Anyone see poor Heather repeatedly sweltering in what she said was 100 degree heat during her video talk today? Some comments suggested a GoFundMe account to get her a fan. Problem is, the beneficiary has to be willing to accept the funds. And having Mainer ancestry, I can attest to the firmly entrenched trait of Yankee stubbornness to support my bottom dollar bet that dear Heather would decline.
However, what if there were a subtle surge in gift subscriptions to HCR Letters from an American? A nice quiet Dyson fan at $300, divided by 60 subscriptions for $5 a month? Or 6 subscriptions for $50 a year? Or some combination thereof? Win-win-win for your gift subscription recipient, for Heather's sustenance, and for our ongoing political illumination!
Dear Heather,
Many readers advocate for your self-care. How about a nice quiet Dyson fan (not an endorsement--just a suggestion for starters) to get you through those rare but suffocatingly hot Maine summer days when you are stuck inside a little room, sweating in your unwavering commitment to a one hour video talk to spread the word for the preservation of American democracy!
Your dedicated readers would be tickled to see proof of purchase, and a fan would certainly help dissipate any heat-related distraction from a cool, clear-headed thinking enterprise!
As an Ohioan living just south of Jim Jordan's gerrymandered district, i PARTICULARLY appreciate your description of this alleged congressman's tactics and behavior. He embarrasses us every time he opens his mouth. Thank you for your accurate representation!
I was determined to watch the entire hearing and it was very difficult. I wish the Democrats would spend more effort on taking oxygen out of the room as you put it. It felt like the Republicans put energy into preparing while the Democrats just showed up. It was educational to watch but not for the reasons I’d hoped. There is compelling footage of peaceful demonstrators being attacked and federal police dressed like military just in from Afghanistan, and it seems like a huge opportunity untaken that none of it made it into the record of the hearing. Not to mention not pressing Barr on why his police are dressed up in military uniforms that has outraged military leadership.
Not to take issue with you, personally, but every time I see the words “federal police” I question the term in my mind. As I last understood it, America does not and never had a “federal” police force, per se. This goon squad, if I am not mistaken, is made up of individuals pulled from ICE, border patrol, and other legitimate organizations to form a truly “illegitimate” “federal” police force. Some may think I am nit-picking but words DO matter and the more people become comfortable with using the term “federal police” the more likely we will have an unwanted and illegitimate American gestapo. If I am wrong about any of this, I invite (respectful and polite, please) correction to any of the above statements/comments.
Words do matter and I call it like I see it. Gestapo or Schutzstaffel, doing the violent bidding of a fascist leader. They are NOT LEO (Law Enforcement Officers) because they have no training in civilian police procedures and instead are armed like military and attacking unarmed U.S. civilians as if they were enemy combatants.
I agree with you, Karen Smith. We should avoid using the term federal police, as it appears to give legitimacy to Trump’s patchwork assembly of a force consisting of unnamed, unidentifiable, and armed people whose sole purpose is to attack peaceful protesters. It would be great to invent a term for them accurate and pithy enough to enter the public consciousness.
The evening before the hearing I listened to a clip of Glenn Kirschner talking about the questions he would ask Barr if he had the chance. One of them was about these forces that were in Portland. He mentioned a connection to contractors hired for this and would also ask if Betsy DeVos’ brother’s contracting company may have supplied some of them. Later in the afternoon one of my friends mentioned that she had heard the same thing. The question never came up. Does anyone else have info on this?
There was a post in Medium and one in Reddit a few days ago suggesting that Eric Prince’s company had been contracted to provide forces to Portland. At the time I was searching I found nothing written by legitimate journalists supporting that claim.
Karen I agreee with you. I was trying to find a term that didn’t imply a legitimate force. I’m open to ideas. To me federal police has a negative connotation, unlike NPS police, FBI, DEA.
The NPS folks I have known (several, over the years) tend to refer to NPS law enforcement officers as LEOs, which is why I also am uncomfortable with referring to these forces as LEOs as suggested by Lisa Winfeld elsewhere in this sub-thread. It has been publicly stated (though I cannot at this time access citations) that these forces do not have training in civilian policing which, imho, makes them inappropriate for the role they have been thrust into as they are not trained in de-escalation techniques, to mention just one. I don’t have a good term for them and, personally, when necessary to refer to them at all, I generally call them “goon squads”. Not nice, probably not pc, but based on the language and behavior I have seen them exhibit on video seems appropriate. I would definitely NOT refer to them as LEOs because their behavior is unconstitutional.
I am not sure how Democrats counter and evil force like barr. They are still holding on to civility with people who don't deserve it. There needs to be a new generation of Democrats who will use everything in their power to fight Republicans and not capitulate.
I agree Democrats should not sink to the Rep level (Jim Jordan is at the bottom of the ladder). However, the Democrats excell at not being able to get a succinct message out there (listen to Schumer sometime; just flat and complex sentences). They should have had a strong counter message, not just questions with lying answers, at the hearing. Yes, how about a counter video. Where is an articulate NATIONAL VOICE that consistently calls out Trump/Trumpster lies in such a way that the national media report it every day? There needs to be a constant drumbeat---I don't think the Dems understand that. We are NOT dealing with a rational or honest president, and you can say the same of McConnell and the whole bunch of enablers. Reasoned argument will no do the job. Read Greg Palast on RSN on election hijacking. Coming to a precinct near you. Sorry to be in a rant mood this morning, but that's the way it is. Perilous times on all fronts. Peace and Courage.
In HCR’s History & Politics video, I think on April 7, she described the Newt Gingrich tactic of teaching Republican members of Congress a play list of “reasonable” buzz words to use in reference to Republicans and a hyperbolic polarizing list for Democrats. Has anyone ever heard of Democrats brainstorming how to neutralize this tactic? And then systematically implement such an approach?
It sure has not been evident in House hearings. I thought Kamila Harris at least did a good job of keeping control over Barr.
Trump, Barr, Jordan, McConnell, and crew are bullies. We teach kids to de-escalate with humor or walk away, but don’t fight back, do not engage. Do not fight fire with fire.
The Allies placated Hitler for too long and ignored Stalin. But there is a lot to be tried before using physical force.
I am speaking for my husband here, who is following this group closely, but has no computer affinity (so we are a “team” here). He would like to add the following: “Some of the ‘undecideds’ can misunderstand points we make because of Gingrich‘s language manipulation methods. I suggest that we speak of the current government as the ‘Trump Government’ in order to clarify its difference from the legitimate ‘Federal Government’”.
That's a big worry I have. Democrats/liberals are too much into placating Republicans. Fight doesn't mean sinking to their level but one has to identify the enemy and fight to win. When was the last time Republicans tried to placate Democrats?
It’s important to get the DemocratIc message out. You will not be stooping to the Trumpian level if you speak simply and clearly and repeatedly. This will get the message out.
I don't think guns are the way to go. We do need to stop fighting evil with spinelessness. Nancy Pelosi and AOC are going in the right direction. The thousands of protesters in Portland, for all that they are providing footage for barr's claims of civil unrest, are also making it impossible for trump and barr to make anyone believe that their tactics actually produce any kind of law or order. They also give the lie to trump/barr's claims of who they are attacking, for anyone with open eyes to see. For myself, mostly home these days due to covid and unemployment, I am doing what I can to get out the vote via letters.
I totally understand your sentiment as well, and have long said as much. However, these are challenging and vexing times right now. When you have opponents who do not possess shreds of ethics or morality, taking a higher moral ground isn't going to resonate at all with them, though it may make you feel better. Bullies ONLY know bullying. One HAS to learn how to stick up for oneself. As we all know, standing up to bullies, more often not, will make them stand down.
I recount something I did recently: we occasionally receive GOP fundraising robocalls on our land line. My 97-year-old mom is a life-long Republican (she only voted for a Democrat one time: Roosevelt in '44), as was my late dad. She had voted for Bush 2, but didn't vote subsequently because of the direction the GOP was going. She now despises Trump more than I do. We got a call from a particularly insistent campaign worker which I had answered. When the person would not listen at all to anything I was saying, I finally very loudly told her what she and her candidate could do to themselves. My mom heard the exchange, and after I slammed the phone down, said, "well that was a little harsh...", to which I responded, "...'harsh' is the only thing these people understand."
Democrats over the past 3 years have often seemed more RE-active than PRO-active. IMO, and being "morally superior" has gotten us nowhere. No, we don't have to resort to a Jim Jordan level of hyperbole, but we have to stand up for what's right, and sadly that might mean an occasional "getting down in the mud" with your opponents and giving them back--with interest--what they dish out to you. That may be, again, sadly, the only way to score any cred with them. I don't like it. None of us does. But, again, these are times unlike any we've seen in the recent history of this country, at least in my lifetime of 66 years. Now more than ever, we cannot seem to be complacent.
Peri, why do you see it as a binary, carry on with the same or stoop to their level? Look to FDR’s use of artists to generate the groundswell support that enabled him to roll out the New Deal as an example.
Communicating intelligently is not “stooping to their level”. What causes you to conclude that the only way to people’s heartstrings is Jim Jordanism? Would you have told Kennedy not to stoop to TV or FDR radio?
I understand your sentiment. But what would you propose? You cannot win over republicans with kindness. Barr is a repeat. He was quite instrumental in letting some people get away with Iran contra. Now he is back orchestrating teargassing of peaceful protesters and lying about it.
I acquiesce. You're right that we don't need to stoop to Jim jordanism type of garbage, but the only way to stop a bully is to stand up to them? Where has that gotten us with tRump? I don't know what will work.
The president is too powerful especially because the republican senate has been giving him a pass from day 1. So democrats haven't really been able to stand up to trumps's bullying. And given the built in advantage republicans have in the Senate and the electoral college(even if they lose in 2020) I don't see democrats being able to do anything about republicanism anytime soon. In real life not standing up to a bully makes the bullying worse. So it would be nice to see fighting spirit from democrats and that's not going to happen with the old guard who were beaten in submission by 8 years of ray-gun.
Time indeed for everyone to stand up and be counted in the defense of the people, the Constitution and the Declaration of Independence...and to act to ensure the freedoms that they guarantee and the future the country.
“umbrella man” was caught on video smashing windows near the site of Floyd’s murder, starting a wave of fires and looting. He is allegedly a 32-year-old member of the Hell’s Angels motorcycle gang.
Not to be contentious... I did not use the term biker in my comment, however, since you've brought it up, when did Hell's Angels become a respected, law abiding biker club?
You are correct. And both you and I know which bikers Trump is proud to have supporting him. Just like we know which "good people" he is referring to when he talks about the "good people" who carry tiki torches and chant"Jews will not replace us."
I took no offense at the use of biker. And I don't think the Hell's Angels have ever been a respected, law abiding biker club. To be honest I know very little about biker clubs and don't desire to belong to one. I was just suggesting that we not stereotype. I'm a boater, and I have a Harley. We've all seen the boat parades across the country for Trump, and biker rallies as well. But there are many of us in those communities that are not flying Trump flags or wearing Trump patches (I don't wear patches at all). I'm saddened by the division Trump has/is causing. We find ourselves not socializing with many friends because of the tension caused by differing political views. I long for the political debates/discussions of the past, between friends of differing views.
I understand completely. I am reluctant to have conversations with friends and family members who are Trump supporters because their support has led them down some very hateful paths.
Trump, in 2019 specifically cited Bikers for Trump. I don’t think anyone believes most boaters and motorcycle owners are Trump supporters. I think, however, we do need to acknowledge that his call out of specific groups in the context of violence is a very real and dangerous dog whistle. Here is the quote from the Brietbart article. It is chilling:
"I can tell you I have the support of the police, the support of the military, the support of the Bikers for Trump - I have the tough people, but they don't play it tough - until they go to a certain point, and then it would be very bad, very bad," Trump said.
My apologies, Daria Wilbur, you most definitely did NOT use the term bikers in your reply, I made the association. On my side, I didn’t mean to imply the Hell’s Angels were a respectable, law abiding club. I’ve known a lot of bikers through the years, none of which I could imagine supporting him. I guess we all have to be careful with language and generalization, even here in a community of like-minded folks. I never intend to offend and hope I didn’t.
Sorry I didn’t know their preferred gang nsmed and generalized. Most bicyclists are law abiding and some motorized bicycle gangs are “American Law” abiding too.
Hi Lisa, Trump is not referring to bicycle "gangs" but motorcycle gangs, which tend to be violent and criminal as opposed to motorcycle clubs which tend to be groups of incredibly generous men and women who are very active in their communities.
My point is, we know agitators are being used in the cities like Portland where otherwise peaceful protestors are holding legitimate rallies. We now know that one such agitator is this particular Hell’s Angels biker. We know in general Trump claims “bikers” as “his people”. I am suggesting that Trump supporters are using peaceful protesting events to agitate Federal Troops Trump has sent in to put down the agitators, whom Trump says are protestors and likens them to anarchists, while all along they are “his people”.
A couple years ago I attended a Dorothea Lange exhibit at the Oakland Art Museum. I expected to see the famous photos but the real treasure was the education I got in FDR’s recognition that his New Deal would fail unless he could communicate it to the common voter. His use of art, especially photography, was a central and strategic part of doing that. Today’s Democrats have forgotten that, outside of a few exceptions like AOC.
AOC had a great illustrated video she narrated from the perspective of 20 years in the future, looking back at the success of the Green New Deal. I found it very moving and inspiring. I hoped it would make a big splash and be much talked about. Unfortunately, I didn't hear much about it. I thought it was great, and agree that arts should be used as an avenue to expand messages to the public at large.
I couldn't watch the "show" yesterday. bArr has done nothing but lie since the hearings to approve his nomination. I think he should be disbarred for his lying and behavior as the "nations lawyer." It continues to amaze me that there are daily violations of our constitutional rights perpetrated by the tRump goon squad. I just hope we can hold things together long enough to sweep the swamp in Nov. And, that bArr says he will leave office if tRump is not re-elected is a joke, because he'll be replaced immediately. And then, hopefully, will find himself in jail!
Reading through these comments makes me think I watched a different hearing - did no one see Representative Pramila Jayapal's (D-WA) calling-out of Barr? While I agree that the Democrats need a unified message and often come with the knife to the gunfight, Jayapal makes me proud, always, to the one.
In addition, the idea that we are "stooping" to the level of the Republicans when combating their blatantly racist, systematic and unflinching bulldozing through what we thought was a near iron-clad democracy is nothing short of dangerous in and of itself. The idea that we are of higher moral character and must practice meeting people half-way is an invalid construct. One does not meet murderers and racists "half-way." These are perilous times and while we debate nuances, people, mostly Black people, are being ravaged by Covid-19; they and POC, Indigenous people, and all other marginalized folks are suffering from the unending ravages wrought by systemic oppression. Those who are not fighting back against the present-day architects like Barr, Cruz, Jordan, and McConnell (the list goes on) are in essence complicit.
Unified and loud is what we need to be - defunding of the police, protesting, calling on our representatives at all levels of government - and championing those who are willing to literally put their lives on the line (AOC being one of them).
As Rep. Jayapal so adeptly pointed out, white supremacists not only stormed the state capitol in Michigan but also threatened to behead the governor with NO consequence, yet those who are protesting in cities like Portland, Minneapolis, NYC, Seattle in support of Black Lives Matter are being met by federally sponsored thugs in rented mini vans who are beating, pepper spraying, shooting with rubber bullets and grabbing protesters off the street. We're, nor Congress, aren't even certain as to where these people are coming from - and they are being sent in by the guy who holds the highest position in law enforcement. Does that not laser focus the issue more clearly?
Barr, Trump, and all the rest of his cronies are laying concrete plans on how to stay in power by any means necessary, including ignoring the results of the upcoming election. They are making that very, very clear. The quick creation of a militia in order to squelch the "anarchists and mayhem" both legitimizes and normalizes the existence of this force that answers to them (and not the US Military) and only a few months prior to November's looming election. They are worried, very, that it's not going to go their way. The real question is not whether Democrats are playing nice or stooping, but how we are going to usher this administration out of the White House without lighting the match next to the powder keg that is the logical next step - dictatorship.
After watching the PBS Frontline piece, "United States of Conspiracy", aired last night, I wonder how Barr will finesse his support of Roger Stone? Anyone who's paid attention to politics since Nixon, of course, is familiar with just how legitimate Stone is. But what really rattled my cage was seeing just how bat-*hit crazy Alex Jones is. Of course, I knew he was a conspiracy theorist to the max, and had been sued by one of the Sandy Hook dads (rightly so), and perpetuated the Pizzagate BS, but he's way crazier than I realized. And is followers, many of whom are probably my neighbors, are even more rabid, apparently, if that's possible. And around here, they are armed to the teeth. I hear automatic weapons fire every weekend 360 degrees around my rural home. (I often wonder how these folks can afford to blow through so much ammo every weekend; obviously, they are re-loaders.)
Watching clips of Barr's testimony (like Pam Peterson, I couldn't watch the whole thing - my gag reflex isn't that strong), I am more convinced than ever that should Trump lose, he not only won't go peacefully, but his base won't let him. They will, quite literally, defend him to the death. My question is, "Whose?"
I also watched part of the hearing. While I agree that Barr was not only evasive, but also contradicted parts of his confirmation testimony, I was upset that Rep. Pramila Jayapal did not give him the opportunity to answer some of her accusations. She asked a question and then interrupted him with another question before he got more than ten words out. I think she was more keen to make her points in her allotted time than to hear his responses, which was a shame.
As for Jim Jordan, I find the man despicable and wonder how his constituency can put up with a representative so bombastic and unpleasant.
Unfortunately and in general these hearings tend to be soap boxes for members from both sides of the aisle to take their 5 minutes and rant, lecture, whatever. Don't get me wrong, I agree with every word out of Jayapal's mouth but this was supposed to be a hearing not an hours long performance art piece. (How Jim Jordan is even in office is beyond me.)
I think we all would have liked the Dems to ask more follow-up questions and not let him—again—get away with obfuscation. Yes, the best part of the hearing was Rep. Pramila Jayapal. The worst, again, was Jim Jordan's bombast.
Posted this as a "reply" a minute ago, but decided to repost on the main thread. Hope this is ok. (Thanks for your calm voice, Heather)
I agree Democrats should not sink to the Rep level (Jim Jordan is at the bottom of the ladder). However, the Democrats excell at not being able to get a succinct message out there (listen to Schumer sometime; just flat and complex sentences). They should have had a strong counter message, not just questions with lying answers, at the hearing. Yes, how about a counter video. Where is an articulate NATIONAL VOICE that consistently calls out Trump/Trumpster lies in such a way that the national media report it every day? There needs to be a constant drumbeat---I don't think the Dems understand that. We are NOT dealing with a rational or honest president, and you can say the same of McConnell and the whole bunch of enablers. Reasoned argument will no do the job. Read Greg Palast on RSN on election hijacking. Coming to a precinct near you. Sorry to be in a rant mood this morning, but that's the way it is. Perilous times on all fronts. Peace and Courage
I heartily agree!! Would that the Democrats had some folks like that doing videos. Actually the Lincoln Project may "reach" some people who would never pay attention to a Dem ad. But then the opposition is composed, in part, of fervent "true believers," and it takes a real conversion experience to bring someone like that over.
Yes, I know people personally who identify strongly with Trump("we were impeached") or think whatever he does must have a positive explanation. He'd have to become a totally different person to lose followers like that.
My sister lives in Portland where she said the protesting groups had dropped significantly in numbers until the DHS troops arrived. What she has been surprised about (she moved from Arizona) is the number of older Americans that have taken up standing on street corners there with Black Lives Matter signs. The sheer diversity of current protestors is pretty amazing. But what is disheartening is my feeling that things are being falsely stirred up by white supremacists like the man with the umbrella and hammer in Minnesota. Troops were sent in for graffiti and a political video it seems. The only cure it seems is to overwhelmingly vote Trump out.
Your sister is correct: the number of trouble-making protesters had waned significantly until Trump got involved, which triggered a significant response from a diverse group of peaceful protesters. But for months the "bad guys" have set numerous fires, thrown all kinds of dangerous things, and so on. They have no clear goal other than chaos and destruction. Small in number, they've managed to play right into Trump's false law-and-order narrative.
I hate to say this, but I can’t watch these official government hearings anymore. Republicans trounced Democrats again. I don’t know how they do it. We need more strong, smart, people like AOC, Katie Porter, etc.
I honestly think we’re going to end up having to exact change by force, which is a problem, because those who don’t want tolerance, fairness, and equality know they’re backing us into a corner and have prepared. Clearly Law Enforcement prefers Trump’s & Barr’s world view, and we have the highly weaponized militia, & bikers gangs, etc. I don’t think we’d win.
There were so many good articles available with loads of questions to ask. Indeed, the Dems seemed to be ill-prepared. Nadler should not have allowed the Jordan video to be played.
I really think a lot of people will come out of the woodwork and flood the streets if Trump goes full on extra-legal and tries some type of coup. Republican autocrats are wily and well organized, but I'm convinced there are many more of "us" than "them" (Please excuse the terminology). Democrats have a harder time corraling their constituencies, due to the wide range of various interests. But that makes for a far broader base of support. I think it was Will Rogers who said "I don't belong to an organized political party, I'm a Democrat." If Herr Trump, in his derangement, makes a real power grab, I think he will be shut down pretty quick by the mass of people who understand at a gut level the value of Freedom that is the core principle of America. I'll be out there. I'm not quiet.
I applaud your optimism. I personally feel people have gotten too complacent and/or apathetic and it’s a relatively small number who are actively protesting or doing other things to change the direction of where we’re headed.
I live in a blue state, but I work in a large office of about 73 people and I know 10 people who don’t WANT to know what’s going on and most others voted for Trump.
I saw police cars by the railroad on my way home fairly recently. So I searched social media for a clue. Someone reported that protesters planned to meet at the train station.
Maybe today is just a really bad day and I also need to take a break from social media
Was this a committee hearing or a sporting event? I guess we can always count on infantile behavior from the Republicans on this committee. When are they going to grow up and take their jobs seriously?
Yeah, I suppose at least some of their constituents think their Representative is doing what they want. These folks seriously need to retake a civics course, though.
Dear HCR Letter Readers,
Anyone see poor Heather repeatedly sweltering in what she said was 100 degree heat during her video talk today? Some comments suggested a GoFundMe account to get her a fan. Problem is, the beneficiary has to be willing to accept the funds. And having Mainer ancestry, I can attest to the firmly entrenched trait of Yankee stubbornness to support my bottom dollar bet that dear Heather would decline.
However, what if there were a subtle surge in gift subscriptions to HCR Letters from an American? A nice quiet Dyson fan at $300, divided by 60 subscriptions for $5 a month? Or 6 subscriptions for $50 a year? Or some combination thereof? Win-win-win for your gift subscription recipient, for Heather's sustenance, and for our ongoing political illumination!
Dear Heather,
Many readers advocate for your self-care. How about a nice quiet Dyson fan (not an endorsement--just a suggestion for starters) to get you through those rare but suffocatingly hot Maine summer days when you are stuck inside a little room, sweating in your unwavering commitment to a one hour video talk to spread the word for the preservation of American democracy!
Your dedicated readers would be tickled to see proof of purchase, and a fan would certainly help dissipate any heat-related distraction from a cool, clear-headed thinking enterprise!
Suggested with kindest regards!
Nice idea! Though think HCR doesn't use a fan because she is recording these lectures for future viewing and a fan could interfere with sound quality.
A bladeless fan on low and set away from the mic would be worth a try.
As an Ohioan living just south of Jim Jordan's gerrymandered district, i PARTICULARLY appreciate your description of this alleged congressman's tactics and behavior. He embarrasses us every time he opens his mouth. Thank you for your accurate representation!
We have at least one of those despicable “Jim Jordan types” here in Florida, too.
Oh you sure do. Sometimes I think he’s worse! So juvenile!
I was determined to watch the entire hearing and it was very difficult. I wish the Democrats would spend more effort on taking oxygen out of the room as you put it. It felt like the Republicans put energy into preparing while the Democrats just showed up. It was educational to watch but not for the reasons I’d hoped. There is compelling footage of peaceful demonstrators being attacked and federal police dressed like military just in from Afghanistan, and it seems like a huge opportunity untaken that none of it made it into the record of the hearing. Not to mention not pressing Barr on why his police are dressed up in military uniforms that has outraged military leadership.
Not to take issue with you, personally, but every time I see the words “federal police” I question the term in my mind. As I last understood it, America does not and never had a “federal” police force, per se. This goon squad, if I am not mistaken, is made up of individuals pulled from ICE, border patrol, and other legitimate organizations to form a truly “illegitimate” “federal” police force. Some may think I am nit-picking but words DO matter and the more people become comfortable with using the term “federal police” the more likely we will have an unwanted and illegitimate American gestapo. If I am wrong about any of this, I invite (respectful and polite, please) correction to any of the above statements/comments.
Words do matter and I call it like I see it. Gestapo or Schutzstaffel, doing the violent bidding of a fascist leader. They are NOT LEO (Law Enforcement Officers) because they have no training in civilian police procedures and instead are armed like military and attacking unarmed U.S. civilians as if they were enemy combatants.
I agree with you, Karen Smith. We should avoid using the term federal police, as it appears to give legitimacy to Trump’s patchwork assembly of a force consisting of unnamed, unidentifiable, and armed people whose sole purpose is to attack peaceful protesters. It would be great to invent a term for them accurate and pithy enough to enter the public consciousness.
The evening before the hearing I listened to a clip of Glenn Kirschner talking about the questions he would ask Barr if he had the chance. One of them was about these forces that were in Portland. He mentioned a connection to contractors hired for this and would also ask if Betsy DeVos’ brother’s contracting company may have supplied some of them. Later in the afternoon one of my friends mentioned that she had heard the same thing. The question never came up. Does anyone else have info on this?
There was a post in Medium and one in Reddit a few days ago suggesting that Eric Prince’s company had been contracted to provide forces to Portland. At the time I was searching I found nothing written by legitimate journalists supporting that claim.
What I read stated that Prince sold Blackwater to investors. Who are the investors?
Karen I agreee with you. I was trying to find a term that didn’t imply a legitimate force. I’m open to ideas. To me federal police has a negative connotation, unlike NPS police, FBI, DEA.
The NPS folks I have known (several, over the years) tend to refer to NPS law enforcement officers as LEOs, which is why I also am uncomfortable with referring to these forces as LEOs as suggested by Lisa Winfeld elsewhere in this sub-thread. It has been publicly stated (though I cannot at this time access citations) that these forces do not have training in civilian policing which, imho, makes them inappropriate for the role they have been thrust into as they are not trained in de-escalation techniques, to mention just one. I don’t have a good term for them and, personally, when necessary to refer to them at all, I generally call them “goon squads”. Not nice, probably not pc, but based on the language and behavior I have seen them exhibit on video seems appropriate. I would definitely NOT refer to them as LEOs because their behavior is unconstitutional.
Glad I didn’t offend!
I call them LEO’s / Law Enforcement Officers
Still sounds like it could be legitimate. I think of them as the profa (pro-facists)
They’re still hired by Fed gov to enforce laws, however bogus. It’s a generic enough term.
Federal forces is a term I have seen used by several media outlets. It delineates them from legitimate military troops.
I am not sure how Democrats counter and evil force like barr. They are still holding on to civility with people who don't deserve it. There needs to be a new generation of Democrats who will use everything in their power to fight Republicans and not capitulate.
Agreed! There is a reason for the joke about Democrats taking a knife to a gunfight!
I agree Democrats should not sink to the Rep level (Jim Jordan is at the bottom of the ladder). However, the Democrats excell at not being able to get a succinct message out there (listen to Schumer sometime; just flat and complex sentences). They should have had a strong counter message, not just questions with lying answers, at the hearing. Yes, how about a counter video. Where is an articulate NATIONAL VOICE that consistently calls out Trump/Trumpster lies in such a way that the national media report it every day? There needs to be a constant drumbeat---I don't think the Dems understand that. We are NOT dealing with a rational or honest president, and you can say the same of McConnell and the whole bunch of enablers. Reasoned argument will no do the job. Read Greg Palast on RSN on election hijacking. Coming to a precinct near you. Sorry to be in a rant mood this morning, but that's the way it is. Perilous times on all fronts. Peace and Courage.
In HCR’s History & Politics video, I think on April 7, she described the Newt Gingrich tactic of teaching Republican members of Congress a play list of “reasonable” buzz words to use in reference to Republicans and a hyperbolic polarizing list for Democrats. Has anyone ever heard of Democrats brainstorming how to neutralize this tactic? And then systematically implement such an approach?
It sure has not been evident in House hearings. I thought Kamila Harris at least did a good job of keeping control over Barr.
Trump, Barr, Jordan, McConnell, and crew are bullies. We teach kids to de-escalate with humor or walk away, but don’t fight back, do not engage. Do not fight fire with fire.
The Allies placated Hitler for too long and ignored Stalin. But there is a lot to be tried before using physical force.
I am speaking for my husband here, who is following this group closely, but has no computer affinity (so we are a “team” here). He would like to add the following: “Some of the ‘undecideds’ can misunderstand points we make because of Gingrich‘s language manipulation methods. I suggest that we speak of the current government as the ‘Trump Government’ in order to clarify its difference from the legitimate ‘Federal Government’”.
That's a big worry I have. Democrats/liberals are too much into placating Republicans. Fight doesn't mean sinking to their level but one has to identify the enemy and fight to win. When was the last time Republicans tried to placate Democrats?
It’s important to get the DemocratIc message out. You will not be stooping to the Trumpian level if you speak simply and clearly and repeatedly. This will get the message out.
I don't think guns are the way to go. We do need to stop fighting evil with spinelessness. Nancy Pelosi and AOC are going in the right direction. The thousands of protesters in Portland, for all that they are providing footage for barr's claims of civil unrest, are also making it impossible for trump and barr to make anyone believe that their tactics actually produce any kind of law or order. They also give the lie to trump/barr's claims of who they are attacking, for anyone with open eyes to see. For myself, mostly home these days due to covid and unemployment, I am doing what I can to get out the vote via letters.
There are other viewpoints. An armed black militia that has been showing up. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Not_Fucking_Around_Coalition
Editing would be nice. That should read, "An armed black militia has been showing up."
So we stoop to their level and become like the actors we loathe? I think not.
I totally understand your sentiment as well, and have long said as much. However, these are challenging and vexing times right now. When you have opponents who do not possess shreds of ethics or morality, taking a higher moral ground isn't going to resonate at all with them, though it may make you feel better. Bullies ONLY know bullying. One HAS to learn how to stick up for oneself. As we all know, standing up to bullies, more often not, will make them stand down.
I recount something I did recently: we occasionally receive GOP fundraising robocalls on our land line. My 97-year-old mom is a life-long Republican (she only voted for a Democrat one time: Roosevelt in '44), as was my late dad. She had voted for Bush 2, but didn't vote subsequently because of the direction the GOP was going. She now despises Trump more than I do. We got a call from a particularly insistent campaign worker which I had answered. When the person would not listen at all to anything I was saying, I finally very loudly told her what she and her candidate could do to themselves. My mom heard the exchange, and after I slammed the phone down, said, "well that was a little harsh...", to which I responded, "...'harsh' is the only thing these people understand."
Democrats over the past 3 years have often seemed more RE-active than PRO-active. IMO, and being "morally superior" has gotten us nowhere. No, we don't have to resort to a Jim Jordan level of hyperbole, but we have to stand up for what's right, and sadly that might mean an occasional "getting down in the mud" with your opponents and giving them back--with interest--what they dish out to you. That may be, again, sadly, the only way to score any cred with them. I don't like it. None of us does. But, again, these are times unlike any we've seen in the recent history of this country, at least in my lifetime of 66 years. Now more than ever, we cannot seem to be complacent.
It’s not about resonating with the bullies to persuade them, but to step back and take action to neutralize their power.
Peri, why do you see it as a binary, carry on with the same or stoop to their level? Look to FDR’s use of artists to generate the groundswell support that enabled him to roll out the New Deal as an example.
Communicating intelligently is not “stooping to their level”. What causes you to conclude that the only way to people’s heartstrings is Jim Jordanism? Would you have told Kennedy not to stoop to TV or FDR radio?
I understand your sentiment. But what would you propose? You cannot win over republicans with kindness. Barr is a repeat. He was quite instrumental in letting some people get away with Iran contra. Now he is back orchestrating teargassing of peaceful protesters and lying about it.
I acquiesce. You're right that we don't need to stoop to Jim jordanism type of garbage, but the only way to stop a bully is to stand up to them? Where has that gotten us with tRump? I don't know what will work.
The president is too powerful especially because the republican senate has been giving him a pass from day 1. So democrats haven't really been able to stand up to trumps's bullying. And given the built in advantage republicans have in the Senate and the electoral college(even if they lose in 2020) I don't see democrats being able to do anything about republicanism anytime soon. In real life not standing up to a bully makes the bullying worse. So it would be nice to see fighting spirit from democrats and that's not going to happen with the old guard who were beaten in submission by 8 years of ray-gun.
One thing we can do is refuse to let Trump take our eyes off the ball. And the ball is the people we need to reach to swing the vote in November.
Time indeed for everyone to stand up and be counted in the defense of the people, the Constitution and the Declaration of Independence...and to act to ensure the freedoms that they guarantee and the future the country.
Amen!
“umbrella man” was caught on video smashing windows near the site of Floyd’s murder, starting a wave of fires and looting. He is allegedly a 32-year-old member of the Hell’s Angels motorcycle gang.
Didn’t President Trump say the bikers were with him...Yes here it is March 2019. https://www.cnn.com/videos/politics/2019/03/14/trump-breitbart-interview-tough-supporters-cortes-boykin-burnett-ebof-vpx.cnn
Yes, Trump is proud to have criminals support him. It bolsters his mob boss persona.
Not all bikers are criminals. Just sayin’.
Not to be contentious... I did not use the term biker in my comment, however, since you've brought it up, when did Hell's Angels become a respected, law abiding biker club?
You are correct. And both you and I know which bikers Trump is proud to have supporting him. Just like we know which "good people" he is referring to when he talks about the "good people" who carry tiki torches and chant"Jews will not replace us."
I took no offense at the use of biker. And I don't think the Hell's Angels have ever been a respected, law abiding biker club. To be honest I know very little about biker clubs and don't desire to belong to one. I was just suggesting that we not stereotype. I'm a boater, and I have a Harley. We've all seen the boat parades across the country for Trump, and biker rallies as well. But there are many of us in those communities that are not flying Trump flags or wearing Trump patches (I don't wear patches at all). I'm saddened by the division Trump has/is causing. We find ourselves not socializing with many friends because of the tension caused by differing political views. I long for the political debates/discussions of the past, between friends of differing views.
I understand completely. I am reluctant to have conversations with friends and family members who are Trump supporters because their support has led them down some very hateful paths.
Trump, in 2019 specifically cited Bikers for Trump. I don’t think anyone believes most boaters and motorcycle owners are Trump supporters. I think, however, we do need to acknowledge that his call out of specific groups in the context of violence is a very real and dangerous dog whistle. Here is the quote from the Brietbart article. It is chilling:
"I can tell you I have the support of the police, the support of the military, the support of the Bikers for Trump - I have the tough people, but they don't play it tough - until they go to a certain point, and then it would be very bad, very bad," Trump said.
My apologies, Daria Wilbur, you most definitely did NOT use the term bikers in your reply, I made the association. On my side, I didn’t mean to imply the Hell’s Angels were a respectable, law abiding club. I’ve known a lot of bikers through the years, none of which I could imagine supporting him. I guess we all have to be careful with language and generalization, even here in a community of like-minded folks. I never intend to offend and hope I didn’t.
No worries! I was in full tilt yesterday. My brain is reeling.
Mine, too!
You are correct. And not all bikers support Trump. Not all boaters support Trump. And not all Conservatives support Trump.
Please see my above reply to Karen Smith.
Sorry I didn’t know their preferred gang nsmed and generalized. Most bicyclists are law abiding and some motorized bicycle gangs are “American Law” abiding too.
Hi Lisa, Trump is not referring to bicycle "gangs" but motorcycle gangs, which tend to be violent and criminal as opposed to motorcycle clubs which tend to be groups of incredibly generous men and women who are very active in their communities.
My point is, we know agitators are being used in the cities like Portland where otherwise peaceful protestors are holding legitimate rallies. We now know that one such agitator is this particular Hell’s Angels biker. We know in general Trump claims “bikers” as “his people”. I am suggesting that Trump supporters are using peaceful protesting events to agitate Federal Troops Trump has sent in to put down the agitators, whom Trump says are protestors and likens them to anarchists, while all along they are “his people”.
A couple years ago I attended a Dorothea Lange exhibit at the Oakland Art Museum. I expected to see the famous photos but the real treasure was the education I got in FDR’s recognition that his New Deal would fail unless he could communicate it to the common voter. His use of art, especially photography, was a central and strategic part of doing that. Today’s Democrats have forgotten that, outside of a few exceptions like AOC.
AOC had a great illustrated video she narrated from the perspective of 20 years in the future, looking back at the success of the Green New Deal. I found it very moving and inspiring. I hoped it would make a big splash and be much talked about. Unfortunately, I didn't hear much about it. I thought it was great, and agree that arts should be used as an avenue to expand messages to the public at large.
I couldn't watch the "show" yesterday. bArr has done nothing but lie since the hearings to approve his nomination. I think he should be disbarred for his lying and behavior as the "nations lawyer." It continues to amaze me that there are daily violations of our constitutional rights perpetrated by the tRump goon squad. I just hope we can hold things together long enough to sweep the swamp in Nov. And, that bArr says he will leave office if tRump is not re-elected is a joke, because he'll be replaced immediately. And then, hopefully, will find himself in jail!
Reading through these comments makes me think I watched a different hearing - did no one see Representative Pramila Jayapal's (D-WA) calling-out of Barr? While I agree that the Democrats need a unified message and often come with the knife to the gunfight, Jayapal makes me proud, always, to the one.
In addition, the idea that we are "stooping" to the level of the Republicans when combating their blatantly racist, systematic and unflinching bulldozing through what we thought was a near iron-clad democracy is nothing short of dangerous in and of itself. The idea that we are of higher moral character and must practice meeting people half-way is an invalid construct. One does not meet murderers and racists "half-way." These are perilous times and while we debate nuances, people, mostly Black people, are being ravaged by Covid-19; they and POC, Indigenous people, and all other marginalized folks are suffering from the unending ravages wrought by systemic oppression. Those who are not fighting back against the present-day architects like Barr, Cruz, Jordan, and McConnell (the list goes on) are in essence complicit.
Unified and loud is what we need to be - defunding of the police, protesting, calling on our representatives at all levels of government - and championing those who are willing to literally put their lives on the line (AOC being one of them).
As Rep. Jayapal so adeptly pointed out, white supremacists not only stormed the state capitol in Michigan but also threatened to behead the governor with NO consequence, yet those who are protesting in cities like Portland, Minneapolis, NYC, Seattle in support of Black Lives Matter are being met by federally sponsored thugs in rented mini vans who are beating, pepper spraying, shooting with rubber bullets and grabbing protesters off the street. We're, nor Congress, aren't even certain as to where these people are coming from - and they are being sent in by the guy who holds the highest position in law enforcement. Does that not laser focus the issue more clearly?
Barr, Trump, and all the rest of his cronies are laying concrete plans on how to stay in power by any means necessary, including ignoring the results of the upcoming election. They are making that very, very clear. The quick creation of a militia in order to squelch the "anarchists and mayhem" both legitimizes and normalizes the existence of this force that answers to them (and not the US Military) and only a few months prior to November's looming election. They are worried, very, that it's not going to go their way. The real question is not whether Democrats are playing nice or stooping, but how we are going to usher this administration out of the White House without lighting the match next to the powder keg that is the logical next step - dictatorship.
After watching the PBS Frontline piece, "United States of Conspiracy", aired last night, I wonder how Barr will finesse his support of Roger Stone? Anyone who's paid attention to politics since Nixon, of course, is familiar with just how legitimate Stone is. But what really rattled my cage was seeing just how bat-*hit crazy Alex Jones is. Of course, I knew he was a conspiracy theorist to the max, and had been sued by one of the Sandy Hook dads (rightly so), and perpetuated the Pizzagate BS, but he's way crazier than I realized. And is followers, many of whom are probably my neighbors, are even more rabid, apparently, if that's possible. And around here, they are armed to the teeth. I hear automatic weapons fire every weekend 360 degrees around my rural home. (I often wonder how these folks can afford to blow through so much ammo every weekend; obviously, they are re-loaders.)
Watching clips of Barr's testimony (like Pam Peterson, I couldn't watch the whole thing - my gag reflex isn't that strong), I am more convinced than ever that should Trump lose, he not only won't go peacefully, but his base won't let him. They will, quite literally, defend him to the death. My question is, "Whose?"
I also watched part of the hearing. While I agree that Barr was not only evasive, but also contradicted parts of his confirmation testimony, I was upset that Rep. Pramila Jayapal did not give him the opportunity to answer some of her accusations. She asked a question and then interrupted him with another question before he got more than ten words out. I think she was more keen to make her points in her allotted time than to hear his responses, which was a shame.
As for Jim Jordan, I find the man despicable and wonder how his constituency can put up with a representative so bombastic and unpleasant.
Unfortunately and in general these hearings tend to be soap boxes for members from both sides of the aisle to take their 5 minutes and rant, lecture, whatever. Don't get me wrong, I agree with every word out of Jayapal's mouth but this was supposed to be a hearing not an hours long performance art piece. (How Jim Jordan is even in office is beyond me.)
I think we all would have liked the Dems to ask more follow-up questions and not let him—again—get away with obfuscation. Yes, the best part of the hearing was Rep. Pramila Jayapal. The worst, again, was Jim Jordan's bombast.
Posted this as a "reply" a minute ago, but decided to repost on the main thread. Hope this is ok. (Thanks for your calm voice, Heather)
I agree Democrats should not sink to the Rep level (Jim Jordan is at the bottom of the ladder). However, the Democrats excell at not being able to get a succinct message out there (listen to Schumer sometime; just flat and complex sentences). They should have had a strong counter message, not just questions with lying answers, at the hearing. Yes, how about a counter video. Where is an articulate NATIONAL VOICE that consistently calls out Trump/Trumpster lies in such a way that the national media report it every day? There needs to be a constant drumbeat---I don't think the Dems understand that. We are NOT dealing with a rational or honest president, and you can say the same of McConnell and the whole bunch of enablers. Reasoned argument will no do the job. Read Greg Palast on RSN on election hijacking. Coming to a precinct near you. Sorry to be in a rant mood this morning, but that's the way it is. Perilous times on all fronts. Peace and Courage
The Lincoln Project is doing a good job at that. The Democrats could learn from them.
I heartily agree!! Would that the Democrats had some folks like that doing videos. Actually the Lincoln Project may "reach" some people who would never pay attention to a Dem ad. But then the opposition is composed, in part, of fervent "true believers," and it takes a real conversion experience to bring someone like that over.
Yes, I know people personally who identify strongly with Trump("we were impeached") or think whatever he does must have a positive explanation. He'd have to become a totally different person to lose followers like that.
Perhaps we (Dems) can’t quite adjust to the fourth-grade reading level of Trump and his enablers.
My sister lives in Portland where she said the protesting groups had dropped significantly in numbers until the DHS troops arrived. What she has been surprised about (she moved from Arizona) is the number of older Americans that have taken up standing on street corners there with Black Lives Matter signs. The sheer diversity of current protestors is pretty amazing. But what is disheartening is my feeling that things are being falsely stirred up by white supremacists like the man with the umbrella and hammer in Minnesota. Troops were sent in for graffiti and a political video it seems. The only cure it seems is to overwhelmingly vote Trump out.
Your sister is correct: the number of trouble-making protesters had waned significantly until Trump got involved, which triggered a significant response from a diverse group of peaceful protesters. But for months the "bad guys" have set numerous fires, thrown all kinds of dangerous things, and so on. They have no clear goal other than chaos and destruction. Small in number, they've managed to play right into Trump's false law-and-order narrative.
I hate to say this, but I can’t watch these official government hearings anymore. Republicans trounced Democrats again. I don’t know how they do it. We need more strong, smart, people like AOC, Katie Porter, etc.
I honestly think we’re going to end up having to exact change by force, which is a problem, because those who don’t want tolerance, fairness, and equality know they’re backing us into a corner and have prepared. Clearly Law Enforcement prefers Trump’s & Barr’s world view, and we have the highly weaponized militia, & bikers gangs, etc. I don’t think we’d win.
There were so many good articles available with loads of questions to ask. Indeed, the Dems seemed to be ill-prepared. Nadler should not have allowed the Jordan video to be played.
It violated procedure of the hearing. Poor control by the chair. https://www.justsecurity.org/63799/what-congress-should-ask-bill-barr-when-he-testifies/
HCR talked about that in yesterday’s talk and why Nadler really had no choice.
I always miss them bc I have to work.
I really think a lot of people will come out of the woodwork and flood the streets if Trump goes full on extra-legal and tries some type of coup. Republican autocrats are wily and well organized, but I'm convinced there are many more of "us" than "them" (Please excuse the terminology). Democrats have a harder time corraling their constituencies, due to the wide range of various interests. But that makes for a far broader base of support. I think it was Will Rogers who said "I don't belong to an organized political party, I'm a Democrat." If Herr Trump, in his derangement, makes a real power grab, I think he will be shut down pretty quick by the mass of people who understand at a gut level the value of Freedom that is the core principle of America. I'll be out there. I'm not quiet.
I applaud your optimism. I personally feel people have gotten too complacent and/or apathetic and it’s a relatively small number who are actively protesting or doing other things to change the direction of where we’re headed.
I live in a blue state, but I work in a large office of about 73 people and I know 10 people who don’t WANT to know what’s going on and most others voted for Trump.
I saw police cars by the railroad on my way home fairly recently. So I searched social media for a clue. Someone reported that protesters planned to meet at the train station.
Maybe today is just a really bad day and I also need to take a break from social media
"Committee Republicans cheered Barr on."
Was this a committee hearing or a sporting event? I guess we can always count on infantile behavior from the Republicans on this committee. When are they going to grow up and take their jobs seriously?
Sadly, I think they are deadly serious about what they are doing, whether it is what WE perceive as being their job or not.
I think some of them are serious and believe all the rubbish that comes out of their mouths.
Yeah, I suppose at least some of their constituents think their Representative is doing what they want. These folks seriously need to retake a civics course, though.