What is the war we are in now? Trump and his supporters seem the Southern elite people. They are trying to deport immigrants who are supporting farming and construction. The northern states have their leader for only two more months and surrender to Trump and his force. Please explain what is the war we are fighting now.
We have a huge segment of our country that has never come to terms with the outcome of that Civil War and continues the grievance and resentment down through generations. Together with the ever presence of powerful oligarch wannabes, we are surely testing again whether this nation will survive in the vision of Lincoln.
Regarding your comment: When I lived in Birmingham AL back in the late 70s, I was shocked to discover that the Civil War was not over, there was a continued sense of grievance resentment, clearly handed down through generations. Growing up in the North, the outcome of the Civil War never crossed my mind.
Never heard it called that, and I have lived in the South for 70+ years. I have heard WWI referred to that way.
I am aware that many Southerners-even young ones-refer to the Civil War as The War Between the States, thus refusing to acknowledge a treasonous rebellion. They also vociferously refuse to acknowledge that slavery was the cause. It’s a clan of deliberate ignorance.
"has never come to terms with the outcome of that Civil War"
Exactly!! And has never come to terms with the dismantling of Jim Crow. The Groper-in-Chief has given a face and a voice to the resulting "grievance and resentment".
Please reference Dr. Richardson’s own book, “How the South won the Civil War,” a must-read. And so it goes, especially the racism and the power of money.
It’s an education issue. We forgot to make sure we turned our American citizens into educated and informed adults. Somewhere along the way we confused a consumer-based economy with virtue.
We need a virtue-based economy.
Where was the zero tolerance policy re. immigrants from Jesus? There wasn’t one.
The war we are fighting is based in a lot of history, not all of it American. Because every country at some point has had to deal with the want-to-be dictators, the kings, the selfish who want power, wealth and to have things their way only, who think of themselves as special and have no humility or understanding of how a successful society works. Our own young democracy deals with this periodically. All of the southern influence is important to understand because of its roots in people owning other people and how the owners are immoral about that fact. Republican Party has very much become that owner type and wants to run and ruin the whole country, and not just the ‘north’, for their own ends. It is very stupid to think and believe this way because people in general have always done better when they understand they are part of society and not separate from it, no matter what group they might be in.
Just about every war starts with these elements of inner behavior - people like this next president, who basically have never grown up and taken real responsibility as citizens. They become good at fooling the parts of the population that don't pay any attention to the importance of their own power as voters. They go to war for power, against their opponents who want peace and for things to run fairly and equitably.
Hiro, I hope this helps a little bit. Our job now as citizens is to grow and support the institutions that are healthy for the whole population, like libraries, schools, medicine, school boards, police, city county state legal bodies, who are at the roots of a democratic society that is trying to work for its own healthy good.
And the current about to be leaders have been elected by LYING to the voters. Just because they say something a 1000 times doesn't make it true but that's the way they stole this election. 2020 wasn't a stolen election but 2024 was.
I will bet that when all the investigations of the vast voter suppression are complete, that this election could very well have been stolen. I can't say that at this time with any degree of certainty. The Republican's long-game has proven to be effective. They got Roe overturned. And they have been effective in voter suppression.
Republicans made a big deal about voter suppression these past few years after the Supreme Court pillaged the Voting Right Act. A lot of people who didn't vote wanted to but were thwarted by the additional burdens to voting as well as the virulent hatred aimed at them.
We have a huge portion of the populace that has taken democracy for granted and has no appreciation of the blood and treasure spent defending it. The leaders, here to fore, were willing to sacrifice millions of lives and billions of dollars so we could vote and have a country by and for the people. Today, we have a population so ignorant as to willingly vote for a wannabe dictator.
It's not just the vulgar, racist orange felon. It's not just the schools that produced the tens of millions who willingly put lies over truth, who ignored the public good for buffoon sensationalism and "bing-bing-boing-bong" reality show nonsense.
More, it's the many, many dehumanized M.B.A.s, bankers, humanly empty lawyers, lobbyists, and corporate officials who offshored the tens of millions of American working-class jobs and left those Americans and their communities abandoned, bereft, feeling ignored and forgotten.
Yes, the schools that produced the predators also produced other elites also without humanities --elites who in public could never refer to the many fine novels, memoirs, films, and songs which did keep in touch with the tens of millions of the left behind.
They voted for the convicted criminal, the vulgar entertainer because they knew, yes, Hiro, there was a war, and they lost. So millions voted not particularly for the orange fraud, but in deeper feelings of betrayal against all the "educated" elites who seemed not to know them or care enough about them to have plumbed into any of those humanities about them.
The schools, too, Hiro. They suffocate the kids of the working classes with the standardized testing geared only to the conceits of the college-bound elites, as David Brooks has been noting.
It was a war. The whole country lost. The former enslaving classes have finally won.
Depends on the kind of American you are. Some of us are tougher. Some of us will continue to work every quarter to hold on. We had wins in the States. President Biden is appointing and has been appointing many Federal Judges. Millions and millions (around 74 million voted for Harris). Do you think we are just going to walk away from our Democracy?
It is appalling when Americans such as you are saying we lost. We have a fight on our hands like nothing we have ever seen. Either people are with us or not. If you are not, then the least you can do is resist calling game over.
It's offensive. It is subversive to the fight we are going to engage in shortly and it is wildly disrespectful to the people who gave their lives for this Country.
You are right too. I will continue to work with the League of Women Voters as I have been since 2017. I am active. It is the equivalent of a part time job for me (sometimes full time). But without Reproductive Rights for women it is hard to call us a democracy. The overturning of Roe pushed by religious extremists was a turning point. I do not see how we can call this a democracy at this time. I have ancestors (back to revolutionary times) and current relatives who have fought for this country. I love this country. But it has been captured by religious extremists and oligarchs at the same time and they are currently cooperating. Meanwhile our legislators at the federal level and many state legislators have spent years lining their own pockets and not protecting their constituents (including their right to vote).I do not think we yet understand what the overturning of Roe meant or portends. When half the population loses its bodily autonomy and people in power care more for the Bible than the Constitution things look bad to me and maybe irreversible. Still I will work for voting rights. I will not back down from that.
Mary Ellen—thank you for working with the League of Women Voters! I, too do this and I know that the LWV makes a difference!🗽
It’s a dark time for citizens who understand our country’s current situation but we must continue to be vigilant and be the light in the (seemingly) darkness. I could go on but it’s Thanksgiving day and hopefully, people will share the blessings we all share as citizens of the U.S. and take time to think (or heal) and roll up our sleeves and keep moving forward. We will keep working and we will make a difference ❤️🤍💙!
I am, Barbara, the kind of American who regrets so many dehumanized.
If Dems had used our humanities in the recent elections, they could have empathized with, shown concern for our working-class fellow Americans who, by the tens of millions, got their jobs offshored by other elites. Got their communities torn apart, abandoned. Got their kids stuck in schools with no humanities, only standardized testing treating all like numbers, like units in the conceits of dehumanized elites.
No Dems, or almost none, showed any bit of being in touch with any working classes.
Being tough, Barbara, can't make up for elites so evidently dehumanized.
On November 6, 2024 I stopped asking why. I now ask what. What can we do to defeat these people?
Phil, with respect. Either you are going to knuckle down and work to defeat these people or not. It would be unimaginable in the 1800's the 1940's for someone to talk like you are. For people to talk like you are makes it harder for those of us who know we have some hard work ahead of us.
I don’t think we need to denigrate Phil for feelings that many of us have. I empathize with the anger and despair. We can learn from that and do better next time. And we can hope there is a next time. Perhaps this was not the ultimate battlefield. But it’s indeed possible to feel like it was, that once they have taken the White House, Congress and SCOTUS they can rewrite our history going forward. I’m glad so many of the folks on this page are bloody but unbowed. It’s good for me to read about your resilience and determination. But don’t shut up or shut out our sisters and brothers who can’t see the light at the end of the tunnel.
When you throw words like “elite” around, You demonstrate a certain contempt. Someone recently said the word “woke“ to me and I pretended I didn’t understand what it meant and asked her. She was stymied. I remember a time when being elite at anything was an aspiration, not an insult.
Barbara, please let Phil vent. We all need to express and hear both sides. Let us have our grief and anger without shaming us, because many of us are still processing and we need this outlet.
Phil Balla, yes we lost a battle. But the war or struggle for justice and equality is never lost. There are no permanent victories or defeats in this permanent struggle. If Harris won, do you think the struggle would be over? Of course not. There is another battle or midterm election in 2 years, there are court cases to be waged before then. https://jimbuie.substack.com/p/why-did-democratic-senate-candidates
Elections are won and lost, every round. Phil's battle about the humanities likely misses most of the point. You can't run modern civilization without highly developed institutions - economic, medical, technical in so many ways, science itself is beholden to elite developed and maintained knowledge. You need an education system which meets all those needs. No disagreement from me that the humanities are important.
Frank. Trying to win any battle other than saving Democracy in the United States is window dressing. It is akin to George Washington stopping to paint the bow of his boat as he was crossing the Delaware.
If you listen to David Packman or BrianTyler Cohen talk about the disastrous impending tariffs and trade wars with Mexico and Canada, which violate Trump's own new NAFTA agreement you can see there is definitely an economic WAR that is coming and it ain't gonna be pretty.
Of course, Trump will say that the resulting inflation is due to the Democrats policies which of course is just another massive lie.
Trump's entire philosophy is "if it helps make me wealthier, it is good for the country." He now has cover for anything he does from SCOTUS.
The result is that we will return to being a kakistocracy and a kleptocracy where the billionaire class will ultimately be the sole winners but Trump will spin in to have Americans believe that it is the Democrats fault.
You mean all those Americans who heard exactly those warnings about the inflationary effect of large tariffs from Dems and every business broadcast out there are going to think Dems caused that?
I agree with this. I think we have seen the end of our democracy. I want to remind us all that a large group of religious zealots are also going to dominate our country in an organized way with Project 2025. It is they who will help fire the civil servants and roll back rights and protections for the oligarchs. During the Civil War we did not have that one-two-punch. We were fighting enslavers but not evangelical and Catholic extremists as we are now. When Roe was overturned it brought slavery back to the U.S. This time it is our childbearing women who are now enslaved on “moral” grounds—god deemed it, right? We cannot lose sight of this change which I believe will become permanent and nationwide once DJT is in the WH. This state’s rights b.s. was just a temporary thing. When Roe was overturned it was over. And women all over this country gave up their freedoms for good (or many decades at least) when they voted for DJT. Foolish. It is over I agree.
Trump is accountable to people who care most about money and return on investment. Mass deportations and tariffs will not be good for their pocketbooks. They will love tax cuts in the short term but the inflation caused by disregarding the exploding deficit will not make people happy. They want lower taxes and expanded benefits.
Never, Phil. I will never admit defeat. We lost a battle, not the war, which has been between idealists who wanted a more optimal form of human self governance vs. those who only look out for themselves and maybe their tribe, who see outsiders as less than human.
Human nature has not changed, and majority of people are basically good. One or two more election cycles, and the pendulum will swing back. For all the coming losses of progress and rights, they won't go as far back as the 1920s, so we'll be at least that much better starting at the next swing.
Me personally, I'm waiting for the extremes on both sides to fall back out of favor, because they pull the pendulum too far, and kick the current set of losers when they're down. They are the ugly underbelly of each party.
You keep writing about the humanities, as if they're part of the solution. I suspect they are important, but really more of a symptom of society's condition than a core feature. Their reduction over the years has been a symptom, not a cause, of society's drift. Their future growth will be a future symptom of society getting back on track.
Yes, Phil. And I'm sure more. I don't have an answer yet, but listening to others, reading, and assessing what I got wrong is a good place to start. What I'm not listening to is the collection of continuing tirades about Trump, which miss the collection of issues that caused enough people to vote against their own interests.
Well, maybe that's a good place to start. Who am I to tell others what's in their best interests?
Being on the losing side, I'll listen and keep my wits and "weapons" sharp, and hope I stay healthy enough to eventually be on the prevailing side.
I feel your sorrow, Phil. Things do look bleak at the moment. What is most disappointing is all those millions, who after seeing the Orange Sphincter make a mockery of American democracy for nine years, said, “I’m with him.”
I sense that there’s something out there, something not yet seen, that will be a seismic event. Covid was a harbinger, imagine the current assembled assortment of clowns facing a future existential crisis that appears.
Their complete lack of empathy and compassion, coupled with their incompetence will turn the electorate against them. After all, the price of eggs became a MAGA rally cry against Biden. It won’t take much “suffering” to make them turn on the felon.
Speaking of that hypothetical event, I just looked at my stocks, and they rose after the 2008 banking crisis and then zoomed up after the pandemic. Is that the plan? I don't have enough to be life-altering, but I wonder. To put the best face on it, Trump's cronies will get a heads up before market altering moves. Once they get theirs (their weslth to dlyrocket as in The Big Short), they might not care if the pendulum swings back left. All we have to do is wait and pick up the crumbs after 4 years.
Fascism. There are people, who using the same cudgel Hitler used, have come to take over our Country. The Republicans under trump followed the exact playbook of Hitler to try and gain power. This coup has been going on for 9 years. At this moment we find ourselves back to 1862 where things aren’t going so well.
Perhaps it’s the same war. After all these years the South is still angry about losing the Civil War. Hence the statues honoring insurrection leaders, and waving the flag of the rebellion in the halls of congress. Is it any wonder they back Trump now? I often wonder if what they are so offended by, what makes them violent, is that they simply can’t keep their slaves.
I'd like to think a lot if not most of that has washed out by now. On the side, how many anti-slavery, civil rights movies have i seen that weren't co-financed by the the State of Georgia film bureau, or pretty balanced renditions of the Civil War by eg the Tennessee education dept on streaming.
The war we are fighting now is between two ideas. One side has adopted the idea that some people are superior and everyone else is inferior. The opposing side has adopted the idea that we are all inherently equal. As Pete Seeger famously asked, "Which side are you on?" For the record, I'm on the "inherently equal" side.
A great starting point! How about: we are fighting for American justice and generosity - justice in terms of everyone is equal before the law, and generosity in terms of allowing illegal immigrants to stay who are engaging in honest work (arming and construction, say) paying honest taxes.
Is this a joke? The party that didn't run a primary, installed a new candidate, censors free speech, used the police state to lock down the country, used the police state to go after its political opponents, are the authoritarians.
The country rendered its verdict and you still are in denial? No one's open borders, inflation, and men showering with women
I just read the whole thing....those two words "at least" in her last lines really hit me in the gut. We've got to make sure that from 2025-2028 WE WIN. What is mine to do?
I think m Moores Fahrenheit 11/9 about the first Trump presidency and about the state of the Democratic Party very worth watching. I was shocked and very disappointed about what Obama did in Flint. People aren’t voting because at least, in part, their votes don’t seem to register. We have got to get rid of the electoral college!!!
Remember the war was from being won when Lincoln made his speech. He knew that there was so much more to do. I think we are in that position now. Let’s share his courage . Thanks Heather!
Democracy is very fragile and must be constantly reinforced and cared for. We took ours for granted and let it slip into the hands of greed and evil. Children practicing "active shooter drills", black people being shot while worshipping and shopping. AR15s and "open carry" being an acceptable actions. As long as it did not come to our back yards we went on without a fight to stop it. We watched Trump rise and fall and return with his army of wealthy fools and soon to be released seditionists. To enforce rounding up and deporting our fellow humans like cattle. Enacting tariffs that will slow the economy for the wealthy to fill their purses and the needy to be frightened and then grateful when returned to a level where most of us can eat and own again. This and other "gifts" of tyranny is what 49% of our fellow Americans have given to us all for many Thanksgivings to come.
One correction: only 1/3 of Americans voted for tRump - slight less than 1/3 voted for Kamala while 1/3 didn’t vote at all. What this means is when 2/3 of Americans feel the pain that is about to be forced upon us, we will have another period where Americans will gain “a more just appreciation” of the value of our Democracy.
Thank you Andrew for this comment. I certainly hope that there is a turn in opinion when immigrants are forced out of our country and people can't afford the cost of fruits and vegetables.
Pretty amazing, the fact that an all-out war was being fought to retain the Union,. Now, the fox was frustrated in not being able to upset an election by force (1-6-2021), so what did the people do? They opened the door and invited the fox inside, to rampage and destroy at his own whim. The takeaway? There is no fix for stupid. How could those who voted for the "fox" actually believe that he had their best interests in mind and at heart?
Richard, those who voted for "the fox" did so on the basis of two things: an alternate set of facts that vilified Democrats and a core belief in American values embodied by the myths told in TV shows like Gunsmoke or movies like It's a Wonderful Life that they were sure were forgotten by the Left. Democrats did not fight the first issue well and we're totally blindsided by the 2nd issue.
Je, I think you're partially right, but you leave out some huge factors - a significant percentage of people who really would like to see the government burn down, a powerful faction of religious lunatics— and a group of billionaires who are happy to harness and exploit these destructive forces to enrich themselves.
Hopefully by getting very involved with writing, calling, marching… peacefully protesting the fact that disinformation and purposeful misinformation and election interference won this election designed to destroy our democracy.
Wishing a good holiday to all those on the Forum. I am fortunate this year: a new grandbaby, no deaths in the family, and progress on personal goals.
I am thankful for all of this, but I am also thankful for all of YOU readers! Your insights, your added content, your overall good humanity gives me hope; and your kind personal messages to me over the past year have been greatly appreciated. It feels like extended family, all over our great nation and beautiful world. All the best to all of you.
Miselle, I second your post. I am grateful to Heather for offering us timely history and yes, to all of you who post here, your life happenings and stories, your passions, your suggestions, your courage. I wish all of you a very serene Thanksgiving and a moment to have gratitude on this day to pause and reflect. We keep our family and friends close, so our neighbors and their daughter will join us tomorrow, a small gathering.
Miselle... I picked a good day to scroll through all of the comments to Heather's letter. I'm glad I found yours. My 2024 has been filled with ups and downs, some personal, some "social study-like." I find myself balancing between the emotions of grief, angry, empathy, apathy. I circle back to a lesson I learned from my time in Iraq working with the Marine Corps: "Embrace the suck and move the heck forward because what over choice do we have." Happy Thanksgiving. v/r ... tjb
When I lost my older brother (also a Marine)to COVID a few years back and mentioned it here, that's when the responses made me realize I was among friends. Stay strong, and thank you for your service.
Especially grateful on this Thanksgiving eve for Heather Cox Richardson's always-timely history.
Yes! Extremely timely! She always seems to know the exact lesson we need to learn in the moment!
Annual message. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=32INoIBaY0M
Wow. Humor may be the best medium for perspectives that we need....
Brings "Bob Dylan's 115th Dream" to mind. https://youtu.be/kbdF4hBfQiE?si=_IziEmonZtkqZJnm
But the funniest thing was leaving' the bay
I spot 3 ships, and they were coming my way
I asked the Captain why he didn't drive a truck
He said his name was Columbus, and I just said good luck
Thanks so much for the recommendation. It's been a while since I listened to that Stan Freberg record. Very funny stuff!
What is the war we are in now? Trump and his supporters seem the Southern elite people. They are trying to deport immigrants who are supporting farming and construction. The northern states have their leader for only two more months and surrender to Trump and his force. Please explain what is the war we are fighting now.
We have a huge segment of our country that has never come to terms with the outcome of that Civil War and continues the grievance and resentment down through generations. Together with the ever presence of powerful oligarch wannabes, we are surely testing again whether this nation will survive in the vision of Lincoln.
Regarding your comment: When I lived in Birmingham AL back in the late 70s, I was shocked to discover that the Civil War was not over, there was a continued sense of grievance resentment, clearly handed down through generations. Growing up in the North, the outcome of the Civil War never crossed my mind.
There’s a reason that many old-school Southerners still refer to the Civil War as “The Great War.”
Never heard it called that, and I have lived in the South for 70+ years. I have heard WWI referred to that way.
I am aware that many Southerners-even young ones-refer to the Civil War as The War Between the States, thus refusing to acknowledge a treasonous rebellion. They also vociferously refuse to acknowledge that slavery was the cause. It’s a clan of deliberate ignorance.
It was a Great War for good reasons, not to mention the end of slavery and the cost in lives and treasure.
"has never come to terms with the outcome of that Civil War"
Exactly!! And has never come to terms with the dismantling of Jim Crow. The Groper-in-Chief has given a face and a voice to the resulting "grievance and resentment".
And has never come to terms with wealthy white men who want to have their way and to hell with everyone else.
Please reference Dr. Richardson’s own book, “How the South won the Civil War,” a must-read. And so it goes, especially the racism and the power of money.
It’s an education issue. We forgot to make sure we turned our American citizens into educated and informed adults. Somewhere along the way we confused a consumer-based economy with virtue.
We need a virtue-based economy.
Where was the zero tolerance policy re. immigrants from Jesus? There wasn’t one.
The war we are fighting is based in a lot of history, not all of it American. Because every country at some point has had to deal with the want-to-be dictators, the kings, the selfish who want power, wealth and to have things their way only, who think of themselves as special and have no humility or understanding of how a successful society works. Our own young democracy deals with this periodically. All of the southern influence is important to understand because of its roots in people owning other people and how the owners are immoral about that fact. Republican Party has very much become that owner type and wants to run and ruin the whole country, and not just the ‘north’, for their own ends. It is very stupid to think and believe this way because people in general have always done better when they understand they are part of society and not separate from it, no matter what group they might be in.
Just about every war starts with these elements of inner behavior - people like this next president, who basically have never grown up and taken real responsibility as citizens. They become good at fooling the parts of the population that don't pay any attention to the importance of their own power as voters. They go to war for power, against their opponents who want peace and for things to run fairly and equitably.
Hiro, I hope this helps a little bit. Our job now as citizens is to grow and support the institutions that are healthy for the whole population, like libraries, schools, medicine, school boards, police, city county state legal bodies, who are at the roots of a democratic society that is trying to work for its own healthy good.
And the current about to be leaders have been elected by LYING to the voters. Just because they say something a 1000 times doesn't make it true but that's the way they stole this election. 2020 wasn't a stolen election but 2024 was.
STOP THE STEAL
Trump is first and foremost a grifter and a grafter. He is a master at marketing misinformation and disinformation.
He sells hate and fear which seems antithetical to marketing, but it works.
He makes people afraid of the boogie man that doesn't even exist.
Our duty is to break through the cognitive dissonance where it is being reinforced -- in churches and on social media and even in the corporate media.
You are so right. Goebbels said to lie, and repeat, repeat, repeat
I will bet that when all the investigations of the vast voter suppression are complete, that this election could very well have been stolen. I can't say that at this time with any degree of certainty. The Republican's long-game has proven to be effective. They got Roe overturned. And they have been effective in voter suppression.
It feels that way. Something feels so off.
Yes, that's a good phrase, "Something feels so off." It applies to many current responses to situations.
Republicans made a big deal about voter suppression these past few years after the Supreme Court pillaged the Voting Right Act. A lot of people who didn't vote wanted to but were thwarted by the additional burdens to voting as well as the virulent hatred aimed at them.
We have a huge portion of the populace that has taken democracy for granted and has no appreciation of the blood and treasure spent defending it. The leaders, here to fore, were willing to sacrifice millions of lives and billions of dollars so we could vote and have a country by and for the people. Today, we have a population so ignorant as to willingly vote for a wannabe dictator.
Thank you. Thank you so much for saying this.
My deep concern is that Americans have lost the will to fight for Democracy.
Worse than that, we have a huge segment of the population that doesn’t want democracy anymore. They have no idea what they are throwing away.
We're not fighting it, Hiro. It's over. We lost.
It's not just the vulgar, racist orange felon. It's not just the schools that produced the tens of millions who willingly put lies over truth, who ignored the public good for buffoon sensationalism and "bing-bing-boing-bong" reality show nonsense.
More, it's the many, many dehumanized M.B.A.s, bankers, humanly empty lawyers, lobbyists, and corporate officials who offshored the tens of millions of American working-class jobs and left those Americans and their communities abandoned, bereft, feeling ignored and forgotten.
Yes, the schools that produced the predators also produced other elites also without humanities --elites who in public could never refer to the many fine novels, memoirs, films, and songs which did keep in touch with the tens of millions of the left behind.
They voted for the convicted criminal, the vulgar entertainer because they knew, yes, Hiro, there was a war, and they lost. So millions voted not particularly for the orange fraud, but in deeper feelings of betrayal against all the "educated" elites who seemed not to know them or care enough about them to have plumbed into any of those humanities about them.
The schools, too, Hiro. They suffocate the kids of the working classes with the standardized testing geared only to the conceits of the college-bound elites, as David Brooks has been noting.
It was a war. The whole country lost. The former enslaving classes have finally won.
Depends on the kind of American you are. Some of us are tougher. Some of us will continue to work every quarter to hold on. We had wins in the States. President Biden is appointing and has been appointing many Federal Judges. Millions and millions (around 74 million voted for Harris). Do you think we are just going to walk away from our Democracy?
It is appalling when Americans such as you are saying we lost. We have a fight on our hands like nothing we have ever seen. Either people are with us or not. If you are not, then the least you can do is resist calling game over.
It's offensive. It is subversive to the fight we are going to engage in shortly and it is wildly disrespectful to the people who gave their lives for this Country.
Thanks Barbara, and AMEN.
You are right too. I will continue to work with the League of Women Voters as I have been since 2017. I am active. It is the equivalent of a part time job for me (sometimes full time). But without Reproductive Rights for women it is hard to call us a democracy. The overturning of Roe pushed by religious extremists was a turning point. I do not see how we can call this a democracy at this time. I have ancestors (back to revolutionary times) and current relatives who have fought for this country. I love this country. But it has been captured by religious extremists and oligarchs at the same time and they are currently cooperating. Meanwhile our legislators at the federal level and many state legislators have spent years lining their own pockets and not protecting their constituents (including their right to vote).I do not think we yet understand what the overturning of Roe meant or portends. When half the population loses its bodily autonomy and people in power care more for the Bible than the Constitution things look bad to me and maybe irreversible. Still I will work for voting rights. I will not back down from that.
Mary Ellen—thank you for working with the League of Women Voters! I, too do this and I know that the LWV makes a difference!🗽
It’s a dark time for citizens who understand our country’s current situation but we must continue to be vigilant and be the light in the (seemingly) darkness. I could go on but it’s Thanksgiving day and hopefully, people will share the blessings we all share as citizens of the U.S. and take time to think (or heal) and roll up our sleeves and keep moving forward. We will keep working and we will make a difference ❤️🤍💙!
I am, Barbara, the kind of American who regrets so many dehumanized.
If Dems had used our humanities in the recent elections, they could have empathized with, shown concern for our working-class fellow Americans who, by the tens of millions, got their jobs offshored by other elites. Got their communities torn apart, abandoned. Got their kids stuck in schools with no humanities, only standardized testing treating all like numbers, like units in the conceits of dehumanized elites.
No Dems, or almost none, showed any bit of being in touch with any working classes.
Being tough, Barbara, can't make up for elites so evidently dehumanized.
On November 6, 2024 I stopped asking why. I now ask what. What can we do to defeat these people?
Phil, with respect. Either you are going to knuckle down and work to defeat these people or not. It would be unimaginable in the 1800's the 1940's for someone to talk like you are. For people to talk like you are makes it harder for those of us who know we have some hard work ahead of us.
I don’t think we need to denigrate Phil for feelings that many of us have. I empathize with the anger and despair. We can learn from that and do better next time. And we can hope there is a next time. Perhaps this was not the ultimate battlefield. But it’s indeed possible to feel like it was, that once they have taken the White House, Congress and SCOTUS they can rewrite our history going forward. I’m glad so many of the folks on this page are bloody but unbowed. It’s good for me to read about your resilience and determination. But don’t shut up or shut out our sisters and brothers who can’t see the light at the end of the tunnel.
When you throw words like “elite” around, You demonstrate a certain contempt. Someone recently said the word “woke“ to me and I pretended I didn’t understand what it meant and asked her. She was stymied. I remember a time when being elite at anything was an aspiration, not an insult.
Elite nowadays, Beyhan, means college educated.
Barbara, please let Phil vent. We all need to express and hear both sides. Let us have our grief and anger without shaming us, because many of us are still processing and we need this outlet.
My dear. I never said Phil could not vent. Please read my comment on this being a place where people could indeed vent.
Phil Balla, yes we lost a battle. But the war or struggle for justice and equality is never lost. There are no permanent victories or defeats in this permanent struggle. If Harris won, do you think the struggle would be over? Of course not. There is another battle or midterm election in 2 years, there are court cases to be waged before then. https://jimbuie.substack.com/p/why-did-democratic-senate-candidates
Elections are won and lost, every round. Phil's battle about the humanities likely misses most of the point. You can't run modern civilization without highly developed institutions - economic, medical, technical in so many ways, science itself is beholden to elite developed and maintained knowledge. You need an education system which meets all those needs. No disagreement from me that the humanities are important.
Frank. Trying to win any battle other than saving Democracy in the United States is window dressing. It is akin to George Washington stopping to paint the bow of his boat as he was crossing the Delaware.
Thank you for staying hopeful, this is what we need more than ever. Having a goal is very important!
Yes, we did lose Phil.
If you listen to David Packman or BrianTyler Cohen talk about the disastrous impending tariffs and trade wars with Mexico and Canada, which violate Trump's own new NAFTA agreement you can see there is definitely an economic WAR that is coming and it ain't gonna be pretty.
Of course, Trump will say that the resulting inflation is due to the Democrats policies which of course is just another massive lie.
Trump's entire philosophy is "if it helps make me wealthier, it is good for the country." He now has cover for anything he does from SCOTUS.
The result is that we will return to being a kakistocracy and a kleptocracy where the billionaire class will ultimately be the sole winners but Trump will spin in to have Americans believe that it is the Democrats fault.
Rupert is the spinner, chump is the spinee
You mean all those Americans who heard exactly those warnings about the inflationary effect of large tariffs from Dems and every business broadcast out there are going to think Dems caused that?
Probably Frank. They will believe whatever Trump and his media tell them.
the Trumpy side of the electorate that is.... of course, we are in many ways all beholden to our media "choices", aren't we, Helen?
"If you listen to David Packman or Brian Tyler Cohen talk about the disastrous impending tariffs..."
Welp. That is the first issue. We have the option of not listening to fear mongering.
I agree with this. I think we have seen the end of our democracy. I want to remind us all that a large group of religious zealots are also going to dominate our country in an organized way with Project 2025. It is they who will help fire the civil servants and roll back rights and protections for the oligarchs. During the Civil War we did not have that one-two-punch. We were fighting enslavers but not evangelical and Catholic extremists as we are now. When Roe was overturned it brought slavery back to the U.S. This time it is our childbearing women who are now enslaved on “moral” grounds—god deemed it, right? We cannot lose sight of this change which I believe will become permanent and nationwide once DJT is in the WH. This state’s rights b.s. was just a temporary thing. When Roe was overturned it was over. And women all over this country gave up their freedoms for good (or many decades at least) when they voted for DJT. Foolish. It is over I agree.
https://joycevance.substack.com/p/not-broken#:~:text=Upgrade%20to%20paid-,Not%20Broken,-JOYCE%20VANCE
Thank you, Barbara 🗽!
Trump is accountable to people who care most about money and return on investment. Mass deportations and tariffs will not be good for their pocketbooks. They will love tax cuts in the short term but the inflation caused by disregarding the exploding deficit will not make people happy. They want lower taxes and expanded benefits.
Never, Phil. I will never admit defeat. We lost a battle, not the war, which has been between idealists who wanted a more optimal form of human self governance vs. those who only look out for themselves and maybe their tribe, who see outsiders as less than human.
Human nature has not changed, and majority of people are basically good. One or two more election cycles, and the pendulum will swing back. For all the coming losses of progress and rights, they won't go as far back as the 1920s, so we'll be at least that much better starting at the next swing.
Me personally, I'm waiting for the extremes on both sides to fall back out of favor, because they pull the pendulum too far, and kick the current set of losers when they're down. They are the ugly underbelly of each party.
You keep writing about the humanities, as if they're part of the solution. I suspect they are important, but really more of a symptom of society's condition than a core feature. Their reduction over the years has been a symptom, not a cause, of society's drift. Their future growth will be a future symptom of society getting back on track.
Solution, Je?
Just listening to "others." Conversing, openly, generously.
This may well involve citing others, in humanities or by other analogies.
Yes, Phil. And I'm sure more. I don't have an answer yet, but listening to others, reading, and assessing what I got wrong is a good place to start. What I'm not listening to is the collection of continuing tirades about Trump, which miss the collection of issues that caused enough people to vote against their own interests.
Well, maybe that's a good place to start. Who am I to tell others what's in their best interests?
Being on the losing side, I'll listen and keep my wits and "weapons" sharp, and hope I stay healthy enough to eventually be on the prevailing side.
I feel your sorrow, Phil. Things do look bleak at the moment. What is most disappointing is all those millions, who after seeing the Orange Sphincter make a mockery of American democracy for nine years, said, “I’m with him.”
I sense that there’s something out there, something not yet seen, that will be a seismic event. Covid was a harbinger, imagine the current assembled assortment of clowns facing a future existential crisis that appears.
Their complete lack of empathy and compassion, coupled with their incompetence will turn the electorate against them. After all, the price of eggs became a MAGA rally cry against Biden. It won’t take much “suffering” to make them turn on the felon.
Speaking of that hypothetical event, I just looked at my stocks, and they rose after the 2008 banking crisis and then zoomed up after the pandemic. Is that the plan? I don't have enough to be life-altering, but I wonder. To put the best face on it, Trump's cronies will get a heads up before market altering moves. Once they get theirs (their weslth to dlyrocket as in The Big Short), they might not care if the pendulum swings back left. All we have to do is wait and pick up the crumbs after 4 years.
Fascism. There are people, who using the same cudgel Hitler used, have come to take over our Country. The Republicans under trump followed the exact playbook of Hitler to try and gain power. This coup has been going on for 9 years. At this moment we find ourselves back to 1862 where things aren’t going so well.
We will prevail.
Perhaps it’s the same war. After all these years the South is still angry about losing the Civil War. Hence the statues honoring insurrection leaders, and waving the flag of the rebellion in the halls of congress. Is it any wonder they back Trump now? I often wonder if what they are so offended by, what makes them violent, is that they simply can’t keep their slaves.
I'd like to think a lot if not most of that has washed out by now. On the side, how many anti-slavery, civil rights movies have i seen that weren't co-financed by the the State of Georgia film bureau, or pretty balanced renditions of the Civil War by eg the Tennessee education dept on streaming.
We're in the moron war and they should be treated as such. They have no understanding of how government works for the people they will be serving.
The war we are fighting now is between two ideas. One side has adopted the idea that some people are superior and everyone else is inferior. The opposing side has adopted the idea that we are all inherently equal. As Pete Seeger famously asked, "Which side are you on?" For the record, I'm on the "inherently equal" side.
A great starting point! How about: we are fighting for American justice and generosity - justice in terms of everyone is equal before the law, and generosity in terms of allowing illegal immigrants to stay who are engaging in honest work (arming and construction, say) paying honest taxes.
https://joycevance.substack.com/p/not-broken#:~:text=Upgrade%20to%20paid-,Not%20Broken,-JOYCE%20VANCE
Is this a joke? The party that didn't run a primary, installed a new candidate, censors free speech, used the police state to lock down the country, used the police state to go after its political opponents, are the authoritarians.
The country rendered its verdict and you still are in denial? No one's open borders, inflation, and men showering with women
Propaganda
Same old, same old, from the same sad person.
Pathetic to win and still be so angry.
I just read the whole thing....those two words "at least" in her last lines really hit me in the gut. We've got to make sure that from 2025-2028 WE WIN. What is mine to do?
I think m Moores Fahrenheit 11/9 about the first Trump presidency and about the state of the Democratic Party very worth watching. I was shocked and very disappointed about what Obama did in Flint. People aren’t voting because at least, in part, their votes don’t seem to register. We have got to get rid of the electoral college!!!
Here we are again. A few very wealthy people want it all.
Remember the war was from being won when Lincoln made his speech. He knew that there was so much more to do. I think we are in that position now. Let’s share his courage . Thanks Heather!
Yes… far from being won… as we are far from victory today. But victorious we shall be eventually!
Democracy is very fragile and must be constantly reinforced and cared for. We took ours for granted and let it slip into the hands of greed and evil. Children practicing "active shooter drills", black people being shot while worshipping and shopping. AR15s and "open carry" being an acceptable actions. As long as it did not come to our back yards we went on without a fight to stop it. We watched Trump rise and fall and return with his army of wealthy fools and soon to be released seditionists. To enforce rounding up and deporting our fellow humans like cattle. Enacting tariffs that will slow the economy for the wealthy to fill their purses and the needy to be frightened and then grateful when returned to a level where most of us can eat and own again. This and other "gifts" of tyranny is what 49% of our fellow Americans have given to us all for many Thanksgivings to come.
Bless their cold hearts
One correction: only 1/3 of Americans voted for tRump - slight less than 1/3 voted for Kamala while 1/3 didn’t vote at all. What this means is when 2/3 of Americans feel the pain that is about to be forced upon us, we will have another period where Americans will gain “a more just appreciation” of the value of our Democracy.
Thank you Andrew for this comment. I certainly hope that there is a turn in opinion when immigrants are forced out of our country and people can't afford the cost of fruits and vegetables.
Sad to say indeed, July, not sure they feel they've got "cold" hearts though or that they serve "greed and evil".
I agree that "they" do not see themselves. Most likely never will
that's how all polarities work, July. Both sides see themselves as the "chosen right". Such is life.
Pretty amazing, the fact that an all-out war was being fought to retain the Union,. Now, the fox was frustrated in not being able to upset an election by force (1-6-2021), so what did the people do? They opened the door and invited the fox inside, to rampage and destroy at his own whim. The takeaway? There is no fix for stupid. How could those who voted for the "fox" actually believe that he had their best interests in mind and at heart?
Richard, those who voted for "the fox" did so on the basis of two things: an alternate set of facts that vilified Democrats and a core belief in American values embodied by the myths told in TV shows like Gunsmoke or movies like It's a Wonderful Life that they were sure were forgotten by the Left. Democrats did not fight the first issue well and we're totally blindsided by the 2nd issue.
Je, I think you're partially right, but you leave out some huge factors - a significant percentage of people who really would like to see the government burn down, a powerful faction of religious lunatics— and a group of billionaires who are happy to harness and exploit these destructive forces to enrich themselves.
Well, perhaps naive as well.
Many Americans don’t even realize they’re in a war yet. Once they realize that they are the real fighting will begin.
"real fighting" as in what, DMS?
Hopefully by getting very involved with writing, calling, marching… peacefully protesting the fact that disinformation and purposeful misinformation and election interference won this election designed to destroy our democracy.
I think people needed a minute to recover from the shock, process sadness and now move toward anger.
And by VOTING
I have a t-shirt which says ,"Voting prevents unwanted presidencies." I think the condom broke.
sounds like the right kind ... thanks for clarifying DMS
Wishing a good holiday to all those on the Forum. I am fortunate this year: a new grandbaby, no deaths in the family, and progress on personal goals.
I am thankful for all of this, but I am also thankful for all of YOU readers! Your insights, your added content, your overall good humanity gives me hope; and your kind personal messages to me over the past year have been greatly appreciated. It feels like extended family, all over our great nation and beautiful world. All the best to all of you.
Miselle, I second your post. I am grateful to Heather for offering us timely history and yes, to all of you who post here, your life happenings and stories, your passions, your suggestions, your courage. I wish all of you a very serene Thanksgiving and a moment to have gratitude on this day to pause and reflect. We keep our family and friends close, so our neighbors and their daughter will join us tomorrow, a small gathering.
Miselle... I picked a good day to scroll through all of the comments to Heather's letter. I'm glad I found yours. My 2024 has been filled with ups and downs, some personal, some "social study-like." I find myself balancing between the emotions of grief, angry, empathy, apathy. I circle back to a lesson I learned from my time in Iraq working with the Marine Corps: "Embrace the suck and move the heck forward because what over choice do we have." Happy Thanksgiving. v/r ... tjb
When I lost my older brother (also a Marine)to COVID a few years back and mentioned it here, that's when the responses made me realize I was among friends. Stay strong, and thank you for your service.