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Liz Ayer, Nyc/MA's avatar

I think I agree with you. It’s a thorny problem and I wonder how it will work itself out. Our country needs this bill to protect voting rights and honestly it’s 2021 and it’s like we’re still fighting a civil war. We spend so much time fighting when we could be working together.

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MLMinET's avatar

We ARE still fighting a civil war ... perhaps of a different nature, though.

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L duffy's avatar

Yeah, now the southern racists don't want to leave, they just want to dictate.

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L duffy's avatar

And all the while, shouting, "freedom".

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Liz Ayer, Nyc/MA's avatar

My husband went down to Savannah one year when we were friends and helped officiate some sailboat races. He said he and his team had some awkward interactions and they decided they just didn’t enjoy the southerners. I just want them to turn a corner get over it. Actually they should apologize for seceding and creating this never ending mess. I guess it’s like a huge family rift that goes on and on.

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Liz Ayer, Nyc/MA's avatar

So on a certain level I have to say this is completely crazy and maybe why my French friends say you Americans just love to fight. I’m an American and I don’t like fighting— I’ll do it if I have to but I’d rather get along. From my perspective and we do have a southern daughter in law-/ it’s almost like they had to convince themselves that slavery was really ok and that the damn Yankees just destroyed everything and that they’ve got to stick together in this opinion. Meanwhile there are no more working plantations that I’m aware of and how many years has it been. Why can’t they just get over it 146 years later?

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Diana (Atlanta, GA)'s avatar

That's a mighty broad brush you're painting with. There are plenty of southerners who are just as opposed to racism as I assume you are. I'm one of them.

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Mitchell Ash's avatar

I grew up in the south, and will stop using the broad brush when DEMs take a few more Senate seats and Prez votes in that region. So far, folks like you don't seem to be in the majority there.

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TPJ (MA)'s avatar

Dear Diana, thank you for standing strong. I have several dear relatives in VA and LA who stand with you. Yes, it's tempting to unfairly broad-brush the South, especially when outsiders forget about Blacks who are true Southerners too. But the most noisy high-profile Southerners are not liberal like y'all, and it's they who shape the region's national image. The Southern forces of reaction have a long and dishonorable history of suppressing dissent. You know this far better than we New England Yankees (as distinguished from NY Yankees), so refs. are largely for others. Hang in there!

P Daniel, Standing at the Crossroads

C Degler, The Other South

J Franklin, The Militant South

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Diana (Atlanta, GA)'s avatar

There are lots more like me, I'm happy to say. Nevertheless, I'm guilty too, I've done my share of broad-brushing places like Texas so...

Also, thanks for the references!

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TPJ (MA)'s avatar

Any nonfiction recs from you are welcome, on the South or other topics.

Pete Daniel is perhaps the greatest Southern historian since C Vann Woodward, and SATC is a witty, shrewd survey of the 20C. On the postwar triumph of air-conditioning: "The old culture of sweat has been purged from most cities and towns."

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Diana (Atlanta, GA)'s avatar

Fair enough, Mitchell! We'll flip the whole place yet. :)

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Liz Ayer, Nyc/MA's avatar

I am glad to hear that and assume as much because of the vote in Georgia.

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Diana (Atlanta, GA)'s avatar

Yep, November was amazing and January 5th was a glorious day here in Georgia - so quickly overshadowed by the events of the 6th.

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kim  CR🌈🌴😎's avatar

Good morning, Liz.

https://www.mic.com/articles/88461/a-modern-day-slave-plantation-exists-and-it-s-thriving-in-the-heart-of-america

Just went down a rabbit hole exploring the current state of plantations. They are still around, many as tourist spots, but Angola, it was a plantation and now is a prison plantation. The lede photograph is just horror.

My family of origin, god-fearing fundamentalists, hold tightly to a patriarchal position of white male supremacy. The god/father figure owns the chattel (land, women, children, animals). The entitlement of ownership gives rise to the abuses of power over. These men (and women who become honorary men [aka 'token torturers' see Mary

Daly]) don't have to own Black people to continue the culture, they just want everyone to "know their place" and stay in it.

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Liz Ayer, Nyc/MA's avatar

Thanks for the explanation— now I know why our Harvard/Stanford educated southern daughter in law lets her husband control everything and barely says boo at the dinner table—I’ve never been able to fathom it. Thank you!

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janjamm's avatar

It's odd that the French, whose streets are often filled with the Gilet Jaunes, riot police, tractor protests, and who accept the clearing of the Calais "jungle", etc, think Americans "love to fight." Granted, the US probably racks up more protests, especially in smaller communities, but it was the American Revolution that actually inspired France's will to overcome their monarchy! Rousseau's words “Man is born free and everywhere he is in chains” continue to inspire movements around the world. So, I say, France should be proud to have provided the psychological underpinnings for America's dedication to freedom and the continual struggle it demands.

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TPJ (MA)'s avatar

Et maintenant, mes amis, nous chantons avec Victor Laszlo.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cOeFhSzoTuc

Toujours encore!

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janjamm's avatar

Drôle!!

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Liz Ayer, Nyc/MA's avatar

Oui Janjamm all u say is true but the French are full of contradictions unlike us. Sorry I’m being sarcastic.

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janjamm's avatar

I AM french, and full of contradictions! 😂

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Liz Ayer, Nyc/MA's avatar

Oui moi aussi👏🏻

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Pensa_VT's avatar

It is difficult to work with supremacists for All The People's rights.

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Liz Ayer, Nyc/MA's avatar

For sure and they don’t come out front and say I’m a white supremacist either— for some of them it’s an unconscious drive.

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