This is a helpful and long overdue clarification of "socialism," a term loosely bandied about by so many but understood by so few. Its use seems especially rampant by people whose only point of reference are the old communist models of Russia and China.
I think part HCR's comment isn't exactly correct. As a social theory, socialism posi…
This is a helpful and long overdue clarification of "socialism," a term loosely bandied about by so many but understood by so few. Its use seems especially rampant by people whose only point of reference are the old communist models of Russia and China.
I think part HCR's comment isn't exactly correct. As a social theory, socialism posits that a collective cooperation of citizens will make all governmental institutions public. Yet as practiced in Denmark, Sweden, or India for example, private ownership exists in tandem with an emphasis on individual liberties, and collective cooperation is manifested in accessible and "free" health care, education, family leave, as well as those things that also exist in the US - public highways, libraries, and police and fire services, to name a few.
What's not so "free" is that income taxes are typically higher but they are offset, in part, by lower out of pocket expenses than we have here.
While both Socialism and Communism utilize some version of centralized planning, communism is the model where "property and economic resources are owned and controlled by the state (rather than individual citizens)."
HCR's conclusion, however, is accurate whether living in a capitalist or socialist state - popular public policies which cost tax dollars and supported through progressive tax systems, where wealthier people have to help pay for programs that would everyone - is what chaps the asses of not only the 1% but of politicians who cater to those not particularly interested in the welfare of others so long as "they got theirs."
What we fail to realize is that "the efficiencies of the market" are designed to optimize profit when demand opportunities exist, but assume that 1) everyone has the means to purchase or not purchase as they like, or 2) if they don't have the means, that's their problem. In biblical terms, capitalism is equivalent to "I'm not my brother's keeper."
Look, I'd love to optimize my own life choices whenever and wherever possible. At one time I could. Cancer took away several years of "economic opportunity" from me and now it's harder to do so. Cancer wasn't my "fault" nor was the inability to work for some time. I'm not asking for anything free, but when the GOP was hot on "repeal and replace" of the ACA, in realized that circumstances had changed. When my carrier increased premiums from about $1200/month to $5000/month at the end of the year while I was still in treatment, it was clear I no longer fit the capitalist assumption that everyone can afford to choose or not. I couldn't afford at that point. And despite a diagnosis of "incurable Stage 4 cancer," I saw many people in far worse shape than I. Yet few of the people I know who grouse about socialism would've said "too bad, I guess you'll just have to die."
To me, that's the difference. No one should have to choose between bankruptcy and death, or unemployment vs building skills, or not having access to safety and security services like police and firemen.
If we're so scared of socialism then we cannot allow every industry to operate under a "maximize profits" model. Health care, education, pharmaceutical development, as examples, should be limited to a cost plus model. The government can and should help fund research and basic training and basic health services. Oh, by the way, that's consistent with a democratic socialist model but don't tell anybody.
I am sorry about your health issues, Scott. Your points are an interesting perspective.
I would like to take a stab at this as I have been spouting at trump supporters for 5 years about our socialist democracy to try to help them understand that if they are using a gazillion systems in our society that make our lives easier, safe and healthier for all, they are benefactors of a socialist democracy. It is hardly a dirty word. Whether you are rich or poor or in-between, we all benefit from our particular socialist democracy (which includes capitalism). That may be the rub? We are a beautiful conglomeration of the the peoples of the world, Under One Government. We are also an imperfect operational conglomeration that does not fit "socialist," "communist" or purely "capitalist. This appears difficult to explain to people who use one-word simplifications, on purpose or out of ignorance, because is it easy, useful propaganda, or they have not thought through all the facts. It is possible I am totally off-base. If I am not, then it is crucial that we educate the masses using Facts, thus we must have the Fairness Doctrine back as part of righting this ship. Words and truth are critical in a democracy.
Seems to me the intentions of those who appear to control everything want to maintain a racial caste system and have no interest in their brothers' and sisters' well-being.
Anand Giraharadas, https://the.ink/p/hope has written a great article describing what I have been referring to as "the death screams of the dying patriarchy." He shifts that perspective to what we are witnessing is the mourning or grieving of our white supremacist terrorists. They are mourning their place in the world as we become a more equality-based country. That little shift in perception has helped me to suddenly feel compassion for them in their fear and grief of no longer being superior—just because the color of their skins. We are witnessing their stage of anger. This is a Bingo! moment for me. A palpable sudden shift in my view of them. My compassion for them. (Psst! I may secretly love my hate for their despicable behaviors...so I have to marinate in this new perspective for awhile).
In our Heathersherd group, we were asked to come up with the most important things we could do to enable change right now. There was discussion of being able to talk with trump supporters who do not think like us. I have tried for five years, and, until I read Anand's article last night, I could not even IMAGINE wasting my time with the "cult." To me, white supremacy, nazism, proud boys, q-anon... are all impossible to have rational conversations with, a total waste of time, and are behaving like anti-Americans anti-Constitutionalists. I still think that, but I am suddenly more open to seeing them as sad, sad people fighting and mourning imaginary threats of their way of life. Look behind who has really riled them up...BIG MONEY. That Dark Money is all about power and control. America is actually moving forward and the mourners will not be able to stop the changes a'coming. There are many more of us in colorful forces ratcheting forward and We are the Source of money via our buying power. We need to choose wisely whilst we create this new world: "We the People — ALL of us this time." This includes all those grieving white, angry people. All of us. We need to help them understand that we can all prosper....equally, if given the chance. There is nothing to be afraid of with that vision. They are living in fear anyway. Maybe, let's try something different.
Media, books, films, art are such powerful tools. I believe we MUST utilize those tools, rapidly, so our masses are educated in school and outside of school. The dark films that are so rampant might need new films that are shifts in consciousness and creativity The broadway musical, Hamilton, is a great example of consciousness raising of our people via music, dance and seeing all colors of people as prominent thinkers. I know teens who are reading Chernow's 818 page, book on Hamilton's biography after seeing the broadway show. They are excited and pumped up to learning about America! Lin Manuel Miranda is a historical genius in what he has brought forth during this second, most critical period of America's development and vision. Have I reached 818 pages in this missive, yet?
BTW - I've seen folks blocked by paywalls. I'd like to suggest to the group that your library should have lots of paywall news sources available free - just by signing up with your local library card. Mine allows me access to major magazines and newspapers. Cheers!
Oh, I just wrote a long response to you about the caste system and then it disappeared. Thanks for the article, and let's just say that I totally agree that we have a caste system here...and we all know what color is still at the top! Unfortunately, what many of us are striving for is all colors meeting together, in the middle and thriving by sharing with one another.
Penelope, after I responded to your comment I came across this article in my mail. It speaks to some of the issues I was trying to describe, but not as well as this author does.
That was interesting. I think the media/social media have a lot of responsibility for the rise of DTJ. He is a celebrity/drama queen and sucks the air out of most situations so he is good for selling papers, shocking headlines and operating his so-called "presidency" and misinformation via late-night manic tweets.
I agree-- our internet media/social media has made the world much more complex and subject to soundbites and info that does not allow for much in-depth thinking.
And then add the trolls, bots, phishing, and targeted propaganda. In many ways we are able to connect and share information around the world immediately and in other ways, it is a pox on humanity. And then there are forums like this one where people can respectfully hash out our thoughts, hear interesting viewpoints, ideas and experiences and continue to grow and learn from the host and one another.
Penelope, one of the reasons I like this forum is the thoughtful exchanges that occur. (OTOH, too many commenters begin with some HCR worship. Don't get me wrong - she's fascinating and helps us all through interpretation and provision of historical context. But that's why we're here and we don't need to bow or curtsy before posting!)
In any case, the notion of "class mourning" is an interesting take, and it makes sense if we extrapolate individual emotions to society as a whole. However, going to your point about education, we try to teach kids that you "can't always get what you want" and that we can accomplish more by working together. These are tough lessons and it seems as if they're frequently forgotten as people get older. But while I'd have patience dealing with an individual who was mourning, I have no patience for a collective that, in its death throes, pursues a scorched earth strategy rather than seeking ways to adapt to new circumstances.
I think you're right - education about history and social models and community dynamics is critical, but my sense is that a larger issue is how 24/7 technology has backfired. The internet's promise of global interconnectedness has created an almost Pavlovian need for new information AND for validation of one's ideas. This reduces patience and lends itself to simplification or shorthand representations of complex ideas.
Who wants to go through a point by point comparison between capitalism, socialism, and communism when they can just say "socialism is bad?" Who wants to think about how elements of social models may cross over into other models? So technology and social media platforms enable you to connect with almost anybody as well as only with those who think like you do. 24/7 access also forces media sources to try come up with something new every hour. In practical terms that message saying the same thing in different ways or to add opinion or speculation in order to offer a "twist" that differentiates one source from another.
So you're not off base when you say "it appears difficult to explain to people who use one-word simplifications, on purpose or out of ignorance, because is it easy, useful propaganda, or they have not thought through all the facts." it's just like the entire GOP picking up the term "radical leftist agenda" of the Democrats. Even Bernie Sanders is not a radical leftist. I personally think Elizabeth Warren was the smartest candidate out there, I'm part because she not only spoke about topics but she documented them and she developed plans to show hoped she'd propose implementing those plans. Just because every industrialized nation has some form of universal health care doesn't mean it's wrong or radical, though that's what the GOP would have you believe.
Long story short (too late, I know), but yes, we must help educate people about "facts" but we cannot afford to slow our efforts to undo the damage that Trump has wrought and to address the critical issues of the pandemic and the economy and political polarization and becoming re-engaged with the world at large. We're not moving backwards to accommodate the feelings of one group that doesn't want to play ball.
Sorry for the rant, but thanks for your great reply.
Hi Scott, I just want to reply to your response to my response and then I will look at the link you just sent. I totally do not agree or condone in any way with the scorched earth policy behaviors of these dying patriarchal thugs. I can have compassion for the reason they are upset. Every single person who has committed sedition needs to pay the consequences. Grief is not a get out of jail free card. As I stated somewhere else today: Sedition. Felony. Twenty years.
I may be compassionate, but I do have strong boundaries and high expectations for human behaviors that go beyond the pale. I feel the same about T**p and all his cronies. None of them are above the law. Sedition is sedition, and attempting to overthrow our election is simply sedition. They should be charged accordingly.
(Additionally, every one of them owes our country reparations).
Yes Scott: Democratic Socialism (which is the system in Europe put into place by most of the western European countries sometime between 1945 and 1980) presupposes that humanity is better off if everyone is able to achieve the Four Freedoms FDR talked about (Ironically, on 6 January 1941): Freedom from Fear, Freedom from Want, Freedom of Speech, Freedom of Worship. The Freedoms from Want and from Fear are the issues we are really struggling with and have always done. What is different in Europe is that for the most part, parliamentary systems actually DO represent constituencies because they are based mostly on proportional representation, Center-Right parties (with some grumbling, admittedly) DO embrace--after decades of opposition and attempted privatization--principles like universal healthcare, a livable minimum wage, and affordable housing. But here is the problem: in Scandinavia, especially, where these systems work exceptionally well, with only the occasional hiccup (such as Sweden deciding to go for the "herd immunity" option re: COVID-19, which resulted in thousands of preventable deaths), the culture is quite monolithic. The number of non-white northern Scandinavians is extremely small. When refugees began to be welcomed into the system--especially from Turkey, Greece, Syria, Afghanistan, and Somalia--the Right began to try to legislate against their inclusion into the social safety net all "native" (read white Germanic) Swedes, Norse, and Danes enjoy. Racism is just below the surface. Sexism is not as big a deal, apparently, but I have colleagues in Norway who tell me that it is alive and well--also under the surface.
In order for the USA to adopt Democratic Socialist ideals (AOC advocates for this, and of course Bernie) there has to be a broad consensus that everyone has an equal right to freedom from want. That is unlikely to occur because of the racist embrace of American Exceptionalism that occurs not only on the Right but also on the Left.
The word for the politics that have had so much influence in Scandinavia (albeit less nowadays) is Social Democracy.
But almost all developed countries -- except the United States -- have healthcare systems that provide citizens with a safety net in case of illness which, as we have been seeing, is no respecter of beliefs or class distinctions. Or of Cain's response when God asked him where his brother was...
That said, you use that word Socialism (dirty to ultra-individualist American ears) too freely. Is Canada socialist? Is Switzerland socialist? Is Japan socialist?
Yes! Social Democracies is a term I feel might be accepted by Americans, over time. In contrast to Social Democracies, we have 'Private Greed’ of American capitalism.
As Lakoff remains us, "say what you mean, and mean what you say”, over and over again. The benefits of universal health care in a Social Democracy far outweighs the pain, poverty and suffering from the Private Greed of our profiteering health care system
Gotta take "social" out. Capitalistic Democracy? Isn't that our grand experiment? Democracy will cover workers and their families' education and healthcare, along with infrastructure, and environmental management (trying not to sound threatening to CEOs), freeing up business to focus on business.
Yes, I remember my affinity for Demorcatic Capitalism. We will have many people disagree with us, and so that is to be expected if we are say anything meaningful
Thank you for your clarification. I am a democratic socialist in my understandings, and in my support of messengers like AOC and Bernie Sanders-who has delivered a consistent message since the 60’s. It took me a lifetime, but I’m so far to the left now, I can no longer see the center. Here’s hoping the best for you. 🤞🏻❤️🤍💙
Unfortunately, Bernie did not get out ahead of the term ‘democratic socialist’. So, the term and his values got defined for him. He ought to have ALWAYS described the benefits of a European capitalism with its universal safety net, with specific examples of the taxes people paid, and how they benefited with little debt by individuals and families.
“What we fail to realize is that "the efficiencies of the market" are designed to optimize profit when demand opportunities exist, but assume that 1) everyone has the means to purchase or not purchase as they like, or 2) if they don't have the means, that's their problem.”
Then we have the “essential” workers who are not paid a living wage.
So interesting and alarming that the families with bootstraps refuse to enable those without so that they may pull themselves up as well. The predation of the rich living off the labors of the poor. To me, it’s always about the distribution of wealth. always. And sadly.
Wishing you well, dear sir. May you find bright moments. You have given one to me today.
This is a helpful and long overdue clarification of "socialism," a term loosely bandied about by so many but understood by so few. Its use seems especially rampant by people whose only point of reference are the old communist models of Russia and China.
I think part HCR's comment isn't exactly correct. As a social theory, socialism posits that a collective cooperation of citizens will make all governmental institutions public. Yet as practiced in Denmark, Sweden, or India for example, private ownership exists in tandem with an emphasis on individual liberties, and collective cooperation is manifested in accessible and "free" health care, education, family leave, as well as those things that also exist in the US - public highways, libraries, and police and fire services, to name a few.
What's not so "free" is that income taxes are typically higher but they are offset, in part, by lower out of pocket expenses than we have here.
While both Socialism and Communism utilize some version of centralized planning, communism is the model where "property and economic resources are owned and controlled by the state (rather than individual citizens)."
(https://www.thoughtco.com/difference-between-communism-and-socialism-195448)
HCR's conclusion, however, is accurate whether living in a capitalist or socialist state - popular public policies which cost tax dollars and supported through progressive tax systems, where wealthier people have to help pay for programs that would everyone - is what chaps the asses of not only the 1% but of politicians who cater to those not particularly interested in the welfare of others so long as "they got theirs."
What we fail to realize is that "the efficiencies of the market" are designed to optimize profit when demand opportunities exist, but assume that 1) everyone has the means to purchase or not purchase as they like, or 2) if they don't have the means, that's their problem. In biblical terms, capitalism is equivalent to "I'm not my brother's keeper."
Look, I'd love to optimize my own life choices whenever and wherever possible. At one time I could. Cancer took away several years of "economic opportunity" from me and now it's harder to do so. Cancer wasn't my "fault" nor was the inability to work for some time. I'm not asking for anything free, but when the GOP was hot on "repeal and replace" of the ACA, in realized that circumstances had changed. When my carrier increased premiums from about $1200/month to $5000/month at the end of the year while I was still in treatment, it was clear I no longer fit the capitalist assumption that everyone can afford to choose or not. I couldn't afford at that point. And despite a diagnosis of "incurable Stage 4 cancer," I saw many people in far worse shape than I. Yet few of the people I know who grouse about socialism would've said "too bad, I guess you'll just have to die."
To me, that's the difference. No one should have to choose between bankruptcy and death, or unemployment vs building skills, or not having access to safety and security services like police and firemen.
If we're so scared of socialism then we cannot allow every industry to operate under a "maximize profits" model. Health care, education, pharmaceutical development, as examples, should be limited to a cost plus model. The government can and should help fund research and basic training and basic health services. Oh, by the way, that's consistent with a democratic socialist model but don't tell anybody.
I am sorry about your health issues, Scott. Your points are an interesting perspective.
I would like to take a stab at this as I have been spouting at trump supporters for 5 years about our socialist democracy to try to help them understand that if they are using a gazillion systems in our society that make our lives easier, safe and healthier for all, they are benefactors of a socialist democracy. It is hardly a dirty word. Whether you are rich or poor or in-between, we all benefit from our particular socialist democracy (which includes capitalism). That may be the rub? We are a beautiful conglomeration of the the peoples of the world, Under One Government. We are also an imperfect operational conglomeration that does not fit "socialist," "communist" or purely "capitalist. This appears difficult to explain to people who use one-word simplifications, on purpose or out of ignorance, because is it easy, useful propaganda, or they have not thought through all the facts. It is possible I am totally off-base. If I am not, then it is crucial that we educate the masses using Facts, thus we must have the Fairness Doctrine back as part of righting this ship. Words and truth are critical in a democracy.
Seems to me the intentions of those who appear to control everything want to maintain a racial caste system and have no interest in their brothers' and sisters' well-being.
Anand Giraharadas, https://the.ink/p/hope has written a great article describing what I have been referring to as "the death screams of the dying patriarchy." He shifts that perspective to what we are witnessing is the mourning or grieving of our white supremacist terrorists. They are mourning their place in the world as we become a more equality-based country. That little shift in perception has helped me to suddenly feel compassion for them in their fear and grief of no longer being superior—just because the color of their skins. We are witnessing their stage of anger. This is a Bingo! moment for me. A palpable sudden shift in my view of them. My compassion for them. (Psst! I may secretly love my hate for their despicable behaviors...so I have to marinate in this new perspective for awhile).
In our Heathersherd group, we were asked to come up with the most important things we could do to enable change right now. There was discussion of being able to talk with trump supporters who do not think like us. I have tried for five years, and, until I read Anand's article last night, I could not even IMAGINE wasting my time with the "cult." To me, white supremacy, nazism, proud boys, q-anon... are all impossible to have rational conversations with, a total waste of time, and are behaving like anti-Americans anti-Constitutionalists. I still think that, but I am suddenly more open to seeing them as sad, sad people fighting and mourning imaginary threats of their way of life. Look behind who has really riled them up...BIG MONEY. That Dark Money is all about power and control. America is actually moving forward and the mourners will not be able to stop the changes a'coming. There are many more of us in colorful forces ratcheting forward and We are the Source of money via our buying power. We need to choose wisely whilst we create this new world: "We the People — ALL of us this time." This includes all those grieving white, angry people. All of us. We need to help them understand that we can all prosper....equally, if given the chance. There is nothing to be afraid of with that vision. They are living in fear anyway. Maybe, let's try something different.
Media, books, films, art are such powerful tools. I believe we MUST utilize those tools, rapidly, so our masses are educated in school and outside of school. The dark films that are so rampant might need new films that are shifts in consciousness and creativity The broadway musical, Hamilton, is a great example of consciousness raising of our people via music, dance and seeing all colors of people as prominent thinkers. I know teens who are reading Chernow's 818 page, book on Hamilton's biography after seeing the broadway show. They are excited and pumped up to learning about America! Lin Manuel Miranda is a historical genius in what he has brought forth during this second, most critical period of America's development and vision. Have I reached 818 pages in this missive, yet?
I appreciate your comments as I do all those in this forum. Funny how timing comes into a person's life. This morning I read an article in the Chicago Tribune opinion section. It's an exploration of the American social system that looks a lot like a caste. Here is the link: https://www.chicagotribune.com/columns/dahleen-glanton/ct-glanton-capitol-insurrection-caste-20210111-qfdy3hy3rbeapdm77wmoyc5pmq-story.html
BTW - I've seen folks blocked by paywalls. I'd like to suggest to the group that your library should have lots of paywall news sources available free - just by signing up with your local library card. Mine allows me access to major magazines and newspapers. Cheers!
Oh, I just wrote a long response to you about the caste system and then it disappeared. Thanks for the article, and let's just say that I totally agree that we have a caste system here...and we all know what color is still at the top! Unfortunately, what many of us are striving for is all colors meeting together, in the middle and thriving by sharing with one another.
Penelope, after I responded to your comment I came across this article in my mail. It speaks to some of the issues I was trying to describe, but not as well as this author does.
The Importance of Twitter’s Trump Ban
https://www.newyorker.com/news/daily-comment/the-importance-and-incoherence-of-twitters-trump-ban
That was interesting. I think the media/social media have a lot of responsibility for the rise of DTJ. He is a celebrity/drama queen and sucks the air out of most situations so he is good for selling papers, shocking headlines and operating his so-called "presidency" and misinformation via late-night manic tweets.
I agree-- our internet media/social media has made the world much more complex and subject to soundbites and info that does not allow for much in-depth thinking.
And then add the trolls, bots, phishing, and targeted propaganda. In many ways we are able to connect and share information around the world immediately and in other ways, it is a pox on humanity. And then there are forums like this one where people can respectfully hash out our thoughts, hear interesting viewpoints, ideas and experiences and continue to grow and learn from the host and one another.
Penelope, one of the reasons I like this forum is the thoughtful exchanges that occur. (OTOH, too many commenters begin with some HCR worship. Don't get me wrong - she's fascinating and helps us all through interpretation and provision of historical context. But that's why we're here and we don't need to bow or curtsy before posting!)
In any case, the notion of "class mourning" is an interesting take, and it makes sense if we extrapolate individual emotions to society as a whole. However, going to your point about education, we try to teach kids that you "can't always get what you want" and that we can accomplish more by working together. These are tough lessons and it seems as if they're frequently forgotten as people get older. But while I'd have patience dealing with an individual who was mourning, I have no patience for a collective that, in its death throes, pursues a scorched earth strategy rather than seeking ways to adapt to new circumstances.
I think you're right - education about history and social models and community dynamics is critical, but my sense is that a larger issue is how 24/7 technology has backfired. The internet's promise of global interconnectedness has created an almost Pavlovian need for new information AND for validation of one's ideas. This reduces patience and lends itself to simplification or shorthand representations of complex ideas.
Who wants to go through a point by point comparison between capitalism, socialism, and communism when they can just say "socialism is bad?" Who wants to think about how elements of social models may cross over into other models? So technology and social media platforms enable you to connect with almost anybody as well as only with those who think like you do. 24/7 access also forces media sources to try come up with something new every hour. In practical terms that message saying the same thing in different ways or to add opinion or speculation in order to offer a "twist" that differentiates one source from another.
So you're not off base when you say "it appears difficult to explain to people who use one-word simplifications, on purpose or out of ignorance, because is it easy, useful propaganda, or they have not thought through all the facts." it's just like the entire GOP picking up the term "radical leftist agenda" of the Democrats. Even Bernie Sanders is not a radical leftist. I personally think Elizabeth Warren was the smartest candidate out there, I'm part because she not only spoke about topics but she documented them and she developed plans to show hoped she'd propose implementing those plans. Just because every industrialized nation has some form of universal health care doesn't mean it's wrong or radical, though that's what the GOP would have you believe.
Long story short (too late, I know), but yes, we must help educate people about "facts" but we cannot afford to slow our efforts to undo the damage that Trump has wrought and to address the critical issues of the pandemic and the economy and political polarization and becoming re-engaged with the world at large. We're not moving backwards to accommodate the feelings of one group that doesn't want to play ball.
Sorry for the rant, but thanks for your great reply.
Hi Scott, I just want to reply to your response to my response and then I will look at the link you just sent. I totally do not agree or condone in any way with the scorched earth policy behaviors of these dying patriarchal thugs. I can have compassion for the reason they are upset. Every single person who has committed sedition needs to pay the consequences. Grief is not a get out of jail free card. As I stated somewhere else today: Sedition. Felony. Twenty years.
I may be compassionate, but I do have strong boundaries and high expectations for human behaviors that go beyond the pale. I feel the same about T**p and all his cronies. None of them are above the law. Sedition is sedition, and attempting to overthrow our election is simply sedition. They should be charged accordingly.
(Additionally, every one of them owes our country reparations).
373. Keep going. "We the People - All of Us This Time'!
Yes Scott: Democratic Socialism (which is the system in Europe put into place by most of the western European countries sometime between 1945 and 1980) presupposes that humanity is better off if everyone is able to achieve the Four Freedoms FDR talked about (Ironically, on 6 January 1941): Freedom from Fear, Freedom from Want, Freedom of Speech, Freedom of Worship. The Freedoms from Want and from Fear are the issues we are really struggling with and have always done. What is different in Europe is that for the most part, parliamentary systems actually DO represent constituencies because they are based mostly on proportional representation, Center-Right parties (with some grumbling, admittedly) DO embrace--after decades of opposition and attempted privatization--principles like universal healthcare, a livable minimum wage, and affordable housing. But here is the problem: in Scandinavia, especially, where these systems work exceptionally well, with only the occasional hiccup (such as Sweden deciding to go for the "herd immunity" option re: COVID-19, which resulted in thousands of preventable deaths), the culture is quite monolithic. The number of non-white northern Scandinavians is extremely small. When refugees began to be welcomed into the system--especially from Turkey, Greece, Syria, Afghanistan, and Somalia--the Right began to try to legislate against their inclusion into the social safety net all "native" (read white Germanic) Swedes, Norse, and Danes enjoy. Racism is just below the surface. Sexism is not as big a deal, apparently, but I have colleagues in Norway who tell me that it is alive and well--also under the surface.
In order for the USA to adopt Democratic Socialist ideals (AOC advocates for this, and of course Bernie) there has to be a broad consensus that everyone has an equal right to freedom from want. That is unlikely to occur because of the racist embrace of American Exceptionalism that occurs not only on the Right but also on the Left.
The word for the politics that have had so much influence in Scandinavia (albeit less nowadays) is Social Democracy.
But almost all developed countries -- except the United States -- have healthcare systems that provide citizens with a safety net in case of illness which, as we have been seeing, is no respecter of beliefs or class distinctions. Or of Cain's response when God asked him where his brother was...
That said, you use that word Socialism (dirty to ultra-individualist American ears) too freely. Is Canada socialist? Is Switzerland socialist? Is Japan socialist?
Yes! Social Democracies is a term I feel might be accepted by Americans, over time. In contrast to Social Democracies, we have 'Private Greed’ of American capitalism.
As Lakoff remains us, "say what you mean, and mean what you say”, over and over again. The benefits of universal health care in a Social Democracy far outweighs the pain, poverty and suffering from the Private Greed of our profiteering health care system
Gotta take "social" out. Capitalistic Democracy? Isn't that our grand experiment? Democracy will cover workers and their families' education and healthcare, along with infrastructure, and environmental management (trying not to sound threatening to CEOs), freeing up business to focus on business.
Yes, I remember my affinity for Demorcatic Capitalism. We will have many people disagree with us, and so that is to be expected if we are say anything meaningful
Thank you for your clarification. I am a democratic socialist in my understandings, and in my support of messengers like AOC and Bernie Sanders-who has delivered a consistent message since the 60’s. It took me a lifetime, but I’m so far to the left now, I can no longer see the center. Here’s hoping the best for you. 🤞🏻❤️🤍💙
Unfortunately, Bernie did not get out ahead of the term ‘democratic socialist’. So, the term and his values got defined for him. He ought to have ALWAYS described the benefits of a European capitalism with its universal safety net, with specific examples of the taxes people paid, and how they benefited with little debt by individuals and families.
I wonder if you agree Deborah
I'm not Deborah but I agree! Someone like Pete Buttigieg could make it palatable and desirable without any "taint" of socialism.
“What we fail to realize is that "the efficiencies of the market" are designed to optimize profit when demand opportunities exist, but assume that 1) everyone has the means to purchase or not purchase as they like, or 2) if they don't have the means, that's their problem.”
Then we have the “essential” workers who are not paid a living wage.
So interesting and alarming that the families with bootstraps refuse to enable those without so that they may pull themselves up as well. The predation of the rich living off the labors of the poor. To me, it’s always about the distribution of wealth. always. And sadly.
Wishing you well, dear sir. May you find bright moments. You have given one to me today.