I was surprised at how personally I took the Jan. 6th attack. I realized I’d grown smug about the strength and longevity of our democratic system but on that day I felt in my gut how fragile it is. I felt it like a personal assault and it was some brave action and shear luck that resulted in it resolving as it did. There could have been kidnappings and executions. We could be under martial law right now.
Terrorism is defined in the Code of Federal Regulations as “the unlawful use of force and violence against persons or property to intimidate or coerce a government, the civilian population, or any segment thereof, in furtherance of political or social objectives” (28 C.F.R. It’s clear that after Trump ran out of nonviolent options he decided all the domestic terrorists he’d befriended could work a last minute miracle for him.
Reliving January 6th via the impeachment presentations made me realize how deeply we’ve all been impacted by that terror and I wonder how long we’ll be dealing with it?
Trump’s tendency all along has been an amoral, empathy less weaponization of fear.
To my mind, democracy is such a big deal because it is our attempt to craft a substitute for all those systems of “might makes right” – whether kings or dictators, strong men or autocrats, all ruled by fear of who had the best weapons or warriors or most ruthless henchmen.
Democracy is not a contest of who has the better weapons but who has the best ideas about how to live well together and flourish. Where ideas can be presented, championed, criticized, debated, modified and ultimately chosen based on votes. It was designed to replace the game of threats of violence.
So when people brandish semi automatic weapons in political adds claiming to be their political adversaries “worst nightmare” – when halls of legislation are invaded by “patriots” in tactical gear, wearing weapons and ammo belts to look over the shoulders of elected officials trying to do the people’s business, or giving a thumbs up to a bullet to the head of The Speaker of the House (or anyone!) aren’t they all weaponizing fear? Aren’t they showing loudly and proudly that they aren’t playing by the rules of democracy? If their game is still “might makes right” shouldn’t that disqualify them from participating in a system of civilized democracy?
Acknowledging also that Trump’s “Big Lie” relentlessly portrayed a stolen election which signaled the end of democracy as we know it and returned his loyal followers to 1776 status and therefore under “different rules.” Such are the hazards of words wielded by an amoral authoritarian.
As disturbing and moving as the impeachment presentations are, I feel little hope that 17 GOP senators will choose the right side of history.
The only thing that gives me any glimmer of hope was the latest vote regarding Congress woman Cheney – who was being attacked and chastised for being among the ten republican representatives to voted in favor of impeaching a leader who turned his followers against democracy itself, ended up 145 to 61 in favor of her keeping her status in their party. But that vote didn’t require risk or bravery because it was a secret ballot which allowed people to vote their conscience and not be driven by fear. Fear not just of losing their jobs, or of being “primaried”, but real fear for their own and their family’s safety. Aren’t they being assaulted?
Assault refers to an act which causes a victim to apprehend imminent physical harm. Even for citizens not paying attention, since the insurrection and the attack on Congress on January 6th we have all heard many stories of the fear felt by the victims of that attack and the fear many of our representatives and staff of congress still feel. As for physical manifestations of that fear we need only look to the national guard troops and fences and razor wire in Washington DC, at the cost of over $500 million tax payer dollars.
Many of the followers of our former president seem quite pleased that so many citizens and legislators are experiencing fear for their safety and lives. Some laughingly brag about bringing their Glocks to Congress and then try to skirt metal detectors. To what degree is that fear effecting the way our leaders are voting? Might certain critical votes being private remedy that? Might private votes on certain issues allow our legislators to vote their conscience and facilitate more ethical government? Shouldn’t this impeachment trial be one of those occasions?
It makes sense that votes cast by our representatives are mostly public, as we want to know our representative’s records to see if they are earning our votes.
But what about this vote that will soon be made concerning the impeachment of former president Trump? To what degree will fear guide those votes, and how might the outcome differ if it was a secret vote? Might a secret vote result in clearer justice and shape the future of our Republic?
I’ve read it takes a simple majority vote of 51 in the Senate to make such a vote secret, but merely 20 votes can keep it public. This is a very simplistic and probably naive suggestion but what if we cast votes twice, one public and one secret? The discrepancy between them would reveal the amount of fear driving the outcome. If they’re close we honor the public vote and if they show a wide difference we honor the private vote? Pretty sure that'll never happen, but what if?
This rant is not that well thought out so I’d love to hear other’s ideas or insights into this. Heather?
David, I agree with much of what you said. A cri de couer isn’t supposed to be thought out and it’s what you have given us this morning. Thank you! Regarding a secret vote: while it might lead to a more just outcome, I am not sure justice per se is actually the purpose of impeachment. We conflate legal concepts in to the constitutional process using terms that describe what happens in a court (trial, jury, misdemeanor etc) but impeachment is a political process. While the Senators judge the merits they themselves remain subject to the ultimate judgment of the people. A secret Senate vote would eliminate their own political accountability. This public accountability is lacking in trials by jury conducted by the judiciary, which are specifically intended to attain justice. After all, juries aren’t elected officials. I am beyond incredulous to witness craven, gutless Senators lacking the courage to stand up for our Republic and for the preservation of democracy, even to the mob that tried to kill them, for fear of that mob at the ballot box. But in its own way this process was designed to play out over a longer time horizon, and I expect it to continue evolving through this next election and beyond. Trump’s acquittal or conviction is just one step, and is neither a true beginning nor an end.
My cousin is a Philadelphia lawyer who worked on the election and is heavily involved with the politics. I texted him to see how he thought it was going. He replied, “ Legal doesn’t matter. The jury is fixed.
Thanks for that perspective Fred. I do know the process is political rather than legal/criminal and has lower standards of proof etc. It just so concerns me to see fear being such a deciding factor in the way people cast their votes, if there were some way to mitigate that influence it seems we'd benefit. Someone suggested a middle ground of such votes being secret but going into the Congressional record and be made public in a year or maybe two? I don't know if postponed accountability would be sufficient.
I hear you and don’t mean to suggest there is only one path forward. Political processes don’t have rules the way legal ones do; procedurally it might be late but some mitigating strategy perhaps should be considered. It is ironic that a Constitution designed to avoid what the framers considered mob rule contains a process which is the focus of exactly that concern 230 years later.
It doesn't lessen the impact that the oath the Senators take is to be a "fair and impartial juror." One "out" for them would be to recuse themselves as not being fair and impartial. I do wonder what has happened to Lindsey Graham that he is as resolute as he is in his defense of the FORMER president.
True, and I can’t help but wonder how some of them square that circle. It is possible that some Senators may be absent from the vote, which would be another way of ducking. As to Lindsay Graham, I wonder the same thing.
“It was miraculous. It was almost no trick at all, he saw, to turn vice into virtue and slander into truth, impotence into abstinence, arrogance into humility, plunder into philanthropy, thievery into honor, blasphemy into wisdom, brutality into patriotism, and sadism into justice. Anybody could do it; it required no brains at all. It merely required no character.”
I saw on ABC during the break asked if Trump is acquitted what happens next and the guest(can't remember his name) said I think it will most likely just be dropped. Given ALL the evidence presented, if we shrug our shoulders and say oh well... how is that acceptable. It is stunning given the honest horror and outrage from say, Nixon's Impeachment, today the GOP only care about their personal power, they don't feel they have any duty to our country, to our laws, or our people. How is this allowed to stand?
So, if the math on a majority vote to convict only counts the senator's present, wouldn't it be best for those who are not impartial to be out of the room when the vote is called?? Win win, right?
100%, David. I too take Jan 6, very, very personally. I've studied the Civil War for several decades, but only now can I finally understand how northern Unionists felt when Lincoln called for volunteers after Ft Sumter. 250,000 people rallied in NY's Union Square, the largest gathering in the history of North America. "It seems as if we never were alive till now; never had a country till now." And ultimately Unionist nationalism proved stronger, defeating the Confederacy and abolishing slavery. We beat them before; we'll do it again. As often as necessary.
David, your words are the same as many are thinking but not able to put into words as you did. Thank you for the “rant”. Although the impeachment is considered a political process, finding Donald Trump guilty is the only way our country can begin to heal. I believe other destructive leaders in history lost their followers once they lost their power. The shameful radical Republicans who are afraid to vote to convict are allowing Donald Trump to continue to maintain power over them. They could free themselves if they would stand up to his abuse over the years.
Yes! It’s Catch 22.... and group think. If just a few more would take the step, to be honest, and willing to put their job, or their reputation on the line, I believe the other dominos would start to fall. But it doesn’t appear that will happen. I am devastated by the remarks by Lindsey Graham, and the other Senators who dismissed the presentation. I am more upset about January 6th then I was at the time. All the remarks and incidents leading up to that date, the bus of Biden volunteers on the road in Texas, the months of ‘rigged’ election remarks and accusations, the post office debacle, it was all a tragedy in 3 acts that we witnessed playing out in slow motion, but to see each and every step of this tied together, step by step, the time line ...bang, bang, bang... it truly overwhelmed me. This was so thoroughly orchestrated. He and the men behind the curtain set up a scenario brilliantly where if he didn’t win re-election they could easily shift to plan B. This was not a random string of events. Maybe he is an idiot, but he is surrounded by some brilliant and evil people who have coached and directed this show.
I am so sad. I was glued to the proceedings for 2 days and thought surely it would give pause to the other side, both in the chamber and around our country. But apparently not. I am saddened beyond belief. I feel like our beloved democracy is dangling on a very thin thread and I’m holding my breath. I am truly afraid.
yeah... I can't imagine how crushed the Impeachment Mangers must be!? They did (still are) such an incredible job..but I guess they know at least there will be a record...
The IMs know that their task is near-insurmountable, but also know that they must persist. They will rank among the Better Angels in American history. The pro-insurrection senatorial scum will not.
Your post reinforces my fear for our next election. Specifically worried about state officials maintaining integrity of the process and norms. If they still believe that they were cheated in 2020 will they in turn cheat to win next time?
Ok, but how do we rid ourselves of them? These people are so deeply entrenched, and have so many connections, that it seems to me that removing them is virtually impossible. And even if they are removed, it would have to be done in such a way that their followers are not further estranged.
So, if the math on a majority vote to convict only counts the senator's present, wouldn't it be best for those who are not impartial to be out of the room when the vote is called?? Win win, right?
I'm surprised the House impeachment team has not mentioned the quasi-criminal strategy the Trump reelection strategists put into practice to get Republicans to vote in person, thus exposing themselves to Coronavirus infection, so that the early vote count would be high in the first period and decline precipitously as mail-in ballots started to be counted, allowing the Trump people to shout "Fraud." This was a massive operation launched well before the election as states were considering unusual voting measures to reduce making polling stations super-spreader events. Trump wittingly and deliberately pushed Republican voters to put themselves in harms way to suit Trump's mad scheme. The influence campaign and planning this required shows a staggering and morally damnable willingness to expose people to mortal danger. This was an important part of the creation of the "stolen election" campaign. I would like to see more investigation into the role Stephen Miller played in some of Trump's more artful manipulations aimed at giving Trump mobster-like power and the least oversight possible.
In March 2020 the NYT published data saying that if all precautions were followed, 82,000 Americans would die from Covid-19; if none were taken, 2.2 million would die. The difference is the total of avoidable deaths. Well guess what, 82,000 is way behind in the rear-view mirror; 2.2 mil is quite possible; and we must learn to live with Covid for years, possibly decades. There is the true measure of Trumpsky's malfeasance and dereliction of duty, even before losing the election and then conspiring to overthrow it. Manslaughter, negligent homicide, crimes against humanity -- take your pick. He's guilty of at least one, maybe all. If there's justice on Earth, may he receive the full measure due.
I do NOT see the possibility of 2.2M deaths. Once people get vaccinated, the odds of severe illness plummet. Yes, we will have to live with Covid-19, but it will then be as the other Covid illnesses are... a cold or flu.
Do not get me wrong, Chump’s herd immunity plan, let everybody get sick to achieve it; is evil. But then, he is an evil, vile person.
That 2.2 million figure was an upper limit based on doing nothing. We did a little before Kushner and others decided to let the virus run its course. I have written before that if we had followed Australia’s lead that we would have 10,000 dead. DJT is responsible for more than 456,000 deaths. He is America’s greatest mass murderer.
The NYT projections came before effective vaccines, before we could hope that a major medical breakthrough could be made so rapidly. 2.2 mil deaths is less likely now, of course, but still possible. Consider all the maskholes who WILL NOT take precautions, and millions who won't get vaccinated. I expect a dangerous transition while vaccination proceeds, but many people ease up on precautions like social distancing, masking, opening businesses and schools, etc. Relief and a false sense of security are real factors.
Based on studying the history of disease for much of the past 30 years. I'll share my worst projection:
The first 50 years of Covid-19 will be the worst. The next 400 won't be so bad.
Alarmist? Maybe, but it reflects knowledge of the course of pneumonic and bubonic plague (the Black Death). After the BD peaked in the mid-14C, it hung around until the 18C. The course of a disease's history often progresses from pandemic > epidemic > endemic. It could take decades or centuries for Covid-19 to become as benign as cold or flu -- and both are still deadly to non-immune populations.
N Cook, Born to Die
A Crosby, Germs, Seeds and Animals
R Gottfried, The Black Death
C Gregg, Plague
W McNeill, Plagues and Peoples (best history of disease)
This is right on the head of the nail...and the mutations continue. IMHO, 400 years is a fair estimate, and other pandemics will happen with endless habitat incursion and the warming climate.
Except if vaccines don’t roll out faster, mutations could bring rise to a strain that is immune to the vaccine, and/or more deadly, and/or faster spreading. I hope 2.2 million is not possible, but we have to stay vigilant and push for better vaccine roll out.
When we look back we will see a huge jump in deaths over the period of the pandemic that were not attributed to Covid. The true morbidity and mortality will take some time to be known. It won’t be pretty. All I can think of when I think of this is that Orange faced mobster grinning gleefully while rallying his sheep to their deaths.
I disagree. Natural selection = evolution. ‘Natural’ herd immunity, using your name for it, causes peoples’ immune systems to fight a reinfection, causing the virus to mostly die out w/very few hosts around. I spent decades in science.
Doesn't natural herd immunity mean that a significant number of the herd will die off from the novel pathogen before the select stronger members gain immunity? like Native Americans with introduced smallpox and Polynesians with measles on first exposure to Europeans who had attained a degree of herd immunity.
Yes European death rates for small pox were in the region of 33% (Black Death plague...50%) whereas the Native Americans eventually lost 95%. herd immunity can take a long time! this is a lot faster than Darwin suggested for "evolution".
Herd immunity is a veterinary term, referring to a vaccination program designed to prevent further deaths in a population. Or, one can simply "stand back and stand by" (sorry, couldn't resist) and let natural selection do it's thing.
Not exactly. Natural selection means more suited to survive and reproduce. Herd immunity refers to 70-80% vaccination to stop spread. Herd immunity as a term should not be applied to a natural spreading event. More spread more mutations, and the cycle of sickness and spread repeats.
It looks like that number is a worst case scenario of zero precautions taken. That's not the current case. With varying levels of risk mitigation we'll be hitting 500k soon enough, and the number will go up from there.
Potential for Mutations are high. Thus it could roar back. SARS had 9% mortality. MERS 29%. Both Corona viruses. Getting spread under control is so important.
So should every seditionist republican who signed their names to overturn our 2020 election. Not one of them should be allowed to be jurors in this case. It is so obvious it makes my blood boil to see these immature dunderwhelps thumbing their noses at our democracy and this trial. Why are the dems not speaking to that point?
Seditionist jurors sitting and mocking the trial of their lead seditionist? We are no going into the sixth year of constant insults to our democracy and our intelligence. Can all of these thickwiggits be brainwashed? They have violated their oaths of office and to the people for four years...it is so damned clear.
yes but with a cooperative judge in the right place it would be considered only as embarrassing as killing a Native American girl or guy in the wilds of the Dakotas or some such place......hardly meriting judgement let alone incarceration or probation!
Try viewing "Wind River." It's a feature film but it exposes the tragic plight of Native Amer women, who have been undervalued, dehumanized and brutalized for centuries. Even today there is no comprehensive data on rapes, assault and murder. A national disgrace.
Wind River has many merits: the mystery, acting, script, plot/character development. But everyone please note, there are several scenes with gut-wrenching violence. It's not for the squeamish.
Good point. That was a particularly macabre piece of Trump's theatre. But I think the house managers are right in choosing the more blatant pieces of Trump's reality TV style of coup.
I still feel like there is something missing from this story. Why are these Republicans REALLY sticking with Trump?
None of the hypotheses I've seen feel right.
In fact, their antics are so bizarre that I've even entertained the notion that they are true patriots, secretly sacrificing their careers for the purpose of tearing the Republican Party to shreds, so that the nation can survive. Loyal crew members taking the dangerous nuclear submarine all the way to the bottom of the ocean.
Which is absurd, of course. But so is just about any other scenario.
I have to go back to my most basic conspiracy go-to: if it looks like a conspiracy, and smells like a conspiracy, and scares you like a conspiracy, then stop and check to see if it is simply stupidity. And it may be that these 40-some-odd Senators are just that brain-dead.
Honestly it just makes me wonder what blackmail and or payoffs re involved t least with someone like Lindsey Graham and Ron Johnson and of course McConnell always has something evil behind ll of his choices. I just don’t understand why the CIA or FBI hasn’t figured it out or how to pecifically tie. Republican or Trump directly with this.
I think that they are caught between a rock and a hard place....damned if they do, damned if they don't. They are stuck, immobile like a rabbit crossing the road in some passing cars headlights. At that moment the mind doesn't function logically, the reptillion brain is all alone, unfettered by thinking functions and unable to chose a strategy for safe escape.
Apparently yes. Their status and membership of the "clan" defines who they are. They would be afraid of falling down a hole if they had to rely solely on their personal qualities and skills. Like taking away the psychological defenses of a manic depressive. The depths of the unconscious beckons!
Stuart, I think you are correct. Their identity, their purpose, their reason for existence; their power are all at stake and they see it slipping away. Never to be retrieved.
Following this thread, I think there are a couple of quiet thoughts that aren't being said out loud.
First, this 'trial' is not meant for the consumption of the 'jury' (the Senators). It is designed and scripted for the mass public. This is the opening act of the next election cycle. And it seems to be going quite well for the 'prosecution'.
Second, I question the depth and breadth of what we term 'Trumps base'. I do not think there are as many of them, nor are they organized and focused, as some would have us believe.
All that said, ad revenues from media outlets must be way up - and that dear friends is what this is all about. Rant off.
Look to the actions of the Republican party at the state level. Arizona and Michigan have been in the news the past few days. Other state parties (Wyoming and another that I cannot recall off the top of my head) have "reprimanded" their Representatives for voting with the Democratic party in their moving forward with impeachment. Oregon's Republican party has gone full Q, as have others (Pennsylvania comes to mind). I believe that the "base" is vast, and not all of it would be visible to most scrutiny.
I know that my small work group (8 or so) is staunchly pro tRump and many believe some of the Qonspiriacy theories. Sadly, this small work group is mostly very young cops.
My sense here in AZ is that the GOPQ hierarchy is considered to be pretty far right, and worse. It is they who are getting bashed for losing the two Senate seats, and the general election.
Ally, do these young officers think that Trump was pro-law-enforcement or, is there some other nefarious undertones influencing their Q beliefs? I'm saddened to hear this as I'm very pro-law enforcement!
I was surprised at how personally I took the Jan. 6th attack. I realized I’d grown smug about the strength and longevity of our democratic system but on that day I felt in my gut how fragile it is. I felt it like a personal assault and it was some brave action and shear luck that resulted in it resolving as it did. There could have been kidnappings and executions. We could be under martial law right now.
Terrorism is defined in the Code of Federal Regulations as “the unlawful use of force and violence against persons or property to intimidate or coerce a government, the civilian population, or any segment thereof, in furtherance of political or social objectives” (28 C.F.R. It’s clear that after Trump ran out of nonviolent options he decided all the domestic terrorists he’d befriended could work a last minute miracle for him.
Reliving January 6th via the impeachment presentations made me realize how deeply we’ve all been impacted by that terror and I wonder how long we’ll be dealing with it?
Trump’s tendency all along has been an amoral, empathy less weaponization of fear.
To my mind, democracy is such a big deal because it is our attempt to craft a substitute for all those systems of “might makes right” – whether kings or dictators, strong men or autocrats, all ruled by fear of who had the best weapons or warriors or most ruthless henchmen.
Democracy is not a contest of who has the better weapons but who has the best ideas about how to live well together and flourish. Where ideas can be presented, championed, criticized, debated, modified and ultimately chosen based on votes. It was designed to replace the game of threats of violence.
So when people brandish semi automatic weapons in political adds claiming to be their political adversaries “worst nightmare” – when halls of legislation are invaded by “patriots” in tactical gear, wearing weapons and ammo belts to look over the shoulders of elected officials trying to do the people’s business, or giving a thumbs up to a bullet to the head of The Speaker of the House (or anyone!) aren’t they all weaponizing fear? Aren’t they showing loudly and proudly that they aren’t playing by the rules of democracy? If their game is still “might makes right” shouldn’t that disqualify them from participating in a system of civilized democracy?
Acknowledging also that Trump’s “Big Lie” relentlessly portrayed a stolen election which signaled the end of democracy as we know it and returned his loyal followers to 1776 status and therefore under “different rules.” Such are the hazards of words wielded by an amoral authoritarian.
As disturbing and moving as the impeachment presentations are, I feel little hope that 17 GOP senators will choose the right side of history.
The only thing that gives me any glimmer of hope was the latest vote regarding Congress woman Cheney – who was being attacked and chastised for being among the ten republican representatives to voted in favor of impeaching a leader who turned his followers against democracy itself, ended up 145 to 61 in favor of her keeping her status in their party. But that vote didn’t require risk or bravery because it was a secret ballot which allowed people to vote their conscience and not be driven by fear. Fear not just of losing their jobs, or of being “primaried”, but real fear for their own and their family’s safety. Aren’t they being assaulted?
Assault refers to an act which causes a victim to apprehend imminent physical harm. Even for citizens not paying attention, since the insurrection and the attack on Congress on January 6th we have all heard many stories of the fear felt by the victims of that attack and the fear many of our representatives and staff of congress still feel. As for physical manifestations of that fear we need only look to the national guard troops and fences and razor wire in Washington DC, at the cost of over $500 million tax payer dollars.
Many of the followers of our former president seem quite pleased that so many citizens and legislators are experiencing fear for their safety and lives. Some laughingly brag about bringing their Glocks to Congress and then try to skirt metal detectors. To what degree is that fear effecting the way our leaders are voting? Might certain critical votes being private remedy that? Might private votes on certain issues allow our legislators to vote their conscience and facilitate more ethical government? Shouldn’t this impeachment trial be one of those occasions?
It makes sense that votes cast by our representatives are mostly public, as we want to know our representative’s records to see if they are earning our votes.
But what about this vote that will soon be made concerning the impeachment of former president Trump? To what degree will fear guide those votes, and how might the outcome differ if it was a secret vote? Might a secret vote result in clearer justice and shape the future of our Republic?
I’ve read it takes a simple majority vote of 51 in the Senate to make such a vote secret, but merely 20 votes can keep it public. This is a very simplistic and probably naive suggestion but what if we cast votes twice, one public and one secret? The discrepancy between them would reveal the amount of fear driving the outcome. If they’re close we honor the public vote and if they show a wide difference we honor the private vote? Pretty sure that'll never happen, but what if?
This rant is not that well thought out so I’d love to hear other’s ideas or insights into this. Heather?
David, I agree with much of what you said. A cri de couer isn’t supposed to be thought out and it’s what you have given us this morning. Thank you! Regarding a secret vote: while it might lead to a more just outcome, I am not sure justice per se is actually the purpose of impeachment. We conflate legal concepts in to the constitutional process using terms that describe what happens in a court (trial, jury, misdemeanor etc) but impeachment is a political process. While the Senators judge the merits they themselves remain subject to the ultimate judgment of the people. A secret Senate vote would eliminate their own political accountability. This public accountability is lacking in trials by jury conducted by the judiciary, which are specifically intended to attain justice. After all, juries aren’t elected officials. I am beyond incredulous to witness craven, gutless Senators lacking the courage to stand up for our Republic and for the preservation of democracy, even to the mob that tried to kill them, for fear of that mob at the ballot box. But in its own way this process was designed to play out over a longer time horizon, and I expect it to continue evolving through this next election and beyond. Trump’s acquittal or conviction is just one step, and is neither a true beginning nor an end.
My cousin is a Philadelphia lawyer who worked on the election and is heavily involved with the politics. I texted him to see how he thought it was going. He replied, “ Legal doesn’t matter. The jury is fixed.
Politically they [Dems] are doing great.”
Jury "fixing" is a crime it seems to me ....but who's counting? The politics has got to be made to kill them.
Thanks for that perspective Fred. I do know the process is political rather than legal/criminal and has lower standards of proof etc. It just so concerns me to see fear being such a deciding factor in the way people cast their votes, if there were some way to mitigate that influence it seems we'd benefit. Someone suggested a middle ground of such votes being secret but going into the Congressional record and be made public in a year or maybe two? I don't know if postponed accountability would be sufficient.
I hear you and don’t mean to suggest there is only one path forward. Political processes don’t have rules the way legal ones do; procedurally it might be late but some mitigating strategy perhaps should be considered. It is ironic that a Constitution designed to avoid what the framers considered mob rule contains a process which is the focus of exactly that concern 230 years later.
It doesn't lessen the impact that the oath the Senators take is to be a "fair and impartial juror." One "out" for them would be to recuse themselves as not being fair and impartial. I do wonder what has happened to Lindsey Graham that he is as resolute as he is in his defense of the FORMER president.
True, and I can’t help but wonder how some of them square that circle. It is possible that some Senators may be absent from the vote, which would be another way of ducking. As to Lindsay Graham, I wonder the same thing.
“It was miraculous. It was almost no trick at all, he saw, to turn vice into virtue and slander into truth, impotence into abstinence, arrogance into humility, plunder into philanthropy, thievery into honor, blasphemy into wisdom, brutality into patriotism, and sadism into justice. Anybody could do it; it required no brains at all. It merely required no character.”
-- Joseph Heller "Catch 22"
Can you please explain just why they are not being called out to leave when they so obviously have already made a decision?
I saw on ABC during the break asked if Trump is acquitted what happens next and the guest(can't remember his name) said I think it will most likely just be dropped. Given ALL the evidence presented, if we shrug our shoulders and say oh well... how is that acceptable. It is stunning given the honest horror and outrage from say, Nixon's Impeachment, today the GOP only care about their personal power, they don't feel they have any duty to our country, to our laws, or our people. How is this allowed to stand?
So, if the math on a majority vote to convict only counts the senator's present, wouldn't it be best for those who are not impartial to be out of the room when the vote is called?? Win win, right?
They are "out of the room" (Hawley and Cruz studiously not paying attention, Paul and his antics, etc.) but they still vote in the end.
I don't think they have the courage.. they haven't had it for 4+ years... so ... but it would be easier than to vote to convict!
Oh.
David, your essay should be published and read far and wide. I second all you have so beautifully stated. Thank you.
Not well thought out? It’s brilliant!
100%, David. I too take Jan 6, very, very personally. I've studied the Civil War for several decades, but only now can I finally understand how northern Unionists felt when Lincoln called for volunteers after Ft Sumter. 250,000 people rallied in NY's Union Square, the largest gathering in the history of North America. "It seems as if we never were alive till now; never had a country till now." And ultimately Unionist nationalism proved stronger, defeating the Confederacy and abolishing slavery. We beat them before; we'll do it again. As often as necessary.
J McPherson, Battle Cry of Freedom
It never pays to forget that democracy is a very recent political experiment.
One of the first books I read on the subject....excellent.
You have said exactly how I feel but did not know how to explain it as well! Thank you for taking the time to do so.
Thanks Becky. No doubt your comments also assist others in understanding.
David, your words are the same as many are thinking but not able to put into words as you did. Thank you for the “rant”. Although the impeachment is considered a political process, finding Donald Trump guilty is the only way our country can begin to heal. I believe other destructive leaders in history lost their followers once they lost their power. The shameful radical Republicans who are afraid to vote to convict are allowing Donald Trump to continue to maintain power over them. They could free themselves if they would stand up to his abuse over the years.
Yes! It’s Catch 22.... and group think. If just a few more would take the step, to be honest, and willing to put their job, or their reputation on the line, I believe the other dominos would start to fall. But it doesn’t appear that will happen. I am devastated by the remarks by Lindsey Graham, and the other Senators who dismissed the presentation. I am more upset about January 6th then I was at the time. All the remarks and incidents leading up to that date, the bus of Biden volunteers on the road in Texas, the months of ‘rigged’ election remarks and accusations, the post office debacle, it was all a tragedy in 3 acts that we witnessed playing out in slow motion, but to see each and every step of this tied together, step by step, the time line ...bang, bang, bang... it truly overwhelmed me. This was so thoroughly orchestrated. He and the men behind the curtain set up a scenario brilliantly where if he didn’t win re-election they could easily shift to plan B. This was not a random string of events. Maybe he is an idiot, but he is surrounded by some brilliant and evil people who have coached and directed this show.
I am so sad. I was glued to the proceedings for 2 days and thought surely it would give pause to the other side, both in the chamber and around our country. But apparently not. I am saddened beyond belief. I feel like our beloved democracy is dangling on a very thin thread and I’m holding my breath. I am truly afraid.
So much this! I can't watch the proceedings because it's leaving me full of despair, anger, hatred, fear, and feeling wrung out.
yeah... I can't imagine how crushed the Impeachment Mangers must be!? They did (still are) such an incredible job..but I guess they know at least there will be a record...
The IMs know that their task is near-insurmountable, but also know that they must persist. They will rank among the Better Angels in American history. The pro-insurrection senatorial scum will not.
They educated all of America and all of the world. Not too shabby for one week’s work.
Same for me.
Me too. Everything you said.😭
Yes, this 😢
Your post reinforces my fear for our next election. Specifically worried about state officials maintaining integrity of the process and norms. If they still believe that they were cheated in 2020 will they in turn cheat to win next time?
They already are.
Yep. They need to be rooted out.
Yes, but how?!?
Identify the sec states and electors in the local and national press.
Ok, but how do we rid ourselves of them? These people are so deeply entrenched, and have so many connections, that it seems to me that removing them is virtually impossible. And even if they are removed, it would have to be done in such a way that their followers are not further estranged.
NOT a rant at all!!! Superbly Written!!!
Thank You💓😊
Brilliant!
So, if the math on a majority vote to convict only counts the senator's present, wouldn't it be best for those who are not impartial to be out of the room when the vote is called?? Win win, right?
From your lips to God’s ears.
Here are my thoughts https://dianefrancis.substack.com/p/american-un-exceptionalism
“I was surprised at how personally I took the Jan. 6th attack.”
I'm surprised the House impeachment team has not mentioned the quasi-criminal strategy the Trump reelection strategists put into practice to get Republicans to vote in person, thus exposing themselves to Coronavirus infection, so that the early vote count would be high in the first period and decline precipitously as mail-in ballots started to be counted, allowing the Trump people to shout "Fraud." This was a massive operation launched well before the election as states were considering unusual voting measures to reduce making polling stations super-spreader events. Trump wittingly and deliberately pushed Republican voters to put themselves in harms way to suit Trump's mad scheme. The influence campaign and planning this required shows a staggering and morally damnable willingness to expose people to mortal danger. This was an important part of the creation of the "stolen election" campaign. I would like to see more investigation into the role Stephen Miller played in some of Trump's more artful manipulations aimed at giving Trump mobster-like power and the least oversight possible.
In March 2020 the NYT published data saying that if all precautions were followed, 82,000 Americans would die from Covid-19; if none were taken, 2.2 million would die. The difference is the total of avoidable deaths. Well guess what, 82,000 is way behind in the rear-view mirror; 2.2 mil is quite possible; and we must learn to live with Covid for years, possibly decades. There is the true measure of Trumpsky's malfeasance and dereliction of duty, even before losing the election and then conspiring to overthrow it. Manslaughter, negligent homicide, crimes against humanity -- take your pick. He's guilty of at least one, maybe all. If there's justice on Earth, may he receive the full measure due.
I do NOT see the possibility of 2.2M deaths. Once people get vaccinated, the odds of severe illness plummet. Yes, we will have to live with Covid-19, but it will then be as the other Covid illnesses are... a cold or flu.
Do not get me wrong, Chump’s herd immunity plan, let everybody get sick to achieve it; is evil. But then, he is an evil, vile person.
That 2.2 million figure was an upper limit based on doing nothing. We did a little before Kushner and others decided to let the virus run its course. I have written before that if we had followed Australia’s lead that we would have 10,000 dead. DJT is responsible for more than 456,000 deaths. He is America’s greatest mass murderer.
The NYT projections came before effective vaccines, before we could hope that a major medical breakthrough could be made so rapidly. 2.2 mil deaths is less likely now, of course, but still possible. Consider all the maskholes who WILL NOT take precautions, and millions who won't get vaccinated. I expect a dangerous transition while vaccination proceeds, but many people ease up on precautions like social distancing, masking, opening businesses and schools, etc. Relief and a false sense of security are real factors.
Based on studying the history of disease for much of the past 30 years. I'll share my worst projection:
The first 50 years of Covid-19 will be the worst. The next 400 won't be so bad.
Alarmist? Maybe, but it reflects knowledge of the course of pneumonic and bubonic plague (the Black Death). After the BD peaked in the mid-14C, it hung around until the 18C. The course of a disease's history often progresses from pandemic > epidemic > endemic. It could take decades or centuries for Covid-19 to become as benign as cold or flu -- and both are still deadly to non-immune populations.
N Cook, Born to Die
A Crosby, Germs, Seeds and Animals
R Gottfried, The Black Death
C Gregg, Plague
W McNeill, Plagues and Peoples (best history of disease)
This is right on the head of the nail...and the mutations continue. IMHO, 400 years is a fair estimate, and other pandemics will happen with endless habitat incursion and the warming climate.
Thanks for reminder, Kim; the mutation aspect is another complicating factor.
Yes, The loss of habitat and biodiversity weaken our natural rings of pathogen defense.
Except if vaccines don’t roll out faster, mutations could bring rise to a strain that is immune to the vaccine, and/or more deadly, and/or faster spreading. I hope 2.2 million is not possible, but we have to stay vigilant and push for better vaccine roll out.
The beast can also mutate itself out of the "infectious" league!
I'll say it again, there is no such thing as "natural" herd immunity, that process is called natural selection.
When we look back we will see a huge jump in deaths over the period of the pandemic that were not attributed to Covid. The true morbidity and mortality will take some time to be known. It won’t be pretty. All I can think of when I think of this is that Orange faced mobster grinning gleefully while rallying his sheep to their deaths.
Totally. Read “The Great Influenza” Barry. Same mistakes, arrogance, minimizing, censorship. I think we r on the right track now I cam only hope
I disagree. Natural selection = evolution. ‘Natural’ herd immunity, using your name for it, causes peoples’ immune systems to fight a reinfection, causing the virus to mostly die out w/very few hosts around. I spent decades in science.
Doesn't natural herd immunity mean that a significant number of the herd will die off from the novel pathogen before the select stronger members gain immunity? like Native Americans with introduced smallpox and Polynesians with measles on first exposure to Europeans who had attained a degree of herd immunity.
Yes European death rates for small pox were in the region of 33% (Black Death plague...50%) whereas the Native Americans eventually lost 95%. herd immunity can take a long time! this is a lot faster than Darwin suggested for "evolution".
Yup
Herd immunity is a veterinary term, referring to a vaccination program designed to prevent further deaths in a population. Or, one can simply "stand back and stand by" (sorry, couldn't resist) and let natural selection do it's thing.
Like the deniers who refuse to take precautions of masking and distancing. Natural Selection - thinning the herd of its weakest minds.
Seeking herd immunity without a vaccine, as the Trumpsky admin did, is a crime against humanity. So much unnecessary suffering and death .... Tragic.
Ooops... well, I guess you would know, I am not sure...
Lol, I am not sure of anything these days, other than djt is an evil man.
Exactly...
Not exactly. Natural selection means more suited to survive and reproduce. Herd immunity refers to 70-80% vaccination to stop spread. Herd immunity as a term should not be applied to a natural spreading event. More spread more mutations, and the cycle of sickness and spread repeats.
It looks like that number is a worst case scenario of zero precautions taken. That's not the current case. With varying levels of risk mitigation we'll be hitting 500k soon enough, and the number will go up from there.
Not everybody has taken precautions. Some states carry on as if the pandemic is a hoax! Life as usual...
Potential for Mutations are high. Thus it could roar back. SARS had 9% mortality. MERS 29%. Both Corona viruses. Getting spread under control is so important.
Genocide
Could have gone higher than 2.2 if not mitigated. I’ve read as high as 6 mil. Just look at northern Italy. 7% mortality.
Stephan Miller should be on trial this week.
So should every seditionist republican who signed their names to overturn our 2020 election. Not one of them should be allowed to be jurors in this case. It is so obvious it makes my blood boil to see these immature dunderwhelps thumbing their noses at our democracy and this trial. Why are the dems not speaking to that point?
Seditionist jurors sitting and mocking the trial of their lead seditionist? We are no going into the sixth year of constant insults to our democracy and our intelligence. Can all of these thickwiggits be brainwashed? They have violated their oaths of office and to the people for four years...it is so damned clear.
"Dunderwhelps" and " thickwiggits"....great descriptive words!!!!
they are all on trial this week....in the court of public opinion.... hence the dramatized and televised Democrat show.
My take on impeachment https://dianefrancis.substack.com/p/american-un-exceptionalism
Yes me too. I smell Miller in everything egregious that Fake45 does.
Sounds like a massive case of manslaughter.
I was thinking Felony Murder.
yes but with a cooperative judge in the right place it would be considered only as embarrassing as killing a Native American girl or guy in the wilds of the Dakotas or some such place......hardly meriting judgement let alone incarceration or probation!
Try viewing "Wind River." It's a feature film but it exposes the tragic plight of Native Amer women, who have been undervalued, dehumanized and brutalized for centuries. Even today there is no comprehensive data on rapes, assault and murder. A national disgrace.
already done when it came out. Perfectly agree with your analysis
Good taste distinguishes you, Stuart.
Wind River has many merits: the mystery, acting, script, plot/character development. But everyone please note, there are several scenes with gut-wrenching violence. It's not for the squeamish.
The managers aren’t finished yet. They have 2/11 to continue their presentation.
Good point. That was a particularly macabre piece of Trump's theatre. But I think the house managers are right in choosing the more blatant pieces of Trump's reality TV style of coup.
I still feel like there is something missing from this story. Why are these Republicans REALLY sticking with Trump?
None of the hypotheses I've seen feel right.
In fact, their antics are so bizarre that I've even entertained the notion that they are true patriots, secretly sacrificing their careers for the purpose of tearing the Republican Party to shreds, so that the nation can survive. Loyal crew members taking the dangerous nuclear submarine all the way to the bottom of the ocean.
Which is absurd, of course. But so is just about any other scenario.
I have to go back to my most basic conspiracy go-to: if it looks like a conspiracy, and smells like a conspiracy, and scares you like a conspiracy, then stop and check to see if it is simply stupidity. And it may be that these 40-some-odd Senators are just that brain-dead.
Honestly it just makes me wonder what blackmail and or payoffs re involved t least with someone like Lindsey Graham and Ron Johnson and of course McConnell always has something evil behind ll of his choices. I just don’t understand why the CIA or FBI hasn’t figured it out or how to pecifically tie. Republican or Trump directly with this.
Now that they are back in professional hands they will surely be looking at the question.
It is about time. May they prepare their cases thoroughly and honorably.
I think so as well.
this guy has an idea
https://twitter.com/TimInHonolulu/status/1359879537564110851?s=20
I think that they are caught between a rock and a hard place....damned if they do, damned if they don't. They are stuck, immobile like a rabbit crossing the road in some passing cars headlights. At that moment the mind doesn't function logically, the reptillion brain is all alone, unfettered by thinking functions and unable to chose a strategy for safe escape.
Is it that terrifying that one might lose an elected position and have to work for a living again?
Apparently yes. Their status and membership of the "clan" defines who they are. They would be afraid of falling down a hole if they had to rely solely on their personal qualities and skills. Like taking away the psychological defenses of a manic depressive. The depths of the unconscious beckons!
Stuart, I think you are correct. Their identity, their purpose, their reason for existence; their power are all at stake and they see it slipping away. Never to be retrieved.
Following this thread, I think there are a couple of quiet thoughts that aren't being said out loud.
First, this 'trial' is not meant for the consumption of the 'jury' (the Senators). It is designed and scripted for the mass public. This is the opening act of the next election cycle. And it seems to be going quite well for the 'prosecution'.
Second, I question the depth and breadth of what we term 'Trumps base'. I do not think there are as many of them, nor are they organized and focused, as some would have us believe.
All that said, ad revenues from media outlets must be way up - and that dear friends is what this is all about. Rant off.
Look to the actions of the Republican party at the state level. Arizona and Michigan have been in the news the past few days. Other state parties (Wyoming and another that I cannot recall off the top of my head) have "reprimanded" their Representatives for voting with the Democratic party in their moving forward with impeachment. Oregon's Republican party has gone full Q, as have others (Pennsylvania comes to mind). I believe that the "base" is vast, and not all of it would be visible to most scrutiny.
I know that my small work group (8 or so) is staunchly pro tRump and many believe some of the Qonspiriacy theories. Sadly, this small work group is mostly very young cops.
Arrgh! That’s painful!
My sense here in AZ is that the GOPQ hierarchy is considered to be pretty far right, and worse. It is they who are getting bashed for losing the two Senate seats, and the general election.
Ally, do these young officers think that Trump was pro-law-enforcement or, is there some other nefarious undertones influencing their Q beliefs? I'm saddened to hear this as I'm very pro-law enforcement!
The money, power and privilege out weighs any moral integrity it seems.