In the 21st century we are still held hostage by a bunch of guys in dresses, who sell the idea that instead of thinking for themselves people ought to follow the "teachings" of a magical sky parent. (I don't care if they do wear dresses, but their opposition to women being given first class citizen status, while cross dressing is telling).
In the 21st century we are still held hostage by a bunch of guys in dresses, who sell the idea that instead of thinking for themselves people ought to follow the "teachings" of a magical sky parent. (I don't care if they do wear dresses, but their opposition to women being given first class citizen status, while cross dressing is telling).
J. Nol, it's not difficult to see that they closely resemble the MAGA crowd. They are fed by their desire to subjugate and have total control, and have little regard for anyone else's welfare or whether they are responsible for collateral damage.
One need only read the history of the Catholic Church to plainly that the welfare of others and any regard for collateral damages is not a part of their faith tradition.
And I say that knowing Catholic Charities does some wonderful things--they do so despite the interference of the Vatican.
The teachings are real, whatever flavor you take, and they all boil down to 1) Love and respect God and 2) Love and respect your neighbor as you do yourself. No money in that though and people who confuse the various churches and their mundane teachings with the Word of God are the victims of their own failure to learn.
I don't take any of these "flavors". Telling people how to live their lives suggests that some of us have the answers, and others don't or can't find those answers for themselves. I'm all for listening to what people who are wiser than I, say about things, but ultimately, it's up to each of us to figure out this thing called life. I certainly don't find it useful to take seriously other people's superstitions. And I resent superstitions being used to justify all sorts of behaviors and policies.
J As I became considerably older, I find that often people with questions about their lives often benefit most by having a good listener. And while listening, they can say тАШuh uh,тАЩ тАШthatтАЩs interesting,тАЩ and тАШcould you elaborate.
Once you became a passive listener, the other person becomes increasingly comfortable in discussing her/his situation. Instead of endeavoring to provide тАШanswers,тАЩ asking questions may be what the individual most needs.
And who has the тАШanswers?тАЩ If we can help a person probe more into themselves, this might lead to the тАШleast worst alternative.тАЩ
My wife and I practiced this with our daughter this afternoon as she is considering major surgery. We felt it important tab at she decide what was best with her body (sheтАЩs 51). We feel that she is on track towards a resolution that suits her.
Sounds like a good strategy and one that ensures she knows she has your support. God be with her in making the decision and with all of you for a positive outcome.
Except for those of us who aren't believers. It is a puzzle that people "believe" in this god who is all powerful but stands by while the suffering continues worldwide- suffering that he/she could have prevented. Either that god is omnipotent but callous because he/she/it creates all the suffering and doesn't intervene to stop it or isn't omnipotent but claims he/she/it is, so is lying. And, if that god is also omniscient, then all that suffering could also have been prevented ahead of time by just changing the course of how things unfold. If that god is omniscient, then everything has already been determined, so there is no free will, which means that the idea that all of this is "given" to us to challenge us, is moot, since it's already written what will happen. It's truly a puzzle.
This puzzle is not one to believers and is inexplicable to non-believers. For me at least it's not an issue because the teachings of Jesus are valuable whether one accepts the idea of an all-powerful God or not. Loving one's neighbor and treating them as one would like to be treated isn't all that challenging to accept; much more difficult to live by.
Of course. But some of us don't need another's "teachings" to come to this conclusion on our own. Of course, loving is better than hating, for both those we love and for ourselves. Hate is like taking poison hoping the other person will die.
An excellent simile. People who are confident in their own judgement will, as you say, reach their own conclusions; others, not as confident or experienced in making judgments, need a guide which could be you, could be me, could be Jesus or another prophet. The path isn't as important as the goal and one of the issues of contemporary churches is they've become focused on the path and the attendant temporal, secular power and money that can come with it instead of their notional primary role.
J I have been associated with something called THIS I BELIEVE since 1950. It was initiated with Edward R. Murrow, broadcast on CBS to 39 million listeners weekly and was, I believe, the best selling nonfiction book in 1952.
Check it out on Wickipedia. Also, www.thisibelieve.org It is non religious. Indeed, the TIBs in recent years have mentioned a god far less than in the 1950s.
My TIB was broadcast on CBS in 1954 and printed in newspapers. When I became a history professor in 1992m I incorporated TIB in my curriculum. A number of students told me that this was their most meaningful college experience.
I have conducted 10 4-6 week TIB programs in NJ and NY. A great majority of the participants, after listening and discussing other TIBs, venture to write their own TIBs. A meaningful experience.
I have also been involved with Eisenhower Fellows since its inception in 1953. Eisenhowerfellowships.org. I was the stimulus for an EisenhowerFellowship/This I Believe book in 2016. None of the 34 published FellowsтАЩ TIBs focused on тАШgod.тАЩ
As a psychotherapist, I understood that this is a major skill to have, to be helpful to others. We can't "fix" others with our advice, but we certainly can join people in their journeys, making sure to not be another obstacle for them, but instead a support.
Quite right about the ultimate responsibility and each of us meets that in our own way. If someone relies on what you refer to as superstition to support their path, that's their choice; my objection is when anyone tries to use their beliefs to direct my life's path and it sounds like that's the same concern you have.
Yes. I don't care what others believe. I do care that they justify hurtful policies that affect all of us with those beliefs. But, I don't know how to separate the two. Most believers, think that what they believe is actually true, and apparently don't need evidence to support those beliefs. And, if they are in a position to shape policy many seem convinced that it's legitimate to use those beliefs to limit other people's civil rights.
J I have a grandson who has been sucked into an evangelical movement (god spoke to him). Initially, his mother, me, and others were going to the devil because we didnтАЩt тАШbelieve. This has eased off somewhat, though probably I can go to the devil on my ownтАФI gather that there are some stimulating poker games in hell.
Those are the "true believers" that Eric Hoffer first wrote about in 1951 and they are the scary point of the spear in any doctrinaire and dogmatic movement because they cannot be persuaded to examine their motivating beliefs. The 1st Amendment prohibition of the "establishment of any religion" was intended to prevent a Church of England situation from arising in this country and those who would use the power of government to force people into behaving as though they accept a particular belief system have been trying to work around it ever since. Any freedom including that of religious practice is necessarily limited by the possession of that freedom on the part of everyone else and by the responsibility to accept the impact of one's actions.
Without doing research I don't have time for at the moment, I believe you're right and, at least in the case of Utah, it's unclear that practical abandonment has occurred although the laws have been changed for the most part.
That I'd have to check Keith. I know that apostasy as a capital crime persisted into the 18th century at least in VA but the rest of the details are in the rusty part of the memory bank.
DAVE ! ABSOLUTLY ! Many, in Mankind, are Lost, in the
" many Church Doctrines that steer you Off, THE TRUTH! in WORD! it is WRITTEN ...JESUS said ; I AM the TRUTH! , and the LIFE ! None come unto the FATHER, But BY ME!
ANKIND NEEDS to be Carefull, with WHAT is SAID!! GOD ! and HIS SON! , are NOT MOCKED! ( life on this Earth, is But a "Puff of SMOKE!" Then Your Soul Returns To the FATHER! Is HIS SON? your SAVIOUR? PRAYERS! for YOU! that , HE IS !!
In the 21st century we are still held hostage by a bunch of guys in dresses, who sell the idea that instead of thinking for themselves people ought to follow the "teachings" of a magical sky parent. (I don't care if they do wear dresses, but their opposition to women being given first class citizen status, while cross dressing is telling).
J. Nol, it's not difficult to see that they closely resemble the MAGA crowd. They are fed by their desire to subjugate and have total control, and have little regard for anyone else's welfare or whether they are responsible for collateral damage.
One need only read the history of the Catholic Church to plainly that the welfare of others and any regard for collateral damages is not a part of their faith tradition.
And I say that knowing Catholic Charities does some wonderful things--they do so despite the interference of the Vatican.
While also convincing those they subjugate to pay them for this privilege!
The teachings are real, whatever flavor you take, and they all boil down to 1) Love and respect God and 2) Love and respect your neighbor as you do yourself. No money in that though and people who confuse the various churches and their mundane teachings with the Word of God are the victims of their own failure to learn.
I don't take any of these "flavors". Telling people how to live their lives suggests that some of us have the answers, and others don't or can't find those answers for themselves. I'm all for listening to what people who are wiser than I, say about things, but ultimately, it's up to each of us to figure out this thing called life. I certainly don't find it useful to take seriously other people's superstitions. And I resent superstitions being used to justify all sorts of behaviors and policies.
J As I became considerably older, I find that often people with questions about their lives often benefit most by having a good listener. And while listening, they can say тАШuh uh,тАЩ тАШthatтАЩs interesting,тАЩ and тАШcould you elaborate.
Once you became a passive listener, the other person becomes increasingly comfortable in discussing her/his situation. Instead of endeavoring to provide тАШanswers,тАЩ asking questions may be what the individual most needs.
And who has the тАШanswers?тАЩ If we can help a person probe more into themselves, this might lead to the тАШleast worst alternative.тАЩ
My wife and I practiced this with our daughter this afternoon as she is considering major surgery. We felt it important tab at she decide what was best with her body (sheтАЩs 51). We feel that she is on track towards a resolution that suits her.
Sounds like a good strategy and one that ensures she knows she has your support. God be with her in making the decision and with all of you for a positive outcome.
Except for those of us who aren't believers. It is a puzzle that people "believe" in this god who is all powerful but stands by while the suffering continues worldwide- suffering that he/she could have prevented. Either that god is omnipotent but callous because he/she/it creates all the suffering and doesn't intervene to stop it or isn't omnipotent but claims he/she/it is, so is lying. And, if that god is also omniscient, then all that suffering could also have been prevented ahead of time by just changing the course of how things unfold. If that god is omniscient, then everything has already been determined, so there is no free will, which means that the idea that all of this is "given" to us to challenge us, is moot, since it's already written what will happen. It's truly a puzzle.
This puzzle is not one to believers and is inexplicable to non-believers. For me at least it's not an issue because the teachings of Jesus are valuable whether one accepts the idea of an all-powerful God or not. Loving one's neighbor and treating them as one would like to be treated isn't all that challenging to accept; much more difficult to live by.
Of course. But some of us don't need another's "teachings" to come to this conclusion on our own. Of course, loving is better than hating, for both those we love and for ourselves. Hate is like taking poison hoping the other person will die.
An excellent simile. People who are confident in their own judgement will, as you say, reach their own conclusions; others, not as confident or experienced in making judgments, need a guide which could be you, could be me, could be Jesus or another prophet. The path isn't as important as the goal and one of the issues of contemporary churches is they've become focused on the path and the attendant temporal, secular power and money that can come with it instead of their notional primary role.
J I have been associated with something called THIS I BELIEVE since 1950. It was initiated with Edward R. Murrow, broadcast on CBS to 39 million listeners weekly and was, I believe, the best selling nonfiction book in 1952.
Check it out on Wickipedia. Also, www.thisibelieve.org It is non religious. Indeed, the TIBs in recent years have mentioned a god far less than in the 1950s.
My TIB was broadcast on CBS in 1954 and printed in newspapers. When I became a history professor in 1992m I incorporated TIB in my curriculum. A number of students told me that this was their most meaningful college experience.
I have conducted 10 4-6 week TIB programs in NJ and NY. A great majority of the participants, after listening and discussing other TIBs, venture to write their own TIBs. A meaningful experience.
I have also been involved with Eisenhower Fellows since its inception in 1953. Eisenhowerfellowships.org. I was the stimulus for an EisenhowerFellowship/This I Believe book in 2016. None of the 34 published FellowsтАЩ TIBs focused on тАШgod.тАЩ
That's excellent, thanks for the information and the links Keith. You should underline "This I" so that the link is complete.
As a psychotherapist, I understood that this is a major skill to have, to be helpful to others. We can't "fix" others with our advice, but we certainly can join people in their journeys, making sure to not be another obstacle for them, but instead a support.
Quite right about the ultimate responsibility and each of us meets that in our own way. If someone relies on what you refer to as superstition to support their path, that's their choice; my objection is when anyone tries to use their beliefs to direct my life's path and it sounds like that's the same concern you have.
Yes. I don't care what others believe. I do care that they justify hurtful policies that affect all of us with those beliefs. But, I don't know how to separate the two. Most believers, think that what they believe is actually true, and apparently don't need evidence to support those beliefs. And, if they are in a position to shape policy many seem convinced that it's legitimate to use those beliefs to limit other people's civil rights.
J I have a grandson who has been sucked into an evangelical movement (god spoke to him). Initially, his mother, me, and others were going to the devil because we didnтАЩt тАШbelieve. This has eased off somewhat, though probably I can go to the devil on my ownтАФI gather that there are some stimulating poker games in hell.
ЁЯГП I bet!
Those are the "true believers" that Eric Hoffer first wrote about in 1951 and they are the scary point of the spear in any doctrinaire and dogmatic movement because they cannot be persuaded to examine their motivating beliefs. The 1st Amendment prohibition of the "establishment of any religion" was intended to prevent a Church of England situation from arising in this country and those who would use the power of government to force people into behaving as though they accept a particular belief system have been trying to work around it ever since. Any freedom including that of religious practice is necessarily limited by the possession of that freedom on the part of everyone else and by the responsibility to accept the impact of one's actions.
Dave Actually I believe that it took some time, after the 1st Amendment, for some states to abandon their own тАШstate religion.тАЩ
Da
Without doing research I don't have time for at the moment, I believe you're right and, at least in the case of Utah, it's unclear that practical abandonment has occurred although the laws have been changed for the most part.
Dave Actually I was referring to the original 13 statesтАФesp MA.
That I'd have to check Keith. I know that apostasy as a capital crime persisted into the 18th century at least in VA but the rest of the details are in the rusty part of the memory bank.
Dave While you continue your research, IтАЩll check the dictionary to learn what тАШapostasyтАЩ is.
Dave You are speaking the words of Jesus. What is the relevance to the Catholic Church?
Temporal or eternal relevance?
DAVE ! ABSOLUTLY ! Many, in Mankind, are Lost, in the
" many Church Doctrines that steer you Off, THE TRUTH! in WORD! it is WRITTEN ...JESUS said ; I AM the TRUTH! , and the LIFE ! None come unto the FATHER, But BY ME!
ANKIND NEEDS to be Carefull, with WHAT is SAID!! GOD ! and HIS SON! , are NOT MOCKED! ( life on this Earth, is But a "Puff of SMOKE!" Then Your Soul Returns To the FATHER! Is HIS SON? your SAVIOUR? PRAYERS! for YOU! that , HE IS !!