I'm uncomfortable with any symbol of nationalism, flags included. For most of us, at least those who didn't immigrate to the US, being born there was an act of serendipity so nothing to be proud of. Being born anywhere, is due to decisions made by our parents, so no achievement on our part and again nothing to be proud of. Once we engage…
I'm uncomfortable with any symbol of nationalism, flags included. For most of us, at least those who didn't immigrate to the US, being born there was an act of serendipity so nothing to be proud of. Being born anywhere, is due to decisions made by our parents, so no achievement on our part and again nothing to be proud of. Once we engage in nationalism, we are saying that our group is more valuable than other groups - something I think we are at least partially hardwired to do. But, that same nationalism allows people to do the most horrendous things to other people, who just happened to have been born where they were born. At the very least it can allow us to believe that others matter less than we do so it's fine to send troops to their shores to kill them.
Thank you J Nol. Exactly my belief as well. Nations are fairly recent inventions and its invention is at the heart of our ongoing conflicts and, likely our eventual demise. As you factually state, all humans just happen to be born and raised in a particular culture and a political environment. As you stated, no creature decides where and when to come into existence. Consequently, when we begin our individual existences, we are cultured within that accidental environment and supposed to absorb those traditions and teachings as if all others are not as worthy as our own. But when one thinks this through, this focus on one’s nation, religion, culture, class, etc, all of which are accidental, are the foundational cause of conflicts ever since civilisation was introduced. No matter where one travels, what it is to be human on the most fundamental levels are the same. This is proved over and over throughout eons. If an infant from an entirely different race and culture, is adopted and raised that as one’s own, the only difference for that person through her or his life, in that adopted environment would be her or his physical appearance, which makes racism just plain ignorant. That is why nationalism does not help us to lead to a better and peaceful planet.
This reminds me of an old movie, "The Gods Must be Crazy". that gave us a look at what happens when humans begin to have 'stuff" that others don't have. Does this lead to borders to keep others away from our "stuff" and hierarchies of people who have a lot of stuff and those who have varying degrees of less of it going down the pyramid?
Right on point, J! I read a couple of books about the beginning of human civilisations. According to those the have the expertise in this field, when humankind discovered it is possible to plant seeds and grow ‘stuff’, (to borrow terminology from another ‘expert’) humans had to form what would eventually become armies as the lands growing stuff required protection from other humans whose stuff were failing. Consequently we have villages and then castles etc etc. I wonder who was the gender that got it in head that because they were ‘better’ at protecting their accumulated lands? Anyway, that film, The Gods Must Be Crazy, brilliantly lampooned our craziness. Must try to find it and watch it again. Thanks for the memory J. Nol.
Keep it in perspective. Flags have been around since the Ancient Greco-Roman period. It is symbolism. It is identity. The Flag of the Confederacy is seen by some as a symbol of racism and ethic slaughter; evil. Yes, of course, the American Flag can be seen in the same light, especially by certain foreign countries where the U.S. all but destroyed their government.
I am keeping it in perspective. That's why I reject the use of or "protection" of symbols. And, I don't use it as a way to identify myself, having lived in several different countries. That they've been around for such a long time doesn't mean they should continue to hold such power over us. When I see a crowd of people waving them, for a sports event, or a parade, or standing with their hands over their hearts and pledging allegiance to one, I cringe. I also hear the echoes of crowds of people yelling heil in adulation of a small mustachioed fellow. No. No flags for me.
Well, as a U.S. Veteran whose family has served in our Military since The
American Revolutionary War, I differentiate between symbolism and "such power over us". Flags are tribal insignia/banners. I respect your position/take. For me, "pride of country" does not then allow me to ignore or negate the bad my country has committed.
I'm uncomfortable with any symbol of nationalism, flags included. For most of us, at least those who didn't immigrate to the US, being born there was an act of serendipity so nothing to be proud of. Being born anywhere, is due to decisions made by our parents, so no achievement on our part and again nothing to be proud of. Once we engage in nationalism, we are saying that our group is more valuable than other groups - something I think we are at least partially hardwired to do. But, that same nationalism allows people to do the most horrendous things to other people, who just happened to have been born where they were born. At the very least it can allow us to believe that others matter less than we do so it's fine to send troops to their shores to kill them.
Thank you J Nol. Exactly my belief as well. Nations are fairly recent inventions and its invention is at the heart of our ongoing conflicts and, likely our eventual demise. As you factually state, all humans just happen to be born and raised in a particular culture and a political environment. As you stated, no creature decides where and when to come into existence. Consequently, when we begin our individual existences, we are cultured within that accidental environment and supposed to absorb those traditions and teachings as if all others are not as worthy as our own. But when one thinks this through, this focus on one’s nation, religion, culture, class, etc, all of which are accidental, are the foundational cause of conflicts ever since civilisation was introduced. No matter where one travels, what it is to be human on the most fundamental levels are the same. This is proved over and over throughout eons. If an infant from an entirely different race and culture, is adopted and raised that as one’s own, the only difference for that person through her or his life, in that adopted environment would be her or his physical appearance, which makes racism just plain ignorant. That is why nationalism does not help us to lead to a better and peaceful planet.
This reminds me of an old movie, "The Gods Must be Crazy". that gave us a look at what happens when humans begin to have 'stuff" that others don't have. Does this lead to borders to keep others away from our "stuff" and hierarchies of people who have a lot of stuff and those who have varying degrees of less of it going down the pyramid?
Right on point, J! I read a couple of books about the beginning of human civilisations. According to those the have the expertise in this field, when humankind discovered it is possible to plant seeds and grow ‘stuff’, (to borrow terminology from another ‘expert’) humans had to form what would eventually become armies as the lands growing stuff required protection from other humans whose stuff were failing. Consequently we have villages and then castles etc etc. I wonder who was the gender that got it in head that because they were ‘better’ at protecting their accumulated lands? Anyway, that film, The Gods Must Be Crazy, brilliantly lampooned our craziness. Must try to find it and watch it again. Thanks for the memory J. Nol.
Keep it in perspective. Flags have been around since the Ancient Greco-Roman period. It is symbolism. It is identity. The Flag of the Confederacy is seen by some as a symbol of racism and ethic slaughter; evil. Yes, of course, the American Flag can be seen in the same light, especially by certain foreign countries where the U.S. all but destroyed their government.
I am keeping it in perspective. That's why I reject the use of or "protection" of symbols. And, I don't use it as a way to identify myself, having lived in several different countries. That they've been around for such a long time doesn't mean they should continue to hold such power over us. When I see a crowd of people waving them, for a sports event, or a parade, or standing with their hands over their hearts and pledging allegiance to one, I cringe. I also hear the echoes of crowds of people yelling heil in adulation of a small mustachioed fellow. No. No flags for me.
Well, as a U.S. Veteran whose family has served in our Military since The
American Revolutionary War, I differentiate between symbolism and "such power over us". Flags are tribal insignia/banners. I respect your position/take. For me, "pride of country" does not then allow me to ignore or negate the bad my country has committed.