Just so people "get it" - Nitwityahoo's far right fundamentalist fascist coalition is the equivalent of having Trump back in office. Putting former convicted settler terrorist Itamir Ben Gvir in as Interior Minister is like Trump making Enrique Tarrio of the Proud Boys the Secretary of Homeland Security.
Just so people "get it" - Nitwityahoo's far right fundamentalist fascist coalition is the equivalent of having Trump back in office. Putting former convicted settler terrorist Itamir Ben Gvir in as Interior Minister is like Trump making Enrique Tarrio of the Proud Boys the Secretary of Homeland Security.
Fundamentalists, whether masquerading as "christian," "jewish," "muslim," or "hindu" are all fascist scumbags who are about as "religious" as a rock.
Aggressive "fundamentalists" worship their own egos, positing that God rubber stamps whatever aggressive thing they have the urge to do; from attempting to control what couples do in bed (or what women do just about any time) to "holy" crusades against other peoples and nations.
Discussing it among ourselves is well and good, but we all need to write to President Biden, our senators and our representatives recommending that the US “back away from support of Israel as our values are no longer shared.” Then we need to get out the vote for the 2024 presidential election to defeat the right wing at home.
Ruth, it looks like more likely you should be armed and be prepared to fight on the street or the other side will maintain their power. Sad to say that is where we are today. Good luck to you and God help us.
The problem is that America is sliding perilously close to becoming an authoritarian, christofascist country unless we get out the blue vote in November 2024.
Actually, aren't the values of the Donny from Queens and MAGA-wingers of the GNoP, of Benny from Philly and his 'We are Right No Matter What You Say' group, and of Putin and his backers quite shared.?
However, in the US, approximately 65% do share the most of the same values.
Israel is not just Netanyahu and his coalition. We can easily see that by the protests. We must find a way to bathe the baby and only throw away the bathwater. We must find a way to help Israel accept the ideas of Palestinians and Palestinians accept the ideas of Israel. Both exhibit the fears of cornered animals. We should encourage a Constitutional Convention. I believe that the people of this region new and ancient must participate but I also believe that this is their future to choose. Perhaps we could offer a safe venue. A moderator who's only role is to strip the hurt and see the kernel of thought and echo it back.
Virginia Witmer, calling all fundamentalists "fascist scumbags" isn't standing up for anyone. If you can't see that as hateful, then perhaps you are so consumed by hate that you are blind to it in others.
Ok, but in all seriousness, maybe the US should offer some of those secular and center-left Jewish Israelis a home here, while reducing or withdrawing financial and other support from this rapidly-becoming-fascist state.
And HOW can Israel have NO CONSTITUTION? What have I missed?
The Declaration of State includes an entire paragraph about creating a constitution. Because six countries declared war on Israel immediately after the State was announced, there was no time to create, debate, and adopt a constitution. In the intervening 75 years, the Supreme Court has established “Basic Laws” which codify some of what we would consider part of a constituent, guaranteeing basic rights and expectations. This is part of why the judicial “reforms” are so concerning .There is currently a conversation happening in Israel academic and public policy circles to call for a constitutional convention. It may be one way out of the current situation, although I don’t see the current ruling coalition being swift to adopt any recommendations.
Thanks for the explanation. And just to point out that Netanyahu's or his minions' use of the word "reforms" to describe what Netanyahu is trying to do is to debase the word entirely.
David, I thought that the thousands of Israeli protesters had Netanyahu's attention and he might back off, but obviously that was not the case. He has never acted as though he appreciated our financial and moral support for Israel, and has always been sorely lacking morally, so we should cease rewarding him for his bad behavior. We could use the billions to right our own ship.
Being under indictment for fraud and corruption, Netanyahu can't back down. He needs to change the court so that the charges against him will disappear. Weakening the judicial system is frequently one of the first steps in the march to fascism.
Betsy, I totally understand why Netanyahu wants to weaken the courts, and it echoes TFG's motivation. Besides both of them aspiring to be fascists and drive our countries rightward, to authoritarianism, they want to be certain that they have a buffer for their criminal behavior - birds of a feather, so to speak. It's no wonder that the two of them were so cozy, despite TFG's antisemitism. He got a pass on that, as long as he was more disdainful of the Palestinians. All of this makes a future second term for the Orange Menace more frightening, with the possibility of our government mimicking Russia, China, much of South America, and Hungary and many others in Europe.
We must figure out a way to give leaders a timeout until their crimes are adjudicated. It is possible that the charges are not true, the presumption of innocence is critical to a democracy. But allowing someone accused to exert power to protect themselves is a fatal wound. If a leader is accused, can we focus judicial review to be started pending investigation. Then support the investigation with profound civil cooperation. I'm babbling now. You guys know what I'm trying to say. Help me flesh it out. How do we prevent the investigation from going off track from facts to fiction? How do we prevent judicial review from becoming a kangaroo court? How do we prevent the law from becoming unjust?
Absolutely, Burton. That's what TFG is hoping for. Certainly, his cohorts in the legislature can mostly be counted on, and if he appeals a conviction, he's hoping for a similar reaction from SCOTUS. Depending on the Democrats' results in the '24 election, SCOTUS might be wary of angering the Democrats, since it's possible that their joyride could hit some bumps.
The late lesbian/feminist theologian Mary Daly wrote that patriarchy was the world's religion and the various religions its denominations. That made sense to me when I first read it, and it makes sense to me now, noting the similarity of the "religious" fundamentalists despite their supposedly glaring doctrinal differences.
I do wonder about Netanyahu et al.'s risking the support of the Israeli military. Yes, Syria has imploded, and (thanks to Bush et al.) Iraq is not the external threat it once was, but the Israeli military has always been about more than national security: in important ways it also holds the nation together because nearly everybody has served in it.
Have you read historian Lynn White Jr.'s 1967 prescient "Science" piece "The Historical Roots of our Ecological Crisis"? In it, he links the two-headed monster of monotheism with men's 2000 year-old commodification of once abundant natural resources. While he only implies that both patriarchy and what we now call the Climate Crisis needed monotheism to flourish, it seems obvious that worshiping a single sky daddy, and rallying around our all-powerful earth daddies go hand in hand.
From White's 1967 piece:
"In Antiquity every tree, every spring, every stream, every hill had its own genius loci, its guardian spirit. These spirits were accessible to men, but were very unlike men; centaurs, fauns, and mermaids show their ambivalence. Before one cut a tree, mined a mountain, or dammed a brook, it was important to placate the spirit in charge of that particular situation, and to keep it placated. By destroying pagan animism,
Christianity made it possible to exploit nature in a mood of indifference to the feelings of natural objects."
No -- will check it out -- but in my 20s and 30s I was reading (in addition to Mary Daly) stuff like Susan Griffin's WOMAN AND NATURE, Merlin Stone's WHEN GOD WAS A WOMAN, Andrée Collard's THE RAPE OF THE WILD, etc., etc., so the connection between patriarchal religion and violence against women and the natural world has been embedded in my psyche for a long time.
The fundiescum get exemptions for being in "rabbi school" - if they serve, they serve in an all-fundie unit where they can practice all their bigotry and ignorance.
Which goes long with the "paganism." We need to find another word to describe the old religions - "pagan" was just Latin for "peasant." Which gives you an idea of the overweening sense of entitlement the Xtians hd.
Well, "pagan" also meant, more or less, country person, which might suggest that city people were awfully full of themselves -- but it might also suggest that pagan traditions were generally linked to the natural world. The Christians had to co-opt those traditions to gain serious traction with the common folk.
The word "cretin," btw, derives from "Christian," so don't tell me etymology doesn't have a sense of humor.
You can see all kinds of pagan traditions Christianity appropriated. Most prominently Christmas. I mean, come on - the story is the Romans took a census and everyone had to return to their hometown, and they did it in the dead of winter? Ha! Christmas is the Roman mid-winter holiday Saturnalia, stolen. I doubt there is anything original in the religion.
Also, the mythological tale of the creation of Israel boggles the mind - modern archeology has found lots and lots of records from the rein of Ramses III, likely the Pharoah at the time of the Exodus. There is no mention in there of the plagues, which would be amazing enough to at least get a sentence or two - at least the one about the eldest male child of every family dying in one night. Also nothing in the historical record anywhere of an entire ethnic group being held as a slave class. And yet the modern history of the Middle East is the product of that myth that never happened.
It's not just Christmas (which is still referred to as Yule, one of its old names). The major Christian holidays map very closely to the solstices, equinoxes, and cross-quarter days (which fall midway between the solstices and equinoxes).
The modern history of the Middle East does owe a fair amount to that myth, but don't discount good ol' European imperialism, especially the British but also the French. Also the growing awareness in the early 20th century that there was a helluva lot of oil in the Persian Gulf region. The rise of Hitler and the Holocaust pretty much made it a done deal, but the foundation had been laid before then. (In 1969, I was a finalist in a high school speaking competition. My topic? The Sykes-Picot agreement of 1916. The lesson? If you want to get to the finals, pick a topic that no one else knows anything about. ;-) )
Yes, the secret Sikes-Picot Treaty of 1916, dividing up the remains of the Ottoman Empire between Britain and France, taking no notice of the actual facts on the ground while drawing lines on a map, is the political cornerstone of Every Bad Thing in the Middle East today.
Add the Balfour Declaration of 1917 and you've pretty much nailed it. The text: "His Majesty's Government view with favour the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people, and will use their best endeavours to facilitate the achievement of this object, it being clearly understood that nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine, or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country."
Even as a high school student I was struck by the use of the passive voice: "it being clearly understood" and "nothing shall be done." (Clearly I was an editor in the making!)
I was a teenage Arabist, and I haven't forgotten all of it. Like when Kim Philby's defection to the USSR became public, I was all "You mean he was St. John Philby's son??"
If you can't beat them, throw a better party! The holidays are an amusing power struggle. Those pagan habits live with us today. Wise women quietly live on, passing their skills to each new generation. Enjoy your herbal tea!
Agree totally, TC. I have no use for religious fundamentalists no matter what religion they follow. They are responsible for the bad rep that all religions have.
The problem is that the three "great religions" in the world are steeped in patriarchy and tragically, in misogyny. It is only partially a fundamentalist issue. Religions deserve a bad rep - they deny science, and let's face it, believing in an invisible being who, like Santa Claus, punishes you for being bad and rewards you with heaven after you die if you behave yourself, is pretty damn ridiculous.
I would say it is more than three. Most societies are patriarchal. It would save us a lot of problems if they were matriarchal. After all, everyone knows who mom is and we wouldn't have to keep women under lock and key to make sure that so that we know who the father is. I would say that fundamentalism makes the problems much worse.
Last year I spent my summer reading about misogyny, and its roots go back to before the time of Herodotus. One theory says it's because of the fear of women's ability to have babies, but men's sexual desire seems to have played a greater role. From fear comes hatred, and from fear and hatred comes the need to control. Women's sexuality also plays a part, and the double standard that makes men "studs" and women "whores," "sluts," etc. All 3 Abrahamic faiths teach that women must be controlled lest they corrupt the virtues of men. This is why calling a woman a whore is to insult all women.
I would say men's sexual desire is what it is all about....blame women for male lust. That's why in some cultures they have to cover up completely. In so-called democratic Athens, women were never considered adults and had to be under the control of some man. That's why men did the shopping and women were kept mostly confined to the house unseen. In autocratic Sparta, women actually had more freedom because they had to run the estates because males were in the barracks from seven on. Frankly, the people who ran the religious places knew that women would keep men from thinking about God. So, go to the desert and sit on the pillar and what do you think those guys were actually thinking about. Btw, have you read God, An Anatomy and if so, how did you find it.
Our closest primate relatives are chimps (patriarchal) and bonobos(matriarchal). Part of it has been controlling who has access to a woman because in most societies, land and estate has passed through men. So a male would want to make sure his sons were his and not some stray male. This is probably only part of the story.
I've been seeking out your comments. I don't find your comments beyond the pale. This subset of comments find you in good company. Please don't leave us. Take a break. Listen to the breeze. Take a deep breath and dive back in. Telling us what you think is important for us. Not because you're superior or always right but because the earth is small and we need everyone to succeed. Peace
Thank you very, very much for your kind comment. I paid for another month :) I don't mind criticism but it hurts when people butt in to "support" someone who disagrees with me, and it just gets mean. Last time one of the commenters told others to block me. There were five or six women defending a male commenter who used a famous quote to call MTG a "whore." I absolutely do not tolerate that; it's as vile as calling a Black person the "N word." I felt very disappointed that these commenters thought it was funny. We can hate MTG but we don't use the word "whore" to denigrate anyone. Sexuality-based insults against women have plagued us since biblical times.
Right (only part of the story). Our hunter-gatherer ancestors were largely polyamorous, and more like bonobos than chimps. That's why males have such effin crazy levels of libido. Here's an example of the level of libido:
In 11th grade, I loved my English teacher, a middle aged woman who had a good understanding of teenaged boys, and I loved the class she taught. But on this particular spring day, my libido was making it impossible for me to pay attention, much as I tried. It was driving me crazy. So at the end of the class I did something I'd never done before. Heretofore, I'd restricted doing "homework," the word for an activity that one vastly prefers to do with someone of the gender one is attracted to, when when has to do it by oneself, to my room or the bathroom at home. But now I made a beeline for the bathroom at school, hoping against hope that there'd be noone else there. There wasn't, at first, but then there was, and I stopped what I was doing and froze until they left. Then I resumed.
The reason polyamory gave rise to this level of libido is that instead of males competing with one-another for females, the competition was happening at the level of the sperm. A guy had to produce a hell of a lot of sperm, and had to keep it coming if he was to have offspring in the next generation. And the theory is that the mushroom cap of the penis evolved to pull the previous guy's sperm out of the vaginal tract. Human penises and testicles are among the very biggest in the primates. Truly monogamous male primates have tiny little penises and do it once a year. See: Sex at Dawn, by Christopher Ryan and Cacilda Jetha.
I have great sympathy for men in that regard. Women can hide it all away once they mature. Men must sing little songs or focus on something else. Please know that women love men and enjoy all your talents. But as the transgender conversation brings up and makes us cringe, men can attack, have attacked to satisfy this biological imperative. That behavior has caused male family members to be protective. It has also caused them to attack their own. Until men grapple and control this part of their biological imperative, women will be on guard.
Ms.Dufour, I wasn't looking for sympathy, I was simply stating facts. I'm also a couple of decades beyond the times when desire could drive me crazy. I do blame the men who attack, or otherwise harass women for putting them on guard--which is a perfectly reasonable reaction. I do not blame the women for that. I have a sister, an adult niece, a niece in-law, and some close female cousins, and multiple close friends who are women, and their comfort and security is very important to me.
I tell my own story, and recount the science from the book because I think it's useful to know this stuff, and because I have a powerful intellectual interest in sex. Partly because of that, I was also a research subject in this study, which involved a lot of self stimulation while in an MRI, including to big O (very difficult in MRI): https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S1743609519318661
I think men have always been allowed to express their sexuality and take pride in it, unlike women. Women, from the time of the Bible, were made responsible for men's sexual behavior, which includes rape and incest. And the wealthier the man, the less they were held responsible. Look at Trump; Lucian Truscott IV recently wrote a great piece about Trump as Rapist. You can find it here on substack. It was also published 2 days ago in Salon.com.
Read, actually I listened to it, twice, Graeber and Wengrow's "The Dawn of Everything." It successfully vexes the notion that widespread patriarchy is any older than 3,000-ish years old, in the context of a 190,000 year-long human history.
I cannot recommend the audio version enough. Your library almost certainly has it via the CloudLibrary.
I have it in my library and I have read it. What we have now falls within the 3 to 5 thousand range or so. I haven't decided what I think of the book yet. We are talking in this thread about the three monotheistic religions and I would include India and China among others civilizations as patriarchal. Most societies in the historical era are patriarchal. Some African societies are matriarchal and I think if I am remembering the book you mention correctly that some Native American societies are as well. It makes sense because you always know who the mother is. As soon as societies are patriarchal, then control of women is necessary if land and estate passes through males. You don't want you patrimony going to someone else's blood.
I read somewhere not long ago that evangelicals, or some of them at least, actually believe that there is a battle, invisible and (I suppose) otherwise undetectable by us mortals (but then, how do THEY know?) literally being raged right now, on some other plane of existence, between God and its angels and Satan and its demons. How can one have an intelligent conversation with someone with such a diseased imagining? I can't remember where I read it, so can't provide a citation, and I really don't want to get into the weeds of evangelicism to search it out, because EW. I suppose I have to acknowledge that in an infinite Universe there COULD be a god, there COULD be a satan, there COULD be angels, demons, and other dimensions on which battles could be fought (I love science fiction and fantasy), but REALLY. And if I've misunderstood their belief and have misstated it, I apologize to the evangelical community.
I think I need to amend this to read that I'd heard this on a podcast, not read it somewhere. If I can find a citatation, I'll post it.
"Putting former convicted settler terrorist Itamir Ben Gvir in as Interior Minister is like Trump making Enrique Tarrio of the Proud Boys the Secretary of Homeland Security."
That's EXACTLY what was done in Ukraine, with the Neo-Nazi political kingpin Arsen Avakov elevated to Interior Minister (in charge of the police) after his right-wing fascist thugs put the Maiden Revolution over the top, overthrowing Ukraine's Russia-friendly government.
Think it through... I'll give another example of transparent spin. Think of an evangelical true-believer, who doesn't know how to rebut your argument, so he goes to his minister, who has just the prepackaged double-speak that the True Believer needs to reaffirm his commitment without thinking for himself.
On another note, regarding how the situation in Ukraine evolved, you could check my reply to Paula Dufour:
Perhaps the question of whether it matters is worth careful thought.
I will share my point of view, which I suspect might be in need of refining, and you and others can share your thoughts.
Avakov's rise to power facilitated the emergence in Ukraine of a culture of open bigotry, much more extreme that than associated with Trump here in the USA. As "The Nation" reported in 2019:
"Five years ago, Ukraine’s Maidan uprising ousted President Viktor Yanukovych, to the cheers and support of the West. Politicians and analysts in the United States and Europe not only celebrated the uprising as a triumph of democracy, but denied reports of Maidan’s ultranationalism, smearing those who warned about the dark side of the uprising as Moscow puppets and useful idiots. Freedom was on the march in Ukraine.
"Today, increasing reports of far-right violence, ultranationalism, and erosion of basic freedoms are giving the lie to the West’s initial euphoria. There are neo-Nazi pogroms against the Roma, rampant attacks on feminists and LGBT groups, book bans, and state-sponsored glorification of Nazi collaborators.
"These stories of Ukraine’s dark nationalism aren’t coming out of Moscow; they’re being filed by Western media, including US-funded Radio Free Europe (RFE); Jewish organizations such as the World Jewish Congress and the Simon Wiesenthal Center; and watchdogs like Amnesty International, Human Rights Watch, and Freedom House, which issued a joint report warning that Kiev is losing the monopoly on the use of force in the country as far-right gangs operate with impunity.
"Five years after Maidan, the beacon of democracy is looking more like a torchlight march."
I will suggest that this horror could only have happened if outside forces were manipulating Ukraine in ways that were not supported by the majority of the Ukrainian people. I will further suggest that Zelensky is part of the problem and that Avakov is no longer necessary. See, for example:
"How One Ukrainian Billionaire Funded Hunter Biden, President Volodymyr Zelensky, And Neo-Nazi Azov Battalion"
My assessment is that the neo-Nazis have been tolerated by the NATO powers, led by the United States, because they provide internal support for the external imperative to transmogrify Ukraine into a zombie soldier bleeding itself to death to weaken Russia. The genocidal International Monetary Fund, back in 2014, made the new Ukrainian regime promise, as part of a loan agreement, to re-conquer the breakaway Donbass republics, because their heavy industry was an important source of revenue to service the debt. Zelensky, before Avakov resigned, publicly pledged to honor all of Ukraine's commitments to the International Monetary Fund: Ukraine was already on the march toward re-igniting the civil war in the Donbass, which meant tearing to shreds the battered Minsk Agreements, which is exactly what Zelensky did in February 2022, precipitating the Russian invasion.
Once again, that is my assessment. I am willing to talk it through and explain how I come to the conclusions that I present above.
I know it is difficult to side with people who may not be truly aligned with one's values, but in war, if you're not trying to kill me you are my ally. Zelensky's communications skills are serving the greater good for Ukraine. When the war is over judgments can be made about who was truly working for the Ukrainian people. During World War II many who were less desirable for their behavior prior to the war and even during the war helped to create the outcome America fought for. Whores, criminals, dilettantes, dabblers, and political opponents who were previously repugnant became allies in the face of an all-consuming war. When the dust has settled, Nuremberg will rise again to arrive at justice and the Marshal Plan will come back to rebuild what was destroyed. Now is not the time to fight about Ukrainian politics. Let's discuss the Ukrainian government once Russia withdraws. This conflict is about sovereignty and territorial integrity for the rest of the world, not the politics of Ukraine. We failed Ukraine in 2014. We stand with Ukraine now so that we don't have to fight for our sovereignty and territorial integrity against another sovereign who has an eye on our land and resources tomorrow. I'll be ready to listen when Russia withdraws.
I respectfully but strongly disagree. Zelensky, in my view, is a puppet.
NATO and the genocidal IMF are flip sides of the same coin, prodding Zelensky to bleed Ukraine to death against Russia and providing open-ended support as long as Ukrainians bleed, bleed, bleed!
I can only point you to the people of Ukraine. It is their decision to carry arms against Russia. They could and did flee to freedom across their borders to other countries. But some stayed to fight for their land and some returned to fight for their land. They don't fight for Zelensky. They are not puppets. They fight for themselves, no one is making them. They couldn't continue against the onslaught of Russian brutality if it weren't true that they fight for themselves. We saw the same behavior in World War II in the occupied nations. Little people with nothing to gain but a return to what had been, stood against the invader and many died. They died then and the Ukrainians are dying now. They died for the same thing the right to decide who chooses what their life will be. Do not be fooled by logic and rhetoric. This fight is about the soul and the heart of the Ukrainians. If not, it would have been Afghanistan all over again. Korea all over again. Vietnam all over again. Iraq all over again. When the people fight as the Ukrainians fight, as the Russians fought in World War II, as the French fought in World War II, they fight for themselves and no others.
Very well said. Ukrainians are free agents, and are fighting for themselves and for their land; unlike Russia, no one is holding a gun to their heads to force them into that defense. As in this country, there are reprehensible people there, and some of them want to control others with violence; I'd argue that while there is very little to choose between Azov and Wagner, in Ukraine's extremity and fight, yes, to the death if necessary, Azov guys can fight just as well as other Ukrainians.
My assessment differs starkly from yours. We could compare notes and sources, or not.
Ukraians have been victims of a right-wing terrorist thug regime. In cases like that, people lose their autonomous will, although it does come out in socially-approved expressions of fanatacism.
And then there is the split in Ukraine between the largely Russian-speaking, Russia-friendly southeast, and the NATO-oriented, Ukrainian-speaking northwest, with the neo-Nazi stronghold being in the extreme west in eastern Galicia, which was part of Poland gobbled by Stalin at the beginning of World War II.
There was an oligarch named Kolomoysky, who funded both Zelensky and neo-Nazis. Poroshenko referred to Zelensky as "Kolomoysky’s puppet." Zelensky won an overwhelming majority on a platform of bringing swift peace to the Donbass. But he reneged on his campaign promise to the Ukrainian people and followed the will of the neo-Nazis and the International Monetary Fund and NATO toward reigniting the "frozen" civil war in the Donbass.
As Zelensky built up forces to invade, the Russians recognized the independence of the Donbass republics and gave them security guarantees. Zelensky began his pre-invasion bombardment and publicly mused about reacquiring nuclear weapons just before Russia invaded.
I noticed. I provided a list of historical documents that the Russians signed and Putin violated. More than a hundred countries found him in violation of the UN Charter for his annexation of Crimea in 2014. In 2022, once again the majority of UN member countries found the invasion unjustifiable. The International Court of Justice found the Russian evidence supporting the invasion lacking and instructed them to withdraw. I am not concerned with Ukrainian internal politics. That's their responsibility to sort out. We've got our own to deal with. The issue is sovereignty and territorial integrity. This is basic rule of law. You cannot come into my house and kill me and get away with it. If you did, no one would be safe. That's the point. Countries cannot be allowed to continue to attack one another simply because they feel they're justified. That behavior has to be in the rearview mirror for all countries. We are all too interdependent. You're living in a past that is being abandoned.
In 2005 my daughter went to Ukraine as a Peace Corps volunteer. Dark-skinned volunteers were not sent there, for their safety, after a volunteer of Indian heritage was attacked. A dark-skinned street vendor was set on fire, making news in the US, but not an isolated incident then. Nothing to do with Zelenskyy.
We visited Kyiv, Odesa, and Lviv in 2005. Little old ladies were sweeping the streets with twig brooms, because their pensions were crap. Teachers took turns getting paid.
Since then the standard of living vastly improved, judging by the refugees who escaped in their own cars. Putin is threatened, not by NATO, but by a prosperous neighbor whose citizens enjoy freedom of speech.
You are right, but some of them you just want to grab 'em by the shorthairs and introduce their face to the nearest brick wall. Repatedly. Mendacious little shitheads like this one most particularly. Over at TAFM, I zap them into their component electrons the first time they raise their head over the ridge line.
Thanks, TC. I myself have been so harshly ganged up on by fellow commenters in this blog for less than what you just said. As a result, I canceled my subscription. I was rebuked for criticizing a commenter for posting a misogynist quote that I found inappropriate. I'm a feminist, I find calling women whores is ugly and sexist, but I was shut down. You're a man, you're free to say anything you like, but elderly feminists must keep their mouths shut. Good luck.
I'm sorry you ran afoul of the tone police. Interestingly, I have (on other Substack pages) gotten drilled for being both a male chauvinist and a radical feminist. The beauty of gender ambiguity.
Thank you. But I need a break. It also feels like people's minds can be closed regardless of their politics. And I hate that comment threads can easily become closed circles where you get your ass kicked if you disagree with the club.
Here's an old Vietnam GI saying that you can use for yourself when the Morality Police drive up in their Volvos and put down their cucumber sandwiches to berate you:
I was one of those on this post that disagreed with you about Dorothy Parker's "horticulture" quote. I wasn't "shutting you down" in any way, nor do I think others were either, although I did not read every single comment. Let's not equate disagreement with censorship. You're perfectly free to say whatever you like here, so please do not self-shut your mouth.
I don't know how many times I've reported him, and he just keeps coming back, like one of those clown punching bags with the weighted bottoms. So now I just try to ignore him - particularly when he re-posts the same comment in a thread, and whenever his comment contains links to his comments to past Letters. And I'd never click on any link he includes in any of his screeds.
Your comment presupposes that Jon Margolis's continuing baseless effort to brand me as a Putin supporter (and therefore unworthy of respect) is not, in your opinion, an example of McCarthyism. Perhaps I should have said neo-McCarthyism? And who, in your mind, is "they"?
Putting the shoe on the other foot, how much were you paid to post what you did? Can you see that others might think that it is actually YOU who have debased yourself?
Only female commenters get slapped here. That's unfortunate. TC is right, you tedious, annoying troll. Go find a new hobby and stop trying to provoke people with your asinine commentary.
I tried to find all of the ones doing it. If I missed it, I apologize. Pointing out the concepts, ideas, and preconceived notions of a post with which one disagrees is communication . Devolving posts into personal attacks doesn't improve communications or relations between people, this is also known as "when push comes to shove". A personal attack only increases the problems between people. Diplomacy 101 and De-escalation 101. I've been guilty of personal attacks. We all are, but someone who's not so frustrated needs to point it out and hopefully get the conversation back to an exchange of positions.
I tried to read the link, but it failed. Did you perhaps have a copy and past error? Please try again. Note in my last reply on this topic, I noted my own guilt for using this behavior and its cause, frustration. Please understand, I mean no disrespect. Just trying to de-escalate and hopefully gain ground for the things you say. We cannot reach common ground unless we do grant humanity to our opponents.
I agree. Those who refuse to argue facts or refuse to accept what we consider factual are frustrating and toxic. I had to walk away from my own brother because he is so stalwart in his defense of his position and I can neither change his mind nor accept his position. I can only hope that our differences will be resolved at the voting box and not on a street somewhere in America with spilled blood on the ground.
I like your spelling”Nitwityahoo”! Thanks for letting me pronounce his name for the first time!! TCinLA I take all of this deeply seriously. We are watching “Trump-the dump”all around the world. Why? Why are we so passive about abusive behavior? Would we accept this from you or from me? Would we accept it from our children? The right answer is ?
Two excellent books by a Jewish historian who fought in the Six-Day War, Shlomo Sand, are "The Invention of the Land of Israel" and "The Invention of the Jewish People." Very interesting and insightful accounts into today's Israel and how it got here.
Don't forget "buddhists" - I was shocked when I learned about the persecution of the Karen in Myanmar. And don't forget "atheist" China and their current concentration camps of Uyghurs and the Russians invading Ukraine. Fascists use the machinery of hierarchy, and a shit-ton of humanity likes their daddy to be on top.
Buddhism is a philosophy and it changes in each Country.
I was born and grew up in Sri Lanka a predominently Theravada Buddhist country. The evil that some of these Buddhist priests espouse is mind blowing. They are 'kept' by the poor people bringing food and money they can ill-afford.
The biggest threat to Sri Lanka is Buddhist Nationalism which caused the Civil war.
Get rid of those 'rose tinted spectacles' and do some research?
I spent a month, solo/budget in Sri Lanka in 1992. From Colombo and Kandy, I traveled north and south...the people were so sweet...rode the crowded railway, sitting on the outside steps (the train was So slow) I talked my way into the switching room at one stop. People said, "you are Austrian?, British?, Canadian?...US travelers were rare sight in their country.
Sri Lanka has a place in my heart; I hate to hear all the bad things that happen...like "my" train getting blown up.......
Just so people "get it" - Nitwityahoo's far right fundamentalist fascist coalition is the equivalent of having Trump back in office. Putting former convicted settler terrorist Itamir Ben Gvir in as Interior Minister is like Trump making Enrique Tarrio of the Proud Boys the Secretary of Homeland Security.
Fundamentalists, whether masquerading as "christian," "jewish," "muslim," or "hindu" are all fascist scumbags who are about as "religious" as a rock.
Aggressive "fundamentalists" worship their own egos, positing that God rubber stamps whatever aggressive thing they have the urge to do; from attempting to control what couples do in bed (or what women do just about any time) to "holy" crusades against other peoples and nations.
💯
Absolutely right! It is time for America to back away from support of Israel as our values are no longer shared.
Discussing it among ourselves is well and good, but we all need to write to President Biden, our senators and our representatives recommending that the US “back away from support of Israel as our values are no longer shared.” Then we need to get out the vote for the 2024 presidential election to defeat the right wing at home.
Ruth, it looks like more likely you should be armed and be prepared to fight on the street or the other side will maintain their power. Sad to say that is where we are today. Good luck to you and God help us.
Ha ha ha ha ha ha
Burton, thank you but I won't be able to protect you either. Good luck and Peace.
How silly, Protection? What are you talking about? Focus on protecting yourself m.
The problem is that America is sliding perilously close to becoming an authoritarian, christofascist country unless we get out the blue vote in November 2024.
Actually, aren't the values of the Donny from Queens and MAGA-wingers of the GNoP, of Benny from Philly and his 'We are Right No Matter What You Say' group, and of Putin and his backers quite shared.?
However, in the US, approximately 65% do share the most of the same values.
Israel is not just Netanyahu and his coalition. We can easily see that by the protests. We must find a way to bathe the baby and only throw away the bathwater. We must find a way to help Israel accept the ideas of Palestinians and Palestinians accept the ideas of Israel. Both exhibit the fears of cornered animals. We should encourage a Constitutional Convention. I believe that the people of this region new and ancient must participate but I also believe that this is their future to choose. Perhaps we could offer a safe venue. A moderator who's only role is to strip the hurt and see the kernel of thought and echo it back.
Damn straight, TC!
Say it again! Can we get a witness from the choir?!?
Amen
You buy into TCinLA's trademark vitriolic hate.
https://heathercoxrichardson.substack.com/p/july-24-2023/comment/21289006
It’s calling out the bad actors who need to be called out. If you object to “scumbags,” do you have a better word?
TCinLA referred to all fundamentalists as "fascist scumbags." Perhaps TCinLA is just as bad an actor as they are.
That's because they are, Putin's cocksucker.
TCinLA has been displaying a repeated homoerotic interest in Putin's cock.
That’s not “vitriolic hate,” it’s standing up for people.
Virginia Witmer, calling all fundamentalists "fascist scumbags" isn't standing up for anyone. If you can't see that as hateful, then perhaps you are so consumed by hate that you are blind to it in others.
You're a persistent moron, aren't you?
You would seem to be talking to yourself.
Go drop dead you little fuckwit. By the way, Mommie said she wants her computer back, little boy.
Habitual contempt breeds cockroaches in the soul.
Amen! Speak it. speak it LOUD!
Ok, but in all seriousness, maybe the US should offer some of those secular and center-left Jewish Israelis a home here, while reducing or withdrawing financial and other support from this rapidly-becoming-fascist state.
And HOW can Israel have NO CONSTITUTION? What have I missed?
The Declaration of State includes an entire paragraph about creating a constitution. Because six countries declared war on Israel immediately after the State was announced, there was no time to create, debate, and adopt a constitution. In the intervening 75 years, the Supreme Court has established “Basic Laws” which codify some of what we would consider part of a constituent, guaranteeing basic rights and expectations. This is part of why the judicial “reforms” are so concerning .There is currently a conversation happening in Israel academic and public policy circles to call for a constitutional convention. It may be one way out of the current situation, although I don’t see the current ruling coalition being swift to adopt any recommendations.
Thanks for the explanation. And just to point out that Netanyahu's or his minions' use of the word "reforms" to describe what Netanyahu is trying to do is to debase the word entirely.
Thank you for this background.
I think they want their country back.
David, I thought that the thousands of Israeli protesters had Netanyahu's attention and he might back off, but obviously that was not the case. He has never acted as though he appreciated our financial and moral support for Israel, and has always been sorely lacking morally, so we should cease rewarding him for his bad behavior. We could use the billions to right our own ship.
Being under indictment for fraud and corruption, Netanyahu can't back down. He needs to change the court so that the charges against him will disappear. Weakening the judicial system is frequently one of the first steps in the march to fascism.
Betsy, I totally understand why Netanyahu wants to weaken the courts, and it echoes TFG's motivation. Besides both of them aspiring to be fascists and drive our countries rightward, to authoritarianism, they want to be certain that they have a buffer for their criminal behavior - birds of a feather, so to speak. It's no wonder that the two of them were so cozy, despite TFG's antisemitism. He got a pass on that, as long as he was more disdainful of the Palestinians. All of this makes a future second term for the Orange Menace more frightening, with the possibility of our government mimicking Russia, China, much of South America, and Hungary and many others in Europe.
We must figure out a way to give leaders a timeout until their crimes are adjudicated. It is possible that the charges are not true, the presumption of innocence is critical to a democracy. But allowing someone accused to exert power to protect themselves is a fatal wound. If a leader is accused, can we focus judicial review to be started pending investigation. Then support the investigation with profound civil cooperation. I'm babbling now. You guys know what I'm trying to say. Help me flesh it out. How do we prevent the investigation from going off track from facts to fiction? How do we prevent judicial review from becoming a kangaroo court? How do we prevent the law from becoming unjust?
Perhaps, the people could take their leaders to international court. How would we structure that court?
I definitely agree! Thank you for an insightful comment.
Netanyahu isn’t backing off because the Knesset just handed him a Get Out of Jail Free card.
Absolutely, Burton. That's what TFG is hoping for. Certainly, his cohorts in the legislature can mostly be counted on, and if he appeals a conviction, he's hoping for a similar reaction from SCOTUS. Depending on the Democrats' results in the '24 election, SCOTUS might be wary of angering the Democrats, since it's possible that their joyride could hit some bumps.
=========================================================
For whatever reason, this comment showed up in duplicate, and when I removed one, both went away.
How do we let those protesters know we stand with them? They are brave and perhaps support would bring hope.
You buy into TCinLA's trademark vitriolic hate.
https://heathercoxrichardson.substack.com/p/july-24-2023/comment/21289006
Hallelujah, brother! Yes, indeed!
You buy into TCinLA's trademark vitriolic hate.
https://heathercoxrichardson.substack.com/p/july-24-2023/comment/21289006
The late lesbian/feminist theologian Mary Daly wrote that patriarchy was the world's religion and the various religions its denominations. That made sense to me when I first read it, and it makes sense to me now, noting the similarity of the "religious" fundamentalists despite their supposedly glaring doctrinal differences.
I do wonder about Netanyahu et al.'s risking the support of the Israeli military. Yes, Syria has imploded, and (thanks to Bush et al.) Iraq is not the external threat it once was, but the Israeli military has always been about more than national security: in important ways it also holds the nation together because nearly everybody has served in it.
Have you read historian Lynn White Jr.'s 1967 prescient "Science" piece "The Historical Roots of our Ecological Crisis"? In it, he links the two-headed monster of monotheism with men's 2000 year-old commodification of once abundant natural resources. While he only implies that both patriarchy and what we now call the Climate Crisis needed monotheism to flourish, it seems obvious that worshiping a single sky daddy, and rallying around our all-powerful earth daddies go hand in hand.
From White's 1967 piece:
"In Antiquity every tree, every spring, every stream, every hill had its own genius loci, its guardian spirit. These spirits were accessible to men, but were very unlike men; centaurs, fauns, and mermaids show their ambivalence. Before one cut a tree, mined a mountain, or dammed a brook, it was important to placate the spirit in charge of that particular situation, and to keep it placated. By destroying pagan animism,
Christianity made it possible to exploit nature in a mood of indifference to the feelings of natural objects."
http://www.brontaylor.com/courses/pdf/White--HistoricalRootsEcoCrisis(1967).pdf
No -- will check it out -- but in my 20s and 30s I was reading (in addition to Mary Daly) stuff like Susan Griffin's WOMAN AND NATURE, Merlin Stone's WHEN GOD WAS A WOMAN, Andrée Collard's THE RAPE OF THE WILD, etc., etc., so the connection between patriarchal religion and violence against women and the natural world has been embedded in my psyche for a long time.
Thanks for the link. I'm printing it out.
Male and female all serve, men at least 32 months, women at least 24.
That's my understanding too, but I don't know what exemptions, if any, exist so I hesitate to use the word "all".
The fundiescum get exemptions for being in "rabbi school" - if they serve, they serve in an all-fundie unit where they can practice all their bigotry and ignorance.
https://heathercoxrichardson.substack.com/p/july-24-2023/comment/21289006
Agree, should have said almost all.
That really nails it, Susan.
https://heathercoxrichardson.substack.com/p/july-24-2023/comment/21289006
I will suggest that Turkey wanted both the F-35s and the Russian S-400 system so it could practice shooting down the Israeli air force.
I mostly agree, but then there is witchcraft!
Which goes long with the "paganism." We need to find another word to describe the old religions - "pagan" was just Latin for "peasant." Which gives you an idea of the overweening sense of entitlement the Xtians hd.
Well, "pagan" also meant, more or less, country person, which might suggest that city people were awfully full of themselves -- but it might also suggest that pagan traditions were generally linked to the natural world. The Christians had to co-opt those traditions to gain serious traction with the common folk.
The word "cretin," btw, derives from "Christian," so don't tell me etymology doesn't have a sense of humor.
I laughed out loud at that.
You can see all kinds of pagan traditions Christianity appropriated. Most prominently Christmas. I mean, come on - the story is the Romans took a census and everyone had to return to their hometown, and they did it in the dead of winter? Ha! Christmas is the Roman mid-winter holiday Saturnalia, stolen. I doubt there is anything original in the religion.
Also, the mythological tale of the creation of Israel boggles the mind - modern archeology has found lots and lots of records from the rein of Ramses III, likely the Pharoah at the time of the Exodus. There is no mention in there of the plagues, which would be amazing enough to at least get a sentence or two - at least the one about the eldest male child of every family dying in one night. Also nothing in the historical record anywhere of an entire ethnic group being held as a slave class. And yet the modern history of the Middle East is the product of that myth that never happened.
It's not just Christmas (which is still referred to as Yule, one of its old names). The major Christian holidays map very closely to the solstices, equinoxes, and cross-quarter days (which fall midway between the solstices and equinoxes).
The modern history of the Middle East does owe a fair amount to that myth, but don't discount good ol' European imperialism, especially the British but also the French. Also the growing awareness in the early 20th century that there was a helluva lot of oil in the Persian Gulf region. The rise of Hitler and the Holocaust pretty much made it a done deal, but the foundation had been laid before then. (In 1969, I was a finalist in a high school speaking competition. My topic? The Sykes-Picot agreement of 1916. The lesson? If you want to get to the finals, pick a topic that no one else knows anything about. ;-) )
Yes, the secret Sikes-Picot Treaty of 1916, dividing up the remains of the Ottoman Empire between Britain and France, taking no notice of the actual facts on the ground while drawing lines on a map, is the political cornerstone of Every Bad Thing in the Middle East today.
Add the Balfour Declaration of 1917 and you've pretty much nailed it. The text: "His Majesty's Government view with favour the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people, and will use their best endeavours to facilitate the achievement of this object, it being clearly understood that nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine, or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country."
Even as a high school student I was struck by the use of the passive voice: "it being clearly understood" and "nothing shall be done." (Clearly I was an editor in the making!)
Thanks. Yes, forgot that one and it is super-important.
I was a teenage Arabist, and I haven't forgotten all of it. Like when Kim Philby's defection to the USSR became public, I was all "You mean he was St. John Philby's son??"
Exactly so.
If you can't beat them, throw a better party! The holidays are an amusing power struggle. Those pagan habits live with us today. Wise women quietly live on, passing their skills to each new generation. Enjoy your herbal tea!
Damn! I know French but I never knew that! Thanks Susanna!
I've known French since 1966. And I only learned this today, almost 60 years later. That is so wonderful!!!
https://heathercoxrichardson.substack.com/p/july-24-2023/comment/21289006
Go0 bend over for Putin you little piece of shit.
So full of anger :-(
If you've read Mary Daly's _Gyn/Ecology_ (1978), you know that the witches, and the persecution of "witches," were very much included in her spinning.
Agreed.
Nitwityahoo fits like a well-worn glove
And, if it fits, you must convict.
Agree totally, TC. I have no use for religious fundamentalists no matter what religion they follow. They are responsible for the bad rep that all religions have.
The problem is that the three "great religions" in the world are steeped in patriarchy and tragically, in misogyny. It is only partially a fundamentalist issue. Religions deserve a bad rep - they deny science, and let's face it, believing in an invisible being who, like Santa Claus, punishes you for being bad and rewards you with heaven after you die if you behave yourself, is pretty damn ridiculous.
I would say it is more than three. Most societies are patriarchal. It would save us a lot of problems if they were matriarchal. After all, everyone knows who mom is and we wouldn't have to keep women under lock and key to make sure that so that we know who the father is. I would say that fundamentalism makes the problems much worse.
Last year I spent my summer reading about misogyny, and its roots go back to before the time of Herodotus. One theory says it's because of the fear of women's ability to have babies, but men's sexual desire seems to have played a greater role. From fear comes hatred, and from fear and hatred comes the need to control. Women's sexuality also plays a part, and the double standard that makes men "studs" and women "whores," "sluts," etc. All 3 Abrahamic faiths teach that women must be controlled lest they corrupt the virtues of men. This is why calling a woman a whore is to insult all women.
I would say men's sexual desire is what it is all about....blame women for male lust. That's why in some cultures they have to cover up completely. In so-called democratic Athens, women were never considered adults and had to be under the control of some man. That's why men did the shopping and women were kept mostly confined to the house unseen. In autocratic Sparta, women actually had more freedom because they had to run the estates because males were in the barracks from seven on. Frankly, the people who ran the religious places knew that women would keep men from thinking about God. So, go to the desert and sit on the pillar and what do you think those guys were actually thinking about. Btw, have you read God, An Anatomy and if so, how did you find it.
If men want truly to be loved by women, they have to give up control. I don't know why so many men through history have not figured that out.
Our closest primate relatives are chimps (patriarchal) and bonobos(matriarchal). Part of it has been controlling who has access to a woman because in most societies, land and estate has passed through men. So a male would want to make sure his sons were his and not some stray male. This is probably only part of the story.
It was a very significant part of Islam. Inheritance of land and money required a system of inheritance laws.
I've been seeking out your comments. I don't find your comments beyond the pale. This subset of comments find you in good company. Please don't leave us. Take a break. Listen to the breeze. Take a deep breath and dive back in. Telling us what you think is important for us. Not because you're superior or always right but because the earth is small and we need everyone to succeed. Peace
Thank you very, very much for your kind comment. I paid for another month :) I don't mind criticism but it hurts when people butt in to "support" someone who disagrees with me, and it just gets mean. Last time one of the commenters told others to block me. There were five or six women defending a male commenter who used a famous quote to call MTG a "whore." I absolutely do not tolerate that; it's as vile as calling a Black person the "N word." I felt very disappointed that these commenters thought it was funny. We can hate MTG but we don't use the word "whore" to denigrate anyone. Sexuality-based insults against women have plagued us since biblical times.
Right (only part of the story). Our hunter-gatherer ancestors were largely polyamorous, and more like bonobos than chimps. That's why males have such effin crazy levels of libido. Here's an example of the level of libido:
In 11th grade, I loved my English teacher, a middle aged woman who had a good understanding of teenaged boys, and I loved the class she taught. But on this particular spring day, my libido was making it impossible for me to pay attention, much as I tried. It was driving me crazy. So at the end of the class I did something I'd never done before. Heretofore, I'd restricted doing "homework," the word for an activity that one vastly prefers to do with someone of the gender one is attracted to, when when has to do it by oneself, to my room or the bathroom at home. But now I made a beeline for the bathroom at school, hoping against hope that there'd be noone else there. There wasn't, at first, but then there was, and I stopped what I was doing and froze until they left. Then I resumed.
The reason polyamory gave rise to this level of libido is that instead of males competing with one-another for females, the competition was happening at the level of the sperm. A guy had to produce a hell of a lot of sperm, and had to keep it coming if he was to have offspring in the next generation. And the theory is that the mushroom cap of the penis evolved to pull the previous guy's sperm out of the vaginal tract. Human penises and testicles are among the very biggest in the primates. Truly monogamous male primates have tiny little penises and do it once a year. See: Sex at Dawn, by Christopher Ryan and Cacilda Jetha.
I have great sympathy for men in that regard. Women can hide it all away once they mature. Men must sing little songs or focus on something else. Please know that women love men and enjoy all your talents. But as the transgender conversation brings up and makes us cringe, men can attack, have attacked to satisfy this biological imperative. That behavior has caused male family members to be protective. It has also caused them to attack their own. Until men grapple and control this part of their biological imperative, women will be on guard.
Ms.Dufour, I wasn't looking for sympathy, I was simply stating facts. I'm also a couple of decades beyond the times when desire could drive me crazy. I do blame the men who attack, or otherwise harass women for putting them on guard--which is a perfectly reasonable reaction. I do not blame the women for that. I have a sister, an adult niece, a niece in-law, and some close female cousins, and multiple close friends who are women, and their comfort and security is very important to me.
I tell my own story, and recount the science from the book because I think it's useful to know this stuff, and because I have a powerful intellectual interest in sex. Partly because of that, I was also a research subject in this study, which involved a lot of self stimulation while in an MRI, including to big O (very difficult in MRI): https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S1743609519318661
No, I haven't read it, but I certainly will.
I think men have always been allowed to express their sexuality and take pride in it, unlike women. Women, from the time of the Bible, were made responsible for men's sexual behavior, which includes rape and incest. And the wealthier the man, the less they were held responsible. Look at Trump; Lucian Truscott IV recently wrote a great piece about Trump as Rapist. You can find it here on substack. It was also published 2 days ago in Salon.com.
https://www.salon.com/2023/07/22/the-big-why-whats-behind-donald-trumps-apparent-self-sabotage/
Dear Gus. I knew he was horrible, but seeing it allcollected in one place demonstrates TheRump is barely human!
Read, actually I listened to it, twice, Graeber and Wengrow's "The Dawn of Everything." It successfully vexes the notion that widespread patriarchy is any older than 3,000-ish years old, in the context of a 190,000 year-long human history.
I cannot recommend the audio version enough. Your library almost certainly has it via the CloudLibrary.
I have it in my library and I have read it. What we have now falls within the 3 to 5 thousand range or so. I haven't decided what I think of the book yet. We are talking in this thread about the three monotheistic religions and I would include India and China among others civilizations as patriarchal. Most societies in the historical era are patriarchal. Some African societies are matriarchal and I think if I am remembering the book you mention correctly that some Native American societies are as well. It makes sense because you always know who the mother is. As soon as societies are patriarchal, then control of women is necessary if land and estate passes through males. You don't want you patrimony going to someone else's blood.
I read somewhere not long ago that evangelicals, or some of them at least, actually believe that there is a battle, invisible and (I suppose) otherwise undetectable by us mortals (but then, how do THEY know?) literally being raged right now, on some other plane of existence, between God and its angels and Satan and its demons. How can one have an intelligent conversation with someone with such a diseased imagining? I can't remember where I read it, so can't provide a citation, and I really don't want to get into the weeds of evangelicism to search it out, because EW. I suppose I have to acknowledge that in an infinite Universe there COULD be a god, there COULD be a satan, there COULD be angels, demons, and other dimensions on which battles could be fought (I love science fiction and fantasy), but REALLY. And if I've misunderstood their belief and have misstated it, I apologize to the evangelical community.
I think I need to amend this to read that I'd heard this on a podcast, not read it somewhere. If I can find a citatation, I'll post it.
Spot on, Marycat.
Yup.
TCinLA writes:
"Putting former convicted settler terrorist Itamir Ben Gvir in as Interior Minister is like Trump making Enrique Tarrio of the Proud Boys the Secretary of Homeland Security."
That's EXACTLY what was done in Ukraine, with the Neo-Nazi political kingpin Arsen Avakov elevated to Interior Minister (in charge of the police) after his right-wing fascist thugs put the Maiden Revolution over the top, overthrowing Ukraine's Russia-friendly government.
Looks like Zelensky fired this fellow Avakov John.
https://www.rferl.org/a/ukraine-avakov-resignation-accepted/31359737.html.
He is gone. Looks like the "Russia friendly" group must be gone too, IF it ever existed in the first place.
Now? It looks like Russia cannot even attract the Wagner group and its leader anymore. Can you say "bottom of the barrel"??
His coal-colored glasses sees only Schitt where there is light
A Case, of *UNDER ! ,
the Barrel !*
Or making the barrel three years bigger. Ruzzia is raising the draft age from 27 to 30.
I saw this...weird.
Nice try at transparent spin, which is only effective if your audience WANTS to believe.
Zelensky KEPT AVAKOV as Interior Minister after he became President. Later, after being strongly supported by Zelensky, Avakov resigned
Transparent spin???????????????? Thats a new one.
Think it through... I'll give another example of transparent spin. Think of an evangelical true-believer, who doesn't know how to rebut your argument, so he goes to his minister, who has just the prepackaged double-speak that the True Believer needs to reaffirm his commitment without thinking for himself.
On another note, regarding how the situation in Ukraine evolved, you could check my reply to Paula Dufour:
https://heathercoxrichardson.substack.com/p/july-24-2023/comment/21294761
Sorry John - "transparency" and "spin" really dont belong together.
Does it matter? Avakov is gone. How he left is not important.
Paula Dufour,
Perhaps the question of whether it matters is worth careful thought.
I will share my point of view, which I suspect might be in need of refining, and you and others can share your thoughts.
Avakov's rise to power facilitated the emergence in Ukraine of a culture of open bigotry, much more extreme that than associated with Trump here in the USA. As "The Nation" reported in 2019:
"Five years ago, Ukraine’s Maidan uprising ousted President Viktor Yanukovych, to the cheers and support of the West. Politicians and analysts in the United States and Europe not only celebrated the uprising as a triumph of democracy, but denied reports of Maidan’s ultranationalism, smearing those who warned about the dark side of the uprising as Moscow puppets and useful idiots. Freedom was on the march in Ukraine.
"Today, increasing reports of far-right violence, ultranationalism, and erosion of basic freedoms are giving the lie to the West’s initial euphoria. There are neo-Nazi pogroms against the Roma, rampant attacks on feminists and LGBT groups, book bans, and state-sponsored glorification of Nazi collaborators.
"These stories of Ukraine’s dark nationalism aren’t coming out of Moscow; they’re being filed by Western media, including US-funded Radio Free Europe (RFE); Jewish organizations such as the World Jewish Congress and the Simon Wiesenthal Center; and watchdogs like Amnesty International, Human Rights Watch, and Freedom House, which issued a joint report warning that Kiev is losing the monopoly on the use of force in the country as far-right gangs operate with impunity.
"Five years after Maidan, the beacon of democracy is looking more like a torchlight march."
https://www.thenation.com/article/politics/neo-nazis-far-right-ukraine/
I will suggest that this horror could only have happened if outside forces were manipulating Ukraine in ways that were not supported by the majority of the Ukrainian people. I will further suggest that Zelensky is part of the problem and that Avakov is no longer necessary. See, for example:
"How One Ukrainian Billionaire Funded Hunter Biden, President Volodymyr Zelensky, And Neo-Nazi Azov Battalion"
https://greatgameindia.com/hunter-biden-zelensky-neo-nazi/
See also "How Zelensky Made Peace with Neo-Nazis"
https://consortiumnews.com/2022/03/04/how-zelensky-made-peace-with-neo-nazis/
My assessment is that the neo-Nazis have been tolerated by the NATO powers, led by the United States, because they provide internal support for the external imperative to transmogrify Ukraine into a zombie soldier bleeding itself to death to weaken Russia. The genocidal International Monetary Fund, back in 2014, made the new Ukrainian regime promise, as part of a loan agreement, to re-conquer the breakaway Donbass republics, because their heavy industry was an important source of revenue to service the debt. Zelensky, before Avakov resigned, publicly pledged to honor all of Ukraine's commitments to the International Monetary Fund: Ukraine was already on the march toward re-igniting the civil war in the Donbass, which meant tearing to shreds the battered Minsk Agreements, which is exactly what Zelensky did in February 2022, precipitating the Russian invasion.
Once again, that is my assessment. I am willing to talk it through and explain how I come to the conclusions that I present above.
I know it is difficult to side with people who may not be truly aligned with one's values, but in war, if you're not trying to kill me you are my ally. Zelensky's communications skills are serving the greater good for Ukraine. When the war is over judgments can be made about who was truly working for the Ukrainian people. During World War II many who were less desirable for their behavior prior to the war and even during the war helped to create the outcome America fought for. Whores, criminals, dilettantes, dabblers, and political opponents who were previously repugnant became allies in the face of an all-consuming war. When the dust has settled, Nuremberg will rise again to arrive at justice and the Marshal Plan will come back to rebuild what was destroyed. Now is not the time to fight about Ukrainian politics. Let's discuss the Ukrainian government once Russia withdraws. This conflict is about sovereignty and territorial integrity for the rest of the world, not the politics of Ukraine. We failed Ukraine in 2014. We stand with Ukraine now so that we don't have to fight for our sovereignty and territorial integrity against another sovereign who has an eye on our land and resources tomorrow. I'll be ready to listen when Russia withdraws.
I respectfully but strongly disagree. Zelensky, in my view, is a puppet.
NATO and the genocidal IMF are flip sides of the same coin, prodding Zelensky to bleed Ukraine to death against Russia and providing open-ended support as long as Ukrainians bleed, bleed, bleed!
I can only point you to the people of Ukraine. It is their decision to carry arms against Russia. They could and did flee to freedom across their borders to other countries. But some stayed to fight for their land and some returned to fight for their land. They don't fight for Zelensky. They are not puppets. They fight for themselves, no one is making them. They couldn't continue against the onslaught of Russian brutality if it weren't true that they fight for themselves. We saw the same behavior in World War II in the occupied nations. Little people with nothing to gain but a return to what had been, stood against the invader and many died. They died then and the Ukrainians are dying now. They died for the same thing the right to decide who chooses what their life will be. Do not be fooled by logic and rhetoric. This fight is about the soul and the heart of the Ukrainians. If not, it would have been Afghanistan all over again. Korea all over again. Vietnam all over again. Iraq all over again. When the people fight as the Ukrainians fight, as the Russians fought in World War II, as the French fought in World War II, they fight for themselves and no others.
Very well said. Ukrainians are free agents, and are fighting for themselves and for their land; unlike Russia, no one is holding a gun to their heads to force them into that defense. As in this country, there are reprehensible people there, and some of them want to control others with violence; I'd argue that while there is very little to choose between Azov and Wagner, in Ukraine's extremity and fight, yes, to the death if necessary, Azov guys can fight just as well as other Ukrainians.
Lynn Spann Bowditch,
I suppose my reply to Paula can go out to you, too:
https://heathercoxrichardson.substack.com/p/july-24-2023/comment/21325650
Paula Dufour,
My assessment differs starkly from yours. We could compare notes and sources, or not.
Ukraians have been victims of a right-wing terrorist thug regime. In cases like that, people lose their autonomous will, although it does come out in socially-approved expressions of fanatacism.
And then there is the split in Ukraine between the largely Russian-speaking, Russia-friendly southeast, and the NATO-oriented, Ukrainian-speaking northwest, with the neo-Nazi stronghold being in the extreme west in eastern Galicia, which was part of Poland gobbled by Stalin at the beginning of World War II.
There was an oligarch named Kolomoysky, who funded both Zelensky and neo-Nazis. Poroshenko referred to Zelensky as "Kolomoysky’s puppet." Zelensky won an overwhelming majority on a platform of bringing swift peace to the Donbass. But he reneged on his campaign promise to the Ukrainian people and followed the will of the neo-Nazis and the International Monetary Fund and NATO toward reigniting the "frozen" civil war in the Donbass.
As Zelensky built up forces to invade, the Russians recognized the independence of the Donbass republics and gave them security guarantees. Zelensky began his pre-invasion bombardment and publicly mused about reacquiring nuclear weapons just before Russia invaded.
I noticed. I provided a list of historical documents that the Russians signed and Putin violated. More than a hundred countries found him in violation of the UN Charter for his annexation of Crimea in 2014. In 2022, once again the majority of UN member countries found the invasion unjustifiable. The International Court of Justice found the Russian evidence supporting the invasion lacking and instructed them to withdraw. I am not concerned with Ukrainian internal politics. That's their responsibility to sort out. We've got our own to deal with. The issue is sovereignty and territorial integrity. This is basic rule of law. You cannot come into my house and kill me and get away with it. If you did, no one would be safe. That's the point. Countries cannot be allowed to continue to attack one another simply because they feel they're justified. That behavior has to be in the rearview mirror for all countries. We are all too interdependent. You're living in a past that is being abandoned.
Another very well written response. Brava.
Pushed by the USA
Schpekle,
All paid trolls of Putin seem to say the same things. Don't you guys get bored collecting pay without being original?
...said the IMF Holocaust denier.
"The blood is so much, it runs in rivers..."
--from Davison Budhoo's 100-page resignation letter from the International Monetary Fund
Paula,
Your post is, indeed, a fantastically well written response.
Thank you.
Go fuck yourself with your Putin bullshit, you dumbest motherfucking moron to ever come bothering people here.
In 2005 my daughter went to Ukraine as a Peace Corps volunteer. Dark-skinned volunteers were not sent there, for their safety, after a volunteer of Indian heritage was attacked. A dark-skinned street vendor was set on fire, making news in the US, but not an isolated incident then. Nothing to do with Zelenskyy.
We visited Kyiv, Odesa, and Lviv in 2005. Little old ladies were sweeping the streets with twig brooms, because their pensions were crap. Teachers took turns getting paid.
Since then the standard of living vastly improved, judging by the refugees who escaped in their own cars. Putin is threatened, not by NATO, but by a prosperous neighbor whose citizens enjoy freedom of speech.
Well said.
Don’t respond to John S. No likes or replies. He’ll eventually go away.
report him
Now, now TC, just don't give oxygen to the troll, never mind not feeding it. No more oxygen for the troll.
You are right, but some of them you just want to grab 'em by the shorthairs and introduce their face to the nearest brick wall. Repatedly. Mendacious little shitheads like this one most particularly. Over at TAFM, I zap them into their component electrons the first time they raise their head over the ridge line.
Thanks, TC. I myself have been so harshly ganged up on by fellow commenters in this blog for less than what you just said. As a result, I canceled my subscription. I was rebuked for criticizing a commenter for posting a misogynist quote that I found inappropriate. I'm a feminist, I find calling women whores is ugly and sexist, but I was shut down. You're a man, you're free to say anything you like, but elderly feminists must keep their mouths shut. Good luck.
I'm sorry you ran afoul of the tone police. Interestingly, I have (on other Substack pages) gotten drilled for being both a male chauvinist and a radical feminist. The beauty of gender ambiguity.
:-)
too funny.
Marycat,
I hope you reconsider subscribing. We need all voices.
Thank you. But I need a break. It also feels like people's minds can be closed regardless of their politics. And I hate that comment threads can easily become closed circles where you get your ass kicked if you disagree with the club.
Here's an old Vietnam GI saying that you can use for yourself when the Morality Police drive up in their Volvos and put down their cucumber sandwiches to berate you:
"Just say fuck'm, and drive on."
Morning, Marycat--
I was one of those on this post that disagreed with you about Dorothy Parker's "horticulture" quote. I wasn't "shutting you down" in any way, nor do I think others were either, although I did not read every single comment. Let's not equate disagreement with censorship. You're perfectly free to say whatever you like here, so please do not self-shut your mouth.
I wasn't there for this (I don't think), but "rebuked for criticizing"? Was your criticism not a rebuke?
overboard language but correct.
report him
Still pushing scatalogical McCarthyist bigotry :-(
Speaking of the scatological..........
How are things in St. Petersburg these days? I hope you are enjoying the long summer evenings, because winter is soon to come.
Let's stop this personal attack. Let's just argue ideas and policies please.
Jon - No oxygen for the troll. No oxygen. Ignore it and possibly it will go away.
Report him
I don't know how many times I've reported him, and he just keeps coming back, like one of those clown punching bags with the weighted bottoms. So now I just try to ignore him - particularly when he re-posts the same comment in a thread, and whenever his comment contains links to his comments to past Letters. And I'd never click on any link he includes in any of his screeds.
I don't know what the philosophy is to let continue to post his junk: inspiring healthy debate? Hardly.
I see you are trying to apply clever lipstick to your pig of McCarthyist bigotry.
McCarthyism? In this group? How much are they paying you to debase yourself like this?
No oxygen for the troll, Camilla, no oxygen. Ignore it; every response just encourages it. No oxygen.
Camilla B.,
Your comment presupposes that Jon Margolis's continuing baseless effort to brand me as a Putin supporter (and therefore unworthy of respect) is not, in your opinion, an example of McCarthyism. Perhaps I should have said neo-McCarthyism? And who, in your mind, is "they"?
Putting the shoe on the other foot, how much were you paid to post what you did? Can you see that others might think that it is actually YOU who have debased yourself?
Actually, no.
Man,
John, you gotta stop smoking weed while shooting up LSD and THEN posting comments.
It just ain't workin' out.
Perhaps you're the expert on "shooting up LSD." If you just insult and don't engage with the content of someone's post, that is just trolling.
Let's stop this personal attack. Let's just argue ideas and policies please.
Paula Dufour,
TCinLA wrote, "Go fuck yourself with your Putin bullshit, you dumbest motherfucking moron to ever come bothering people here."
You did not ask him to stop his personal attack. Why not?
Only female commenters get slapped here. That's unfortunate. TC is right, you tedious, annoying troll. Go find a new hobby and stop trying to provoke people with your asinine commentary.
I tried to find all of the ones doing it. If I missed it, I apologize. Pointing out the concepts, ideas, and preconceived notions of a post with which one disagrees is communication . Devolving posts into personal attacks doesn't improve communications or relations between people, this is also known as "when push comes to shove". A personal attack only increases the problems between people. Diplomacy 101 and De-escalation 101. I've been guilty of personal attacks. We all are, but someone who's not so frustrated needs to point it out and hopefully get the conversation back to an exchange of positions.
Paula Dufour, I responded to somebody else's personal attack, on the principle of standing up to a bully.
In general, I respect your imperative to keep things civil.
Regarding the hateful vitriol that I quoted earlier, please check this post:
https://heathercoxrichardson.substack.com/p/july-24-2023/comment/21289006
I tried to read the link, but it failed. Did you perhaps have a copy and past error? Please try again. Note in my last reply on this topic, I noted my own guilt for using this behavior and its cause, frustration. Please understand, I mean no disrespect. Just trying to de-escalate and hopefully gain ground for the things you say. We cannot reach common ground unless we do grant humanity to our opponents.
I don't think it is wise to click on a troll-link. Ever.
I'm not confident they are a troll.
I think I fixed that link.
I share your thought that we cannot reach common ground unless we do grant humanity to our opponents.
However, there are those among us who don't want to try, and who are unwilling to agree to disagree.
I agree. Those who refuse to argue facts or refuse to accept what we consider factual are frustrating and toxic. I had to walk away from my own brother because he is so stalwart in his defense of his position and I can neither change his mind nor accept his position. I can only hope that our differences will be resolved at the voting box and not on a street somewhere in America with spilled blood on the ground.
uh-oh.
I like your spelling”Nitwityahoo”! Thanks for letting me pronounce his name for the first time!! TCinLA I take all of this deeply seriously. We are watching “Trump-the dump”all around the world. Why? Why are we so passive about abusive behavior? Would we accept this from you or from me? Would we accept it from our children? The right answer is ?
Two excellent books by a Jewish historian who fought in the Six-Day War, Shlomo Sand, are "The Invention of the Land of Israel" and "The Invention of the Jewish People." Very interesting and insightful accounts into today's Israel and how it got here.
It could NOT be any clearer thats exactly what it is. I do wonder how long we (US) will continue to subsidize this kind of dictatorship!
Love your response. But please don’t hold back.
El Jefe over at the World's Most Dangerous Beauty Salon is on the same page:
https://juanitajean.com/look-at-israel-today-for-a-glimpse-of-the-us-under-trump-ii/
Juanita Jean is very cool.
Don't forget "buddhists" - I was shocked when I learned about the persecution of the Karen in Myanmar. And don't forget "atheist" China and their current concentration camps of Uyghurs and the Russians invading Ukraine. Fascists use the machinery of hierarchy, and a shit-ton of humanity likes their daddy to be on top.
So totally uninformed America.
Buddhism is a philosophy and it changes in each Country.
I was born and grew up in Sri Lanka a predominently Theravada Buddhist country. The evil that some of these Buddhist priests espouse is mind blowing. They are 'kept' by the poor people bringing food and money they can ill-afford.
The biggest threat to Sri Lanka is Buddhist Nationalism which caused the Civil war.
Get rid of those 'rose tinted spectacles' and do some research?
I spent a month, solo/budget in Sri Lanka in 1992. From Colombo and Kandy, I traveled north and south...the people were so sweet...rode the crowded railway, sitting on the outside steps (the train was So slow) I talked my way into the switching room at one stop. People said, "you are Austrian?, British?, Canadian?...US travelers were rare sight in their country.
Sri Lanka has a place in my heart; I hate to hear all the bad things that happen...like "my" train getting blown up.......
The Russians, being no longer communists, are "devout Christians" with the Russian Orthodox Church supporting the tyrant, as that church always has.
Totally agree! I wish I could put a thousand "likes" on your post!!!