Gigi You may be right, but the $$$ involved may well be an impediment for many.
I am reminded of the barrels of glasses and people fishing in them to find a pair that ‘feels right.’ Often this simply is a matter of magnification. The same was true of some ‘magic hearing aids’ that simply magnified the sound.
However, these are better than nothing for those who have difficulty hearing (or seeing)/ My latest hearing aids cost over $5,000 totally out of pocket. I remember, when I first went to Germany in 1949 meeting an old lady with an elegant silver hearing trumpet. At least we have progressed somewhat.
Hearing aids are important for brain function as well as hearing. It remains my most disliked health care experiences from an economic and medical perspective. I first tried Costco as they were cheap in comparison to the audiologist. I returned the Costco as the clerks assistance was lacking. I recommend an independent audiologist if possible.
I finally broke down and got hearing helpers two years ago. My head got clearer. Audiologists track the frequencies you have problems with and program the devices specifically to your situation as a soundman would set up graphic equalizers for each different concert hall they work in
Simply upping the volume does not work
I think the key is to deregulate access to the devices themselves, encouraging a competitive price, after getting audio testing
My mom had a problem with having to replace her hearing aids constantly because they were falling out of her ears. I finally insisted that she get the kind that attach to the outside of her ears because she just could not afford to be paying the astronomical costs of the hearing aids that she was paying and they just could not fit to her ears because her ear was too small. Now she has not had to replace them and it helped her socially so much! She had a stroke right while she was missing her hearing aids and all of the treatment she got was more difficult because she could not hear well. It was such a difficult situation. I could see the huge difference the hearing aids have made in her life. I am grateful that they are included in the bill.
Some years back I had a hearing evaluation; it was one of the most interesting and lengthy medical appointments I’ve experienced, truly fascinating. Sitting in a sound-proof booth with headphones and being asked to repeat words fed into the headphones. I came to realize when I struggled with some sounds how much I used the ‘context’ of conversation to fill in the word—kinda like playing Jeopardy (at least I think that’s the show). At the end of the ‘test’, the audiologist showed me the results and, yes, I was in need of the aids, similar, but not exact loss in each ear. He pointed out which sounds ‘dropped out’ for me, only some, as for others my hearing is quite sharp. Go figure. When he told me how much the aids would cost, I gulped and replied “well I guess I’ll just have my friends yell at me!”. I could not afford them. Even now my MediCare supplemental insurance plan will only cover approximately half of what middle-of-the-road pair would cost. So, yeah, just amplifying all sound would not be best for me, and I do worry about OTC aids not coming with appropriate and necessary evaluation and support. I guess, at least, it’s a start.
Yes, thanks, Dave. I agree. Some insurance companies have paid a little for the last few years toward aids but does the new law lower costs through insurance too? I have Humana plan that required me to pay just $1000 each for mine. And they are very good ones. Humana covered the rest.
Mary, $1000 out of pocket is just too much! My mother ended up paying something like $20,000+ in hearing aid costs altogether and when I found this out I asked why the doctor who was wrongly fitting her did not absorb the cost. She did not want to ask this of him because of the need to be liked by the doctors that everyone has. Fear of being mistreated if one is not compliant and likable seems common. My mom is not like this in other situations at all. However, it seems like all of these costs are too much. In Germany one pays 10 Euros per hearing aid and the health insurance pays the rest including the cost of the visit with the audiologist of course. This is the legal limit that they can charge.
In Denmark if you have public insurance they are free of charge. Netherlands you are paying 0-25% of the cost. Norway pays full cost. Portugal they are 100 percent financed by government. Sweden they are free under national insurance. UK free with National Health Insurance. Other countries had complex formulas I am not listing here. This is from 2018. https://www.efhoh.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/State-of-Hearing-Aids-Provision-in-Europe-2018.pdf
The new law does not really cover the fitted hearing aids that my mom has or you have through your insurance, but the kind that you can get over the counter, you no longer need an audiologist to refer one. Given that hearing loss is thought to contribute to all sorts of other health problems such as falling and dementia, treating it seems important.
I really have conflicting feelings about this issue; these are really complex devices and I worry that the lack of support services and audiology care will create more problems for folks. I’ve worn hearing aids for about 10 years and they are definitely life changing....who will you go to for issues after picking them up at the drugstore? Who programs them for your particular hearing problem?
On this as on many other issues, those of us without deep pockets and/or state-of-the-art insurance generally go with the more affordable option even when it doesn't come with backup services. Often it works out fine: either we don't need the backup or we can find what we do need more cheaply. Sometimes it doesn't work out so fine, as when self-medicating a problem lands you in the ER. I hope that one of these days legislators and those in the various professional associations will realize that making quality care and products accessible to those of us without deep pockets and/or state-of-the-art insurance is a good deal for both the individuals affected and the whole society.
This question goes into the same bucket with "Why doesn't health insurance routinely cover dental care?" The answer comes down to special-interest lobbying and the power of the insurance industry.
You have to be a savvy cell phone user. You do get customer service and their apps give you instructions. These will be a huge game changer for everyone.
My husband is on the most recent of his hearing aids. The latest ones are obvious, but he says they do a better job and yes, he went to an audiologist. My voice is, unfortunately, difficult for the hearing challenged, so we have had many communication problems. There are other problems like sudden unexpected noises and noisy restaurants. I hope that OTC ones work for those who couldn't afford them otherwise because my husband's have not been cheap.
Michele, I agree. What’s important is to be able to improve hearing for safety and social reasons. But low income is an impediment. My Mother started wearing hearing aids in her mid to late eighties, (lived to be 97) although she would have benefited much earlier. Her insurance covered some of the costs but she still paid $4000 at a reputable audiologist. In about 2000. The warranty was excellent and helped because she needed numerous adjustments (had to take a taxi and their hours weren’t convenient) and because of her particular anatomy had problems with fit and sometimes keeping them in her ear. One time she noticed the left hearing aid was missing. She eventually found it under the bench at the bus stop. Hopefully more people will get the assistance they need and be able to afford the time and costs.
Irene The three year hearing aid warranty I find useful. Add a year for about $400. Adjustments are needed on occasion. The tougher thing is if you lose a hearing aid—something like $450 for the first replacement. I’m glad that I could retrieve my left hearing aid from my dog’s mouth before he chewed it. No such luck with my wife’s red rubber ear plugs. Bruno just passed a pair yesterday—makes the garden look fairly festive.
Keith, that warranty is essential, even extending it. So are the hearing aids essential. Good luck finding a missing device under a bench or in the dog’s mouth. It’s also a hassle as well as luck to lose and find one. And to be able to get back to the audiologist for the follow up and adjustments especially for people who live alone and don’t drive. I remember my mom intently looking at a speaker’s face before she ever had her ears tested. Now Medicare and many insurance companies make testing a part of a yearly exam. And even over the counter devices might be helpful and at least affordable for many who cannot pay thousands of dollars. For Medicare at least the hearing tests are part of the physical exams. Both the exams and over the counter devices are a start. Both supported by Dems. Remember the ACA. We have to call this insurance by it’s initials because Obamacare is too partisan. Another topic, another day.
I agree that cost is a problem. I have pulled a tiny part out of my husband's ear with tweezers...good thing I have a steady hand. He has had several pairs including ones he got online. He seems happy with the new ones....I haven't asked how much they cost.
Michele, aging and living alone, such a challenge. Lucky your husband has you and you’re adept at using the tweezers. And more, of course. You bring up just one of the many problems of aging. We do need each other and to be able to afford the devices in the first place. And get to the provider. I’ll stop there. The challenges.
We are in the old zone and I give much thought to this. I have much gratitude for our situation because I know lots of people are not in good situations. There was a story yesterday in the Oregonian about a 97 year old and her daughter who are about to be evicted and are having trouble finding a place. Something is wrong here. We don't care about our elders and despite all the talk, we don't care about children either.
Right on both counts, but occasionally there are glimmers of light. It’s shameful that all these human needs for the elderly, the young, the poor, the disenfranchised and (I could write
an essay right here) are political. And luck. We have to hope and some might pray. And we have to speak up and stand up and be active. It’s also more than sad that we have had excellent and successful services and programs that have been cut from budgets and always affecting the most vulnerable and voiceless.
People like to complain ad nauseam abut the unhoused for example, but are adamant that the solutions not be in their neighborhoods nor should they have to pay higher taxes.
Michele Your family travails with hearing aids reflect my own. Unexpected noises and my wife’s sudden comments that I garble. I wish women spoke as bass or alto. One salvation is text on some TV (esp British) series—-the high ranges I find vexing.
I have a low voice that if I deign to sing is alto. He doesn't hear high pitched sounds at all, so it's been me to say the car is making a high pitched sound for example. Maybe after reading your post that is a good thing. He does jump at unexpected sounds like the dog barking all of sudden or my saying something when he doesn't expect it. My hearing is good and I do admit that high pitched female voices can be annoying even to me. What really bothers me is the noise coming from our neighbor's shop where lots of the sounds are either very loud and often high-pitched. I don't want to feel like I am at the dentist's office. The metal sander is one of the worst.
Sometimes we on this page forget there are millions in the country who literally can't afford the luxury of proper health. Thanks for reminding us of that fact, Keith.
I compare over the counter hearing aids to reading glasses. At one time it was unheard of to have reading glasses. I wish my Grandmother would have had access to affordable "readers."
Uh no. Oh ye of little faith, the consumer will be empowered to shop the market to find the hearing aid that works for them. And they’ll no longer have to shop for the exorbitantly priced casket at the funeral home.
Hearing aids are a tool. We aren’t talking about heart pacemakers being sold at Walmart. We’re talking about a market that has been subject to windfall profits for years. Wait until you need one Mike.
Agreed. Buying hearing aids without at least an evaluation by an audiologist is ill-advised. While there are DIY hearing tests, you wouldn't let someone who read a medical book take out your appendix would you? Without an eval you may buy more or less hearing aid than you need
What if your hearing loss is a result of a progressive disease that left untreated could result in permanent hearing loss?
Here's a quote from an article I read today:
"Even though it will be easier to get a hearing aid, the president of the Hearing Industries Association, which represents hearing aid manufacturers, told NPR buyers should be careful about what they are buying.
“I hate to use the words ‘buyer beware,’ so instead it’s ‘buyer be educated’ about what you’re doing, what your needs are,” the group president Kate Carr told NPR."
Are you implying kickbacks, or some sort of secret fraternity handshake? Have you ever been to a qualified audiologist to see how much they have to invest in equipment to analyze your personal hearing loss? Loss of hearing is not just a simple "what did you say?" Suggest you get educated before exposing your prejudice.
Gosh Frank. You sure read a lot into a simple statement. These comments are considered a safe and civil discourse space. Disagreement is great. Belittling someone just isn't necessary. I hope you have a great Autumn day in your area.
This is not a simple statement. It indicates a belief system that includes conspiracy, collusion, and mistrust of health care providers. It is very difficult for me, a retired and hearing impaired physician, to let stand. Think about that.
You give me way too much credit for malfeasance Frank. No one is threatening your professional life nor personal issues when they comment. Most comments are done with intellectual vigor addressing the issue at hand. No one is maligning you. We could benefit a lot more from your professional expertise of the medical profession's viewpoint and your personal journey with hearing loss than listening to the whining about someone's comment hurt your feelings.
I didn't think that Frank was expressing 'hurt feelings' but, perhaps, an opinion about the integrity of most audiologists based on his experience. It is worthwhile to acknowledge both of your points of view.
Anyone who buys a hearing aid without seeing an ear doctor first is flushing away their money.
Gigi You may be right, but the $$$ involved may well be an impediment for many.
I am reminded of the barrels of glasses and people fishing in them to find a pair that ‘feels right.’ Often this simply is a matter of magnification. The same was true of some ‘magic hearing aids’ that simply magnified the sound.
However, these are better than nothing for those who have difficulty hearing (or seeing)/ My latest hearing aids cost over $5,000 totally out of pocket. I remember, when I first went to Germany in 1949 meeting an old lady with an elegant silver hearing trumpet. At least we have progressed somewhat.
Hearing aids are important for brain function as well as hearing. It remains my most disliked health care experiences from an economic and medical perspective. I first tried Costco as they were cheap in comparison to the audiologist. I returned the Costco as the clerks assistance was lacking. I recommend an independent audiologist if possible.
I finally broke down and got hearing helpers two years ago. My head got clearer. Audiologists track the frequencies you have problems with and program the devices specifically to your situation as a soundman would set up graphic equalizers for each different concert hall they work in
Simply upping the volume does not work
I think the key is to deregulate access to the devices themselves, encouraging a competitive price, after getting audio testing
My mom had a problem with having to replace her hearing aids constantly because they were falling out of her ears. I finally insisted that she get the kind that attach to the outside of her ears because she just could not afford to be paying the astronomical costs of the hearing aids that she was paying and they just could not fit to her ears because her ear was too small. Now she has not had to replace them and it helped her socially so much! She had a stroke right while she was missing her hearing aids and all of the treatment she got was more difficult because she could not hear well. It was such a difficult situation. I could see the huge difference the hearing aids have made in her life. I am grateful that they are included in the bill.
Mine fit behind the ear with a small wire attached to the plug that is secured in the ear canal. Comfortable and very secure
Some years back I had a hearing evaluation; it was one of the most interesting and lengthy medical appointments I’ve experienced, truly fascinating. Sitting in a sound-proof booth with headphones and being asked to repeat words fed into the headphones. I came to realize when I struggled with some sounds how much I used the ‘context’ of conversation to fill in the word—kinda like playing Jeopardy (at least I think that’s the show). At the end of the ‘test’, the audiologist showed me the results and, yes, I was in need of the aids, similar, but not exact loss in each ear. He pointed out which sounds ‘dropped out’ for me, only some, as for others my hearing is quite sharp. Go figure. When he told me how much the aids would cost, I gulped and replied “well I guess I’ll just have my friends yell at me!”. I could not afford them. Even now my MediCare supplemental insurance plan will only cover approximately half of what middle-of-the-road pair would cost. So, yeah, just amplifying all sound would not be best for me, and I do worry about OTC aids not coming with appropriate and necessary evaluation and support. I guess, at least, it’s a start.
Yes, thanks, Dave. I agree. Some insurance companies have paid a little for the last few years toward aids but does the new law lower costs through insurance too? I have Humana plan that required me to pay just $1000 each for mine. And they are very good ones. Humana covered the rest.
My insurance maxed out at 1500. That left me paying 2800. The improvement in quality of life? Priceless
Mary, $1000 out of pocket is just too much! My mother ended up paying something like $20,000+ in hearing aid costs altogether and when I found this out I asked why the doctor who was wrongly fitting her did not absorb the cost. She did not want to ask this of him because of the need to be liked by the doctors that everyone has. Fear of being mistreated if one is not compliant and likable seems common. My mom is not like this in other situations at all. However, it seems like all of these costs are too much. In Germany one pays 10 Euros per hearing aid and the health insurance pays the rest including the cost of the visit with the audiologist of course. This is the legal limit that they can charge.
In Denmark if you have public insurance they are free of charge. Netherlands you are paying 0-25% of the cost. Norway pays full cost. Portugal they are 100 percent financed by government. Sweden they are free under national insurance. UK free with National Health Insurance. Other countries had complex formulas I am not listing here. This is from 2018. https://www.efhoh.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/State-of-Hearing-Aids-Provision-in-Europe-2018.pdf
The new law does not really cover the fitted hearing aids that my mom has or you have through your insurance, but the kind that you can get over the counter, you no longer need an audiologist to refer one. Given that hearing loss is thought to contribute to all sorts of other health problems such as falling and dementia, treating it seems important.
https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/health/wellness-and-prevention/the-hidden-risks-of-hearing-loss
I have two friends (prior to OTC) to purchase hearing aids—with the assistance of an on-site audiologist—and they are thrilled.
I got mine at Costco and have been very satisfied.
Perhaps I could have been if I had patience. :)
I really have conflicting feelings about this issue; these are really complex devices and I worry that the lack of support services and audiology care will create more problems for folks. I’ve worn hearing aids for about 10 years and they are definitely life changing....who will you go to for issues after picking them up at the drugstore? Who programs them for your particular hearing problem?
On this as on many other issues, those of us without deep pockets and/or state-of-the-art insurance generally go with the more affordable option even when it doesn't come with backup services. Often it works out fine: either we don't need the backup or we can find what we do need more cheaply. Sometimes it doesn't work out so fine, as when self-medicating a problem lands you in the ER. I hope that one of these days legislators and those in the various professional associations will realize that making quality care and products accessible to those of us without deep pockets and/or state-of-the-art insurance is a good deal for both the individuals affected and the whole society.
If insurance pays towards glasses why not also towards hearing aids?
This question goes into the same bucket with "Why doesn't health insurance routinely cover dental care?" The answer comes down to special-interest lobbying and the power of the insurance industry.
You have to be a savvy cell phone user. You do get customer service and their apps give you instructions. These will be a huge game changer for everyone.
My husband is on the most recent of his hearing aids. The latest ones are obvious, but he says they do a better job and yes, he went to an audiologist. My voice is, unfortunately, difficult for the hearing challenged, so we have had many communication problems. There are other problems like sudden unexpected noises and noisy restaurants. I hope that OTC ones work for those who couldn't afford them otherwise because my husband's have not been cheap.
Michele, I agree. What’s important is to be able to improve hearing for safety and social reasons. But low income is an impediment. My Mother started wearing hearing aids in her mid to late eighties, (lived to be 97) although she would have benefited much earlier. Her insurance covered some of the costs but she still paid $4000 at a reputable audiologist. In about 2000. The warranty was excellent and helped because she needed numerous adjustments (had to take a taxi and their hours weren’t convenient) and because of her particular anatomy had problems with fit and sometimes keeping them in her ear. One time she noticed the left hearing aid was missing. She eventually found it under the bench at the bus stop. Hopefully more people will get the assistance they need and be able to afford the time and costs.
Irene The three year hearing aid warranty I find useful. Add a year for about $400. Adjustments are needed on occasion. The tougher thing is if you lose a hearing aid—something like $450 for the first replacement. I’m glad that I could retrieve my left hearing aid from my dog’s mouth before he chewed it. No such luck with my wife’s red rubber ear plugs. Bruno just passed a pair yesterday—makes the garden look fairly festive.
Keith, that warranty is essential, even extending it. So are the hearing aids essential. Good luck finding a missing device under a bench or in the dog’s mouth. It’s also a hassle as well as luck to lose and find one. And to be able to get back to the audiologist for the follow up and adjustments especially for people who live alone and don’t drive. I remember my mom intently looking at a speaker’s face before she ever had her ears tested. Now Medicare and many insurance companies make testing a part of a yearly exam. And even over the counter devices might be helpful and at least affordable for many who cannot pay thousands of dollars. For Medicare at least the hearing tests are part of the physical exams. Both the exams and over the counter devices are a start. Both supported by Dems. Remember the ACA. We have to call this insurance by it’s initials because Obamacare is too partisan. Another topic, another day.
🤣
I agree that cost is a problem. I have pulled a tiny part out of my husband's ear with tweezers...good thing I have a steady hand. He has had several pairs including ones he got online. He seems happy with the new ones....I haven't asked how much they cost.
Michele, aging and living alone, such a challenge. Lucky your husband has you and you’re adept at using the tweezers. And more, of course. You bring up just one of the many problems of aging. We do need each other and to be able to afford the devices in the first place. And get to the provider. I’ll stop there. The challenges.
.
We are in the old zone and I give much thought to this. I have much gratitude for our situation because I know lots of people are not in good situations. There was a story yesterday in the Oregonian about a 97 year old and her daughter who are about to be evicted and are having trouble finding a place. Something is wrong here. We don't care about our elders and despite all the talk, we don't care about children either.
Right on both counts, but occasionally there are glimmers of light. It’s shameful that all these human needs for the elderly, the young, the poor, the disenfranchised and (I could write
an essay right here) are political. And luck. We have to hope and some might pray. And we have to speak up and stand up and be active. It’s also more than sad that we have had excellent and successful services and programs that have been cut from budgets and always affecting the most vulnerable and voiceless.
People like to complain ad nauseam abut the unhoused for example, but are adamant that the solutions not be in their neighborhoods nor should they have to pay higher taxes.
Michele Your family travails with hearing aids reflect my own. Unexpected noises and my wife’s sudden comments that I garble. I wish women spoke as bass or alto. One salvation is text on some TV (esp British) series—-the high ranges I find vexing.
I have a low voice that if I deign to sing is alto. He doesn't hear high pitched sounds at all, so it's been me to say the car is making a high pitched sound for example. Maybe after reading your post that is a good thing. He does jump at unexpected sounds like the dog barking all of sudden or my saying something when he doesn't expect it. My hearing is good and I do admit that high pitched female voices can be annoying even to me. What really bothers me is the noise coming from our neighbor's shop where lots of the sounds are either very loud and often high-pitched. I don't want to feel like I am at the dentist's office. The metal sander is one of the worst.
Sometimes we on this page forget there are millions in the country who literally can't afford the luxury of proper health. Thanks for reminding us of that fact, Keith.
I compare over the counter hearing aids to reading glasses. At one time it was unheard of to have reading glasses. I wish my Grandmother would have had access to affordable "readers."
Uh no. Oh ye of little faith, the consumer will be empowered to shop the market to find the hearing aid that works for them. And they’ll no longer have to shop for the exorbitantly priced casket at the funeral home.
Capitalism to the rescue!!
If we only have unregulated, unfettered, legal GREED,
ALL WILL BE WELL!!
Hearing aids are a tool. We aren’t talking about heart pacemakers being sold at Walmart. We’re talking about a market that has been subject to windfall profits for years. Wait until you need one Mike.
Hear hear.
Agreed. Buying hearing aids without at least an evaluation by an audiologist is ill-advised. While there are DIY hearing tests, you wouldn't let someone who read a medical book take out your appendix would you? Without an eval you may buy more or less hearing aid than you need
As I sit typing with Big Lots readers on I couldn't disagree more. I respectfully point out that your comparison is an apples to oranges argument.
Why not let people decide for themselves?
What if your hearing loss is a result of a progressive disease that left untreated could result in permanent hearing loss?
Here's a quote from an article I read today:
"Even though it will be easier to get a hearing aid, the president of the Hearing Industries Association, which represents hearing aid manufacturers, told NPR buyers should be careful about what they are buying.
“I hate to use the words ‘buyer beware,’ so instead it’s ‘buyer be educated’ about what you’re doing, what your needs are,” the group president Kate Carr told NPR."
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/oct/18/hearing-aids-over-the-counter-walgreens-walmart
Maybe, but when my husband went to a doctor about his hearing loss, the doc sent him to an audiologist.
Of course he did. That's the club.
Are you implying kickbacks, or some sort of secret fraternity handshake? Have you ever been to a qualified audiologist to see how much they have to invest in equipment to analyze your personal hearing loss? Loss of hearing is not just a simple "what did you say?" Suggest you get educated before exposing your prejudice.
Gosh Frank. You sure read a lot into a simple statement. These comments are considered a safe and civil discourse space. Disagreement is great. Belittling someone just isn't necessary. I hope you have a great Autumn day in your area.
This is not a simple statement. It indicates a belief system that includes conspiracy, collusion, and mistrust of health care providers. It is very difficult for me, a retired and hearing impaired physician, to let stand. Think about that.
You give me way too much credit for malfeasance Frank. No one is threatening your professional life nor personal issues when they comment. Most comments are done with intellectual vigor addressing the issue at hand. No one is maligning you. We could benefit a lot more from your professional expertise of the medical profession's viewpoint and your personal journey with hearing loss than listening to the whining about someone's comment hurt your feelings.
I didn't think that Frank was expressing 'hurt feelings' but, perhaps, an opinion about the integrity of most audiologists based on his experience. It is worthwhile to acknowledge both of your points of view.
Fern. Honestly. Not sure why you are playing referee here.
Barbara, I offered my opinion. That isn't being a referee, and I will refrain of interpreting the tone of your responses.