Whether or not they have sufficient evidence to do so now, the real question in my mind is do they have sufficient backbone to do so. I’ve not seen any x-rays, but I have my doubts.
Whether or not they have sufficient evidence to do so now, the real question in my mind is do they have sufficient backbone to do so. I’ve not seen any x-rays, but I have my doubts.
I’ve always felt the common characteristic of many of the insurrectionists is different than what you cite. I think what binds so many to the former is something I see often in children that typically are aggressive when they “lose”. When living in a social order where anything from playing a board game fairly to making a decision to run for public office or agreeing as a citizen to participate in fair and free elections is totally dependent on the assumed characteristic that must prevail in the players….that of being able to win and being able to lose. Fairness is based on rules to follow and accepting the outcome of those rules. I believe it is the outstanding failing of the former president and cause of all that followed his loss and some of the rhetoric laid before the election. “If I lose, it is because the other side cheated.”
Worse than winning is not being able to lose. It cancels fairness.
Every person present on January 6th, even if there as a voyeur, had some part of their thinking wired to believe that the former president did not lose.
That is the danger to our democracy. I’ve examined that characteristic in myself and studied where it is that we learn to be OK with losing, because it’s not often a pleasant feeling. I’ve worked with children in public education for decades and will testify, based on my experience, that teaching children this concept was much “easier” in earlier decades than in the decades of the new century. And that coping mechanisms instilled in children through play are much more likely to reflect that “losing is not an option”.
Tricky. And as it turns out, quite dangerous. It’s not child’s play.
My grandson made a comment to me the other day about not asking for something because he might seem selfish. He wanted to be driven to school early to hang out with his friends before class. As an aside, thank goodness he just got his drivers license and will be able to drive himself.
I told him he should always ask for something he wants or try for something he wants because otherwise the answer is definitely a No. if he’s already willing to accept that No answer then it’s not going to hurt to go for the Yes.
This has been my lifelong philosophy about everything. The same goes for winning and losing. You don’t always win but if you don’t try you will never win. I think it’s wrong to teach our children that winning is more important than fair play and accepting outcomes.
I was responding to the following observation of Dr. Richardson's: "The report concludes that the efforts to subvert the DOJ were part of Trump’s attempt “to retain the presidency by any means necessary,”"
Subverting the DOJ to attempt to overthrow the legitimately elected President is treason. There are criminal penalties noted for treason in the United States that start with arrest.
One of the other commenters noted that concern or fear may be holding the current administration back from arresting Trump for treason, which, would be appropriate at this point.
My comment is not meant as self indulgent or venting. My observation is to point out that Trump's army was ineffective and nothing to be afraid of. In fact, many of those who arrived Jan 6 were out of shape, overweight, recipients of SSD and welfare, hence, having the time to go on Trump's excursion. Anyone with a job, or a business, did not have three days to waste attempting to overthrow the government.
If Biden is holding back out of fear of consequences from Trump supporters, and I do not know if the other commenter is right, then, there is no need to be fearful of arresting a treasonous former President.
There is reason to be fearful if Trump is not arrested.
The article indicates that whites in counties with declining whit population were part of Trump’s ragtag assault on the Capitol. This info supports my assessment not refutes it. Maybe I misread?
Kim, There is nothing in the article for which you provided a link and the Washington Post article, which it referred to, that deals with or refutes Mike's descriptions of the insurrectionists. While Mike's generalizations may have been stereotyping, the link you provided concerns the areas in which many of the insurgents live and reasons for their attraction to Trump.
Kim, Thank you for posting the report, which you had indented. The Chicago Project on Security and Threats assessed '... 193 individuals arrested by FBI, Capitol Hill Police, and DC Police for entering the US Capitol or breaking into the Capitol grounds on January 6, 2021 and compared them to '...108 right-wing extremists arrested by FBI for deadly violence, 2015-2020 and other data on past right-wing extremists.' The differences between the two groups were very noteworthy. I am sorry that CPOST did not or could not indicate the percentage of those assessed with the total of arrests of people who also may have qualified to join the assessed group. Nevertheless, I second your recommendation that subscribers read the report. The characteristics of insurrectionists assessed may surprise readers.
Thanks for that link; apropos of nothing perhaps, former neighbors here in Maricopa county, white and retired, were at the rally but not the insurrection part….probably lots more like them there. Lots of AZ folks were “bad actors “ as well
"... many of those who arrived Jan 6 were out of shape, overweight, recipients of SSD and welfare, hence, having the time to go on Trump's excursion. Anyone with a job, or a business, did not have three days to waste ..."
How perfectly arrogant and ignorant of you, Mike S.
lin, If you are in the mind of a reviewer, you will encounter a wide variety of personalities and persuasions here. There is much material from which to sort out givers and takers; the nasty and the nice, if you like. Most subscribers of LFAA (Letter from an American) joined to learn from Heather's Letter; report our responses to it; convey information concerning what's happening from other sources; share our personal experiences and learn from one another. It may take some time for you to become acquainted with the forum and decide how to pursue it and for how long. I think it is an extraordinary opportunity to read what Heather lays out concerning America's condition on a day to day basis and communicate with Americans around the country and in other places. At this time, in particular, it is a treasured base for learning, exchange and comradery. Welcome, lin.
lin, I'm curious, what did you imagine this comment section would be like? Each subscriber brings their own interpretation of Heather's Letters along with their own world view to the discussion. Most folks here started reading (and watching) Heather on Facebook. When she opened the Substack Letters subscription many of us migrated here to read and interact in a less noise filled atmosphere. If you stick around you'll find that Heather sometimes throws out a question for us to think about, debate and respond to. You'll also find that a good number of subscribers are able to offer amplified insight on certain issues based on their professions which include foreign service, academia, economics, finance, education, the armed forces, law enforcement, law, medicine and more. I think you'll find it's a pretty decent bunch of people.
What do you consider self-indulgent venting? I haven’t heard anyone say “woe is me” or claim they are a victim. Maybe I don’t understand your statement.
I was surprised at a comment which dealt more in superficial characterizations of certain Trump supporters and Republicans than in substantial critique of their actions.
Lin. In the context of military style assault being overweight, out of physical condition, and underemployed are not superficial traits. They are relevant in evaluating the capability of Trump supported should the current Justice department arrest him. In the context of the thread content nobody need feel great trepidation.
Mike, Your comment has been raked over the coals. Perhaps, there was a bit of merit in believing that your characterization misrepresented the insurrectionists on 1/6. Kim provided a link to an article with a different assessment. You reported what you saw, not a careful study of the demographics. If you haven't read the article that was linked, perhaps, that would be worthwhile. I'm guessing that the accusation of 'stereotyping' on your part may have been behind the criticism. Your comments are usually well considered. I don't know what the truth is concerning this one, but you provided a bone that must be all chewed up by now. Salud, my friend.
Fern, no problem. My comment was in the context of another post where the concern was raised the Biden admin may have no backbone or be afraid to arrest Trump.
Again, if what we all saw at the Capitol is what Trump can field, no worries.
Even Trump himself, after the march began, referred to the people he had just addressed as "Low class".
Whether or not they have sufficient evidence to do so now, the real question in my mind is do they have sufficient backbone to do so. I’ve not seen any x-rays, but I have my doubts.
Exactly, Fran. Dem's need to get mean and nasty.
No guts, no glory. A bunch of wimps.
Sad, but certainly appears to be the case.
Not a comment dripping with wholeness and well-being there, Charlie Grantham.
If the Pubs scared anyone with that overweight bunch of welfare and SSD recipients that Trump called up on Jan 6 I would be very surprised.
Good morning, Mike. Bear with me on a viewpoint.
I’ve always felt the common characteristic of many of the insurrectionists is different than what you cite. I think what binds so many to the former is something I see often in children that typically are aggressive when they “lose”. When living in a social order where anything from playing a board game fairly to making a decision to run for public office or agreeing as a citizen to participate in fair and free elections is totally dependent on the assumed characteristic that must prevail in the players….that of being able to win and being able to lose. Fairness is based on rules to follow and accepting the outcome of those rules. I believe it is the outstanding failing of the former president and cause of all that followed his loss and some of the rhetoric laid before the election. “If I lose, it is because the other side cheated.”
Worse than winning is not being able to lose. It cancels fairness.
Every person present on January 6th, even if there as a voyeur, had some part of their thinking wired to believe that the former president did not lose.
That is the danger to our democracy. I’ve examined that characteristic in myself and studied where it is that we learn to be OK with losing, because it’s not often a pleasant feeling. I’ve worked with children in public education for decades and will testify, based on my experience, that teaching children this concept was much “easier” in earlier decades than in the decades of the new century. And that coping mechanisms instilled in children through play are much more likely to reflect that “losing is not an option”.
Tricky. And as it turns out, quite dangerous. It’s not child’s play.
My grandson made a comment to me the other day about not asking for something because he might seem selfish. He wanted to be driven to school early to hang out with his friends before class. As an aside, thank goodness he just got his drivers license and will be able to drive himself.
I told him he should always ask for something he wants or try for something he wants because otherwise the answer is definitely a No. if he’s already willing to accept that No answer then it’s not going to hurt to go for the Yes.
This has been my lifelong philosophy about everything. The same goes for winning and losing. You don’t always win but if you don’t try you will never win. I think it’s wrong to teach our children that winning is more important than fair play and accepting outcomes.
I am new to this comments section, but I am very surprised to see self indulgent venting in response to Cox Richardson's disciplined analysis.
Lin,
I was responding to the following observation of Dr. Richardson's: "The report concludes that the efforts to subvert the DOJ were part of Trump’s attempt “to retain the presidency by any means necessary,”"
Subverting the DOJ to attempt to overthrow the legitimately elected President is treason. There are criminal penalties noted for treason in the United States that start with arrest.
One of the other commenters noted that concern or fear may be holding the current administration back from arresting Trump for treason, which, would be appropriate at this point.
My comment is not meant as self indulgent or venting. My observation is to point out that Trump's army was ineffective and nothing to be afraid of. In fact, many of those who arrived Jan 6 were out of shape, overweight, recipients of SSD and welfare, hence, having the time to go on Trump's excursion. Anyone with a job, or a business, did not have three days to waste attempting to overthrow the government.
If Biden is holding back out of fear of consequences from Trump supporters, and I do not know if the other commenter is right, then, there is no need to be fearful of arresting a treasonous former President.
There is reason to be fearful if Trump is not arrested.
Actually, that assessment of the Jan 6 insurrectionists is incorrect.
https://www.minnpost.com/eric-black-ink/2021/04/a-look-at-demographics-of-the-jan-6-insurrectionists/
The article indicates that whites in counties with declining whit population were part of Trump’s ragtag assault on the Capitol. This info supports my assessment not refutes it. Maybe I misread?
Mike, Kim's second link is the one with report of the assessed insurrectionists. The results will surprise you, nd I suggest that you read it.
Exactly, Kim WA. Thank you.
Kim, There is nothing in the article for which you provided a link and the Washington Post article, which it referred to, that deals with or refutes Mike's descriptions of the insurrectionists. While Mike's generalizations may have been stereotyping, the link you provided concerns the areas in which many of the insurgents live and reasons for their attraction to Trump.
Fern, sorry about that. try this one:
https://d3qi0qp55mx5f5.cloudfront.net/cpost/i/docs/americas_insurrectionists_online_2021_01_29.pdf?mtime=1611966204
There are several publications regarding demographics of those folks.
Kim, Thank you for posting the report, which you had indented. The Chicago Project on Security and Threats assessed '... 193 individuals arrested by FBI, Capitol Hill Police, and DC Police for entering the US Capitol or breaking into the Capitol grounds on January 6, 2021 and compared them to '...108 right-wing extremists arrested by FBI for deadly violence, 2015-2020 and other data on past right-wing extremists.' The differences between the two groups were very noteworthy. I am sorry that CPOST did not or could not indicate the percentage of those assessed with the total of arrests of people who also may have qualified to join the assessed group. Nevertheless, I second your recommendation that subscribers read the report. The characteristics of insurrectionists assessed may surprise readers.
Thanks for that link; apropos of nothing perhaps, former neighbors here in Maricopa county, white and retired, were at the rally but not the insurrection part….probably lots more like them there. Lots of AZ folks were “bad actors “ as well
"... many of those who arrived Jan 6 were out of shape, overweight, recipients of SSD and welfare, hence, having the time to go on Trump's excursion. Anyone with a job, or a business, did not have three days to waste ..."
How perfectly arrogant and ignorant of you, Mike S.
Perhaps.
lin, If you are in the mind of a reviewer, you will encounter a wide variety of personalities and persuasions here. There is much material from which to sort out givers and takers; the nasty and the nice, if you like. Most subscribers of LFAA (Letter from an American) joined to learn from Heather's Letter; report our responses to it; convey information concerning what's happening from other sources; share our personal experiences and learn from one another. It may take some time for you to become acquainted with the forum and decide how to pursue it and for how long. I think it is an extraordinary opportunity to read what Heather lays out concerning America's condition on a day to day basis and communicate with Americans around the country and in other places. At this time, in particular, it is a treasured base for learning, exchange and comradery. Welcome, lin.
lin, I'm curious, what did you imagine this comment section would be like? Each subscriber brings their own interpretation of Heather's Letters along with their own world view to the discussion. Most folks here started reading (and watching) Heather on Facebook. When she opened the Substack Letters subscription many of us migrated here to read and interact in a less noise filled atmosphere. If you stick around you'll find that Heather sometimes throws out a question for us to think about, debate and respond to. You'll also find that a good number of subscribers are able to offer amplified insight on certain issues based on their professions which include foreign service, academia, economics, finance, education, the armed forces, law enforcement, law, medicine and more. I think you'll find it's a pretty decent bunch of people.
What do you consider self-indulgent venting? I haven’t heard anyone say “woe is me” or claim they are a victim. Maybe I don’t understand your statement.
Thank You All for your welcome.
I was surprised at a comment which dealt more in superficial characterizations of certain Trump supporters and Republicans than in substantial critique of their actions.
Lin. In the context of military style assault being overweight, out of physical condition, and underemployed are not superficial traits. They are relevant in evaluating the capability of Trump supported should the current Justice department arrest him. In the context of the thread content nobody need feel great trepidation.
Mike, Your comment has been raked over the coals. Perhaps, there was a bit of merit in believing that your characterization misrepresented the insurrectionists on 1/6. Kim provided a link to an article with a different assessment. You reported what you saw, not a careful study of the demographics. If you haven't read the article that was linked, perhaps, that would be worthwhile. I'm guessing that the accusation of 'stereotyping' on your part may have been behind the criticism. Your comments are usually well considered. I don't know what the truth is concerning this one, but you provided a bone that must be all chewed up by now. Salud, my friend.
Fern, no problem. My comment was in the context of another post where the concern was raised the Biden admin may have no backbone or be afraid to arrest Trump.
Again, if what we all saw at the Capitol is what Trump can field, no worries.
Even Trump himself, after the march began, referred to the people he had just addressed as "Low class".
Sorry, Mike, I saw that you did read the article.
Indeed, lin, such as remarks abt SSD and welfare.
Made me wonder, HUH?!!
Many at the assault were underemployed with free time. A pre-requisite to three days in DC.
Wrong. For more information read Kim's second link. The first was not of the report, nor what she intended to link.
Do you have a reference for that assertion?
https://d3qi0qp55mx5f5.cloudfront.net/cpost/i/docs/americas_insurrectionists_online_2021_01_29.pdf?mtime=1611966204
9% were unemployed according to this research.
Seriously, Mike S?
SL. I am always serious.