As so much in the Bible, likely apocryphal. But for a reason: it is an excellent example of the use of metaphor to teach that change is possible, that even Jesus as messiah was capable both of being wrong, and of learning from the least among us. And changing as a result. Thank you, Melinda, for reminding us of this important lesson.
As so much in the Bible, likely apocryphal. But for a reason: it is an excellent example of the use of metaphor to teach that change is possible, that even Jesus as messiah was capable both of being wrong, and of learning from the least among us. And changing as a result. Thank you, Melinda, for reminding us of this important lesson.
Anne When I was in Sunday School I was not taught the difference between the Old and the New Testament. Later I learned that the New focused on Jesus Christ, love, and forgiveness, while the god of the Old Testament could Vicious and vengeful.
Mmm, yes. As a child I was taught that the Old Testament was history, and that the New Testament was about God sending his only child to live among people and teach them the way to salvation, that being "Do unto others...."
I was taught that in Jewish tradition, many stories were not meant to be taken literally: they were metaphors for things that needed to be remembered but dangerous to speak aloud literally. I cannot say anything about the truth of this, not being Jewish, but this is what Jewish friends explained to me, and I've read something about it in some of my explorations. So I came to understand that the Old Testament has to be read in a different way than the New Testament.
I learned the new teachings were taught orally for a long time before being written down by people who did not know Jesus and whose stories varied. Jesus spoke Aramaic, while the writers spoke and wrote Greek that was later translated into various other languages. That many versions of stories existed and there was not agreement about which were valid representations of what Jesus taught and did. That some of the tellers and writers were women who were ignored until copies of their stories were found among other spiritual writings. That the stories existed independently from each other until followers began to gather stories they believed were about Jesus together, with different groups often gathering different stories. That the time came when it became politically expedient to choose some stories to be printed together as dogma, and so there came to be a number of different books of scripture (scripture=writing; bible=book) that scholars are still trying to sort out.
A friend who was a pastor and biblical scholar (PhD), as well as a social activist, told me it is likely that the person represented as Jesus was probably a compendium of a number of different people whose stories came to be connected through oral transmission. Recently someone published a book claiming that Jesus had been a Buddhist monk. This is actually a belief I've held for a long time: Buddhist teaching had been spreading in all directions from India for centuries, and in the area we call the middle east, there had been a number of teachers going back at least 200 years before Jesus whose teachings reflected buddhist philosophy- as did Jesus.
I don't claim to be any kind of authority on the history of Christianity, but that is a kind of brief map of part of my journey, based on scholarly and spiritual study. What the Old Testament is and what it means depends on how it is defined. The Torah is five books, and as the old sayings goes "all the is commentary- that is, interpretation. What books are included in the Christian version of "Old Testament" depends on the sect. Ditto the New Testament. And the meaning of both depends on what kind of assumptions one brings to reading.
Anne The Old Testament is a collection of stories assembled by diverse writers over many centuries. The Torah, purportedly the Books of Moses, were actually written 400-500 years after the death of Moses. One might assume that there was some variation as this oral history was passed from generation to generation.
The тАШgodтАЩ in the Old Testament evolved until, by about 700 BCE, there was a single Jewish god. He (she?) could be vengeful.
After Jesus, born and died a Jew, there was a concerted effort to create a тАШJesus religion.тАЩ Paul was important in gentrifying this new religion. Within about 80 years four Gospels were written that provided diverse insights into the man called Jesus. Except for the book of Acts, there is virtually no mention of Jesus or тАШChristianityтАЩ in Roman records for the following century.
There was a strong insistence that the New Testament was the world of God. Those who objected often were burned. In the 19th century German scholars commenced an analysis of the New Testament. This has subsequently evolved. By favorite source is Bart Erhman of the University of North Carolina.
Though many books have been written about Jesus (Christ), they all rely on interpreting the stories of the Gospels, which were written at different times for different reasons.
I consider Jesus as the living symbol of love, inclusion, and forgiveness. Singing тАЬOnward Christian SoldiersтАЩ would seem blasphemy of what Jesus represents. Martin Luther split from the Catholic Church and was the basis for the spread of Protestantism, while promoted wars and divisions throughout Europe.
Today the тАШevangelical ChristiansтАЩ seem the antithesis of what Jesus represents. Some pastors, in their palatial settings, claim that the New Testament is the literal word of God. Moreover, the hatred that they project is the antithesis of JesusтАЩs teachings.
And the reason this is important is because these writings and the way they are interpreted have had an immense influence in what people in western societies believe are appropriate (or, perhaps, want others to believe what they want it to mean for their own purposes that have nothing to do with the teachings).
As so much in the Bible, likely apocryphal. But for a reason: it is an excellent example of the use of metaphor to teach that change is possible, that even Jesus as messiah was capable both of being wrong, and of learning from the least among us. And changing as a result. Thank you, Melinda, for reminding us of this important lesson.
Anne When I was in Sunday School I was not taught the difference between the Old and the New Testament. Later I learned that the New focused on Jesus Christ, love, and forgiveness, while the god of the Old Testament could Vicious and vengeful.
Mmm, yes. As a child I was taught that the Old Testament was history, and that the New Testament was about God sending his only child to live among people and teach them the way to salvation, that being "Do unto others...."
I was taught that in Jewish tradition, many stories were not meant to be taken literally: they were metaphors for things that needed to be remembered but dangerous to speak aloud literally. I cannot say anything about the truth of this, not being Jewish, but this is what Jewish friends explained to me, and I've read something about it in some of my explorations. So I came to understand that the Old Testament has to be read in a different way than the New Testament.
I learned the new teachings were taught orally for a long time before being written down by people who did not know Jesus and whose stories varied. Jesus spoke Aramaic, while the writers spoke and wrote Greek that was later translated into various other languages. That many versions of stories existed and there was not agreement about which were valid representations of what Jesus taught and did. That some of the tellers and writers were women who were ignored until copies of their stories were found among other spiritual writings. That the stories existed independently from each other until followers began to gather stories they believed were about Jesus together, with different groups often gathering different stories. That the time came when it became politically expedient to choose some stories to be printed together as dogma, and so there came to be a number of different books of scripture (scripture=writing; bible=book) that scholars are still trying to sort out.
A friend who was a pastor and biblical scholar (PhD), as well as a social activist, told me it is likely that the person represented as Jesus was probably a compendium of a number of different people whose stories came to be connected through oral transmission. Recently someone published a book claiming that Jesus had been a Buddhist monk. This is actually a belief I've held for a long time: Buddhist teaching had been spreading in all directions from India for centuries, and in the area we call the middle east, there had been a number of teachers going back at least 200 years before Jesus whose teachings reflected buddhist philosophy- as did Jesus.
I don't claim to be any kind of authority on the history of Christianity, but that is a kind of brief map of part of my journey, based on scholarly and spiritual study. What the Old Testament is and what it means depends on how it is defined. The Torah is five books, and as the old sayings goes "all the is commentary- that is, interpretation. What books are included in the Christian version of "Old Testament" depends on the sect. Ditto the New Testament. And the meaning of both depends on what kind of assumptions one brings to reading.
So, Keith, there is something to think about.
Anne The Old Testament is a collection of stories assembled by diverse writers over many centuries. The Torah, purportedly the Books of Moses, were actually written 400-500 years after the death of Moses. One might assume that there was some variation as this oral history was passed from generation to generation.
The тАШgodтАЩ in the Old Testament evolved until, by about 700 BCE, there was a single Jewish god. He (she?) could be vengeful.
After Jesus, born and died a Jew, there was a concerted effort to create a тАШJesus religion.тАЩ Paul was important in gentrifying this new religion. Within about 80 years four Gospels were written that provided diverse insights into the man called Jesus. Except for the book of Acts, there is virtually no mention of Jesus or тАШChristianityтАЩ in Roman records for the following century.
There was a strong insistence that the New Testament was the world of God. Those who objected often were burned. In the 19th century German scholars commenced an analysis of the New Testament. This has subsequently evolved. By favorite source is Bart Erhman of the University of North Carolina.
Though many books have been written about Jesus (Christ), they all rely on interpreting the stories of the Gospels, which were written at different times for different reasons.
I consider Jesus as the living symbol of love, inclusion, and forgiveness. Singing тАЬOnward Christian SoldiersтАЩ would seem blasphemy of what Jesus represents. Martin Luther split from the Catholic Church and was the basis for the spread of Protestantism, while promoted wars and divisions throughout Europe.
Today the тАШevangelical ChristiansтАЩ seem the antithesis of what Jesus represents. Some pastors, in their palatial settings, claim that the New Testament is the literal word of God. Moreover, the hatred that they project is the antithesis of JesusтАЩs teachings.
Lots more, but now itтАЩs dinner time.
And the reason this is important is because these writings and the way they are interpreted have had an immense influence in what people in western societies believe are appropriate (or, perhaps, want others to believe what they want it to mean for their own purposes that have nothing to do with the teachings).