551 Comments

You really had to listen to the oral arguments today to understand just how bad Trump's lawyer's arguments were. (I believe the audio is available on YouTube.) The old legal saying goes: If the facts are on your side, pound on the facts; if the law is on your side, pound on the law; and if neither is on your side, pound on the table. Trump attorney D. John Sauer was pounding on the table, and his increasingly hysterical tone made clear that he knew he was a dead lawyer walking.

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As Lawrence described him tonight, he was a "prop" for the judges to pummel.

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Trump's ongoing legal ordeal is giving him a political flat tire. You can still get down the road for a way as the air leaks out, and you can even ride the rim for a bit, but Trump is slowly transforming into a loser as a candidate.

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For once, I hope you're right John Schmeeckle.

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Schmeeckle! You've become an intelligent observer of the situation!! :-)

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“... [T]ransforming into a loser as a candidate”? ... when one begins as a loser, what makes someone think that they are now on the road to becoming a winner? Very few who start out as “losers” ... become winners - chump trump ain’t one of them!

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It might be worth thinking through the various things that effective candidates must be seen to do. (This list is probably incomplete.)

1. Raise lots of money.

2. Hold well-attended rallies.

3. Perform well enough in televised debates.

4. TV advertising

5. Extensive nationwide organization with motivated grass-roots supporters.

6. Extend their appeal beyond their base and attract swing voters.

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John, your list is mostly right. But as a long-time political observer, a key to being elected is likeability/personality has had an outsize influence on voters who tend to be ignorant of key issues and policies other than single-issue voters. Ike over Stevenson, Ragean over Carter and Mondale, W over Gore, trump over Hillary. Clinton over Bush and Dole. Obama over McCain and Romney. Each is a good example of personality over their challenger.

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John, I think you may be showing your age by omitting how political advertising and support is targeted at Gen X-ers and millennials.

I'm guessing because I don't know either, but shouldn't advertising on social media be included?

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Absolutely, "TV and internet advertising," and also

"active social media presence"

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Effective candidates need to be seen to have a 50 state strategy and an Electoral College strategy.

In 2016, Hillary Clinton disdained DNC leader Howard Dean's 50 state strategy which had worked so well for Obama. And in her arrogance also tried building bridges in Texas while ignoring mending fences with Black voters in states like Wisconsin. (Although Jill Stein did her share of damage. Although in Wisconsin Stein had a nano second of chagrin and demanded a recount. Of course, vote splitter Stein is back for a 2024 reelect Trump replay.)

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I disagree - it is keeping him front and center, providing fodder to tell lies to his cult, and making them even more loony and devoted. I truly wish the stuff happening in court wee back page news, not front page news.

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I agree with you, Pamela. This is the real deal, not some idiotic episode of reality TV. Trump know hows how to play to the cameras and how to manufacture a cheap sound bite. We all know this. We also all know he's not the helpless victim, tied to railroad tracks all but waiting for the dastardly evil government train to run him over (Whaaa, ha, ha!).

Why the press keeps providing front-page oxygen to this never-ending pablum of theatrics I don't quite understand. Surely they can see they are responsible for keeping Trump top of mind with the public with the daily dose, play-by-play of his scam to avoid responsibility. Although, admittedly, it does feel like watching a slow motion train wreck that one just can't seem to look away from...

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Media: remember CBS CE)O? he might not be good for the country but good for our bottom line.

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Dreadful person that CEO!

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Hope springs eternal but this guy is like an eel.... or a greased pig... or something along those lines. We shall see.

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Indeed. And hopefully before the upcoming November election.

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MSM, main stream media, has made a fortune off insurrectionist Trump. Moreover, they are major corporations that welcome the deregulation and tax reductions. Look carefully at their programming choices and the slanted approach of their on-air people. "How bad will this recession be and does that mean the end of Bidenomics?" Leading their guests. Ever see any programs on how the new programs are going into effect and how it is helping the country?

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Dave;

"Why the press: Answer: MONEY! Getting oney out of politics should e the Democrats primary objective.

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I can agree that the news media attention gives fodder to strengthen his base, but a viable candidate needs to reach beyond his base, and this legal stuff seems to be getting counter-productive.

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Jan 10·edited Jan 10

True but I have never worried about people who don’t like him or who are even wishy washy voting for him. MSM press isn’t what they read - it’s what Fox and X etc respond to, mostly with lies. I’m bone weary of how much attention this guy gets. It’s what got him elected the first time.

We like the coverage because it feeds our hope but it doesn’t do anything to alter the course of events. Less would be better in so many ways.

He should never ever have been a viable candidate. Not ever. The only reason he got the primary and then won is because he worked the press.

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I really don't think Trump planned to win in 2016 -- it was just one big infomercial. Then when elected it just became one big grift.

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Pamela, “like a fiddle”

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I would like to agree but I will breathe a sigh of relief only if he loses-and then we will be dealing with the repercussions.

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He’ll soon be regretting the day or days that he gave into his lack of better judgement and decided to add POTUS 45 to his resume!!

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A democracy is in critically bad shape if it cannot shape a solution to the problem of a citizen/candidate using base and ludicrous tactics to avoid trial/conviction/sentencing. It is obvious to the meanest intellect that the immunity question as applied to Trump is a farce of the highest order. Trump has tied the country in knots by the double game of avoiding impeachment because his criminality should be handled in the criminal justice system and then claiming that he is exempt from the justice system in its entirety.

The courts are made to look like silly putty to be twisted in any shape TFG desires. We had the small satisfaction of seeing Judge Pan using Trump’s lawyer’s balls for bookends yesterday. But that is a mere bagatelle. The lawyer undoubtedly was paid a cool sum from Trump’s fundraising coffers to compensate him for the indignities he suffered. And if Trump “loses” as he assuredly will, he has 90 days to appeal to the Supreme Court. 90.

The DOJ can of course appeal for the case to be expedited, but I’d bet on Clarence Thomas recusing himself before I’d lay money down on the Supreme Court rushing to justice.

What a farce. What a clean and neat exposure of the fatal flaws in America’s far overwritten Constitution.

My hope now is for the duplicitous, spineless Nikki Haley to somehow defeat Trump. Even to say that makes me feel like a delusionist, but if she did the Trump Gordian knot would at least be cut. It feels like bargaining to keep a kidney over my liver, but I am so tired of watching Trump’s antics that any alternative seems palatable. Of course she has promised to pardon him. What’s that line about the inmates and the asylum?

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Very well said.

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Jan 10·edited Jan 10

According to Peter Zeihan, a geopolitical analyst, Trump will lose in 2024 because none of the current polling (way too early anyway) includes the independent voters, who do not do polls, but will determine the outcome of the national election. If independents break 1:1 for both candidates, Biden gets 237 electoral votes to 95 for Trump, with 206 toss-ups. If independents break 2:1 for Biden, Biden gets 338 electoral votes to 64 for Trump, with 136 toss-ups. In the first case, Biden needs only 33 additional electoral votes to reach 270; in the second, he wins by one of the largest landslides in modern history. The Republicans are working feverishly to make this happen with their new talk of banning contraception after banning abortion.....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_MLNFzSfEhk

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Jan 10·edited Jan 10

That's definitely worth watching. Hamas handed themselves an Anti-US coup, full knowing that the true right Israeli government would hammer the Gazan population, that the government would NOT heed Biden's calls for moderation, reject anything resembling a two-state solution. Remember, behind Biden there is a working foreign affairs team, he didn't make this tight-rope effort himself. I'm hoping Peter Zaihan in this very recent podcast is wearing realistic goggles. Ill stick with Biden, "from afar" mind you, i hope a preponderance of American voters do too.

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Well, that would make it a horse race, but Biden us in much better physical and mental condition than Trump is, and only 3 years older.

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Did he give any reason? Biden has said the main reason he is running again is because Trump is the Republican nominee. If Trump is not the (R) nominee, Biden might drop out, but I tend to doubt it unless there are medical reasons that are not public yet.....

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Cemblast was continuing a tradition of New Year's predictions; he gave ten, without explaining. However, at that level of power, a "prediction" can sometimes be understood as a statement of intent.

It seems to me that Trump only has a chance of winning the election if Biden is his opponent, and Biden only has a chance of winning if Trump is his opponent.

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As is Biden’s foreign ‘policy’ ordeal. Riding the rim, with two loser candidates.

American Exceptionalism. Twenty-first century style.

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Wrong. Again.

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Tom H. Foreign policy ordeal? You mean “Israel” right? That’s your hammer?

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It's an interesting contrast. Trump's endless legal challenges hurt him with swing voters but not with his base. Biden's handling of Israel/Gaza is costing him with his base:

https://www.newsweek.com/joe-biden-campaign-volunteers-are-quitting-droves-1857610

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Yes Israel Bibi is a corrupted crimminal and wanna be dictator and Biden played right into his hand costing us taxpayers billions. I am going to have the worst time trying to vote for him. I don't think holding my hose will do the trick.

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Julie, play the hand a little longer. What happens when Biden shuts Israel down? Without Congressional concurrence? Israel no longer is an ally. They are on their own. They have nukes and there’s nothing to deter the Radical Government from using them, right? Who persuades them its a bad idea? Who?

Then Congress impeached Biden for failing to support Israel kinda like when Trump defunded Ukraine. Is this the appropriate path for The USA?

Then in spite and malice, GOP Congress refuses to fund Ukraines war against Putin. What happens when Ukraine falls? How does China now view the chessboard?

Please find a way to address these questions in a way that assures nothing bad comes from your responses

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Israel. Ukraine. China. Iran. Syria…

One hegemonic hammer. Many fallacious nails.

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😒

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I would really enjoy seeing him perp-walked.

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Yes, he is... but it seems his ride on the rim is picking up speed....and each day he´s being revealed as the looser, the cheat.

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I'll share a suspicion:

This whole bogus immunity argument is a ploy to stretch things out (with the risk of souring his followers on him) because he has something unexpected up his sleeve.

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he´s going down!

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Sorry, there is nothing “ slowly” about Tramp!

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I hope you are correct. I can't bear to listen to any of them in real time, and I'm appreciative of those who have the fortitude to follow the arguments.

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I happened to listen to the hearing about his gag order, apparently going on at the same time. Lauri was combative with the justices questioning him and, of course, evasive and deflecting. He seemed to totally try one of the justice’s patience in many ways, but especially with his refusal to dialogue.

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I wondered where Lauri was. I continue to be boggled trying to figure out what legal expenses are for this multiply bankrupt criminal. This case, the immunity plea, the stolen documents, the loss of his business in NY. E. Jean Carroll. Stormy.

Are they getting paid?

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Jen One of Trump’s most recent lawyers demanded that $3,000,000 be paid up front before he would commence his lying for Donald. I understand that Donnie paid it and his check didn’t bounce.

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Not paid out of his pocket! Super PACs and maga cult donors! Or he will try to claim it as a campaign expense then reimburse himself from campaign funds! Did that in 2016!

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Louis Of course you are spot on. Every new indictment is a fund raising opportunity for Dippy Donald. Not paying most of his lawyers even make shysters shy away from him.

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I thought I paid attention. You're nerdier than me.

I guess $3 M for ...a years work?

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Jen I believe that I’m older than you, but nerdier? That is a matter of dispute.

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ML, makes you wonder what a table pounder gets paid vs a real lawyer, huh?

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Pretty sure DJT is paying nothing...as grifters do.

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If X equals 5 and Y equals 6, does Y equal 6? A qualified yes, if first X equals 3. Same as saying if the sitting prez is not yet impeached and removed from office, can that sitting prez be held criminally liable for ordering Seal Team 6 to shoot the sitting prez's political opponents, then answering a qualified yes if that sitting prez is first impeached and removed from office.

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Trouble is, the MAGAts don’t care. Critical thinking is so alien to them, they will simply believe the spin that is was all a Democratic ploy…

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I agree with you, in part. MAGA supporters don’t care about Trump’s legal problems, his lack of ethics, his ravings about the Civil War or water disabling magnets because he is airing their grievances and, in their view, defending the country against the “libs” and the “godless commies,” and the “sick perverts” and “illegals” who they despise. Trump’s campaign is a campaign of fear and hate--a well-worn Republican tactic. I don’t think this is an issue of “critical thinking” skills. They know.

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Hm, I have to agree with you on that one. Yes, they know, and they love him for it. What I meant is that they lack a moral standard: it's perfectly ok for Trump, their hero, to commit crimes and be a misogynist, racist asshole, but Biden should be impeached just for the possibility that there is something afoot with his son. Double standards is also a classic GOP trope, I'd say...

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Dutch Mike, a couple of things I would expand on. First, the MAGAS don’t just like Trump in spite of his flamboyant moral turpitude, they like him because of it. He is human vandalism as payback for all of the disappointments they’ve endured while staying loyal to the party that has disserved them for the last fifty years. The second is that this role so fits the actor that he has fused with it. And one more thing I’ll add is that his constant repetition that he has the absolute right to do whatever he wants is a continuation of the tactic he uses to discredit institutional authority ahead of the decision, as when he said the only way he could lose the election was through cheating by the Democrats. This works because it feeds the grievances he is there to assuage.

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Right on target, Jim. And don't forget the tactic that all fascists use: pinning the blame for all problems that your crowd might have on a minority (or multiple minorities), and then suggest that doing away with these minorities will solve those said problems. Or, in other words: offering violence and breaking things down as a way of solving problems. Nobody in the MAGA camp really questions the basics of this philosophy: "Making America Great Again". The word "making" suggests creating something, building something up. You cannot do that by using violence and destruction; a child knows this, but this paradox doesn't seem to bother the MAGA cult one bit.

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I think that, in the same way a child refuses to comply by saying "make me", the word MAKE in MAGA has no meaning.

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But don’t forget that trump gets more money from the oligarchs in this country than he gets from his so-called base.

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Is that true of all cults or just this cadre of cowards

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Oligarchs from other countries! Recall Russian funds laundered through NRA during 2016!! His financial recovery from bankrupting four, yes four, Atlantic Casinos was bankrolled by dirty oligarchs money laundered through Deutche Bank! He used a $900 million write off over several years thanks to a tax ‘cavernous’ loop hole. In fact he only lost $40 million of his own!!

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Yes, and they are using the MAGAs to as a way to get what they want.

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You write Trump’s campaign is a campaign of fear and hate--a well-worn Republican tactic.

This is an authoritarain tactic. I feel so afraid of the direction of the future. I am pretty angry Sec Austin had to open up another can of worms. Do these seemingly smart people not think!

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I don’t think this is about intelligence. The Jan. 6 committee’s deposition of Ginny Thomas is very revealing. Pressed to explain how she could still believe the election was “stolen” despite the 60+ court decisions that went against Trump, the many fruitless investigations, and the findings of Republican state officials who investigated the fraud allegations and found nothing, Thomas said she hadn’t followed any of that news. She believed there was fraud and declined to consider anything that ran counter to her conclusion. It’s not logical, it’s ideological.

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Exactly. I have an ongoing “discussion” with a MAGA friend. He continues to provide the off the wall conspiracy nonsense as proof.

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Secretary Austin had a prostate cancer procedure on Christmas Day(?) and subsequently ended up in the ICU. Covid ? Whatever ! Men do not like to talk about their prostate problems because it involves a very precious part of their anatomy but Gen. Austin’s desire for privacy went a bit too far.

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Can you tell me why the medical issue of a cabinet secretary - not the president or vice-president - is national news? Maybe I'm obtuse, but I think Austin is entitled to his privacy.

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I don’t think it should be national news. Certainly the initial procedure was private but when Sec. Austin entered the ICU the President should have been informed.

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It's national news because the oligarchs want it to be. It distracts, like bread and circuses.

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Dave, my feeling is that they are unhappy with themselves and are angry that just being white doesn't always mean they get privileges. For years they have been stomping around about the godless, minorities, immigrants, women, and people who are not heterosexual. Now they have someone who speaks their language. The women who support him have supported all this too.

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Yes, Michelle. Many MAGAs are very angry about their lot in life. IMO, they have reason to be, as public policies have squeezed the middle class and decimated working class people and the poor. I believe their anger is misguided on the economic front. But there is more to it than that. We used to have a sense of community and the common good. It certainly wasn’t perfect or broadly inclusive. There were plenty of prejudices and a degree of tribalism. But now we’ve devolved into outright hatred and divisiveness, backed by “leaders” who openly advocate violence and retribution or, worse yet, say nothing because they think being re-elected is the only goal. Because of all this, regardless the outcome of the election, there will be violence, just like in the countries Trump infamously ridiculed.

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Agree.

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Fear and hate SELLS. Far more effective than expecting critical thinking.

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Is critical thinking the same as critical race theory? Shouldn't it be banned? /S

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Gary, I think it was banned long ago.

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Damn right it should be banned! Exactly like Arabic numbers, dammit! /S

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Exactly? Ooh, sounds too much like mathematics to be safe.

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As I have written before TFG et. al. operate based on a quote directly from TFG himself: "People will just believe you. You just tell them and they believe you." That rare bit of truth from TFG explaines how it is that he can say to idiotic things he says. He knows his cultists will swallow any nonsense he utters.

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The followers don't really need to listen or hear. They only need to raise their salutes.

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Yep. As I have written before: he teaches them that's is perfectly ok to be an asshole just like him, that's why he is their hero. And once you reach "hero-dom" in such a group, you can say everything and nothing will ever be questioned.

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....and still his followers follow him. I just don't get it. Thanks for the humorous note.

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Trumps lawyer could easily have had a role on Monty Python.

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Not smart enough for the Sartre scenes in Holy Grail.

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Who is this who is so wise in the ways of science?

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Speaking of humorous things, yesterday Jamie Dimon was interviewed by Marie Barteloma

https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/markets/us-economy-starting-to-look-more-like-the-1970s-jpmorgan-chases-jamie-dimon-says/ar-AA1mHAEl

He went full Elon Musk in the interview. What a hack.

Also humorous was TFFG's answer to 'How do magnet's work?"

He said, "... I know that if you drop a magnet in water it will no longer work."

Again, with the misinformation. That is completely false.

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Jan 10·edited Jan 10

He is proud of his ignorance, he is evolution in reverse, as are ALL MAGAts. As to Dimon, he is not ignorant, just a both sides expert with zero integrity.

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Thanks for the laughs, Gary.The fact that Jamie Dimon was interviewed by Bartaromo was humorous enough.➡️ https://www.vanityfair.com/news/fox-anchor-biden-economy-stronger-than-anybody-understands

Guillermo on Jimmy Kimmel( ~11:45) discredits Trump’s magnet theory.😂

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HztDXBW8kmQ

Also 💙 Dr. Heather’s sense of humor.

“A president could be impeached simply for watching TV all day, which is not a crime but which would make it impossible to do the job.”

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I caught that tv reference as well. LOL

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What sticks to a refrigerator?

Magnets.

What also sticks to a refrigerator?

Glue

What article of clothing is made with glue?

Shoes.

If a hat goes on top, a shoe goes...

SO IF IT STICKS TO THE BOTTOM OF YOUR SHOE, IT'S TRUMP!

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TFG I get and use but what is TFFG?

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Singin' in the rain. Moses supposes his toeses are roses but Moses supposes erroneously. But Big Mouth Ass knowses, he doesn't supposes, so that's very different. Never mind.

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It's just so sad! So very sad.

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Why, oh why, do Christian evangelicals so passionately support such a fallen "angel" as Donald Trump, a man so marred that no father would welcome him as a son-in-law? The answer seems to be that MAGA (Make America Great Again) is code for KKK. If you read Timothy Egan's brilliant book, "A Fever in the Heartland" about the rise of the KKK in the Midwest in the 1920's and the study by the two Univ. of Kansas professors, "The Anger Games: Who Voted for Donald Trump in the 2016 Election, and Why?" I think that you'll conclude that the "Christian" evangelicals are racist to the core and want a white Protestant theocracy here in the U.S. , what the KKK advocated when it was "in the open." Also of use, Eric Hoffer's "The True Believer; Thoughts on the Psychology of Mass Movements."

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In terms of politics, Evangelicals and Catholics voting for Trump is an effective strategy. In terms of ostensible religious virtues it's an anathema.

Voting for Trump gave racist right wing religious extremists the Supreme Court.

From the Holy Roman Empire

to Oliver Cromwell, there is precedent for taking power taking priority over

true piety. Leonard Leo - here's looking at you.

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Yes, you are correct, it is politics over morals. Some (many) would say that it is the rational exercise of power, and it is, their alleged values be damned.

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Politics can be ethical in and of itself and in its goals.

Power- by -any -means piety influencers like Charles Koch bagman Leonard Leo assert that theirs are. They do not hold up to scrutiny - on the basis of logic, reason, accuracy, precedent, interpretation, or interpretive strategies etc for civic or religious law.

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"That is the issue that will continue in this country when these poor tongues of Judge Douglas and myself shall be silent. It is the eternal struggle between these two principles -- right and wrong -- throughout the world. They are the two principles that have stood face to face from the beginning of time, and will ever continue to struggle. The one is the common right of humanity and the other the divine right of kings." - Lincoln

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What does the word rational mean in that phrase? William Blake calls it the ratio of the five senses as a starting point. In the phrase 'rational use of power' one could as easily substitute the word ruthless and arrive at just the same meaning, or lack of it.

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In the end, it's all about power; and domination.

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His devoted followers hate minorities, migrants, LGBT rights, abortion rights, taxes on the wealthy, isolation from other countries, any interference by the government (although I imagine most of them get Medicare and Medicad). They are in favor of banning books that they deem unacceptable for their small-minded thinking, they are fearful of anyone or anything they perceive as different or challenging to their way of life.

That many claims to be "christians" is inane and insane.

I've just become aware of the

Sovereign citizen movement. These "citizens" believe they are not under the jurisdiction of the federal government and consider themselves e empty from US law

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Sorry, hit post before I finished. I was saying that these people feel they are exemp from the law.

They use a variety of conspiracy theories and falsehoods to justify their beliefs and activities, some of which are violent and illegal."

Sounds like someone we know?

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It does, Pam. How, though, can anyone know what oligarchs believe, as opposed to what distracting obscenities they impose? We can't know. The difference between true and false cannot be discerned from a fire hose.

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Les, truth and lies. Will the truth win out?

Peoples' perceptions are their truths, so I'm not holding out much hope. Trump supporters' perceptions are lies being seen as truth.

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Basically, by nature or training are some degree of malignant narcissist who tell themselves that that they are so superior to others, that they are unaccountable and have the inherent right to tell everyone other what to do. Even decide if they if they should live or die. The mindset of the Spanish Inquisition, or of slavery.

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Pam, the case can be made that our school systems have failed to teach critical thinking skills, though even those who are highly educated will "believe what they want to believe," facts be damned. Francis Collins, M.D., Ph.D. comes to mind. He knows all about DNA and how all living things on earth have the same DNA, pointing inextricably to a common origin going back 3.5 billion years, yet he is a fundamentalist Christian.

I met my first "Sovereign Citizen" back in the mid-1960's when I was in college.

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Richard, I love to watch "COPS" and I could not believe the first time i saw one of these entitled people get stopped for a traffic violation.

They refuse to roll down the window, they don't need a license because they're only "traveling" not driving commercially. They always demand the cops' names and badge numbers and ask to see a supervisor.

In the majority of these cases, once they are dragged out of the car because they refuse to get out, the cops usually find crack pipes, needles, all kinds of drugs or open containers of alcohol.

One crazy guy said he would only give his name if he was paid $500.

They say they are above the law.

I think many "sign up" for this movement so they don't have to pay taxes. They expect protection but they don't give anything in return except the rhetoric they spew when stopped for valid traffic violations.

What a world!

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I'm laughing at this, it is so ridiculous. They look normal from the outside, but inside they are living in an alternate universe.

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Try being the cop contacting one of these "travelers". The garbage they produce in court to "prove" their "status" is incredible. It did give me a fabulous training exercise for one of my recruits who wrote one of those cites. He figured out that under Oregon law, they were basing their philosophy on the first regulations of interstate commerce by motor vehicles, established in (IIRC) 1932 and superseded many times since. He came all prepared to argue his case, and the Municipal Court Judge (we had night court once a month) had not only been down that road, he had chapter and verse to eviscerate the "traveller".

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Empowering critical thinking is a tough row to hoe. It means giving up a degree of control. They will think outside the (multiple choice) box and color outside the lines. Tell kids to question everything and they'll question YOU.

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J L, you write: " Tell kids to question everything and they'll question YOU." THAT is an excellent start.

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I notice a divide between "Christians" that promote humility and compassion and another distinct group that peddle hubris, hatred, and absolute power. One of these things is not like the other.

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I believe the majority of the house gop hold white supremacy beliefs. Trump took the quiet voice in people’s heads and made it ok to speak it out loud. He is delusional and spews nothing but hate. He destroyed this country’s reputation across the world and the spineless house republicans stood by in silence. They are complicit in all and many of them should be in jail themselves. The path we are on is so completely frightening. Although I appreciate the voices in this forum, I do not share the same hope and optimism. With the occasional exception there are thoughtful and considered various points of view that give food for thought every day.

The legal process is slow and wavering about making decisions because of precedent. Reality should be the overriding guidance here to throw the orange f**ker in jail.

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And then you've got opportunists like Congresswoman Elise Stefanik who refuses to say whether she would certify results of the presidential election., and refers to the Jan. 6th insurrectionists as "hostages." <eye roll> You're absolutely right, Christine. She and other House Republicans are complicit.

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It's rampant throughout the Midwest.

Medieval thinking.

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It is Medieval, isn't it? A complete lack of the application of scientific and rational thought and reasoning. Again, I put some of the blame on our schools. We should start teaching analytical tools as early as the 6th grade. Teach things such as confirmation bias and narrative fallacy, i.e., the tendency to create a story with cause-and-effect explanations out of random details and events.

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The lack of such curriculum can be traced back to the Reagan administration, and has been fine-tuned by "No Child Left Behind" which is really "All Children Left Behind".

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One of the most difficult courses I had while working on a masters in history was a “reading statistics” course. We had to learn to interpret statistics without math, logically, because of course statistics can be used to justify most arguments.

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Everyone should know the how and why of interpreting statistics. You don't need to know how to run them, just how and why they work, and what qualifies as a worthwhile statistical result. How nad when they matter, such as in a pandemic.

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We absolutely should, but the political pressure against doing so is enormous. It's driven a lot of teachers out of the profession. This from the 2012 Platform of the Republican Party of Texas:

"Knowledge-Based Education – We oppose the teaching of Higher Order Thinking Skills (HOTS) (values clarification), critical thinking skills and similar programs that are simply a relabeling of Outcome-Based Education (OBE) (mastery learning) which focus on behavior modification and have the purpose of challenging the student’s fixed beliefs and undermining parental authority. "

Got to fix those fixed ideas. Life was sweet back in the caves.

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WTF??? Now I see the crazy plan and the results. I wonder who wrote that?

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OMG!! Texas, where I grew up and went through the public school system,, is now hell bent on indoctrination instead of teaching students how to think, how to learn. It's the American Taliban in action. Houston, we've got a really, really serious problem. Unbelievable. I knew that there was a reason why when I left Texas for the U.S Army in 1960 and spent two years at the Army Language School in Monterey, California learning Chinese I never had a desire to return to Texas. This is a very serious threat to democracy.

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God sent him. Just ask him.

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When his followers claim that his prosecution is theirs I wish reporters would just ask them "so you broke the law as well?"

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Cult devotion. Non-cultists will never get it. Neither will stupid.

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I suspect they aren't listening to the audio transcript of this hearing...

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Lex, In my view, your comment attests to the urgency of the three-judge D.C. Circuit Court panel not only denying Trump’s immunity claims but also lifting the stay presently blocking 1/6 pre-trial proceedings from resuming. Were the stay lifted, Trump would have no choice but immediately to file an appeal with the Supreme Court and to seek an expedited ruling.

Here I would add that the judiciary, in my view, is obligated to enlist every means possible to block any tactical delay aimed at denying the public a verdict that could affect how they vote in a presidential, or any other, election.

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I absolutely agree with you. I just don't know how likely that is. That said, MSNBC analyst Andrew Weissman said yesterday that he expects the appeals court to rule on immunity within a week or two. I think that ruling gets appealed to SCOTUS either way, and I'm sure the high court's conservatives will be happy to drag their feet to benefit Orange Boy.

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Lex, I would note, were the three D.C. Circuit Court judges to rule against Trump but not lift the 1/6 stay, Trump would have no reason to seek an expedited ruling from the Supreme Court and, instead, would file an appeal to the full Circuit Court bench, further delaying a final ruling and likely delaying a trial until after the election.

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Now all we need is a "dead" former president perp-walking.

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Yes. The complete audio is here https://open.spotify.com/episode/4lqDeHrRlt2m63HY6MbkRg?si=i9ca5fnpRh6JybhRZ4eqCA

His voice made me nuts, and he did get more hysterical as time went on.

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And here direct from the courts website as well:

https://www.cadc.uscourts.gov/recordings/recordings.nsf/

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They should throw these clowns in jail for abusing the legal system with foolishness. There only purpose is to delay justice. It’s obvious they have no defense. The courts treat them as if they deserve respect. They are terrorists.

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You can hear the audio of the DC Circuit appeal here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KFppEuJRTO4

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"The time has come, the Justice said, to ponder many things:

Like why the sea is boiling hot, and whether pigs have wings...."

The Supreme Court demeans itself by giving this matter consideration.

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And the voice of the lawyer...........has he been talking too much or is that a normal noise?

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I think it's his normal voice, aggravated by the fact that he was getting killed and knew it.

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Listening to the hearing was so bizarre.

Finally, one of the judges referenced the oath the President takes -- "I think it's paradoxical to say that his constitutional duty to take care that the laws be faithfully executed allows him to violate criminal law." Talk about stating the obvious

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Yeah, that was Judge Henderson. She basically got Sauer to admit that she was right, too.

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She is the elder of that court. Seventy-nine years old and was first appointed by Reagan, the H.W. Bush put her on the DC Appellate Court. She kicked ass with that statement.

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She did in fact. Coincidentally, there was a U.S. bankruptcy judge in South Carolina named Karen Henderson at the same time this Karen Henderson was a U.S. District Court judge in South Carolina. I sat in the bankruptcy judge's court a couple of times while covering the bankruptcy of the PTL television ministry in the late 1980s.

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Oh myyy...that had to be very interesting!

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The criminal trial was more interesting. The government did a really good job of showing how deep was Jim Bakker's intention of taking as much money as he could for himself, even as the ministry was going bankrupt. (It would have had to file bankruptcy in 1987 even if Bakker's affair hadn't been discovered and he hadn't resigned.) The bankruptcy case was just sad. I think the people whose money the Bakkers stole ended up getting maybe 7 cents on the dollar. I felt so badly for them.

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Any decision that helps Trump in any way is helping the destruction of our ideals and the rule of law. We could become a nation run by warring oligarchs.

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Nasty, brutish and trumped.

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Which is to say "f***ed.

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Lan-we’re already a nation being run by warring oligarchs…

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True, Citizen60, but it bears repeating ad nauseam .

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If Trump’s lawyers are right, then Biden should simply declare Trump a “threat to the Constitution of the United States of America” and order the FBI to arrest and imprison him until each trial begins and lock him up after each trial concludes. I love contemplating the irony of throwing Trump’s sh*t right back in his face even if it never happens.

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Biden can send him to Russia and deny reentry.

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I'm sure Trump has considered his options, and I believe he has fond memories of Moscow.

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perhaps the FAA should simply revoke landing rights on his 767, except outbound to islands like Cuba. Interestingly, the US Federal Government maintains a very secure "resort" right next to the beach in Cuba; I'm sure they would be happy to prepare a suite for him. People say the law doesn't even reach that locale.

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Or send him further east to Siberia where it's 45 below zero now, nice and comfy without any heat source in a pup tent.

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He'd have to wear one of those commie berets to keep his noggin warm.

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Oh yes, it would serve him right. Putin could have some of his thugs to keep an eye on him.

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McConnell, Bannon, the senators who voted to overturn the election, and many of Trumps key advisors like Jarad, Steve Miller etc., should go anole with him

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In another lifetime, Trump could find himself grateful that Biden is such a graceful and reasonable man.

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A judge should ask that question. Could you imagine the look on the orange face? He would turn so white his makeup would melt.

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Nah Rickey, he'd likely get his lawyers to argue that it was because of their "enabling" and supporting his actions that he got so far outside legal bounds and THEY should be the ones to be prosecuted and jailed.

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Yeph, always the victim.

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I sincerely hope that if this court or the Supreme Court finds Trump has presidential immunity that Biden does that immediately. Arrests Trump and send him to Russia, revoking his citizenship and passport, and puting him on a no fly list. Then I hope Biden refuses to leave office and then finds a way to fix the Supreme Court.

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Don’t forget to fire 3 SC judges in the same rant. Immunity is so powerful. Laws be damned! (My snide comment).

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Jan 10·edited Jan 10

The possible scenarios that Jack Smith cited, as well as some posed by the judges, cemented the outrageousness of Trump’s immunity claim.

He’s toast — and knows it. His every utterance is more outlandish than the last. The courts, including the Supreme Court, won’t save him.

But how far will the cult go to protect him?

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"He's toast and he knows it" will get me through another day of this insanity. But the surreally, outrageously corrupt Supreme Court is the monster under my bed.

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Totally agree. When it becomes possible to add to the court it must be the first order of business. I always worry dems will not react with speed as have Republicans.

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The monster under the bed that keeps on giving...to oligarchs and businesses.

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Frankom, I am so conflicted about adding to the court (I mean adding seats to the court). I don't think it's a question of reacting with speed. McConnell just rammed candidates onto the bench in total contradiction to anything he ever said. Democrats are not willing to be as ruthlessly sociopathic, and that's a good thing. But we need to do SOMETHING different that is also not, you know—evil.

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Oh, the Supreme Court will definit rule in Trump’s favour. They are bought and sold… And if the American people become outraged because of their decision and start protesting in the streets, Roberts and Alito will simply whine that they feel “threatened “….

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I rather expect they'll find a way to dodge the question, either leaving the appellate court to take the heat, or leaving the issue unresolved and thus defaulting to the people to sit in judgement on Ex45.

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I agree....they are already in a box with no exit with Colorado. They just settled several cases using the States rights argument. It will be interesting to see how committed they are to states rights now!

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I'm pretty sure the ridiculousness of it all is why the Supreme Court chose not to take it up and have to be embarrassed for supporting right wing ideology.

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Hm, I thought they were past that stage and have no feelings of guilt about that anymore...

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I think you're right Dutch. Remorse or guilt is not on their radar. They moved that goal post when they took the bribes.

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Agreed. That is why we must add justices.

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Yeah, definitely. I can't understand why Biden didn't pull the same trick as Moscow Mitch and simply stacked the Supreme Court with liberal justices... There's no set limit to the number of Justices, right?

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Jan 10·edited Jan 10

Mr. Fulkerson, I very much doubt any of the right wing Justices of the Supreme Court even have the capacity for embarrassment. Certainly none of them have offered any evidence of having enough moral character or conscience to feel embarrassment.

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Trump's team's preposterous arguments are making it all the harder for the Robert's court to wink at him and get away with it. Maybe Cannon?

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And how long will all this take?! A little pretrial detention might focus some apparently weak, "cult"ivated minds.

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They will use their “guns”.

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They might. But the hundreds of criminal convictions of insurrectionists and long prison sentences are a deterrent. Enough of one? Stay tuned.

My guess is that Trump will melt down mentally and physically well before the election. And he will increasingly look like the loser he is - his crooked business and freedom will disappear.

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He is looking puffy and unwell, is more inarticulate than ever and may be fuming over the viral "eau de trump" talk. Michael, I think your guess could be right and a meltdown (asap) would hopefully take us in the right direction.

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Trump has come a very long way just by being a brazen liar, but they seem to be stretching even wilful suspension of disbelief increasingly thin.

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J L, what a wonderful contrast of concepts, the "willing suspension of disbelief" of literature and theatre and tRump's particular brand of theatrics! Kinda like Judge Henderson's quote ""I think it's paradoxical to say that his constitutional duty to take care that the laws be faithfully executed allows him to violate criminal law."

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“We don’t take an oath to a king, or queen, or tyrant or a dictator, and we don’t take an oath to a wannabe dictator." - Gen. Milley

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Wouldn't it be the height of irony if malodor were to do him in politically? He goes to such lengths to polish his image. It would suggest that hundreds, even thousands of people have been "too polite" to mention "eau de Trump" up to this point. He certainly didn't develop disguising scents in any fraudulant business, like college, steak, etc. Maybe he should have...

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Sally Jenks Roth, my first thought of the day is, "Is he dead yet?

And no. I'm not sorry.

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I say the same and tell my husband if I'm struck by lightening, that's why. We laugh, need to laugh sometimes. I am boosted by working with wonderful people at the Civics Center on youth voter registration, have volunteered to work at our polling place and any way I can on Climate. I'm also in touch with our wonderful Sec. of State and they are ready if it looks possible to take him off our ballots. If you get a chance (or maybe you already have) listed to Heather's first Politics chat of 2024 yesterday on FB: https://www.facebook.com/heathercoxrichardson

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It doesn’t seem to bother the magas. With the “get over it” and “move forward” remarks, they point out all the obsequious platitudes that tumbled out instead.

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His battery is already on low.....

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Here's hoping the Grim Reaper is coming for DJT very soon. What a great day that will be to see him gone for good. I am beyond sick and tired of the Orange jackass.

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So.... President Haley then?

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OMG. NO.

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Arguably worse than Trump because she is not as obviously vicious and unhinged. I wouldn't trust her any farther than I could throw her.

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With you 100%. Ms. Haley is a ideological reactionary. She is also a weathervane, constantly checking the direction of the "prevailing winds" and adjusting her rhetoric accordingly.

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She missed out on the cause of the Civil War.

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She would be a female DJT, but not quite as ugly.

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Not a chance.

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Jan 10·edited Jan 10

Brad Mehldau, the amazing Jazz pianist, has a great song on this, with words + synthesizer (yes he does go there as well as piano generally). The words are "They have guns, and they are not for hunting." It is on the "Finding Gabriel" album, and the song is "The Prophet Is a Fool", referring to Chump!

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