Here's my thoughts about that elephant in the room. It struck me as odd that in light of his debate performance, several hours later, Biden was in North Carolina back to his "old" self, looking and acting vibrant. I kept asking myself why is that?
Then it struck me; if indeed he was suffering from a viral infect…
Here's my thoughts about that elephant in the room. It struck me as odd that in light of his debate performance, several hours later, Biden was in North Carolina back to his "old" self, looking and acting vibrant. I kept asking myself why is that?
Then it struck me; if indeed he was suffering from a viral infection that hit its peak in the throes of the debate, it makes perfect sense that his performance would be greatly affected. I noticed that in North Carolina while waiting to take the podium, he kept dabbing his eyes and nose with a tissue, something he wasn't doing during the debate. Why? Because that's what happens when a virus is traveling through your body. At least, that's what I've experienced when I've been afflicted. Usually, for me, first my chest tightens and then several hours later, the eyes become weepy and the nose starts dripping.
This is a plausible argument to me for his poor performance. His body was busy trying to fight off the virus while he was trying to fight off a fascist liar. Yet, as others have pointed out, if you read the transcript of his remarks, he made compelling arguments that were actually lucid. In other words, he was stuck in a body that failed to cooperate at the worst possible time.
I think it was more than that, Biden was psychologically unprepared for Trump's tsunami of lies and hooks, but there is tried and true strategy for taking this kind of thing on. It is something which can be learned. I don't think the 2nd debate will be a repeat of what we saw the other night.
Frank, I don't think there IS much point to a second "debate"! Why give tRump the space, time & attention to spew his fantasies and wishes? He may be a great actor but a great leader he ain't so don't give him the space.
Fight fire with fire, John, just Biden doesn't need lies. He needs to keep the passion lit that we saw in State of the Union and yesterday's NC rally etc.
There are techniques for handling fire hydrant rhetoric. an upbeat message with main points, don't get drawn into obvious falsehoods and barbs. There are risks either way. Biden will be perceived as backing down, a real negative. Biden with help can learn an effective approach. It's kinda like imagining your team rooting for you, Trump did exactly that, as if he were preaching to his base. Biden needs to learn more emotional management against Trump. I think he can do it.
What I don’t understand is why Biden wasn’t more prepared for this after days of mock debates with a Trump impersonator. The real thing is just too overwhelming apparently.
Great actor?? Carnival Barker! IF there is a second debate, Biden should NOT NOT NOT let CNN "host" it. They have been a bane on the USA for over a decade.
Perhaps a PRATT (Points Refuted A Thousand Times) collection should be made into a master "Lie List" with the best refutations cited for each lie. and organized into initial dates told, number of times told in total, in each speech, and how often disconnected from the question asked.
My dream would be to see a collection of video clips organized into most often repeated lies, and a separate collection of time he told the verifiable truth (if any, and if it was actually in response to the question asked).
Is there a video editor out there who can make such a collection of even just what Trump said in the "debate" and actually relevant to the question asked?
A lot of time could be saved by just showing the moderators asking questions and only showing the portions of Trump's responses that had anything at all to do with the question asked.
Then show the questions asked, and Trump's answers that haven't been refuted a thousand times (if there are any).
Jim, TFFFG reminds me of a Chatty Cathy doll, you know the kind you pull a string on its back and recorded “talk” is heard. He’s like that….all his talk is just repeated (ad nauseam) lies, exaggerations and flights of fancy self aggrandizement.
Yes! And if there is a second debate, Biden should refer the audience to the White House website for a post-debate fact check of Trump's lies and then just talk to the American people directly, just like a fireside chat.
Frank, it wasn't a debate, and the next one won't be either. NO MORE DEBATES. We know these two men and who/what they stand for. I doubt many minds were changed Thursday, given the performance of the president and the convicted felon.
There were a lot of valued suggestions in this thread. All I'm saying, if Trump can do it, there are effective debate counters. Of course it isn't a real debate. NONE of them are. Better not to walk away from this, esp considering the Biden team initiated this one.
Remember the Gish Gallop debate technique Heather mentioned in her news summary on the 27th Plus his medical condition of stuttering...Combining these two things is a Very Good explanation of what happened at the debate..plus physically perhaps he had a cold with his voice being hoarse...
Ill stick to there are learnable counterpoints for the GG Trump style. Biden's increased stutter and losing his train of thought indicates he wasn't psychologically or properly prepared for this.
Or, Frank, based on what’s been reported about prep, maybe OVER prepared….coming to do a PhD dissertation opposite a toddler who has had too much sugar.
lol Barbara. I think his prep missed how to handle firehose bite and bait incessant lying. There are techniques I'm sure, trick is Biden temperamentally able to learn not how to be emotionally hijacked, then lose it with endless defences, pointless striking back. I'm hardly trained, but i know seasoned debaters can dish back what was given, without lies!
Frank, reading some of the huge number of comments on how Biden should/should not have responded, I kept seeing in my mind’s eye Biden putting his hand to his forehead making an “L” sign….interchangeable for “Loser” or “Liar”. Think that would have gotten TFFFG’s goat! Just a thought!😆
Frank, I am disappointed that so many folks seem to have abandoned Biden after his debate prat fall….WTF? Turning their backs on the best thing to happen to the office of POTUS in decades is IMHO cowardly….cutting and running instead of rallying and supporting him AND giving the TFFFG—a faux-gold plated legendary liar of liars carny barker—a veritable pass. Way to go team…..NOT!
Take a look at Friday night's Lawrence on msnbc, he does a stand up job of backing up Biden and he saw what all the "naysayers" are going on about. I posted an internet link in an earlier posting, but just google him on Youtube. Ad free then ends with a Chinese? colouring page. ignore that. From Jill Biden's remark, it seems Biden really was fighting a nasty infection. My other remarks about proper prep for Trump style grandstanding remain on board. There is NOTHING normal about Trump.
If there is a second 'debate', Biden should refer the audience to the White House website for a post-debate fact check of Trump's lies and then talk to the American people directly, just like a fireside chat. Tell moving stories, even funny stories, and refer to his felon opponent only with sarcastic ridicule. Like FDR.
yes kinda talk "through Trump" straight to the audience and them only in the main allowing he has to address anchors' questions, but keep Trump oblivious except for needed format rebuttal
He could have taken an OTC cold pill prior. They can be nasty in and of themselves. It is of utmost importance that from here on out we do and say nothing but about the good we know he has done. That debate is irrelevant except for the underground info Tramp was seeping out like Heather was pointing out. Our focus needs to be on saving our country!
I think Trump's grandstanding is full of excellent material to either just present, or rebuff with real information, real video. Eg "everyone loves Roe v Wade" ... just imagine. In fact, Biden did just some of that in North Carolina the following day in grand style.
I am confused and confounded at those who claim Trump won the debate. He didn't answer a single question--and the independent voters he desperately needs didn't get a single policy answer.
I am a 40+ yr registered Democrat, but never voted straight ticket until 2022. I will--from now on--until the GOP eradicates MAGA. I have encouraged other voters who lean right but hate Trump/MAGA to hold their noses and vote Blue until the GOP rights themselves. If they can.
I also ask those who say they won't vote/both are too old/Joe is on a decline: do you believe in our system of government? Vote to protect it. Also, have faith that IF Joe truly cannot perform the job, his cabinet and our Constitution will step in. Can anyone TRULY believe a Trump cabinet would do so? We've had POTUS perish in office before, we need
I read this to her. She said "How kind" and took the "hand". She was encouraged by the clips we saw of his rally last night. She is better and thank you for asking.
Hey, Miselle. I like your suggestion of saying to someone who doesn't want to vote, that if they believe in our system of government they should vote to protect it. To me, it's much better than trying to convince them who to vote for.
"...saying to someone who doesn't want to vote, that if they believe in our system of government they should vote to protect it. To me, it's much better than trying to convince them who to vote for..."
Seems very much in the spirit of Willie Velasquez after he had founded the Southwest Voter Registration and Education Project (nonpartisan and far less confrontational than the earlier MAYO he also helped found and Raza Unida). The early years grew out of dissatisfaction with the then (early 1970's) conservative Democratic power structure in Texas (as the conservative Democrats were remaining the same type of "conservatives" but under the opposite party label).
They are credited with getting 2.6 million voter registered (to me, since they became the oldest and largest NON-PARTISAN Latino voter participation organization. We believe in registering informed voters in the greatest numbers possible.
"...Velásquez wanted Latinos to vote, but he also wanted them to be part of the informed electorate. In 1984, he started the Southwest Voter Research Institute, to conduct polls among Latino voters on policy issues. In 1981, he formed the Southwest Council of La Raza, a forerunner of the National Council of La Raza. He taught politics at Harvard University. His nonpartisan Southwest Voter group was advising major candidates including George H.W. Bush and Ted Kennedy..."
Yeah. The Beaux of the world are helpful to my humility. In my freshman year at a small liberal arts college in the South I got into a debate in Poli.-Sci. class with a 'Beau'. I had come in from a fine high school and felt I should show restraint so I would not crush his spirit.
🫣
Imagine my surprise when that 'Beau' ran circles around me in that square-off. One of the many rather embarrassing, though comical in recollection, come-uppances in life. That 'Beau' had a fine mind and character. I did not realize how fortunate I had been for many years.
I stayed with my old party until I was 50, becoming Independent in 1996 when I saw they were not refuting the disgusting Newt Gingrich/Frank Luntz GoPac memo, "Language: A Key Mechanism of Control" and the shunning of any who dared socialize with or hire nonpartisan lobbyists. It was very near the same time Elizabeth Warren left the party for what seems the same reasons.
I considered supporting some like Christine Todd Whitman, who at least tried to get more reasonable EPA actions than the rest of the Bush 43 administration (even resigning in 2007 since she could not defend the administration's attempt to allow major modifications to power plants without new pollution controls. (To me, she had better sense of benefit/cost ratios to provide the needed benefits to the environment at a necessary cost that could be a well defended priority.)
Though I, too, will not vote (and have not voted for), any Republican or anti-Democratic Independent candidate since I wrote in Sheila Bair in the 2004, I do appreciate some of what Todd Whitman has tried since she resigned from the EPA.
"...Christine Todd Whitman, a onetime Republican and former governor of New Jersey who served as the administrator of the E.P.A. during the George W. Bush administration, said that environmental regulations sometimes could go too far and needed to be tempered by courts. But she said she saw the Supreme Court’s recent decisions as an alarming new precedent..."
(Hyperlinks within the portion presented here have been removed, see the article for the detail hyperlinks.)
“…In 2011, Whitman was named to the board of Americans Elect.
In February 2013, Whitman supported legal recognition of same-sex marriage in an amicus brief to the U.S. Supreme Court.
As of 2015, Whitman is a member of the ReFormers Caucus of Issue One. The group, which included 100 other former elected officials advocated for campaign finance reform.
In 2016, Whitman was named the co-chair of the Joint Ocean Commission Initiative.
On February 26, 2016, she endorsed John Kasich in his bid seeking the GOP nomination for presidential candidate. She said that Donald Trump was using "fascist" tactics in his campaign and after Chris Christie's endorsement of Trump said that, in the case of a Trump nomination by the GOP, she would vote for Hillary Clinton. In 2018, Whitman wrote an op-ed calling Trump unfit for office and urging other Republicans to pressure him to step down.
In February 2020, Whitman endorsed former Massachusetts Governor Bill Weld for president in the Republican primaries, in which he was challenging incumbent president Donald Trump. Whitman spoke at the 2020 Democratic National Convention, endorsing Democratic nominee Joe Biden over Republican nominee Donald Trump in the general election.
Whitman co-founded the States United Democracy Center in 2021. and, as of 2022, serves as its co-chair. In her States United capacity, she was among the former state officials who submitted testimony to the U.S. House of Representatives Select Committee to Investigate the January 6 Attack on the United States Capitol, arguing that the attack was part of "a sustained and coordinated effort by the former president and his anti-democracy allies to suppress voting rights, delegitimize free and fair elections, and subvert the will of the voters by overturning election results deemed undesirable to their movement." In July 2022, Whitman was among three former Republican governors who submitted a friend-of-the-court brief to the U.S. Supreme Court, urging the court to uphold provisions of the federal Voting Rights Acts of 1965 that protect minority voters from having their voting power diluted.
In 2022, Whitman joined former Democratic presidential candidate Andrew Yang to create the Forward Party, a centrist third party…”
I would rather have seen her helping start an Opposition Coalition similar to the one that won the majority in the 34th Congress (elected in 1854) when the anti-Nebraska Act candidates started campaigning before any actually ran as the too newly named Republicans.
In reviewing what she has been doing before and after 2007, I came across her husband’s Yale of 66 45th Reunion Essay (perhaps a case of behind a great woman, a great man).
I believe that the members of the Class of 1966 will, in aggregate, see more change in their personal, professional and global lives in the next five years than they have experienced in the past four decades.
I have been married to a beautiful, smart, loving and successful wife for 37 years. We have two attractive children who have exceptional spouses of their own and three grandchildren. Ours is a classic 20th Century American family, but it is going to change. Since it is impossible to know what those changes might be, it probably isn’t worth worrying about them much.
However, I believe we better do something about our country and our World. There are many issues to discuss but for this brief essay I would like to mention two.
The Americans, who rescued Europe and the World twice in 30 years, came home with the American Dream which simply stated said: If you work hard, you can succeed at just about anything you want to do. This dream lasted until the 1990s when a number of politicians discovered that they could get and stay elected if they promised to provide an unsustainable standard of living even if they never delivered it. An important corollary to this was that all Americans “deserved” this standard of living whether they worked for it or not. Unless we reestablish the original American Dream in the hearts and minds of our people, our children will see a continuing erosion in their prospects for success.
America’s dependence on foreign oil erodes its moral standing in the world and pours billions of dollars into the coffers of terrorists. Until we become energy self-sufficient, we will be forced to follow an inconsistent foreign policy that not only makes a mockery of our fundamental ethical strength but emboldens our enemies and enriches our competitors.
*
I also remember John for his generosity of spirit, his invitations to Drumthwacket for several Yale football games against Princeton, his being (with Christie) the breeder who gave our country its famous First Scottie, Barney of the Bush White House, a Commandeur de Bordeaux, a Pilgrim, and just being a loyal friend.
John Whitman was, through and through, a patriot and a devoted American. From 1967 to 1972, he served his country with honor as a First Lieutenant in the United States Army stationed in Vietnam and then in the reserves. John always identified his birthday as “D-Day plus two” and, as a lasting memorial, Christie and the family have established the John R. Whitman Normandy Scholars Fund at the World War II Museum in New Orleans. This perpetual endowment, supported by many of John’s classmates and friends, will educate deserving students, with a preference to New Jersey residents, about World War II and send them to Normandy to study and return to their communities to share the lessons of the Normandy campaign…”
I saw Speaker Mike ("Moses") Johnson on tv yesterday suggesting that the House members are considering bringing up the 25th amendment for Biden. (Never mind it's the President's Cabinet that actually has that power.)
My thinking exactly - he looked and acted sick! I have said before - with all the travel & public appearances PLUS PLUS doing his job as President! Lynell, I am SO pissed at the attitudes not only the idiots on the news but people in his own party! I have to stop - this is making me so darn mad. Have to quit & tune out for a bit. Actually, I never did read Anna's latest post - better place to be!!! Right?
Hey, Maggie. I, too, have yet to read Anna's post. I have been consumed with this entire debate aftermath. I promised myself I would read it later today. I hope it's one of her "fun" ones!
I still havent - went to a high school graduation last night - great granddaughter and my "step" granddaughter both graduated in the same class - large class - sitting outside on bleachers for (felt like) many hours & the walk up from the parking lot and back down when thank god all the kids had their diplomas about finished me, my daughter,& her two daughters off!!! I am beat plus feel like my chest might be congested. Lucky I felt fine last night. Arent you glad you replied to my comment???
And does this explain my somewhat testy comments this morning?
I do feel for Biden if he felt anywhere near as lousy as I do AND had to deal with the boob!
Ok Lynell. That makes sense to me but here’s another thought. I have been watching the detective show MONK on Netflix Here’s what could have happened. My thought right after the show was that some MAGat drugged Biden before the show. But now after reading HCR’s brilliant reveal of something most of us didn’t focus on, isn’t it possible that Biden’s performance was a clever ruse to get blowhard45 to do some bragging, and he did. The CIA is right now analyzing the post-debate phone conversation between donnie and puton, who can actually speak English very well. Or, possibly donthecon speaks Russian. Or possibly they have a special secret language only the two of them know. Whew! It’s great to see Biden back to normal. Let’s get tfffg braggioguy locked up and put away.
You're not gonna believe this, Gigi, but I watch Monk, too! Perfect thought about "Here's what happened"! Your theory passes muster with me, I'm here to say. Thanks!
Do you remember the Saturday Night live skit when Reagan went to a secret room and had a conversation in Chinese on the phone? That’s how repubs trick us and the SNL people were trying to warn us! ;-)
I agree with you. And he could not back out of the debate because he "had a cold." so he was trapped on stage with a felon, liar, treasonous carnival barker. He couldn't fight back because he was sick (and likely also in the looney space taking cold medications cause). Watching him in Raleigh made it clear his head had cleared up. He's a fighter, and a winner as President.
Biden was also coughing up a lot of gunk at the Raleigh rally. The first minute I saw him at the debate I thought he was sick.
This is not excuse making here. At the end of the day a combination of illness, the lack of fact checking and a narcissist tsunami all combined to make a disaster.
Lynelle(VA ....) What happened to the President during the debate was eluded to by HCR in yesterday's Letter. It's called the Gish Gallop. Explained or amplified by near the top of today's comments by Ron Boyd (Denver): "The 𝐆𝐢𝐬𝐡 𝐆𝐚𝐥𝐥𝐨𝐩 is a rhetorical technique in which a person in a debate attempts to overwhelm their opponent by providing an excessive number of arguments with no regard for the accuracy or strength of those arguments. (Wikipedia)
"During a Gish Gallop, a debater confronts an opponent with a rapid series of specious arguments, half-truths, misrepresentations, and outright lies in a short space of time, which makes it impossible for the opponent to refute all of them within the format of a formal debate."
This has been very helpful to me for understanding what happened, and the effect Trump has on people.
Thanks, Judith. I did read about the Gish Gallop first from HCR and then several other sources like Ron Boyd. It sure helped me as well for how the President was ambushed. My comment about his being ill with a possible virus was meant to be sort of an explanation for what his body was possibly going through at the time. I think all of us know what it's like to try to "carry on" in the face of a flu-like virus. It's just my lay opinion that had he been 100%, he could have been more effective whether or not he knew about Gish Gallop,
And Bob Woodward (of the Nixon tapes and all the books regarding trump) said journalists should be looking into why Biden was struggling, and pundits were instead overreacting.
Hear the effing Hear, Will!
Here's my thoughts about that elephant in the room. It struck me as odd that in light of his debate performance, several hours later, Biden was in North Carolina back to his "old" self, looking and acting vibrant. I kept asking myself why is that?
Then it struck me; if indeed he was suffering from a viral infection that hit its peak in the throes of the debate, it makes perfect sense that his performance would be greatly affected. I noticed that in North Carolina while waiting to take the podium, he kept dabbing his eyes and nose with a tissue, something he wasn't doing during the debate. Why? Because that's what happens when a virus is traveling through your body. At least, that's what I've experienced when I've been afflicted. Usually, for me, first my chest tightens and then several hours later, the eyes become weepy and the nose starts dripping.
This is a plausible argument to me for his poor performance. His body was busy trying to fight off the virus while he was trying to fight off a fascist liar. Yet, as others have pointed out, if you read the transcript of his remarks, he made compelling arguments that were actually lucid. In other words, he was stuck in a body that failed to cooperate at the worst possible time.
I think it was more than that, Biden was psychologically unprepared for Trump's tsunami of lies and hooks, but there is tried and true strategy for taking this kind of thing on. It is something which can be learned. I don't think the 2nd debate will be a repeat of what we saw the other night.
Frank, I don't think there IS much point to a second "debate"! Why give tRump the space, time & attention to spew his fantasies and wishes? He may be a great actor but a great leader he ain't so don't give him the space.
How can one "debate" things with someone who makes things up as he goes along?
Fight fire with fire, John, just Biden doesn't need lies. He needs to keep the passion lit that we saw in State of the Union and yesterday's NC rally etc.
Biden should shun debates and announce he's going on a Truth Tour instead (and send out the rest of his troops as well.)
There are techniques for handling fire hydrant rhetoric. an upbeat message with main points, don't get drawn into obvious falsehoods and barbs. There are risks either way. Biden will be perceived as backing down, a real negative. Biden with help can learn an effective approach. It's kinda like imagining your team rooting for you, Trump did exactly that, as if he were preaching to his base. Biden needs to learn more emotional management against Trump. I think he can do it.
I think he can as well. But don't give CF45 more oxygen, as the blimp is overinflated as it is.
What I don’t understand is why Biden wasn’t more prepared for this after days of mock debates with a Trump impersonator. The real thing is just too overwhelming apparently.
I saw his preparator on a tv interview, before the debate. I think he missed a vital part of the boat. The firehose part.
Great actor?? Carnival Barker! IF there is a second debate, Biden should NOT NOT NOT let CNN "host" it. They have been a bane on the USA for over a decade.
There is a second debate scheduled for Sep 10, with David Muir as moderator, on ABC.
Biden should not do another debate with T… fireside chats is what he should do based on questions from the electorate!
Perhaps a PRATT (Points Refuted A Thousand Times) collection should be made into a master "Lie List" with the best refutations cited for each lie. and organized into initial dates told, number of times told in total, in each speech, and how often disconnected from the question asked.
My dream would be to see a collection of video clips organized into most often repeated lies, and a separate collection of time he told the verifiable truth (if any, and if it was actually in response to the question asked).
Is there a video editor out there who can make such a collection of even just what Trump said in the "debate" and actually relevant to the question asked?
A lot of time could be saved by just showing the moderators asking questions and only showing the portions of Trump's responses that had anything at all to do with the question asked.
Then show the questions asked, and Trump's answers that haven't been refuted a thousand times (if there are any).
Jim, TFFFG reminds me of a Chatty Cathy doll, you know the kind you pull a string on its back and recorded “talk” is heard. He’s like that….all his talk is just repeated (ad nauseam) lies, exaggerations and flights of fancy self aggrandizement.
Yes! And if there is a second debate, Biden should refer the audience to the White House website for a post-debate fact check of Trump's lies and then just talk to the American people directly, just like a fireside chat.
John, don’t know about the “great actor” moniker, a one-hit-wonder-huckster maybe. And he’s not acting it’s —>just who he is<—.
JohnM: yes, exactly. I've been saying the same thing.
Frank, it wasn't a debate, and the next one won't be either. NO MORE DEBATES. We know these two men and who/what they stand for. I doubt many minds were changed Thursday, given the performance of the president and the convicted felon.
There were a lot of valued suggestions in this thread. All I'm saying, if Trump can do it, there are effective debate counters. Of course it isn't a real debate. NONE of them are. Better not to walk away from this, esp considering the Biden team initiated this one.
Remember the Gish Gallop debate technique Heather mentioned in her news summary on the 27th Plus his medical condition of stuttering...Combining these two things is a Very Good explanation of what happened at the debate..plus physically perhaps he had a cold with his voice being hoarse...
Ill stick to there are learnable counterpoints for the GG Trump style. Biden's increased stutter and losing his train of thought indicates he wasn't psychologically or properly prepared for this.
Or, Frank, based on what’s been reported about prep, maybe OVER prepared….coming to do a PhD dissertation opposite a toddler who has had too much sugar.
lol Barbara. I think his prep missed how to handle firehose bite and bait incessant lying. There are techniques I'm sure, trick is Biden temperamentally able to learn not how to be emotionally hijacked, then lose it with endless defences, pointless striking back. I'm hardly trained, but i know seasoned debaters can dish back what was given, without lies!
Frank, reading some of the huge number of comments on how Biden should/should not have responded, I kept seeing in my mind’s eye Biden putting his hand to his forehead making an “L” sign….interchangeable for “Loser” or “Liar”. Think that would have gotten TFFFG’s goat! Just a thought!😆
He did say something at the end (don't recall what) which got his goat--you could tell by that stupid smirk
lol i was interested in how many "real voters" said Trump was an out and out liar, Biden didn't do well in this debate, but he was their man.
Frank, I am disappointed that so many folks seem to have abandoned Biden after his debate prat fall….WTF? Turning their backs on the best thing to happen to the office of POTUS in decades is IMHO cowardly….cutting and running instead of rallying and supporting him AND giving the TFFFG—a faux-gold plated legendary liar of liars carny barker—a veritable pass. Way to go team…..NOT!
Take a look at Friday night's Lawrence on msnbc, he does a stand up job of backing up Biden and he saw what all the "naysayers" are going on about. I posted an internet link in an earlier posting, but just google him on Youtube. Ad free then ends with a Chinese? colouring page. ignore that. From Jill Biden's remark, it seems Biden really was fighting a nasty infection. My other remarks about proper prep for Trump style grandstanding remain on board. There is NOTHING normal about Trump.
If there is a second 'debate', Biden should refer the audience to the White House website for a post-debate fact check of Trump's lies and then talk to the American people directly, just like a fireside chat. Tell moving stories, even funny stories, and refer to his felon opponent only with sarcastic ridicule. Like FDR.
yes kinda talk "through Trump" straight to the audience and them only in the main allowing he has to address anchors' questions, but keep Trump oblivious except for needed format rebuttal
Barbara, brilliant!
He could have taken an OTC cold pill prior. They can be nasty in and of themselves. It is of utmost importance that from here on out we do and say nothing but about the good we know he has done. That debate is irrelevant except for the underground info Tramp was seeping out like Heather was pointing out. Our focus needs to be on saving our country!
I think Trump's grandstanding is full of excellent material to either just present, or rebuff with real information, real video. Eg "everyone loves Roe v Wade" ... just imagine. In fact, Biden did just some of that in North Carolina the following day in grand style.
If Trump is smart, he'll avoid a 2nd debate
I am confused and confounded at those who claim Trump won the debate. He didn't answer a single question--and the independent voters he desperately needs didn't get a single policy answer.
I am a 40+ yr registered Democrat, but never voted straight ticket until 2022. I will--from now on--until the GOP eradicates MAGA. I have encouraged other voters who lean right but hate Trump/MAGA to hold their noses and vote Blue until the GOP rights themselves. If they can.
I also ask those who say they won't vote/both are too old/Joe is on a decline: do you believe in our system of government? Vote to protect it. Also, have faith that IF Joe truly cannot perform the job, his cabinet and our Constitution will step in. Can anyone TRULY believe a Trump cabinet would do so? We've had POTUS perish in office before, we need
to vote on policies.
Exactly so!
Good morning, Ally. Hope your wife is doing better. If my arm could
extend halfway across the country, I'd hold her hand and
give it a supportive squeeze.
I read this to her. She said "How kind" and took the "hand". She was encouraged by the clips we saw of his rally last night. She is better and thank you for asking.
Charitable exchange, ladies. Thank you for showing me the way.
Ally, I too am glad your wife is feeling better.
Me, too, Ally.
Glad to hear that she is better.
Hey, Miselle. I like your suggestion of saying to someone who doesn't want to vote, that if they believe in our system of government they should vote to protect it. To me, it's much better than trying to convince them who to vote for.
"...saying to someone who doesn't want to vote, that if they believe in our system of government they should vote to protect it. To me, it's much better than trying to convince them who to vote for..."
Seems very much in the spirit of Willie Velasquez after he had founded the Southwest Voter Registration and Education Project (nonpartisan and far less confrontational than the earlier MAYO he also helped found and Raza Unida). The early years grew out of dissatisfaction with the then (early 1970's) conservative Democratic power structure in Texas (as the conservative Democrats were remaining the same type of "conservatives" but under the opposite party label).
They are credited with getting 2.6 million voter registered (to me, since they became the oldest and largest NON-PARTISAN Latino voter participation organization. We believe in registering informed voters in the greatest numbers possible.
See https://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/hispanic-heritage-month-2016/pbs-showcases-willie-vel-squez-latino-voting-rights-hero-n657556
"...Velásquez wanted Latinos to vote, but he also wanted them to be part of the informed electorate. In 1984, he started the Southwest Voter Research Institute, to conduct polls among Latino voters on policy issues. In 1981, he formed the Southwest Council of La Raza, a forerunner of the National Council of La Raza. He taught politics at Harvard University. His nonpartisan Southwest Voter group was advising major candidates including George H.W. Bush and Ted Kennedy..."
An interesting take of the debate.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lDPI_xqcyrk
Thanks, Ned. Beau's a keeper!
I watch Beau daily. He is phenomenal!
Yeah. The Beaux of the world are helpful to my humility. In my freshman year at a small liberal arts college in the South I got into a debate in Poli.-Sci. class with a 'Beau'. I had come in from a fine high school and felt I should show restraint so I would not crush his spirit.
🫣
Imagine my surprise when that 'Beau' ran circles around me in that square-off. One of the many rather embarrassing, though comical in recollection, come-uppances in life. That 'Beau' had a fine mind and character. I did not realize how fortunate I had been for many years.
😉
EDIT: Ralph Kramden is my patron saint.
I stayed with my old party until I was 50, becoming Independent in 1996 when I saw they were not refuting the disgusting Newt Gingrich/Frank Luntz GoPac memo, "Language: A Key Mechanism of Control" and the shunning of any who dared socialize with or hire nonpartisan lobbyists. It was very near the same time Elizabeth Warren left the party for what seems the same reasons.
I considered supporting some like Christine Todd Whitman, who at least tried to get more reasonable EPA actions than the rest of the Bush 43 administration (even resigning in 2007 since she could not defend the administration's attempt to allow major modifications to power plants without new pollution controls. (To me, she had better sense of benefit/cost ratios to provide the needed benefits to the environment at a necessary cost that could be a well defended priority.)
Though I, too, will not vote (and have not voted for), any Republican or anti-Democratic Independent candidate since I wrote in Sheila Bair in the 2004, I do appreciate some of what Todd Whitman has tried since she resigned from the EPA.
Some examples:
Most recent - see https://www.nytimes.com/2024/06/29/climate/supreme-court-epa.html
"...Christine Todd Whitman, a onetime Republican and former governor of New Jersey who served as the administrator of the E.P.A. during the George W. Bush administration, said that environmental regulations sometimes could go too far and needed to be tempered by courts. But she said she saw the Supreme Court’s recent decisions as an alarming new precedent..."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christine_Todd_Whitman
(Hyperlinks within the portion presented here have been removed, see the article for the detail hyperlinks.)
“…In 2011, Whitman was named to the board of Americans Elect.
In February 2013, Whitman supported legal recognition of same-sex marriage in an amicus brief to the U.S. Supreme Court.
As of 2015, Whitman is a member of the ReFormers Caucus of Issue One. The group, which included 100 other former elected officials advocated for campaign finance reform.
In 2016, Whitman was named the co-chair of the Joint Ocean Commission Initiative.
On February 26, 2016, she endorsed John Kasich in his bid seeking the GOP nomination for presidential candidate. She said that Donald Trump was using "fascist" tactics in his campaign and after Chris Christie's endorsement of Trump said that, in the case of a Trump nomination by the GOP, she would vote for Hillary Clinton. In 2018, Whitman wrote an op-ed calling Trump unfit for office and urging other Republicans to pressure him to step down.
In February 2020, Whitman endorsed former Massachusetts Governor Bill Weld for president in the Republican primaries, in which he was challenging incumbent president Donald Trump. Whitman spoke at the 2020 Democratic National Convention, endorsing Democratic nominee Joe Biden over Republican nominee Donald Trump in the general election.
Whitman co-founded the States United Democracy Center in 2021. and, as of 2022, serves as its co-chair. In her States United capacity, she was among the former state officials who submitted testimony to the U.S. House of Representatives Select Committee to Investigate the January 6 Attack on the United States Capitol, arguing that the attack was part of "a sustained and coordinated effort by the former president and his anti-democracy allies to suppress voting rights, delegitimize free and fair elections, and subvert the will of the voters by overturning election results deemed undesirable to their movement." In July 2022, Whitman was among three former Republican governors who submitted a friend-of-the-court brief to the U.S. Supreme Court, urging the court to uphold provisions of the federal Voting Rights Acts of 1965 that protect minority voters from having their voting power diluted.
In 2022, Whitman joined former Democratic presidential candidate Andrew Yang to create the Forward Party, a centrist third party…”
I would rather have seen her helping start an Opposition Coalition similar to the one that won the majority in the 34th Congress (elected in 1854) when the anti-Nebraska Act candidates started campaigning before any actually ran as the too newly named Republicans.
In reviewing what she has been doing before and after 2007, I came across her husband’s Yale of 66 45th Reunion Essay (perhaps a case of behind a great woman, a great man).
See https://yale66.org/john-r-whitman/
“…*
John R. Whitman’s 45th Reunion Essay
I believe that the members of the Class of 1966 will, in aggregate, see more change in their personal, professional and global lives in the next five years than they have experienced in the past four decades.
I have been married to a beautiful, smart, loving and successful wife for 37 years. We have two attractive children who have exceptional spouses of their own and three grandchildren. Ours is a classic 20th Century American family, but it is going to change. Since it is impossible to know what those changes might be, it probably isn’t worth worrying about them much.
However, I believe we better do something about our country and our World. There are many issues to discuss but for this brief essay I would like to mention two.
The Americans, who rescued Europe and the World twice in 30 years, came home with the American Dream which simply stated said: If you work hard, you can succeed at just about anything you want to do. This dream lasted until the 1990s when a number of politicians discovered that they could get and stay elected if they promised to provide an unsustainable standard of living even if they never delivered it. An important corollary to this was that all Americans “deserved” this standard of living whether they worked for it or not. Unless we reestablish the original American Dream in the hearts and minds of our people, our children will see a continuing erosion in their prospects for success.
America’s dependence on foreign oil erodes its moral standing in the world and pours billions of dollars into the coffers of terrorists. Until we become energy self-sufficient, we will be forced to follow an inconsistent foreign policy that not only makes a mockery of our fundamental ethical strength but emboldens our enemies and enriches our competitors.
*
I also remember John for his generosity of spirit, his invitations to Drumthwacket for several Yale football games against Princeton, his being (with Christie) the breeder who gave our country its famous First Scottie, Barney of the Bush White House, a Commandeur de Bordeaux, a Pilgrim, and just being a loyal friend.
John Whitman was, through and through, a patriot and a devoted American. From 1967 to 1972, he served his country with honor as a First Lieutenant in the United States Army stationed in Vietnam and then in the reserves. John always identified his birthday as “D-Day plus two” and, as a lasting memorial, Christie and the family have established the John R. Whitman Normandy Scholars Fund at the World War II Museum in New Orleans. This perpetual endowment, supported by many of John’s classmates and friends, will educate deserving students, with a preference to New Jersey residents, about World War II and send them to Normandy to study and return to their communities to share the lessons of the Normandy campaign…”
I saw Speaker Mike ("Moses") Johnson on tv yesterday suggesting that the House members are considering bringing up the 25th amendment for Biden. (Never mind it's the President's Cabinet that actually has that power.)
My thinking exactly - he looked and acted sick! I have said before - with all the travel & public appearances PLUS PLUS doing his job as President! Lynell, I am SO pissed at the attitudes not only the idiots on the news but people in his own party! I have to stop - this is making me so darn mad. Have to quit & tune out for a bit. Actually, I never did read Anna's latest post - better place to be!!! Right?
Hey, Maggie. I, too, have yet to read Anna's post. I have been consumed with this entire debate aftermath. I promised myself I would read it later today. I hope it's one of her "fun" ones!
I still havent - went to a high school graduation last night - great granddaughter and my "step" granddaughter both graduated in the same class - large class - sitting outside on bleachers for (felt like) many hours & the walk up from the parking lot and back down when thank god all the kids had their diplomas about finished me, my daughter,& her two daughters off!!! I am beat plus feel like my chest might be congested. Lucky I felt fine last night. Arent you glad you replied to my comment???
And does this explain my somewhat testy comments this morning?
I do feel for Biden if he felt anywhere near as lousy as I do AND had to deal with the boob!
I won't say more than I hope you feel better soon!
Thanks - me too
Great observation Lynelle.
Thanks, Joy!
Ok Lynell. That makes sense to me but here’s another thought. I have been watching the detective show MONK on Netflix Here’s what could have happened. My thought right after the show was that some MAGat drugged Biden before the show. But now after reading HCR’s brilliant reveal of something most of us didn’t focus on, isn’t it possible that Biden’s performance was a clever ruse to get blowhard45 to do some bragging, and he did. The CIA is right now analyzing the post-debate phone conversation between donnie and puton, who can actually speak English very well. Or, possibly donthecon speaks Russian. Or possibly they have a special secret language only the two of them know. Whew! It’s great to see Biden back to normal. Let’s get tfffg braggioguy locked up and put away.
You're not gonna believe this, Gigi, but I watch Monk, too! Perfect thought about "Here's what happened"! Your theory passes muster with me, I'm here to say. Thanks!
LOL, Gigi, he can barely speak English!
Do you remember the Saturday Night live skit when Reagan went to a secret room and had a conversation in Chinese on the phone? That’s how repubs trick us and the SNL people were trying to warn us! ;-)
I agree with you. And he could not back out of the debate because he "had a cold." so he was trapped on stage with a felon, liar, treasonous carnival barker. He couldn't fight back because he was sick (and likely also in the looney space taking cold medications cause). Watching him in Raleigh made it clear his head had cleared up. He's a fighter, and a winner as President.
Biden was also coughing up a lot of gunk at the Raleigh rally. The first minute I saw him at the debate I thought he was sick.
This is not excuse making here. At the end of the day a combination of illness, the lack of fact checking and a narcissist tsunami all combined to make a disaster.
Lynelle(VA ....) What happened to the President during the debate was eluded to by HCR in yesterday's Letter. It's called the Gish Gallop. Explained or amplified by near the top of today's comments by Ron Boyd (Denver): "The 𝐆𝐢𝐬𝐡 𝐆𝐚𝐥𝐥𝐨𝐩 is a rhetorical technique in which a person in a debate attempts to overwhelm their opponent by providing an excessive number of arguments with no regard for the accuracy or strength of those arguments. (Wikipedia)
"During a Gish Gallop, a debater confronts an opponent with a rapid series of specious arguments, half-truths, misrepresentations, and outright lies in a short space of time, which makes it impossible for the opponent to refute all of them within the format of a formal debate."
This has been very helpful to me for understanding what happened, and the effect Trump has on people.
Thanks, Judith. I did read about the Gish Gallop first from HCR and then several other sources like Ron Boyd. It sure helped me as well for how the President was ambushed. My comment about his being ill with a possible virus was meant to be sort of an explanation for what his body was possibly going through at the time. I think all of us know what it's like to try to "carry on" in the face of a flu-like virus. It's just my lay opinion that had he been 100%, he could have been more effective whether or not he knew about Gish Gallop,
He probably also had to take some sort of cold medication to stop the sneezing etc. That always makes me feel very weird.
My thought was, when I heard he had a cold, that they gave him the wrong Sudafed….the regular kind, not the non-drowsy one!
And Bob Woodward (of the Nixon tapes and all the books regarding trump) said journalists should be looking into why Biden was struggling, and pundits were instead overreacting.
My thoughts exactly!
Good observation, Lynell. Good morning....again!
Well put.