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DeSantis's declaration of war against "woke" (which is supported by 70% of the American people who think it is good thing) is a demonstration that Civil War II, which has been going on for at least the past 10 years, is heating up as their rhetoric heats up. MAGA doesn't even represent a solid minority of Americans. Only maybe 15%. We have to stand firm now. As James Comey said today in an interview with Jen Psaki, the Founders never contemplated the possibility of a rogue president, who will not recognize the laws and the rule of law and its limitation on executive power. There's every possibility the Orange Traitor will be indicted for his treason this week. We have to stand firm this next 18 months if the United States is to remain a constitutional democratic republic.

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All these people talk so eloquently about getting back to good old-fashioned values. Well, as an old poop I can remember back to when we had those old-fashioned values, and I say let's get back to the good old-fashioned First Amendment of the good old-fashioned Constitution of the United States -- and to hell with the censors! Give me knowledge or give me death!” ― Kurt Vonnegut

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So now do you see why books are hated and feared? They show the pores in the face of life. The comfortable people want only wax moon faces, poreless, hairless, expressionless.

___Fahrenheit 451 by Ray Bradbury

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“Let children read whatever they want and then talk about it with them. If parents and kids can talk together, we won't have as much censorship because we won't have as much fear.” ― Judy Blume

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This makes me view DeSantis’ War on Woke as really a War on Talking About Things with Kids. Because the parents are squeamish, and don’t WANT to do it. And their privilege ensures they can “Just Say No”, and demand everyone else just-shut-up-about-it! Not Good!

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I am opposed to censorship, but I have a precocious seven-year-old granddaughter who reads beyond her years. She is not emotionally mature enough to be exposed to everything available in the library. Her parents should have the right to monitor and withhold books they feel are inappropriate for her emotional maturity.

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They do have that right. They just don't have the right to limit the choices of other's children and others in general.

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Jun 5, 2023·edited Jun 5, 2023

I do have to tell a story about our grandson, Leo, who just graduated from high school and will enter The University of Toronto/Trinity College. His parents have never had a TV other than for videos. He taught himself to read by age 4 growing up in a house of books. Our daughter-in-law sometimes restricted some of his books but Leo found a way around that too. When he was 10 or 11 my wife gave him David Macaulay's The way we work, the amazing human body. She is a retired nursing educationor and thinks children should learn about their bodies.

Leo opened the book and started to look through it and came to the chapter on reproduction. Before his mom could even look at the book Leo disappeared to his room and hid the book in his large book shelf so he could read it later.

His grandfather, just smiled at this and said nothing, I was that kid once too.

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The law here in Floriduh lets one parent of a school age child ban a book for all students in that school without showing actual cause. In other words, the ignorant are determining the standards of education. In March dozens of books were banned due to one parent who did not read the books but was with "Moms For Liberty" group pushing their agenda. Also, in May, Amanda Gorman's poem written for President Joe Biden’s inauguration has been placed on a restricted list at a South Florida elementary school after one parent’s complaint.

However, these laws are a double-edge sword and in Utah this month the Holy Buybull has been banned in elementary and middle schools for vulgarity or violence.

At least that is a valid assessment. As a consumer (and writer) of pornografy, I often think of these very erotic passage from the Old Testament. If this is acceptable for school kids, then the "Collected Erotica of Rob Boyte" isn't any worse.

Ezekiel 23:19 - 21

The Adultery of Oholah and Aholibah

"Yet she became more and more promiscuous as she recalled the days of her youth, when she was a prostitute in Egypt. There she lusted after her lovers, whose genitals were like those of donkeys and whose emission was like that of horses. So you longed for the lewdness of your youth, when in Egypt your bosom was caressed and your young breasts fondled."

Genesis 19:33-36

Lot and His Daughters

That night they got their father to drink wine, and the older daughter went in and slept with him. He was not aware of it when she lay down or when she got up.

The next day the older daughter said to the younger, “Last night I slept with my father. Let’s get him to drink wine again tonight, and you go in and sleep with him so we can preserve our family line through our father.” So they got their father to drink wine that night also, and the younger daughter went in and slept with him. Again he was not aware of it when she lay down or when she got up. So both of Lot’s daughters became pregnant by their father.

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Hear, hear! That’s what the, the book banners don’t understand.

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Parents always have the right to monitor and supervise which books their child reads. They don't have the authority to decide which books my child is allowed to read.

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Censorship, like charity, should begin at home; but unlike charity, it should end there.” ― Clare Booth Luce

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I was a very sick child, and had gone through the Encyclopedia Britannica by 8 ( not that I understood it, but the exposure field a life long curiosity).

I read inappropriate WWII novels my dad collected, totally inappropriate. But nothing horrified me more than the Bible. The story of Lot, and my questions about Lot giving up his virgin daughters to a mob so he could escape, got me kicked out of Sunday school, and convinced me there was nothing at all, ever, admirable about people who thought that shit was holy.

Let them read.

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I wish I had been in your Sunday School class!

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I LOVE ❤️ that you got kicked out of Sunday school class. Let them read! And help them process.

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➡️ "Let them read." ⬅️

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Once again I recommend God: Anatomy for an eye-opening look at the Bible and you were right to be disturbed.

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Amen. So to speak.

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No one is taking that right away from parents. That’s literally what parenting is -- protecting your own kid. But we don’t ban books for all just so that a few children don’t have access to them. My daughter read at an 8th grade level in third grade but I didn’t expect libraries and every book store to remove books from their shelves so that she couldn’t get her hands on them.

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I’m a little confused. The key word in your last sentence is “parents.” How lucky they are to have a voracious reader—now they just have to channel it. Is something preventing them from monitoring? (Ps why is everything in the library available to her? Don’t they have children’s and YA sections?)

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I disagree with the Judy Blume opinion above. My opinion is that the parents should have the final decision concerning which books their children have access to. I don't understand what you are confused about and why you decided the key word is "parents." You are clouding the issue when I thought I clearly stated my opinion. My son takes his daughter to the library and they are quite happy with the resources and staff. I was going to ignore the quote, but went back to it twice. I didn't want someone to think they are the only one who doesn't believe children should not have free access to whatever they can get their hands on as long as they discuss it with parents after being disturbed or distressed. Say what you will, I'm not coming back to this thread.

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Jun 5, 2023·edited Jun 5, 2023

Gloria J. Maloney Writes Gloria’s Substack -

"I am opposed to censorship, but I have a precocious seven-year-old granddaughter who reads beyond her years. She is not emotionally mature enough to be exposed to everything available in the library."

I don't know what that means.

Wouldn't someone who "reads beyond her years" be emotionally mature enough for the above Judy Blume advice?

“𝘓𝘦𝘵 𝘤𝘩𝘪𝘭𝘥𝘳𝘦𝘯 𝘳𝘦𝘢𝘥 𝘸𝘩𝘢𝘵𝘦𝘷𝘦𝘳 𝘵𝘩𝘦𝘺 𝘸𝘢𝘯𝘵 𝘢𝘯𝘥 𝘵𝘩𝘦𝘯 𝘵𝘢𝘭𝘬 𝘢𝘣𝘰𝘶𝘵 𝘪𝘵 𝘸𝘪𝘵𝘩 𝘵𝘩𝘦𝘮. 𝘐𝘧 𝘱𝘢𝘳𝘦𝘯𝘵𝘴 𝘢𝘯𝘥 𝘬𝘪𝘥𝘴 𝘤𝘢𝘯 𝘵𝘢𝘭𝘬 𝘵𝘰𝘨𝘦𝘵𝘩𝘦𝘳, 𝘸𝘦 𝘸𝘰𝘯'𝘵 𝘩𝘢𝘷𝘦 𝘢𝘴 𝘮𝘶𝘤𝘩 𝘤𝘦𝘯𝘴𝘰𝘳𝘴𝘩𝘪𝘱 𝘣𝘦𝘤𝘢𝘶𝘴𝘦 𝘸𝘦 𝘸𝘰𝘯'𝘵 𝘩𝘢𝘷𝘦 𝘢𝘴 𝘮𝘶𝘤𝘩 𝘧𝘦𝘢𝘳.” --Judy Blume

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If kids are curious they are going to look for knowledge wherever they can find it. If kids can talk to their parents about whatever they are curious about and feel their curiosity is respected they will be more likely to respect and listen to their parents. Judy Blume knows what she speaks of. Fear of knowledge instills fear of anything “other”.

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I was "the" librarian in a small storefront branch library when Judy Blume's "Forever" (1975) was published. I well remember the furore about the topic of teen sexuality and pregnancy. But my library system and many others ignored that and added the book to YA collections. Books like "Forever", and subsequent YA books that addressed other issues of importance to young teens all were added as well. And then there was "Go Ask Alice" (1971) on the subject of teen drug addiction. This type of subject matter is just as essential as are the ones being banned today, about other forms of sexuality as a means of informing young people that they aren't alone, that they are among many who may be confused and have questions about who they are, their feelings and their own sexuality, be it hetero- or non-hetero. Leaving teens ignorant about themselves only leads to confusion and negative outcomes for far too many.

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Yes. When you prohibit children from accessing something, you can bet that a lot of them will do their best to get access to that taboo thing.

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Nobody is trying to limit the rights of parents to censor what their own children read. The problem is the parents that want to censor what other parents allow their own children to read.

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Mom, where do babies come from? Well dear, a stork drops them down the chimney. Is that why some babies are black? Well dear .........

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Agree — that's the responsibility of parents but not government. We're at the stage where in many states a single parent can object to the material in a book and it's banned for everyone.

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Does she even understand what she is reading. I remember that I didn't see anything wrong with and R rated movie when I was watching the movie. I didn't see what the problem was until I was older and then watched that same movie. Of course those movies weren't as graphic as they are today. Or if they were I didn't catch or understand what I was watching.

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Her parents mandates are vastly different from that of the government.

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That's right - her parents should monitor and withhold books. That's their right. But those same books should not be withheld from my 7 year old that reads and discusses books with her parents. I did the same with my children and they suffered no ills.

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That's why there is a children's room. Reading levels and reading comprehension are 2 different things. The librarian cannot know where each child is on that spectrum. Parents choose for their own children not your child or mine.

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Thank you Fern. Wisdom and irony. Judy Blume, beloved and wise, is a banned author in many schools and libraries. Guess which ones and Where? https://www.pbs.org/newshour/amp/show/judy-blume-describes-latest-wave-of-book-bans-and-censorship-as-disgusting-and-fascist

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Thank you Fern. It was great to start my week with the quotes you cited.

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Jun 5, 2023·edited Jun 5, 2023

Thank you, chc55555. Those quotes and many others along with our own speak of freedom for all.

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Fern, two of my favorite authors, Vonnegut and Bradbury. DeSantis can take his book bans and put them where the sun don't shine. Along with his entire philosophy. The two top GOP candidates at this point could not be more nauseatingly dangerous to our freedom.

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Not to mention just plain nauseating to look at and listen to.

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My sentiments exactly. May both disappear from public view as soon as possible.

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While it goes without saying that politicians' perspectives are far more important than their looks, I wholly agree with you, Jenn.

I also think that, at least since the Kennedy/Nixon disparity in looks and demeanor was beamed through the early era TV cameras for all to see, most people tend to unconsciously lean toward the more attractive and/or charming candidates.

Reagan, Clinton, Obama are all examples of this as well.

The two leading candidates on the GOP side at present are the exact opposite. Both Despicable Don and Repugnant Ron are physically unattractive, bearing personalities that are most off putting. Compared to DeSantis, who has all the charm of every kid's grumpy neighbor who yells at them when the ball lands on the lawn, Trump's con man act is almost charming. Almost, that is.

This unconscious attraction/rejection thing has an even more interesting effect with female politicians. To me, there is no doubt that the irrationally dangerous hatred toward Democratic office holders like AOC and VP Harris is not only racist, but derives from a certain perverse fear of the power of their attractiveness.

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True!

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It is good to see you this morning James Vander Poel. Thank you for commenting.

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Once again I ask, freedom from or freedom to?

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Jun 5, 2023·edited Jun 5, 2023

Freedom from exploitation, oppression, inequality to freedom of speech, the press, assembly, and the right to petition the Government for a redress of grievances. 'The Bill of Rights is the first 10 Amendments to the Constitution. It spells out Americans’ rights in relation to their government. It guarantees civil rights and liberties to the individual—like freedom of speech, press, and religion. It sets rules for due process of law and reserves all powers not delegated to the Federal Government to the people or the States. And it specifies that “the enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.” (NationalArchives) See link below.

May you continue to learn about freedom and the lives of people without it.

https://www.archives.gov/founding-docs/bill-of-rights/what-does-it-say

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Holy Smokes, Fern! That is such an awesome quote to remind us of today!

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Causes WPT(white peoples’ trauma; a new but old disease).

Sarah Wall

Another comment somewhere in Substack, June 2023

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Actually, that’s very apt. Yikes!

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...as well as immunizations....

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We are all Montag now

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The "good old days" are mostly a fantasy. Yes there is much we have lost that is worth restoring, and some that is lost is just lost. And a lot, if you look closely at history, many things, even in my 3/4 century were pretty nasty, especially for minorities and women; and much still is. A trip to the 1950's or 1850's might not be a place where many would care to stay. Reality is more complicated than many would like to think, but that just papers over what is most rewarding and terrifying in the real world; and the terrifying part won't get better for being ignored.

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And misinterpreted! I cringe when white people use the word "woke." It deliberately (ignorantly) misleads. It's a Black person's plea for white people to look at our history and attitudes that have repressed, murdered and vilified Blacks. And why wouldn't we want to see that? Why wouldn't everyone aim for truth and understanding.?Now those are Christian values, Ron De-Ignoramus!

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'Woke is an adjective derived from African-American Vernacular English (AAVE) meaning "alert to racial prejudice and discrimination".

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Thank you Fern. Between you and HCR the world would be a state of truth and understanding, indeed. I hope my interpretation isn't too off base.

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Based on that definition, Desantis should include on his campaign materials “Leading the party of bigots and haters.” At least we could say he’s honest /s

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Interesting! And it seems like a strange philosophy for Ron DiSantis to embrace given his prejudices and attitudes......

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There is nothing Christian about DeSatan, the Russian patriarch (reminds me of death star awarding the...was it the Medal of Freedom...to Limbaugh), Orban or any of these other authoritarians. Jesus clearly thought that the people running the Temple were crass hypocrites. He also included help for the downtrodden. All this is about keeping the ruling males in power.

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Why wouldn't everyone aim for truth and understanding.?

Good old fashioned ignorance is my answer.

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My suggestion today for the LFAA bookclub is "When Everything Changed" by Gail Collins. I could so identify with this enlightened book! I am the youngest of 5, my eldest sister is 15 years older than I am. She went straight into the workforce as a clerk in downtown Chicago for a utility company. All the women hid their pregnancies as long as possible, it was mandatory to quit when you were "showing."

Fast forward to my pregnancy 18 years later: I worked up until the day before my daughter was born.

I have given this book to a number of young women, back before Wade v Roe was turned over. Back then, I told them that they did not realize how many of the rights they took for granted had been fought for my their mothers, aunts, grandmothers. Perhaps with Rove v Wade, they get it now.

Last week, I posted a clip from "Beau of the Fifth Column" that several states are considering legislation to eliminate No Fault Divorce, and what the implications are for anyone who doesn't realize the difference.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_B_JhrJSLhQ

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Interesting video. Thanks.

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My favorite quote is “these ARE the good ol days, we simply don’t recognize it as such as nostalgia has yet to set in”

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Yes, i speak those words form time to time. That's not to say I believe that there are not better and worse times and circumstances for certain individuals and the preponderance of societies. There are places in the world I'm really glad I'm not in. And I am certain, if we renounced the urge to bully, and got more serious about the punch list in the Constitution's Preamble, we could have much better days, at least for most, and some assistance for all. That said, I am becoming more aware that my hour upon the stage will draw to a close. Life, the Universe, and Everything and the opportunity to experience it seems to me knock-out fantastic, but then I am not wondering where my next meal is coming from. How do we stop being our own worst enemies?

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At my age and investment situation, cash flow is not an issue either. How do we not be our enemy? Empathy I guess. And vigilance

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"Empathy I guess. And vigilance"

Agreed. There is more of course, but that must be an anchor point.

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Jun 5, 2023·edited Jun 5, 2023

That is exactly what we are doing, JL Graham, refusing to be ignored. We will be heard.

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The people who want to live in the mythical past always imagine themselves as princes and princesses--not the scullery maid or the slave.

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Yes, I have noticed, such as the PBS fascination with royalty. One of the big things the founders got right was not to spit from Europe and install their own king. In theory the president is a paid agent of the public, constrained by rule of law, and not an elected autocrat.

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I agree. I grew up in the 1950s and it seemed a peaceful time with few problems which is because they were there, but not in public view. I often read comments on how crime is on the rise. Well, these people did not live in 19th century New York City for example. In a book I read recently, there was plenty of descriptions of how chaotic the city was.

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Many of these people reminiscing about the past believe they would have been better off if they lived in it. They imagine a time they think would have been great for them, not a time that was great for all. What made it great? A system that openly tilted things towards their point of view and gave them preference over others. Brittle people who embrace unpopular stands, while being incapable of making them more appealing to others, are the main thrust behind this reactionary mob. If they can't convince you to come around to their point of view, they'll just try and make it impossible to hold any other perspective at all.

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It seems to me that the essence of a cult is believing that one has access to the only source of reliable information and any differing perspective must be rejected. I grew up from a very early age fascinated by "science" although I did not recognize it as that at first. And it appears to me that a genuine scientific perspective regards it's conclusions as tentative and evolving. It seems to me is that at the core of the best of science is the recognition of the limits of reliability of human perception, and a methodology for improving that, up to a point. It seems to me that a an open mind moves with circumstances. Is resilient.

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We agree on this. It does seem that a belief in the innate righteousness of intractability, regardless of new information, is part of cultish behavior, for sure. For example, many in this subset pointed to Fauci, changing his position on COVID-19 with the discovery of new information, as evidence that he was either always lying or never firm in his position to start. The opposite was true: he was open to evolving understanding based on new discovery. It seems that many of them don't see the difference between changing one's view from better information and changing a view due to its reception or popularity.

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And some incurious folks want to call him a flip-flopper. He was resilient.

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And it seemed to me he was consistent in his advice to not spread the damned disease.

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Life was way simpler when only straight white men needed to be acknowledged and accommodated. Now everyone is expected to know/learn about systemic oppression, female biology, the difference between sex and gender, other religious traditions. The uncurious and fearful are overwhelmed.

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I’m another old poop who happens to agree wholeheartedly with you. All those “Good Old Days”were far from good.

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I once heard a very interesting sermon that I never forgot titled “When We’re Those Good Old Days?”

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😁👍

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Those old fashioned values gave us the war in Ukraine, including rape, beheadings, and torture. What’s not to like? Pass the postcards pronto!

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Will you elaborate on your reply, Susan? Which 'old fashioned' values are you referring to, those of MAGA, which of the two that Vonnegut mentioned or another not specified on the thread? How did the 'old fashioned values' you didn't specify but I hope will, lead to both Putin's military invasion of Ukraine as well as rape, beheadings and torture that you listed? Thank you for your consideration of this request.

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“Censorship is to art as lynching is to justice.” ―Henry Louis Gates Jr.

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Man oh man, Fern...you’re pulling a lot of tricks out of your hat!

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Born to be wild, Marlene. No holds barred liberty junkie. Resplendent cacophony of freedom. The liberal mind in flight. In this war she is not to be confused with a dove. Go Fern, go Eagle Flight! Sing!

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Jun 5, 2023·edited Jun 5, 2023

Thank you, friends Pat and Marlene. We fly together.

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Jun 5, 2023·edited Jun 5, 2023

Great quote! Thank you to Professor Gates.

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These are really good. Keep it coming 😊🙏

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Professor Richardson’s narrative this morning drew the unmistakable line from Putin to DeSantis.

I must agree with you TC, to do otherwise would be to deny the facts on the ground.

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"What I tell kids is, Don't get mad, get even. Don't spend time waving signs or carrying petitions around the neighborhood. Instead, run, don't walk, to the nearest nonschool library or to the local bookstore and get whatever it was that they banned. Read whatever they're trying to keep out of your eyes and your brain, because that's exactly what you need to know.” ―Stephen King

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That and and signs and petitions and fingers pointing to injustices and solutions hiding in plain sight. Although it cannot just be venting. It has to make a point.

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What we must do is work harder than we ever have to get people registered to vote and get them to the polls on election days. The minds of the white Christian nationalists are not going to be changed, we simply must beat them at the polls.

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Vote like your freedom to control your life and body depend on it, because it does. Get graduating High School Seniors registered to vote and excited about having a say in getting murder weapons out of the hands of child killers.

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“Vote like your freedom to control your life and body depend on it, because it does” Powerful! Mailed it. Thank you Sally Hart

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Safeguards like the ERIC system of checking for interstate voter fraud (voting in more than one State) are being removed. Look out.

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Is there really that much voter fraud?

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Would be helpful to somehow stem the flow of propaganda in the meantime

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Absolutely would, but that isn't going to happen. So, plan #2? Use against them what the tools that they use to work - the media.

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That makes it pretty simple Fern McBride. We are opposing the think police. Books that makes one think are poison to their “policy “ and their way of thinking

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And the unmistakeable line from Orban to Desantis, and from...

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I consider DeSantis a criminal and a seditionist of the highest order. What is wrong with the people of Florida and why isn’t there an uprising against this bigotry?

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There is. But the christian god is very effective at convincing the lambs.

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TC,

Why have we allowed fundamental class warfare to be framed primarily as an existential struggle between the “decent traditional family values” of Christian nationalist fascists and the most often referenced ‘woke’ LGBTQ community? As far as I can tell, both of these factions represent a relatively thin slice of society, and yet here we are, obsessing over some life and death struggle between these two groups. Surely there’s more at stake here than the immediate interests these two specific and fairly small cultural segments, and yet to read the mainstream media, this is the main front.

Personally I couldn’t care less what Christians do, how they raise their kids or about the gender preferences and practices of LGBTQ people. I do believe the rights of all people should be respected and protected. And I’m very concerned that a narrow fixation on two very specific groups is affecting us all in very dangerous ways, from our politics to our educational institutions. But I’m mystified that more people don’t object to this simplistic framing of a much larger struggle. Is it that so many humans seem to require symbols in order to grasp complex social issues? As George Carlin observed, “symbols …. for the symbol minded”.

The unfortunate truth is more likely that another very small group, the oligarchy, is capitalizing on our collective tendency to be distracted by bright shiny objects and sound bites and pitting us against each other via the media and social networks for their own nefarious ends. Shame on us. We should be waging war on these sociopaths, not sniping at our neighbors over our parochial differences.

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Jun 5, 2023·edited Jun 5, 2023

"But I’m mystified that more people don’t object to this simplistic framing of a much larger struggle. Is it that so many humans seem to require symbols in order to grasp complex social issues? "

LeMoine, definitely an excellent question. I don't have an answer, however, I have an observation: Most people are far more comfortable if they "feel" superior in their perceptions of the world around them. If I "believe" that my God is better than your God, I feel more comfortable, if I "believe" that my kids are smarter than your kids, I feel more comfortable. If I "believe" that my perceptions are right and yours are wrong I feel more comfortable AND feel like I don't have to think about your perceptions since, you are "wrong".

It is not much different than two farm dogs coming upon each other outside of each others yards where their territory has been staked out. Most of the time, those two dogs will start a fight with each other and may even hurt each other and all for nothing since the ground they are on is neither dog's territory.

In the end, maybe it is just that we are not much smarter than dogs, and, in the presence of some minor differences we suddenly have to feel "superior" and start a fight.

maybe we are just dumb animals like dogs? Or most of us?

It takes a fair bit of courage to challenge one's own foundations. The first time it is pretty scary (pretty much for anyone). So, a lot of people never take that step. Never really wonder: Dang, Mary Magdalene showed up with Jesus and claimed he was resurrected, and, even though nobody could recognize him initially, she managed to convince the disciples and much of the rest of the world that he WAS resurrected.

It is really hard to read the Gospels, really read them, understand that the MESSAGE that Christ brought was the real value, NOT Mary Magdalene's effort to keep that message alive by keeping Christ himself alive, and then just ask the question:

Why did nobody initially recognize the risen Christ that Mary Magdalene presented?

And, does it really matter whether he resurrected or not given his message of love, tolerance, acceptance, forgiveness and general message of peace?

Because, IF we ask that question, THEN we have to ask: >> Is it really my place to judge someone else for....put anything at all here that DOES NOT infringe on someone else rights?

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Mary, sadly, set the stage for other people - mostly men who were clever enough to create a religion/mind control/crowd control/fellow human domination tool. The guys who wrote the "Gospel" and all the monks in towers who scribed away on parchment for centuries thereafter were just more of the same. Monsters who said they were defining morality but they were actually no different than witch doctors using their phony texts to scare the Hell out of or into the rabble.

DeSantis, Kirill and Orban are capitalizing on a tradition of superimposing superstitious nonsense on the crowds. Jesus would be disgusted.

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Exactly, Bill. "Jesus would be disgusted." And THAT is what the "guys who wrote the Gospels" and the scribes in towers recognized. Faith is the force that keeps us moving toward what is just and loving even in the face of death. THAT is what Mary announced because of what she experienced. The impossible is possible. Her teacher rose from the dead. THAT is not what those who are "superimposing nonsense" on the crowds (i.e., DeSantis, Kirill, Orban, Putin, Trump, Huckabee, etc.) are saying.

The nonsense-imposers do not have faith in the impossibility of resurrection. They look at the world and work to shape it according to boundaries set up by their fears and desire for power.

For the sake of democracy and justice, we may want to liberate them from the prisons they inhabit and impose on others, but we can't help them as long as they don't read, don't look at others with merciful hearts, don't have empathy, and insist on maintaining a position of shallow ignorance. Our job is to keep articulating and creating hope.

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The word that leapt out of your comment - for me - was empathy.

I'm for any faith or philosophy that employs compassion and empathy. Any faith that is helpful rather than selfish and fearful has my applause.

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Bill,

Yep.

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Interesting point. I concur, the message is in Matthew 25: 34-46: 'Even as you do it unto the least of these." That is a powerful message. It is Jesus' principal message. Democrats pursue and implement those practices. This is why my mother once told me that I was the best Christian that she knew, knowing at the time that I was (and am) a complete and total non-believer in anything spiritual and definitely not in the divinity of Jesus. I wrote a book on it and may now revise it.

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I cherish a similar compliment that I got from my very Christian friend (she was a preacher's kid; a PK as she and her siblings called themselves.) We commuted to college together and played in band together When she went off to finish her schooling a the denominational college her parents had gone to, we got together for lunch over the summer. She told me about how in many ways, she thrived in the environment, but had also learned something very important: Not every Christian was very Christ affirming. She told me "For an Atheist, you are the most Christian person I know."

I had told her about 8 years ago (at her Dad's memorial service) that I considered that one of the greatest compliments I'd received, and she told me that it was intended that way. She and her husband moved this summer, and they needed help driving one of two 26' rental trucks. I volunteered, and her husband and I had a lovely drive up I-5 from Medford to a small town about an hour north and east of Seattle. We were having the first meal in their new home, when she turned to me, and said "Yup. Still an Atheist exemplifying Christian values".

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Thank you for that. I felt and feel the same way. "By their fruits, so shall you know them>"

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Your mother was wise. Very wise.

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I share your concern for other creatures, Bill. It was a mistake for us to think that by having "dominion over all the other creatures" it was a license to kill them and to destroy their habitats. This callousness bothers me.

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Somehow, as they crossed the ocean seeking freedom of religion (for themselves), the Christian message morphed from “do unto others as you would have them do unto you” and “turn the other cheek” to something more like “material success is a sign of god’s favor.” And that is, indeed a perversion.

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I think that there is truth to what you say. For me, what motivates the white Evangelical MAGA Republicans is racism, their not wanting brown and black-skinned persons to "replace" them as America's majority. David Norman and Allen Hanley made this finding very clear in their study, "The Anger Games; Who Voted for Donald Trump in the 2016 Election, and Why?"

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Or their revision was, “Do unto others BEFORE they do unto you”.

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If we really look, we have to admit it’s really all just about power. The answers to co-existing peacefully in harmony are to be seen easily. Accepting the practice is hardly ever taken up because it’s really all just about power over others around you. Push the message and practice of Peace and Love usually gets you murdered. As much as we need it, we destroy it. Look at DeSantis’ followers. They supposedly crave “Christian values”. Yet following the leader they chose, they are destroying the very building blocks they need for it. They want power. They don’t want what Christ valued.

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Dogs are smart! They have evolved to have a friendly gene that humans have not. We, as a species, have more wolf genes than dogs do.

I agree with many of your points. However, I do not accept the Bible as a valid reference in making your point. I consider it hearsay and therefore mostly fiction since it was written by many different people with varying perspectives and depended on potentially flawed memories and years after events. There may be some historical accuracy, but it is questionable IMHO.

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Jun 5, 2023·edited Jun 5, 2023

Christine,

Definitely, the Bible is hearsay and possibly mostly fiction. But, within the fiction itself there is the obvious inconsistency of a resurrection of a dude who, when presented to folks who just spent a fair bit of time with him, could not recognize him.

Even a fiction book cannot fly with that.

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On the contrary, Mike S. The inconsistencies depict the impossibility of nailing down a simplistic way to describe what it is that gives people faith and hope. That topic begs for numerous stories, myriads of images, lots of characters who have major failings, and visions of what can't be seen. What gives you hope? Can you make it a one-sentence answer? My guess is that it would be something like my off-the-cuff answer here: "I have hope because of people who stand up in dangerous circumstances for what is true and life-giving. An easy example is the Tianamen Square guy who faced down the tanks." That is the kind of thing we find in the Bible. How can we definitively explain love or empathy? Fiction is one vehicle that people use. I love the biblical witness because it is inconsistent, complex, contradictory, unfathomable, rich, poetric, and downright gorgeous. Thank you for engaging in this conversation. May it continue!

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LeMoine, i don't think we fundamentally disagree when I consider your comment as a whole, but I am confused by your equating Maga with woke as both reflecting " a relatively thin slice of society." As I understand woke, it represents the fundamental precepts of our democracy, toward which we strive: respect for diversity, reason, equality, justice, etc. Polls report that these values are widely shared. Have I imbibed the kool aid?

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Dave, I think you've put your finger on the a great example of what I'm talking about. These labels like "woke" are again symbols designed to inflame the passions of the great unwashed, though nobody can really define what the term means. This is not to say that we as individuals don't fabricate our own definitions based on our beliefs, experience, reading .... whatever.

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I had a very close friend, Jim Buie, now departed, a tall Black man who was extremely talented is so many ways, kind to a fault, who once told me that he felt that indoctrination of children in religion was a form of child abuse. Jim's thoughts on this topic inspired me to write and publish "The Hanging Death of Jesus Christ; and Other New Testament Occurrences." Jesus didn't die on the cross but was later hanged by the Sanhedrin, and it is all right there in the New Testament. But, the true believers don't want to see it.

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Richard, you'll need to substantiate your interpretation of Jesus' death if you want someone who studies bibilical sources to take you seriously.

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Acts 5:30

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Jun 5, 2023·edited Jun 5, 2023

Richard,

Good reference. No doubt.

However, like everything else in the New Testament and the Old Testament, one might be wise to be skeptical of any and all accounts for which no independent evidence is around to support the statement.

Crucifixion was common at the time of Jesus since Rome was in control of the area and, hanging has always been around since humans came upon their first vine during foraging.

However, I do think it is indisputable that, Jesus, having kicked Nehemia's doctrine of separation of Samaritans from Jerusalem Jews to the wayside by the telling of the parable of the Good Samaritan, was treading on on thin ice after that parable.

Jews were outraged that a Samaritan would not be treated with the disdain they deserved, which all began in the last few verses of Nehemia when he insulted the son in law of Sanballot or something like that.

Jesus was definitely challenging the fact that Jerusalem Jews were "superior". Always a bad idea to dispel the notion that another human being, convinced he is superior, is not.

:-)

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The Sanhedrin never used crucifixion as a means of punishment and/or death. They hanged those who violated religious law. Carl Sagan observed that all material things in the universe are subject to the same physical laws. Rigor mortis begins setting in within an hour of death. In twelve hours the body is rigidly stiff. Even if Jesus had been in the tomb for three days and nights (he wasn't,) he wouldn't have been able to move. There are also physical explanations for Paul's experience on the road to Damascus. But, in the final analysis, we humans believe what we want to believe and beliefs based on feelings have little or no regard for facts.

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"Hanging him on a tree" is a biblical phrase for crucifixion. The cross is understood by Christian theologians, hymnwriters, and others as the Tree of Life because by his death he was raised. Rich imagery. Impenetrable imagery, to be sure.

Peter is saying to the "high priests" that they killed Jesus by crucifixion. What continues to be a topic of import to scholars is whether and how we are to understand who is to blame for Jesus' death. Was it mostly the religious leaders who found him threatening or the Roman government for whom he was a dangerous leader. (Judas hoped Jesus would lead a revolution and was disappointed enough to betray him when it became clear he wasn't a zealot.) Pilate, the governor of the region, oversaw Jesus' "trial," traded Barabbas, a known criminal, for Jesus as the one to be killed, and washed his hands of the whole thing.

Who "kills" the protesters in our time? Is it the cultural climate, the values of those who wield religious power (Christian Nationalism today) or the political culture that wields the power of status and greed?

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I've been down this road of believing, questioning, rejecting and now I simply seek and apply the Jesus I was raised to know about to every aspect of my life. I am grateful for the Christian scaffolding built for me in my upbringing upon which to hang all that is important in living my life. I do not know. I cannot know. I seek.

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"I am grateful for the Christian scaffolding built for me"

Me Too.

:-)

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Smart way to live.

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“ Toilet seats”—Dr. Brown, circa 1969. An academic in the English Dept. University of Montana said to us students. “ Don’t ever let them hang those labels around your necks. They define the user.”

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Hmmmm . . . look at the focus on LGBTQ folk, particularly Transgender people, as a target the MAGA cult can use to rally other MAGA followers to their odious cause. It’s no different than focusing on any other “minority” group be they of color or Irish. The point is that it’s a group perceived to be weak enough it/they can be targeted with h impunity.

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"https://news.gallup.com/poll/389792/lgbt-identification-ticks-up.aspx"

I think we are all too focused on small fraction of the population.

Especially the folks who undergo "gender affirming surgery" which is less that 0.5% of the population or so. "Surgery" which I cannot imagine having grown up on a farm and manually neutered yearling bulls every spring. What must that look like in a surgical room at a surgery center? Gotta be pretty horrifying honestly.

Not something I would have wanted to go to Medical School to do for sure. And, not something I would do if I had gone to Med School.

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Speaking to the "... what Christians do, how they raise their kids or about the gender preferences and practices of LGBTQ people" part of you post here: Christian practices are based upon the Bible and its myriad of interpretations. Preferences and practices of the LGBTQ community have been legislated and outlawed in many parts of the country and the world, most often using religion (the Christian Bible being one most frequently cited as the source for these laws in the US and elsewhere). When I came out as lesbian in 1977 at age 19, I could have been fired for cause for being lesbian. I could have been jailed for not wearing "at least 3 women's garments".

https://www.history.com/news/stonewall-riots-lgbtq-drag-three-article-rule

I understand the point you're trying to make, and I realize that the LGBTQ+ community is representative of roughly 10% of our society. Gayfolk have scared the bejesus out of Christians a substantial portion of modern history which impacts far more than the "narrow fixation on this specific group". I love your last sentence.

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Excellent bit of writing Ally.

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Ally, I hope I haven't come across as uncaring about the plight of LGBTQ+ people. As I said, the rights of all members of society must be respected. But to your point, I sometimes wonder how many "real" Christians feel the way I do, which is to say "live and let live"? By "real Christians" I mean those that aren't defined by their rigid, racist, angry, sanctimonious attitude toward anyone that is "different". This latter is the "specific group" I was alluding to. For the record, I am neither Christian nor a member of the LGBTQ+ community.

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Thank you for your reply. I am a bit (OK, overly) sensitive to some things that minimize the impact of religion on marginalized populations. I also sympathize with those Christians that follow the teachings of Christ who object to the Christians who use their faith to justify hatred and exclusion of “others”, and believe that they are not “”true” Christians. I do not think that either religious expression gets to choose which is the “right” Christianity.

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Very insightful and also very true 🙏

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“Torch every book. Burn every page. Char every word to ash. Ideas are incombustible. And therein lies your real fear." ― Ellen Hopkins

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I am leaving the blank which emerged after I completed my last comment -- I don't know if you can see it, but bear in mind that if this dimestore Duce has his way, Americans will end up like Putin's subjects... imprisoned for carrying a blank poster.

I drew attention to John Milton's Areopagitica (1643) in which the great poet likened the destruction of a good book to killing reason itself.

Fern will doubtless eke out all the strongest quotes, but we dare not forget how Hitler and Goebbels burned books to kill reason, before they burned men, women and children.

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“Hitler and Goebbels burned books to kill reason, before they burned men, women and children.” -Peter Burnett

Quotable to say the least. May I borrow with your credits?

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Jun 5, 2023·edited Jun 5, 2023

Substack.

Your edit function does not work on this phone. I corrected a spelling mistake and the comment vanished.

Anyway, Joyce -- and everyone else -- if you really share any idea I express, then it is yours, too. Yours to share or improve on.

I only hope my words won't be misunderstood, traduced or used in the wrong context. But that's par for the course, isn't it?

I've spoken. The words have left my mouth, so everyone is now free to use them, share them, reject or criticize them.

And of course I'll take them back if you can persuade me that I should do so.

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Peter, are you on an iPhone? I only recently even got my phone to open the ... but haven't tried it since.

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No, mine's Android.

The only reliable way I have found of writing a comment here is to use Word on my PC and copy the text.

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Here it goes.

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Love your “two bit Duce “ assessment!!

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two bit Deuce or perhaps Dunce

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Churchill referred to the Duce -- Benito Mussolini -- as "a sawdust Caesar".

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Jun 5, 2023·edited Jun 5, 2023

BLANK

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Peter, I think that it was the students who burned them first.

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James Comey. The James Comey who's now claiming to be an independent after being a Republican. The same James Comey who besmirched the reputation of the FBI by making comments about Clinton during the 2016 campaign. It's good he's trying to make a living doing something other than politics: writing fiction should be right up his alley. Psaki can interview him about his book, but let's not give any credence to his remarks about politics. I've heard enough from him, thank you very much.

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He was a cowardly disgrace when he bowed to the rogue FBI agents who were going to ‘leak’ that the HRC emails were still under investigation, if he didn’t make a public statement!

Lil’ j Edgar Hoover would have castrated the agents in a heart beat!

Comey, tall in stature, but shriveled to dust where it counts!

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I think the founders anticipated the possibility of a rogue president, that the remedies for bribery, treason and other substantial misconduct. I'm not sure they anticipated a thoroughly corrupt, authoritarian political party. I'm not sure they anticipated that massive de facto bribery might be made legal.

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Nor did the Founders ever entertain the notion that so many folks, upon being informed of massive dark money bribery, would shrug.

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I have a friend who several years ago was teaching a college course on the American political system in China. While explaining to them the American system of lobbyists the class broke out into laughter. When he asked why, the answer was, "it's legalized bribery." And after Citizens United, it's legalized bribery on steroids. Reminds me of this note: "This is the law, and the law shall run till the stars in their courses are still; that whosoever eateth another's bread shall do that other's will."

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Nor did the Founders anticipate that their 2nd Amendment would be misconstrued! A cannon and a musket versus an AR-15 or AK-47...

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JL, their letters to each other clearly indicate their fears you remind us. Remember they were survivors of the corruption you iterate. They were also imbued with the idea that governance not be so heavy as to burden. Their remarkable intellect ran that painful gauntlet providing us a blueprint spanning centuries. They also (Jefferson) warned that “tyrants” would beset us, and that this was a necessary evil to “refresh the tree of liberty.”

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J L

John Adams, I do not think, anticipated the evolution of his Massachusetts Constitution, written in 1779, into our current situation of Democratic Prostitution.

Even though Adams himself was being paid by John Hancock so Hancock could avoid taxes. British taxes that is.

But, I wonder if John Hancock EVER paid any taxes even after he had his own country??

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Say what you will. but Biden's strategy of marginalizing the MAGA faction within the GOP as a whole has been working. Not only in the recent GOP debt ceiling debacle but also in the 2022 election cycle where Democrats won in districts where Republicans had a higher turnout. Enough Republicans will cross over to tip the scales in favor of a Democrat when the Democrat is running against a radical or unqualified Republican i.e. GA, AZ and NV in 2022.

It's hard for some Democrats to wrap their heads around this phenomenon because they wrongly dump the whole GOP into the same bucket. Conversely I'm still pleasantly stunned by the turn-around in Michigan and now Minnesota.

As for "woke", we need to rally behind the word. I have to be woke, the alternative is not an option if I want to live in a democracy.

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In Michigan we lassoed gerrymandering and put the elections back into the hands of the “voters, not politicians”

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When that happened I suddenly regained hope for the future. I hope it infects voters in Ohio where I live. I know there are still many irrational folks there clinging to the MAGA faux philosophy but believe with time they will be marginalized as their numbers dwindle in the face of legislative successes. #goodforyou.

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The ballot proposal had tenacious backers and petition drive workers. Every rest stop on the highway backing. Once in place, the results were astoundingly clear

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Agreed. Woke = goodness, tolerance, love, acceptance, inclusion, truth and a clear, honest recounting of history.

Woke is wonderful. The alternative is to be asleep, unconsciously dangerous, robotic or simply dead.

And...it's a lot more than some Republicans waking up to the horrors of Fascism. We should remember that the TQP and the Dems each only hold roughly 25% of potential voters. The real wild cards are the other 50% who define themselves as "Independents".

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Bill Alstrom, if “woke” is expressed as it should be, What does Desantis have? Our language is so important. We should not allow it to be sullied, misused as is often the case. I registered Independent because it’s exactly what I want to be. Labels are often very debilitating. Consider how Professor explains how the parties philosophies switched over the years.

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Jun 5, 2023·edited Jun 5, 2023

What is "Freedom"? What is "Woke"? What is "Democracy"? What is an authentic "Republic"? The thoughts behind these these symbols make a whole lot of difference. We toss words around like everyone is clear about their meaning, but the same word is often attached to disparate or even inimical agendas; and a lot of spin is deliberately disingenuous,, AKA %#@&-ing Lies.

Yet there seems to be little appetite to challenge the warped logic-bombs themselves. No, "freedom" at least in a meaningful social sense, is not "no regulation"; it is a robust palette of choices, choices that respect the innate freedoms of others; hence boundaries and responsibilities. No to fraud, no to rape, no to pollution, etc, etc. And there are wise laws and foolish laws; beneficial laws and evil laws; are there not? That is "the problem", not "goverment" per se. And "Small Government" is not impunity for the ultra-wealthy and connected, and heavy handed coercion for everyone else; because take a look of what Reagan-school "Republicans" have really been up to for the last four decades? Who gained? Who suffers? There is a ton of fraudulent definitions being sold out there, and too many of those on the short end of the stick failing to forcefully call the bluff.

Orwell's idea of Newspeak was that a hobbled language would impede the public from putting 2 and 2 together. We are frequently failing to see the fricking forest for the trees. And we had better look up, because a hard rain's gonna fall.

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Bill, I like to think of "woke" as: A state of awakeness, opposite that of sleep.

"woke" is too ambiguous to be useful. And, it is so poorly defined that anyone can define it in any way they want and, they have.

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Thx TCinLA, paraphraing Comey, Biden is the only choice for President 2024. Comey (who knows a lot about wrecking Presidentail Campaigns) noted there is plenty of time for a federal Indictment of tfg "in the Summer" of 2023. Comey also underscored there is no statutory obstacle on the prosecution of tfg by the State of GA or the State of New York Prosecutors.

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“What is freedom of expression? Without the freedom to offend, it ceases to exist.” ―Salman Rushdie

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Yes, Tom, a critical time for our democracy, and democracy around the world. Speaking of critical times for democracy, a friend of mine borrowed my brand new copy of your book, "Clean Sweep" and cannot put it down. His father served in the Army Air Corps during World War II and had told him harrowing stories about the planes and the battles. Reading your book - and the specifics of why it was so harrowing - has given him a renewed sense of awe of what his father endured and accomplished. And how close the world came to losing democracy. Thank You. (And, as always, Thank You to my sister who sends me the best books!).

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The indictment(s) are LONG overdue.

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So long as they are timely enough, checked and mated.

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I am meeting this week with local leaders of my town Democratic committee to continue organizing a "Dems Precinct Project," as I may call it. My goals is to have a voters education and turnout effort on every street in my town of some 10,000+ people. We will organize street-by-street in order that volunteers like myself will each be responsible for outreach to dozens of voters, in a social as well as political context. THIS plan must be replicated in every municipality in my state ...

I feel it vital for my neighbors (Dems and Indies) to be invited to party, and bring along a dish if one would like. (I prefer to grill the salmon with a drizzle of lemon/blueberry infusion). And talking points will be key, shared in a circle, for here there is no top, and no end. I feel this will be a party that no one will forget, because the party will continue, as surely as the turn of the seasons, and the expectation of our next winning election.

I suggest you consider a call to your local Dems group ... btw, what is your favorite dish?

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Just had a man on Facebook sarcastically belittle my suggestion that it was time Floridians spoke up, gathered together, and loudly protested De Santis’s ideas and actions that are so harmful to his state. As we have watched even in the history of 80+ years lifetime, persistent voices, marching together, standing out to raise the alarms, are successful. It takes effort to spread the word.

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The Perversion of Christianity Grows as the actions of false Prophets infect the psyche of the “easily led”

WWJD?

Indeed, some tables would get rent asunder

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Woke is synonymous with realizing the need to defend human rights.

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True, but people like DeSantis are pushing that movement ever more rightward, and while he doesn't have the personality or the political savvy of DJT to perhaps beat him in the primary, he's younger and much smarter, and will outlast him in life. He has been able to bend the FL legislature to his will; other state legislatures are restricting the executive powers of their Dem governors so as to greatly limit their ability to do the job they were elected to do. And we all know what red states have done, and continue to do, to gerrymandering themselves into seemingly eternal rule. We must look at the big picture here.

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Do I read what you said correctly, that 70% of the American people think DeSantis’s war on “woke” is a good thing?

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No, 70% of people think Being Woke is a good thing....

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What? Better than stupor?

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Lisa, Meredith, you are both saying “woke” is a good thing according to 70% of the people (would like to see that number sourced.)

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I had to read that over too. I think 70 percent thinks "woke," as in enlightened, is a good thing.

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A punctuation wobble.

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Thanks!

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Polling shows most Americans think being Woke is a GOOD thing.

.

https://www.ipsos.com/en-us/americans-divided-whether-woke-compliment-or-insult

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Jun 5, 2023·edited Jun 5, 2023

🦨 If destinkus uses it in definition to belittle a populous that takes umbrage at his delirium then by all means we want to be “Woke.” He is poison. He is the antithesis of liberty. He is the stink which defines shit. DeStinkus. Even the Avon Lady freshens the air in his presence. 🦨🦨🦨🦨🦨

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No, “woke is supported by 70% of the American people who think it is a good thing” ; source please! But if true, yes, it is a good thing.

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The last time I was in London, I had the opportunity to visit the Churchill War Rooms. A fully-immersive WWII experience. Churchill essentially ran the war from the underground bunker, situated underneath Whitehall, accessed through the Treasury Building.

Churchill was a leader non pareil. A grand orator.

Ron DeSatan is a clown. A legend in his own mind. I find it difficult to believe that people take him seriously. A man with the personality of a Roomba (a recent quote from a columnist) and the charisma of linoleum (Michael Hiltzik in the LA Times).

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Your description of DeSantis could equally apply to Hitler who was initially seen by many as a joke.

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Hitler's first attempted Putsch ended in prison where he wrote his Holocaust Plan.

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And still Bryan no one recognized him. German poverty was so complete the spirit of humanity sank in a bleak despair.

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Or to Trump.

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Trump too--a clown!

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"First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win" - Mahatma Gandhi. This now truism works both ways. Be careful of DeSantis. He may be actively filing off his own cogs of reason, but his brand of crazy is still a Yale and Harvard educated one.

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Hear!Hear!

Never underestimate the enemy. Correct! The subtle following is clever too, hidden in many a sheep’s clothing, and as determined as US. Too many subscribe to this cult , The Contagion , The Corporate mentality and muscle of many rich.

We must prevail , persist , persevere .

💙Vote💙

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I’m thinking that the finest learning institution in the world could not penetrate such a dense mind except to drive it deeper into the oblivion of insanity. He emerged a psychopath. A close friend of mine with his sheepskin from Harvard also descended into the oblivion of insanity and has since passed.

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Perfect. I read DeSantis' "woke" comments and marvel at the banal, but evil, dopiness of it all.

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DeSantis speaks to a level of understanding and support. Sad, isn’t it?

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Linoleum! good one.

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Quick vision of that consummate old master of the English language, giving a roar of "WOKE???", scrambling down from his pedestal in Parliament Square, and whacking that little mafioso over the head with his bronze walking stick.

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LOVE IT!!! Thank you, Anne-Louise ❤️‍🩹

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Does anyone here feel or think that what is happening in Hungary and Florida/USA is reminiscent of 1930s Germany( before the war)? Its a real question, not meant to be rhetorical.

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Yes Carole. The entire top floor on the Holocaust Mueum in DC is focused directly on that decade in Germany with many wrenching historical details. The Museum elevator to the 3rd floor is a replica the inside of a train car to the death camps.

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I was there at the DC Holocaust Museum 10 years ago with my first cousins. For me, it was a harrowing experience since our parents were Holocaust victims. The bottom floor is where there are eternal lights lit at the mention of each camp where millions perished. When I got to the camp of Chelmno, I lost it. A woman standing nearby handed me a tissue. Chelmno is where our grandparents were gassed in 1942. It takes your breath away when you see actual Nazi films or of the millions of shoes piled on top of each other. The train car was so frightening to me. One of my cousins is from London. She said the Museum in DC was the most comprehensive out of all the museums she had been to.

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Oh man, the shoes is where I completely lost it. The Holocaust Museum in DC just rips your heart out. It is a very difficult tour but one I think everyone who can should do.

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