got a foot of rain in 2 days, the heavy winds passed east of us closer to Augusta so very little wind damage here in the Atlanta area, we were lucky, it was a biblical level storm and we live in a forest 🌳.
Love your love for Carter. I still don't see how Ford, who pardoned Richard Nixon, can be considered the best. I do not think he was the worst either, not even close, he was honest for the most part and did things that he truly believed in (as did Carter). But in my lifetime which starts with Eisenhower (not counting the one year with Truman in office right after I was born), I tend to consider Carter the best, Eisenhower the 2nd best, then Biden, Obama, Ford, Kennedy, LBJ, Nixon, Bush I, Bush II, Reagan and of course pulling up the outhouse car, Trump. Nixon ahead of the Bushes and Reagan? Absolutely. Nixon wasn't great, and he was forced out office, but his "crimes" were mostly stupidity, not intent to destroy the excellence of the country, whereas the Bushes and Reagan were malevolent to the country, and of course Trump is the devil incarnate.
Secretly bombing Cambodia and unleashing genocide, as well as his carpet bombing - which he upped way over LBJ - is hardly just a crime of stupidity. Nixon was truly malevolent, as was Bush II who lied us into war and destroyed a country of 25 million - even the loathsome and vile Trump hasn't managed that . . . yet. Then there is Biden's insouciance about genocide in Gaza in the face of a fascist government in Israel (I know, not how it's seen in the US, but there is a world elsewhere and that is how it in fact is). I have already cast my vote for Harris from abroad, but I have no sentimentality for most leaders. Yet in the main I agree with you - Carter was exemplary and the most moral, just, and intelligent of those who have held this office in my lifetime.
Why I admire President Carter so deeply was that he may have forfeited the 1980 election to make sure those fifty-two Americans kidnapped in Teheran would come home alive. Per your thoughts on support, Senator Kennedy's and Representative Anderson's opportunism did not help.
It is shortsighted to forget that the "evil Iranian empire" was a revolution against a far worse (at the time) Shah of Iran supported by the US government. I have no good feelings for either the Shah or Komeini but we tend to forget how dictatorial the Shah was in Iran.
And that revolution was a direct consequence of the Shah's having been reinstalled by the US and Britain, who worked covertly--and successfully--to overthrow Iran's democratically elected Prime Minister, Mohammed Mosaddegh, in 1953. He wanted to nationalize Iran's oil industry, so the profits would remain in the country rather than being siphoned off by the British.
The US/UK-instigated coup was successful: Iran lost their Prime Minister and was returned to the puppet rule of the Shah, while we lost the one of the last best chances we had to cultivate friendly relations with both the Iranian people and a democratically elected Iranian government.
All because the West did not want to lose the profits from Iranian oil. I don't know if this is the absolutely stupidest thing we have ever done, but I find it painful to consider what we--and Iran--could have had had we not thrown it away for short-term monetary gain.
Wikipedia has a decent rundown on the coup and on Mosaddegh:
"the evil Iranian empire holding US citizens hostage during the election cycle."
Reagan had a hand in that. We seem to decide many elections on some pretty superficial things, not connecting enough of the dots. It gets us into serious trouble and I think we can do a lot better, but first we have to recognize the problem. Reagan's narrative on government was a big lie. His claims about "Supply Side Economics" were another. It initiated a lot suffering that won't go away easily. We are still living with it, and climate abuse is only one of it's aspects, as is the extreme inimical division of our society. Republicans cynically rekindled the divisions of the Civil War, under a grotesque caricature of "Christianity" (the same brand that defended slavery).
My preference for President Ford is not shared by any other friend or acquaintance whom I know. Any ranking by me would be very subjective; as often motivated by my lack of knowledge as by some particular insight. 🤔
Two really hard Presidents to gauge are Presidents G.W. Bush and Obama. The former because some more perspective needs to be assumed to assess his performance; besides, I like him. The latter because a very obstructive Republican Congress denied President Obama a fair opportunity for greatness. 😳
Also, President Nixon may be under-esteemed via à vis candidate Trump. Notwithstanding my intense disliking of him as a teen, President Nixon, he did have enough respect for the rule of law to hand over the incriminating evidence. ⚖️
Thank you, Jon Rosen, as always for taking the time to write out a thoughtful response. 🤝
Carter was the first president I voted for. I did not vote for another winning president until Obama. (I had the luxury of voting independent in elections throughout the 80's; I refused to vote for Clinton, and voted independent then, although I did have the option.)
It is surprising to me that very few journalists in the corporate media talk about the lack of ANY accomplishments during the Trump Presidency that helped anyone but small groups of very wealthy individuals and large corporations.
And they have the nerve to use the phrase, "Make America Great Again," when they had 4 years in which they only rolled back progress made during the Obama Presidency and even before that.
Why does Trump get a complete pass on all the things he fucked up?
and it is real people actually carrying out disaster relief, and, I'm sure, regardless of personal political animus. Maybe small lights will dawn if they listen to some of those governors. I noticed Bill Lee was missing in the kudos to the Feds. Alas, God didn't listen to the hearts and prayers!
Bill Lee wanted a day of fasting and prayer on the 27th. Therefore he delayed asking for a disaster declaration. Then legislator Jeremy Faison deceitfully praised Biden for FINALLY responding. TN regularly turns down federal assistance (Medicaid expansion being the most egregious) while its citizens pay the price for their ideological actions. They discussed passing on millions in educational assistance because of “the strings attached,” although, when asked to describe those, they couldn’t. They just intuitively KNEW—you know, like Mike Johnson knows intuitively there is gobs of illegal voting though he can’t prove it.
But they "BELIEVE" with all their stony hearts. Then they turn around and lie. What a bizarre dichotomy. Believe your god will save you, and blame the Democrats when s/he doesn't.
I always thought that god helped those who helped themselves. So all the thoughts and prayers, which at times might be an appropriate expression of sympathy, really need to be backed by action. From the gop that expression is empty since they never do anything!
1. How, how do we stop these lies? Is there any legal recourse? Slander? Libel? Bearing false witness? I am exhausted by the 9 years of the constant bold faced lies that are so easily debunked and to be laughable? But the press reports them and people believe the,, despite evidence to the contrary and plain old common sense.
2. How do we make people understand the connection to the prosperity in their home towns and the largess of the government? How can we get them to see the connection between voting for trump and losing out on those nice government projects that are bringing good paying jobs to their communities?How can we make them understand that the plans of Project 2025 are coming for them? That Project 2025 will literally ruin their lives. And their kids and grand kids will hate them for being complicit?
Both those things require the people voting for Trump to consume that news/information from a source they trust. It might have been network news in the past. It might have been from the pulpit at church. But those things won’t happen to reach Trump voters now. Getting them facts won’t happen. We have to turn out in numbers never seen before to simply vote to elect Democrats up and down the ballot.
This is correct. Given the stratification of our media, those on the far right aren't listening to even the MSM nowadays, they are plugged into Fox and worse. So the only way to win is to outnumber them EVERYWHERE, but particularly in the swing states.
Politicians seem to have the right to lie; they call it free speech. But when “news” channel staff repeat the lies, they should be sued—especially if they have been warned. Tie them up in lawsuits.
They don't "call it free speech" it IS free speech as defined by the founders/framers of our nation including Jefferson, Adams and Madison. News channels REPORT the comments, they don't state them as their beliefs, and their JOB is to report what is said. Any lawsuits against the "fourth estate" for these kinds of actions will be almost immediately dismissed and you may find yourself on the end of a very expensive legal bill assessed against you by the court for bringing a frivolous action.
Yeah, but first, that was a civil suit brought by Dominion, not a governmental attempt to charge Fox with some criminal act like sedition. Second, it was a corporate act in a media outlet. That is very different from individual quotes by politicians. If Trump made the same comments that Fox News did (and he has), he would never be held liable for any damages, because individual free speech rights are significantly more extensive than corporate.
I like "punched in the nose" better. Makes me feel better. Yeah.. I feel better already, having said that. But, right now, I've got 2 moorings I need to drop right out front, here on the Kennebec, before the river gets icey.
Dinged? Haahaa... for that Faux operation, it was merely the price of the ride. Chump-change in the billion-dollar world we're in today. When a normal house on the street owned by Jack Nicholson (reportedly) sells for $50,000,000 and the family of Saud takes a dump in a golden toilet..? $80,000,000 hardly rings a bell. Just the same, if you'll pardon me, "flush hard - it's a long way to mar-ah-laygo."
Dominion Voting Systems v. Fox News = $787 million settlement paid by Fox. Does require attorney fees, but I didn’t read if Dominion’s outside counsel was on retainer, had a contingent fee arrangement or some sort of hybrid fee.
You sure are hitting on the obvious paradox. My response which I believe to be simplistic is also what I believe to be true--the lack of critical thinking. It is truly difficult to digest that racism, misogyny, and ignorance blinds one to the reality that voting the wrong way will
strip them of all the benefits you've enumerated and plummet all of us into authoritarian hell...
Those clucks are "good' with the narrative that "it's all libtard garbage and is made up of lies". They're outwardly content to spew that in our face. They are convinced, and convince their kids too, that "libtards" (U & Me) are the CAUSE of high prices & ad infinitum. They like referring to "U & Me" as Libtards because it sounds so great and they don't need to explain what Democrat or Democracy is to their kids.
Speaking about what voter would still endorse Trump, when all can see that he acts like a buffoon with daily prejudicial disinformation.
On TV this morning, there was an interview of an author with a new book. Sarah Smarsh writes that she grew up in the midwest, and felt like she was treated as “invisible” by people around her. In her book, ‘Bone of the Bone’ she said her sensitivity about her sociopolitical class, and her hunger to be “seen”, makes people (like her) accept thugs (like) Trump, and will excuse their uncivilized behavior, just because of the attention she’s desperate for.
On the interview this morning, the TV host mentioned that she had read both of the authors books, but felt that this new book ‘Bone of the Bone’ seemed to express more rage.
Here is a review of her book (below).
REVIEW:
“In one searing—and stunning—collection, Bone of the Bone gives the often-ignored people in what some call ‘flyover country’ their due. [The] intersection of personal and political is where Sarah Smarsh’s powers of observation and will to incite change thrive. Bone of the Bone is a collection that offers a multitude of gifts on a variety of heavy-hitting levels and is a must-read for today’s politics."
—San Francisco Chronicle
I wasn’t really empathetic to the author about her plight, maybe I felt she was a bit exaggerated on feeling like a victim, or maybe I just don’t know how you would not have enough self esteem to walk away from someone like Trump, instead of putting up with misogyny just to have attention.
I grew up in flyover country surrounded by steel mills and oil refineries. My family was middle class and so were my friends’ and classmates’ families. I do NOT understand the source of this rage. I will admit, however, I might just be one of the lucky ones raised by parents who didn’t expect to be handed anything and worked hard. But we weren’t special. I just don’t get it.
I grew up in "fly over country," and I understand her plight.
Nebraska had two of the worst Republican Senators (Roman Hruska and Carl Curtis) who accomplished nothing (sound familiar) for over 25 years to help the people of NE. And now they have two more horrible Republican Senators who are about to be reelected.
There are small pockets of Democrats outside of Omaha and Lincoln whose votes are basically worthless.
On the other hand they have elected several prominent Senators that actually tried to do what was best for their constituents -- Bob Kerrey, Ben Nelson, Ed Zorinsky as well as Mike Johanns and Chuck Hagel and of course the greatest Senator of all time - George W. Norris who literally electrified much of rural America.
How illuminating, thank you. How victimized dies one have to feel to prefer a called-out demented soulless conman, rapist, cheat, and murderer to lead our country? Simple—non-critical thinking….
When you really think about it, many of these often-ignored people are generally ignorant. If one is an uneducated racist xenophobe who believes men should do whatever they want, they're not going to relate with Barak Obama or Kamala Harris. And then trump comes onto the scene. You can see why he's their guy....
Kathleen, "attention" is where it's at for 'those' people. It appears people are starving for it. Huh? Sure! Just look at all the tattoos out there. The hats on backwards. The pants dragging down below ones butt. Breast-flesh above and below the bra or tank-top. Eyelashes you can sweep a floor with. Service pets (hopefully the pets are paying attention to the owner) for insecurity issues. Whew. How about beer-guts and really noisey Harleys? Probably struck a nerve with that last one.
I don’t like the characterization of those who would vote Republican as ignorant or low class. I know many who consider themselves “conservative “ and who find themselves unable to vote for “liberals” and these people are neighbors, yours and mine.
Hope you're not referring to anything I might have posted. Trouble is, at this very moment the ship is listing very badly due to the narrative being fed to and consumed by the (R)ss-holes, be they neighbors or not. And if conservatives (R) types are hell-bent on voting straight republican, they'll reap what is being sown. All that aside, who do you think has more service animals?.. republicans or democrats? jusss askin. And, then explain why.
We can insist on an educational system that teaches people to think rationally. We can insist that history and civics are taught and that private and religious schools must meet the same rigorous standards of education we should demand of public education. It would also be helpful if family financial management and effective parenting were included in the curriculum.
Terry you summed it up. If we want to be a nation "indivisible" standardization is a must. Not to be construed as some evil 'indoctrination attempt'. And that "system" must include/address accountability for homeschooling. The incentive needs to be on a sound public school system.
Speaking truth. “Women are not some collectively owned piece of community property the disposition of which is decided by majority vote.” And definitely not by minority vote either!
All discussions regarding woman versus fetus should begin with the assumption that both have equal rights. The rights of the fetus do not trump a woman's rights.
President Biden is proving his statesmanship. The amazing aspect of this President is his continuing inward growth, his search for meaning by leading in the spirit of public service. See quote below.
"When a reporter asked President Biden and Democratic North Carolina governor Roy Cooper to respond to Trump’s accusation that they are ignoring the disaster, Biden responded: 'He's lying. And the governor told him he was lying . . . I don't know why he does this . . . I don't care about what he says about me, but I care what he communicates to the people that are in need . . . I assume you heard the Republican Governor of Georgia talk about that he was on the phone with me more than once. So that's simply not true. And it's irresponsible.'"
Joe Biden continues to be impressive in performance in a very difficult environment. His only current sin in my view is his inability to have stopped the aging clock some years ago.
Joyce Vance, in a post just minutes prior to this HCR letter, talked extensively to the MAGA attack on voting rights and the case in the fifth circuit court of appeals, RNC vs, Wetzel. Her post is well worth reading, IMO, though recognizing the potential impact of the wrong ruling in this case sent a chill down my spine.
So no one needs to look for it, here’s a link to Joyce’s post:
Read that article, too, Gary. Thank you for recommending it. Ms Vance makes a strong case for not upsetting the apple-cart. The insidious part if that the Trumpers will either win to suppress votes but if the Trumpers lose, they will use the late-arriving ballots as indicative of voter fraud.
I'm wondering about the impact of the hurricane on the elections in FL, GA, NC, SC, VA and TN.
All of these states have passed voter laws making it difficult for people to vote, especially GA. If someone's home is uninhabitable are they still eligible to vote? And what if their temporary residence is a motel in another voting precinct. Can they still vote in their old county? If not, and they vote where there damaged home is, is that voter fraud?
I only hope this administration has some really astute heads convening as we read here. What we have is an opportunity to EXCELL. Quite simply, "they" better not fumble this. I believe this is an unprecedented disaster affecting almost 1/5 of our nation. So many people have lost every-freaking-thing they owned, including the earth they built on. They have no places of employment, no money, no cars, no roads in or out, nothing but each other.., and our government. But, wait.. aren't there 350million of us? Go ahead, ask me for some help: I'm in.
And what if their entire town was affected? Votes have to be counted somewhere and poll workers need to not only be available but have a facility in which to work. A catastrophe of this magnitude affects the entire system. I have lots of questions but absolutely no answers.
I see another NYT editorial board denouncing Trump and putting forth Kamala as the only worthy candidate, from the news outlet that "most" people here love to hate.
Sadly, many of the commentaries I read today are that few people who count (particularly the marginal swing state voters) are connected to this at all. They are still giving Trump the benefit of the doubt and it poses great risk for the election. I don't know if there is a good solution. The pandemic and Trump's immediately previous 12-24 months in office provided good direct information to marginal swing voters in the 2020 election, and Biden was a favorable "good old dad" type in that election. This year, Trump has been out of office for 4 years and most people have amazingly NOT paid attention much to him so their negative thoughts when they went to the polls in 2020 have mostly been swept over. What's funny to me is that if he presented a much MORE "kindly" face, he might still sweep in, but he is done in often by his own inability to appear diplomatic. So his tweets may still kill him in this election, but it is going to be VERY VERY VERY close.
Wheww...! Jon, looking at photo-ops of trump the past week and right now, his make-up artists are doing miracles with his appearance. Surely you can see it. Surely we all see it and the effect is subtle...but, it's THERE! Look at his complexion, his hairstyling. But, even more, observe the videos and photos appearing thanks to careful selection by his managers. I don't think i'm imagining this, the POS really look presidential. Just like Reagon did. And, Com-la..., hmmmm, not so much. THE administration needs to pay attention and 'stage' VP Harris as we want to view "a Commander In Chief" . Appearance is huge. Hillary could have done even better than she did, had some appearances gone better.
The problem is, the people who need this info that were affected by the hurricane are without power or news. Unfortunately, word of mouth repeating Trump's garbage will be what is heard and believe d.
Well Gary, we here, know he's a total POS (ie, piece of s--t). His fans could care less what we think. To them we're just libtards - stupid as dirt. To them, he has done "so many great things".... (huh? name a couple?). So any negative press is just Democrat crap and they let it in one ear and out the other... straight thru. Yup. Whoosh. OKay.. so why do "they" feel that way? Welp.. because you and I both know very well that our government has indeed dropped-the-ball.., and "lied about it", at other times of crisis, re: "Good job Brownie - Dubya". And, that's good enough for "them" and the MAGA narrative they're being fed. Just the same.., "we" ned to help every single one of those folks who have lost everything... E V E R Y T H I N G, together with their neighbors who are feeling the impact of this current unprecedented disaster. THIS one. Joe, do your best, you're in the drivers seat. Don't refer to your "flyovers" as a gottdamned "tour" ..pulllease!
Healthy 2 party debate is a cornerstone of our system. But these constant lies and the grandstanding of Trump and his ilk are just so totally counterproductive and destructive. His very being as the "character" he is, is based on the ever expanding version of this mythological world of his. Where democrats are evil all of the time...and he is the hero...all of the time...or the victim, when it does not go well for him. I'm so tired of being portrayed as part of an evil, socialist, fascist, gay-trans deep state conspiracy...who just want to hurt people in red MAGA hats....who just had their home & car float down river. Or brown & black immigrants are eating the pets of the "civilized" white MAGA people. Or that I want to kill babies. This is so beyond anything we have dealt with in our life time. Yes there have been KKK & Nazi rallies for a long time...but this is insane....and Fox, Rush, podcasts, FB & YT have made it all possible like this. 50 years ago a snake oil salesman in a traveling tent show could only touch so many people. Now he's everywhere...and gets amplified by our media. I just hope this VP debate tonight shines a light on how obscene this has become.
I’ve a friend who’s a kind and decent man. He’s voting for Trump - who has literally the opposite character to that of my friend. This amazes and saddens me - and there’s nothing I can do about it.
I cannot comprehend anyone kind and decent voting for someone who is the opposite of kind and decent. Either they don't know who they are voting for or are in it for the money and don't want others less fortunate to benefit.
“Ignoring” is a generous critique Herb. It is more like they are burning down the house and putting up one of those plasterboard facades of their own ghoulish design and praying no one will look behind to see the burned out rubble behind. Happy early Halloween, all trick no treat.
There is more to be noted about the Georgia abortion case. The (white male) Georgia Fulton county superior judge, Robert McBurney made what is one of the most powerful arguments about the absolute immorality of pre-viability abortion bans I have yet heard: “For these women, the liberty of privacy means that they alone should choose whether they serve as human incubators for the five months leading up to viability,” McBurney wrote. “It is not for a legislator, a judge, or a commander from The Handmaid’s Tale to tell these women what to do with their bodies during this period when the fetus cannot survive outside the womb any more so than society could – or should – force them to serve as a human tissue bank or to give up a kidney for the benefit of another.”
In a footnote, McBurney added: “There is an uncomfortable and usually unspoken subtext of involuntary servitude swirling about this debate, symbolically illustrated by the composition of the legal teams in this case. It is generally men who promote and defend laws like the Life Act, the effect of which is to require only women – and, given the socio-economic and demographic evidence presented at trial, primarily poor women, which means in Georgia primarily black and brown women – to engage in compulsory labor, ie, the carrying of a pregnancy to term at the government’s behest.” https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2024/sep/30/georgia-abortion-ban-overturned
And of course, this does not even include the immorality of denying woman potentially life saving reproductive healthcare.
Like horrific hurricane, Trump and Vance are both going on torrents of raging lies lately.
MAGA and its tens of millions roar for more lies. They are trying to disenfranchise voters from the ballot – black, brown, and others of color.
They’ve all gone to the schools that taught none to see anybody as individuals, only to group themselves and abstract “others.”
Trump and Vance should lose in five weeks, but they’ll go on damning, demeaning American voting. Their cultists will continue their anger towards the U.S.'s college educated and bi-coastal who also attended schools that gave no one any humanities to see anyone on the bottom of the income equality gap, as Sarah Smarsh describes in her new book of essays, “Bone of the Bone.”
The rage she, a white (educated) woman from rural Kansas, feels is what happens when schools dump humanities. Then, most lacking models for seeing “others,” doors open for the demagoguery now largely ruling.
Good lord Phil, could you write even ONE comment without finding a way to slot the word "humanities" into it? We get it, you love the humanities (I do too) and you hate what the school system has done to it, but frankly they care more about STEM these days than Shakespeare and Chaucer.
How about, then, Jon, schools teach not so much humanities, as others in the room?
That is, have everyone introduce themselves by written essays, citing specifics as to who they are by the styles of food-clothing-shelter they inhabit. Shelter could include building insides (interior design), as well as landscapes outside, and modes of travel in those landscapes.
Everyone read everyone's, then discuss. Then rewrite, now quoting others in the room with tastes or circumstances similar to one's own. Name the others with generosity towards their specificity.
This gambit may go on, in levels of citing others (naming persons for their similar issues across the campus, or naming instructors for theirs -- from books they have written or lectures they have given.
It may go on, as in Jews referring to Palestinians as individuals. Japanese citing Koreans or Chinese as individuals. Inner city black citing white youth on the prairie.
After students get very good at seeing others, crediting them generously, gambit may open up to humanities "others" love.
Commenting has now tapered off for what Heather has most recently prompted, but I see you've remained silent on mine to you re your annoyance at today's death of the personal in contemporary education -- in the U.S. as well as more onerously around the world.
Sarah Smarsh had people like you in mind when she wrote the book of essays she most recently published, and to which I referred. Too many belittle humanities as mere, quaint consumerism choice -- and like you can cite, will never cite anything more apt "than Shakespeare and Chaucer."
Regarding Trump's attacks on the recovery effort: Every accusation is a confession of his own bad behavior. DeSantis is a little different. Everything he hides, everything he prohibits discussion of is a confession that open discussion erodes his positions. The Republicans have been successful in finding truly terrible people to represent them.
Yes, but their success shows that it is a strategy that can work. Why? Because MOST people out there are NOT like us (readers of HCR's columns). They don't even care about most of this. 2020 happened in the middle of the pandemic. People were scared and Trump isn't the most likely source of confidence. But now, 4 years later, it is in many peoples' rear-view mirror. They want to forget it even happened (even though it is STILL raging through our population in 6 month cycles and still killing people although nowhere near as many as it did in 2020. The point is that glossing over this is easy and the people who will make the vital decisions in 2024 are just as likely to see Tump as a great hero as a cruel joke.
Not sure how it will all end up, but I just keep working at it and keeping my fingers crossed.
In regards to Florida, remember the "private" aid fund run by DeSantis' wife from the previous hurricane? Are they using that money now since it was hardly touched before? Did anyone here see the 60 minutes story on FL insurance from Hurricane Ian? If not, you should because it is a perfect example of what the Heritage guys have planned for America.
wowser! wonder if that public report will shake things up, given also it's had lawmakers' attention? I suspect behind this is an almost catastrophic claims cost impact on insurers who cover disaster costs in Florida, and likely, elsewhere. Has there been some pullout by insurers in Florida already?
As someone who is reading Project 2025 in a book club, I know that the Republican plan is to have FEMA only fund 25 percent of costs of Natural disasters, and that is based on a ceiling of how much money they will give, which means poorer places will be getting less money. They also want to end government flood insurance. The irony is that while they are anti any sort of acknowledgement of climate change, if they want the government to not have to spend so much money on disasters, climate change needs to be acknowledged. FEMA monies could be tied to rebuilding not in flood plains or hurricane lanes, or fire zones, and the government could provide design plans for rebuilding carbon free, energy saving homes. Andra Watkins, whose Substack often analyzes the Christian Nationalist impacts of P2025, also analyzes financial costs. She posted a piece analyzing how these costs would effect people if there were no FEMA because she has land in North Carolina. https://substack.com/@andrawatkins/p-149572059
I would point out that this is not an exhaustive list of the costs, because with other P2025 plans, like getting rid of the Dept of Education, and Health and Human Services, hospitals and schools will have a hard time rebuilding. Also, the plan to get rid of millions of immigrants undocumented and other, means that there will be a shortage of labor for rebuilding. The economic base will be weaker because undocumented immigrants work and have put multiple billions into the economy, and their loss is not just going to be a humanitarian and perhaps genocidal disaster, but will lead to a loss of hundreds of billions of tax monies in the economy. Also, getting rid of them will be expensive and that will take a lot of taxpayer dollars, leaving fewer for other things. In fact, the immigration plans of Trump are so drastic, and like Reagan will be swift horrid actions, that will be enormously expensive, violate human and legal rights, and will be hard to undo once done. That is the plan to swiftly do things that are hard to undo. So, the more I read P2025, the more I recognize its ability to turn the US into a third world country. We need to be reclaiming the young men that are going for Trump as a cool guy who gets things done.
Barbara, we are all members of Democrats Abroad. Earlier this evening we were discussing the Department of Defense chapter of Project 2025. So, they are all going to be voting for Harris-Walz and from my experience we seem to have shared values politically because of this. One is a diplomat and so is her husband, another is doing his PhD in Foreign policy and has interned in branches of the military. Another is involved in technology work and says that the Biden administration is doing a really good job of keeping the necessary parts to develop the best weaponry from China and Russia, and this is an area he knows about. The people are interesting, and we each bring our own thing to the group. We do not always agree on details, but that is because we have different experiences, but everyone listens when someone has some expertise that provides insight into what we are discussing. I think we all look forward to these discussions, and we are learning a lot about the way the government works.
Based on the lawsuits against Fox and Newsmax, which they lost because they lied about the integrity of voting machines, do we have any laws that could be used to prosecute news media or even Trump or Vance for lying about such serious matters when lives are at risk during natural disasters?
Thank you for all your thoughtful comments. It just seems like a systemic failure to regulate public safety given the inflammatory false rhetoric. It seems to me that there are a couple of specific responsible entities. News reports, for example, about foreign funded trolling have resulted in dismantling social media accounts. It seems at least similar to hate speech, or given the extended family and supporter fund flows, prosecutable under the RICO statutes. I imagine all of this is remote, but this whole situation seems like a fundamental threat to democracy.
In Ohio, there is a law that allows citizens to file a lawsuit against people like JD and Donald for make false claims that endanger citizens
https://apnews.com/article/haitian-immigrants-springfield-charges-trump-vance-012af00a8677da5caed55d03e8779774
COLUMBUS, Ohio (AP) — The leader of a nonprofit representing the Haitian community invoked a private-citizen right to file charges Tuesday against former President Donald Trump and his running mate, JD Vance, over the chaos and threats experienced by Springfield, Ohio, since Trump first spread false claims about legal immigrants there during a presidential debate.
Olbernann says CBS should cancel -- Vance is a liar who fabricated the Springfield BS story and endangers lives.
We need a LIAR bell to go off everytime a candidate fabricated during the debate. A LOUD liar bell.
It would be nice if their pants really would catch on fire.
Thanks for the laugh out loud comment. Made my day. Even had a visual of that happening. Oh please let it happen.
What? I can't hear you.
I favor an electric shock collar.
I agree. Why oh why is the media legitimizing lying politicians as viable candidates for this nation? I cannot watch a debate filled with lies, knowing the moderators will not call Vance on his "creations."
Because many of them are owned and controlled by the far-right extremists. They assist in controlling the narrative, just like FOX.
Shari Redstone. "Redstone practiced corporate law, estate planning and criminal law in the Boston area before joining National Amusements (parent company of CBS).[10] Sounds liekke a Republican to me!
Scott Dworkin: “Here is my exclusive interview with Subodh Chandra, a former federal prosecutor, and the attorney representing the Haitian Bridge Alliance.”
https://www.dworkinsubstack.com/p/exclusive-video-lawyer-behind-trumps?r=fqsxl&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web
This interview with Subodh Chandra is a must see/listen. His main point is to hold the prosecutor accountable. If any of us have done what Trump and Vance did, the prosecutor would have us arraigned a long time ago.
He also stressed that the entire city of Springfield was affected, not just the Haitians. Dworkin theorized that the R campaigns were looking for a swing state town they could use to blame immigrants for everything. September 9, they were told the story was false. September 10, Trump uses it and has done since.
And while all this plays out, the band plays on.
Thank you Leader of nonprofit representing the Haitian community I was hoping some one would do that. It's worse than racism; it's double racism: going after a population that has had so much grief and just came here to work hard. These people should be protected, period.
Seriously:goddammit!!
It doesn't seem like, it actually is a threat.
100%
If, for a moment, we think that the devastation wreaked upon our citizenry and their property by Hurricane Helene is calamitous, it is nothing but a small wind storm when compared to the destruction that a second Trump presidency would bring down upon us.
Or. Hate to remind anyone, but, how on earth are the men, women and children doing in Gaza? It's beyond anything. And, still getting bombed while taking refuge in "safe" destroyed schools.
You may also ask how the Israeli people are doing in the north with the daily attacks by the terrorist group Hezbollah. And the people in Tel Aviv who are being attacked by Iran. All the terrorist groups in the area, and Iran will not rest until Israel is obliterated. Its a terrible, terrible situation for everyone.
Good luck with that one, lying is such an inbuilt political activity, where do you start? Want to take Trump to court over an excess 400,000 or so excess Covid deaths, often because the victims refused to get vaccinations, also part of the long-lived anti-vax movement.
In my lifetime, I have never seen so many and such nasty lies believed by so many. Why would all those legislators who condemned tffg for January 6 turn around and support him? And NOW the NYT endorses Kamala after featuring Donnie for years! Let’s see if it starts telling the truth about polls of a thousand people. 🤮🤯🙀💩🤡🎃
The insipid orange turd was just as unfit to hold any office in 2020, 2021, 2022, 2023, and now in 2024. Nothing has changed, at least for the positive, that makes him more fit. My question for the NYT is, what took you so long?
The New York Times has never endorsed trump for President. They weasel around during the campaign, but when it comes to an official endorsement, they have never endorsed trump.
The New York Times Editorial Board is a stand-alone entity that has no influence on the news, analysis or opinion departments of the paper. Most egregiously, it has zero influence on the department that writes the headlines.
I'm far from convinced the NYT Editorial Board is as aloof and objective as you say. Similarly, the publisher has opinions which have very definitely found their way into the NYTs pages. Overall, despite their endorsement of Harris, the NYT's lukewarm support for her compared to their continuous amplification of every word Trimp or a loyal 'R' legislator has to say is impossible not to notice. "Their actions speak louder than their words."
Gigi,
National polls can obtain statistically valid results with 1,000 respondents if the sample is very carefully selected. The tricky part is how the respondents are “weighted” to balance them across the geography and demographics.
Long lived, but I lived longer, and remember lining up for smallpox, polio, and other vaccines and feeling much safer for it. Society seemed to be on the same side of that one, and I never got smallpox or polio. We have to ask ourselves why our per capita COVID death rate was so bad, in supposedly the richest, most medially advanced society in the world.
I also recall when being caught lying was at least sometimes considered very shameful, lacking in "decency".
I can never wrap my head around the continued lying by the Republicans when all officials involved deny these lies!
There is a huge difference between fudging verifiable facts and fabricating facts that have no basis in reality.
It is a nice thought but those suits were brought by corporations with standing and resources to sue for defamation. There is no cause of action as far as I know for spreading disinformation to the general public, although I am pretty sure such suits have been attempted by pro se litigants. I suppose some sort of wrongful death theory by a person relying on the misinformation broadcast by a news outlet but that is a non starter.
I am not sure about laws per se but, there is a non-profit organization that supports Haitians and they are suing Vance and Traaaamp. If you can't get them into prison, take ALL their assets and use them to support marginalized people! I am SO sick of these people and the lies they spread without consequences!
I actually want to see that pleading. I wonder if it a hate crime theory.
Here it is..citizen lodged criminal complaint…https://www.chandralaw.com/files/assets/2024-09-24-bench-memo-and-guerline-jozef-of-haitian-bridge-alliance-affidavit-re-trump-vance-and-springfield.pdf
Wow, thanks for that, KSC.
Good point. I don't believe they've even filed a suit yet, just stated they were going to. But I could be wrong. As a practical matter, their comments about the Haitian thing aren't likely to even make them liable for damages let alone get thrown into prison. We just don't do that in this country.
At least not until Trump gets back into office!
One thing we do do, though, is litigate!
It raises consciousness though, irrespective of a judgement. The sense of "normalcy" of predatory behavior is much of the problem. Look at how long slavery was tolerated.
I was thinking along two trains of thought: the liability for shouting "fire" falsely in a crowded theatre, or sedition or malfeasance that would be brought by the federal government against governors who fail to provide for their citizens.
I believe both notions would be non-starters. The "false fire in a crowded theater" is reserved for where the declaration is an inducement to an action which then harms people. If people stampede in response to yelling "fire", that is a direct inducement and causes actual damages. If you yell "there is no fire" while flames are scorching you, the person who yelled "there is no fire" will not be held liable for your refusal to do something to save yourself when you have direct knowledge. In the case of lies about natural disasters, people who are there can see there is a natural disaster. If they listen to stupid false comments, its really on them.
As for sedition or malfeasance with respect to governors, it would have to be REALLY aggregious to have a legit cause of action. Governors, like congresscritters and other office holders have at least limited protection for what they say in there official capacities, up to a point. Failing to "provide for your citizens" I expect is NOT an affirmative requirement in most cases especially as it requires in most cases MORE than just the governor to act. In addition, the state legislatures can act as well and if they don't you aren't going to be able to charge all of them with malfeasance.
In general these issues are political, not legal and just aren't likely to be prosecuted. Not saying it CAN'T be done, just that it isn't likely.
So basically what you're saying is that it's perfectly legal to lie to people and to push propaganda in America. What a mess.
That has been going on at least since 1994 when Rove foisted W on Texas. I won’t even mention Nixon
It's been going on since the 1800s and don't forget that BOTH parties have engaged in it although the GOP moreso in the past 50 years.
The lawsuit says free speech which incites harm isn’t protected speech. If John Q Citizen had done what T and JD have done, prosecutors would have arraigned John Q.
The key is the word "incite". Court decisions generally require a call to action, not just mere "words".
Legal? Schmeegle..., whatever. Given the broad interpretations(s) of the 1st Amendment, hows about you and me come up with the words needed to shove our point clean up the poop-chute of the defense. Huh. Our case won't even make it to Section D, page 48. We're in a "mess" alright. Be prepared. Maintain cool. Sometimes silence is more than golden. Go vote. Remember, the "they" are out there trolling us. And we have been "trolled" before. Re: Weapons of mass destruction? We sucked it up because it came from people we thought were credible (Colin Powell). This crap coming at us today is so subtle, no wonder 'normal' people believe it. A "mess".., Tracy, you got that right!
First Amendment and all that.
Then again, if people listen to the "No help is given" lies, and consequently vote for trump, that WILL be harmful - for them and the country! So perhaps we could sue them on that basis?
Lady, last night I listened to the news segments about Helene and nearly all interviewed claimed that they were not getting any help despite the fact that the storm has made it next to impossible to get to certain areas. I couldn't help but wonder what these people would do if they found themselves in a war zone. Note too the contrast, death star on the ground and getting in the way while Biden intends to view things from the air. Also last night I saw a post by the Asheville airport showing the landing of a large cargo plane with supplies. With the announcement came the admonition not to come to the airport, that the supplies would be distributed to several collection points.
I can understand the people complaining about not getting any help - even if they should realise that it's almost impossible in places. When tragedies happen, finding someone to blame for something - ANYTHING! - is a very human trait. Not a good one, admittedly, but recognisable. Trying to act like a sensible grown up when your life just washed down a mountain is a very hard thing to do.
However, the News people trying to find things to moan about rather than offering support and comfort is a whole different story.
news producers go out of their way to find negative news! pathetic!
Unfortunately, Lady Emsworth, for us it'll take 4 years or better to get that in front of some "mediator". Too late! Besides, the system is polluted enough. The aberration of the 1st Amendment is what we are immersed in. Maintaining course is what we must do - Follow the North star..., it's still out there: One nation, indivisible.
Oh, I wasn't really thinking that could happen.
A good result ( unlikely!)would be that Kamala gets in, AND we get an enormous majority in the House and Senate - then something might get resolved about these ancient anomalies (Electoral College, anyone?)
Pretty basic, isn't it, Jon. The mounds of paperwork (legal ground-work) generated trying.. TRYING, to prove guilt is so tenuous. And then, only to have the punishment be a fine that gets ameliorated (made less) because of so many mitigating (really vague) questions of guilt dug up and presented by the defense. Wasted time and money is what it amounts to. But, bad news sells, doesn't it? This is so so sickening. Makes me want to punch the next (R)ss-hole who steps foot (trespasser) in my driveway right smack in the nose. Who might that include..? You decide..., they need to get their minds right. (I edited my post to remove the name of a certain 'reporter')
One further issue is that as for the first alternative, if it was cognizant at all, it would be strictly a state law claim and you would have state courts…most likely in red states where this kind of dynamic is at play…many who elect their judges or are appointed by the very same truth distorting governors. There really is no federal question jurisdiction for a federal court in any of this. Who knows though, the congress could conceivably create a civil or criminal cause of action if the legislatures could agree that this misinformation with, now AI magnification and multiplication, warrants this type of check. But, good luck with that. (Cf: Gavin Newsom just vetoed a legislative bill meant to put some guardrails on AI because of the speculative economic impact on his tech heavy state.)
Yeah, I was distressed about his veto although I did understand where he was coming from. I expect the law would have been overturned anyway, but I had hoped he would at least stand up for it. No such luck.
Alex Jones has to pay.
Donald John Trump has taught us two critical facts: 1) Democracy in America is not an absolute given, it is fragile; and 2) some of our citizens lean toward Fascism. Why not? The Old South was fascist and MAGA is nothing more than 21st century KKK: white Protestantism now, white Protestantism forever. MAGA is racist and fascist to its core.
Please rephrase it as white “Christianity,” or white faux Christianity. Protestantism is a very big tent with diverse views. Southern Baptists to Quakers. Even Evangelicals differ in their views.
I'm citing the KKK rallying cry.
I forgot they hated Catholics and Jews as well as people of pigment.
…and why not if we don’t…this is NOT FREE SPEECH it is costing lives and causing grief..
This is a very nuanced discussion, and I don't believe it can be simplified. But the framers of our nation's systems could hardly have anticipated the tools of modern media to amplify and distort. As a writer, I'm aware that words create worlds. The fundamental principles of democracy give us freedom of speech as the highest good. On the other hand "Post modern" philosophy informs us that our individual backgrounds and experiences will result in infinite facets of valid perspectives. But we might reach into the history of rhetoric and wise governance to assign merit to those more trained and skillful in both. Unfortunately, the responsibilities of good journalism have also been corrupted. This has brought us to a situation where carnival barkers hold positions of power despite a complete lack of qualification. Harris and Walz's opponents have absolutely no education or experience in the most simple principles of civics. Instead they are schooled in elements of corruption and manipulation, abetted by embedded media channels. Seemingly, a perfect recipe for the fall of a civilization. This could be an open discussion for our highest intellects, and as serious as any climate change.
You are soooo right. The ultra wealthy and the extreme right wing coalesced and bought airtime and print to deceive the functionally illiterate whites into voting against their own best economic interests, destroying the Middle Class in America. Fox News and other media channels did the job. {Thomas Frank: "What's the Matter with Kansas?" 2004]
If it is against the law to yell fire in a theatre, where one isn’t happening, why aren’t they arrested for basically the thing?
Here, for example is a really good discussion between UPenn professor, author of "Democracy and Truth" and a media polling expert. The discussion starts with the notion of "common sense," then advances to the notions of truth and governance. https://omnia.sas.upenn.edu/story/omnia-podcast-democracy-presidential-election-episode-one-sophia-rosenfeld
I seem to recall the courts have stated it is permissible to lie when campaigning for office.
I wish!!!
- Pulled Quote -
More from the fascist playbook...
Economist Paul Krugman noted: “We’ve all become desensitized, but it’s amazing how at this point the Trump campaign rests entirely on denouncing things that aren’t happening—[an] imaginary bad economy, imaginary runaway crime and now an imaginary failure of Biden and Harris to respond to natural disaster.”
Vote!
It is the “imaginary” aspect of the discourse initiated by one of the two parties in our system, that continues to be stunning. The reality of the recovery of our national economy concurrent with the reduction in inflation (also real) should be a cause for celebration by both political parties. The fact it is not is what is stunning to me.
And a sad commentary on our times. Lies are all they have, nothing more, just lies.
From nominally the party of "Honest Abe", though in reality the creation of the 1%.
Even I, who regularly read a variety of media, don't see anything remotely like comprehensive coverage of of the recovery of the economy/reduction in inflation, but I see plenty of "Trump said/did/charged/called Harris....etc." I am beyond fed up with the mainstream media.
Absolutely agree. Yesterday, the NYT endorsed Harris but all the headlined stories in their election section were about Trump.
Still can register more Democrats. https://www.fieldteam6.org/all-volunteer-ops/volunteer
Voter registration guidelines. https://www.vote.org/voter-registration-deadlines/
Thank you for these consistent reminders, Daniel.
Rupert has never told those for whom Fox is their trusted news source. And they are legion. That’s why the lies not only stick but are passed on as gospel. And of course, the real Gospels are skewed or outright changed to fit the narrative.
Any new developments about who inherits his empire? I haven't seen anything lately.
I guess the judge is still “mulling.” Or maybe counting the money.
What a paradox that people can't be held to be criminally accountable in this country for lies that hurt swaths of the population....
it is a massive paradox. Seems democracies can't protect themselves from "self-harm" if a significant segment wish things otherwise. In this case, power at the cost of everything else. I'm hoping that most of this torrent of untruths and vitriol has a limited, minority audience, and that Dems can manage to outsize that barrage when it comes to loyal and persuadable voters.
The Nazis had it down to a science, that’s why it’s where they learned.
The Nazi propaganda like the MAGA lies relied on a willing audience who can easily ignore facts and nurture comfortable lies. Trump adores the big lie threat of Hitler who was capable of any height of ridiculous falsehood to demonstrate his own might to cheering rallies. Very similar people.
Exactly, the James Murphy translation of Mein Kampf explains it well. No doubt chump has studied the “big lie” section.
The president sends people to war because of a lie about ‘yellow cakes’. And swathes of people died. Thanks George W.
The so-called "Yellowcake Letter" was a particularly clumsy fraud.
But he's no longer involved in "presidential politics." I wonder if he still speaks to Dick Cheney.
Check these out from a conference of leading psychiatrists, psychologists, and thought leaders last Friday afternoon in D.C. The clips are short.
https://bandyxlee.substack.com/p/video-clips-from-the-more-dangerous
Kudos to Dr Bandy X. Lee for carving out a singular, courageous, and lonely path these last five-to-seven years.
There’s a paywall but yeah, she rocks.
Thanks, emailed myself the link. No paywall issues.
I also had no paywall issues. Thanks to Ned for the link.
Thanks for the head's-up, Mike, and the work-around, Frank.
I miss Paul Krugman since I dropped my NYTimes subscription.
I wish he would move to substack and abandon the NYTimes or make a deal so he can publish on both. He is 70 years old and hopefully he could afford to abandon the NYTimes.
He has commented that he is on SS, so I'd be surprised if he isn't collecting the maximum of around $4700/mo.
I emailed him when I stopped my NYTimes subscription but he didn't respond.
I recently read “Stop Reading the News” by Ralf Dobelli. After, I canceled the NYT & CNN. HCR is the exception. Because her reporting connects the dots to reveal the big picture—instead of just adding more dots void of context. The result has been liberating of my time and the weight of news-related stress.
I keep my NYTimes on the basis of the total breadth and depth of their staffs.
I consult these spaces, Democracy Now and mostly written material for information.
But I am convinced the Times, WA POST and Guardian provide linchpins to the speeding pace of daily development. Few columnists or commenters have the acumen and capability of HCR to tie history to current events.
I have NYT at $2 per month to follow stories on Ukraine and Paul Krugman, also WaPo for $40 per year same reason. I dont read their American political stuff except Jenifer Rubin
Yes, I have reduced both subscriptions to digital too.
But my morning ritual is running through HCR, Robert Reich and then the Times and Post.
I may not agree with much editorial views and selections but organized information provides me with the news I find important and multiple viewpoints I can despise or absorb.
I draw very little information from the tube except Democracy Now that comforts me that people like Amy Goodman survive.
"...connects the dots to reveal the bit picture..." So, so accurate.
AKA "Thinking".
Cutting off televised McNews is vital - they hammer away relentlessly on the discussion points of the day and selectively show only what they choose for you to know about. That is why I switched off the teevee back during the Bush years.
What I've noticed too, is that their 'message' is fragile. That's a feature of propaganda: unless it's continuously reinforced sanity creeps back in. To prevent that, you can't leave any space for alternative or contrary ideas - your audience must only hear your story and no one else's at all times.
This explains why Fox is always playing at our military bases and in nearly all the restaurants & waiting rooms. That doesn't happen by mistake.
https://www.nytimes.com/2024/09/30/opinion/trump-inflation.html?unlocked_article_code=1.O04.Ebzb.A6A4v2-STB68&smid=url-share
Thank you, Marj!
But this lying is spreading like cancer all the way down to local elections.
Look at Derrick Anderson (R) in Virginia’s 7th district borrowing a friend’s wife and daughters for a campaign ad. That’s a form of lying. Interesting though Anderson he is running against Eugene Vindman (D) yep the brother of Alexander Vindman. If Trump wins, you can bet your last nickel Vindman’s name is on the list.
Here in PA import our liars from other States. This election season we have Dave McCormick who lives in CT telling us how horrible Bob Casey is and how he could do a better job. He can’t even pronounce our beloved beer correctly. It’s Yuengling Dave! 🤦♀️ Last time it was Dr Ozz. But they show up spread lies, create dissection with their lies then go back to their home states. Lies have consequences!
Republicans were set to vote to convict Nixon of "the coverup" when he resigned. How times have changed. Liars are nothing new, but media (and $$$) have rendered us far more gullible.
I sure hope that's enough. It would be if it were one person=one vote but that's not our world right now.
One more thing:
Happy 100th Birthday, President Jimmy Carter!
Do yourself a favor. Watch “Carterland”. You will be reminded of what a great president he was.
Have long respected former Pres Carter, voted for him twice. Truly admire what he and Rosalind did post-presidency to work/volunteer in service to others. Remarkable people & worthy of being put on that proverbial pedestal. Oh, and I love their life-long love story too. 💖
Arguably, President Carter is the greatest humanitarian of my lifetime.
Well, I won’t argue with that.
Of presidents anyway. He was not a practiced media entertainer, so he does not get much credit.
According to what my daughter told me recently, Pres. Carter is a distant relative to us. She has been researching our family history and informed me that it is true. I was a bit skeptical of her claim until i realized that my mother told me years ago that her maternal grandmother's maiden name was Hattie Carter. I was born and raised in here in Georgia so i guess it could be true. Pres. Carter is a great guy and a great humanitarian and the polar opposite of the horrible and brutally evil Donald TUMP.
Most remarkable persons in my lifetime. Both my heroes!
Better yet, visit the Carter Center to be duly amazed at his post-presidential accomplishments.
Did it sustain damage from Helene and is it a good time to go with the clean-up efforts in progress?
It’s located on a hill Gary, so no flooding, we got a foot of rain in 2 days, the heavy winds passed east of us closer to Augusta so very little wind damage here in the Atlanta area, we were lucky, it was a biblical level storm and we live in a forest 🌳.
Glad to hear you're safe and you had limited damage.
As a conservative by temperament, I voted for President Carter twice and would vote for him twice more.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kiGxLakwCMA
President Carter is the second best President of my life-time behind President Ford.
https://www.c-span.org/video/?c4679797/user-clip-gerald-ford-united-states
Love your love for Carter. I still don't see how Ford, who pardoned Richard Nixon, can be considered the best. I do not think he was the worst either, not even close, he was honest for the most part and did things that he truly believed in (as did Carter). But in my lifetime which starts with Eisenhower (not counting the one year with Truman in office right after I was born), I tend to consider Carter the best, Eisenhower the 2nd best, then Biden, Obama, Ford, Kennedy, LBJ, Nixon, Bush I, Bush II, Reagan and of course pulling up the outhouse car, Trump. Nixon ahead of the Bushes and Reagan? Absolutely. Nixon wasn't great, and he was forced out office, but his "crimes" were mostly stupidity, not intent to destroy the excellence of the country, whereas the Bushes and Reagan were malevolent to the country, and of course Trump is the devil incarnate.
Secretly bombing Cambodia and unleashing genocide, as well as his carpet bombing - which he upped way over LBJ - is hardly just a crime of stupidity. Nixon was truly malevolent, as was Bush II who lied us into war and destroyed a country of 25 million - even the loathsome and vile Trump hasn't managed that . . . yet. Then there is Biden's insouciance about genocide in Gaza in the face of a fascist government in Israel (I know, not how it's seen in the US, but there is a world elsewhere and that is how it in fact is). I have already cast my vote for Harris from abroad, but I have no sentimentality for most leaders. Yet in the main I agree with you - Carter was exemplary and the most moral, just, and intelligent of those who have held this office in my lifetime.
Though I felt President Obama appeased Putin in 2014, he is a man of impeccably fine character, joining Presidents Ford and Carter in that esteem.
Stagflation and the high interest rates doomed Jimmy, not to mention the evil Iranian empire holding US citizens hostage during the election cycle.
If the Democrats had supported him like the MAGA Republicans support CFDT then he may have won.
Hard to know.
Why I admire President Carter so deeply was that he may have forfeited the 1980 election to make sure those fifty-two Americans kidnapped in Teheran would come home alive. Per your thoughts on support, Senator Kennedy's and Representative Anderson's opportunism did not help.
It is shortsighted to forget that the "evil Iranian empire" was a revolution against a far worse (at the time) Shah of Iran supported by the US government. I have no good feelings for either the Shah or Komeini but we tend to forget how dictatorial the Shah was in Iran.
And that revolution was a direct consequence of the Shah's having been reinstalled by the US and Britain, who worked covertly--and successfully--to overthrow Iran's democratically elected Prime Minister, Mohammed Mosaddegh, in 1953. He wanted to nationalize Iran's oil industry, so the profits would remain in the country rather than being siphoned off by the British.
The US/UK-instigated coup was successful: Iran lost their Prime Minister and was returned to the puppet rule of the Shah, while we lost the one of the last best chances we had to cultivate friendly relations with both the Iranian people and a democratically elected Iranian government.
All because the West did not want to lose the profits from Iranian oil. I don't know if this is the absolutely stupidest thing we have ever done, but I find it painful to consider what we--and Iran--could have had had we not thrown it away for short-term monetary gain.
Wikipedia has a decent rundown on the coup and on Mosaddegh:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1953_Iranian_coup_d%27%C3%A9tat
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mohammad_Mosaddegh
"the evil Iranian empire holding US citizens hostage during the election cycle."
Reagan had a hand in that. We seem to decide many elections on some pretty superficial things, not connecting enough of the dots. It gets us into serious trouble and I think we can do a lot better, but first we have to recognize the problem. Reagan's narrative on government was a big lie. His claims about "Supply Side Economics" were another. It initiated a lot suffering that won't go away easily. We are still living with it, and climate abuse is only one of it's aspects, as is the extreme inimical division of our society. Republicans cynically rekindled the divisions of the Civil War, under a grotesque caricature of "Christianity" (the same brand that defended slavery).
interesting thoughts... thanks!
¡Hear, here!
My preference for President Ford is not shared by any other friend or acquaintance whom I know. Any ranking by me would be very subjective; as often motivated by my lack of knowledge as by some particular insight. 🤔
Two really hard Presidents to gauge are Presidents G.W. Bush and Obama. The former because some more perspective needs to be assumed to assess his performance; besides, I like him. The latter because a very obstructive Republican Congress denied President Obama a fair opportunity for greatness. 😳
Also, President Nixon may be under-esteemed via à vis candidate Trump. Notwithstanding my intense disliking of him as a teen, President Nixon, he did have enough respect for the rule of law to hand over the incriminating evidence. ⚖️
Thank you, Jon Rosen, as always for taking the time to write out a thoughtful response. 🤝
Carter was the first president I voted for. I did not vote for another winning president until Obama. (I had the luxury of voting independent in elections throughout the 80's; I refused to vote for Clinton, and voted independent then, although I did have the option.)
Thanks Heather. At a time of natural disasters it is comforting to know that real public servants are in the executive office.
It is surprising to me that very few journalists in the corporate media talk about the lack of ANY accomplishments during the Trump Presidency that helped anyone but small groups of very wealthy individuals and large corporations.
And they have the nerve to use the phrase, "Make America Great Again," when they had 4 years in which they only rolled back progress made during the Obama Presidency and even before that.
Why does Trump get a complete pass on all the things he fucked up?
Always has. Read “Lucky Loser.”
and it is real people actually carrying out disaster relief, and, I'm sure, regardless of personal political animus. Maybe small lights will dawn if they listen to some of those governors. I noticed Bill Lee was missing in the kudos to the Feds. Alas, God didn't listen to the hearts and prayers!
Bill Lee wanted a day of fasting and prayer on the 27th. Therefore he delayed asking for a disaster declaration. Then legislator Jeremy Faison deceitfully praised Biden for FINALLY responding. TN regularly turns down federal assistance (Medicaid expansion being the most egregious) while its citizens pay the price for their ideological actions. They discussed passing on millions in educational assistance because of “the strings attached,” although, when asked to describe those, they couldn’t. They just intuitively KNEW—you know, like Mike Johnson knows intuitively there is gobs of illegal voting though he can’t prove it.
But they "BELIEVE" with all their stony hearts. Then they turn around and lie. What a bizarre dichotomy. Believe your god will save you, and blame the Democrats when s/he doesn't.
Stony hearts….Good one!
I'm sure folks in TN affected by the storm decided that praying was superior to and more effective than requesting federal assistance. *eye roll*
I always thought that god helped those who helped themselves. So all the thoughts and prayers, which at times might be an appropriate expression of sympathy, really need to be backed by action. From the gop that expression is empty since they never do anything!
Esp 2nd amendment
Two issues:
1. How, how do we stop these lies? Is there any legal recourse? Slander? Libel? Bearing false witness? I am exhausted by the 9 years of the constant bold faced lies that are so easily debunked and to be laughable? But the press reports them and people believe the,, despite evidence to the contrary and plain old common sense.
2. How do we make people understand the connection to the prosperity in their home towns and the largess of the government? How can we get them to see the connection between voting for trump and losing out on those nice government projects that are bringing good paying jobs to their communities?How can we make them understand that the plans of Project 2025 are coming for them? That Project 2025 will literally ruin their lives. And their kids and grand kids will hate them for being complicit?
Both those things require the people voting for Trump to consume that news/information from a source they trust. It might have been network news in the past. It might have been from the pulpit at church. But those things won’t happen to reach Trump voters now. Getting them facts won’t happen. We have to turn out in numbers never seen before to simply vote to elect Democrats up and down the ballot.
This is correct. Given the stratification of our media, those on the far right aren't listening to even the MSM nowadays, they are plugged into Fox and worse. So the only way to win is to outnumber them EVERYWHERE, but particularly in the swing states.
About the size of it. Maybe an electoral disaster for Maga will break the fever. Wishful thinking ? We'll see.
Politicians seem to have the right to lie; they call it free speech. But when “news” channel staff repeat the lies, they should be sued—especially if they have been warned. Tie them up in lawsuits.
They don't "call it free speech" it IS free speech as defined by the founders/framers of our nation including Jefferson, Adams and Madison. News channels REPORT the comments, they don't state them as their beliefs, and their JOB is to report what is said. Any lawsuits against the "fourth estate" for these kinds of actions will be almost immediately dismissed and you may find yourself on the end of a very expensive legal bill assessed against you by the court for bringing a frivolous action.
Weeellll, Fox certainly got dinged for lying about Dominion!
Yeah, but first, that was a civil suit brought by Dominion, not a governmental attempt to charge Fox with some criminal act like sedition. Second, it was a corporate act in a media outlet. That is very different from individual quotes by politicians. If Trump made the same comments that Fox News did (and he has), he would never be held liable for any damages, because individual free speech rights are significantly more extensive than corporate.
I was responding to the notion that 'they should be sued', which is all the comment proposed.
I like "punched in the nose" better. Makes me feel better. Yeah.. I feel better already, having said that. But, right now, I've got 2 moorings I need to drop right out front, here on the Kennebec, before the river gets icey.
Dinged? Haahaa... for that Faux operation, it was merely the price of the ride. Chump-change in the billion-dollar world we're in today. When a normal house on the street owned by Jack Nicholson (reportedly) sells for $50,000,000 and the family of Saud takes a dump in a golden toilet..? $80,000,000 hardly rings a bell. Just the same, if you'll pardon me, "flush hard - it's a long way to mar-ah-laygo."
Dominion Voting Systems v. Fox News = $787 million settlement paid by Fox. Does require attorney fees, but I didn’t read if Dominion’s outside counsel was on retainer, had a contingent fee arrangement or some sort of hybrid fee.
You sure are hitting on the obvious paradox. My response which I believe to be simplistic is also what I believe to be true--the lack of critical thinking. It is truly difficult to digest that racism, misogyny, and ignorance blinds one to the reality that voting the wrong way will
strip them of all the benefits you've enumerated and plummet all of us into authoritarian hell...
Those clucks are "good' with the narrative that "it's all libtard garbage and is made up of lies". They're outwardly content to spew that in our face. They are convinced, and convince their kids too, that "libtards" (U & Me) are the CAUSE of high prices & ad infinitum. They like referring to "U & Me" as Libtards because it sounds so great and they don't need to explain what Democrat or Democracy is to their kids.
Speaking about what voter would still endorse Trump, when all can see that he acts like a buffoon with daily prejudicial disinformation.
On TV this morning, there was an interview of an author with a new book. Sarah Smarsh writes that she grew up in the midwest, and felt like she was treated as “invisible” by people around her. In her book, ‘Bone of the Bone’ she said her sensitivity about her sociopolitical class, and her hunger to be “seen”, makes people (like her) accept thugs (like) Trump, and will excuse their uncivilized behavior, just because of the attention she’s desperate for.
On the interview this morning, the TV host mentioned that she had read both of the authors books, but felt that this new book ‘Bone of the Bone’ seemed to express more rage.
Here is a review of her book (below).
REVIEW:
“In one searing—and stunning—collection, Bone of the Bone gives the often-ignored people in what some call ‘flyover country’ their due. [The] intersection of personal and political is where Sarah Smarsh’s powers of observation and will to incite change thrive. Bone of the Bone is a collection that offers a multitude of gifts on a variety of heavy-hitting levels and is a must-read for today’s politics."
—San Francisco Chronicle
I wasn’t really empathetic to the author about her plight, maybe I felt she was a bit exaggerated on feeling like a victim, or maybe I just don’t know how you would not have enough self esteem to walk away from someone like Trump, instead of putting up with misogyny just to have attention.
I grew up in flyover country surrounded by steel mills and oil refineries. My family was middle class and so were my friends’ and classmates’ families. I do NOT understand the source of this rage. I will admit, however, I might just be one of the lucky ones raised by parents who didn’t expect to be handed anything and worked hard. But we weren’t special. I just don’t get it.
I grew up in "fly over country," and I understand her plight.
Nebraska had two of the worst Republican Senators (Roman Hruska and Carl Curtis) who accomplished nothing (sound familiar) for over 25 years to help the people of NE. And now they have two more horrible Republican Senators who are about to be reelected.
There are small pockets of Democrats outside of Omaha and Lincoln whose votes are basically worthless.
On the other hand they have elected several prominent Senators that actually tried to do what was best for their constituents -- Bob Kerrey, Ben Nelson, Ed Zorinsky as well as Mike Johanns and Chuck Hagel and of course the greatest Senator of all time - George W. Norris who literally electrified much of rural America.
How illuminating, thank you. How victimized dies one have to feel to prefer a called-out demented soulless conman, rapist, cheat, and murderer to lead our country? Simple—non-critical thinking….
When you really think about it, many of these often-ignored people are generally ignorant. If one is an uneducated racist xenophobe who believes men should do whatever they want, they're not going to relate with Barak Obama or Kamala Harris. And then trump comes onto the scene. You can see why he's their guy....
Kathleen, "attention" is where it's at for 'those' people. It appears people are starving for it. Huh? Sure! Just look at all the tattoos out there. The hats on backwards. The pants dragging down below ones butt. Breast-flesh above and below the bra or tank-top. Eyelashes you can sweep a floor with. Service pets (hopefully the pets are paying attention to the owner) for insecurity issues. Whew. How about beer-guts and really noisey Harleys? Probably struck a nerve with that last one.
I don’t like the characterization of those who would vote Republican as ignorant or low class. I know many who consider themselves “conservative “ and who find themselves unable to vote for “liberals” and these people are neighbors, yours and mine.
Hope you're not referring to anything I might have posted. Trouble is, at this very moment the ship is listing very badly due to the narrative being fed to and consumed by the (R)ss-holes, be they neighbors or not. And if conservatives (R) types are hell-bent on voting straight republican, they'll reap what is being sown. All that aside, who do you think has more service animals?.. republicans or democrats? jusss askin. And, then explain why.
We can insist on an educational system that teaches people to think rationally. We can insist that history and civics are taught and that private and religious schools must meet the same rigorous standards of education we should demand of public education. It would also be helpful if family financial management and effective parenting were included in the curriculum.
Terry you summed it up. If we want to be a nation "indivisible" standardization is a must. Not to be construed as some evil 'indoctrination attempt'. And that "system" must include/address accountability for homeschooling. The incentive needs to be on a sound public school system.
We must respect people and teach people to be respectful. No more "trumping."
Vote Blue, urge your friends and anyone who will listen, too.
Does anyone remember the cries to keep government out of Medicare during the debates over the Affordable Care Act?
Great wording by Judge McBurny!
Speaking truth. “Women are not some collectively owned piece of community property the disposition of which is decided by majority vote.” And definitely not by minority vote either!
Finally, out there. Women are not community property
All discussions regarding woman versus fetus should begin with the assumption that both have equal rights. The rights of the fetus do not trump a woman's rights.
President Biden is proving his statesmanship. The amazing aspect of this President is his continuing inward growth, his search for meaning by leading in the spirit of public service. See quote below.
"When a reporter asked President Biden and Democratic North Carolina governor Roy Cooper to respond to Trump’s accusation that they are ignoring the disaster, Biden responded: 'He's lying. And the governor told him he was lying . . . I don't know why he does this . . . I don't care about what he says about me, but I care what he communicates to the people that are in need . . . I assume you heard the Republican Governor of Georgia talk about that he was on the phone with me more than once. So that's simply not true. And it's irresponsible.'"
Joe Biden continues to be impressive in performance in a very difficult environment. His only current sin in my view is his inability to have stopped the aging clock some years ago.
Joyce Vance, in a post just minutes prior to this HCR letter, talked extensively to the MAGA attack on voting rights and the case in the fifth circuit court of appeals, RNC vs, Wetzel. Her post is well worth reading, IMO, though recognizing the potential impact of the wrong ruling in this case sent a chill down my spine.
So no one needs to look for it, here’s a link to Joyce’s post:
https://joycevance.substack.com/p/the-dobbs-of-voting-rights
Read that article, too, Gary. Thank you for recommending it. Ms Vance makes a strong case for not upsetting the apple-cart. The insidious part if that the Trumpers will either win to suppress votes but if the Trumpers lose, they will use the late-arriving ballots as indicative of voter fraud.
And Louis DeJoy is still the postmaster general.
Which is why I refuse to mail my ballot. I drop it either at a secure drop box, or at the elections office.
If you mail your ballot, do it from a wealthy zipcode.
You'd be surprised at what a difference that makes.
Good points, M.L. and Ally.
I'm wondering about the impact of the hurricane on the elections in FL, GA, NC, SC, VA and TN.
All of these states have passed voter laws making it difficult for people to vote, especially GA. If someone's home is uninhabitable are they still eligible to vote? And what if their temporary residence is a motel in another voting precinct. Can they still vote in their old county? If not, and they vote where there damaged home is, is that voter fraud?
I only hope this administration has some really astute heads convening as we read here. What we have is an opportunity to EXCELL. Quite simply, "they" better not fumble this. I believe this is an unprecedented disaster affecting almost 1/5 of our nation. So many people have lost every-freaking-thing they owned, including the earth they built on. They have no places of employment, no money, no cars, no roads in or out, nothing but each other.., and our government. But, wait.. aren't there 350million of us? Go ahead, ask me for some help: I'm in.
Really strong questions there, Gary; many thanks.
And what if their entire town was affected? Votes have to be counted somewhere and poll workers need to not only be available but have a facility in which to work. A catastrophe of this magnitude affects the entire system. I have lots of questions but absolutely no answers.
I see another NYT editorial board denouncing Trump and putting forth Kamala as the only worthy candidate, from the news outlet that "most" people here love to hate.
No, it’s a too little and too late tepid and wishy washy sort of endorsement. Lame and useless.
Hmm. Not exactly a full-throated endorsement by the NYT, as noted by some of the top Reader-Picks commenters.
Sadly, many of the commentaries I read today are that few people who count (particularly the marginal swing state voters) are connected to this at all. They are still giving Trump the benefit of the doubt and it poses great risk for the election. I don't know if there is a good solution. The pandemic and Trump's immediately previous 12-24 months in office provided good direct information to marginal swing voters in the 2020 election, and Biden was a favorable "good old dad" type in that election. This year, Trump has been out of office for 4 years and most people have amazingly NOT paid attention much to him so their negative thoughts when they went to the polls in 2020 have mostly been swept over. What's funny to me is that if he presented a much MORE "kindly" face, he might still sweep in, but he is done in often by his own inability to appear diplomatic. So his tweets may still kill him in this election, but it is going to be VERY VERY VERY close.
Sobering and persuasive there, Jon. WRITTEN ELSEWHERE -- the problem being that the targeted voters do not trust national experts.
Check these out from a conference of leading psychiatrists, psychologists, and thought leaders last Friday afternoon in D.C. The clips are short.
https://bandyxlee.substack.com/p/video-clips-from-the-more-dangerous
Kudos to Dr Bandy X. Lee for carving out a singular, courageous, and lonely path these last five-to-seven years.
Wheww...! Jon, looking at photo-ops of trump the past week and right now, his make-up artists are doing miracles with his appearance. Surely you can see it. Surely we all see it and the effect is subtle...but, it's THERE! Look at his complexion, his hairstyling. But, even more, observe the videos and photos appearing thanks to careful selection by his managers. I don't think i'm imagining this, the POS really look presidential. Just like Reagon did. And, Com-la..., hmmmm, not so much. THE administration needs to pay attention and 'stage' VP Harris as we want to view "a Commander In Chief" . Appearance is huge. Hillary could have done even better than she did, had some appearances gone better.
An article currently in the NYT that deals with Trump’s lies about emergency response (article should be unlocked for everyone):
You can read it for free without a subscription.
https://www.nytimes.com/2024/09/30/us/politics/trump-georgia-hurricane-helene.html?unlocked_article_code=1.O04.CNzR.L4iBsS9WEqlL&smid=nytcore-ios-share&referringSource=articleShare&sgrp=c-cb
The problem is, the people who need this info that were affected by the hurricane are without power or news. Unfortunately, word of mouth repeating Trump's garbage will be what is heard and believe d.
Thank you, Gary. Pretty awful man is candidate Trump. Would like to see what he would do if his precious Mar a Lago were wiped out.
He wouldn't give a proverbial S--t. It's plugged up anyway. He'll just vacate to some island. Hey!! "Rikers" comes to mind.
Well Gary, we here, know he's a total POS (ie, piece of s--t). His fans could care less what we think. To them we're just libtards - stupid as dirt. To them, he has done "so many great things".... (huh? name a couple?). So any negative press is just Democrat crap and they let it in one ear and out the other... straight thru. Yup. Whoosh. OKay.. so why do "they" feel that way? Welp.. because you and I both know very well that our government has indeed dropped-the-ball.., and "lied about it", at other times of crisis, re: "Good job Brownie - Dubya". And, that's good enough for "them" and the MAGA narrative they're being fed. Just the same.., "we" ned to help every single one of those folks who have lost everything... E V E R Y T H I N G, together with their neighbors who are feeling the impact of this current unprecedented disaster. THIS one. Joe, do your best, you're in the drivers seat. Don't refer to your "flyovers" as a gottdamned "tour" ..pulllease!
"Biden said this morning he will not tour the damaged areas until his presence will not disrupt emergency response operations."
So what did CFDT do yesterday, but travel to Valdosta, GA doing just that--sans paper towels I hope?
Healthy 2 party debate is a cornerstone of our system. But these constant lies and the grandstanding of Trump and his ilk are just so totally counterproductive and destructive. His very being as the "character" he is, is based on the ever expanding version of this mythological world of his. Where democrats are evil all of the time...and he is the hero...all of the time...or the victim, when it does not go well for him. I'm so tired of being portrayed as part of an evil, socialist, fascist, gay-trans deep state conspiracy...who just want to hurt people in red MAGA hats....who just had their home & car float down river. Or brown & black immigrants are eating the pets of the "civilized" white MAGA people. Or that I want to kill babies. This is so beyond anything we have dealt with in our life time. Yes there have been KKK & Nazi rallies for a long time...but this is insane....and Fox, Rush, podcasts, FB & YT have made it all possible like this. 50 years ago a snake oil salesman in a traveling tent show could only touch so many people. Now he's everywhere...and gets amplified by our media. I just hope this VP debate tonight shines a light on how obscene this has become.
Thank you, Heather.
I’ve a friend who’s a kind and decent man. He’s voting for Trump - who has literally the opposite character to that of my friend. This amazes and saddens me - and there’s nothing I can do about it.
Get him drunk the night before elections and convince him to come out on November 6 to vote.
lol, whatever works!
Jean-Pierre- I’m truly curious what reasons your friend has given for voting for Trump?
They can't give you specifics, they just believe his lies
I cannot comprehend anyone kind and decent voting for someone who is the opposite of kind and decent. Either they don't know who they are voting for or are in it for the money and don't want others less fortunate to benefit.
It's beyond belief. I'm disappointed in so many people that just can't see where where are country can end up if trump is elected.
That's democracy for you. Ears are filtered. Politics is tribal.
How refreshing! A Republican judge who does not see women as community property. The lies the MAGAs create only continue growing, however.
The lying MAGA crowd has no shame. Their only goal is to cling to power by ignoring the truth.
Shame on them! Biden unchanged. Love it!
“Ignoring” is a generous critique Herb. It is more like they are burning down the house and putting up one of those plasterboard facades of their own ghoulish design and praying no one will look behind to see the burned out rubble behind. Happy early Halloween, all trick no treat.
The fear that they could be governing us is real.
There is more to be noted about the Georgia abortion case. The (white male) Georgia Fulton county superior judge, Robert McBurney made what is one of the most powerful arguments about the absolute immorality of pre-viability abortion bans I have yet heard: “For these women, the liberty of privacy means that they alone should choose whether they serve as human incubators for the five months leading up to viability,” McBurney wrote. “It is not for a legislator, a judge, or a commander from The Handmaid’s Tale to tell these women what to do with their bodies during this period when the fetus cannot survive outside the womb any more so than society could – or should – force them to serve as a human tissue bank or to give up a kidney for the benefit of another.”
In a footnote, McBurney added: “There is an uncomfortable and usually unspoken subtext of involuntary servitude swirling about this debate, symbolically illustrated by the composition of the legal teams in this case. It is generally men who promote and defend laws like the Life Act, the effect of which is to require only women – and, given the socio-economic and demographic evidence presented at trial, primarily poor women, which means in Georgia primarily black and brown women – to engage in compulsory labor, ie, the carrying of a pregnancy to term at the government’s behest.” https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2024/sep/30/georgia-abortion-ban-overturned
And of course, this does not even include the immorality of denying woman potentially life saving reproductive healthcare.
Thanks, Tom. I appreciate the link.
Like horrific hurricane, Trump and Vance are both going on torrents of raging lies lately.
MAGA and its tens of millions roar for more lies. They are trying to disenfranchise voters from the ballot – black, brown, and others of color.
They’ve all gone to the schools that taught none to see anybody as individuals, only to group themselves and abstract “others.”
Trump and Vance should lose in five weeks, but they’ll go on damning, demeaning American voting. Their cultists will continue their anger towards the U.S.'s college educated and bi-coastal who also attended schools that gave no one any humanities to see anyone on the bottom of the income equality gap, as Sarah Smarsh describes in her new book of essays, “Bone of the Bone.”
The rage she, a white (educated) woman from rural Kansas, feels is what happens when schools dump humanities. Then, most lacking models for seeing “others,” doors open for the demagoguery now largely ruling.
Good lord Phil, could you write even ONE comment without finding a way to slot the word "humanities" into it? We get it, you love the humanities (I do too) and you hate what the school system has done to it, but frankly they care more about STEM these days than Shakespeare and Chaucer.
Why is this even a dichotomy? STEM and the humanities should go hand in hand. Otherwise you get Elon Musk.
How about, then, Jon, schools teach not so much humanities, as others in the room?
That is, have everyone introduce themselves by written essays, citing specifics as to who they are by the styles of food-clothing-shelter they inhabit. Shelter could include building insides (interior design), as well as landscapes outside, and modes of travel in those landscapes.
Everyone read everyone's, then discuss. Then rewrite, now quoting others in the room with tastes or circumstances similar to one's own. Name the others with generosity towards their specificity.
This gambit may go on, in levels of citing others (naming persons for their similar issues across the campus, or naming instructors for theirs -- from books they have written or lectures they have given.
It may go on, as in Jews referring to Palestinians as individuals. Japanese citing Koreans or Chinese as individuals. Inner city black citing white youth on the prairie.
After students get very good at seeing others, crediting them generously, gambit may open up to humanities "others" love.
I'll try to remember your name, Jon Rosen.
A signal of insincerity.
Commenting has now tapered off for what Heather has most recently prompted, but I see you've remained silent on mine to you re your annoyance at today's death of the personal in contemporary education -- in the U.S. as well as more onerously around the world.
Sarah Smarsh had people like you in mind when she wrote the book of essays she most recently published, and to which I referred. Too many belittle humanities as mere, quaint consumerism choice -- and like you can cite, will never cite anything more apt "than Shakespeare and Chaucer."
Regarding Trump's attacks on the recovery effort: Every accusation is a confession of his own bad behavior. DeSantis is a little different. Everything he hides, everything he prohibits discussion of is a confession that open discussion erodes his positions. The Republicans have been successful in finding truly terrible people to represent them.
Yes, but their success shows that it is a strategy that can work. Why? Because MOST people out there are NOT like us (readers of HCR's columns). They don't even care about most of this. 2020 happened in the middle of the pandemic. People were scared and Trump isn't the most likely source of confidence. But now, 4 years later, it is in many peoples' rear-view mirror. They want to forget it even happened (even though it is STILL raging through our population in 6 month cycles and still killing people although nowhere near as many as it did in 2020. The point is that glossing over this is easy and the people who will make the vital decisions in 2024 are just as likely to see Tump as a great hero as a cruel joke.
Not sure how it will all end up, but I just keep working at it and keeping my fingers crossed.
You have described the problem for me in a single, simple, sentence:
“……. the people who will make the vital decisions in 2024 are just as likely to see Tump as a great hero as a cruel joke.”
It scares me that the great American governance experiment comes down to this.
Me too...
In regards to Florida, remember the "private" aid fund run by DeSantis' wife from the previous hurricane? Are they using that money now since it was hardly touched before? Did anyone here see the 60 minutes story on FL insurance from Hurricane Ian? If not, you should because it is a perfect example of what the Heritage guys have planned for America.
wowser! wonder if that public report will shake things up, given also it's had lawmakers' attention? I suspect behind this is an almost catastrophic claims cost impact on insurers who cover disaster costs in Florida, and likely, elsewhere. Has there been some pullout by insurers in Florida already?
As someone who is reading Project 2025 in a book club, I know that the Republican plan is to have FEMA only fund 25 percent of costs of Natural disasters, and that is based on a ceiling of how much money they will give, which means poorer places will be getting less money. They also want to end government flood insurance. The irony is that while they are anti any sort of acknowledgement of climate change, if they want the government to not have to spend so much money on disasters, climate change needs to be acknowledged. FEMA monies could be tied to rebuilding not in flood plains or hurricane lanes, or fire zones, and the government could provide design plans for rebuilding carbon free, energy saving homes. Andra Watkins, whose Substack often analyzes the Christian Nationalist impacts of P2025, also analyzes financial costs. She posted a piece analyzing how these costs would effect people if there were no FEMA because she has land in North Carolina. https://substack.com/@andrawatkins/p-149572059
I would point out that this is not an exhaustive list of the costs, because with other P2025 plans, like getting rid of the Dept of Education, and Health and Human Services, hospitals and schools will have a hard time rebuilding. Also, the plan to get rid of millions of immigrants undocumented and other, means that there will be a shortage of labor for rebuilding. The economic base will be weaker because undocumented immigrants work and have put multiple billions into the economy, and their loss is not just going to be a humanitarian and perhaps genocidal disaster, but will lead to a loss of hundreds of billions of tax monies in the economy. Also, getting rid of them will be expensive and that will take a lot of taxpayer dollars, leaving fewer for other things. In fact, the immigration plans of Trump are so drastic, and like Reagan will be swift horrid actions, that will be enormously expensive, violate human and legal rights, and will be hard to undo once done. That is the plan to swiftly do things that are hard to undo. So, the more I read P2025, the more I recognize its ability to turn the US into a third world country. We need to be reclaiming the young men that are going for Trump as a cool guy who gets things done.
You must have a very intelligent book club! Are they all liberals? Or do you get into some really difficult discussions?
Barbara, we are all members of Democrats Abroad. Earlier this evening we were discussing the Department of Defense chapter of Project 2025. So, they are all going to be voting for Harris-Walz and from my experience we seem to have shared values politically because of this. One is a diplomat and so is her husband, another is doing his PhD in Foreign policy and has interned in branches of the military. Another is involved in technology work and says that the Biden administration is doing a really good job of keeping the necessary parts to develop the best weaponry from China and Russia, and this is an area he knows about. The people are interesting, and we each bring our own thing to the group. We do not always agree on details, but that is because we have different experiences, but everyone listens when someone has some expertise that provides insight into what we are discussing. I think we all look forward to these discussions, and we are learning a lot about the way the government works.