HCR you made it into the NY Times morning newsletter! David Leonhardt quoted you directly!! Here it is:
At other moments, though, Biden conveyed his ideas clearly. “Biden made the debate about the country and the American people, not about Trump,” the historian Heather Cox Richardson wrote in her newsletter. “While Trump listed his own grievances, Biden spoke to the camera, asking Americans what they needed, what they think.” He behaved as many previous presidential candidates, of both parties, have during debates.
This is not just an important acknowledgement of your excellence--it acknowledges the importance of historians in presenting a rational analysis based on facts and data. I'm kind of ecstatic!
Heather insists on living in this pretend reality where Biden is a good candidate. She is not excellent. She regurgitates the news with no interesting opinions. You may as well watch MSNBC because there is nothing that she says that you can't see there.
Actually, HCR often provides historical context and connect-the-dots analysis not available on MSNBC or elsewhere. Your statement that “Heather insists on living in the pretend reality where Biden is a good candidate.” misstates her position. I think the more likely reality is that Heather thinks Biden is the better candidate. I can’t imagine many Biden supporters think Joe is the best candidate, but between Biden and Trump, Biden is clearly the better candidate/man to have his hands on the nuclear levers.
I continue to be struck by the narrow-minded, vitriolic, name-calling replies that follow every post by someone of a contrary opinion.
She literally praised Biden's plans as well-thought out.
As for the narrow minded replies, it doesn't surprise me. I've seen those all year long from the Vote Blue No Matter Who voters who brought us Biden in the first place.
I’m curious about your grounds for “never” Biden. In this race, “never” Biden implies that unless you intend to throw away your vote, you believe Trump is the better choice and you will vote for him. Please explain you rationale.
First of all, nobody throws away their vote. Their vote is their own to do with as they please. If they choose to vote for a third party, it is the fault of the major party candidates for not giving them a reason to support them, not the fault of the voter. So you bitter Hillary voters can take your Jill Stein hatred and blame her for not being a better candidate and not addressing her voter's concerns.
Secondly, unless you live in a competitive state, your individual vote for President doesn't matter a whole lot. Whether I vote for President or not, Biden will win my state easily. This is why I want the Electoral College abolished. I'm tired of my vote for President being less important than an Ohio or Pennsylvania vote.
No Joe, I am curious about your stance. Is it simply that you would prefer another Democratic candidate than Biden and, if so, whom? Or is it that you would vote for the Donald no matter who the Democrats selected? I am not being facetious, but this would help all of us to put your comments into perspective.
Yes. I would have preferred any of them to Biden. Even Klobuchar because at least she has the intellectual honesty not to pretend that she is something she isn't. She would never pretend she is for green energy or Medicare For All and even though those are things that I consider important, I consider honesty more important.
Biden has lied so many times over his career that it's hard to keep track of them all. But here's a compilation of several of the best.
Thank you foe your reply. It provides a context which makes your objections quite rational and not deserving of some of the inane responses you received. I too would have preferred someone other than Biden, but not among the options that were offered.
I made it a point NOT to watch the debates. I assumed they'd be a shitshow, so I read a book on my Kindle about Socialism (how's that for irony?) and went to bed. I woke up around 2am and couldn't go back to sleep so I went online. Whereupon I hear Dana Bash saying "that was not a debate: that was a shitshow." Told ya.
I do not see why Biden bothered with this nonsense. It is like mud wrestling with a pig: you always lose, you get dirty, and the pig likes it. What disturbs me most of all is that most of the earlier presidential debates -- Nixon/Kennedy in 1960, Reagan/Mondale in 1980, Clinton/Bush/Perot in 1988 -- seem positively Ciceronian by comparison. I don't think that it's intellectual snobbery -- at least I hope it isn't -- to lament this as a type of culpable ignorance on the part of the American electorate. How do we stand for this? Can we not even notice it anymore?
It is important to keep the fire burning for Liberal Republican Democracy, and not only vote but organize and be politically active in whatever way one can. The struggle will go on long after all this mishegoss is finished. But there is also something a little disingenuous in saying that we cannot let Donald Trump undermine our faith in the American experiment. and American institutions. The American experiment was on life support long before 45 came upon the scene and, with a talent characteristic of able con-men, ripped all the IV tubes out.
Biden promises us an interregnum of calm while we take deep breaths and start getting things to work again. And boy, that would be a relief! But the interregnum can't be too long. The problems that eat away at our trust in US institutions will remain. Biden needs to realize he is a transitional figure. And frankly, I don't think his shoving his party's progressive wing aside in this farcical debate helped much -- he needs the Sanders/Warren/Squad wing of the party to help establish the cool resting place the polity needs so badly. But Biden is a stopgap and a temporary bulwark, and I hope he realizes that Trump is just the advance wave of illiberal, undemocratic, unrepublican authoritarian force, and there are other aspiring demagogues far more cool and collected than Trump who are just as bad or worse. "President Tucker Carlson" is a prospect that sets my teeth on edge.
In short, the problem isn't just "them" -- the rich and powerful elites, even though they bear a larger measure of blame. As Walt Kelly's Pogo cartoon once said: "we have seen the enemy and he is us." We got us into this mess by inattention, thinking with our adrenal glands instead of our brains, pettiness, and a devotion to a uniquely asocial and apolitical individualism, the cult of wealth and fame. "Exceptionalism" is the original sin of the USA. We must dispense with it. Otherwise the shitshow will get even messier.
I had a client yesterday say to me she wasn’t going to vote because she’s just sick of the whole thing and then a couple of sentences later she commented “I don’t know how we got into this mess in the first place” and I looked at her and said “because people like you didn’t vote”! She said, “you’re right. I’m going to vote”.
Laura, your statement "The American experiment was on life support long before 45 came upon the scene and, with a talent characteristic of able con-men, ripped all the IV tubes out." was similar to something I posted a few days ago. Trump has brought this to a head, but he did not start it. Where we are now has been simmering on the back burner for quite some time. We collectively have to work through this, but there can be no resting on the laurels right now. There is too much that needs attention and too many entities out in the wings waiting to tear it apart again. His statement to the Proud Boys (and only them!) proves exactly where we are and what we will face if our current climate of distrust and exclusivity continues. I don't envy anyone trying to wrap their arms around this mess and make some sense of it, but we all have to work to get well, if that is even possible at this point. I think it is a shame we have allowed ourselves to get here.
I absolutely agree, Trump is a symptom of where we've come to. Some through cynicism, some through exhaustion. Still, this is too important to let lie.
The old quote about "All it takes for evil to succeed is for men of good will to do nothing" (off the top of my head, but gets the point), was never truer than today.
We don't have time for hand wringing. Once Biden wins, we must get to work. It will be a slog, but the alternative is unthinkable.
“It is like mud wrestling with a pig: you always lose, you get dirty, and the pig likes it.” This is more than great! Funny in a world that certainly is not. Thank you for your synopsis...it hits right on the nail head!
Laura, i think this is possibly the most coherent, intelligent and well annotated comment I have read on this site. If HCR ever decides to take a break, maybe you could fill in. I have read it twice and enjoyed it thoroughly.
I agree with much of what you have said. I consider myself of the left but being of late middle age, I've seen enough of this country's political yin and yang to find the threat of left-side abandonment annoying. Politics is a long game and nobody who is serious about our future would be off hand about the chance of Trump and his crew of thieves and fascists getting a second term. We can have our fights with Biden and the moderates but first we have to do what we can to insure that he won't be repeated.
I'm less concerned about Tucker Carlson than I am about Tom Cotton and Josh Hawley.
Thanks so much, Heather. Yours is the best summary I've read tonight because it exactly agrees with what I saw. Biden had to stand up to OOO-45's third grade bully with oppositional defiant disorder behavior because Chris Wallace was incapable of doing so. He managed to actually make some policy points in spite of it and definitely came across as smart, strong, capable, and caring, all characteristics I value in my president. It's a relief to finally read an analysis that doesn't equate the two.
CNN's rendering on their site this morning was highly emotional....sharing the catatonic state of shock suffered by their Fox News colleague, the "referee" Wallace. However, WaPo, NYT, Politicos, LA Times and the major newspapers over here have been able to get past their overall distaste for Trump...and surprise that he is no different in person than in his teweets... to see that Biden did actually draw to himself the little light that was available.....he disproved much that Trump etc says about him and talked to the people. Not too bad but I'm not sure that anybody needs a repeat performance.
What will a repeat performance prove except that Trump can't shut up? Biden attempted to be a gentlemen throughout, though I got so tired of the over-talking and Wallace trying to shut Trump down that at one point I had to leave the room. It was making my head hurt. I want fact-checkers at the next one, who will hold up a red flag whenever a lie is told, or a truth bent beyond recognition.. .for either candidate...though I suspect the flag would fly up many more times when Trump is spewing his version of 'Merica. I'll give Biden this...when Trump would start over-talking, Biden would keep going, which helped keep Trump's minions from hearing everything he was vomiting. Love the pig tin the barn analogy! What an utter disgrace.
I watched the whole show and I was proud of Vice President Joe Biden. He has a charming smile and he often laughed at Trump’s falsehoods. He would shake his head at lies and I think he was convincing. Trump just seemed desperate, rude and pompous. He is a big baby and a bully. Joe Biden was presidential, I thought.
Thanks for that clear outline. It was kind of hard to put it all in line like that. I felt a little punch-drunk, I think.
I wasn’t super happy about Biden having to dip into the mud a little, but when you’re trying to push a pig out of the barn, you’re going to get a little shit on you. The trick is to keep it to a minimum so people can still recognize you.
The heartbreaking nature of that debacle was inevitable. Our president has reduced the office and our national morale to record lows and in order to rise up, Biden had to grab the focus on that same level. Now that he has waved some of the attention away from Trump (Hello? Over here?!) he can move on in the next debates to a more civilized, higher plane. He proved himself as a brawler if need be, now he must remind us what a true leader the President always used to be.
I was pretty relieved when it was over, though. I got a tummy ache just watching.
I felt assaulted myself after watching the entire debacle. I screamed at my TV—multiple times—cut the mic!
I also wanted fact checks—possible perhaps with a 4 or 5 minute time delay. Or better yet, with as Rachel Maddow tweeted: Perhaps we could also debate by mail.
No way should the American people ever again be subjected to this kind of abuse.
I watched the NYT live stream that had both comments from reporters and live fact-checking. It made that food fight with words much more bearable to watch.
Kathleen, I’m hoping the Oct 15 & 22 debates are either cancelled in their entirety or fact checked on live TV. If neither happens—thanks to your tip—I will watch via a live-streaming, fact-checking service.
"Boss, that's the last time you get on a public stage with Donald Trump. Don't give him another free opportunity to continue to tear the country apart."
McConnell? Barr? Lindsay Graham? Do you "men" have something to say about what happened last night? You're OK with Trump's behavior?
You got your judges, Mitch. What more do you want that's worth what Trump is doing to the country?
I've just watched the debate that I recorded last night and am very glad I did. I'm not so shocked as one has become inured to Trump's stupidities. In fact, I'm quite happy about the debate as it showed Biden to be REAL and confirmed Trump for what he is.... a danger to American democracy. Biden is not just an "anything but Trump" candidate. He is a decent, balanced man who can remain calm under "difficult" circumstances and still sound reasonable and intelligent. He has his shortcomings, but so do we all, but he "bearded the bear" in his own lair and came away with his skin better than intact and a new confidence for the future. He showed that he is there for all the people. This might not discourage the diehards on the extreme right but it is reason for optimism for everybody else
Honestly, of all the pundits out there tonight, Bill Kristol said it best; Biden should spend the rest of the campaign season having town halls with the American People not spending 90 minutes per debate in a free for all fending off the verbal slop of an undignified, bullying incompetent lout.
Thanks, as always, HCR, for your analysis as well as posting your sources. I didn't have the stomach to watch much live commentary afterwards, though I did read a bit of analyses and the NYT fact check before I finally conked out. Oy.
Ugh! I intentionally watched on Cspan so I wouldn't have to watch with creeps like Christy. It's bad enough PBS had Gary Abernathy on a panel. I did watch a bit of the Lincoln Project analysis after the fact. They were brutally spot on. And hilarious.
I watched on MSNBC for that reason. And when I looked at the commentary on ABC and CNN, both Chris Christie and Rick Santorum wouldn’t say anything bad about tRump except he was “too hot”. Then they both talked about Biden “faltering “.
Thank you, Heather. Your report, and the others I've read this morning, make me glad I live in Germany and was in bed asleep while this took place. I don't plan on going on-line t watch the full event. My absentee vote is already cast, received, signature & registration checked, and waiting to be counted with the rest on Nov. 3.
Though your letters often bring us shocking and alarming news, they also bring us hope. I am ready at this point to limit my national political news to your letters. By doing that I have a chance to retain my sanity until Trump is blown out of office by a tidal wave of opposition in the election.
At other moments, though, Biden conveyed his ideas clearly. “Biden made the debate about the country and the American people, not about Trump,” the historian Heather Cox Richardson wrote in her newsletter. “While Trump listed his own grievances, Biden spoke to the camera, asking Americans what they needed, what they think.” He behaved as many previous presidential candidates, of both parties, have during debates.
One thing that was very clear last night was that Joe Biden was raised to respect other people, not to bully, not to raise his voice in anger, to treat people with respect, to listen to other people, to take turns and wait for his, and - in summary - to live by the golden rule. It was equally clear that Donald Trump was not.
First election poll worker here. Stepped up in an area where Republicans outnumber Democrats 2:1. At training, our SOE made clear: if Republican Poll Watchers behave during the General Election like they did at the Primary, she will be throwing them out of the room!
I was wondering exactly HOW are his supporters going to "ensure" there is no fraud going on? Do they think they're going to be able to hang around the polling places and look over voters' or poll workers' shoulders??? Hello??? You vote, you leave. Period.
In Massachusetts, I was, first, a poll worker for a couple of years and and then a poll warden for two elections. We had the occasional watcher, but they were never allowed within the precinct's actual voting area. They were ABSOLUTELY not allowed near the ballot machines, nor were they allowed to talk to any voters in the room. I had to have one booted because he broke that last rule. In many states also, voters are not allowed to wear anything political while in the voting area. I enjoyed the work then, but I would not enjoy it now. I thought about volunteering, but I am now in my 70s, and it seems foolish at this COVID moment in any case.
I set my alarm for 2:40am so that I could watch the “debate” live here in Germany.
This morning I’m a zombie, but I couldn’t miss it because so much is at stake in this election and being away from home in this time of such churning, roiling trouble is painful. I feel as if I am being prevented from coming to the aid of a family member who is being attacked by an intruder. Unfortunately, last night’s event was a violent display of just how wicked that intruder is and how much my country is at risk.
This group and you, Professor, are a balm and I know there are millions of people in the country who are in the process of voting or will vote in person on November 3 to rid of us this scourge. But I remain concerned.
He will call on his supporters, many of them armed and infused with his distemper, and they will take to the streets to intimidate voters while voting is taking place, and afterwards cause enough unrest to justify the use of extraordinary measures to halt the counting of ballots, seize them and force the courts to intervene. He is counting on the courts as a backstop and he is counting on the Party of Trump in Congress to settle the matter.
Someone here suggested that Biden should refuse to attend the two remaining debates and instead, conduct town hall meetings to answer voters’ questions: I second that idea. There is nothing to be gained from giving Trump more free airtime to rant uncontrollably – nothing. Last night the entire world saw him clearly for the unrestrained ego in a big blue suit that he is.
Last night felt like a fever dream - I’m going to take a nap!
No, love makes you do some strange things sometimes! I've been here now for nearly 25 years.....watching and hoping that things get a whole lot better in the country where the other half of my heart belongs.
Mary Trump talked in her book about Trump being abused and neglected by his parents, particularly his father, as a child. Understand neglect is just one of many forms of abuse.
Those who have worked or volunteered in the field of intimate partner abuse understand the cycle of abuse that passes from one generation to the next. For those who witness domestic or intimate partner abuse or are abused themselves have very strong tendencies to become abusers themselves. There are many forms of abuse, physical violence is only one of them. However, physical violence is rarely the first or only form of abuse. It is important to understand that abuse is all about one person exercising an imbalance in power to control others. The abuse may take many forms. It can be emotional, financial, sexual, control of friendships and associations, control of freedom of movement outside the home, verbal abuse or control, restrictions on freedom of thought, and yes also physical violence. In the U.S. it is far more prevalent than most realize. Statistics show that approximately 1 in 4 women experience intimate partner abuse at some point in their life.
Breaking the cycle of abuse to prevent it passing from one generation to the next is critically important. Hence the importance of domestic violence prevention programs and education as well as shelters to afford separation of victims from abusers.
With this knowledge and returning to what we witnessed last evening and, in fact, throughout Trump’s first term and family history it is easy to recognize an abuser personality. Recall the textbook definition of an abuser. It is someone who uses an imbalance of power to control others. The abuser will use whatever form of power or control available to them to exert that control over others. Frequently those efforts to control others will go through cycles of escalation until those the abuser seeks to control submit to their authority and power.
With that understanding it should be easy to recognize what we witnessed and why I call it abuse and classify Trump as a classic example of an abusive personality. I also hope all understand how dangerous it is to invest the level of power and authority available to the President of the United States to anyone with an abusive personality disorder.
I'm worried that last night we saw DT and his malignant narcissistic personality disorder enter the end stage of that condition. The best example is Jim Jones getting 800 people to commit suicide by drinking the arsenic laced Kool-Aid. With the power of the Presidency behind him this is quite scary. I hope the Pentagon has plans for a whole bunch of scenarios!
It's a personality disorder that's abusive, but also the aspect of Narcissistic Personality Disorder was on ample display last night. Everything has to be about HIM. Everything is secondary to HIM. If he doesn't get his way, then he becomes abusive and bullies. The man is an analyst's nightmare. (I'm no psychiatrist or psychologist, but I've been a voice teacher for many years and that's pretty close! I know nuts when I see them.)
It is important to understand how dangerous it is to invest the awesome power of the U.S. Presidency in a man with an abusive personality disorder. What we witnessed last night and throughout his first term are classic examples of an abuser. This is so dangerous. Incidentally, but also importantly, this also explains his racist, white supremacist, and misogynistic tendencies and total absence of empathy. These are all characteristics of abusers.
And Biden struck a very sensitive nerve when he had a comeback after 45 dismissed Biden's college education. Biden remarked about him being smart. That was the one time I saw frighteningly real fear and even danger in 45's eyes. Most of 45's talk all night was bombast, but that moment was truly stark.
HCR you made it into the NY Times morning newsletter! David Leonhardt quoted you directly!! Here it is:
At other moments, though, Biden conveyed his ideas clearly. “Biden made the debate about the country and the American people, not about Trump,” the historian Heather Cox Richardson wrote in her newsletter. “While Trump listed his own grievances, Biden spoke to the camera, asking Americans what they needed, what they think.” He behaved as many previous presidential candidates, of both parties, have during debates.
This is not just an important acknowledgement of your excellence--it acknowledges the importance of historians in presenting a rational analysis based on facts and data. I'm kind of ecstatic!
HCR is soooooooo much better than the NY Times! The Times should celebrate whenever HCR quotes them! Thank You Professor Heather.
Someone may have already noted, but let's not forget HCR's brilliantly prescient comment from a day or so ago, "..a cornered rat will bite."
Saw that too! Well deserved.
Heather insists on living in this pretend reality where Biden is a good candidate. She is not excellent. She regurgitates the news with no interesting opinions. You may as well watch MSNBC because there is nothing that she says that you can't see there.
Incel alert...
No one is interested in your bullshit.
hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha you're so funny!! and ill informed.
Actually, HCR often provides historical context and connect-the-dots analysis not available on MSNBC or elsewhere. Your statement that “Heather insists on living in the pretend reality where Biden is a good candidate.” misstates her position. I think the more likely reality is that Heather thinks Biden is the better candidate. I can’t imagine many Biden supporters think Joe is the best candidate, but between Biden and Trump, Biden is clearly the better candidate/man to have his hands on the nuclear levers.
I continue to be struck by the narrow-minded, vitriolic, name-calling replies that follow every post by someone of a contrary opinion.
She literally praised Biden's plans as well-thought out.
As for the narrow minded replies, it doesn't surprise me. I've seen those all year long from the Vote Blue No Matter Who voters who brought us Biden in the first place.
I’m curious about your grounds for “never” Biden. In this race, “never” Biden implies that unless you intend to throw away your vote, you believe Trump is the better choice and you will vote for him. Please explain you rationale.
First of all, nobody throws away their vote. Their vote is their own to do with as they please. If they choose to vote for a third party, it is the fault of the major party candidates for not giving them a reason to support them, not the fault of the voter. So you bitter Hillary voters can take your Jill Stein hatred and blame her for not being a better candidate and not addressing her voter's concerns.
Secondly, unless you live in a competitive state, your individual vote for President doesn't matter a whole lot. Whether I vote for President or not, Biden will win my state easily. This is why I want the Electoral College abolished. I'm tired of my vote for President being less important than an Ohio or Pennsylvania vote.
And your reasons for being “never” Biden are...?
Oh, looky here, a troll / bot in the Substack feed. We need a "block" function.
God forbid that this echo chamber ever deviate from the cult of personality you've got going here
No Joe, I am curious about your stance. Is it simply that you would prefer another Democratic candidate than Biden and, if so, whom? Or is it that you would vote for the Donald no matter who the Democrats selected? I am not being facetious, but this would help all of us to put your comments into perspective.
Yes. I would have preferred any of them to Biden. Even Klobuchar because at least she has the intellectual honesty not to pretend that she is something she isn't. She would never pretend she is for green energy or Medicare For All and even though those are things that I consider important, I consider honesty more important.
Biden has lied so many times over his career that it's hard to keep track of them all. But here's a compilation of several of the best.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Djf9H1k5pg8
Thank you foe your reply. It provides a context which makes your objections quite rational and not deserving of some of the inane responses you received. I too would have preferred someone other than Biden, but not among the options that were offered.
Stay with Hannity and be happy.
That's a real deep comment
I made it a point NOT to watch the debates. I assumed they'd be a shitshow, so I read a book on my Kindle about Socialism (how's that for irony?) and went to bed. I woke up around 2am and couldn't go back to sleep so I went online. Whereupon I hear Dana Bash saying "that was not a debate: that was a shitshow." Told ya.
I do not see why Biden bothered with this nonsense. It is like mud wrestling with a pig: you always lose, you get dirty, and the pig likes it. What disturbs me most of all is that most of the earlier presidential debates -- Nixon/Kennedy in 1960, Reagan/Mondale in 1980, Clinton/Bush/Perot in 1988 -- seem positively Ciceronian by comparison. I don't think that it's intellectual snobbery -- at least I hope it isn't -- to lament this as a type of culpable ignorance on the part of the American electorate. How do we stand for this? Can we not even notice it anymore?
It is important to keep the fire burning for Liberal Republican Democracy, and not only vote but organize and be politically active in whatever way one can. The struggle will go on long after all this mishegoss is finished. But there is also something a little disingenuous in saying that we cannot let Donald Trump undermine our faith in the American experiment. and American institutions. The American experiment was on life support long before 45 came upon the scene and, with a talent characteristic of able con-men, ripped all the IV tubes out.
Biden promises us an interregnum of calm while we take deep breaths and start getting things to work again. And boy, that would be a relief! But the interregnum can't be too long. The problems that eat away at our trust in US institutions will remain. Biden needs to realize he is a transitional figure. And frankly, I don't think his shoving his party's progressive wing aside in this farcical debate helped much -- he needs the Sanders/Warren/Squad wing of the party to help establish the cool resting place the polity needs so badly. But Biden is a stopgap and a temporary bulwark, and I hope he realizes that Trump is just the advance wave of illiberal, undemocratic, unrepublican authoritarian force, and there are other aspiring demagogues far more cool and collected than Trump who are just as bad or worse. "President Tucker Carlson" is a prospect that sets my teeth on edge.
In short, the problem isn't just "them" -- the rich and powerful elites, even though they bear a larger measure of blame. As Walt Kelly's Pogo cartoon once said: "we have seen the enemy and he is us." We got us into this mess by inattention, thinking with our adrenal glands instead of our brains, pettiness, and a devotion to a uniquely asocial and apolitical individualism, the cult of wealth and fame. "Exceptionalism" is the original sin of the USA. We must dispense with it. Otherwise the shitshow will get even messier.
I had a client yesterday say to me she wasn’t going to vote because she’s just sick of the whole thing and then a couple of sentences later she commented “I don’t know how we got into this mess in the first place” and I looked at her and said “because people like you didn’t vote”! She said, “you’re right. I’m going to vote”.
Keep saying it Elaine! To everyone & anyone who utters those words "I'm not going to vote"! Americans need to understand that is no longer an option!
Hurray for you!
Laura, your statement "The American experiment was on life support long before 45 came upon the scene and, with a talent characteristic of able con-men, ripped all the IV tubes out." was similar to something I posted a few days ago. Trump has brought this to a head, but he did not start it. Where we are now has been simmering on the back burner for quite some time. We collectively have to work through this, but there can be no resting on the laurels right now. There is too much that needs attention and too many entities out in the wings waiting to tear it apart again. His statement to the Proud Boys (and only them!) proves exactly where we are and what we will face if our current climate of distrust and exclusivity continues. I don't envy anyone trying to wrap their arms around this mess and make some sense of it, but we all have to work to get well, if that is even possible at this point. I think it is a shame we have allowed ourselves to get here.
I absolutely agree, Trump is a symptom of where we've come to. Some through cynicism, some through exhaustion. Still, this is too important to let lie.
The old quote about "All it takes for evil to succeed is for men of good will to do nothing" (off the top of my head, but gets the point), was never truer than today.
We don't have time for hand wringing. Once Biden wins, we must get to work. It will be a slog, but the alternative is unthinkable.
Thank you!
“It is like mud wrestling with a pig: you always lose, you get dirty, and the pig likes it.” This is more than great! Funny in a world that certainly is not. Thank you for your synopsis...it hits right on the nail head!
Laura, i think this is possibly the most coherent, intelligent and well annotated comment I have read on this site. If HCR ever decides to take a break, maybe you could fill in. I have read it twice and enjoyed it thoroughly.
Thank you very much.
I agree with much of what you have said. I consider myself of the left but being of late middle age, I've seen enough of this country's political yin and yang to find the threat of left-side abandonment annoying. Politics is a long game and nobody who is serious about our future would be off hand about the chance of Trump and his crew of thieves and fascists getting a second term. We can have our fights with Biden and the moderates but first we have to do what we can to insure that he won't be repeated.
I'm less concerned about Tucker Carlson than I am about Tom Cotton and Josh Hawley.
Or Pence.
Excellent comment, Laura!
Thanks so much, Heather. Yours is the best summary I've read tonight because it exactly agrees with what I saw. Biden had to stand up to OOO-45's third grade bully with oppositional defiant disorder behavior because Chris Wallace was incapable of doing so. He managed to actually make some policy points in spite of it and definitely came across as smart, strong, capable, and caring, all characteristics I value in my president. It's a relief to finally read an analysis that doesn't equate the two.
CNN's rendering on their site this morning was highly emotional....sharing the catatonic state of shock suffered by their Fox News colleague, the "referee" Wallace. However, WaPo, NYT, Politicos, LA Times and the major newspapers over here have been able to get past their overall distaste for Trump...and surprise that he is no different in person than in his teweets... to see that Biden did actually draw to himself the little light that was available.....he disproved much that Trump etc says about him and talked to the people. Not too bad but I'm not sure that anybody needs a repeat performance.
What will a repeat performance prove except that Trump can't shut up? Biden attempted to be a gentlemen throughout, though I got so tired of the over-talking and Wallace trying to shut Trump down that at one point I had to leave the room. It was making my head hurt. I want fact-checkers at the next one, who will hold up a red flag whenever a lie is told, or a truth bent beyond recognition.. .for either candidate...though I suspect the flag would fly up many more times when Trump is spewing his version of 'Merica. I'll give Biden this...when Trump would start over-talking, Biden would keep going, which helped keep Trump's minions from hearing everything he was vomiting. Love the pig tin the barn analogy! What an utter disgrace.
Yes, definitely a Red Flag AND Turning his mike OFF as well, when he is LYING!!🤔😊!
Then you wouldn't hear him say very much, huh? :)
That would be a relief!!!
Cancel the debates. Would we give Hitler a podium and microphone?
I want to see what Harris and Pence do, though.
I watched the whole show and I was proud of Vice President Joe Biden. He has a charming smile and he often laughed at Trump’s falsehoods. He would shake his head at lies and I think he was convincing. Trump just seemed desperate, rude and pompous. He is a big baby and a bully. Joe Biden was presidential, I thought.
Thank you, Dr HCR! You’re the Best.
Thanks for that clear outline. It was kind of hard to put it all in line like that. I felt a little punch-drunk, I think.
I wasn’t super happy about Biden having to dip into the mud a little, but when you’re trying to push a pig out of the barn, you’re going to get a little shit on you. The trick is to keep it to a minimum so people can still recognize you.
The heartbreaking nature of that debacle was inevitable. Our president has reduced the office and our national morale to record lows and in order to rise up, Biden had to grab the focus on that same level. Now that he has waved some of the attention away from Trump (Hello? Over here?!) he can move on in the next debates to a more civilized, higher plane. He proved himself as a brawler if need be, now he must remind us what a true leader the President always used to be.
I was pretty relieved when it was over, though. I got a tummy ache just watching.
what a wonderful analogy about the pig.....although he did forget his lipstick tonight
Love your pig/barn analogy
Perfect wasn’t it? 🐷🐷🐷🐽
Thank you, Heather.
I felt assaulted myself after watching the entire debacle. I screamed at my TV—multiple times—cut the mic!
I also wanted fact checks—possible perhaps with a 4 or 5 minute time delay. Or better yet, with as Rachel Maddow tweeted: Perhaps we could also debate by mail.
No way should the American people ever again be subjected to this kind of abuse.
I watched the NYT live stream that had both comments from reporters and live fact-checking. It made that food fight with words much more bearable to watch.
Kathleen, I’m hoping the Oct 15 & 22 debates are either cancelled in their entirety or fact checked on live TV. If neither happens—thanks to your tip—I will watch via a live-streaming, fact-checking service.
If I was advising Joe Biden, I'd say,
"Boss, that's the last time you get on a public stage with Donald Trump. Don't give him another free opportunity to continue to tear the country apart."
McConnell? Barr? Lindsay Graham? Do you "men" have something to say about what happened last night? You're OK with Trump's behavior?
You got your judges, Mitch. What more do you want that's worth what Trump is doing to the country?
FOR GOD'S SAKE SAY SOMETHING!!!!!
I've just watched the debate that I recorded last night and am very glad I did. I'm not so shocked as one has become inured to Trump's stupidities. In fact, I'm quite happy about the debate as it showed Biden to be REAL and confirmed Trump for what he is.... a danger to American democracy. Biden is not just an "anything but Trump" candidate. He is a decent, balanced man who can remain calm under "difficult" circumstances and still sound reasonable and intelligent. He has his shortcomings, but so do we all, but he "bearded the bear" in his own lair and came away with his skin better than intact and a new confidence for the future. He showed that he is there for all the people. This might not discourage the diehards on the extreme right but it is reason for optimism for everybody else
Honestly, of all the pundits out there tonight, Bill Kristol said it best; Biden should spend the rest of the campaign season having town halls with the American People not spending 90 minutes per debate in a free for all fending off the verbal slop of an undignified, bullying incompetent lout.
Thanks, as always, HCR, for your analysis as well as posting your sources. I didn't have the stomach to watch much live commentary afterwards, though I did read a bit of analyses and the NYT fact check before I finally conked out. Oy.
You missed Chris Christie, who “prepped” trump, saying the obligatory (for a Repub) Biden wasn’t that good. That’s when i said good night.
Ugh! I intentionally watched on Cspan so I wouldn't have to watch with creeps like Christy. It's bad enough PBS had Gary Abernathy on a panel. I did watch a bit of the Lincoln Project analysis after the fact. They were brutally spot on. And hilarious.
I watched on MSNBC for that reason. And when I looked at the commentary on ABC and CNN, both Chris Christie and Rick Santorum wouldn’t say anything bad about tRump except he was “too hot”. Then they both talked about Biden “faltering “.
Disgusting. Republican lack of respect for the American people is unpardonable.
Thank you, Heather. Your report, and the others I've read this morning, make me glad I live in Germany and was in bed asleep while this took place. I don't plan on going on-line t watch the full event. My absentee vote is already cast, received, signature & registration checked, and waiting to be counted with the rest on Nov. 3.
Though your letters often bring us shocking and alarming news, they also bring us hope. I am ready at this point to limit my national political news to your letters. By doing that I have a chance to retain my sanity until Trump is blown out of office by a tidal wave of opposition in the election.
HCR was quoted in The NY Times! I LOVE that!!
At other moments, though, Biden conveyed his ideas clearly. “Biden made the debate about the country and the American people, not about Trump,” the historian Heather Cox Richardson wrote in her newsletter. “While Trump listed his own grievances, Biden spoke to the camera, asking Americans what they needed, what they think.” He behaved as many previous presidential candidates, of both parties, have during debates.
One thing that was very clear last night was that Joe Biden was raised to respect other people, not to bully, not to raise his voice in anger, to treat people with respect, to listen to other people, to take turns and wait for his, and - in summary - to live by the golden rule. It was equally clear that Donald Trump was not.
First election poll worker here. Stepped up in an area where Republicans outnumber Democrats 2:1. At training, our SOE made clear: if Republican Poll Watchers behave during the General Election like they did at the Primary, she will be throwing them out of the room!
I was wondering exactly HOW are his supporters going to "ensure" there is no fraud going on? Do they think they're going to be able to hang around the polling places and look over voters' or poll workers' shoulders??? Hello??? You vote, you leave. Period.
I wondered about that, too. "Hello???" is right!
In Massachusetts, I was, first, a poll worker for a couple of years and and then a poll warden for two elections. We had the occasional watcher, but they were never allowed within the precinct's actual voting area. They were ABSOLUTELY not allowed near the ballot machines, nor were they allowed to talk to any voters in the room. I had to have one booted because he broke that last rule. In many states also, voters are not allowed to wear anything political while in the voting area. I enjoyed the work then, but I would not enjoy it now. I thought about volunteering, but I am now in my 70s, and it seems foolish at this COVID moment in any case.
I wondered about that, too. Hello??? is right!
An abusive spectacle underscoring how deeply disturbed he is. I had to leave. We are all unwitting survivors of his domestic abuse.
I set my alarm for 2:40am so that I could watch the “debate” live here in Germany.
This morning I’m a zombie, but I couldn’t miss it because so much is at stake in this election and being away from home in this time of such churning, roiling trouble is painful. I feel as if I am being prevented from coming to the aid of a family member who is being attacked by an intruder. Unfortunately, last night’s event was a violent display of just how wicked that intruder is and how much my country is at risk.
This group and you, Professor, are a balm and I know there are millions of people in the country who are in the process of voting or will vote in person on November 3 to rid of us this scourge. But I remain concerned.
He will call on his supporters, many of them armed and infused with his distemper, and they will take to the streets to intimidate voters while voting is taking place, and afterwards cause enough unrest to justify the use of extraordinary measures to halt the counting of ballots, seize them and force the courts to intervene. He is counting on the courts as a backstop and he is counting on the Party of Trump in Congress to settle the matter.
Someone here suggested that Biden should refuse to attend the two remaining debates and instead, conduct town hall meetings to answer voters’ questions: I second that idea. There is nothing to be gained from giving Trump more free airtime to rant uncontrollably – nothing. Last night the entire world saw him clearly for the unrestrained ego in a big blue suit that he is.
Last night felt like a fever dream - I’m going to take a nap!
R, Stuart and Dan—I’m envious of your living abroad! We’re you prescient?
No, love makes you do some strange things sometimes! I've been here now for nearly 25 years.....watching and hoping that things get a whole lot better in the country where the other half of my heart belongs.
What Stuart said ...
That’s the second autocorrect of were to we’re. Damn.
Mary Trump talked in her book about Trump being abused and neglected by his parents, particularly his father, as a child. Understand neglect is just one of many forms of abuse.
Those who have worked or volunteered in the field of intimate partner abuse understand the cycle of abuse that passes from one generation to the next. For those who witness domestic or intimate partner abuse or are abused themselves have very strong tendencies to become abusers themselves. There are many forms of abuse, physical violence is only one of them. However, physical violence is rarely the first or only form of abuse. It is important to understand that abuse is all about one person exercising an imbalance in power to control others. The abuse may take many forms. It can be emotional, financial, sexual, control of friendships and associations, control of freedom of movement outside the home, verbal abuse or control, restrictions on freedom of thought, and yes also physical violence. In the U.S. it is far more prevalent than most realize. Statistics show that approximately 1 in 4 women experience intimate partner abuse at some point in their life.
Breaking the cycle of abuse to prevent it passing from one generation to the next is critically important. Hence the importance of domestic violence prevention programs and education as well as shelters to afford separation of victims from abusers.
With this knowledge and returning to what we witnessed last evening and, in fact, throughout Trump’s first term and family history it is easy to recognize an abuser personality. Recall the textbook definition of an abuser. It is someone who uses an imbalance of power to control others. The abuser will use whatever form of power or control available to them to exert that control over others. Frequently those efforts to control others will go through cycles of escalation until those the abuser seeks to control submit to their authority and power.
With that understanding it should be easy to recognize what we witnessed and why I call it abuse and classify Trump as a classic example of an abusive personality. I also hope all understand how dangerous it is to invest the level of power and authority available to the President of the United States to anyone with an abusive personality disorder.
I'm worried that last night we saw DT and his malignant narcissistic personality disorder enter the end stage of that condition. The best example is Jim Jones getting 800 people to commit suicide by drinking the arsenic laced Kool-Aid. With the power of the Presidency behind him this is quite scary. I hope the Pentagon has plans for a whole bunch of scenarios!
It's a personality disorder that's abusive, but also the aspect of Narcissistic Personality Disorder was on ample display last night. Everything has to be about HIM. Everything is secondary to HIM. If he doesn't get his way, then he becomes abusive and bullies. The man is an analyst's nightmare. (I'm no psychiatrist or psychologist, but I've been a voice teacher for many years and that's pretty close! I know nuts when I see them.)
It is important to understand how dangerous it is to invest the awesome power of the U.S. Presidency in a man with an abusive personality disorder. What we witnessed last night and throughout his first term are classic examples of an abuser. This is so dangerous. Incidentally, but also importantly, this also explains his racist, white supremacist, and misogynistic tendencies and total absence of empathy. These are all characteristics of abusers.
And Biden struck a very sensitive nerve when he had a comeback after 45 dismissed Biden's college education. Biden remarked about him being smart. That was the one time I saw frighteningly real fear and even danger in 45's eyes. Most of 45's talk all night was bombast, but that moment was truly stark.