I had planned to post a picture tonight, but this evening Rolling Stone dropped an exclusive, blockbuster story from reporter Hunter Walker that demands attention.
As a North Carolinian, I want to apologize to the world for Meadows, DeJoy, Cawthorn, and others, but I can't because they are responsible for their own actions - I can only continue to oppose them and try to be part of a more inclusive, just, loving and equitable nation and world.
AND I hope they ALL go to jail, included the 45th President.
Living in Texas, I certainly can't be critical of what is happening in other states! What bothers me is all the Republicans complicit in buying into the lies and producing anti-democratic legislation. Where is their courage, their integrity, their backbones? They aren't even calling out the intimidation and death threats that should not be tolerated in any civilized society.
Cathy, we need to stop being so naive as to expect courage and integrity from Republicans. With rare exceptions (Liz Cheney, Adam Kinzinger), they have none, and they’re just fine with that. As far as the GOP goes, courage and integrity are for chumps. They think we’re fools for expecting either from them. It’s all about amassing power.
I hear you, JR. Yes I think the Republican Party is irredeemable now and needs to disappear. Even heard a commentator talking about going to a multi-party government. I think that would be a good thing. I'm with John Adams that the worst evil to befall the Constitution would be the two party system. When people ask me what party I belong to I say the Synergists. Multiple perspectives lead to better solution for all. And I'd measured the country by a Well-Being Index rather than GNP.
Like Boebert, TFG's chosen candidate for the US Senate seat Richard Burr currently holds is a gun shop owner named Budd. The GOP, NRA, and other forces recruit from the extremes of their pools.
We need to clean up WNC for sure. Don’t agree about jail for 45, would be bad precedent. I’d settle for conviction and commutation of sentence without pardon.
My brother spent over a year in LEAVENWORTH (sent from a NYC courtroom!) for refusing induction in the military in the early 70’s. Seeing trump get fair and equal treatment under the law and incarcerated for his crimes, if found guilty, just might take away a teeny amount of the pain in seeing our principled, non-violent son/brother shackled and transported across state lines to a maximum security federal prison (cheap and easy to transport “peaceniks”).
Thanks for letting me vent. I know this may sound petty and quid pro quo-ish, but BECAUSE trump was President makes it all the more important to enforce the laws and see all the accusations he faces to a fair and legal end.
I respect your brother's choice and only regret that he had to do his 1+ year at Ft. Leavenworth. (In the early 1970's, Leavenworth was more of a dungeon, I believe.) I was in the army in the late 60's and serving in a highly classified unit. We were warned that if we spoke ONE word about what we did, we could get 20 years in Leavenworth, a pretty scary prospect. And that potential punishment was in effect for an additional 30 years AFTER we got out of service.
trump's crimes are far, far more deserving of punishment than your brother's stand on principle. It seems that in the U.S., the amount of "justice" the accused/convicted person receives is based on how much money that person has in order to pay lawyers. trump should get 20 years at Leavenworth plus returning with interest all the funds he looted while in office. And then there's Jarvanka. If they avoid penalties and punishment, then we still have a very unjust system.
I don't think so. The bad precedent has been letting presidents and other high rollers off the hook without penalties. After Watergate, Pres. Ford let ex-president Nixon escape legal penalties for his perjury and other crimes connected to Watergate. Ford said it was "for the good of the country." Pres. Bush Sr. let the Iran-Contra criminals all off the hook, saying it was so the country "can move forward." Well, we didn't move forward. The American public saw another clear example of the higher the position of the criminal, the less they would pay for their crimes. And so it goes....
A little item the participating members of Congress might want to review.
Fourteenth Amendment
Section 3
No Person shall be a Senator or Representative in Congress, or elector of President and Vice-President, or hold any office, civil or military, under the United States, or under any State, who, having previously taken an oath, as a member of Congress, or as an officer of the United States, or as a member of any State legislature, or as an executive or judicial officer of any State, to support the Constitution of the United States, shall have engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the same, or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof. But Congress may by a vote of two-thirds of each House, remove such disability.
I become more and more aware that the Legislative Branch of our Government is beyond corrupt and useless. They have inured themselves against the consequences of their own actions. Through their web of complex and obtuse procedures they have obscured any accountability for their actions. They have enriched themselves endlessly through consorting with self interested lobbyists.
Their craving for self preservation and undiluted power has led us to this point.
Not true. Not an easy task to fix, but the corruption seemed to be more widespread in the judicial branch under the former. And progress being made. I do not know if you saw Atty General Garland square off with the likes of Gymmie Jordan last week at a committee hearing, but order is being restored, in my opinion.
I respectfully invite you to take a long view of what Congress has wrought in it's continued obstruction of Democratic procedures and values over the course of decades.
I saw the Attorney General with Jordan. He did a good job.
And as I have said before. Name calling became popularized under Trump. Can we please do better than him in our political discourse and not name call our opponents?
Right now, it benefits my state of mind to look at the short view and the damage done and length of repair.
And name calling was popularized far longer ago than that done by the former.
But I agree with you about political discourse. It is difficult for me to refrain when it comes to the likes of Gymmie. But thank you for the reminder.
Yes, the Legislative Branch of our Government is beyond corrupt and useless in many, many ways. However, Heather Elowe has misinterpreted Section 3 of the 14th Amendment
"But Congress may by a vote of two-thirds of each House, remove such disability."
I may be mistaken but I believe that sentence means that a 2/3 vote of each House can remove the disability (prohibition) of a person seeking to hold any of the mentioned offices and who "has engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the same, or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof."
2/3 vote. In each House expanded and explained:
"The right to remove disabilities imposed by this section was exercised by Congress at different times on behalf of enumerated individuals.1 In 1872, the disabilities were removed, by a blanket act, from all persons except Senators and Representatives of the Thirty-sixth and Thirty-seventh Congresses, officers in the judicial, military and naval service of the United States, heads of departments, and foreign ministers of the United States.2 Twenty-six years later, Congress enacted that the disability imposed by section 3 . . . incurred heretofore, is hereby removed.3"
2/3 vote in both Houses, (Chambers of Congress) to remove the disability thus allowing them to hold office at the State and/or Federal level again. As it stands today, Republicans convicted of insurrection/rebellion wouldn't stand a chance of having the disability removed. Not necessarily true down the road.
I was in the process of replying basically the same thing above today (the 27th) and stopped myself, and you are correct: the 2/3rds vote allowed those formerly disqualified to serve, again, as part of Reconstruction (as in the case of those who fought for the Confederacy).
"It states that a two-thirds majority vote in Congress is required to allow public officials who had engaged in rebellion to regain the rights of American citizenship and hold government or military office."
It seems that it would permanently remove the disability unless the person engaged in an act of rebellion again. I would definitely defer to a constitutional lawyer to get an accurate read.
Who among the Republicans has honor? IMHO, unless a Republican proclaims publically his denunciation of Jan. 6 and Trump's incitement of it, he has no honor. Where is the honor in betraying the republic? The facts are as clear as the nose on your face. Not to stand up for the good of the country is a betrayal. The survival of our democracy is at stake. As Angus King said recently, we have been thrust -- "those of us in this body—into a moment when the fate of the American experiment hangs in the balance.” If it fails, it will be because of the Republican senators. They have the power.
Congress was mentioned, not just Republicans. My comment included Democrats and Independents and yes, a few Republicans. So please do not lecture me about honor.
Sorry, Christine, for sounding like I was lecturing. I'm no one to be lecturing you or anyone here. I'm so shocked at the Republican silence, even with Cheney leading the way, so shocked and very worried! Just hoping and praying the DOJ or one of the many suits against him will remove him from the political scene.
We certainly do have a lot of people of honor in Congress. Judiciary Committee head Jamie Raskin (D-MD) is #1, IMO. But although I disagree strongly with both of them on immigration an issue I feel strongly about (I think the numbers need to be greatly reduced), Nancy Pelosi and my Congressperson, Katherine Clark, are certainly people of honor, as are Liz Cheney and Adam Kinzinger, and there are plenty of others.
Exactly. I asked my Congressional House Rep if his Nay vote on holding Brannon accountable for ignoring a legal subpoena means I can do the same. I said I’d invoke his vote as my legal justification. Haven’t heard back yet.
It isn't impossible if the plot is clear and they go home at Thanksgiving and find out $$$ isn't going to be forthcoming for the tainted....it would give the Republicans a chance to run someone with a clean slate. Perhaps saving their party.
I just read the Rolling Stone article (https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/exclusive-jan-6-organizers-met-congress-white-house-1245289/) on congressional involvement in setting up the Jan 6 insurrection, and I'm incandescently furious. I believe the 14th Amendement to the Constitution, Section 3, needs to be enforced against these individuals in a timely fashion. They have engaged in insurrection against the United States government, and should be removed from Congress and be barred from further participation. They pose an ongoing danger to the republic.
Don’t forget a few of our favorite senators that may also have been involved in the insurrection planning- Cruz, Hawley & someone I’m forgetting. Those members charged would be prohibited from voting to remove, might make the 2/3 more do’able.
What I'm reading from section 3 above is that evidence of insurrection implies automatic dismissal, and it takes 2/3 of each house to KEEP them in office.
OR allow them to hold office (State/Federa)l in the future. I'm pretty sure they have to be charged, tried and convicted of insurrection or rebellion before they are removed from office. Of course if an elected official committed a murder/assassination during an act of insurrection/rebellion they'd certainly be ineligible to hold office from that point forward, right?
Wait. - doesn't it mean the congress critters who engaged in planning the insurrection are automatically OUT of office unless 2/3s of each House lets them stay? With Democratic majorities in both Houses, that "disability" (being an insurrectionist) shall not be removed, but the insurrectionists themselves will. Am I reading this correctly?!
"The report in Rolling Stone raises serious questions about the participation of members of Congress in efforts to subvert the Constitution through violence. If true, we need more than a congressional investigation and a damning report. We need criminal investigations and prosecutions, where appropriate—ASAP. If you have an opportunity to interact with members of Congress who represent you, ask what they are doing to pressure the administration to prosecute the leaders of the insurrection. Time is of the essence. The elections of 2022 are hard upon us, and we need the deterrent effect of criminal prosecutions to dissuade similar attempts in the future."
It forbids them from holding office at the Federal and State levels. It applies to those who have (previously) held office at the State or Federal levels and taken the oath to defend the constitution.
MaryPat, here's what I found on this.....Article I, Section 5, of the United States Constitution provides that "Each House [of Congress] may determine the Rules of its proceedings, punish its members for disorderly behavior, and, with the concurrence of two-thirds, expel a member." Since 1789, the Senate has expelled only fifteen of its entire membership.
Well, well, well. Sweet clause. Perfect postscript for today, Daria. No chance to filibuster treason. Reminder of the scope of the Constitution. Amazing.
Daria I’m not going to hold my breath. But with that said would it be a good trade off for some to Vote for the Fair and Free voting we all are terrified of losing ? I don’t like them getting away with what they did. But if Biden gets his way that just might be his Ace card ? Would have loved to been a fly on the wall this weekend in Del.
I knew there was no way in the world the insurrectionsts could have stormed the Capitol the way they did without the aid of politicians providing them blueprints.
Like the example of Facebook, which is destabilizing not just the U.S, but the world's largest democracy, India (and others), our country is being attacked from within by unaccountable, underregulated corporate behemoths and politicians who owe their loyalty not to the people who elected them, but a narcissistic madman who would see this country destroyed rather than tell the truth, and corporations more concerned about their bottom line than the survival of the U.S., which has granted them such extravagant largesse.
Prosecute and jail every politician who is complicit in this madness.
Too true. I can't decide whether "puppeteers pulling strings" or "chess masters with pawns to spare" is the better metaphor, but if we could pull the curtain back, I'm sure we'd find the Kochs and other such monied interests cackling with glee.
Yes. Let us not forget that Representative James Clyburn, who spoke vehemently on camera immediately after the attack, was questioning HOW the insurrectionists found their way to his secondary work office, which was "hidden" in the labyrinthian hallways, when his PUBLIC office was right there in plain sight, with his NAME on the door. Let us not forget the actual video footage of the woman giving detailed directions about which doors to enter, which doors led to what, etc. DURING the insurrection. Let us not forget that the Capitol was breached via one unprotected door - that the leaders of the mob went directly to and entered there. Let us not forget that groups of unidentified people were allowed inside the Capitol to TOUR it on January 5th, when the Capitol had been closed to visitors because of Covid. That this attack was coordinated from WITHIN the halls of Congress is obvious, even to someone who has no background in law enforcement. Those are not coincidences.
And I continue to maintain that the pipe bomber was a woman...probably someone working for Greene or Boebert, if not one of them.
Gee, Ellen... and that's not all we need to remember, such as our doctor's appointments and to have some fun. Why do you think the pipe bomber was a woman?
I have watched those videos over and over and I think the person moves more like a woman than a man. Plus h/she stopped to "rest" on a bench. It seems to me that whoever she/he might be, the area was not unfamiliar.
Perhaps the people who are starting to "sing" and are pissed about being abandoned by their fearless leader will finally start making a dent in those who still worship DiJiT. Why those talking with the committee and Rolling Stone would have needed a blanket pardon if what they were doing was legal should have given them pause at the start, but that requires at least a modicum of rational thought process.
To simply go to the Capital and even get past the Barriers was a crime. Period ! I had read there was 250K there ? My first thought was, funny enough, how could so many miss the time form work, pay for food and lodging, fuel ? You just have to figure it had some planning.
Yup. Why were they talking pardons? Seemed like a stupid thing to admit to if irrelevant. If Trump (and they) believed he would succeed why would a pardon be needed? I have to ask...a pardon for what? If they were arrested by the police before the inauguration - for doing what exactly? Peacefully assembling?
Ms. Woods. Thank you for this astute post. "Stupid" is fair. But it would be more precise (meaning more accurate) to say that that these acolytes of TFG, who now purport to be innocent dupes, knew from the moment that they were promised pardons that the undertaking here would not be anything remotely resembling a simple protest, protected by the first amendment, but a criminal undertaking. So the admission, while surely stupid, is not "irrelevant." Moreover, their signing on with Trump in the first instance attests to their criminal proclivities, and, while racist and nativist views are not, of course, criminal in and of themselves, their signing onto Trump attests to those views as well. These "innocent dupes" merit no sympathy, only contempt.
Oh I think it was very relevant. They were trying to make it sound like they they thought an offer of a pardon was irrelevant because they thought they weren't doing anything wrong.
I thought the same thing. As I think more about it what comes to mind for me is that trumpism and the associated conspiracy theories are all part of the game. Planning is being treated like a war in a sense. It is very exciting and adventurous to feel as though one is a real part of a revolution. A part of something big. I would have a hard time believing none of the planners wouldn’t have at least paused for a moment when pardons were mentioned but I can believe that any bending of the rules could be rationalized under the rug out of excitement, the feeling of being important and the fear of how bad the other side is. What that leaves me wondering is, what do these people think they are going to get if they win their war? There is no policy and there doesn’t seem to be anything available on the other side except a more dysfunctional government.
Robert your words just made something clarify in my mind. The organizers thought they were doing nothing wrong. However, they knew if they succeeded there would be no repercussions for their actions because they would have won. If they failed, they may have been convinced they would be prosecuted in retaliation for just protesting because Trump firmly believes everyone against him should suffer hugely. They were told Democrats would make up charges and they would need pardons even though they were doing nothing wrong.
Basically it was the business as usual manipulation by the Republicans. They feed conspiracies and propaganda to the vulnerable.
I could be way off on this thought but I haven’t been able to work out any other explanation for why they needed pardons. Unless they actually planned serious death and violence.
"..what do these people think they are going to get if they win their war?" That, to me, is the basic question I m boiling down to for any Trump supporter I might engage with. (Some Trump people I know, seem to enjoy the anger and the fight more than that they believe in anything. As an example, one sent me an email earlier this year angry (furious really) that the price of gas was going to rise to over$10/gallon. He also sent me a video of a friend of his driving around a fancy part of NYC where all of the stores windows were boarded up. They both were angry that BLM protests had caused this. In fact, many storefronts were boarded up due to Covid and there was an article about just that in the NYTimes well before BLM protests.) A lot of angry people in this country just looking for punching bag, it seems.)
Kim Findlay your "friend's" email reminds me of something that made me angry in June 2020 - all the people angry about "BLM" but no mention of the fact we had all seen a man tortured to death, crying "I can't breathe", calling for his dead mother, in front of a teenaged child who was taking her younger cousin to the neighborhood store for a snack. Where is the outrage over a person being killed in such a nonchalant, "I won't suffer any consequences" manner by law enforcement?
And TFG going on all the news channels claiming it was "Antifa." I went to protest because I am a mother, and I did not want such a thing to happen to ANYBODY. I had never heard of Antifa. So I didn't appreciate TFG labeling "me" and all the people around the world of good conscience who turned out to say "this is wrong."
They were told that they were the “Forgotten Ones “. Victims if you will ?Because there was a Black man in Office for 8 yrs. And ‘Who’ was trying to get that Black man Disqualified ? The Birther BS. Obama got him good at that Journalist Award Banquet. Then it was all out war. TFG was laughed at in attendance .So the Mantra was” We are going to OWN the Dems.” We all know they are Racist to their core.His Bully Pit gave them Permission to be likewise. They were none the less angry the 4 yrs he was in Office were they. Worse actually. They don’t understand that he was using them to save himself.The only thing that was really important to TFG was the Tax cut’s and Deregulation. Always been his gripes. And to go back to thinking about TFG and Racism actually his favorite color is green and it matters not Race, Religion, or Creed if you got a lot and he can get it from you .He sent them to Our House. They wouldn’t be invited to step a foot on a blade of his house.And the fools aren’t questioning where 26-28 Trillion $( what ever the crazy amount is ?) Is ? Think of all the programs he dumped right out the gate ? Then CoVid ? If there are homeless Repubs. they may want to Rethink what they’er doing . He’s just mad because even though he was President after Mr O. He didn’t get two terms.I think the only thing that could bring him down is some kind of charges as a regular citizen . I had a woman tell me the other day that she didn’t care about any Repub. policy’s . Just stop abortion . I could not speak.
I want to know where somewhere around 26 Trillion $ went ? I hear different numbers ? Was it the “1 for you, 2 for me game ?” America, the largest money launderer in the whole world. Britain 2 ed. Geeze.
As a rational person you assume others have the interest in & capacity for rational thought but, look at that heinous group of miscreants- mtg, Cahill, Gaetz, Bobert, gohmer, do they seem rational at all? Someone said “pardon” and they probably thought someone burped and was being exceptionally polite.
I have a perfect cat print on the hardwood floor in the living room. He stepped in paint & left multiple prints. (My fault for not putting him in another room while I painted.) I cleaned all but the perfect one up & left it to make me smile at how silly life is sometimes.
I would have done the same thing. I left that red print in my floral painting mostly because red is extremely difficult to scrub out in watercolor. I am probably the only one who notices it. I learned to close the door from that day on.
Pamela, In reading your comment '...people who are starting to 'sing' and pissed...' I wondered about factionalism within DT's activists band. Why did they talk to Rolling Stone? Speaking to the press seems to be a departure. If they are going rogue, will others follow? I don't see them going our way, but the more they split, perhaps, more possible it may be to tamp down their anti-democratic movement. Robert's comment pointing to the spirit of excitement and revolutionary zeal, and I would add -- relishing the power they feel in rebellion against big government, against the power structure and the institutions grown out of it -- is very hot. The danger of their fury has not cooled as subscribers and news reports make clear. How much is planned as how much is sheer wildness -- with a sense of abandon?
Upon reflection there is no doubt in my mind that some of the insurrection army were caught up in the moment, guided by their own delusion that they would be proud for having taken some part in changing the course of history, protecting democracy, not destroying it . But that is not an excuse for the people that organized and promoted the rally, or those in the room at the White House and Willard hotel, or those that failed us during TWO impeachments! All of this leads back to Trump and members of Congress taking Russian money and Trump's pedigree...greedy, unfaithful, and narcissistic. He didn't change and they let Trump be Trump as if it was a novelty rather than a bad thing.
Martha , I agree. We can't take our eyes or minds from Trump's power and his moves. I recently read an article about him on Salon and posted excerpts of it as comment just minutes go.
Why any of these people think Trump will have their arses when he becomes dictator (according to him and them) is beyond me. This is just another of many instances of the writing being on the wall.
I ask out of ignorance, (no offence to any individuals), if any religion is rational? In Congress, we have at last count (Pew Research Center) out of 450, 175 Catholics, 43 Methodists, 50 Jewish, 10 undefined.
Belonging to a religion and practicing that religion are two entirely different things. To claim Christianity and say and do the things people like MT Greene does is abhorrent.
Remember Boebert's tweet in the midst of the insurrection: "The speaker has left the chamber"? One of my favorite people to follow on Twitter, @Angry_Staffer, pointed out this morning that the tweet "probably becomes a felony if they can prove she was involved in the planning."
I'm not an authority but it takes 2/3 of the house or Senate to expel a sitting member. It's possible that they would achieve that. I think that's why they were able to remove Nixon. They had the vote to do so. In the past I think members of Congress have usually resigned when faced with legal prosecution. Personally I have no recollection of anyone ever just being expelled. That would be interesting to know.
I cannot imagine any of those on the list would resign. McCarthy is ineffective as a leader and will double down on protecting them in order to protect himself. If they do get booted he will then claim to have cleaned up the GOP and take all the credit for himself.
I am just shocked we have not seen Jim Jordan’s name in this list. We know he’s guilty but was he only involved at the Trump level?
The list of Congress people involved reads like a list of anarchists. It is rather difficult to believe that knowing who those were that this organization is now claiming they were duped by TFG. Sounds more like they have worked with defense lawyers to come up with a plausible line of doubt.
From the R.S. article: "These two sources also helped plan a series of demonstrations that took place in multiple states around the country in the weeks between the election and the storming of the Capitol."
Who are helping coordinate anti-democracy demonstrations around the country at local school boards (in the guise of anti-mask protests, etc)? Because one can guess this is coming from the top of the GOP. Just in the last two weeks, the head of the local Repub party told his supporters to call the police on our teachers for keeping 'offending' books in their classrooms, saying “Can you imagine their shame and embarrassment when they try to explain why they were arrested to the public? This could do it. This could break them."
It's no coincidence that this is happening all over the country. These malefactors are well-funded and working overtime to destabilize society and undermine the foundations of our democracy.
Kara Hammond re: R.S. article and local assaults on education/educators and school boards
sadly yes - threats, intimidation, and ultimately violence.
They are going to drive all the educators out, (low pay and status, threats of safety, pandemic concerns and risks, inadequate supplies, overbearing and impossible legislation, parents even worse than the kids in disrespect, demeaning treatment as "baby sitters" so parents can go to work, expectations that teachers will "raise" the kids, medical and mental health problems affecting students with inadequate support or treatment, and on and on and on...)
but they won't care because they want to end the whole system of public education and those prevent born into lower socioeconomic conditions from ever achieving in the social hierarchy. (In a group discussing the book CASTE, so I may be a little triggered already.)
As a professor from age 58 to 80, I taught a major segment of a course on SOCIETAL DISCRIMINATION FROM PATRIARCHY TO THE PRESENT: the WHAT vs. the WHO, which addressed slavery and its aftermath. I shudder to think of the reaction, were I to teach this today in a number of American states. With history, who controls the teaching of the past can control the future. Stalin taught us that.
A lie told often enough becomes the truth. Vladimir Lenin
In our country the lie has become not just a moral category but a pillar of the State. Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn
Keith, raises a fundamental aspect of Democracy, which we are losing. Subscribers currently teaching in America have shared their horror about it with us.
Historian, Timothy Snyder, teacher and author knows as Keith does the antecedents of tyranny.
'What are “Memory laws”? – "Government actions designed to guide public interpretation of the past... by asserting a mandatory view of historical events, by forbidding the discussion of historical facts or interpretations..." #TruthBeTold'
'It is a perverse goal: Teachers succeed if students do not understand something.'
'This spring, memory laws arrived in America. Republican state legislators proposed dozens of bills designed to guide and control American understanding of the past. As of this writing, five states (Idaho, Iowa, Tennessee, Texas and Oklahoma) have passed laws that direct and restrict discussions of history in classrooms. The Department of Education of a sixth (Florida) has passed guidelines with the same effect. Another 12 state legislatures are still considering memory laws.'
'The particulars of these laws vary. The Idaho law is the most Kafkaesque in its censorship: It affirms freedom of speech and then bans divisive speech. The Iowa law executes the same totalitarian pirouette. The Tennessee and Texas laws go furthest in specifying what teachers may and may not say. In Tennessee teachers must not teach that the rule of law is “a series of power relationships and struggles among racial or other groups.” Nor may they deny the preamble to the Declaration of Independence, words that Thomas Jefferson presumably never intended to be part of an American censorship law. The Idaho law mentions Critical Race Theory; the directive from the Florida school board bans it in classrooms. The Texas law forbids teachers from requiring students to understand the 1619 Project. It is a perverse goal: Teachers succeed if students do not understand something.'
'But the most common feature among the laws, and the one most familiar to a student of repressive memory laws elsewhere in the world, is their attention to feelings. Four of five of them, in almost identical language, proscribe any curricular activities that would give rise to “discomfort, guilt, anguish or any other form of psychological distress on account of the individual’s race or sex.”
'History is not therapy, and discomfort is part of growing up. As a teacher, I cannot exclude the possibility, for example, that my non-Jewish students will feel psychological distress in learning how little the United States did for Jewish refugees in the 1930s. I know from my experience teaching the Holocaust that it often causes psychological discomfort for students to learn that Hitler admired Jim Crow and the myth of the Wild West. Teachers in high schools cannot exclude the possibility that the history of slavery, lynchings and voter suppression will make some non-Black students uncomfortable. The new memory laws invite teachers to self-censor, on the basis of what students might feel — or say they feel. The memory laws place censorial power in the hands of students and their parents. It is not exactly unusual for white people in America to express the view that they are being treated unfairly; now such an opinion could bring history classes to a halt.' (NY Times) Link to article below.
Timothy Snyder is the Richard C. Levin Professor of History at Yale and a permanent fellow of the Institute for Human Sciences in Vienna. He is the author of several works of European history, including Bloodlands, winner of the American Academy of Arts and Letters Literature Award, the Hannah Arendt Prize, and the Leipzig Book Prize. His most recent books are On Tyranny and The Road to Unfreedom. Link to Snyder's website below.
Fern I agree that Tim Snyder is an extraordinary, path-breaking scholar. In BLOODLANDS: Eastern Europe between Hitler and Stalin his original research highlighted that the extermination of Jews and other ‘undesirables’ commenced long before the creation of death camps. An earlier book attacked David Goldhagen’s thesis by documenting that a number of German soldiers were complicit rather than reluctant in pursuing Hitler’s extermination policy.
For me a major goal of education is to develop students’ capacity for critical thinking.This achieved by exposure to diverse historical viewpoints, discussing them, and then forming one’s own informed opinion. Restricting teaching to an emasculated curriculum results in robotic ‘learning’ rather than critical thinking. Descartes said: I THINK THEREFORE I AM.
thanks for the book recommendation Diane LeClaire, I will check it out.
Last night I participated in an online event featuring Malcolm X. They played a number of clips from his speeches (including Oxford and Berkeley). Sad, so much of what he said is completely pertinent today.
I read last night a summary of the story in the Rolling Stone that Dr. Cox Richardson posted today and had a strengthening of the feeling I’ve had over the last few days - that a dam is about to burst.
Yet, I am bothered by it. In the first place no other media outlets of repute seems to have picked it up. I know it’s a media version of “A friend of my aunt’s best friend’s chiropractor told me this” story, but still. One would think that something of this seeming magnitude would have been picked up by the media as a whole.
Next, and more important, the source said that they never had any intention of breaking into the Capitol. If this was their testimony to the House Committee, then what exactly were they and all the usual suspects actually *planning*? Presumably the January 6 rally and others.
One can argue that they wanted the rally to give powerful outside - literally outside - impetus to the political machinations of the day, which were to illegally stop the certification of the votes - looking at you Mike Pence.
On its face then, this story doesn’t live up to the label “blockbuster”. It sounds big, but radiates confusion. If they didn’t plan to storm the Capitol, then why was Gosar promising a blanket pardon from Trump? People planning rallies should not need any pardon, let alone one from such an august personage as Donald Trump. /s
Obviously it’s a bad look for House members to be assisting plans for Stop the Steal rallies. But it’s so murky I’d need a lawyer to point out to me where exactly it’s criminal. The fact is other events have happened, are fully documented and clearly more criminal than this one (Trump’s phone call to Raffensberger would be one), without being prosecuted yet.
It would take only the gentlest arm twisting, perhaps a metaphorical finger lightly placed on my willing arm, to get me to believe that these sources were lying when they said they had no intention to storm the Capitol. I am thoroughly disposed to believe that there was an immense amount of coordination between what I will generously call the “brains” of this irredeemably stupid plan and its brawn. Indeed I believe that this may well be proven beyond a shadow of a doubt by the Committee and Republicans will be scattering in all directions fleeing a suddenly sinking ship. I still hold to my gut feeling that soon the dam will break and a powerful mudslide will pour down the mountain, changing the landscape as mudslides will do. But this time it will be a political landscape that becomes unrecognizable.
But not quite yet. This is not a blockbuster. It is a tease. Or perhaps the trailer.
What this does accomplish is to tie the names of most of the big 1/6 "deniers" in Congress as having been directly involved in setting up the violence.
It was always suspicious that such a small, consistent clot of congresscritters made the most noise denying that anything had happened, in crystal-clear contradiction to the real-time televised display of the facts. It always made them look guilty. But we (and the press) have instead simply tended to write them off as stupid.
Well, this makes it pretty clear they were guilty, and it changes the complexion of their denials. Their denials now look like the panicked response of criminals who did not get caught in the robbery, but don't know if they were caught on camera.
The Business Roundtable. The US Chamber of Commerce. American Legislative Exchange Council. Clubs enjoying swinging their financial leverage (and in the case of the Federalist Society their judicial weight) toward anti-democracy pro-corporate Radical Right (authoritarian, christian fascist) interests.
The most ironic part of all of this is most of those active in the destruction of our country would truly fair the worst if our worst nightmares came to pass. SMH 🤦🏻♀️
American oligarchs, especially in the US weapons industry, would be interested in instigating more of a cold war with Russia not joining them. More do-re-me. And attorneys in the Federalist Society are invested in what's good for their money bags, I mean, oligarchs. How do you answer your question?
I ask because i dont know enough about the Federalist Society’s purpose or Russia’s “Federation” . I wonder if there is any connection or similar philosophy between them.
Sadly, many still have too much pride to accept a government "handout". It never occurs to them to see government as something we into which we all contribute for the benefit of everyone.
I am sure many of them are accepting government "handouts" but are in denial about it. Or, it's not a "handout" when they get it, they have a right to that $. But for the poor, Brown or Black people, women, the Others, it's the government dole.
My stepfather would say “I deserve it” when I asked him about being the recipient of social programs. When I asked why “others” did not he would bluster & hem & haw. When I said “you mean you deserve it because you’re white & they don’t because they’re not” he would lose his temper & resort to his usual “Shut up! You’re just another pinko commie bleeding heart liberal” insult. It always amazed me how a man who was racist in deed, thought & word and who was a member of the local KKK would become apoplectic if you said “you’re a racist” or “that’s racist”. That’s why I can’t abide lying, gaslighting or spin. Just have the backbone to own what you truly believe. And if you won’t because you know it’s repugnant, then do the work to change your beliefs.
Thank you for this. My father would go on and on about closing the borders. And this was back in the ‘90s when I visited him with the my then 18-month old. First time I’d been to visit him in his new home location, Texas. When I pointed out that’s how his dad and my maternal great-grandmother came into the country, and probably the Native Americans felt the same way about us, he muttered something about being “one of those” and that was end of conversation.
There are Federalist Society spin-offs that cover all grouos- how to disrupt a county school system, how to get soccer moms on board, college kids for disruption, etc- they created talking points, messaging campaigns, lists is books to ban, lists of “enemies”, favorable donor lists, how to talk to the media, what language to use to get their targeted group on board. It’s insane to think about what went into a whole organization plotting to take down and take apart our country. And, and, AND they are all not for profits so they get all the tax breaks and cover afforded any legit charitable org.
Well, WHERE are the voters who voted FOR her? Staying home saying nothing? I'm not talking about "protesting" here, but simply coming forward & backing her up. My other question is: since when did one person's so-called 1st Amendment right top any other person's safety from harassment & threats? I guess thats just how it is now? Period?
And come think of it - isnt it about time that people who are not parents of students in that school are barred from disrupting these meetings? A school Board meeting used to be for people who had children in school! Not someone from outside the area with an axe to grind!
It’s just a guess, but might it be the same ones who were behind the “Brooks Bros. Riot” that stopped the count in Florida (2000); or perhaps the “Tea Party Enactors” that harassed Obama’s administration (2012-2016). Of course, I’ve heard it suggested that the Democrats were the culprits, but don’t the Republicans always say that?
I wish I could provide the link, but I did read that Koch and other dark monies were behind these well-funded, well-coordinated "protests" at local school board meetings and that in many cases, the "protestors" were PAID by outside groups. Some of them weren't even parents in the school district they were "protesting."
Well, well, well, none of those names are a surprise. Just glad the truth is coming out. If Gosar promised them a blanket pardon, that means he knew to they planned to break the law. Seems to suggest intent to me.
My whole thought with that is that they will throw Godard under the bus and say he acted on his own in promising those pardons. The claim will be Trump didn’t know anything about it, never spoke to Gosar, doesn’t even know who he is.
Yep! I’m not sure how to find it but my recollection was that he was actually speaking on the floor as the mob was basically out the door or just coming up the hall. He stammers and stops and the look on his face is almost a guilty terror. I’m not sure how to describe it but I commented that “there’s something going on there in him right now…” I wish I could pull it up.
It seems from the article (Rolling Stone let me read most of it before throwing up a paywall) that the pardon was for “unrelated” previous actions that were being investigated. Wild guess here, but that might be for taking foreign money and other illegalities in connection with idjt’s inauguration. Of course, a blanket pardon would also have covered more recent lawbreaking…
I had just finished reading a summary of the Rolling Stone story when your account arrived in my email. I suspected something was up because the scenic Maine picture had not arrived yet, signaling you hadn't taken a Sunday breather.
Your account of the Rolling Stone blockbuster raises fundamental questions: Will the House Select Committee investigate members of the House? Will it call them to testify under oath, as well as members of their staffs? Seize their cell phone records and more? Most importantly, will the committee vote to recommend removing these House members from office if there's proof they violated their oaths of office?
It will be fascinating to learn of precedents for such action as the plot, shall we say, thickens at an accelerating pace.
When parts of our government is the enemy…. Can’t wait for Kevin and trump to call them super patriots. There are no words for Ginni and Clarence Thomas…
When the ship is showing strain the rats start departing. This is going to take time--because not only do the wheels of justice move exceedingly slowly, but because of the ways in which Moscow Mitch packed the judicial branch with his own minions. And of course SCOTUS, which is proving to do exactly what some of us expected they would.
A bit of legal history for all of you, as I am feeling wonkish this morning: Soon after returning from the Crusades in 1274, new king Edward I fired all the justices in both judicial benches (Common Pleas and King's Bench) except one (sorry: trying to find the documentation but Google is being stubborn and I can't remember which work I wrote that includes this info), because of complaints about corruption. Although there is some evidence that he did this as a money-making maneuver--he was broke after 4 years of war in the Holy Land and most of the justices were reinstated after paying indemnities--it still showed that he was willing to push against the tendency of the justices to do things like accept bribes. The growth of parliament as a judicial body also changed the ways in which the justices were connected to the Crown, as they sat with the representatives (they are now members of the House of Lords).
The reason I bring it up is because the whole idea of a neutral judiciary--Blind Justice--has a very long history (longer than Magna Carta, Stuart, if you were going to bring that up!) but it is very hard to achieve. It takes enormous energy and persistence to maintain systems that are not biased and prone to corruption because s*** always rises to the top of the pond. So the fact that we are still in 2021 and stuff is starting to happen might well be taken as a good sign. The only way to make sure that the charges stick is to be deliberate about the process.
Our job, as citizens, is to vote, to bring people out to vote, and to ensure that 2022 isn't a disaster for the Dems. Because if we sit on out hands and moan about how slow the process is, we will lose everything.
Thank you for this bit of English history. Justices are human and subject always to human frailties. And I agree that it takes a lot of work. I am heartened to these names out there (and not a bit surprised). It is difficult to have patience, but I would rather see these criminals nailed to the wall than slip out on a technicality.
Exactamente. If somehow this is to be the single crystallizing fact, plea, mantra, thought, campaign slogan, motivating factor….however to frame what you have explained, Linda, to consolidate every effort to preserve our democracy. Justice is slow, but there is time. More than a year before 2022 elections. Which is an opportunity for complete success by pro democracy voters.
Seems like a day to revive names of influential supporters to overturn election or planners of the insurrection…even though now they may be running for cover of the thicket…or robes of a justice. This person is said to have raised considerable funds for buses to Washington for Jan 6 “rally”. What I think it raises is conflict of interest where justice is involved.
Interesting speculation regarding the potential conflict of interest residing on the Supreme Court
Moving closer and closer to being a Partisan Conservative Sledge Hammer, the Third Leg of Governance is losing its status as Impartial Instruments of Justice
Thank you for that. She certainly seems to be above the law. And her husband is likely a toady who does her bidding. Both truths have been known for decades. Yet, her social media activity never violates “community standards.” These traitorous actors need to be called to account.
I thought Snope wrote that the Gigi Thomas bus story was false.
Claim
Virginia "Ginni" Thomas, wife of Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas, sponsored 80 buses to transport participants to the "Save America" rally on Jan. 6, 2021.
While we worry about the phony righteous indignation of the accused, let’s keep in mind that the rally was being planned as over 60 cases went through the courts showing there was no way idjt could have won. And he actually said he would walk to the Capitol with them, another of his thousands of lies. And he actually said go home in peace. We love you. Why did republicans refuse to move to the balcony when Pelosi asked them to? They knew what was coming. We watched it on tv, they lived it, and republicans still think this failure of a human being is the leader of their party and has a chance of re-election. They are as egotistical and corrupt as their fearful leader.
Thanks, Heather. Seth Abramson has been uncovering vast amounts of info on the Jan 6th insurrection. Seems other publications are now just catching up. It is all on his Substack account "Proof". He has shared some of it without subscription.
Cheerio. Glad to see another Seth Abramson reader here. It is the most perplexing thing. He probably has 90% of the info that the Insurrection committee, FBI, DOJ, mainstream media, progressive media etc. need regarding leading up to Jan 6th, Jan 6th, all the war rooms, all the people involved, the planners, funders, members of Congress, Senators and he is helped by hundreds of sources and nobody is talking about him. Finally the Washington Post gave him a mention a couple days ago. It's all there. He has dedicated life life to getting to the bottom of the bottom of the insurrection.
This Rolling Stone article is more confirmation of info already out there and there are phone records, credit card statements etc . So why are these members of Congress still afforded all that comes with being a member of Congress? It seems like the Biden admin is dragging its heels on doing what must be done!
This is a snake with many heads. It's likely the DOJ and House Select Committee's work represent the most complex, wide-ranging investigations that the federal government has ever undertaken. In the case of the House probe, some members of Congress are doing everything they can to slow or kill it. And keep in mind, much more is known about what the insurrectionists have done than has been made public.
Below, SLWeston has given us an incantation to chant every day.
Exactly. And why on earth is MTG even allowed inside that chamber? She has no work. She's abusive and threatening to others there. She's an embarrassment to the House.
Thank you. This past Friday, 10/22, I listened to Joanne Freeman on NCHE’s “History Matters (and so does coffee!),” She said that these Letters are important for information today and for history, I.e. those who will research this era in the future. Thank you for consistently shedding light on our current crisis.
Besides doing her part to defend democracy, I suspect that this is one of the things that motivates Dr. Richardson. She has become immortal. We should never forget that she has made herself vulnerable if we should lose. I am so grateful for her diligence, her insight, her knowledge, and her courage.
I was a long-time member and supporter of NCHE, initially when they were on the front line in establishing national history standards at the start of 1990.NCHE has a broad membership among history teachers. At there annual conference (alas, still Zoom) they have a plethora of presentations. Perhaps one could be done on the importance of HCR’s Letters on contemporary history. A researcher could analyze the substance and the comments which, despite their bias of being factual and common sense, indicate that there are thinking, well-informed Americans. He/she could also analyze the subscription list for geographic distribution. (A correlation between high-vax states?)
I like this idea VERY much! “… bias of being factual and common sense,” excellent point! And add a category for self-identified subscribers living in angry trumpite households, like myself. I tried to discuss 1/6 with my 41yo USN veteran son, who I can actually talk to (unlike husband) and got a backlash of Joe Rogan talking points about BLM protests. Very depressing, LFAA is my only encouragement.
I truly believe that you are right, I wrote every day to my senators during both impeachment trials, someday people are going to look 👀 at the record of this time and I wanted to be on record for standing up for the truth, I have done the same thing with the NYT but have sort of given up with their minders, then I was introduced to this group, I found a home, you guys put up with a lot from me I guess because you can see I speak from the heart ❤️. I pray that in the future, people that are trying to understand what in the hell we have been going through, will find this group we are all part of and say, those people got it and stood up for values and ideals that our nation’s founders risked their lives for, I’m proud to stand with all of you.
Between the recent revelations by Frances Haugen on FB, the congressional hearings and now this RS piece with organizers naming top level people in Congress and Trump's staff, I'm feeling more confident this combination of events will finally be able to stitch together a direct connection to the very top at the WH, Congress and the GOP.
I am reminded that the women who originally planned the "rally" had planned it for later in January and that it was the orange dumpster himself who moved the date to January 6th and then became personally involved in planning it. I wish I could provide the source for that...
As a North Carolinian, I want to apologize to the world for Meadows, DeJoy, Cawthorn, and others, but I can't because they are responsible for their own actions - I can only continue to oppose them and try to be part of a more inclusive, just, loving and equitable nation and world.
AND I hope they ALL go to jail, included the 45th President.
Living in Texas, I certainly can't be critical of what is happening in other states! What bothers me is all the Republicans complicit in buying into the lies and producing anti-democratic legislation. Where is their courage, their integrity, their backbones? They aren't even calling out the intimidation and death threats that should not be tolerated in any civilized society.
My country 'tis of thee
Sweet land of liberty
Where have you gone?
Cathy, we need to stop being so naive as to expect courage and integrity from Republicans. With rare exceptions (Liz Cheney, Adam Kinzinger), they have none, and they’re just fine with that. As far as the GOP goes, courage and integrity are for chumps. They think we’re fools for expecting either from them. It’s all about amassing power.
I hear you, JR. Yes I think the Republican Party is irredeemable now and needs to disappear. Even heard a commentator talking about going to a multi-party government. I think that would be a good thing. I'm with John Adams that the worst evil to befall the Constitution would be the two party system. When people ask me what party I belong to I say the Synergists. Multiple perspectives lead to better solution for all. And I'd measured the country by a Well-Being Index rather than GNP.
I understand Beverly. I’m from Kentucky, who contributes Moscow Mitch to the list of degenerates. 🤬
And in Colorado, my target is Lauren Boebert; an embarrassment to the state.
I'm not in her district but will financially help her opponent, whoever that may be.
Like Boebert, TFG's chosen candidate for the US Senate seat Richard Burr currently holds is a gun shop owner named Budd. The GOP, NRA, and other forces recruit from the extremes of their pools.
We need to clean up WNC for sure. Don’t agree about jail for 45, would be bad precedent. I’d settle for conviction and commutation of sentence without pardon.
Don’t agree. The continuing bad precedent would be to not lock up the white guy who broke the law.
My brother spent over a year in LEAVENWORTH (sent from a NYC courtroom!) for refusing induction in the military in the early 70’s. Seeing trump get fair and equal treatment under the law and incarcerated for his crimes, if found guilty, just might take away a teeny amount of the pain in seeing our principled, non-violent son/brother shackled and transported across state lines to a maximum security federal prison (cheap and easy to transport “peaceniks”).
Thanks for letting me vent. I know this may sound petty and quid pro quo-ish, but BECAUSE trump was President makes it all the more important to enforce the laws and see all the accusations he faces to a fair and legal end.
I respect your brother's choice and only regret that he had to do his 1+ year at Ft. Leavenworth. (In the early 1970's, Leavenworth was more of a dungeon, I believe.) I was in the army in the late 60's and serving in a highly classified unit. We were warned that if we spoke ONE word about what we did, we could get 20 years in Leavenworth, a pretty scary prospect. And that potential punishment was in effect for an additional 30 years AFTER we got out of service.
trump's crimes are far, far more deserving of punishment than your brother's stand on principle. It seems that in the U.S., the amount of "justice" the accused/convicted person receives is based on how much money that person has in order to pay lawyers. trump should get 20 years at Leavenworth plus returning with interest all the funds he looted while in office. And then there's Jarvanka. If they avoid penalties and punishment, then we still have a very unjust system.
I agree. I want him to rot in jail and die there, a very old man.
Sorry to be dark.
"...jail for 45, would be bad precedent."
I don't think so. The bad precedent has been letting presidents and other high rollers off the hook without penalties. After Watergate, Pres. Ford let ex-president Nixon escape legal penalties for his perjury and other crimes connected to Watergate. Ford said it was "for the good of the country." Pres. Bush Sr. let the Iran-Contra criminals all off the hook, saying it was so the country "can move forward." Well, we didn't move forward. The American public saw another clear example of the higher the position of the criminal, the less they would pay for their crimes. And so it goes....
Agree. Don't forget heavy fines, forfeiture of assets, and, if possible, revocation of his passport.
Revoke his passport? No way - let him find some other country to destroy!
Dr. Heather Cox Richardson. You are fierce. You are tireless. You are amazing.
And so must we be the same.
This is what Obama said several days ago. We can't be tired.
He repeated it over and over this past weekend as he stumped for McAuliffe and Phil Murphy. Was so refreshing and energizing to watch/hear him again
Gailee Walker Wells - you said it! Agreed!
A little item the participating members of Congress might want to review.
Fourteenth Amendment
Section 3
No Person shall be a Senator or Representative in Congress, or elector of President and Vice-President, or hold any office, civil or military, under the United States, or under any State, who, having previously taken an oath, as a member of Congress, or as an officer of the United States, or as a member of any State legislature, or as an executive or judicial officer of any State, to support the Constitution of the United States, shall have engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the same, or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof. But Congress may by a vote of two-thirds of each House, remove such disability.
Amdt14.S3.1 Disqualification from Holding Office
Amdt14.S3.1.1 Disqualification Clause
https://constitution.congress.gov/browse/amendment-14/section-3/
And the 2/3 of each house is the problem.
I become more and more aware that the Legislative Branch of our Government is beyond corrupt and useless. They have inured themselves against the consequences of their own actions. Through their web of complex and obtuse procedures they have obscured any accountability for their actions. They have enriched themselves endlessly through consorting with self interested lobbyists.
Their craving for self preservation and undiluted power has led us to this point.
Not true. Not an easy task to fix, but the corruption seemed to be more widespread in the judicial branch under the former. And progress being made. I do not know if you saw Atty General Garland square off with the likes of Gymmie Jordan last week at a committee hearing, but order is being restored, in my opinion.
I respectfully invite you to take a long view of what Congress has wrought in it's continued obstruction of Democratic procedures and values over the course of decades.
I saw the Attorney General with Jordan. He did a good job.
And as I have said before. Name calling became popularized under Trump. Can we please do better than him in our political discourse and not name call our opponents?
Right now, it benefits my state of mind to look at the short view and the damage done and length of repair.
And name calling was popularized far longer ago than that done by the former.
But I agree with you about political discourse. It is difficult for me to refrain when it comes to the likes of Gymmie. But thank you for the reminder.
love gymmie jordan
All while cashing that government paycheck “handout.”
Yes, the Legislative Branch of our Government is beyond corrupt and useless in many, many ways. However, Heather Elowe has misinterpreted Section 3 of the 14th Amendment
"But Congress may by a vote of two-thirds of each House, remove such disability."
I may be mistaken but I believe that sentence means that a 2/3 vote of each House can remove the disability (prohibition) of a person seeking to hold any of the mentioned offices and who "has engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the same, or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof."
2/3 vote. In each House expanded and explained:
"The right to remove disabilities imposed by this section was exercised by Congress at different times on behalf of enumerated individuals.1 In 1872, the disabilities were removed, by a blanket act, from all persons except Senators and Representatives of the Thirty-sixth and Thirty-seventh Congresses, officers in the judicial, military and naval service of the United States, heads of departments, and foreign ministers of the United States.2 Twenty-six years later, Congress enacted that the disability imposed by section 3 . . . incurred heretofore, is hereby removed.3"
https://constitution.congress.gov/browse/essay/amdt14-S3-1-1/ALDE_00000848/
Good luck getting two thirds of the house to work together on anything.
I’m a very literal person(not always a good thing) so I’m confused.
So the 2/3 vote is required to reinstate one’s right to hold public office after engaging in insurrection/rebellion.
Wouldn’t that be a good thing with current House ?
Or is the 2/3 vote also required to remove one initially from office after engaging in insurrection/rebellion. Which wouldn’t be good??
In any case, MTG et al are “disabilities” .That was my first interpretation:)
2/3 vote in both Houses, (Chambers of Congress) to remove the disability thus allowing them to hold office at the State and/or Federal level again. As it stands today, Republicans convicted of insurrection/rebellion wouldn't stand a chance of having the disability removed. Not necessarily true down the road.
I was in the process of replying basically the same thing above today (the 27th) and stopped myself, and you are correct: the 2/3rds vote allowed those formerly disqualified to serve, again, as part of Reconstruction (as in the case of those who fought for the Confederacy).
Does this vote permanently remove the "disability"?
"It states that a two-thirds majority vote in Congress is required to allow public officials who had engaged in rebellion to regain the rights of American citizenship and hold government or military office."
It seems that it would permanently remove the disability unless the person engaged in an act of rebellion again. I would definitely defer to a constitutional lawyer to get an accurate read.
The 14th Amendment Simplified:
https://www.history.com/topics/black-history/fourteenth-amendment#section_6
That, I don't know. I will look it up in a bit.
We no longer have people of honor in Congress
The Constitution depended upon honor above opportunity, a critical but unforeseen flaw
Not true. There are many people of honor in Congress.
Who among the Republicans has honor? IMHO, unless a Republican proclaims publically his denunciation of Jan. 6 and Trump's incitement of it, he has no honor. Where is the honor in betraying the republic? The facts are as clear as the nose on your face. Not to stand up for the good of the country is a betrayal. The survival of our democracy is at stake. As Angus King said recently, we have been thrust -- "those of us in this body—into a moment when the fate of the American experiment hangs in the balance.” If it fails, it will be because of the Republican senators. They have the power.
Congress was mentioned, not just Republicans. My comment included Democrats and Independents and yes, a few Republicans. So please do not lecture me about honor.
Sorry, Christine, for sounding like I was lecturing. I'm no one to be lecturing you or anyone here. I'm so shocked at the Republican silence, even with Cheney leading the way, so shocked and very worried! Just hoping and praying the DOJ or one of the many suits against him will remove him from the political scene.
A “few”?
Not enough for the Constitution to function as designed
Same problem with capitalism: It works great as long as no one gets greedy.
We certainly do have a lot of people of honor in Congress. Judiciary Committee head Jamie Raskin (D-MD) is #1, IMO. But although I disagree strongly with both of them on immigration an issue I feel strongly about (I think the numbers need to be greatly reduced), Nancy Pelosi and my Congressperson, Katherine Clark, are certainly people of honor, as are Liz Cheney and Adam Kinzinger, and there are plenty of others.
And it’s only a crime if you’re not a Republican.
Exactly. I asked my Congressional House Rep if his Nay vote on holding Brannon accountable for ignoring a legal subpoena means I can do the same. I said I’d invoke his vote as my legal justification. Haven’t heard back yet.
It isn't impossible if the plot is clear and they go home at Thanksgiving and find out $$$ isn't going to be forthcoming for the tainted....it would give the Republicans a chance to run someone with a clean slate. Perhaps saving their party.
Just wrote the following to my rep.
Dear Representative Huffman,
I just read the Rolling Stone article (https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/exclusive-jan-6-organizers-met-congress-white-house-1245289/) on congressional involvement in setting up the Jan 6 insurrection, and I'm incandescently furious. I believe the 14th Amendement to the Constitution, Section 3, needs to be enforced against these individuals in a timely fashion. They have engaged in insurrection against the United States government, and should be removed from Congress and be barred from further participation. They pose an ongoing danger to the republic.
Hear, hear!!!
I just sent this to my rep and senator. Thanks!
Hope you don't mind but I used this and added some of my own -- sent to my senators and my representative.
Don’t forget a few of our favorite senators that may also have been involved in the insurrection planning- Cruz, Hawley & someone I’m forgetting. Those members charged would be prohibited from voting to remove, might make the 2/3 more do’able.
What I'm reading from section 3 above is that evidence of insurrection implies automatic dismissal, and it takes 2/3 of each house to KEEP them in office.
OR allow them to hold office (State/Federa)l in the future. I'm pretty sure they have to be charged, tried and convicted of insurrection or rebellion before they are removed from office. Of course if an elected official committed a murder/assassination during an act of insurrection/rebellion they'd certainly be ineligible to hold office from that point forward, right?
Yes.
You mean voting to remove the disability (prohibition) to hold office correct? If so, indeed, those you mentioned definitely need to be scrutinized.
I'm glad to see you include Cruz. He belongs right there with the rest of the seditionists.
Wait. - doesn't it mean the congress critters who engaged in planning the insurrection are automatically OUT of office unless 2/3s of each House lets them stay? With Democratic majorities in both Houses, that "disability" (being an insurrectionist) shall not be removed, but the insurrectionists themselves will. Am I reading this correctly?!
Robert Hubbell reports in Today's Edition:
"The report in Rolling Stone raises serious questions about the participation of members of Congress in efforts to subvert the Constitution through violence. If true, we need more than a congressional investigation and a damning report. We need criminal investigations and prosecutions, where appropriate—ASAP. If you have an opportunity to interact with members of Congress who represent you, ask what they are doing to pressure the administration to prosecute the leaders of the insurrection. Time is of the essence. The elections of 2022 are hard upon us, and we need the deterrent effect of criminal prosecutions to dissuade similar attempts in the future."
That’s how I’m reading it MaryPat. The 2/3 of each house is needed to overrule their removal.
My hope is their removal will be automatic one the committee rules their actions were illegal and constitute insurrection.
But my hope has been dashed before.
It forbids them from holding office at the Federal and State levels. It applies to those who have (previously) held office at the State or Federal levels and taken the oath to defend the constitution.
Oh, so looks like they can get onto school boards. Terrific!
Which is why voting in local elections is so important!!
MaryPat, here's what I found on this.....Article I, Section 5, of the United States Constitution provides that "Each House [of Congress] may determine the Rules of its proceedings, punish its members for disorderly behavior, and, with the concurrence of two-thirds, expel a member." Since 1789, the Senate has expelled only fifteen of its entire membership.
This is a different scenario. If invoked, would require 2/3 to vote on them not being sanctioned by removal.
Yes, that's a different issue than Section 3 which lifts the disability (prohibition) of holding office with a 2/3 vote from both Houses.
Well, well, well. Sweet clause. Perfect postscript for today, Daria. No chance to filibuster treason. Reminder of the scope of the Constitution. Amazing.
Daria I’m not going to hold my breath. But with that said would it be a good trade off for some to Vote for the Fair and Free voting we all are terrified of losing ? I don’t like them getting away with what they did. But if Biden gets his way that just might be his Ace card ? Would have loved to been a fly on the wall this weekend in Del.
Fly on the wall? Me too!
If only.....
Thank you for this very important information.
I knew there was no way in the world the insurrectionsts could have stormed the Capitol the way they did without the aid of politicians providing them blueprints.
Like the example of Facebook, which is destabilizing not just the U.S, but the world's largest democracy, India (and others), our country is being attacked from within by unaccountable, underregulated corporate behemoths and politicians who owe their loyalty not to the people who elected them, but a narcissistic madman who would see this country destroyed rather than tell the truth, and corporations more concerned about their bottom line than the survival of the U.S., which has granted them such extravagant largesse.
Prosecute and jail every politician who is complicit in this madness.
Thanks, again.
I would pluralize madman to madmen and women. TFG did not act alone. This is decades in the planning.
Too true. I can't decide whether "puppeteers pulling strings" or "chess masters with pawns to spare" is the better metaphor, but if we could pull the curtain back, I'm sure we'd find the Kochs and other such monied interests cackling with glee.
Yes. Let us not forget that Representative James Clyburn, who spoke vehemently on camera immediately after the attack, was questioning HOW the insurrectionists found their way to his secondary work office, which was "hidden" in the labyrinthian hallways, when his PUBLIC office was right there in plain sight, with his NAME on the door. Let us not forget the actual video footage of the woman giving detailed directions about which doors to enter, which doors led to what, etc. DURING the insurrection. Let us not forget that the Capitol was breached via one unprotected door - that the leaders of the mob went directly to and entered there. Let us not forget that groups of unidentified people were allowed inside the Capitol to TOUR it on January 5th, when the Capitol had been closed to visitors because of Covid. That this attack was coordinated from WITHIN the halls of Congress is obvious, even to someone who has no background in law enforcement. Those are not coincidences.
And I continue to maintain that the pipe bomber was a woman...probably someone working for Greene or Boebert, if not one of them.
Gee, Ellen... and that's not all we need to remember, such as our doctor's appointments and to have some fun. Why do you think the pipe bomber was a woman?
I have watched those videos over and over and I think the person moves more like a woman than a man. Plus h/she stopped to "rest" on a bench. It seems to me that whoever she/he might be, the area was not unfamiliar.
Perhaps the people who are starting to "sing" and are pissed about being abandoned by their fearless leader will finally start making a dent in those who still worship DiJiT. Why those talking with the committee and Rolling Stone would have needed a blanket pardon if what they were doing was legal should have given them pause at the start, but that requires at least a modicum of rational thought process.
To simply go to the Capital and even get past the Barriers was a crime. Period ! I had read there was 250K there ? My first thought was, funny enough, how could so many miss the time form work, pay for food and lodging, fuel ? You just have to figure it had some planning.
Yup. Why were they talking pardons? Seemed like a stupid thing to admit to if irrelevant. If Trump (and they) believed he would succeed why would a pardon be needed? I have to ask...a pardon for what? If they were arrested by the police before the inauguration - for doing what exactly? Peacefully assembling?
Ms. Woods. Thank you for this astute post. "Stupid" is fair. But it would be more precise (meaning more accurate) to say that that these acolytes of TFG, who now purport to be innocent dupes, knew from the moment that they were promised pardons that the undertaking here would not be anything remotely resembling a simple protest, protected by the first amendment, but a criminal undertaking. So the admission, while surely stupid, is not "irrelevant." Moreover, their signing on with Trump in the first instance attests to their criminal proclivities, and, while racist and nativist views are not, of course, criminal in and of themselves, their signing onto Trump attests to those views as well. These "innocent dupes" merit no sympathy, only contempt.
Oh I think it was very relevant. They were trying to make it sound like they they thought an offer of a pardon was irrelevant because they thought they weren't doing anything wrong.
The Nuremberg Trials come to mind.
I thought the same thing. As I think more about it what comes to mind for me is that trumpism and the associated conspiracy theories are all part of the game. Planning is being treated like a war in a sense. It is very exciting and adventurous to feel as though one is a real part of a revolution. A part of something big. I would have a hard time believing none of the planners wouldn’t have at least paused for a moment when pardons were mentioned but I can believe that any bending of the rules could be rationalized under the rug out of excitement, the feeling of being important and the fear of how bad the other side is. What that leaves me wondering is, what do these people think they are going to get if they win their war? There is no policy and there doesn’t seem to be anything available on the other side except a more dysfunctional government.
Robert your words just made something clarify in my mind. The organizers thought they were doing nothing wrong. However, they knew if they succeeded there would be no repercussions for their actions because they would have won. If they failed, they may have been convinced they would be prosecuted in retaliation for just protesting because Trump firmly believes everyone against him should suffer hugely. They were told Democrats would make up charges and they would need pardons even though they were doing nothing wrong.
Basically it was the business as usual manipulation by the Republicans. They feed conspiracies and propaganda to the vulnerable.
I could be way off on this thought but I haven’t been able to work out any other explanation for why they needed pardons. Unless they actually planned serious death and violence.
Question: if the organizers believed they were doing nothing wrong why were the "comforted" by Gosar's promise of a presidential blanket pardon?
"..what do these people think they are going to get if they win their war?" That, to me, is the basic question I m boiling down to for any Trump supporter I might engage with. (Some Trump people I know, seem to enjoy the anger and the fight more than that they believe in anything. As an example, one sent me an email earlier this year angry (furious really) that the price of gas was going to rise to over$10/gallon. He also sent me a video of a friend of his driving around a fancy part of NYC where all of the stores windows were boarded up. They both were angry that BLM protests had caused this. In fact, many storefronts were boarded up due to Covid and there was an article about just that in the NYTimes well before BLM protests.) A lot of angry people in this country just looking for punching bag, it seems.)
Kim Findlay your "friend's" email reminds me of something that made me angry in June 2020 - all the people angry about "BLM" but no mention of the fact we had all seen a man tortured to death, crying "I can't breathe", calling for his dead mother, in front of a teenaged child who was taking her younger cousin to the neighborhood store for a snack. Where is the outrage over a person being killed in such a nonchalant, "I won't suffer any consequences" manner by law enforcement?
And TFG going on all the news channels claiming it was "Antifa." I went to protest because I am a mother, and I did not want such a thing to happen to ANYBODY. I had never heard of Antifa. So I didn't appreciate TFG labeling "me" and all the people around the world of good conscience who turned out to say "this is wrong."
They were told that they were the “Forgotten Ones “. Victims if you will ?Because there was a Black man in Office for 8 yrs. And ‘Who’ was trying to get that Black man Disqualified ? The Birther BS. Obama got him good at that Journalist Award Banquet. Then it was all out war. TFG was laughed at in attendance .So the Mantra was” We are going to OWN the Dems.” We all know they are Racist to their core.His Bully Pit gave them Permission to be likewise. They were none the less angry the 4 yrs he was in Office were they. Worse actually. They don’t understand that he was using them to save himself.The only thing that was really important to TFG was the Tax cut’s and Deregulation. Always been his gripes. And to go back to thinking about TFG and Racism actually his favorite color is green and it matters not Race, Religion, or Creed if you got a lot and he can get it from you .He sent them to Our House. They wouldn’t be invited to step a foot on a blade of his house.And the fools aren’t questioning where 26-28 Trillion $( what ever the crazy amount is ?) Is ? Think of all the programs he dumped right out the gate ? Then CoVid ? If there are homeless Repubs. they may want to Rethink what they’er doing . He’s just mad because even though he was President after Mr O. He didn’t get two terms.I think the only thing that could bring him down is some kind of charges as a regular citizen . I had a woman tell me the other day that she didn’t care about any Repub. policy’s . Just stop abortion . I could not speak.
I want to know where somewhere around 26 Trillion $ went ? I hear different numbers ? Was it the “1 for you, 2 for me game ?” America, the largest money launderer in the whole world. Britain 2 ed. Geeze.
THAT is the most horrifying thing I read all weekend! I don’t doubt it either. How did we let everything fall apart so completely?
As a rational person you assume others have the interest in & capacity for rational thought but, look at that heinous group of miscreants- mtg, Cahill, Gaetz, Bobert, gohmer, do they seem rational at all? Someone said “pardon” and they probably thought someone burped and was being exceptionally polite.
I thought that as well. If they didn’t do or plan anything wrong (illegal), why would “a blanket pardon” ev
even be mentioned?
Sorry about the interrupted post. Cat foot pads work on Apple products.
Yes, and they can make a real mess sometimes! But it’s worse when they walk through a perfect watercolor after stepping in the red paint!
I have a perfect cat print on the hardwood floor in the living room. He stepped in paint & left multiple prints. (My fault for not putting him in another room while I painted.) I cleaned all but the perfect one up & left it to make me smile at how silly life is sometimes.
I would have also. Dogs have owners. Cats have Staff. 😹
Love it! I need to clear my browser history because our kitten takes advantage whenever I leave my laptop open
I would have done the same thing. I left that red print in my floral painting mostly because red is extremely difficult to scrub out in watercolor. I am probably the only one who notices it. I learned to close the door from that day on.
Yes, they do! Lol! I have to quickly shut off my wireless keyboard when I feel the cat at my elbow. Or else things in the screen change rapidly. 😄
LOL !
Lol! Yes, they do!
Don't they ever....
"fearful leader" seems most appropriate.
Pamela, In reading your comment '...people who are starting to 'sing' and pissed...' I wondered about factionalism within DT's activists band. Why did they talk to Rolling Stone? Speaking to the press seems to be a departure. If they are going rogue, will others follow? I don't see them going our way, but the more they split, perhaps, more possible it may be to tamp down their anti-democratic movement. Robert's comment pointing to the spirit of excitement and revolutionary zeal, and I would add -- relishing the power they feel in rebellion against big government, against the power structure and the institutions grown out of it -- is very hot. The danger of their fury has not cooled as subscribers and news reports make clear. How much is planned as how much is sheer wildness -- with a sense of abandon?
Upon reflection there is no doubt in my mind that some of the insurrection army were caught up in the moment, guided by their own delusion that they would be proud for having taken some part in changing the course of history, protecting democracy, not destroying it . But that is not an excuse for the people that organized and promoted the rally, or those in the room at the White House and Willard hotel, or those that failed us during TWO impeachments! All of this leads back to Trump and members of Congress taking Russian money and Trump's pedigree...greedy, unfaithful, and narcissistic. He didn't change and they let Trump be Trump as if it was a novelty rather than a bad thing.
Martha , I agree. We can't take our eyes or minds from Trump's power and his moves. I recently read an article about him on Salon and posted excerpts of it as comment just minutes go.
Why any of these people think Trump will have their arses when he becomes dictator (according to him and them) is beyond me. This is just another of many instances of the writing being on the wall.
I ask out of ignorance, (no offence to any individuals), if any religion is rational? In Congress, we have at last count (Pew Research Center) out of 450, 175 Catholics, 43 Methodists, 50 Jewish, 10 undefined.
Belonging to a religion and practicing that religion are two entirely different things. To claim Christianity and say and do the things people like MT Greene does is abhorrent.
If true Boebert, et al, were involved (and I believe it), they better be expelled from the House.
ASAP to prison.
Remember Boebert's tweet in the midst of the insurrection: "The speaker has left the chamber"? One of my favorite people to follow on Twitter, @Angry_Staffer, pointed out this morning that the tweet "probably becomes a felony if they can prove she was involved in the planning."
Delicious.
Do we really think McCarthy will move to get these folks expelled? Not in a heartbeat 'cuz he needs to go with them.
Might not be in his hands?
We need an authority to provide how this would be possible.
I'm not an authority but it takes 2/3 of the house or Senate to expel a sitting member. It's possible that they would achieve that. I think that's why they were able to remove Nixon. They had the vote to do so. In the past I think members of Congress have usually resigned when faced with legal prosecution. Personally I have no recollection of anyone ever just being expelled. That would be interesting to know.
I cannot imagine any of those on the list would resign. McCarthy is ineffective as a leader and will double down on protecting them in order to protect himself. If they do get booted he will then claim to have cleaned up the GOP and take all the credit for himself.
I am just shocked we have not seen Jim Jordan’s name in this list. We know he’s guilty but was he only involved at the Trump level?
Wonder if those on the list to be expelled would automatically lose their right to a vote? You know, conflict of interest!
Never mind, I think Daria has provided a resource below.
The list of Congress people involved reads like a list of anarchists. It is rather difficult to believe that knowing who those were that this organization is now claiming they were duped by TFG. Sounds more like they have worked with defense lawyers to come up with a plausible line of doubt.
"We didn't know that throwing a match on gasoline would start a fire."
I was cleaning my gun and it went off.
Was just carrying Jerry cans to fill my generator and tripped.
From the R.S. article: "These two sources also helped plan a series of demonstrations that took place in multiple states around the country in the weeks between the election and the storming of the Capitol."
Who are helping coordinate anti-democracy demonstrations around the country at local school boards (in the guise of anti-mask protests, etc)? Because one can guess this is coming from the top of the GOP. Just in the last two weeks, the head of the local Repub party told his supporters to call the police on our teachers for keeping 'offending' books in their classrooms, saying “Can you imagine their shame and embarrassment when they try to explain why they were arrested to the public? This could do it. This could break them."
It's no coincidence that this is happening all over the country. These malefactors are well-funded and working overtime to destabilize society and undermine the foundations of our democracy.
Kara Hammond re: R.S. article and local assaults on education/educators and school boards
sadly yes - threats, intimidation, and ultimately violence.
They are going to drive all the educators out, (low pay and status, threats of safety, pandemic concerns and risks, inadequate supplies, overbearing and impossible legislation, parents even worse than the kids in disrespect, demeaning treatment as "baby sitters" so parents can go to work, expectations that teachers will "raise" the kids, medical and mental health problems affecting students with inadequate support or treatment, and on and on and on...)
but they won't care because they want to end the whole system of public education and those prevent born into lower socioeconomic conditions from ever achieving in the social hierarchy. (In a group discussing the book CASTE, so I may be a little triggered already.)
As a professor from age 58 to 80, I taught a major segment of a course on SOCIETAL DISCRIMINATION FROM PATRIARCHY TO THE PRESENT: the WHAT vs. the WHO, which addressed slavery and its aftermath. I shudder to think of the reaction, were I to teach this today in a number of American states. With history, who controls the teaching of the past can control the future. Stalin taught us that.
A lie told often enough becomes the truth. Vladimir Lenin
In our country the lie has become not just a moral category but a pillar of the State. Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn
Keith, raises a fundamental aspect of Democracy, which we are losing. Subscribers currently teaching in America have shared their horror about it with us.
Historian, Timothy Snyder, teacher and author knows as Keith does the antecedents of tyranny.
'What are “Memory laws”? – "Government actions designed to guide public interpretation of the past... by asserting a mandatory view of historical events, by forbidding the discussion of historical facts or interpretations..." #TruthBeTold'
'It is a perverse goal: Teachers succeed if students do not understand something.'
'This spring, memory laws arrived in America. Republican state legislators proposed dozens of bills designed to guide and control American understanding of the past. As of this writing, five states (Idaho, Iowa, Tennessee, Texas and Oklahoma) have passed laws that direct and restrict discussions of history in classrooms. The Department of Education of a sixth (Florida) has passed guidelines with the same effect. Another 12 state legislatures are still considering memory laws.'
'The particulars of these laws vary. The Idaho law is the most Kafkaesque in its censorship: It affirms freedom of speech and then bans divisive speech. The Iowa law executes the same totalitarian pirouette. The Tennessee and Texas laws go furthest in specifying what teachers may and may not say. In Tennessee teachers must not teach that the rule of law is “a series of power relationships and struggles among racial or other groups.” Nor may they deny the preamble to the Declaration of Independence, words that Thomas Jefferson presumably never intended to be part of an American censorship law. The Idaho law mentions Critical Race Theory; the directive from the Florida school board bans it in classrooms. The Texas law forbids teachers from requiring students to understand the 1619 Project. It is a perverse goal: Teachers succeed if students do not understand something.'
'But the most common feature among the laws, and the one most familiar to a student of repressive memory laws elsewhere in the world, is their attention to feelings. Four of five of them, in almost identical language, proscribe any curricular activities that would give rise to “discomfort, guilt, anguish or any other form of psychological distress on account of the individual’s race or sex.”
'History is not therapy, and discomfort is part of growing up. As a teacher, I cannot exclude the possibility, for example, that my non-Jewish students will feel psychological distress in learning how little the United States did for Jewish refugees in the 1930s. I know from my experience teaching the Holocaust that it often causes psychological discomfort for students to learn that Hitler admired Jim Crow and the myth of the Wild West. Teachers in high schools cannot exclude the possibility that the history of slavery, lynchings and voter suppression will make some non-Black students uncomfortable. The new memory laws invite teachers to self-censor, on the basis of what students might feel — or say they feel. The memory laws place censorial power in the hands of students and their parents. It is not exactly unusual for white people in America to express the view that they are being treated unfairly; now such an opinion could bring history classes to a halt.' (NY Times) Link to article below.
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/06/29/magazine/memory-laws.html
Timothy Snyder is the Richard C. Levin Professor of History at Yale and a permanent fellow of the Institute for Human Sciences in Vienna. He is the author of several works of European history, including Bloodlands, winner of the American Academy of Arts and Letters Literature Award, the Hannah Arendt Prize, and the Leipzig Book Prize. His most recent books are On Tyranny and The Road to Unfreedom. Link to Snyder's website below.
https://www.timothysnyder.org/
Fern I agree that Tim Snyder is an extraordinary, path-breaking scholar. In BLOODLANDS: Eastern Europe between Hitler and Stalin his original research highlighted that the extermination of Jews and other ‘undesirables’ commenced long before the creation of death camps. An earlier book attacked David Goldhagen’s thesis by documenting that a number of German soldiers were complicit rather than reluctant in pursuing Hitler’s extermination policy.
For me a major goal of education is to develop students’ capacity for critical thinking.This achieved by exposure to diverse historical viewpoints, discussing them, and then forming one’s own informed opinion. Restricting teaching to an emasculated curriculum results in robotic ‘learning’ rather than critical thinking. Descartes said: I THINK THEREFORE I AM.
Yes, similar. Reading “White Trash,” by Nancy Isenberg.
thanks for the book recommendation Diane LeClaire, I will check it out.
Last night I participated in an online event featuring Malcolm X. They played a number of clips from his speeches (including Oxford and Berkeley). Sad, so much of what he said is completely pertinent today.
I read last night a summary of the story in the Rolling Stone that Dr. Cox Richardson posted today and had a strengthening of the feeling I’ve had over the last few days - that a dam is about to burst.
Yet, I am bothered by it. In the first place no other media outlets of repute seems to have picked it up. I know it’s a media version of “A friend of my aunt’s best friend’s chiropractor told me this” story, but still. One would think that something of this seeming magnitude would have been picked up by the media as a whole.
Next, and more important, the source said that they never had any intention of breaking into the Capitol. If this was their testimony to the House Committee, then what exactly were they and all the usual suspects actually *planning*? Presumably the January 6 rally and others.
One can argue that they wanted the rally to give powerful outside - literally outside - impetus to the political machinations of the day, which were to illegally stop the certification of the votes - looking at you Mike Pence.
On its face then, this story doesn’t live up to the label “blockbuster”. It sounds big, but radiates confusion. If they didn’t plan to storm the Capitol, then why was Gosar promising a blanket pardon from Trump? People planning rallies should not need any pardon, let alone one from such an august personage as Donald Trump. /s
Obviously it’s a bad look for House members to be assisting plans for Stop the Steal rallies. But it’s so murky I’d need a lawyer to point out to me where exactly it’s criminal. The fact is other events have happened, are fully documented and clearly more criminal than this one (Trump’s phone call to Raffensberger would be one), without being prosecuted yet.
It would take only the gentlest arm twisting, perhaps a metaphorical finger lightly placed on my willing arm, to get me to believe that these sources were lying when they said they had no intention to storm the Capitol. I am thoroughly disposed to believe that there was an immense amount of coordination between what I will generously call the “brains” of this irredeemably stupid plan and its brawn. Indeed I believe that this may well be proven beyond a shadow of a doubt by the Committee and Republicans will be scattering in all directions fleeing a suddenly sinking ship. I still hold to my gut feeling that soon the dam will break and a powerful mudslide will pour down the mountain, changing the landscape as mudslides will do. But this time it will be a political landscape that becomes unrecognizable.
But not quite yet. This is not a blockbuster. It is a tease. Or perhaps the trailer.
Tend to agree. There is certainly more to come.
What this does accomplish is to tie the names of most of the big 1/6 "deniers" in Congress as having been directly involved in setting up the violence.
It was always suspicious that such a small, consistent clot of congresscritters made the most noise denying that anything had happened, in crystal-clear contradiction to the real-time televised display of the facts. It always made them look guilty. But we (and the press) have instead simply tended to write them off as stupid.
Well, this makes it pretty clear they were guilty, and it changes the complexion of their denials. Their denials now look like the panicked response of criminals who did not get caught in the robbery, but don't know if they were caught on camera.
Smile, guys!
The Business Roundtable. The US Chamber of Commerce. American Legislative Exchange Council. Clubs enjoying swinging their financial leverage (and in the case of the Federalist Society their judicial weight) toward anti-democracy pro-corporate Radical Right (authoritarian, christian fascist) interests.
Would the Federalist Society want to make the US part of the Russian Federation?
The most ironic part of all of this is most of those active in the destruction of our country would truly fair the worst if our worst nightmares came to pass. SMH 🤦🏻♀️
American oligarchs, especially in the US weapons industry, would be interested in instigating more of a cold war with Russia not joining them. More do-re-me. And attorneys in the Federalist Society are invested in what's good for their money bags, I mean, oligarchs. How do you answer your question?
I ask because i dont know enough about the Federalist Society’s purpose or Russia’s “Federation” . I wonder if there is any connection or similar philosophy between them.
Google both....see what you come up with....
Maybe if they had well paid jobs with child care, dental, tuition free, etc. they wouldnt have time or energy to fuss with the federationists.
Sadly, many still have too much pride to accept a government "handout". It never occurs to them to see government as something we into which we all contribute for the benefit of everyone.
I am sure many of them are accepting government "handouts" but are in denial about it. Or, it's not a "handout" when they get it, they have a right to that $. But for the poor, Brown or Black people, women, the Others, it's the government dole.
My stepfather would say “I deserve it” when I asked him about being the recipient of social programs. When I asked why “others” did not he would bluster & hem & haw. When I said “you mean you deserve it because you’re white & they don’t because they’re not” he would lose his temper & resort to his usual “Shut up! You’re just another pinko commie bleeding heart liberal” insult. It always amazed me how a man who was racist in deed, thought & word and who was a member of the local KKK would become apoplectic if you said “you’re a racist” or “that’s racist”. That’s why I can’t abide lying, gaslighting or spin. Just have the backbone to own what you truly believe. And if you won’t because you know it’s repugnant, then do the work to change your beliefs.
Thank you for this. My father would go on and on about closing the borders. And this was back in the ‘90s when I visited him with the my then 18-month old. First time I’d been to visit him in his new home location, Texas. When I pointed out that’s how his dad and my maternal great-grandmother came into the country, and probably the Native Americans felt the same way about us, he muttered something about being “one of those” and that was end of conversation.
Agree. Coincidentally, if you haven’t seen it already, this article came out this past week.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2021/10/20/jennifer-jenkins-brevard-school-board-masks-threats/
I read that as well. Very troubling. I really think it's a coordinated attack on a national level.
There are Federalist Society spin-offs that cover all grouos- how to disrupt a county school system, how to get soccer moms on board, college kids for disruption, etc- they created talking points, messaging campaigns, lists is books to ban, lists of “enemies”, favorable donor lists, how to talk to the media, what language to use to get their targeted group on board. It’s insane to think about what went into a whole organization plotting to take down and take apart our country. And, and, AND they are all not for profits so they get all the tax breaks and cover afforded any legit charitable org.
Absolutely galling.
Well, WHERE are the voters who voted FOR her? Staying home saying nothing? I'm not talking about "protesting" here, but simply coming forward & backing her up. My other question is: since when did one person's so-called 1st Amendment right top any other person's safety from harassment & threats? I guess thats just how it is now? Period?
And come think of it - isnt it about time that people who are not parents of students in that school are barred from disrupting these meetings? A school Board meeting used to be for people who had children in school! Not someone from outside the area with an axe to grind!
It’s just a guess, but might it be the same ones who were behind the “Brooks Bros. Riot” that stopped the count in Florida (2000); or perhaps the “Tea Party Enactors” that harassed Obama’s administration (2012-2016). Of course, I’ve heard it suggested that the Democrats were the culprits, but don’t the Republicans always say that?
I wish I could provide the link, but I did read that Koch and other dark monies were behind these well-funded, well-coordinated "protests" at local school board meetings and that in many cases, the "protestors" were PAID by outside groups. Some of them weren't even parents in the school district they were "protesting."
:’-(
Well, well, well, none of those names are a surprise. Just glad the truth is coming out. If Gosar promised them a blanket pardon, that means he knew to they planned to break the law. Seems to suggest intent to me.
Sooo, “Gosar promised them a blanket pardon…” would that not in of itself implicate the POTUS, as isn’t he the only one able to grant pardons?
And they believed him? They didn’t know by then how feckless tfg is?
My whole thought with that is that they will throw Godard under the bus and say he acted on his own in promising those pardons. The claim will be Trump didn’t know anything about it, never spoke to Gosar, doesn’t even know who he is.
Yep! I’m not sure how to find it but my recollection was that he was actually speaking on the floor as the mob was basically out the door or just coming up the hall. He stammers and stops and the look on his face is almost a guilty terror. I’m not sure how to describe it but I commented that “there’s something going on there in him right now…” I wish I could pull it up.
In other words, mob SOP
It would except the Teflon guy will deny knowing they would say such a thing.
I was thinking exactly the same: preemptively offering pardons suggests Gosar knew he was inciting crimes.
It seems from the article (Rolling Stone let me read most of it before throwing up a paywall) that the pardon was for “unrelated” previous actions that were being investigated. Wild guess here, but that might be for taking foreign money and other illegalities in connection with idjt’s inauguration. Of course, a blanket pardon would also have covered more recent lawbreaking…
I had just finished reading a summary of the Rolling Stone story when your account arrived in my email. I suspected something was up because the scenic Maine picture had not arrived yet, signaling you hadn't taken a Sunday breather.
Your account of the Rolling Stone blockbuster raises fundamental questions: Will the House Select Committee investigate members of the House? Will it call them to testify under oath, as well as members of their staffs? Seize their cell phone records and more? Most importantly, will the committee vote to recommend removing these House members from office if there's proof they violated their oaths of office?
It will be fascinating to learn of precedents for such action as the plot, shall we say, thickens at an accelerating pace.
When parts of our government is the enemy…. Can’t wait for Kevin and trump to call them super patriots. There are no words for Ginni and Clarence Thomas…
‘Traitor’ comes to mind.
Yup.
Gosar will need a pardon for himself. Surprise! Nothing is coming for you Paul.
They better
When the ship is showing strain the rats start departing. This is going to take time--because not only do the wheels of justice move exceedingly slowly, but because of the ways in which Moscow Mitch packed the judicial branch with his own minions. And of course SCOTUS, which is proving to do exactly what some of us expected they would.
A bit of legal history for all of you, as I am feeling wonkish this morning: Soon after returning from the Crusades in 1274, new king Edward I fired all the justices in both judicial benches (Common Pleas and King's Bench) except one (sorry: trying to find the documentation but Google is being stubborn and I can't remember which work I wrote that includes this info), because of complaints about corruption. Although there is some evidence that he did this as a money-making maneuver--he was broke after 4 years of war in the Holy Land and most of the justices were reinstated after paying indemnities--it still showed that he was willing to push against the tendency of the justices to do things like accept bribes. The growth of parliament as a judicial body also changed the ways in which the justices were connected to the Crown, as they sat with the representatives (they are now members of the House of Lords).
The reason I bring it up is because the whole idea of a neutral judiciary--Blind Justice--has a very long history (longer than Magna Carta, Stuart, if you were going to bring that up!) but it is very hard to achieve. It takes enormous energy and persistence to maintain systems that are not biased and prone to corruption because s*** always rises to the top of the pond. So the fact that we are still in 2021 and stuff is starting to happen might well be taken as a good sign. The only way to make sure that the charges stick is to be deliberate about the process.
Our job, as citizens, is to vote, to bring people out to vote, and to ensure that 2022 isn't a disaster for the Dems. Because if we sit on out hands and moan about how slow the process is, we will lose everything.
Thank you for this bit of English history. Justices are human and subject always to human frailties. And I agree that it takes a lot of work. I am heartened to these names out there (and not a bit surprised). It is difficult to have patience, but I would rather see these criminals nailed to the wall than slip out on a technicality.
Exactamente. If somehow this is to be the single crystallizing fact, plea, mantra, thought, campaign slogan, motivating factor….however to frame what you have explained, Linda, to consolidate every effort to preserve our democracy. Justice is slow, but there is time. More than a year before 2022 elections. Which is an opportunity for complete success by pro democracy voters.
Well and clearly articulated, Linda. (You prompted a cleansing exhale first thing in the morning!) Thank you.
Seems like a day to revive names of influential supporters to overturn election or planners of the insurrection…even though now they may be running for cover of the thicket…or robes of a justice. This person is said to have raised considerable funds for buses to Washington for Jan 6 “rally”. What I think it raises is conflict of interest where justice is involved.
https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2021/01/ginni-thomas-donald-trump-clarence-thomas-capitol-riot.html
Interesting speculation regarding the potential conflict of interest residing on the Supreme Court
Moving closer and closer to being a Partisan Conservative Sledge Hammer, the Third Leg of Governance is losing its status as Impartial Instruments of Justice
The blindfolded lady weeps
Yet the Statue of Liberty still stands as the beacon she is in the welcoming harbor.
Thanks Christine. Your optimism is a lifeline when I feel myself slipping into the abyss.
Thank you for that. She certainly seems to be above the law. And her husband is likely a toady who does her bidding. Both truths have been known for decades. Yet, her social media activity never violates “community standards.” These traitorous actors need to be called to account.
I thought Snope wrote that the Gigi Thomas bus story was false.
Claim
Virginia "Ginni" Thomas, wife of Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas, sponsored 80 buses to transport participants to the "Save America" rally on Jan. 6, 2021.
Rating
False
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/ginni-thomas-buses/
truth
https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2021/01/ginni-thomas-donald-trump-clarence-thomas-capitol-riot.html
I scanned that pretty quickly but I think what was false was the funding of the buses only
This...Ginni Thomas' money supported the Jan 6 insurrection. Clarence, the idjt he is, needs to resign...Ginni needs jail for sedition.
While we worry about the phony righteous indignation of the accused, let’s keep in mind that the rally was being planned as over 60 cases went through the courts showing there was no way idjt could have won. And he actually said he would walk to the Capitol with them, another of his thousands of lies. And he actually said go home in peace. We love you. Why did republicans refuse to move to the balcony when Pelosi asked them to? They knew what was coming. We watched it on tv, they lived it, and republicans still think this failure of a human being is the leader of their party and has a chance of re-election. They are as egotistical and corrupt as their fearful leader.
Thanks, Heather. Seth Abramson has been uncovering vast amounts of info on the Jan 6th insurrection. Seems other publications are now just catching up. It is all on his Substack account "Proof". He has shared some of it without subscription.
I have been reading his Substack as well-- for months! and was curious why no one else was writing about this.
Cheerio. Glad to see another Seth Abramson reader here. It is the most perplexing thing. He probably has 90% of the info that the Insurrection committee, FBI, DOJ, mainstream media, progressive media etc. need regarding leading up to Jan 6th, Jan 6th, all the war rooms, all the people involved, the planners, funders, members of Congress, Senators and he is helped by hundreds of sources and nobody is talking about him. Finally the Washington Post gave him a mention a couple days ago. It's all there. He has dedicated life life to getting to the bottom of the bottom of the insurrection.
yes, it is quixotic at the lag in wider information sharing on this.
Thank you
This Rolling Stone article is more confirmation of info already out there and there are phone records, credit card statements etc . So why are these members of Congress still afforded all that comes with being a member of Congress? It seems like the Biden admin is dragging its heels on doing what must be done!
Um, no. The Biden admin is not dragging its heels. It’s following the rule of law.
Patience, Grasshopper.
This. Exactly.
This is a snake with many heads. It's likely the DOJ and House Select Committee's work represent the most complex, wide-ranging investigations that the federal government has ever undertaken. In the case of the House probe, some members of Congress are doing everything they can to slow or kill it. And keep in mind, much more is known about what the insurrectionists have done than has been made public.
Below, SLWeston has given us an incantation to chant every day.
Exactly. And why on earth is MTG even allowed inside that chamber? She has no work. She's abusive and threatening to others there. She's an embarrassment to the House.
Thank you. This past Friday, 10/22, I listened to Joanne Freeman on NCHE’s “History Matters (and so does coffee!),” She said that these Letters are important for information today and for history, I.e. those who will research this era in the future. Thank you for consistently shedding light on our current crisis.
Besides doing her part to defend democracy, I suspect that this is one of the things that motivates Dr. Richardson. She has become immortal. We should never forget that she has made herself vulnerable if we should lose. I am so grateful for her diligence, her insight, her knowledge, and her courage.
Every day. Every event. She keeps us grounded with the long range perspective.
Mitch plans to rewrite history. I’m praying for the truth to prevail
Bless his heart. He will not be getting that wish granted.
I don’t know if I would bless his heart, where he’s going blessing’s will be in short supply.
Hear, hear!!!!
I was a long-time member and supporter of NCHE, initially when they were on the front line in establishing national history standards at the start of 1990.NCHE has a broad membership among history teachers. At there annual conference (alas, still Zoom) they have a plethora of presentations. Perhaps one could be done on the importance of HCR’s Letters on contemporary history. A researcher could analyze the substance and the comments which, despite their bias of being factual and common sense, indicate that there are thinking, well-informed Americans. He/she could also analyze the subscription list for geographic distribution. (A correlation between high-vax states?)
I like this idea VERY much! “… bias of being factual and common sense,” excellent point! And add a category for self-identified subscribers living in angry trumpite households, like myself. I tried to discuss 1/6 with my 41yo USN veteran son, who I can actually talk to (unlike husband) and got a backlash of Joe Rogan talking points about BLM protests. Very depressing, LFAA is my only encouragement.
Ohm🙏
I truly believe that you are right, I wrote every day to my senators during both impeachment trials, someday people are going to look 👀 at the record of this time and I wanted to be on record for standing up for the truth, I have done the same thing with the NYT but have sort of given up with their minders, then I was introduced to this group, I found a home, you guys put up with a lot from me I guess because you can see I speak from the heart ❤️. I pray that in the future, people that are trying to understand what in the hell we have been going through, will find this group we are all part of and say, those people got it and stood up for values and ideals that our nation’s founders risked their lives for, I’m proud to stand with all of you.
Between the recent revelations by Frances Haugen on FB, the congressional hearings and now this RS piece with organizers naming top level people in Congress and Trump's staff, I'm feeling more confident this combination of events will finally be able to stitch together a direct connection to the very top at the WH, Congress and the GOP.
I am reminded that the women who originally planned the "rally" had planned it for later in January and that it was the orange dumpster himself who moved the date to January 6th and then became personally involved in planning it. I wish I could provide the source for that...