1- Netanyahu is a Trump, brutal and afraid of retribution. Very dangerous.
2- Lisa's views (and that agressive sub thread below) are symptoms of how the anti US trolling proaganda is effective and reaching right into the heart of liberal democrats. They are actually managing to turn a tide.
1- Netanyahu is a Trump, brutal and afraid of retribution. Very dangerous.
2- Lisa's views (and that agressive sub thread below) are symptoms of how the anti US trolling proaganda is effective and reaching right into the heart of liberal democrats. They are actually managing to turn a tide.
No, that's not true. I have read many different sources and watched videos of what is happening. I support Ukraine. I despise Putin and all murderous dictators everywhere. This is about ending the horror. The US is guilty of many attacks (Iraq, for one) and coups (Chile, for one), but I still want to save our democracy. And the fact is that the majority of liberal boomers continue to agree with whatever Israel says.
Agree absolutely. I'm a grown-up and grown-ups have to make hard choices. It's harder for young folks to see that. It's extremely unfortunate that this occurred now before the election. The US is hanging by a thread. I like to tell myself we're a bit protected living in California. It's all just so cruel, stupid, short-sighted. Humans crazed with greed. We don't deserve this precious earth and all its beautiful nonhuman inhabitants suffering because of us.
Texas is in the grip of governmental insanity. Hope we donтАЩt go national. They have stacked the deck (like all despots do) so very hard to vote out. Appreciate CA. Many CA idiots have moved here. Wish I could come there. BTW, I donтАЩt think itтАЩs an accident that this occurred before the election. Money moves mountains. Or maybe IтАЩm permanently suspicious.
No accident, when W/Dickie were cheated in, they smelled blood. They circled Obama, now they circle Biden. Sniping, roiling the waters, coordinating, learning from mistakes. ItтАЩs not a drill, Dems
"There are neo-Nazi pogroms against the Roma, rampant attacks on feminists and LGBT groups, book bans, and state-sponsored glorification of Nazi collaborators.
"These stories of UkraineтАЩs dark nationalism arenтАЩt coming out of Moscow; theyтАЩre being filed by Western media, including US-funded Radio Free Europe (RFE); Jewish organizations such as the World Jewish Congress and the Simon Wiesenthal Center; and watchdogs like Amnesty International, Human Rights Watch, and Freedom House, which issued a joint report warning that Kiev is losing the monopoly on the use of force in the country as far-right gangs operate with impunity."
In Ukraine, the far right (including overt neo-Nazis) was put in charge of the police stations. Zelensky shut down all the opposition parties and seized their TV stations, so the only news we get out of Ukraine is heavily-censored propaganda.
"Far-right groups have also gained political currency in the past decade, none more chilling than Svoboda (formerly the Social National Party of Ukraine), whose leader claimed the country was controlled by a тАЬMuscovite-Jewish mafiaтАЭ and whose deputy used an antisemitic slur to describe Ukrainian-born Jewish actor Mila Kunis. Svoboda has sent several members to UkraineтАЩs Parliament, including one who called the Holocaust a тАЬbright periodтАЭ in human history, according to Foreign Policy."
--- ---
The leader of far-right Svoboda was Arsen Avakov. I remember, after the Maiden Revolution, horrified speculation that Avakov would become the new Prime Minister. He got the Interior Ministry instead, in charge of the police.
Yes there are neo-nazis in Ukraine and half the US Congress are closer in belief to Nazis than to a free democracy. We struggle against them, as do they.
It REALLY makes me sick!! So many people are easily influenced, persuaded, and can be so easily brainwashed. By conspiracy theories and alternative realities.
Honestly? The die-hard anti-war anti-Israel progressives remind me of nothing more in terms of rhetoric than the anti-abortion warriors. I mean OBVIOUSLY they have more of a leg to stand on, since in this case actual alive children are actually being killed, which in any working moral system is reprehensible. But...
Read the comments here today. Look at the rhetoric. How impassioned and righteous and florid it is. Look at how quick they are to pull out the most incendiary language possible, to so quickly label a perpetrator, assign every possible bad intent, proclaim they have religiously "seen the truth," and how everyone who doesn't hold their exact level of nuance-free disgust must be damnable and heartless...
Will, youтАЩre right about the contempt and disgustтАФthatтАЩs why IтАЩm trying to get my friends from both sides of the aisle to read тАЬBeyond ContemptтАЭ. ItтАЩs far too easy to attack someone who agrees with us 90% because they donтАЩt agree 100%.
WeтАЩve been taught for too long to debate with a scorched-earth philosophy when the differences are not great instead of saving that level of fight for the big stuff.
Yes, Mary. Coalition-building and coalition-keeping needs to be our North Star. Many people were awakened into action post-2016 and started taking clearer moral lines about what our values were and what we were not willing to silently accept. That has been a good thing in my opinion, but too many people have adopted a Down with Oppression/Colonialism/Capitalist/Patriarchy!!! mindset - or something close to it - to feel good about themselves, and are finding that it just doesn't work when applied to notably complex situations. It is easy and necessary to take a clear line against MAGA or any number of American domestic issues, because they are so off-the-charts insane and dangerous and by their very nature destroy nuance anyway. Applying this lens to a stubbornly cyclical and entrenched problem of violence in the Middle East? Not so much.
YouтАЩre wrong. Just like the New York Times, another liberal-worshipped media outlet spewing American government propaganda and lies. You are being sell-righteous in your own fallacious attack on those horrified by a genocide. Not a good place to be. Own that. Watch the video below, which will explain why you are wrong, using just one, of many, examples of propaganda in defense of genocide.
Two thoughts on this sub thread.
1- Netanyahu is a Trump, brutal and afraid of retribution. Very dangerous.
2- Lisa's views (and that agressive sub thread below) are symptoms of how the anti US trolling proaganda is effective and reaching right into the heart of liberal democrats. They are actually managing to turn a tide.
No, that's not true. I have read many different sources and watched videos of what is happening. I support Ukraine. I despise Putin and all murderous dictators everywhere. This is about ending the horror. The US is guilty of many attacks (Iraq, for one) and coups (Chile, for one), but I still want to save our democracy. And the fact is that the majority of liberal boomers continue to agree with whatever Israel says.
You have a point, we are guilty of so much. There is so much horror, imagine worse if chump wins. ThatтАЩs all my empathy-laden psyche can manage.
Agree absolutely. I'm a grown-up and grown-ups have to make hard choices. It's harder for young folks to see that. It's extremely unfortunate that this occurred now before the election. The US is hanging by a thread. I like to tell myself we're a bit protected living in California. It's all just so cruel, stupid, short-sighted. Humans crazed with greed. We don't deserve this precious earth and all its beautiful nonhuman inhabitants suffering because of us.
Texas is in the grip of governmental insanity. Hope we donтАЩt go national. They have stacked the deck (like all despots do) so very hard to vote out. Appreciate CA. Many CA idiots have moved here. Wish I could come there. BTW, I donтАЩt think itтАЩs an accident that this occurred before the election. Money moves mountains. Or maybe IтАЩm permanently suspicious.
God, Texas and Gov. Abbott. So sorry you're there. I suspect it's no accident either that this is happening now.
No accident, when W/Dickie were cheated in, they smelled blood. They circled Obama, now they circle Biden. Sniping, roiling the waters, coordinating, learning from mistakes. ItтАЩs not a drill, Dems
I hope you also despise Ukraine's thuggish far-right terror regime.
I don't believe that at all. Guess you're a Putin believer.
I suppose we could share facts and sources:
"There are neo-Nazi pogroms against the Roma, rampant attacks on feminists and LGBT groups, book bans, and state-sponsored glorification of Nazi collaborators.
"These stories of UkraineтАЩs dark nationalism arenтАЩt coming out of Moscow; theyтАЩre being filed by Western media, including US-funded Radio Free Europe (RFE); Jewish organizations such as the World Jewish Congress and the Simon Wiesenthal Center; and watchdogs like Amnesty International, Human Rights Watch, and Freedom House, which issued a joint report warning that Kiev is losing the monopoly on the use of force in the country as far-right gangs operate with impunity."
https://www.thenation.com/article/politics/neo-nazis-far-right-ukraine/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Far-right_politics_in_Ukraine
Guess who else has a neo-nazi problem?
In Ukraine, the far right (including overt neo-Nazis) was put in charge of the police stations. Zelensky shut down all the opposition parties and seized their TV stations, so the only news we get out of Ukraine is heavily-censored propaganda.
https://internationalviewpoint.org/spip.php?article7982
That's actually a useful article with food for thought.
https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opinion/ukraine-has-nazi-problem-vladimir-putin-s-denazification-claim-war-ncna1290946
Quoting from the article you linked:
"Far-right groups have also gained political currency in the past decade, none more chilling than Svoboda (formerly the Social National Party of Ukraine), whose leader claimed the country was controlled by a тАЬMuscovite-Jewish mafiaтАЭ and whose deputy used an antisemitic slur to describe Ukrainian-born Jewish actor Mila Kunis. Svoboda has sent several members to UkraineтАЩs Parliament, including one who called the Holocaust a тАЬbright periodтАЭ in human history, according to Foreign Policy."
--- ---
The leader of far-right Svoboda was Arsen Avakov. I remember, after the Maiden Revolution, horrified speculation that Avakov would become the new Prime Minister. He got the Interior Ministry instead, in charge of the police.
Do they pay you well Schmeekle?
Christopher, I hope not
...said the apologist for neo-Nazis
Yes there are neo-nazis in Ukraine and half the US Congress are closer in belief to Nazis than to a free democracy. We struggle against them, as do they.
Hahahahaha
It REALLY makes me sick!! So many people are easily influenced, persuaded, and can be so easily brainwashed. By conspiracy theories and alternative realities.
Honestly? The die-hard anti-war anti-Israel progressives remind me of nothing more in terms of rhetoric than the anti-abortion warriors. I mean OBVIOUSLY they have more of a leg to stand on, since in this case actual alive children are actually being killed, which in any working moral system is reprehensible. But...
Read the comments here today. Look at the rhetoric. How impassioned and righteous and florid it is. Look at how quick they are to pull out the most incendiary language possible, to so quickly label a perpetrator, assign every possible bad intent, proclaim they have religiously "seen the truth," and how everyone who doesn't hold their exact level of nuance-free disgust must be damnable and heartless...
I'm waiting for someone to tell me I'm wrong...
Will, youтАЩre right about the contempt and disgustтАФthatтАЩs why IтАЩm trying to get my friends from both sides of the aisle to read тАЬBeyond ContemptтАЭ. ItтАЩs far too easy to attack someone who agrees with us 90% because they donтАЩt agree 100%.
WeтАЩve been taught for too long to debate with a scorched-earth philosophy when the differences are not great instead of saving that level of fight for the big stuff.
Yes, Mary. Coalition-building and coalition-keeping needs to be our North Star. Many people were awakened into action post-2016 and started taking clearer moral lines about what our values were and what we were not willing to silently accept. That has been a good thing in my opinion, but too many people have adopted a Down with Oppression/Colonialism/Capitalist/Patriarchy!!! mindset - or something close to it - to feel good about themselves, and are finding that it just doesn't work when applied to notably complex situations. It is easy and necessary to take a clear line against MAGA or any number of American domestic issues, because they are so off-the-charts insane and dangerous and by their very nature destroy nuance anyway. Applying this lens to a stubbornly cyclical and entrenched problem of violence in the Middle East? Not so much.
Will, once again, youтАЩve said it so very well. Thank you.
Will, 7 hours in, and only one comment telling you you're wrong.
There is no "winning" here.
And that one comment from our resident contrarian.
YouтАЩre wrong. Just like the New York Times, another liberal-worshipped media outlet spewing American government propaganda and lies. You are being sell-righteous in your own fallacious attack on those horrified by a genocide. Not a good place to be. Own that. Watch the video below, which will explain why you are wrong, using just one, of many, examples of propaganda in defense of genocide.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OcvVL3YTvOg&t=11s
HAHAHAHAHAHA. Sounds like тАЬthey did their own researchтАЭ.
This.