There are days when I am grateful for the TFG era, for forcing our hidden caste system into bright light. I and so many other privileged white people could begin to understand what we did not know. Much of it was not taught in the Virginia schools where I went to high school, especially anything about oppression of any non white culture.…
There are days when I am grateful for the TFG era, for forcing our hidden caste system into bright light. I and so many other privileged white people could begin to understand what we did not know. Much of it was not taught in the Virginia schools where I went to high school, especially anything about oppression of any non white culture. I have been an adult for a long time and certainly could have found out about these things. But I was “busy” believing voting rights acts, and months celebrating women, or various cultures had righted the wrongs. But once you know, you know. I believe there can be correction and healing AND patriotism, coexisting. It will involve pain, discomfort and sacrifice. The essential tonic is knowledge, coming to us via many dedicated historians and delightful younger generation sources like Amanda Gorman. My thanks to every one of you.
Yes, while it's painful (and embarrassing) to admit that Trump had to be elected for me to get all the way to anti-racism, his election was a powerful goad and a deep recalibration of my assumptions about the people of this country.
I find myself in a similar boat, although I had started fighting this battle in earnest after Michael Brown was murdered in Ferguson, MO by law enforcement. I had to really stretch my ways of thinking about race and law enforcement.
**In case no one knows, retired cop, use of force trainer and hostage negotiator, living in an almost entirely white region of Oregon.
The hill you had to climb was so much steeper than mine; you have my admiration. I do not mean that you started out as more racist than me (than I? I can never keep it straight), but that the cultures within which you were and are operating may have been more likely to give cover to implicit (and explicit) bias. Good for you for digging deep. We all have so much work to do.
I agree, Reid and Ally. I've always been open to all groups and view equality across races, genders, and religions, but being forced to think otherwise helped me to learn and engage in anti-racism thoughts and actions. I've grown a lot the last 5 years.
Ally, I am a former Oregonian. After my degree in Broadcasting (74’) at the U of O. I worked at a TV station in Medford, Oregon. A friends husband worked as a cop in Ashland, Oregon. He said once riding with his partner that they saw a POC on the street. His partner said “ya there are about six of them here and we know where they all live.” After having lived with a person of color at the U of O. It came as such a shock. I never considered myself a a liberal. There where a number of friends from the Broadcasting department working there. Every executive at the station there Were white male chauvinist. They had an executive little club called “the Jolly boys”. After a couple of years they had to let this little “Jolly girl” into their group after I moved into sales. The FCC was going to challenge their license. We made a big joke out of it and made our own club we called ourselves the “Jolly Pee-Ons.”
I grew up in Medford, and graduated HS in 1976. I'm sure you knew (or knew of) Tam Moore; he is one of my best friend's Dad. What TV station did you work for, and who was your friend's husband? I got my degree in Criminology from SOSC in 1981 and knew a fair number of APD.
Lost your email. The person I went was Steve Deaton. He was there in the later 70's . It was only shortly then he got a job with Portland PD and went on from there to become a pilot for United.
I worked at KEMD I had the Promotions position when we changed it to KTVL. We did that when we sold the KMED call letter with the AM radio station. I don't know Tam he most have been at the other station. The fires there are just unbelievable. I spoke to friends in Portland this morning they were talking about the protests DT that are turning violent at night. Still. With only few arrests. She said she went through DT yesterday and there were 150 motorcycles lined up getting ready to do soon. They left quickly!
I have found memories of Southern Oregon. My only Fame to claim was that I help Anne Curry get her first job in TV. She went on to go to the TODAY show on NBC. Did you now David Sourer? His Dad was Pres. at SOSC. His sister worked at the Hungary Woodsman. I work with David at then KMED when I first got there. Good remembering with you .
Except that Michael Brown was not murdered . The grand jury and Eric Holder agreed.
From the liberal leaning WaPo
“So we wanted to set the record straight on the DOJ’s findings, especially after The Washington Post’s opinion writer Jonathan Capehart wrote that it was “built on a lie.” From time to time, we retroactively check statements as new information becomes available. In this case, the Justice Department has concluded that Wilson acted out of self-defense, and was justified in killing Brown.”
Legally justified in the existing context is one thing. Morally justified, including justification of that context, would be something else. If our police were trained to see people of color as us, not them; if trained to act to reduce violence, not inflict superior violence; then Michael Brown and a long list of other people would be alive today.
I agree that he was not prosecutable for murder, and I am normally more careful with my language than that.
The problem that I see with this "justification" is that (and I said this at the time, and was very unpopular in my non-cop social set) that in a very narrow window of time, to wit: the confrontation while the cop is seated in his patrol car and Mr. Brown is reaching in through the window <as I recall without looking up the details> that is a justified shoot. BUT: why was he seated in his patrol car while talking to Mr. Brown, why was he even talking with Mr. Brown in the first place, and did he say or do anything that may have provoked a violent response?
President Obama through his DOJ disagrees with you.
From the DOJ report.
This morning, the Justice Department announced the conclusion of our investigation and released a comprehensive, 87-page report documenting our findings and conclusions that the facts do not support the filing of criminal charges against Officer Darren Wilson in this case. Michael Brown’s death, though a tragedy, did not involve prosecutable conduct on the part of Officer Wilson.
“This conclusion represents the sound, considered, and independent judgment of the expert career prosecutors within the Department of Justice. I have been personally briefed on multiple occasions about these findings. I concur with the investigative team’s judgment and the determination about our inability to meet the required federal standard.
This outcome is supported by the facts we have found – but I also know these findings may not be consistent with some people’s expectations. To all those who have closely followed this case, and who have engaged in the important national dialogue it has inspired, I urge you to read this report in full. “
Not the result you wanted, but a conclusion based on fact.
Though the wakeup call was essential, the election of 1/45 was no boon to America or anyone except Putin. Division, treason, sedition, a coup attempt, and most grievous, half a million avoidable deaths . . . so much unnecessary suffering . . . tragic.
There's an old British saying from WW2 that "War is how Americans learn geography." Being a nation of hardheads, it takes a whole lot of whacking on the head to get the American Mule to recognize Reality.
Trump taught me that as much as I thought I was "woke" from the experiences of my life since the 60s and my political involvements, that I still had further to go. And that I had drunk from the poisoned glass of tribalism too.
I agree and will take your comment further by saying, 'correction and healing IS patriotic'. Isn't the very essence of democracy to have the freedom to right wrongs? And I agree, again, that knowledge is essential. In order to solve a problem, one must see and recognize the problem for what it is. It's a little like addiction, isn't it? One must first admit one has a problem before one can take the steps necessary to fix it.
The history I was taught in lily-white Glendale, CA, in the ‘40s and ‘50s, started with the Pilgrims, moved quickly to the founding fathers (emphasis on fathers) and jumped to scenes of wheat turbines spewing out our great agricultural products to show how prosperous and down to earth we were. Good clean soil, no dirt, especially on our hands.
As was the history that I was taught in lily-white (10% Hispanic) Glendale in the 60's and 70's. Glendale High School had 5 black students out of 3000. Some of the history teachers were forward thinking, though most of them were still a joke. Let it be remembered forever that Glendale Ca, was a Sundowner town,
In 1950 or so, an Indian family moved to Glendale; one of the sons, Nehru, was in my class. Some of the fine local citizens lit a cross on the family’s front lawn, thinking the family was Black. “Oops, honest mistake,” was the common reaction when told they were from India. My father and mother were horrified, but I think few others were.
Just as Ally above mentioned that she was a "use of force" trainer, there needs to be training of teachers in the proper way to instruct these sensitive topics of slavery and racism in our schools. I am a retired Special Education teacher from NJ. The history curriculum in NJ requires the teaching of slavery in our elementary schools (starting in 5th gade). I have witnessed and heard of teachers having their students engage in projects such as holding 'slave auctions' writing advertisements for the selling of slaves, and acting out the transporting of slaves in the hulls of the ships by having the students lay down on the classrooom rug and squeeze in as close as possible. Teachers have gotten in trouble, reports of these 'lessons' have gone on the news, etc. Yet, it continues to happen. There needs to be training for such curriculum because so many people just don't get it!
I went to high school in a fairly liberal suburb of Sacramento. We had one Black student and he ended up committing suicide. (I have no idea what the circumstances were and the two could be entirely unrelated. Still...).
That's interesting. We had one black student at my high school - an outstanding athlete in several sports, high achiever academically. Committed suicide the month before the 10th year class reunion.
I would have assumed that suicide rates among black men would be generally high, but it turns out that's not the case. Indigenous men #1, followed by white men. All others far behind. https://www.nimh.nih.gov/health/statistics/suicide
And history class in Texas in the 60s taught that "Lincoln freed the slaves. And the Texas Rangers were 'really good-guy heroes.' The end." (a pathetic indictment of the way textbooks have been co-opted and slanted for decades)
There are days when I am grateful for the TFG era, for forcing our hidden caste system into bright light. I and so many other privileged white people could begin to understand what we did not know. Much of it was not taught in the Virginia schools where I went to high school, especially anything about oppression of any non white culture. I have been an adult for a long time and certainly could have found out about these things. But I was “busy” believing voting rights acts, and months celebrating women, or various cultures had righted the wrongs. But once you know, you know. I believe there can be correction and healing AND patriotism, coexisting. It will involve pain, discomfort and sacrifice. The essential tonic is knowledge, coming to us via many dedicated historians and delightful younger generation sources like Amanda Gorman. My thanks to every one of you.
Yes, while it's painful (and embarrassing) to admit that Trump had to be elected for me to get all the way to anti-racism, his election was a powerful goad and a deep recalibration of my assumptions about the people of this country.
I find myself in a similar boat, although I had started fighting this battle in earnest after Michael Brown was murdered in Ferguson, MO by law enforcement. I had to really stretch my ways of thinking about race and law enforcement.
**In case no one knows, retired cop, use of force trainer and hostage negotiator, living in an almost entirely white region of Oregon.
The hill you had to climb was so much steeper than mine; you have my admiration. I do not mean that you started out as more racist than me (than I? I can never keep it straight), but that the cultures within which you were and are operating may have been more likely to give cover to implicit (and explicit) bias. Good for you for digging deep. We all have so much work to do.
I echo what Reid said below. I only wish there were many more of you in the profession.
I agree, Reid and Ally. I've always been open to all groups and view equality across races, genders, and religions, but being forced to think otherwise helped me to learn and engage in anti-racism thoughts and actions. I've grown a lot the last 5 years.
Ally, I am a former Oregonian. After my degree in Broadcasting (74’) at the U of O. I worked at a TV station in Medford, Oregon. A friends husband worked as a cop in Ashland, Oregon. He said once riding with his partner that they saw a POC on the street. His partner said “ya there are about six of them here and we know where they all live.” After having lived with a person of color at the U of O. It came as such a shock. I never considered myself a a liberal. There where a number of friends from the Broadcasting department working there. Every executive at the station there Were white male chauvinist. They had an executive little club called “the Jolly boys”. After a couple of years they had to let this little “Jolly girl” into their group after I moved into sales. The FCC was going to challenge their license. We made a big joke out of it and made our own club we called ourselves the “Jolly Pee-Ons.”
I grew up in Medford, and graduated HS in 1976. I'm sure you knew (or knew of) Tam Moore; he is one of my best friend's Dad. What TV station did you work for, and who was your friend's husband? I got my degree in Criminology from SOSC in 1981 and knew a fair number of APD.
Lost your email. The person I went was Steve Deaton. He was there in the later 70's . It was only shortly then he got a job with Portland PD and went on from there to become a pilot for United.
I worked at KEMD I had the Promotions position when we changed it to KTVL. We did that when we sold the KMED call letter with the AM radio station. I don't know Tam he most have been at the other station. The fires there are just unbelievable. I spoke to friends in Portland this morning they were talking about the protests DT that are turning violent at night. Still. With only few arrests. She said she went through DT yesterday and there were 150 motorcycles lined up getting ready to do soon. They left quickly!
I have found memories of Southern Oregon. My only Fame to claim was that I help Anne Curry get her first job in TV. She went on to go to the TODAY show on NBC. Did you now David Sourer? His Dad was Pres. at SOSC. His sister worked at the Hungary Woodsman. I work with David at then KMED when I first got there. Good remembering with you .
Stay safer.
Thank you!
Except that Michael Brown was not murdered . The grand jury and Eric Holder agreed.
From the liberal leaning WaPo
“So we wanted to set the record straight on the DOJ’s findings, especially after The Washington Post’s opinion writer Jonathan Capehart wrote that it was “built on a lie.” From time to time, we retroactively check statements as new information becomes available. In this case, the Justice Department has concluded that Wilson acted out of self-defense, and was justified in killing Brown.”
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fact-checker/wp/2015/03/19/hands-up-dont-shoot-did-not-happen-in-ferguson/
https://www.justice.gov/opa/speech/attorney-general-holder-delivers-update-investigations-ferguson-missouri
Legally justified in the existing context is one thing. Morally justified, including justification of that context, would be something else. If our police were trained to see people of color as us, not them; if trained to act to reduce violence, not inflict superior violence; then Michael Brown and a long list of other people would be alive today.
I agree that he was not prosecutable for murder, and I am normally more careful with my language than that.
The problem that I see with this "justification" is that (and I said this at the time, and was very unpopular in my non-cop social set) that in a very narrow window of time, to wit: the confrontation while the cop is seated in his patrol car and Mr. Brown is reaching in through the window <as I recall without looking up the details> that is a justified shoot. BUT: why was he seated in his patrol car while talking to Mr. Brown, why was he even talking with Mr. Brown in the first place, and did he say or do anything that may have provoked a violent response?
Did you know the sun's going to rise in the west tomorrow? They're wrong. Which frequently happens, and involves both Ds and Rs.
President Obama through his DOJ disagrees with you.
From the DOJ report.
This morning, the Justice Department announced the conclusion of our investigation and released a comprehensive, 87-page report documenting our findings and conclusions that the facts do not support the filing of criminal charges against Officer Darren Wilson in this case. Michael Brown’s death, though a tragedy, did not involve prosecutable conduct on the part of Officer Wilson.
“This conclusion represents the sound, considered, and independent judgment of the expert career prosecutors within the Department of Justice. I have been personally briefed on multiple occasions about these findings. I concur with the investigative team’s judgment and the determination about our inability to meet the required federal standard.
This outcome is supported by the facts we have found – but I also know these findings may not be consistent with some people’s expectations. To all those who have closely followed this case, and who have engaged in the important national dialogue it has inspired, I urge you to read this report in full. “
Not the result you wanted, but a conclusion based on fact.
Though the wakeup call was essential, the election of 1/45 was no boon to America or anyone except Putin. Division, treason, sedition, a coup attempt, and most grievous, half a million avoidable deaths . . . so much unnecessary suffering . . . tragic.
There's an old British saying from WW2 that "War is how Americans learn geography." Being a nation of hardheads, it takes a whole lot of whacking on the head to get the American Mule to recognize Reality.
True saying from the Brits. but again, there's violent imagery. Please skip it.
Trump taught me that as much as I thought I was "woke" from the experiences of my life since the 60s and my political involvements, that I still had further to go. And that I had drunk from the poisoned glass of tribalism too.
I agree and will take your comment further by saying, 'correction and healing IS patriotic'. Isn't the very essence of democracy to have the freedom to right wrongs? And I agree, again, that knowledge is essential. In order to solve a problem, one must see and recognize the problem for what it is. It's a little like addiction, isn't it? One must first admit one has a problem before one can take the steps necessary to fix it.
The history I was taught in lily-white Glendale, CA, in the ‘40s and ‘50s, started with the Pilgrims, moved quickly to the founding fathers (emphasis on fathers) and jumped to scenes of wheat turbines spewing out our great agricultural products to show how prosperous and down to earth we were. Good clean soil, no dirt, especially on our hands.
As was the history that I was taught in lily-white (10% Hispanic) Glendale in the 60's and 70's. Glendale High School had 5 black students out of 3000. Some of the history teachers were forward thinking, though most of them were still a joke. Let it be remembered forever that Glendale Ca, was a Sundowner town,
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sundown_town
In 1950 or so, an Indian family moved to Glendale; one of the sons, Nehru, was in my class. Some of the fine local citizens lit a cross on the family’s front lawn, thinking the family was Black. “Oops, honest mistake,” was the common reaction when told they were from India. My father and mother were horrified, but I think few others were.
My High School history teacher didn't like me so he nicknamed me "Adolph"... That would get your a** handed to you these days...
Just as Ally above mentioned that she was a "use of force" trainer, there needs to be training of teachers in the proper way to instruct these sensitive topics of slavery and racism in our schools. I am a retired Special Education teacher from NJ. The history curriculum in NJ requires the teaching of slavery in our elementary schools (starting in 5th gade). I have witnessed and heard of teachers having their students engage in projects such as holding 'slave auctions' writing advertisements for the selling of slaves, and acting out the transporting of slaves in the hulls of the ships by having the students lay down on the classrooom rug and squeeze in as close as possible. Teachers have gotten in trouble, reports of these 'lessons' have gone on the news, etc. Yet, it continues to happen. There needs to be training for such curriculum because so many people just don't get it!
I went to high school in a fairly liberal suburb of Sacramento. We had one Black student and he ended up committing suicide. (I have no idea what the circumstances were and the two could be entirely unrelated. Still...).
That's interesting. We had one black student at my high school - an outstanding athlete in several sports, high achiever academically. Committed suicide the month before the 10th year class reunion.
I would have assumed that suicide rates among black men would be generally high, but it turns out that's not the case. Indigenous men #1, followed by white men. All others far behind. https://www.nimh.nih.gov/health/statistics/suicide
And history class in Texas in the 60s taught that "Lincoln freed the slaves. And the Texas Rangers were 'really good-guy heroes.' The end." (a pathetic indictment of the way textbooks have been co-opted and slanted for decades)
And slaves were mostly happy agricultural workers who were, by and large, treated well.
I didn't learn anything like that. But then I went to a progressive private secondary school in Massachusetts.
That was pretty much the standard tale for us then.
Don't get me wrong, slavery was WRONG in this telling. But it wasn't too bad. 🙄
Trump taught us what we were in danger of losing through complacency.
Remind me TFG, please?
"That F-ing Guy", I believe. AKA Donald
;D no wonder Google search couldn’t help!
We speak our own esoteric language here on LFAA.
Or The Former Guy
The Former Guy
Also "That F-ing Guy"