I made it a point NOT to watch the debates. I assumed they'd be a shitshow, so I read a book on my Kindle about Socialism (how's that for irony?) and went to bed. I woke up around 2am and couldn't go back to sleep so I went online. Whereupon I hear Dana Bash saying "that was not a debate: that was a shitshow." Told ya.
I made it a point NOT to watch the debates. I assumed they'd be a shitshow, so I read a book on my Kindle about Socialism (how's that for irony?) and went to bed. I woke up around 2am and couldn't go back to sleep so I went online. Whereupon I hear Dana Bash saying "that was not a debate: that was a shitshow." Told ya.
I do not see why Biden bothered with this nonsense. It is like mud wrestling with a pig: you always lose, you get dirty, and the pig likes it. What disturbs me most of all is that most of the earlier presidential debates -- Nixon/Kennedy in 1960, Reagan/Mondale in 1980, Clinton/Bush/Perot in 1988 -- seem positively Ciceronian by comparison. I don't think that it's intellectual snobbery -- at least I hope it isn't -- to lament this as a type of culpable ignorance on the part of the American electorate. How do we stand for this? Can we not even notice it anymore?
It is important to keep the fire burning for Liberal Republican Democracy, and not only vote but organize and be politically active in whatever way one can. The struggle will go on long after all this mishegoss is finished. But there is also something a little disingenuous in saying that we cannot let Donald Trump undermine our faith in the American experiment. and American institutions. The American experiment was on life support long before 45 came upon the scene and, with a talent characteristic of able con-men, ripped all the IV tubes out.
Biden promises us an interregnum of calm while we take deep breaths and start getting things to work again. And boy, that would be a relief! But the interregnum can't be too long. The problems that eat away at our trust in US institutions will remain. Biden needs to realize he is a transitional figure. And frankly, I don't think his shoving his party's progressive wing aside in this farcical debate helped much -- he needs the Sanders/Warren/Squad wing of the party to help establish the cool resting place the polity needs so badly. But Biden is a stopgap and a temporary bulwark, and I hope he realizes that Trump is just the advance wave of illiberal, undemocratic, unrepublican authoritarian force, and there are other aspiring demagogues far more cool and collected than Trump who are just as bad or worse. "President Tucker Carlson" is a prospect that sets my teeth on edge.
In short, the problem isn't just "them" -- the rich and powerful elites, even though they bear a larger measure of blame. As Walt Kelly's Pogo cartoon once said: "we have seen the enemy and he is us." We got us into this mess by inattention, thinking with our adrenal glands instead of our brains, pettiness, and a devotion to a uniquely asocial and apolitical individualism, the cult of wealth and fame. "Exceptionalism" is the original sin of the USA. We must dispense with it. Otherwise the shitshow will get even messier.
I had a client yesterday say to me she wasn’t going to vote because she’s just sick of the whole thing and then a couple of sentences later she commented “I don’t know how we got into this mess in the first place” and I looked at her and said “because people like you didn’t vote”! She said, “you’re right. I’m going to vote”.
Laura, your statement "The American experiment was on life support long before 45 came upon the scene and, with a talent characteristic of able con-men, ripped all the IV tubes out." was similar to something I posted a few days ago. Trump has brought this to a head, but he did not start it. Where we are now has been simmering on the back burner for quite some time. We collectively have to work through this, but there can be no resting on the laurels right now. There is too much that needs attention and too many entities out in the wings waiting to tear it apart again. His statement to the Proud Boys (and only them!) proves exactly where we are and what we will face if our current climate of distrust and exclusivity continues. I don't envy anyone trying to wrap their arms around this mess and make some sense of it, but we all have to work to get well, if that is even possible at this point. I think it is a shame we have allowed ourselves to get here.
I absolutely agree, Trump is a symptom of where we've come to. Some through cynicism, some through exhaustion. Still, this is too important to let lie.
The old quote about "All it takes for evil to succeed is for men of good will to do nothing" (off the top of my head, but gets the point), was never truer than today.
We don't have time for hand wringing. Once Biden wins, we must get to work. It will be a slog, but the alternative is unthinkable.
“It is like mud wrestling with a pig: you always lose, you get dirty, and the pig likes it.” This is more than great! Funny in a world that certainly is not. Thank you for your synopsis...it hits right on the nail head!
Laura, i think this is possibly the most coherent, intelligent and well annotated comment I have read on this site. If HCR ever decides to take a break, maybe you could fill in. I have read it twice and enjoyed it thoroughly.
I agree with much of what you have said. I consider myself of the left but being of late middle age, I've seen enough of this country's political yin and yang to find the threat of left-side abandonment annoying. Politics is a long game and nobody who is serious about our future would be off hand about the chance of Trump and his crew of thieves and fascists getting a second term. We can have our fights with Biden and the moderates but first we have to do what we can to insure that he won't be repeated.
I'm less concerned about Tucker Carlson than I am about Tom Cotton and Josh Hawley.
I made it a point NOT to watch the debates. I assumed they'd be a shitshow, so I read a book on my Kindle about Socialism (how's that for irony?) and went to bed. I woke up around 2am and couldn't go back to sleep so I went online. Whereupon I hear Dana Bash saying "that was not a debate: that was a shitshow." Told ya.
I do not see why Biden bothered with this nonsense. It is like mud wrestling with a pig: you always lose, you get dirty, and the pig likes it. What disturbs me most of all is that most of the earlier presidential debates -- Nixon/Kennedy in 1960, Reagan/Mondale in 1980, Clinton/Bush/Perot in 1988 -- seem positively Ciceronian by comparison. I don't think that it's intellectual snobbery -- at least I hope it isn't -- to lament this as a type of culpable ignorance on the part of the American electorate. How do we stand for this? Can we not even notice it anymore?
It is important to keep the fire burning for Liberal Republican Democracy, and not only vote but organize and be politically active in whatever way one can. The struggle will go on long after all this mishegoss is finished. But there is also something a little disingenuous in saying that we cannot let Donald Trump undermine our faith in the American experiment. and American institutions. The American experiment was on life support long before 45 came upon the scene and, with a talent characteristic of able con-men, ripped all the IV tubes out.
Biden promises us an interregnum of calm while we take deep breaths and start getting things to work again. And boy, that would be a relief! But the interregnum can't be too long. The problems that eat away at our trust in US institutions will remain. Biden needs to realize he is a transitional figure. And frankly, I don't think his shoving his party's progressive wing aside in this farcical debate helped much -- he needs the Sanders/Warren/Squad wing of the party to help establish the cool resting place the polity needs so badly. But Biden is a stopgap and a temporary bulwark, and I hope he realizes that Trump is just the advance wave of illiberal, undemocratic, unrepublican authoritarian force, and there are other aspiring demagogues far more cool and collected than Trump who are just as bad or worse. "President Tucker Carlson" is a prospect that sets my teeth on edge.
In short, the problem isn't just "them" -- the rich and powerful elites, even though they bear a larger measure of blame. As Walt Kelly's Pogo cartoon once said: "we have seen the enemy and he is us." We got us into this mess by inattention, thinking with our adrenal glands instead of our brains, pettiness, and a devotion to a uniquely asocial and apolitical individualism, the cult of wealth and fame. "Exceptionalism" is the original sin of the USA. We must dispense with it. Otherwise the shitshow will get even messier.
I had a client yesterday say to me she wasn’t going to vote because she’s just sick of the whole thing and then a couple of sentences later she commented “I don’t know how we got into this mess in the first place” and I looked at her and said “because people like you didn’t vote”! She said, “you’re right. I’m going to vote”.
Keep saying it Elaine! To everyone & anyone who utters those words "I'm not going to vote"! Americans need to understand that is no longer an option!
Hurray for you!
Laura, your statement "The American experiment was on life support long before 45 came upon the scene and, with a talent characteristic of able con-men, ripped all the IV tubes out." was similar to something I posted a few days ago. Trump has brought this to a head, but he did not start it. Where we are now has been simmering on the back burner for quite some time. We collectively have to work through this, but there can be no resting on the laurels right now. There is too much that needs attention and too many entities out in the wings waiting to tear it apart again. His statement to the Proud Boys (and only them!) proves exactly where we are and what we will face if our current climate of distrust and exclusivity continues. I don't envy anyone trying to wrap their arms around this mess and make some sense of it, but we all have to work to get well, if that is even possible at this point. I think it is a shame we have allowed ourselves to get here.
I absolutely agree, Trump is a symptom of where we've come to. Some through cynicism, some through exhaustion. Still, this is too important to let lie.
The old quote about "All it takes for evil to succeed is for men of good will to do nothing" (off the top of my head, but gets the point), was never truer than today.
We don't have time for hand wringing. Once Biden wins, we must get to work. It will be a slog, but the alternative is unthinkable.
Thank you!
“It is like mud wrestling with a pig: you always lose, you get dirty, and the pig likes it.” This is more than great! Funny in a world that certainly is not. Thank you for your synopsis...it hits right on the nail head!
Laura, i think this is possibly the most coherent, intelligent and well annotated comment I have read on this site. If HCR ever decides to take a break, maybe you could fill in. I have read it twice and enjoyed it thoroughly.
Thank you very much.
I agree with much of what you have said. I consider myself of the left but being of late middle age, I've seen enough of this country's political yin and yang to find the threat of left-side abandonment annoying. Politics is a long game and nobody who is serious about our future would be off hand about the chance of Trump and his crew of thieves and fascists getting a second term. We can have our fights with Biden and the moderates but first we have to do what we can to insure that he won't be repeated.
I'm less concerned about Tucker Carlson than I am about Tom Cotton and Josh Hawley.
Or Pence.
Excellent comment, Laura!