A coup is an act of war against the country. Treason, the only crime defined in the Constitution, has as an element, "making war on the United States." Someone should be making a list with every name in this article on it, and tomorrow morning at 0600, the FBI should arrest all of them - starting with Trump in Mar A Lardo, and then after a night in the DC drunk tank, they should be arraigned Monday morning, charged with Conspiracy To Commit Treason. And Senator Graham and all the rest of the traitors in Congress should be there with them.
There is -- I believe -- no federal prohibition against capital punishment, and as I recall, the proper sentence for treason is hanging. For reasons of both practical and symbolic, I think hanging should be the punishment for the crime.
I am in deep gratitude to you for your music. I spent several years in Mendocino county teaching the college of the Redwoods nursing program. That you hail from Arcata is quite special for me. The hospital there is amazing. Your music is transcendental and gives me great,deep joy. Thank you and blessings upon you
Gardening: the earth, the stones, the worms, the roots...the knees. Mark, my late husband, said that I missed weeding in the winter. And the trees, the bushes and the flowers.
My granddaughter was born in the Mad River Hospital in Arcata. The staff there was wonderful. My daughter lived in Arcata for about 15 years. Two years ago she moved just north of Trinidad, literally across the street from Sue-Meg State Park (formerly Patricks Point State Park). It is magnificently beautiful there, a magical place for my granddaughter to grow up. My daughter is politically very progressive, as are many of the folks who populate the area. I only hope that our country doesn't turn brutally suppressive, as I fear it will if fuhrer Trump returns to power. His heavily armed sturmabteilung are ready to do his bidding. I have never been this worried about the state of our country.
Whack a Mole is not the answer to sedition. The death penalty is barbaric and imprisonment of all who were involved is impractical. Perhaps we might settle on voting Republicans out of office - that is something we can all take part in.
The argument is Both/And, not Either/Or. As HCR writes about the critical history-changing error of not holding Confederate leaders accountable and taking them back into the governmental fold, it's a dangerous precedent that gives a message of permission for politicians down the road to test the boundaries, as have the trumper insurrectionists. Vote them out AND fully prosecute them.
Sorry, but this speculation surely has nothing to do with the law, which is supposed to apply equally to all.
If this line of inaction were followed, it would be tantamount to upholding the "anything goes" approach of the
GOP cabal, a cabal that befouls the name "Republican" and continues to threaten the very existence of the American Republic.
Every minute that the conspirators go free, every minute that they fail to face the full rigor of the law, adds to the danger that they constitute, not only for the Republic but for the world.
That is why they will do their damnedest to stretch the minutes out until they have succeeded in cheating their way to seizing and securing power.
These people pose an existential threat. Their continued freedom endangers all, including themselves...
The small fish, like the qanon shaman, should not be the only ones punished. The planners and inviters should be held accountable. How is looking for ways to overturn an election with a declared winner not a crime? Far and away too much of our government rests on the good character of those in office . Good character is a flimsy foundation for a country. Tfg showed a lot of flaws in our system.
I am calling for strategic action and effective tactics. I spend a lot of time listening to CSpan broadcasts of congressional hearings and of federal court oral arguments. Administering justice fairly and well is slow going. By design.
So yes, pursue justice through the legislature and through the courts. Absolutely. But do not pretend that it will be easy or that your desired outcome is assured. Any time soon, if at all. Some comments here smack a bit of 'let someone else - congress, the courts -take care of it."
As hard as it seems, voting Republicans out of office is a more immediate solution to mitigating the existential threat of them running government.
And yes, Trump at Mar a Lago and even on the stump is less dangerous than Trump in the White House and making policy.
If you are right, the January 6th uprising has already succeeded and the republic, having no dequate defense against treason, is failing itself and failing humanity.
Seriously? Yes Republicans have been hollowing out the institutions of government since Reagan. But their Jan 6 insurrection failed. The Electoral College results were certified and the Biden Harris administration was inaugurated.
With Democratic majorities - stronger and better lead in the House - progress is being made. Justice is being pursued.
Hyperbolic defeatism is the last thing we need. It is another form of voter suppression.
We still don’t know what exactly went on in the Pentagon in those weeks and days, and there’s no “ voting them out”. Charges need to be brought to these traitors.
Hahahaha, vote them out you say? Have you been paying attention to all the “voter integrity” laws that will make that statement a joke? Also, much of the country has tuned out, dropped out and are psyched out…. Legal consequences are desperately needed or we all can just bow down
I am not defeated. But I am surrounded by cult MAGAts who buy Rupert’s bull Schitt propaganda with nary a thought to reality, and a Governor who will deliver TX to chump, no matter my vote. If he is not in jail that is…
Lin, do you not think imprisonment is a proper consequence?
We have imprisoned such a large percentage of the Black and Latin population...it is not at all impractical to imprison the seditionists. I say release the people imprisoned for marijuana charges, for racist charges, and there will be more than enough room for the seditionists and insurrectionists.
I want to see justice done. Especially regarding Trump and his henchman, in and out of government.
Elections are quicker than trials for removing miscreants from power.
For many insurrectionists and enablers, restorative justice would be more to the point than imprisonment.
Judicial reform and racial justice is part of building back better. And worth a more considered discussion.
But overall, I would think we want fewer people imprisoned. Fewer prisons and more restorative justice - bringing outlaws into dialogue, as a strategy for reeducating them and the goal of reintegrating them.
I respectfully disagree. Trump WAS removed from office, yet can it be argued that he now poses just as great a threat to the country as he ever has, if not even more? The only way to effectively deal with that threat is to see that mendacious creep behind bars. Forever.
Talking about punishments made me fantasize that TFG would save us lots of trouble and flee to Russia, or even to a tiny island his backers would have to buy for him, in case Putin wouldn’t take him in. The rest of the miscreants would be prosecuted, voted out, disbarred, bankrupted, thoroughly shamed.
You have succeeded in turning the conversation to inconsequential waffling about high principles, away from the immediate danger that we all face.
Meanwhile, the criminals are digging themselves in, incrusting themselves in the system.
Every distraction from essentials, every distraction from public safety, empowers the cabal.
Can we please stop, cut out irrelevant abstractions (including party politics) fall silent and take stock of the immeasurable danger that is still bearing down on us?
Anything else amounts to working for the adversaire.
Thank you Peter for your clear assessment. Our nation is in grave danger and those responsible must be brought to justice, which includes removing them from office.
Agreed. We need to form a coalition to save our Constitutional Republic with anyone who will help. That needs to be our single purpose. We are at the point of triaging our republic, not treating the worried well.
That's what I have been saying for months. Everything (except perhaps voting rights legislation) should be put on the back burner while all energies and resources are directed at maintaining Democratic congressional majorities in 2022, ten and a half months from now. The clock is ticking.
The cornerstone of restorative justice is education, to which the recipient must be open to listening and reflection of how to change for the better in order for justice to be served. I don't see the trump-Republican pursuers of power and profit at all costs as amenable to such education.
There are some people who belong in prison. Period. There are some who just never had a chance in this world and do benefit from being given one—education, skills, meaningful work. Why spend the equivalent of college tuition annually on prisoners for the rest of their lives when a few years of college would turn them around so to speak? But, some people had every advantage and chose the dark path. They will not be rehabilitated I believe. And that includes all these white collar mobsters that surround Trump.
Never thought I could say this but members of the GQP may not have the ability to listen to others. I wouldn't want to facilitate Restorative Justice Sessions for them. I might rip my own hair out
Restorative Justice is designed to "Repair the harm caused by crime. When victims, offenders, and community members meet to decide how to do that, the results can be transformational." Also: "It emphasizes accountability, making amends, and — if they are interested — facilitated meetings between victims, offenders, and other persons." In my limited experience with Restorative Justice, it works when the offenses are relatively (and keep in mind my relatively is tempered by 35 years in the criminal justice system) minor, and the root motivations for the crime can be traced to some socioeconomic disadvantage, drug use, or (later in the process) racially/ethnically based prosecutions vs. alternative resolutions. It does not work for people who intentionally inflict violence on others (with the caveat that the disproportionate punishment and sentencing as recently demonstrated in Missouri with Kevin Strickland's case is something else entirely to be addressed).
This isn't stealing stuff, damaging property, or engaging in drug driven behavior, nor is it criminalized conduct defined by racial or socioeconomic events. THIS IS AN ATTEMPT TO OVERTHROW THE GOVERNMENT that was done willfully, intentionally, and knowingly by elected officials of that very same government in order to preserve their power.
Thank you for this explanation Ally. This is consistent with what I thought I knew about restorative justice but considering it for a psychopathic cult leader made me blink. Appreciate you taking the time to share your knowledge! 🙏
Thank You for your work and your well informed insight. Yes those who can be charged with and convicted of crimes should be. Especially at the higher levels.
But for many jail may well reinforce their extremism and further their radicalization. Or just let them cool their heels in white collar summer camp.
There are many who will get a judicial slap on the wrist for their participation which they may well wear as a badge of honor.
None of which will help them become better citizens.
Lin, I'm not an expert on restorative justice, but my wife got into it for a time, and I read Rosenberg and participated in one RJ session. The deep flaw in this is that it requires community, a sense of community, and a valuing of that community, or at least the benefits it provides.
It doesn't work well (or at all) with psychopaths and narcissists. It doesn't work well on the "successful" within a capitalist system, because they can -- essentially -- buy their way out of community.
Were I a judge in this case, it would be incumbent upon me to carefully balance the scales of justice. I am not a judge. I am a citizen, and my tailfeathers are still on fire over this brutal rape of democracy. I'm going to stand by a swift and permanent justice.
"It doesn't work well (or at all) with psychopaths and narcissists. It doesn't work well on the "successful" within a capitalist system, because they can essentially buy their way out of community. . . I'm going to stand by a swift and permanent justice."
Restorative justice can help build community. Jail does not seem to work particularly well to protect us from recidivism by the super wealthy and other sociopaths.
As for what you term "swift and permanent justice" and by which I think you mean the death penalty - imposing it is neither swift nor permanent justice. It is endlessly appealed and adjudicated. And -in a system rife with race and class prejudice - slow has served justice by saving many, who were unjustly charged and convicted of hanging crimes, from state sponsored murder.
As a proponent of Restorative Justice never thought I could say that some people simply don't have the ability to "hear" others. I'm sure that I'm wrong but I wouldn't want to facilitate the Restorative Justice process for GQP members. I don't think I could handle it. But certainly it has great possibilities and potential.
Lin, criminals should pay their debt to society. I'm in agreement with kim WA - release the Black and Latino population that are doing jail time for marijuana and give the Benedict Arnolds long, long prison time.
Right. By waving a magic wand. Presto Chango. One prison population exchanged for another. Mission Accomplished.
Can we be serious for a moment?
The issue is about being a nation of laws. Of actually *administering* justice. Of doing the hard work fairly and well.
Our work is not to indulge in revenge fantasies. No matter how prettied up by appropriating serious issues of judicial reform for frivolous purposes.
Our work is to care enough to become a united electorate to put Democrats in office. Thanks to Rep. James Clyburn's brilliant and effective primary intervention, we got the job done in 2020. Now we get to do it all over again.
The Right doesn't need tiki torch parades to unite. After Perot, no Pied Piper pipe dreams for them. Republican VOTERS have kept their eyes on the prize of the Supreme Court and all of local, state, federal government, all along.
And it's paid off - for them.
At least some people took the lesson of the civil rights movement seriously - even if only to entirely undo it.
Can we match that? We see what happens when we don't
Lin, I agree with many of your points, but, revenge fantasy??
Is it really revenge to want those in power who broke our trust, violated their oaths and are actively trying to dismantle our institutions to be convicted? Justice has favored the powerful while punishing the poor for far too long. Is it wrong to hope for better?
And, yes, we work our butts off to get out the vote too.
Absolutely. Brought to justice - in the legislature and the courts is surely a goal.
But many here seem all in for hanging people for treason or locking them up for life - in some odd prisoner exchange to release unjustly convicted persons to make room for masses of Jan 6 conspirators. Like right now. They are writing of rough justice. When even assembling and reviewing the evidence is a massive undertaking.
The problem is the GOP keeps distracting us for doing meaningful work. We need serious reform in the whole justice system. Look at these men who are wrongfully convicted and sentenced to years in prison for a crime they didn't commit due to bad lawyers and judges. But the GOP keeps throwing out metaphorical grenades that cloud the air and cause mayhem. We do need to throw our own grenades somehow and cause mayhem for them.
More grenades and distraction are not what we need to bring to the fight. We need to deflect GOP schemes with more focus, diligence, and most of all more voters to elect more Democrats. Nancy Pelosi et al are doing their part to multitask, we need to do ours.
We are the Democratic Party and are not in disarray, as much as the media would like you to believe. We are a big tent party with lots of different opinions. If your local party is in disarray then work from inside to fix it, or join forces with Swing Left or Indivisible. Please don’t allow the media to convince you the Democrats are losers or it will be a self fulfilling prophecy
I think that if given the specific charge of defeating the GOP/Trumpism, they would rise together. The latest wrangling is lawmaking, and that is messy business regardless.
That would be ok if Justice worked that way - but it doesn't...... Look at old wily Steve Bannon-he has a court date of July 18th..... And the rest of the traitors are taking the 5th......
Note that "taking the fifth" is only a get-out-of-jail card IF the person is the only witness to the crime. They can still be prosecuted on the basis of evidence submitted by others.
These are criminal acts. These acts have nothing to do with Democrats or Republicans and cannot and should NOT be resolved by voting but by the Department of Justice.
You do know that the Attorney General of the Department of Justice is a political appointee of the duly elected President of the United States? And, of course "these acts" of insurrection have everything to do with the entire apparatus of the Republican party trying to install a Republican who lost the election and disqualify the Democrat who won the election?
No death penalty. But I would like to see TFG receive several 100 year sentences w/o possibility of parole. The cell would offer a long wall shelved with books that have no pictures. He would have no access to any media device. He would need to recite a paragraph from one of the books before his plate of broccoli is offered to him.
I would just like to see the evidence collected and the case made to convict Trump of the crimes he may be justly accused of. And if convicted that he receive the maximum sentence.
You have some reading to do—starting with Dark Money by Jane Mayer and The Shock Doctrine by Naomi Klein. The “Citizens United” decision would first have to be repealed and that won’t happen with a Repug Packed court. The death penalty for treason is the only good answer to address the evil behind fascism—and if you doubt evil exists, what circle in hell describes someone who abuses the power of leadership to further enormous suffering while reaping benefits of office?
I think your your notion that "The death penalty for treason is the only good answer to address the evil behind fascism" may be ill considered. And that we are less concerned here with evil, which the law does not concern itself with, than with criminality - for which the death penalty is an unthinking and ineffective response.
If you do want to consider evil and fascism then I am sorry you missed my references to Hannah Arendt's The Banality of Evil:
For when I speak of the banality of evil, I do so only on the strictly factual level, pointing to a phenomenon which stared one in the face at the trial. Eichmann was not Iago and not Macbeth, and nothing would have been farther from his mind than to determine with Richard III 'to prove a villain.' Except for an extraordinary diligence in looking out for his personal advancement, he had no motives at all… He merely, to put the matter colloquially, never realized what he was doing… It was sheer thoughtlessness—something by no means identical with stupidity—that predisposed him to become one of the greatest criminals of that period. And if this is 'banal' and even funny, if with the best will in the world one cannot extract any diabolical or demonic profundity from Eichmann, this is still far from calling it commonplace… That such remoteness from reality and such thoughtlessness can wreak more havoc than all the evil instincts taken together which, perhaps, are inherent in man—that was, in fact, the lesson one could learn in Jerusalem.
lin - please explain how voting (all) Republicans out of office can be accomplished given the legislation in 33 states that enables Republican election officials to reject citizens' votes if they don't like the election results (i.e. Democrats elected over Republicans). If I understand correctly, that can only occur if the Senate passes the For the People Act and the John Lewis Act. But, of course, as pointed out above, even those Congressional acts would likely be stalled by Republican party litigation.
Yes, for all the reasons you say, and then some, voting *all* Republicans out of office is not possible. But we must try to make as good a showing as possible. And document the proof of how these voter suppression laws obstruct voting.
I went out to Cleveland Ohio to volunteer for Kerry leading up to election day. On election day I was part of a mobile team looking in on polling places. It was the first time I saw first hand the inequitable distribution of voting machines. In rich white Republican neighborhoods there were machines lining the hallways, not even set up. In poor, diverse, Democratic leaning neighborhoods there were so few voting machines that people were lined up around the block for hours in on a cold rainy day. We brought them ponchos and hot drinks - which of course has been outlawed now.
Electing as many Democrats (and Democratic committed Independents such as Maine's Angus King) as possible is the goal.
Turnout by Democrats and Independents to vote remains crucial, especially in the states working to obstruct voters' intentions if Republican legislators or election officials don't want who voters have actually voted for.
I agree 100%, TC. Conspiracy to commit treason. Why should these serpents still be out on the street, or in their cushy Georgetown living rooms, comparing notes, getting their stories straight and continuing with the next phase of their plan to take power and never relinquish it? Do Democrats not understand that we will lose the right to express our political opinions under threat of internment if this creeping coup is not stopped dead in its tracks now? The USA will become Russia. We'll be back in the darkest of ages.
WE will be under Republican racist religious extremist kleptocrat rule unless WE unite to elect Democratic candidates at every level of government. WE need to vote strategically to maintain the Democratic majority. If there is to be any chance of seeing justice done. It is in OUR hands.
I agree, we all need to vote for Democrats. But we can also insist that our government institutions do their jobs in a timely fashion, specifically the DOJ needs to accelerate efforts to get dangerous criminals off the street: investigate, interrogate, arrest, preventive detention as necessary, trial, appropriate terms of imprisonment. You can be sure that Trump and his butt-kissers will have their day in court, and SCOTUS will have its say in the matter too. Failure to arrest these creeps now will lead to their success in the next -- largely gerrymandered -- elections. And that will be that. Remember how many Americans do not vote.
How could a state that has been gerrymandered to the nth degree elect Democrats? Ex: Wisconsin -Democrats won 53% of the votes, but 36% of the congressional seats. I live in NC where our electorate is purple. Our congressional delegation has 10 R’s and 3 D’s, by design. The author of that plan said he couldn’t figure out how to make the delegation only 2 D’s. My rep is a member of the sedition caucus.
I feel the same. And I found a pattern. TFG accuses the other side of what he is in fact guilty of, “rigging elections”. Gerrymandering is gaming the system. Now it’s possible the system is going to break.
Are you referring to section 2 of the 14th amendment? It’s been my experience that people tend to be dense. I think maybe there should be a law that expressly forbids gerrymandering. Partisan politicians drawing voting district boundaries are situations rife with abuse. A nonpartisan group should set district boundaries. Politicians don’t have enough integrity to draw voting boundaries.
Wisconsin has elected Democratic Gov. Tony Evers and Democratic Sen. Tammy Baldwin. Before the pandemic I spent time in Racine campaigning for them.
Yes they also have GOP Sen Ron Johnson. Here in Maine we also have Democratic Gov. Janet Mills and independent Sen. Angus King, but also the more wily but just as craven Republican Sen. Susan Collins.
Thanks for posting this. I have posted about Len's Political Notes couple of times in LFAA recently and got no traction. "Action is needed.." That is the key. I'll probably post it again in the morning, when there are fewer comments and see if it gets any looks.
I hear you! And, let it be announced from sea to shining sea every name and every crime they committed in headlines, TV and radio news, and internet information sites. Not one journalist, commentator, or any other news announcer gets to deviate from this truth.
From Goebbels. “It is vitally important for the state… to repress dissent, for the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus, the greatest enemy of the state.” In our case, chump would be the state, his plan anyway.
This Independent wonders I wonder why lots of January 6 small fry were arrested and federally prosecuted, but not the people who planned the coup and incited the small fry to make the coup work?
Why the Capitol police did not use deadly force to defend the Capitol and Congress members on January 6?
Why the U.S. Military did not come to the aid of the Capitol police?
Why Donald Trump, Mark Meadows, et. al. are not in federal custody being prosecuted for Treason?
I bet God wonders that, too.
I also wonder why Mike Pence and Mitch McConnel are not calling for federal prosecution of Donald Trump, Mark Meadows, et. al. for treason?
February 13, 2021:
WASHINGTON (AP) — In his speech Saturday from the Senate floor, Sen. Mitch McConnell delivered a scalding denunciation of Donald Trump, calling him “morally responsible” for the Jan. 6 attack on the U.S. Capitol.
But in his vote on Trump’s impeachment, McConnell said “not guilty” because he said a former president could not face trial in the Senate.
Washington’s most powerful Republican and the Senate’s minority leader used his strongest language to date to excoriate Trump minutes after the Senate acquitted the former president, voting 57-43 to convict him but falling short of the two-thirds majority needed to find him guilty. Seven Republicans voted to convict.
Clearly angry, the Senate’s longest-serving GOP leader said Trump’s actions surrounding the attack on Congress were “a disgraceful, disgraceful dereliction of duty.” He even noted that though Trump is now out of office, he remains subject to the country’s criminal and civil laws.
“He didn’t get away with anything yet,” said McConnell, who turns 79 next Saturday and has led the Senate GOP since 2007.
Article III, Section III of the US Constitution:
Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort. No person shall be convicted of Treason unless on the Testimony of two Witnesses to the same overt Act, or on Confession in open Court.
The Congress shall have Power to declare the Punishment of Treason, but no Attainder of Treason shall work Corruption of Blood, or Forfeiture except during the Life of the Person attainted.
PUNISHMENT FOR TREASON AS DECIDED BY CONGRESS:
§2381. Treason
Whoever, owing allegiance to the United States, levies war against them or adheres to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort within the United States or elsewhere, is guilty of treason and shall suffer death, or shall be imprisoned not less than five years and fined under this title but not less than $10,000; and shall be incapable of holding any office under the United States.
They (FBI, 1/6 Commission) are working up the chain to the bigger fish. Notice that TFG never gives an order but "suggests" it would be nice if thus and thus happened. WOW mob boss 101. Do not be held accountable for anything. Before he was elected, we all knew he was a bully and he proved it over and over.
In the long term, you’re right. The bosses need to be punished just like their henchmen. The reason I added “in the long term” is that it’s much easier to investigate and convict the guy who pulled the trigger than the boss. The boss wasn’t there. The connections between the boss and the event are harder to prove. We need persistence and patience.
A good friend ongoing reports dreams in which he is show and told stuff by angels. He called this morning to report being told in a dream last night that a demon will get Trump off. He also told me that it's all over today's news, that the congressional committee released that Meadows had spread around that the National Guard would protect any Trump supporters on January 6. My friend sent this link:
In fact, Trump is possessed by a demon, and his enablers likewise, and that possession is contagious and has infiltrated MAGAdom and most of Republicandom, and eerily tracks the same happening with Hitler and his top aides and the German masses in the 1930s.
So, I do truly hope President Biden's AG and Department of Justice do not tarry.
My friend reported a few days ago, that he was told in a dream that Kamala Harris fell out of favor with President Biden, after she attempted a coup of her own, by trying to make something of him not taking a mental acuity test of some kind. I knew something had happened, and my friend and I had discussed wondering what it was, and then he had that dream.
Lordy, I know the cult is “possessed” but had no idea…. However I do know that repub strategy of late “eerily tracks the same happening with Hitler and his top aides and the German masses in the 30’s.”
Nor by the MSM, who keep blathering about republicans like they are reluctant participants in a normal government. If they don’t acknowledge that they are the destroyers of our government, I hate to think of the consequences.
Have very good friend, Republican, U.S. Army Special Forces combat veteran, who told me the people who assaulted the Capitol on January 6 all should have been shot dead. In fact, the law would clearly allow the Capitol police to use deadly force to protect both the Capitol and the Congress members inside, just as the law allows a homeowner or business owner to use deadly force to repel a burglar, robber, etc. I learned that in criminal law 101 in law school. Yet my friend, who voted twice for Trump, did not say Trump should have been shot dead, too.
At the very least, a blood bath was impractical. And would have significantly delayed confirmation of the Electoral College vote. In fact it might have created the conditions under which Trump could have declared martial law.
Oh right, assassinating Trump is part of this picture. So no problem.
OK that is the limit of my ability to respond reasonably to the suggestion that to 'open fire' in the crowded cramped space of the Capitol on Jan 6 - makes any fr!&&€n sense at all. This is my head exploding.
Knowing our dear Hitler Wannabe as we do, they will build a plush jail cell at MAGA Lago just for him. Regular beautician visits by whoever produces those orange Dayglo toupees and fake tans.
Here in Palm Beach County where Mar-a-Lago is located, we are experiencing an invasion of iguanas. It should be noted that during their mating season, the spikes on the backs of the males of this otherwise green and gray species turn to a bright orange, just the color of the former president's hair or hair piece. Just a humorous aside regarding the Iguana-in-Chief on an otherwise pessimistic day.
While reading Heather's article, I had a reaction in my gut--the list of people and their lawyers should be taken for questioning to "gitmo". After reading your comment, I agree that something of consequence should happen to these people. SOON
I honestly don't know what would be justice here. But if we lock them all up it would cement the break between ideologies. I would want, in any case, the impossibility of any of them to run again for office -- maybe a settlement. And for TFG to lose his businesses and his big pension for life, as well as all the other office holders. This doesn't bring justice to all the lawyers, corporate enablers, team player staff, and assorted flunkies like bannon. How does that work? What happens to them? It looks like the Committee is going to drop a mother-of-all-bombs on the country! We can't just vote the politicians out and let the others walk. I don't think we CAN vote them all out with the present mess they've made of elections.
We need an overhaul of the entire government and especially the judiciary. The buggers are using the judicial system to remove rights and destroy rest of the government. What kind of violence would ensue?
We are way, WAY past just voting them out to fix what is already broken....
A good start would be stopping the purveyors of disinformation. A modern “Fairness Doctrine” would be step one. The lies are destroying democracies around the world.
Do something about Facebook. Maria Resa pointed out the danger that Facebook under Zuckerberg poses. Facebook employees pointed out its dangers as well. Why should Zuckerberg add to his wealth at the country’s expense?
Since this is the gang that doesn’t believe that women have a right to their own body, why shouldn’t a vasectomy be part of the sentence for all these scurrilous culprits?
You seem to be clipping along this day. We'd be able to recognize them as they raise their acquired Contra-Soprano voices in harmony. Or, did I confuse a snip with the big clip on this lovely Winters morn? 🤫
All we know from this posting is that a team of Trump associates were looking for legal, constitutional ways to undo the election. As far as I know, there is no evidence YET that they were planning to break the law. It is not a crime to look for legal loopholes. You don’t go to lawyers to plan a violent revolution. We still need more hard evidence before we can indict. I am not a lawyer.
Stanley, I don't think they were looking for a violent revolution. They were (and still are) trying to exploit -- and invent -- weaknesses in our Constitution so as to take power illegitimately and undemocratically, but without having to fire a shot, hoping that most Americans are too distracted by the details of their lives to mount any serious or concerted opposition.
They are betting we have become fat and lazy and as self-centered and greedy and ethics-less as they are. Projection and cynicism on steroids. To be honest, there is genius in it. But there also seems to be abundant evidence that they have attempted (and conspired) to do something that is clearly unconstitutional and are now doubling down on that, and the fact that they now own the SCOTUS greases the skids.
Is any of this illegal? I, too, am not a lawyer, but all this strikes me as even worse than mere illegality as it threatens to replace our democracy (defective as it may be) with authoritarianism aspiring soon enough to become totalitarianism. And even though COVID is disproportionately killing many of their most fervid supporters, they could not have chosen a better way to distract us from what they are up to as they ride a wave of their own useful idiocy.
Hitler decided against violent overthrow after a little jail time and then decided to work within the system. Wasn’t long before he had the power to legitimize every evil act that came to his putrid mind. All you doubters refresh your Hitler history. They follow it to the nth degree.
Seriously? Republicans were not looking for a violent revolution? The same Republicans who: introduced "lock and load" as a campaign slogan; who've played footsie with the type of armed militias which created Timothy McVeigh, the Bundys, and most recently Kyle Rittenhouse. Those Republicans wanted to stick to procedural take down of democracy and draw the line at sacking the Capitol? The Republicans like Glock Girl Lauren Boebert strutting her strap on at the Capitol? The Republicans who for decades have said you need assault weapons to revolt against government tyranny?
Lin, my comment is about what I believe Trump and the GOP are trying to do. I do not believe their preferred way of getting perpetual power is to engage in "violent revolution". That would involve too much hard work and personal danger. If they started rolling truck bombs into peaceful crowds and assassinating Democratic leaders, I would, no doubt, change my mind. But, I think they will be satisfied with winning/stealing back the House and Senate in 2022, ruining the Biden presidency and then solidifying the racist, xenophobic, misogynistic, planet-hating, corrupt and otherwise moronic status quo so many Americans seem to like and are even proud of.
Of course, in a country such as ours where ordinary citizens can easily arm themselves to the teeth with (nearly) military quality weapons, it is hard to imagine that the GOP's creeping coup will be violence free, and the mere threat of violence is already freaking out peace-loving Democrats as expected. Sure, we are right to be freaked out, but McVeigh got what he deserved, Bundy was a loner nut-case, poor Kyle Rittenhouse is just a poorly raised child in late adolescence, and Lauren Boebert is a carnival act intended to irritate the libs.
I think Merrick Garland needs to connect some different dots and begin arresting folks and call their bluff. I expect many of them will end up whimpering and begging for mercy.
On the other hand, if the SCOTUS is truly bought and paid for already, then we are faced with a done deal, and getting out the vote will not change anything. Yes, pretty depressing.
You have, I think, a very high bar for "engaging in violent revolution" and a very blinkered view of the facts.
Republican officials are not content with procedural violence just as their plutocrat paymasters are not content with deregulation. Both want to be entirely unburdened of the burden of constitutional law - to their racist prejudices and violent proclivities as well as their rapacious profit taking.
Well, Lin, "violent revolution" usually ends up involving standing armies -- or at least bands of guerillas -- slaughtering each other and even larger numbers of non-combatants. Kyle Rittenhouse is a punk and should never have been allowed to have a gun, but he is hardly a danger to the Republic. And we do not yet know to what depths Republicans and their plutocrat paymasters will sink, though we may find out fairly soon, likely before the 2022 elections.
Of course you and I probably agree about most everything, so why should we bicker about the details? I certainly hope that getting out a big DEM vote in 2022 will send the crazies packing. All will be revealed.
David, Was the mob attack on The Capitol a non-violent demonstration, which the former president did not seek the quell because it was simply a peaceable assembly? Is it possible that he didn't join them on their march to the capital as he had promised because his feet were tired, maybe it was due to a recurring bone spur issue.
Fern, I have little doubt the former President is a coward and likely feels faint at the sight of blood. I also think he had a number of competing delusional notions of what was really supposed to happen that day whirling around in his tiny brain. Further, I am not convinced he is in control of himself, though it remains unclear who is actually pulling his strings.
The numbskulls assaulting the Capitol were rather lucky they didn't cause a violent police (or National Guard) response. Hundreds might have died. This does not detract from the serious crimes many of them committed and should be punished for. A few may have even learned an important lesson or two.
Hi David, good of you to respond. I am not one to speculate about the subsequent learnings of those who unlawfully entered and attacked The Capitol, the mental condition of the former president or his accessories, working ceaselessly to turn the USA into an autocracy. The country's leadership and the means to lawfully stop this growing 'cancer' appear to be moving much more slowly than those who are dismantling democracy. The use of violence as well as the manipulation of election processes and other functions of government cannot be ruled out. Citizens and pro-democracy organizations know the urgency of this matter.
'On June 21, 1788 nine out of the thirteen existing states ratified the United States Constitution, thus officially establishing the country’s independence and a new form of government. Based on the date of the constitution, which is still in place, the United States is the oldest democracy in the world.' (oldest.org)
But our lives have been changing. The social discord, civil unrest, violence in the streets, the schools, the stores, etc., and the war within families have mushroomed. The loss of equality for all and the democratic principles, which we have been working toward for centuries may be too difficult for too many to absorb, but it is happening here and now.
The National Guard didn’t respond because someone inside the Pentagon prevented them from getting there. There were too many coincidental breaches to o ignore.
Lin, I and afraid as never before of what’s going on in our country. In order to be a nation of laws, we must operate legally and separate proven facts from suspicions. Yes, Giuliani a mob lawyer, but it was not illegal to go to him. Executives go to lawyers all the time and ask, “What are my options?” That’s not a crime. What they do with that advice is when crimes might be committed.
TCinLA, could you be specific? Did anyone in this chain say, “Not one of the things they considered was illegal”? Do you think it’s illegal to ask a lawyer to come up with options? Do you think it’s illegal to plan a violent attack if no action comes from that plan? Are you a lawyer?
I don’t know about that. Remember Trump’s “ will be wild?” invite for the 6th? They knew which windows at the Capitol weren’t secure, and they went armed. Not so legal.
That's what I've been thinking. That all this talk of overthrowing is not an actual crime or wrongdoing however much it should be. But I am not a lawyer. We need a lawyer here to spell out the possibilities.
Short answer: "Actively planning such an action (distributing guns, working out the logistics of an attack, actively opposing lawful authority, etc.) could be considered a seditious conspiracy." It hinges on whether there was imminent threat.
Keep in mind, the Pentagon delay in allowing the National Guard to respond, allowed the riot to escalate to a point that just clearing the Capitol without shooting was the difficult mission and as no logistics were in place for arrests, the militia trained and affiliated armed insurrectionists slipped away.
Unlike, in preparation for the peaceful anti Kavanaugh protests, when in the Capitol parking lot, many paddy wagons were on hand.
"The Brandenburg v. Ohio U.S. Supreme Court decision maintains that seditious speech—including speech that constitutes an incitement to violence—is protected by the First Amendment to the United States Constitution as long as it does not indicate an "imminent" threat."The federal law against seditious conspiracy can be found in Title 18 of the U.S. Code (which includes treason, rebellion, and similar offenses), specifically 18 U.S.C. § 2384. According to the statutory definition of sedition, it is a crime for two or more people within the jurisdiction of the United States:
To conspire to overthrow or destroy by force the government of the United States or to level war against them;
To oppose by force the authority of the United States government; to prevent, hinder, or delay by force the execution of any law of the United States; or
To take, seize, or possess by force any property of the United States contrary to the authority thereof.
Free Speech, Sedition, and Treason
"In order to get a conviction for seditious conspiracy, the government must prove that the defendant in fact conspired to use force. Simply advocating for the use of force is not the same thing and in most cases is protected as free speech under the First Amendment.For example, two or more people who give public speeches suggesting the need for a total revolution "by any means necessary" have not necessarily conspired to overthrow the government. Rather, they're just sharing their opinions, however unsavory. *But actively planning such an action (distributing guns, working out the logistics of an attack, actively opposing lawful authority, etc.) could be considered a seditious conspiracy.*
Not all things wrong are illegal. Men and women of good conscience will have to call out and confront the evil which is at the core of the intent to subvert and replace our form of democracy. The weight of public opinion and argument as to right and wrong are also core to faith in a way of life, laws that are just, institutions we establish to ensure continuity, and courts that seek justice, not merely prosecution of a legal case that may not yet have the established precedents upon which to resolve evil as a matter only of written laws.
It all came down to Pence. Imagine if Pence had gone along with the coup. Imagine if he had questioned some states’ results, suspended the vote, and thrown the election to the House. After watching Pence kowtow to Trump for four years, it’s astonishing that he told Trump no.
Lindsey Graham knew the plan before Jan 6th. So did Kevin McCarthy, and other Republican leaders. They said nothing, did nothing to stop it. They were waiting to see how it played out. They would have gone along. No wonder McCarthy didn’t want there to be a Jan 6th Commission.
And now we know why Trump refused to intervene Jan 6th, why he waited for hours before saying anything to stop the rioters. The riot was part of his strategy. He was hoping the count would be delayed long enough that it couldn’t be completed on Jan 6th.
Imagine if Trump had replaced Pence before the election with a more craven Veep - Kristi Noem, say. We’d be living today under the reign of Trump. With constant protests and riots, and the National Guard in the streets. We came closer to this than we dare think.
power and money is enough for Manchin, 40 years in West Virginia politics and he has done very very little for the people. West Virginia is in the bottom 10th percentile for child poverty, infrastructure, education, healthcare including maternal, child and infant mortality. corporate pollution, air and water quality, water accessibility...he does not really care.
Just like his neighbor, McConnell, who cons his constituents into believing he doing great things for them. Meanwhile the only thing improving is his bank account while the state continues its downward spiral
Paul jumped in immediately to send a letter to Biden asking him to approve aid requested by the Governor. Suddenly all the NO votes on disaster aid for hurricanes and fires are ignored when he needs to put on a show for his constituents. Where does he think the money would have come from since he turned down any funding. He even voted NO for 9/11 survivors funds. The GOP always has their hands out for this “socialism” they’ve been screaming is wrong as soon as it affects them.
Yes, a young, inspriing candidate to make sure that the Republicans win Manchin's seat. Manchin is irreplaceable until Democrats get 54 or 56 senators.
West Virginia U. is 248th among accredited colleges and universities. Not something to get excited about. Many among the population have forlorn looks of despair. Manchin is happy to walk across the bodies of the disenfranchised; or at the very least, those who believe themselves to be disenfranchised.
It is closer than 2024. If we lose the House and/or the Senate in 2022 the Republicans will do everything they can to hobble Biden and enact some really ant-iDemocratic laws. Simply put. We are running out of time folks.
What is highly disturbing to me, as I see it, is how many Americans (including some in Congress) do not see the gravity of this moment. With the likes of Bannon and Gaetz promoting the theme of 4,000 "storm troopers", shock and vigilance should become operatives.
Easy. $500K/year. It's what drives them all - profit over people if you will and BTW never mind the planet. Remember this: karma is a bitch and she is supremely pissed.
ted, I’m guessng you’re referring to Manchin's support for the proposed voting, campaign donation and gerrymandering bill. A couple of points:
1. Nobody in WVa would cheer Manchin if he voted to end the filibuster so this bill could pass. Most WVa voters (WVa went 68% for Trump in 2020) would consider Manchin a Chamberlain if he voted to end the filibuster.
2. Even if the For the People bill is passed, most of it will be undone by the Supreme Court in the inevitable lawsuits. Said court has already ruled that gerrymandering is fine and dandy, that corporate campaign donations and dark money can’t be regulated, and SCOTUS has already gutted the original (similar to For the People) Voting Rights Act. The Roberts court is all for ending democracy in support of their Republican sponsors.
I doubt few if any W. Virginians would even understand the reference to "Chamberlain". As to the SC, that Court lost its objectivity long ago. The Roberts Court defers to the Roman Church.
As for the Stench Court, not exactly. They are thoroughly out of sync with Pope Francis. They defer to far right wing branches of both Protestant and Roman Christianity.
Agreed. Perhaps I was too "broad brush", but with some members of the Court belonging to Opus Dei, a highly controversial RC secret organization, defining lines become blurred. And, yes, Protestants (think evangelicals) are just as bad.
Not just W. Virginians. Everyone can blame Joe for his inaction, historians will get it right. Joe has been bought, corrupted by accepting oil and gas lobby campaign donations, and leaving education to rot in his state. If Joe could do the right thing here, then the court could be enlarged.
Yeah, but does Manchin care about history, or doing the right thing, or what we think? It doesn’t seem so. Such self-serving disregard puts him on a long list of current politicians who are happy to do the wrong thing if it benefits them and keeps them in power, history be damned. Ted Cruz. Matt Gaetz. Lindsey Graham. Mark Meadows. Trump. MTG. DeSantis. Greg Abbott. Grassley. Gosar. Mo Brooks. Jim Jordan. McConnell. Hawley. Cotton. And on and on. There are maybe a half-dozen Republicans (Cheney, Kinzinger, Meijer) who actually believe in democracy, and who think their party is on the road to autocracy. The rest are a bunch of craven hacks. Manchin, token Democrat, gets lost in the crowd.
We’re naive for thinking that all that flag-waving stuff about democracy matters to these folks. It doesn’t, it’s just window dressing.
JJ, I’m afraid not. Congress had already passed Voter Rights and Campaign Finance laws. This Supreme Court ruled them unconstitutional. That’s how we got Texas restricting voter access in 2020. That’s how we got Citizen’s United. The Supreme Court also ruled that gerrymandering is legal, signaling that if Congress passes a law outlawing gerrymandering, SCOTUS would also rule that it can’t be enforced. SCOTUS has ruled against most everything in the Power to the People act, in previous cases. They will likely do so again, if that bill ever passes.
He and his family built their "empire" on the backs of coal miners. His son and daughter each have very lucrative positions. He is rightfully dubbed "Manchinema" at this point.
Pence was under unbelievable pressure. I believe from reporting that it was his conversation with Dan Quail (an perhaps other convos like it) that pulled him back to reason from the precipice of treason.
And we know why donald didn't march with them or arrive once they were in control of the rooms....he couldn't be a physical part of the delay - just the trigger. I always wondered if the insurgents felt used once their dear leader failed to show up. I'm sure they thought he would match into the theater and take charge. Everyone seemed to be waiting for what to do next...because THEY had no plan for post takeover. Fortunately Pence did not have Steve Bannon's lust for attention or Meadow's anbition. Imagine if the Republicans had thought up a loophole where they could have replaced Pence! Now if Pence had gone to the FBI would he be a hero? Well he didn't. So he is just a coward to his cause and he was part of the coup even though he wasn't willing to sacrifice himself in battle.
A number of them said they assumed he was at the front or walking along with him - remember it was a big crowd and they didn't expect to necessarily be able to see him just because he was down somewhere at the far side of the group walking... as if.
From what I remember the Vice President refused to abandon the Capitol on Jan 6. And you have to wonder at what point did he first learn that the mob was chanting “Hang Mike Pence.”
Also don’t forget the aides who grabbed the ballots as they were being rushed off the floor that day. Had the ballots been destroyed or stolen then the certification process could have been halted and delayed.
I assume all but the proud boys and they would have run the hanging....which they would not have done to Pence. He might have gone to the stocks. I was never worried for him. I was worried for Nancy Pelosi and the non white Democrats.
Graham is a sneaking snake, but this once, he may have done the right thing. Heather wrote that Graham, in his role as head of the Judiciary Committee, demanded "proof" that the election was stolen when the plan to overturn the election was revealed to him and others on January 2nd. Granted, it's not much, but his impersonation of a "speed bump" may have slowed things down.
It slowed nothing...it was verbal CYA for the record. He was totally on board. The key statement in this is...they all knew donald's plan and not one of the. Went to the FBI... Not even the head of the judicial committee went to the FBI! What is the legal aspects of knowing an overthrow of the US Government is being planned and the people that took an oath to uphold the constitution violated their oath? Wasn't it their job to stop the would be tyrant? Holy cow...anyone that had the memo and discussed which was the best approach to implementing the insurrection should be put on trial. At least half of the Republican house and Senate should be impeached. Then while their seats are hot but empty....pass the effing voting rights bills.
Easier said than done. It has to be done incrementally. First step is to eliminate the 'filibuster' in the Senate, then make sure Democratic control of both Houses is maintained in 2022. Failing that, what you suggest won't happen for generations. In 2022, Dems must get out the vote.
Graham Cracker demanded proof? This Crumbling Cracker once excoriated Tubby Trump and was the best buddy of John McCain. He sold his soul to play golf with the Dastardly Dotard. The only good thing about this over-toasted waffle is that he is a bachelor and, so far, hasn’t contributed to the gene pool.
What's astonishing is that the players at the center of this conspiracy to overthrow the US government and usurp power from the incoming president not only feel no shame but are doubling down by ignoring subpoenas and making false claims of immunity. And, even worse, they're getting away with it. I have to wonder if there is any other country in the world where a former leader can foment an insurrection and pressure officials to lie and defy legal precedent to hold on to power and then brazenly continue to undermine the legitimacy of his successor- and face no consequences. Trump is reputed to have once said he could shoot someone in public in New York City and get away it. But that's nothing compared to what he's getting away with now.
Richard, Regrettably, the foregoing behaviors, replete with impunity, are indicative of a backsliding democracy. That said, everyday citizens need to determine how to spread their attention between the attempt to overthrow the last election and efforts currently underway to use the big lie as groundwork for changing election rules to change who can be in charge, how votes are counted, how they’re certified, and so forth.
Thank you for the timeline of how the coup was planned. Everyone of those in Congress who knew are insurrectionists and unfaithful to their oaths to uphold the Constitution. This makes my hair stand on end.
Then there are those Repubs who have fallen lockstep behind their “leader” promoting the “Big Lie“ and hoping vigorous denials will sail them through….where does their complicity fall?
Then was there a central coordinator everyone was working with? The whole thing seems helter skelter at this point. I imagine the January 6 Committee has all the moving parts. We just don't know them yet.
Donald John Trump, Dirtbag Extraordinaire and would be Dictator. There’s a reason that he studied Hitler when he was with still with Ivana back in the late 80s
And when will they all be handcuffed, arrested, tried, and thrown in jail for life? WHEN? Each one of these traitors are still a danger to our country!
"A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murderer is less to fear."
Thank you Heather for yet another excellent Letter that connects the dots. Today the Tampa Bay Times printed my letter to the editor that attempts to follow your example on a much smaller scale:
UF president needs to answer report findings | Editorial, Dec. 8
Gov. Ron DeSantis has very publicly positioned himself as the defender of our freedom to choose (anything but abortion, of course). And then he quietly takes away our access to accurate data, on which to base our choices: (1) Daily COVID updates are now weekly; (2) Location of outbreaks (schools, hospitals, nursing homes, businesses, government offices) are no longer released, even to those who work there; (3) No information is posted on the percentage of breakthrough infections; (4) No state public service announcements encouraging masks and vaccines; (5) And now state pressure on researchers and universities to destroy data that contradicts the governor and Legislature. This isn’t freedom, folks. This is the behavior of wannabe autocrats who are systematically suppressing our freedom to know, while pretending to champion it. It’s an old playbook and a very dangerous one.
Thanks to all for your encouragement! I’ve had many letters to the editor published over the years, but, none of my recent ones criticizing DeSantis until now. It felt like a victory.
Great letter, Diane! What's important is that it reached a quarter of a million readers which I believe is the TBT's daily circulation. (That's far more than HCR gets here each day.) Others should do the same!
I agree with your guesstimate -- she's done a lot of good for all of us with these letters. I wish she had more subscribers, in every area of the nation, and in all walks of life. She's teaching us the history of the country, good, bad, ugly and beautiful, without "slant" or "spin," which is what the best historians invariably do.
I've learned more history in the past two years from the LfaA than I did in my 17 years of formal education, plus any time since in my (now) long life.
That Florida Surgeon General is a few cards short of a full deck. The Tallahassee Democrat did a fact-check on Ladapo's public statements:
"“Remember when people were telling you that these vaccines would stop transmission and the rate of protection was greater than 90%? Ten months later we’re finding that the rate of protection is less than 40% than some of them. This idea that we are foolish for not believing things we don't have data for is ridiculous. People need to stick to their intuition and sensibilities.”
The fact-check disagrees: "The Pfizer, Moderna and Johnson & Johnson vaccines were all rigorously tested before the FDA gave emergency use authorization last November. Pfizer and Moderna, which are mRNA vaccines, were found to be 85% effective against infection and 95% effective against hospitalization or death, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention said. The Johnson & Johnson vaccine was found to be 65% effective against infection and 85% against hospitalization or death, the CDC said."
Ladapo said, “The infections will happen whether people are vaccinated or not. That’s obvious. First, experts said breakthrough infections were rare, but that isn’t the case. They’re obviously not rare. They’re common, that's the truth.”
The fact-checkers addressed this, too:
"Not according to the CDC, Johns Hopkins and recent medical research.
"Breakthrough cases are very rare, according to a recent study in the New England Journal of Medicine. It published a study of breakthroughs among a group of healthcare workers at the largest hospital in Israel. Of the 1,497 vaccinated workers tested, only 2.6% were positive for COVID-19, far lower than the rate for the entire country."
Ladapo, again, "“You hear these stories. People telling you what’s been happening in their lives. Nurses, pregnant women are sort of being forced to put something in their bodies we don't know all there is to know about yet no matter what people on TV tell you. It’s just not true. We are going to learn more about the truth of these vaccines."
The fact-checkers disagree: "The vaccine is highly recommended for pregnant and lactating women as well as those trying to get pregnant, the CDC said. Symptomatic pregnant people who contract COVID-19 are more at risk of severe illness, complications and death than those who are not pregnant, Johns Hopkins University reported."
“There isn't doubt about the risk-benefit ratio,” Nissola said.
The "Nissola" referenced here is Dr. Leo Nissola, Leo Nissola, MD, is a medical doctor, immunologist, scientist, and cancer researcher focused on drug development. Former Medical Oncology fellow at the University of Texas MD Anderson Cancer Center in Houston, where he served the clinical team supporting prostate cancer (FIH/I-3) clinical trials.
Currently, he is an Advisor in the Coronavirus pandemic, advising Health and Elected United States officials to prepare for and mitigate risks of COVID-19. Recently, at the Parker Institute for Cancer Immunotherapy, Dr. Nissola designed the world's first-ever immunotherapy platform study for advanced prostate cancer, collaborating with America's most prestigious academic institutions.
But that doesn't seem to faze Joseph Ladapo at all, in his bid to curry favor with Ron DeSantis.
There are more of Ladapo's statements and fact-checks in the article. Well worth reading.
I am sure this will sound somewhat pathetic compared to the well-written, articulate comments already written, but I cried while I read this post by HCR, just like I cried while I watched the news video of the insurrection on news video on January 6th. How can this happen?? How can we stop this radical right-wing takeover of our country? This isn't who we are or should be. May God bless America and bring us back to the strong nation we were and should always be. I will be actively working to support & fund voting rights to the extent that I can. We cannot let the right wing takeover in 2022 and 2024.
Sadly, MJ, this is who we are and have been since we started telling ourselves fairytales about how wonderful the USA is. We need to start looking at our sins that began to accumulate long before the 1619 importation of Africans to this continent.
Until someone makes an update, I'm in favor of giving every schoolchild a copy of A People's History of the United States with thanks to Howard Zinn.
Within the last week or so, someone made a comment here regarding Germany and another country (how is that for a demonstration of how a 60+ year old brain works on insufficient caffeine?) and their rejection of the abuses their government had engineered.
The US needs to acknowledge the near extermination of the Indigenous Population upon its arrival on this continent and the enslavement of Blacks since 1619 is what built this country's foundation, and vow to repair/rebuild/restore what was taken from these peoples in order to build this country. Then, and only then, will we recover from this morass.
Rosalind I so agree with you. When people ask “what good is it to understand our history and to go that far back?” I think it serves two very important purposes:
1) it makes us less arrogant and more humble as we move around in the world.
2) and by acknowledging our past sins (many of which are still happening now,) we are able to make changes.
My tears may not come as easily as yours, but my heart breaks. Thank you for your work and support! Our future, what we may have of it, depends upon you and people like you.
Curious where you find the hope in it? It terrifies me. These people are going to be in charge of the whole show again a year from now unless every person in this readership starts phonebanking and post-carding and getting out the vote in the many states where it's now much harder to vote than in 2020--and even then the gerrymandered redistricting may make Democratic wins impossible.
Knowledge is always the first step. Clamoring for every news source to make the PowerPoint front and center of their megaphones all next week would be time we’ll used.
The hope is in the shining of light. A timeline of the attempted coup made public means that the entire world is now putting attention on these crimes. Sure it’s terrifying. But knowledge is power, like Christy says
That we know is unfortunately pretty meaningless in light of the stranglehold put in place to keep the 73 million who refuse to know voting in the dark. The days of revelation are over. But not the days of busting our asses to get out the vote where it’s been made so hard. It is still technically possible to win a couple new House members and save the others. IF everyone gets to work. Now!
Mary you’re wonderful. It is dedication like yours that produced the January 5 Georgia miracle, my term for two underdog Democrat challengers, a Jewish man and a black man, unseating two white incumbent Republican senators and turning the Senate blue by the slimmest of margins. It is difficult to draw any other conclusion except that Stacey Abrams and Voto Latino and others somehow produced that miracle by getting out the vote. By all means maintain that passion and fire and inspire people to join you.
Interesting--you read the US version? I wonder if I could read the Australian version? What I most wish I could read is the UK version. I grew up there, lived there again as an adult, am very interested in UK news. But it won't send me that now!
You bet she's right. It all hangs on the "unless". We went through this for so long for a good three years - singing funny songs, laughing with Randy Rainbow, and John Oliver, staying focused and determined, and so we WON, and then look what happened.
I think an important thing to keep in mind is the untold number of executive agency and legislative branch employees whose names we will probably never know, for whom this all was just another day at the office. Who were just beavering away at their jobs, taking care of the mundane details of overthrowing the government.
The procedural violence to regular order and institutional norms has been GOP business as usual since Newt Gingrich and is perhaps best personified by Mitch McConnell. The Republican attack on constitutional law, epitomized by the GOP insurrection on Jan 6, is not possible without an entire scaffolding propping it up. In this case, the entire apparatus of the Republican party and each person it employs.
Keep talking. Volunteer for your local Democratic committee. Volunteer on individual Democratic campaigns. Volunteer with the League of Women Voters. Volunteer with organizations like the Sierra Club on letter writing initiatives. . .
I'm in Fairlight, transferring to Stacey, and still in Indivisible GA10. Regular donor to several candidates, transferring all money to Stacey and Warnock . By midyear 22 I will have legally maxed out to both of them.
You want me to write some postcards? Been there, done that. Sorry I'm being sarcastic. Doing all I can.
The real American contribution to the art of corruption is our ability to corrupt whole systems so that otherwise honest or unsuspecting people get caught up in nefarious activities either unwittingly or in order to remain employed (or even employable).
Thank you for this clear summation of the plot to overthrow the government. We are living through an historical crisis point. May we have the will and courage to do what is necessary---the enemy has been at work for years. The Democrats and all true Patriots (not the Fake Patriots) need to get to work. Messaging by Schumer; Messaging by Pelosi; Messaging by DNC --- Absolutely.Necessary.NOW! They are failures so far. May they finally wake up before it really is too late.
California Governor Gavin Newsome pledges to use latest SCOTUS decision supported by Conservative majority to make a point showing the danger of states enacting laws to defy federal rights. If states can restrict women’s reproductive rights, then that same approach can be used to restrict the sale of assault weapons and ghost guns. Tit for tat, you reap what you sow. This was forecast to happen following SCOTUS decision this week. The dissenters to the decision predicted it, including Chief Justice Roberts.
California Gov. Gavin Newsom said Saturday he will push for a new law modeled on Texas’ abortion ban that would let private citizens sue anyone who makes or sells assault weapons or ghost guns.
Newsom has excoriated the Texas law for limiting women’s access to abortion by allowing people to sue anyone who “aids or abets” one performed after about six weeks, before many women know they are pregnant. Nevertheless, he said the Supreme Court’s decision Friday to let the law stay in effect while legal challenges proceed has opened an avenue for states to circumvent federal courts.
In a statement Saturday evening, Newsom pointed to a recent federal court decision to strike down California’s assault weapons ban. In his decision, a judge compared assault weapons to Swiss Army knives, language Newsom has harshly criticized.
“I am outraged by yesterday’s U.S. Supreme Court decision allowing Texas’s ban on most abortion services to remain in place,” Newsom said. “But if states can now shield their laws from review by the federal courts that compare assault weapons to Swiss Army knives, then California will use that authority to protect people’s lives, where Texas used it to put women in harm’s way.”
Newsom said he will work with his staff, the Legislature and California Attorney General Rob Bonta to craft a bill that would let citizens sue anyone who “manufactures, distributes, or sells an assault weapon or ghost gun kit or parts” in California. They could seek damages of at least $10,000 per violation plus costs and attorney’s fees, Newsom said.
“If the most efficient way to keep these devastating weapons off our streets is to add the threat of private lawsuits, we should do just that,” said Newsom, a longtime advocate of strict gun control laws.
California has banned the manufacture and sale of many assault-style weapons for decades. A federal judge overturned that ban in June, ruling it was unconstitutional and drawing the ire of the state's Democratic leaders by comparing the popular AR-15 rifle to a Swiss Army knife as "good for both home and battle." California's ban remained in place while the state appealed.
Newsom is not perfect but he’s done a fantastic job at the important stuff. Homeless were gotten off the street during the pandemic and so many other things. We got Covid under control with his restrictions and plans. I don’t care if he went to a fancy dinner during Covid or if he lives in his own home instead of the Governor’s mansion. I care about his policies for the people of the state. People that fuss about these other things are jealous. We all know most politicians are elected because they are wealthy and have a wide range of influential backers.
Even Kavanaugh forecast this effect, but seems to have sided with chaos in the judiciary, spilling over into legislation. I try to imagine the scenarios where these justices plot out their decisions - Thomas’s kitchen? Over drinks in chambers? In concrete bunkers?
I have to get used to "nothing is enough". What you have written in this letter listing all the who and when and what we know so far about the coup attempt is totally damning. If this were Watergate, and there were any ethics left in the R's, this material would be enough to convict. But in a time when the same people don't believe there is a deadly pandemic raging around the world and in their own states, expecting rational responses to a coup attempt in the US is not real. Boggles the mind.
I agree, Carole. It does indeed boggle the mind and sets us on a course to fiddle while Rome burns. With dark money and Gerrymandering the far right branch of the Republican party has set the stage for minority rule that may last for the rest of my lifetime if successful. I think it's time for us to hit the streets. 2017 Women's March style.
So true. How their hypocrisy carried them over that burden was also baffling. McConnell has amazing power over the lemmings as does the orange man. If we weren't living it, it would be interesting social psychology. But it's not.
Silly man, of course I know that. Do you think I’m a dummy? I’m rolling with it Baby! When somebody calls kim “Yoda” you gotta run with it. You don’t take the time to explain a running joke, you take the baton and run with it for a while and then hand it off to the next person. Maybe you swap the baton out for another one that you had in your pocket, and see if anybody notices. It’s like the game “telephone.“ It changes as it moves.
I was using the opportunity to praise kim, since you handed me that opportunity on a silver platter. kim is obviously a magnificent person, that has been evident for quite some time, and I’m not sure I’ve ever given her a compliment, so this was a golden opportunity.
Like I have said before regarding other “Heather Letters”, the drums are rolling in the background but their tone is getting a little louder now. Methodically, the Select Committee is issuing subpoenas to TFG’s and Pence’s staff members. What did they know and when did they know that a coup was planned and who initiated it? I say grab their many passports (think Jeffrey Epstein) so they cannot leave the country via Putin-provided aircraft or submarine. Let’s see if Christopher Wray will do his job. Let’s also see if those pleading the fifth, will be held in contempt and treated to a pair of handcuffs.
How about asking Elon Musk - or good ol' Jeff Bezos - if they have a oneway spaceship that could accommodate a Greyhound Bus number of folks to, let's say, Uranus.
A coup is an act of war against the country. Treason, the only crime defined in the Constitution, has as an element, "making war on the United States." Someone should be making a list with every name in this article on it, and tomorrow morning at 0600, the FBI should arrest all of them - starting with Trump in Mar A Lardo, and then after a night in the DC drunk tank, they should be arraigned Monday morning, charged with Conspiracy To Commit Treason. And Senator Graham and all the rest of the traitors in Congress should be there with them.
20 years in the Florence SuperMax for each.
There is -- I believe -- no federal prohibition against capital punishment, and as I recall, the proper sentence for treason is hanging. For reasons of both practical and symbolic, I think hanging should be the punishment for the crime.
I would settle for (effective) life in prison.
Dear Mr. Nemeth,
I am in deep gratitude to you for your music. I spent several years in Mendocino county teaching the college of the Redwoods nursing program. That you hail from Arcata is quite special for me. The hospital there is amazing. Your music is transcendental and gives me great,deep joy. Thank you and blessings upon you
I am a recently retired ICU nurse...I truly respect what you do.
I'm retired, now, stone-carving and gardening. Welcome to respite from the ICU. Much appreciation for the work YOU did.
Gardening: the earth, the stones, the worms, the roots...the knees. Mark, my late husband, said that I missed weeding in the winter. And the trees, the bushes and the flowers.
Wow, I lived in Arcata about 40 years ago. Brings back memories. Thanks.
Kim, thank you for enlightening me to Mr Nemeth’s music!
I just listened to one of your compositions on SoundCloud. (The one with the tune “what do you do with a drunken sailor” woven through.
It’s completely elevating
Thank you!!!!
Hi Mitzi, can you please provide a link for that?
I can
https://soundcloud.com/joseph-nemeth-788868404
enjoy!
Ah, thank you Kim!
Over the top - out of this world - in orbit!!
My granddaughter was born in the Mad River Hospital in Arcata. The staff there was wonderful. My daughter lived in Arcata for about 15 years. Two years ago she moved just north of Trinidad, literally across the street from Sue-Meg State Park (formerly Patricks Point State Park). It is magnificently beautiful there, a magical place for my granddaughter to grow up. My daughter is politically very progressive, as are many of the folks who populate the area. I only hope that our country doesn't turn brutally suppressive, as I fear it will if fuhrer Trump returns to power. His heavily armed sturmabteilung are ready to do his bidding. I have never been this worried about the state of our country.
Whack a Mole is not the answer to sedition. The death penalty is barbaric and imprisonment of all who were involved is impractical. Perhaps we might settle on voting Republicans out of office - that is something we can all take part in.
The argument is Both/And, not Either/Or. As HCR writes about the critical history-changing error of not holding Confederate leaders accountable and taking them back into the governmental fold, it's a dangerous precedent that gives a message of permission for politicians down the road to test the boundaries, as have the trumper insurrectionists. Vote them out AND fully prosecute them.
Just for the record, yes justice pursued in the legislature and the courts *and* voting out Republican miscreants.
I agree, but no death penalty. More fitting for these people would be community service each day then back to their cells.
I think solitary confinement is more appropriate here. No communication with the outside world.
No internet access or social media either
stew in their own lethal juices, deadly
Thank you Ellie. Very nicely stated.
Sorry, but this speculation surely has nothing to do with the law, which is supposed to apply equally to all.
If this line of inaction were followed, it would be tantamount to upholding the "anything goes" approach of the
GOP cabal, a cabal that befouls the name "Republican" and continues to threaten the very existence of the American Republic.
Every minute that the conspirators go free, every minute that they fail to face the full rigor of the law, adds to the danger that they constitute, not only for the Republic but for the world.
That is why they will do their damnedest to stretch the minutes out until they have succeeded in cheating their way to seizing and securing power.
These people pose an existential threat. Their continued freedom endangers all, including themselves...
The small fish, like the qanon shaman, should not be the only ones punished. The planners and inviters should be held accountable. How is looking for ways to overturn an election with a declared winner not a crime? Far and away too much of our government rests on the good character of those in office . Good character is a flimsy foundation for a country. Tfg showed a lot of flaws in our system.
What "line of inaction" are you referring to?
I am calling for strategic action and effective tactics. I spend a lot of time listening to CSpan broadcasts of congressional hearings and of federal court oral arguments. Administering justice fairly and well is slow going. By design.
So yes, pursue justice through the legislature and through the courts. Absolutely. But do not pretend that it will be easy or that your desired outcome is assured. Any time soon, if at all. Some comments here smack a bit of 'let someone else - congress, the courts -take care of it."
As hard as it seems, voting Republicans out of office is a more immediate solution to mitigating the existential threat of them running government.
And yes, Trump at Mar a Lago and even on the stump is less dangerous than Trump in the White House and making policy.
If you are right, the January 6th uprising has already succeeded and the republic, having no dequate defense against treason, is failing itself and failing humanity.
Seriously? Yes Republicans have been hollowing out the institutions of government since Reagan. But their Jan 6 insurrection failed. The Electoral College results were certified and the Biden Harris administration was inaugurated.
With Democratic majorities - stronger and better lead in the House - progress is being made. Justice is being pursued.
Hyperbolic defeatism is the last thing we need. It is another form of voter suppression.
Adequate.
WHAT IS OUR DUTY AS HUMAN BEINGS?
Here, I must fall silent and take my leave of you.
I apologize for any excessive harshness, but the reality we face is brutal.
Godspeed.
We still don’t know what exactly went on in the Pentagon in those weeks and days, and there’s no “ voting them out”. Charges need to be brought to these traitors.
Except…the January 6 Committee.
That gang is starting to get dangerous.
Very hard charging group.
Last sentence true, but the goal is…
Channelling policy that had been "suggested" to him. But no, he was exonerated, he's said so loudly and frequently. It was all a witchunt.
Hopefully I'll live long enough to see this change
Hahahaha, vote them out you say? Have you been paying attention to all the “voter integrity” laws that will make that statement a joke? Also, much of the country has tuned out, dropped out and are psyched out…. Legal consequences are desperately needed or we all can just bow down
Yes legal consequences are essential. But very slow to achieve. By design.
Yes, GOP voter suppression will make 2022 measurably more difficult than 2020.
Defeatism is a form of voter suppression.
I am not defeated. But I am surrounded by cult MAGAts who buy Rupert’s bull Schitt propaganda with nary a thought to reality, and a Governor who will deliver TX to chump, no matter my vote. If he is not in jail that is…
The thing is this: You got to have fun while you're fightin' for freedom, 'cause you don't always win. - Molly Ivins, Texan of Blessed Memory
One can only hope.
He must be a republican.
Lin, do you not think imprisonment is a proper consequence?
We have imprisoned such a large percentage of the Black and Latin population...it is not at all impractical to imprison the seditionists. I say release the people imprisoned for marijuana charges, for racist charges, and there will be more than enough room for the seditionists and insurrectionists.
I want to see justice done. Especially regarding Trump and his henchman, in and out of government.
Elections are quicker than trials for removing miscreants from power.
For many insurrectionists and enablers, restorative justice would be more to the point than imprisonment.
Judicial reform and racial justice is part of building back better. And worth a more considered discussion.
But overall, I would think we want fewer people imprisoned. Fewer prisons and more restorative justice - bringing outlaws into dialogue, as a strategy for reeducating them and the goal of reintegrating them.
I respectfully disagree. Trump WAS removed from office, yet can it be argued that he now poses just as great a threat to the country as he ever has, if not even more? The only way to effectively deal with that threat is to see that mendacious creep behind bars. Forever.
Talking about punishments made me fantasize that TFG would save us lots of trouble and flee to Russia, or even to a tiny island his backers would have to buy for him, in case Putin wouldn’t take him in. The rest of the miscreants would be prosecuted, voted out, disbarred, bankrupted, thoroughly shamed.
You have succeeded in turning the conversation to inconsequential waffling about high principles, away from the immediate danger that we all face.
Meanwhile, the criminals are digging themselves in, incrusting themselves in the system.
Every distraction from essentials, every distraction from public safety, empowers the cabal.
Can we please stop, cut out irrelevant abstractions (including party politics) fall silent and take stock of the immeasurable danger that is still bearing down on us?
Anything else amounts to working for the adversaire.
Thank you Peter for your clear assessment. Our nation is in grave danger and those responsible must be brought to justice, which includes removing them from office.
Agreed. We need to form a coalition to save our Constitutional Republic with anyone who will help. That needs to be our single purpose. We are at the point of triaging our republic, not treating the worried well.
Sorry, idiot French spellcheck. ADVERSARY.
I agree, Peter. So often I speak with fellow liberals about what is coming and am met with high minded phrases about what should be happening.
That's what I have been saying for months. Everything (except perhaps voting rights legislation) should be put on the back burner while all energies and resources are directed at maintaining Democratic congressional majorities in 2022, ten and a half months from now. The clock is ticking.
The cornerstone of restorative justice is education, to which the recipient must be open to listening and reflection of how to change for the better in order for justice to be served. I don't see the trump-Republican pursuers of power and profit at all costs as amenable to such education.
There are some people who belong in prison. Period. There are some who just never had a chance in this world and do benefit from being given one—education, skills, meaningful work. Why spend the equivalent of college tuition annually on prisoners for the rest of their lives when a few years of college would turn them around so to speak? But, some people had every advantage and chose the dark path. They will not be rehabilitated I believe. And that includes all these white collar mobsters that surround Trump.
Exactly this.
Never thought I could say this but members of the GQP may not have the ability to listen to others. I wouldn't want to facilitate Restorative Justice Sessions for them. I might rip my own hair out
https://johnpavlovitz.com/2021/12/11/why-ive-lost-respect-for-my-republican-friends/
I often quibble with Mr. Pavlovitz, but his heart is largely in the right place. It seems he's come to a stark realization as well.
Restorative Justice is designed to "Repair the harm caused by crime. When victims, offenders, and community members meet to decide how to do that, the results can be transformational." Also: "It emphasizes accountability, making amends, and — if they are interested — facilitated meetings between victims, offenders, and other persons." In my limited experience with Restorative Justice, it works when the offenses are relatively (and keep in mind my relatively is tempered by 35 years in the criminal justice system) minor, and the root motivations for the crime can be traced to some socioeconomic disadvantage, drug use, or (later in the process) racially/ethnically based prosecutions vs. alternative resolutions. It does not work for people who intentionally inflict violence on others (with the caveat that the disproportionate punishment and sentencing as recently demonstrated in Missouri with Kevin Strickland's case is something else entirely to be addressed).
This isn't stealing stuff, damaging property, or engaging in drug driven behavior, nor is it criminalized conduct defined by racial or socioeconomic events. THIS IS AN ATTEMPT TO OVERTHROW THE GOVERNMENT that was done willfully, intentionally, and knowingly by elected officials of that very same government in order to preserve their power.
Thank you for this explanation Ally. This is consistent with what I thought I knew about restorative justice but considering it for a psychopathic cult leader made me blink. Appreciate you taking the time to share your knowledge! 🙏
Thank You for your work and your well informed insight. Yes those who can be charged with and convicted of crimes should be. Especially at the higher levels.
But for many jail may well reinforce their extremism and further their radicalization. Or just let them cool their heels in white collar summer camp.
There are many who will get a judicial slap on the wrist for their participation which they may well wear as a badge of honor.
None of which will help them become better citizens.
Thank you.
Helpful link: http://restorativejustice.org/#sthash.oOIfuNfc.dpbs
Thank you, Ally. This matches my observation.
Lin, I'm not an expert on restorative justice, but my wife got into it for a time, and I read Rosenberg and participated in one RJ session. The deep flaw in this is that it requires community, a sense of community, and a valuing of that community, or at least the benefits it provides.
It doesn't work well (or at all) with psychopaths and narcissists. It doesn't work well on the "successful" within a capitalist system, because they can -- essentially -- buy their way out of community.
Were I a judge in this case, it would be incumbent upon me to carefully balance the scales of justice. I am not a judge. I am a citizen, and my tailfeathers are still on fire over this brutal rape of democracy. I'm going to stand by a swift and permanent justice.
"It doesn't work well (or at all) with psychopaths and narcissists. It doesn't work well on the "successful" within a capitalist system, because they can essentially buy their way out of community. . . I'm going to stand by a swift and permanent justice."
Restorative justice can help build community. Jail does not seem to work particularly well to protect us from recidivism by the super wealthy and other sociopaths.
As for what you term "swift and permanent justice" and by which I think you mean the death penalty - imposing it is neither swift nor permanent justice. It is endlessly appealed and adjudicated. And -in a system rife with race and class prejudice - slow has served justice by saving many, who were unjustly charged and convicted of hanging crimes, from state sponsored murder.
“Elections are quicker than trials for removing miscreants from power.”
You have a point…and not being in power would be “prison” for them!
As a proponent of Restorative Justice never thought I could say that some people simply don't have the ability to "hear" others. I'm sure that I'm wrong but I wouldn't want to facilitate the Restorative Justice process for GQP members. I don't think I could handle it. But certainly it has great possibilities and potential.
I agree, d017. Restorative Justice requires all to listen and learn. Listening is not in the wheel house of many of these people who wish to MAGA.
Unfortunately many have been brainwashed by Fox, Limbaugh, Alex Jones, QANON, etc
There is training for mediation.
Amen, my friend
Crimes need punishment. Otherwise there is no rule of law.
Trump, who committed treason, needs to be arrested and placed in jail with other lawbreakers.
IF the US does not do this, then, it will be clear that anyone of large girth with lots of money can do anything they want, as long as they are white.
Now you are talking!
Lin, criminals should pay their debt to society. I'm in agreement with kim WA - release the Black and Latino population that are doing jail time for marijuana and give the Benedict Arnolds long, long prison time.
Right. By waving a magic wand. Presto Chango. One prison population exchanged for another. Mission Accomplished.
Can we be serious for a moment?
The issue is about being a nation of laws. Of actually *administering* justice. Of doing the hard work fairly and well.
Our work is not to indulge in revenge fantasies. No matter how prettied up by appropriating serious issues of judicial reform for frivolous purposes.
Our work is to care enough to become a united electorate to put Democrats in office. Thanks to Rep. James Clyburn's brilliant and effective primary intervention, we got the job done in 2020. Now we get to do it all over again.
The Right doesn't need tiki torch parades to unite. After Perot, no Pied Piper pipe dreams for them. Republican VOTERS have kept their eyes on the prize of the Supreme Court and all of local, state, federal government, all along.
And it's paid off - for them.
At least some people took the lesson of the civil rights movement seriously - even if only to entirely undo it.
Can we match that? We see what happens when we don't
Lin, I agree with many of your points, but, revenge fantasy??
Is it really revenge to want those in power who broke our trust, violated their oaths and are actively trying to dismantle our institutions to be convicted? Justice has favored the powerful while punishing the poor for far too long. Is it wrong to hope for better?
And, yes, we work our butts off to get out the vote too.
Absolutely. Brought to justice - in the legislature and the courts is surely a goal.
But many here seem all in for hanging people for treason or locking them up for life - in some odd prisoner exchange to release unjustly convicted persons to make room for masses of Jan 6 conspirators. Like right now. They are writing of rough justice. When even assembling and reviewing the evidence is a massive undertaking.
The problem is the GOP keeps distracting us for doing meaningful work. We need serious reform in the whole justice system. Look at these men who are wrongfully convicted and sentenced to years in prison for a crime they didn't commit due to bad lawyers and judges. But the GOP keeps throwing out metaphorical grenades that cloud the air and cause mayhem. We do need to throw our own grenades somehow and cause mayhem for them.
More grenades and distraction are not what we need to bring to the fight. We need to deflect GOP schemes with more focus, diligence, and most of all more voters to elect more Democrats. Nancy Pelosi et al are doing their part to multitask, we need to do ours.
*"from" doing meaningful work...
Mitch McConnell set up the prize of the Supreme Court.
Amen
Besides, the Democratic party is in such disarray right now, I'm very doubtful it could make a strong enough showing at the polls.
The Democratic party is not some abstract entity. We all who are opposed to Trumpism must unite and make a strong showing.
What makes you think the Democrats are in disarray? News headlines always say that, but that’s their game. It never made sense.
Exactly! Look at the bills passed under Pelosi's leadership in the House!
Exactly
We are the Democratic Party and are not in disarray, as much as the media would like you to believe. We are a big tent party with lots of different opinions. If your local party is in disarray then work from inside to fix it, or join forces with Swing Left or Indivisible. Please don’t allow the media to convince you the Democrats are losers or it will be a self fulfilling prophecy
Hear, hear!
Thanks to the two Trojan horses
I think that if given the specific charge of defeating the GOP/Trumpism, they would rise together. The latest wrangling is lawmaking, and that is messy business regardless.
That would be ok if Justice worked that way - but it doesn't...... Look at old wily Steve Bannon-he has a court date of July 18th..... And the rest of the traitors are taking the 5th......
While poor and working class rot in prisons waiting to get a hearing
Note that "taking the fifth" is only a get-out-of-jail card IF the person is the only witness to the crime. They can still be prosecuted on the basis of evidence submitted by others.
Well that’s something. I guess
Amen!
These are criminal acts. These acts have nothing to do with Democrats or Republicans and cannot and should NOT be resolved by voting but by the Department of Justice.
You do know that the Attorney General of the Department of Justice is a political appointee of the duly elected President of the United States? And, of course "these acts" of insurrection have everything to do with the entire apparatus of the Republican party trying to install a Republican who lost the election and disqualify the Democrat who won the election?
No death penalty. But I would like to see TFG receive several 100 year sentences w/o possibility of parole. The cell would offer a long wall shelved with books that have no pictures. He would have no access to any media device. He would need to recite a paragraph from one of the books before his plate of broccoli is offered to him.
I would just like to see the evidence collected and the case made to convict Trump of the crimes he may be justly accused of. And if convicted that he receive the maximum sentence.
Love you lin ❤️❤️
I like the way you think!
😂😂😂
Nice!!
Yes, feed him veggies, but flavorful is OK. This guy badly needs to improve his health and clear his body and mind.
Nice, but I don't see that happening. Their hold on power is too strong and the midterm elections loom.
Nothing ventured, nothing gained. We have agency. Defeatism is another form of voter suppression.
You have some reading to do—starting with Dark Money by Jane Mayer and The Shock Doctrine by Naomi Klein. The “Citizens United” decision would first have to be repealed and that won’t happen with a Repug Packed court. The death penalty for treason is the only good answer to address the evil behind fascism—and if you doubt evil exists, what circle in hell describes someone who abuses the power of leadership to further enormous suffering while reaping benefits of office?
Be gentle and kind to each other, good people. We are a wonderful group of friends and allies. I happen to like everybody on this thread. 😘
You are a gentleman, Roland.
I think your your notion that "The death penalty for treason is the only good answer to address the evil behind fascism" may be ill considered. And that we are less concerned here with evil, which the law does not concern itself with, than with criminality - for which the death penalty is an unthinking and ineffective response.
If you do want to consider evil and fascism then I am sorry you missed my references to Hannah Arendt's The Banality of Evil:
For when I speak of the banality of evil, I do so only on the strictly factual level, pointing to a phenomenon which stared one in the face at the trial. Eichmann was not Iago and not Macbeth, and nothing would have been farther from his mind than to determine with Richard III 'to prove a villain.' Except for an extraordinary diligence in looking out for his personal advancement, he had no motives at all… He merely, to put the matter colloquially, never realized what he was doing… It was sheer thoughtlessness—something by no means identical with stupidity—that predisposed him to become one of the greatest criminals of that period. And if this is 'banal' and even funny, if with the best will in the world one cannot extract any diabolical or demonic profundity from Eichmann, this is still far from calling it commonplace… That such remoteness from reality and such thoughtlessness can wreak more havoc than all the evil instincts taken together which, perhaps, are inherent in man—that was, in fact, the lesson one could learn in Jerusalem.
I’d be willing to bet lin has read those and volumes upon volumes of others judging by what I’ve been reading
Love you Dawna ❤️❤️
lin - please explain how voting (all) Republicans out of office can be accomplished given the legislation in 33 states that enables Republican election officials to reject citizens' votes if they don't like the election results (i.e. Democrats elected over Republicans). If I understand correctly, that can only occur if the Senate passes the For the People Act and the John Lewis Act. But, of course, as pointed out above, even those Congressional acts would likely be stalled by Republican party litigation.
Yes, for all the reasons you say, and then some, voting *all* Republicans out of office is not possible. But we must try to make as good a showing as possible. And document the proof of how these voter suppression laws obstruct voting.
I went out to Cleveland Ohio to volunteer for Kerry leading up to election day. On election day I was part of a mobile team looking in on polling places. It was the first time I saw first hand the inequitable distribution of voting machines. In rich white Republican neighborhoods there were machines lining the hallways, not even set up. In poor, diverse, Democratic leaning neighborhoods there were so few voting machines that people were lined up around the block for hours in on a cold rainy day. We brought them ponchos and hot drinks - which of course has been outlawed now.
Electing as many Democrats (and Democratic committed Independents such as Maine's Angus King) as possible is the goal.
Turnout by Democrats and Independents to vote remains crucial, especially in the states working to obstruct voters' intentions if Republican legislators or election officials don't want who voters have actually voted for.
Yes, Yes. May I please like your comment as many times as the number of voters we need?
If the people call for prison, he'll go free. If the people call for hanging, he might get exile, or at least exile-from-politics.
Prison is not impractical. Ask any Republican legislator. They left putting people in prison. Fortunately we have lots of them!
Ah, a fellow musician - and activist! 🎵
Hang together, or, separately, eh?
In a FEDERAL prison - where there is no parole.
I prefer the guillotine. Watch the heads roll. LOL.
Yeah…Give the traitors the Mussolini treatment. Or just roll a guillotine up to the Capitol steps.
I agree 100%, TC. Conspiracy to commit treason. Why should these serpents still be out on the street, or in their cushy Georgetown living rooms, comparing notes, getting their stories straight and continuing with the next phase of their plan to take power and never relinquish it? Do Democrats not understand that we will lose the right to express our political opinions under threat of internment if this creeping coup is not stopped dead in its tracks now? The USA will become Russia. We'll be back in the darkest of ages.
WE will be under Republican racist religious extremist kleptocrat rule unless WE unite to elect Democratic candidates at every level of government. WE need to vote strategically to maintain the Democratic majority. If there is to be any chance of seeing justice done. It is in OUR hands.
I agree, we all need to vote for Democrats. But we can also insist that our government institutions do their jobs in a timely fashion, specifically the DOJ needs to accelerate efforts to get dangerous criminals off the street: investigate, interrogate, arrest, preventive detention as necessary, trial, appropriate terms of imprisonment. You can be sure that Trump and his butt-kissers will have their day in court, and SCOTUS will have its say in the matter too. Failure to arrest these creeps now will lead to their success in the next -- largely gerrymandered -- elections. And that will be that. Remember how many Americans do not vote.
How could a state that has been gerrymandered to the nth degree elect Democrats? Ex: Wisconsin -Democrats won 53% of the votes, but 36% of the congressional seats. I live in NC where our electorate is purple. Our congressional delegation has 10 R’s and 3 D’s, by design. The author of that plan said he couldn’t figure out how to make the delegation only 2 D’s. My rep is a member of the sedition caucus.
I feel the same. And I found a pattern. TFG accuses the other side of what he is in fact guilty of, “rigging elections”. Gerrymandering is gaming the system. Now it’s possible the system is going to break.
Republicans have ALWAYS been guilty of projection.
It’s time for a Constitutional amendment to explicitly end Gerrymandering. Oh wait, isn’t that the 14th?
Are you referring to section 2 of the 14th amendment? It’s been my experience that people tend to be dense. I think maybe there should be a law that expressly forbids gerrymandering. Partisan politicians drawing voting district boundaries are situations rife with abuse. A nonpartisan group should set district boundaries. Politicians don’t have enough integrity to draw voting boundaries.
Wisconsin has elected Democratic Gov. Tony Evers and Democratic Sen. Tammy Baldwin. Before the pandemic I spent time in Racine campaigning for them.
Yes they also have GOP Sen Ron Johnson. Here in Maine we also have Democratic Gov. Janet Mills and independent Sen. Angus King, but also the more wily but just as craven Republican Sen. Susan Collins.
Yes gerrymandered House seats are something else.
Agreed !
Also, action is needed now before we “vote strategically”
Whatever is in your comfort zone, please support candidates/ incumbents fighting the good fight.
Here’s a great place to start looking for candidates to support.
http://lenspoliticalnotes.com/
I am posting this early this morning (12/13) using your words. I hope that's okay. Thanks. Search for me. Maybe we can get some interest.
Thanks for posting this. I have posted about Len's Political Notes couple of times in LFAA recently and got no traction. "Action is needed.." That is the key. I'll probably post it again in the morning, when there are fewer comments and see if it gets any looks.
🙏❤️💯 Thank you lin!
I have been calling it treason from Jan 6, how can one not? We saw it with our own eyes.
TC you've laid out a good plan. And when putting them in the car, don't worry about them bumping their heads if you get my drift.
Yeah, let’s ruin that multi thousand dollar orange toupee job
Won't happen. But keep dreaming. Guantanamo, even without cells, would suffice.
I hear you! And, let it be announced from sea to shining sea every name and every crime they committed in headlines, TV and radio news, and internet information sites. Not one journalist, commentator, or any other news announcer gets to deviate from this truth.
From Goebbels. “It is vitally important for the state… to repress dissent, for the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus, the greatest enemy of the state.” In our case, chump would be the state, his plan anyway.
Amen.
This Independent wonders I wonder why lots of January 6 small fry were arrested and federally prosecuted, but not the people who planned the coup and incited the small fry to make the coup work?
Why the Capitol police did not use deadly force to defend the Capitol and Congress members on January 6?
Why the U.S. Military did not come to the aid of the Capitol police?
Why Donald Trump, Mark Meadows, et. al. are not in federal custody being prosecuted for Treason?
I bet God wonders that, too.
I also wonder why Mike Pence and Mitch McConnel are not calling for federal prosecution of Donald Trump, Mark Meadows, et. al. for treason?
February 13, 2021:
WASHINGTON (AP) — In his speech Saturday from the Senate floor, Sen. Mitch McConnell delivered a scalding denunciation of Donald Trump, calling him “morally responsible” for the Jan. 6 attack on the U.S. Capitol.
But in his vote on Trump’s impeachment, McConnell said “not guilty” because he said a former president could not face trial in the Senate.
Washington’s most powerful Republican and the Senate’s minority leader used his strongest language to date to excoriate Trump minutes after the Senate acquitted the former president, voting 57-43 to convict him but falling short of the two-thirds majority needed to find him guilty. Seven Republicans voted to convict.
Clearly angry, the Senate’s longest-serving GOP leader said Trump’s actions surrounding the attack on Congress were “a disgraceful, disgraceful dereliction of duty.” He even noted that though Trump is now out of office, he remains subject to the country’s criminal and civil laws.
“He didn’t get away with anything yet,” said McConnell, who turns 79 next Saturday and has led the Senate GOP since 2007.
Article III, Section III of the US Constitution:
Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort. No person shall be convicted of Treason unless on the Testimony of two Witnesses to the same overt Act, or on Confession in open Court.
The Congress shall have Power to declare the Punishment of Treason, but no Attainder of Treason shall work Corruption of Blood, or Forfeiture except during the Life of the Person attainted.
PUNISHMENT FOR TREASON AS DECIDED BY CONGRESS:
§2381. Treason
Whoever, owing allegiance to the United States, levies war against them or adheres to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort within the United States or elsewhere, is guilty of treason and shall suffer death, or shall be imprisoned not less than five years and fined under this title but not less than $10,000; and shall be incapable of holding any office under the United States.
They (FBI, 1/6 Commission) are working up the chain to the bigger fish. Notice that TFG never gives an order but "suggests" it would be nice if thus and thus happened. WOW mob boss 101. Do not be held accountable for anything. Before he was elected, we all knew he was a bully and he proved it over and over.
In the long term, you’re right. The bosses need to be punished just like their henchmen. The reason I added “in the long term” is that it’s much easier to investigate and convict the guy who pulled the trigger than the boss. The boss wasn’t there. The connections between the boss and the event are harder to prove. We need persistence and patience.
A good friend ongoing reports dreams in which he is show and told stuff by angels. He called this morning to report being told in a dream last night that a demon will get Trump off. He also told me that it's all over today's news, that the congressional committee released that Meadows had spread around that the National Guard would protect any Trump supporters on January 6. My friend sent this link:
https://www.cnn.com/2021/12/12/politics/mark-meadows-january-committee-contempt-of-congress-resolution/index.html
In fact, Trump is possessed by a demon, and his enablers likewise, and that possession is contagious and has infiltrated MAGAdom and most of Republicandom, and eerily tracks the same happening with Hitler and his top aides and the German masses in the 1930s.
So, I do truly hope President Biden's AG and Department of Justice do not tarry.
My friend reported a few days ago, that he was told in a dream that Kamala Harris fell out of favor with President Biden, after she attempted a coup of her own, by trying to make something of him not taking a mental acuity test of some kind. I knew something had happened, and my friend and I had discussed wondering what it was, and then he had that dream.
Lordy, I know the cult is “possessed” but had no idea…. However I do know that repub strategy of late “eerily tracks the same happening with Hitler and his top aides and the German masses in the 30’s.”
Yes, it tracks that time in Germany, and there seems to be no getting that acknowledged by Trumpdom and most Republicans.
Nor by the MSM, who keep blathering about republicans like they are reluctant participants in a normal government. If they don’t acknowledge that they are the destroyers of our government, I hate to think of the consequences.
'I wonder why the Capitol police did not use deadly force to defend the Capitol and Congress members on January 6?'
Can we all say Blood Bath? Can we all say Unintended Consequences? Can we all say Collateral Damage?
Have very good friend, Republican, U.S. Army Special Forces combat veteran, who told me the people who assaulted the Capitol on January 6 all should have been shot dead. In fact, the law would clearly allow the Capitol police to use deadly force to protect both the Capitol and the Congress members inside, just as the law allows a homeowner or business owner to use deadly force to repel a burglar, robber, etc. I learned that in criminal law 101 in law school. Yet my friend, who voted twice for Trump, did not say Trump should have been shot dead, too.
At the very least, a blood bath was impractical. And would have significantly delayed confirmation of the Electoral College vote. In fact it might have created the conditions under which Trump could have declared martial law.
Oh right, assassinating Trump is part of this picture. So no problem.
OK that is the limit of my ability to respond reasonably to the suggestion that to 'open fire' in the crowded cramped space of the Capitol on Jan 6 - makes any fr!&&€n sense at all. This is my head exploding.
Knowing our dear Hitler Wannabe as we do, they will build a plush jail cell at MAGA Lago just for him. Regular beautician visits by whoever produces those orange Dayglo toupees and fake tans.
Here in Palm Beach County where Mar-a-Lago is located, we are experiencing an invasion of iguanas. It should be noted that during their mating season, the spikes on the backs of the males of this otherwise green and gray species turn to a bright orange, just the color of the former president's hair or hair piece. Just a humorous aside regarding the Iguana-in-Chief on an otherwise pessimistic day.
Iguana-in-Chief. Nice!!
Agree.
While reading Heather's article, I had a reaction in my gut--the list of people and their lawyers should be taken for questioning to "gitmo". After reading your comment, I agree that something of consequence should happen to these people. SOON
I believe the penalty for treason is a firing squad at dawn! Still too good for them.
Everybody seems to be enjoying your fantasy, but that is just not how things work.
It does if you're a professional author of dramatic fiction. :-)
What a refreshing fantasy! what if?
I honestly don't know what would be justice here. But if we lock them all up it would cement the break between ideologies. I would want, in any case, the impossibility of any of them to run again for office -- maybe a settlement. And for TFG to lose his businesses and his big pension for life, as well as all the other office holders. This doesn't bring justice to all the lawyers, corporate enablers, team player staff, and assorted flunkies like bannon. How does that work? What happens to them? It looks like the Committee is going to drop a mother-of-all-bombs on the country! We can't just vote the politicians out and let the others walk. I don't think we CAN vote them all out with the present mess they've made of elections.
We need an overhaul of the entire government and especially the judiciary. The buggers are using the judicial system to remove rights and destroy rest of the government. What kind of violence would ensue?
We are way, WAY past just voting them out to fix what is already broken....
A good start would be stopping the purveyors of disinformation. A modern “Fairness Doctrine” would be step one. The lies are destroying democracies around the world.
Do something about Facebook. Maria Resa pointed out the danger that Facebook under Zuckerberg poses. Facebook employees pointed out its dangers as well. Why should Zuckerberg add to his wealth at the country’s expense?
It’s the elephant that people blather about and do nothing….
Since this is the gang that doesn’t believe that women have a right to their own body, why shouldn’t a vasectomy be part of the sentence for all these scurrilous culprits?
You seem to be clipping along this day. We'd be able to recognize them as they raise their acquired Contra-Soprano voices in harmony. Or, did I confuse a snip with the big clip on this lovely Winters morn? 🤫
Keith - now you are cutting to the chase (pun intended)
But Senator Hawley says they all need to go forth and procreate !!
And Cawthorn stipulates that they all be “monsters” which is a clue as to why they all promote unwanted and marginally cared for children
Go Gus, the damage is to our core. Dems have the evidence, go with it.
It feels as if we've hit bottom. I have to hope we don't fall further. I have to believe in Hope.
Hear! Hear!
Sounds good to me. Maybe a cell in the basement next to Hannibal Lecter.
All we know from this posting is that a team of Trump associates were looking for legal, constitutional ways to undo the election. As far as I know, there is no evidence YET that they were planning to break the law. It is not a crime to look for legal loopholes. You don’t go to lawyers to plan a violent revolution. We still need more hard evidence before we can indict. I am not a lawyer.
Stanley, I don't think they were looking for a violent revolution. They were (and still are) trying to exploit -- and invent -- weaknesses in our Constitution so as to take power illegitimately and undemocratically, but without having to fire a shot, hoping that most Americans are too distracted by the details of their lives to mount any serious or concerted opposition.
They are betting we have become fat and lazy and as self-centered and greedy and ethics-less as they are. Projection and cynicism on steroids. To be honest, there is genius in it. But there also seems to be abundant evidence that they have attempted (and conspired) to do something that is clearly unconstitutional and are now doubling down on that, and the fact that they now own the SCOTUS greases the skids.
Is any of this illegal? I, too, am not a lawyer, but all this strikes me as even worse than mere illegality as it threatens to replace our democracy (defective as it may be) with authoritarianism aspiring soon enough to become totalitarianism. And even though COVID is disproportionately killing many of their most fervid supporters, they could not have chosen a better way to distract us from what they are up to as they ride a wave of their own useful idiocy.
I realize my take on this is not an easy sell.
Hitler decided against violent overthrow after a little jail time and then decided to work within the system. Wasn’t long before he had the power to legitimize every evil act that came to his putrid mind. All you doubters refresh your Hitler history. They follow it to the nth degree.
Seriously? Republicans were not looking for a violent revolution? The same Republicans who: introduced "lock and load" as a campaign slogan; who've played footsie with the type of armed militias which created Timothy McVeigh, the Bundys, and most recently Kyle Rittenhouse. Those Republicans wanted to stick to procedural take down of democracy and draw the line at sacking the Capitol? The Republicans like Glock Girl Lauren Boebert strutting her strap on at the Capitol? The Republicans who for decades have said you need assault weapons to revolt against government tyranny?
I could go on ... connect the dots, please.
Lin, my comment is about what I believe Trump and the GOP are trying to do. I do not believe their preferred way of getting perpetual power is to engage in "violent revolution". That would involve too much hard work and personal danger. If they started rolling truck bombs into peaceful crowds and assassinating Democratic leaders, I would, no doubt, change my mind. But, I think they will be satisfied with winning/stealing back the House and Senate in 2022, ruining the Biden presidency and then solidifying the racist, xenophobic, misogynistic, planet-hating, corrupt and otherwise moronic status quo so many Americans seem to like and are even proud of.
Of course, in a country such as ours where ordinary citizens can easily arm themselves to the teeth with (nearly) military quality weapons, it is hard to imagine that the GOP's creeping coup will be violence free, and the mere threat of violence is already freaking out peace-loving Democrats as expected. Sure, we are right to be freaked out, but McVeigh got what he deserved, Bundy was a loner nut-case, poor Kyle Rittenhouse is just a poorly raised child in late adolescence, and Lauren Boebert is a carnival act intended to irritate the libs.
I think Merrick Garland needs to connect some different dots and begin arresting folks and call their bluff. I expect many of them will end up whimpering and begging for mercy.
On the other hand, if the SCOTUS is truly bought and paid for already, then we are faced with a done deal, and getting out the vote will not change anything. Yes, pretty depressing.
You have, I think, a very high bar for "engaging in violent revolution" and a very blinkered view of the facts.
Republican officials are not content with procedural violence just as their plutocrat paymasters are not content with deregulation. Both want to be entirely unburdened of the burden of constitutional law - to their racist prejudices and violent proclivities as well as their rapacious profit taking.
Poor misguided baby Kyle Rittenhouse? Sheesh.
Well, Lin, "violent revolution" usually ends up involving standing armies -- or at least bands of guerillas -- slaughtering each other and even larger numbers of non-combatants. Kyle Rittenhouse is a punk and should never have been allowed to have a gun, but he is hardly a danger to the Republic. And we do not yet know to what depths Republicans and their plutocrat paymasters will sink, though we may find out fairly soon, likely before the 2022 elections.
Of course you and I probably agree about most everything, so why should we bicker about the details? I certainly hope that getting out a big DEM vote in 2022 will send the crazies packing. All will be revealed.
David, Was the mob attack on The Capitol a non-violent demonstration, which the former president did not seek the quell because it was simply a peaceable assembly? Is it possible that he didn't join them on their march to the capital as he had promised because his feet were tired, maybe it was due to a recurring bone spur issue.
Fern, I have little doubt the former President is a coward and likely feels faint at the sight of blood. I also think he had a number of competing delusional notions of what was really supposed to happen that day whirling around in his tiny brain. Further, I am not convinced he is in control of himself, though it remains unclear who is actually pulling his strings.
The numbskulls assaulting the Capitol were rather lucky they didn't cause a violent police (or National Guard) response. Hundreds might have died. This does not detract from the serious crimes many of them committed and should be punished for. A few may have even learned an important lesson or two.
Hi David, good of you to respond. I am not one to speculate about the subsequent learnings of those who unlawfully entered and attacked The Capitol, the mental condition of the former president or his accessories, working ceaselessly to turn the USA into an autocracy. The country's leadership and the means to lawfully stop this growing 'cancer' appear to be moving much more slowly than those who are dismantling democracy. The use of violence as well as the manipulation of election processes and other functions of government cannot be ruled out. Citizens and pro-democracy organizations know the urgency of this matter.
'On June 21, 1788 nine out of the thirteen existing states ratified the United States Constitution, thus officially establishing the country’s independence and a new form of government. Based on the date of the constitution, which is still in place, the United States is the oldest democracy in the world.' (oldest.org)
But our lives have been changing. The social discord, civil unrest, violence in the streets, the schools, the stores, etc., and the war within families have mushroomed. The loss of equality for all and the democratic principles, which we have been working toward for centuries may be too difficult for too many to absorb, but it is happening here and now.
https://www.oldest.org/politics/democracies/
The National Guard didn’t respond because someone inside the Pentagon prevented them from getting there. There were too many coincidental breaches to o ignore.
Seriously? Republicans were looking for legal loopholes? Surely you jest. They were rewriting the law ad hoc and on the hoof.
And if your go-to lawyer is Rudi Giuliani then the proof is in that you are planning a violent overthrow of government.
Lin, I and afraid as never before of what’s going on in our country. In order to be a nation of laws, we must operate legally and separate proven facts from suspicions. Yes, Giuliani a mob lawyer, but it was not illegal to go to him. Executives go to lawyers all the time and ask, “What are my options?” That’s not a crime. What they do with that advice is when crimes might be committed.
Yes, it was not illegal to call on Giuliani for legal advice. But ... Giuliani had been advocating overturning the election. And Jan6 was not the first time Giuliani incited a violent election related riot. Trump would have known that. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-watch/wp/2016/11/16/more-on-the-time-rudy-giuliani-helped-incite-a-riot-of-racist-cops/
NOT ONE OF THE THINGS THEY CONSIDERED WAS LEGAL. (And yes, I shouted that._
You are definitely not a lawyer, and equally definitely a political illiterate.
TCinLA, could you be specific? Did anyone in this chain say, “Not one of the things they considered was illegal”? Do you think it’s illegal to ask a lawyer to come up with options? Do you think it’s illegal to plan a violent attack if no action comes from that plan? Are you a lawyer?
I don’t know about that. Remember Trump’s “ will be wild?” invite for the 6th? They knew which windows at the Capitol weren’t secure, and they went armed. Not so legal.
That's what I've been thinking. That all this talk of overthrowing is not an actual crime or wrongdoing however much it should be. But I am not a lawyer. We need a lawyer here to spell out the possibilities.
Short answer: "Actively planning such an action (distributing guns, working out the logistics of an attack, actively opposing lawful authority, etc.) could be considered a seditious conspiracy." It hinges on whether there was imminent threat.
Keep in mind, the Pentagon delay in allowing the National Guard to respond, allowed the riot to escalate to a point that just clearing the Capitol without shooting was the difficult mission and as no logistics were in place for arrests, the militia trained and affiliated armed insurrectionists slipped away.
Unlike, in preparation for the peaceful anti Kavanaugh protests, when in the Capitol parking lot, many paddy wagons were on hand.
"The Brandenburg v. Ohio U.S. Supreme Court decision maintains that seditious speech—including speech that constitutes an incitement to violence—is protected by the First Amendment to the United States Constitution as long as it does not indicate an "imminent" threat."The federal law against seditious conspiracy can be found in Title 18 of the U.S. Code (which includes treason, rebellion, and similar offenses), specifically 18 U.S.C. § 2384. According to the statutory definition of sedition, it is a crime for two or more people within the jurisdiction of the United States:
To conspire to overthrow or destroy by force the government of the United States or to level war against them;
To oppose by force the authority of the United States government; to prevent, hinder, or delay by force the execution of any law of the United States; or
To take, seize, or possess by force any property of the United States contrary to the authority thereof.
Free Speech, Sedition, and Treason
"In order to get a conviction for seditious conspiracy, the government must prove that the defendant in fact conspired to use force. Simply advocating for the use of force is not the same thing and in most cases is protected as free speech under the First Amendment.For example, two or more people who give public speeches suggesting the need for a total revolution "by any means necessary" have not necessarily conspired to overthrow the government. Rather, they're just sharing their opinions, however unsavory. *But actively planning such an action (distributing guns, working out the logistics of an attack, actively opposing lawful authority, etc.) could be considered a seditious conspiracy.*
Not all things wrong are illegal. Men and women of good conscience will have to call out and confront the evil which is at the core of the intent to subvert and replace our form of democracy. The weight of public opinion and argument as to right and wrong are also core to faith in a way of life, laws that are just, institutions we establish to ensure continuity, and courts that seek justice, not merely prosecution of a legal case that may not yet have the established precedents upon which to resolve evil as a matter only of written laws.
Inciting a mob to forcefully invade the capitol and disrupt the vote certification was a "legal tactic"?
It all came down to Pence. Imagine if Pence had gone along with the coup. Imagine if he had questioned some states’ results, suspended the vote, and thrown the election to the House. After watching Pence kowtow to Trump for four years, it’s astonishing that he told Trump no.
Lindsey Graham knew the plan before Jan 6th. So did Kevin McCarthy, and other Republican leaders. They said nothing, did nothing to stop it. They were waiting to see how it played out. They would have gone along. No wonder McCarthy didn’t want there to be a Jan 6th Commission.
And now we know why Trump refused to intervene Jan 6th, why he waited for hours before saying anything to stop the rioters. The riot was part of his strategy. He was hoping the count would be delayed long enough that it couldn’t be completed on Jan 6th.
Imagine if Trump had replaced Pence before the election with a more craven Veep - Kristi Noem, say. We’d be living today under the reign of Trump. With constant protests and riots, and the National Guard in the streets. We came closer to this than we dare think.
Still is close, as 2024.
With all this knowledge of people and events conspiring for Jan 6th, should we turn up the pressure on Joe Manchin?
At this point, if we loose democracy, it would now be on his shoulders. Manchin has two choices.
1 stay with the Obstructionists, and end democracy. In which his legacy would be like Chamberlain and Calhoun’s.
2, he can vote for democracy, championing it, and take that back to West Virginia, and be remembered as a Churchill.
How does Joe Manchin look in the mirror and not realize what is at stake?
power and money is enough for Manchin, 40 years in West Virginia politics and he has done very very little for the people. West Virginia is in the bottom 10th percentile for child poverty, infrastructure, education, healthcare including maternal, child and infant mortality. corporate pollution, air and water quality, water accessibility...he does not really care.
Just like his neighbor, McConnell, who cons his constituents into believing he doing great things for them. Meanwhile the only thing improving is his bank account while the state continues its downward spiral
Maybe I missed it, but I've yet to hear about a comment from McConnell about the tornado(s) in his home state.
I live in KY and the only one I’ve heard address it is our Governor. Paul Rand is conspicuously absent also.
Paul jumped in immediately to send a letter to Biden asking him to approve aid requested by the Governor. Suddenly all the NO votes on disaster aid for hurricanes and fires are ignored when he needs to put on a show for his constituents. Where does he think the money would have come from since he turned down any funding. He even voted NO for 9/11 survivors funds. The GOP always has their hands out for this “socialism” they’ve been screaming is wrong as soon as it affects them.
They both gave boilerplate responses.
100%.
And top 10th in addiction, of many stripes. It’s the kind of chaos that keeps these creeps in power.
WVA needs a young inspiring candidate to run now against Joe Manchin.
Most of the young, inspiring and LITERATE West Virginians are fleeing the state.
Yes, a young, inspriing candidate to make sure that the Republicans win Manchin's seat. Manchin is irreplaceable until Democrats get 54 or 56 senators.
West Virginia U. is 248th among accredited colleges and universities. Not something to get excited about. Many among the population have forlorn looks of despair. Manchin is happy to walk across the bodies of the disenfranchised; or at the very least, those who believe themselves to be disenfranchised.
It is closer than 2024. If we lose the House and/or the Senate in 2022 the Republicans will do everything they can to hobble Biden and enact some really ant-iDemocratic laws. Simply put. We are running out of time folks.
What is highly disturbing to me, as I see it, is how many Americans (including some in Congress) do not see the gravity of this moment. With the likes of Bannon and Gaetz promoting the theme of 4,000 "storm troopers", shock and vigilance should become operatives.
And DeSantis trying to raise funds for his own standing army in Florida. Answering only to him I guess?? Horrifying!
Interesting that he has the National Guard! I surmise he sees himself as a self-appointed General to support his quest for authoritarianism.
A sort of Cruz/De Santis axis?
It really is. What are the folks in Florida saying?
Floriduhhhhh, say what?
Not much.
I believe there is a mix of disbelief and apathy when it comes to people's views on January 6 and the rise of the fascist Republican Party.
Apathy is what got us to this point. I would add to your "disbelief" "indifference" (which may be redundant apathy!).
Easy. $500K/year. It's what drives them all - profit over people if you will and BTW never mind the planet. Remember this: karma is a bitch and she is supremely pissed.
ted, I’m guessng you’re referring to Manchin's support for the proposed voting, campaign donation and gerrymandering bill. A couple of points:
1. Nobody in WVa would cheer Manchin if he voted to end the filibuster so this bill could pass. Most WVa voters (WVa went 68% for Trump in 2020) would consider Manchin a Chamberlain if he voted to end the filibuster.
2. Even if the For the People bill is passed, most of it will be undone by the Supreme Court in the inevitable lawsuits. Said court has already ruled that gerrymandering is fine and dandy, that corporate campaign donations and dark money can’t be regulated, and SCOTUS has already gutted the original (similar to For the People) Voting Rights Act. The Roberts court is all for ending democracy in support of their Republican sponsors.
I doubt few if any W. Virginians would even understand the reference to "Chamberlain". As to the SC, that Court lost its objectivity long ago. The Roberts Court defers to the Roman Church.
As for the Stench Court, not exactly. They are thoroughly out of sync with Pope Francis. They defer to far right wing branches of both Protestant and Roman Christianity.
Agreed. Perhaps I was too "broad brush", but with some members of the Court belonging to Opus Dei, a highly controversial RC secret organization, defining lines become blurred. And, yes, Protestants (think evangelicals) are just as bad.
If the court deferred to the church, it would declare capital punishment unconstitutional.
Perhaps. Most states have declared against capital punishment.
Not just W. Virginians. Everyone can blame Joe for his inaction, historians will get it right. Joe has been bought, corrupted by accepting oil and gas lobby campaign donations, and leaving education to rot in his state. If Joe could do the right thing here, then the court could be enlarged.
Yeah, but does Manchin care about history, or doing the right thing, or what we think? It doesn’t seem so. Such self-serving disregard puts him on a long list of current politicians who are happy to do the wrong thing if it benefits them and keeps them in power, history be damned. Ted Cruz. Matt Gaetz. Lindsey Graham. Mark Meadows. Trump. MTG. DeSantis. Greg Abbott. Grassley. Gosar. Mo Brooks. Jim Jordan. McConnell. Hawley. Cotton. And on and on. There are maybe a half-dozen Republicans (Cheney, Kinzinger, Meijer) who actually believe in democracy, and who think their party is on the road to autocracy. The rest are a bunch of craven hacks. Manchin, token Democrat, gets lost in the crowd.
We’re naive for thinking that all that flag-waving stuff about democracy matters to these folks. It doesn’t, it’s just window dressing.
The Supreme Court would uphold all or almost all of the bill, because the Constitution gives Congress the power to regulate federal elections.
JJ, I’m afraid not. Congress had already passed Voter Rights and Campaign Finance laws. This Supreme Court ruled them unconstitutional. That’s how we got Texas restricting voter access in 2020. That’s how we got Citizen’s United. The Supreme Court also ruled that gerrymandering is legal, signaling that if Congress passes a law outlawing gerrymandering, SCOTUS would also rule that it can’t be enforced. SCOTUS has ruled against most everything in the Power to the People act, in previous cases. They will likely do so again, if that bill ever passes.
Where would America be without the vigilance of the Supreme Court of the United States? Hallelujah. HELP.
$ and power.
This assumes Manchin cares, which I seriously doubt he does.
He and his family built their "empire" on the backs of coal miners. His son and daughter each have very lucrative positions. He is rightfully dubbed "Manchinema" at this point.
Morning JR…
Pence was under unbelievable pressure. I believe from reporting that it was his conversation with Dan Quail (an perhaps other convos like it) that pulled him back to reason from the precipice of treason.
Why didn't Fan Quail call the FBI???
Good ol’ boy club no-no.
And we know why donald didn't march with them or arrive once they were in control of the rooms....he couldn't be a physical part of the delay - just the trigger. I always wondered if the insurgents felt used once their dear leader failed to show up. I'm sure they thought he would match into the theater and take charge. Everyone seemed to be waiting for what to do next...because THEY had no plan for post takeover. Fortunately Pence did not have Steve Bannon's lust for attention or Meadow's anbition. Imagine if the Republicans had thought up a loophole where they could have replaced Pence! Now if Pence had gone to the FBI would he be a hero? Well he didn't. So he is just a coward to his cause and he was part of the coup even though he wasn't willing to sacrifice himself in battle.
No, they are proud to go to jail for their savior Trump.
A number of them said they assumed he was at the front or walking along with him - remember it was a big crowd and they didn't expect to necessarily be able to see him just because he was down somewhere at the far side of the group walking... as if.
From what I remember the Vice President refused to abandon the Capitol on Jan 6. And you have to wonder at what point did he first learn that the mob was chanting “Hang Mike Pence.”
Also don’t forget the aides who grabbed the ballots as they were being rushed off the floor that day. Had the ballots been destroyed or stolen then the certification process could have been halted and delayed.
Maybe he knew it was all theater? We will never know for sure:) That is the art of Mike Pence.
It was not all theatre. Trump attempted to overthrow the legitimately elected President. What happened was not reality TV.
It was reality.
We were talking about Pence and them running around saying hang him. not the insurrection
I think, had the Capitol Police not spirited Pence away safely, that Pence would have been hung or gravely injured.
I do not think that it was all harmless reality TV.
I do think Pence would be dead the rioters had found him.
I agree. It was an attack in which people were injured and killed. It was the real thing.
Yeah but I wonder how many of the people storming the Capitol may have thought that it was real.
I assume all but the proud boys and they would have run the hanging....which they would not have done to Pence. He might have gone to the stocks. I was never worried for him. I was worried for Nancy Pelosi and the non white Democrats.
No doubt he was calm as a cucumber when he came out of the chamber and they took him down the stairs. He didn't look look worried at all.
Graham is a sneaking snake, but this once, he may have done the right thing. Heather wrote that Graham, in his role as head of the Judiciary Committee, demanded "proof" that the election was stolen when the plan to overturn the election was revealed to him and others on January 2nd. Granted, it's not much, but his impersonation of a "speed bump" may have slowed things down.
It slowed nothing...it was verbal CYA for the record. He was totally on board. The key statement in this is...they all knew donald's plan and not one of the. Went to the FBI... Not even the head of the judicial committee went to the FBI! What is the legal aspects of knowing an overthrow of the US Government is being planned and the people that took an oath to uphold the constitution violated their oath? Wasn't it their job to stop the would be tyrant? Holy cow...anyone that had the memo and discussed which was the best approach to implementing the insurrection should be put on trial. At least half of the Republican house and Senate should be impeached. Then while their seats are hot but empty....pass the effing voting rights bills.
Impersonation of a "speed bump"! Thanks, a laugh with my first coffee.
The surest way to protect our democracy is to eliminate the electoral college and gerrymandering, and have the popular vote decide elections.
Minority rule is not right.
Easier said than done. It has to be done incrementally. First step is to eliminate the 'filibuster' in the Senate, then make sure Democratic control of both Houses is maintained in 2022. Failing that, what you suggest won't happen for generations. In 2022, Dems must get out the vote.
Amen.
The most surprising revelation:
Graham demanded proof.
The least surprising revelation:
Apparently, none of the people briefed called the attention of the FBI to the coming attempt to overturn the election.
Yes, I think that last is the most important line in this letter.
Graham Cracker demanded proof? This Crumbling Cracker once excoriated Tubby Trump and was the best buddy of John McCain. He sold his soul to play golf with the Dastardly Dotard. The only good thing about this over-toasted waffle is that he is a bachelor and, so far, hasn’t contributed to the gene pool.
Sold his ashen soul long ago!
Ashley Graham may have tried to give away his ashen soul, but no one would possibly have paid for that stinking rag.
Exactemundo, Prof!!
True-true. Surprising, indeed, this Graham proof issue. How compromised was/is the FBI? Don't we live in interesting times?
I'd much rather we didn't. I gave 'interesting' up when I retired from the USAF.
"May you live in interesting times" turns out to not actually be an ancient Chinese curse; however, it is in fact still a curse.
As a child of a USAF vet, I hear that.
Was there no one in the intelligence community/FBI with an ear to the ground to learn about the attempt to overturn the election?
My guess is that as with the Capitol Police, no one in charge thought people like *us* would do something like *that*.
What's astonishing is that the players at the center of this conspiracy to overthrow the US government and usurp power from the incoming president not only feel no shame but are doubling down by ignoring subpoenas and making false claims of immunity. And, even worse, they're getting away with it. I have to wonder if there is any other country in the world where a former leader can foment an insurrection and pressure officials to lie and defy legal precedent to hold on to power and then brazenly continue to undermine the legitimacy of his successor- and face no consequences. Trump is reputed to have once said he could shoot someone in public in New York City and get away it. But that's nothing compared to what he's getting away with now.
What was that comment about a 'shit hole country'?
This is happening all around the world. Turkey, Belarus and of course China and Russia.
Richard, Regrettably, the foregoing behaviors, replete with impunity, are indicative of a backsliding democracy. That said, everyday citizens need to determine how to spread their attention between the attempt to overthrow the last election and efforts currently underway to use the big lie as groundwork for changing election rules to change who can be in charge, how votes are counted, how they’re certified, and so forth.
Thank you for the timeline of how the coup was planned. Everyone of those in Congress who knew are insurrectionists and unfaithful to their oaths to uphold the Constitution. This makes my hair stand on end.
They're Traitors.
Then there are those Repubs who have fallen lockstep behind their “leader” promoting the “Big Lie“ and hoping vigorous denials will sail them through….where does their complicity fall?
"Conspiracy" casts a wide net. Conspirators don't even have to have known other conspirators to be guilty of it.
Then was there a central coordinator everyone was working with? The whole thing seems helter skelter at this point. I imagine the January 6 Committee has all the moving parts. We just don't know them yet.
Donald John Trump, Dirtbag Extraordinaire and would be Dictator. There’s a reason that he studied Hitler when he was with still with Ivana back in the late 80s
They’re dirt. They’re garbage.
Which ones in Congress knew?
It is possible that the Jan 6 committee knows who they are.
Most if not all of the Reekpublicans
And when will they all be handcuffed, arrested, tried, and thrown in jail for life? WHEN? Each one of these traitors are still a danger to our country!
"A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murderer is less to fear."
Taylor Caldwell, *A Pillar of Iron*
Before they're all arrested, they all need subpoenas under their Christmas tree, Donald, don Jr, Ivanka, Jared and oh yeah, that former first lady
Please add Ginny Thomas
She and her husband are sadly unhappy people.
This tells it all. Explains why our friends and neighbors have become strangers, fools, ambitious, and often enemies. The cult has no off switch
Error: "Each one of these traitors IS not "are."
Powerful, Rowshan!
Thank you Heather for yet another excellent Letter that connects the dots. Today the Tampa Bay Times printed my letter to the editor that attempts to follow your example on a much smaller scale:
UF president needs to answer report findings | Editorial, Dec. 8
Gov. Ron DeSantis has very publicly positioned himself as the defender of our freedom to choose (anything but abortion, of course). And then he quietly takes away our access to accurate data, on which to base our choices: (1) Daily COVID updates are now weekly; (2) Location of outbreaks (schools, hospitals, nursing homes, businesses, government offices) are no longer released, even to those who work there; (3) No information is posted on the percentage of breakthrough infections; (4) No state public service announcements encouraging masks and vaccines; (5) And now state pressure on researchers and universities to destroy data that contradicts the governor and Legislature. This isn’t freedom, folks. This is the behavior of wannabe autocrats who are systematically suppressing our freedom to know, while pretending to champion it. It’s an old playbook and a very dangerous one.
Diane Love, St. Petersburg
https://tampabaytimes-fl.newsmemory.com/?publink=2cb0aa77e_1346030
Freedom from information
tampabay.com/letters
Thanks to all for your encouragement! I’ve had many letters to the editor published over the years, but, none of my recent ones criticizing DeSantis until now. It felt like a victory.
Excellent LTE Diane.
Thank you TC, coming from you it means a great deal.
Every small victory adds up! Thank you for your energy! ❤️
Great letter, Diane! What's important is that it reached a quarter of a million readers which I believe is the TBT's daily circulation. (That's far more than HCR gets here each day.) Others should do the same!
I could swear I read that HCR has ~300,000 subscribers.
I agree with your guesstimate -- she's done a lot of good for all of us with these letters. I wish she had more subscribers, in every area of the nation, and in all walks of life. She's teaching us the history of the country, good, bad, ugly and beautiful, without "slant" or "spin," which is what the best historians invariably do.
I've learned more history in the past two years from the LfaA than I did in my 17 years of formal education, plus any time since in my (now) long life.
I've certainly learned a lot of history as well, and gotten a huge amount from her analysis of what's going on.
that doesn't take away from Diane's accomplishment
Fantastic Diane!! Thank you for sharing it here. 🙏❤️
Thanks for writing/sharing, Diane ! Not to mention DeSantis’ disinformation campaign with his sidekick Surgeon General Ladapo.
That Florida Surgeon General is a few cards short of a full deck. The Tallahassee Democrat did a fact-check on Ladapo's public statements:
"“Remember when people were telling you that these vaccines would stop transmission and the rate of protection was greater than 90%? Ten months later we’re finding that the rate of protection is less than 40% than some of them. This idea that we are foolish for not believing things we don't have data for is ridiculous. People need to stick to their intuition and sensibilities.”
The fact-check disagrees: "The Pfizer, Moderna and Johnson & Johnson vaccines were all rigorously tested before the FDA gave emergency use authorization last November. Pfizer and Moderna, which are mRNA vaccines, were found to be 85% effective against infection and 95% effective against hospitalization or death, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention said. The Johnson & Johnson vaccine was found to be 65% effective against infection and 85% against hospitalization or death, the CDC said."
Ladapo said, “The infections will happen whether people are vaccinated or not. That’s obvious. First, experts said breakthrough infections were rare, but that isn’t the case. They’re obviously not rare. They’re common, that's the truth.”
The fact-checkers addressed this, too:
"Not according to the CDC, Johns Hopkins and recent medical research.
"Breakthrough cases are very rare, according to a recent study in the New England Journal of Medicine. It published a study of breakthroughs among a group of healthcare workers at the largest hospital in Israel. Of the 1,497 vaccinated workers tested, only 2.6% were positive for COVID-19, far lower than the rate for the entire country."
Ladapo, again, "“You hear these stories. People telling you what’s been happening in their lives. Nurses, pregnant women are sort of being forced to put something in their bodies we don't know all there is to know about yet no matter what people on TV tell you. It’s just not true. We are going to learn more about the truth of these vaccines."
The fact-checkers disagree: "The vaccine is highly recommended for pregnant and lactating women as well as those trying to get pregnant, the CDC said. Symptomatic pregnant people who contract COVID-19 are more at risk of severe illness, complications and death than those who are not pregnant, Johns Hopkins University reported."
“There isn't doubt about the risk-benefit ratio,” Nissola said.
The "Nissola" referenced here is Dr. Leo Nissola, Leo Nissola, MD, is a medical doctor, immunologist, scientist, and cancer researcher focused on drug development. Former Medical Oncology fellow at the University of Texas MD Anderson Cancer Center in Houston, where he served the clinical team supporting prostate cancer (FIH/I-3) clinical trials.
Currently, he is an Advisor in the Coronavirus pandemic, advising Health and Elected United States officials to prepare for and mitigate risks of COVID-19. Recently, at the Parker Institute for Cancer Immunotherapy, Dr. Nissola designed the world's first-ever immunotherapy platform study for advanced prostate cancer, collaborating with America's most prestigious academic institutions.
But that doesn't seem to faze Joseph Ladapo at all, in his bid to curry favor with Ron DeSantis.
There are more of Ladapo's statements and fact-checks in the article. Well worth reading.
https://www.tallahassee.com/story/news/local/state/2021/10/25/florida-surgeon-general-fact-check-joseph-ladapo-ron-desantis-vaccine-breakthrough-natural-immunity/6134660001/
I am sure this will sound somewhat pathetic compared to the well-written, articulate comments already written, but I cried while I read this post by HCR, just like I cried while I watched the news video of the insurrection on news video on January 6th. How can this happen?? How can we stop this radical right-wing takeover of our country? This isn't who we are or should be. May God bless America and bring us back to the strong nation we were and should always be. I will be actively working to support & fund voting rights to the extent that I can. We cannot let the right wing takeover in 2022 and 2024.
Sadly, MJ, this is who we are and have been since we started telling ourselves fairytales about how wonderful the USA is. We need to start looking at our sins that began to accumulate long before the 1619 importation of Africans to this continent.
Until someone makes an update, I'm in favor of giving every schoolchild a copy of A People's History of the United States with thanks to Howard Zinn.
Within the last week or so, someone made a comment here regarding Germany and another country (how is that for a demonstration of how a 60+ year old brain works on insufficient caffeine?) and their rejection of the abuses their government had engineered.
The US needs to acknowledge the near extermination of the Indigenous Population upon its arrival on this continent and the enslavement of Blacks since 1619 is what built this country's foundation, and vow to repair/rebuild/restore what was taken from these peoples in order to build this country. Then, and only then, will we recover from this morass.
No truer words, Ally. A reckoning, we must have.
Truth.
You GO, girl! Zinn, it is!
Rosalind I so agree with you. When people ask “what good is it to understand our history and to go that far back?” I think it serves two very important purposes:
1) it makes us less arrogant and more humble as we move around in the world.
2) and by acknowledging our past sins (many of which are still happening now,) we are able to make changes.
My tears may not come as easily as yours, but my heart breaks. Thank you for your work and support! Our future, what we may have of it, depends upon you and people like you.
Tonight’s letter is a welcome dose of Vitamin H……Hope
Curious where you find the hope in it? It terrifies me. These people are going to be in charge of the whole show again a year from now unless every person in this readership starts phonebanking and post-carding and getting out the vote in the many states where it's now much harder to vote than in 2020--and even then the gerrymandered redistricting may make Democratic wins impossible.
Knowledge is always the first step. Clamoring for every news source to make the PowerPoint front and center of their megaphones all next week would be time we’ll used.
The hope is in the shining of light. A timeline of the attempted coup made public means that the entire world is now putting attention on these crimes. Sure it’s terrifying. But knowledge is power, like Christy says
That we know is unfortunately pretty meaningless in light of the stranglehold put in place to keep the 73 million who refuse to know voting in the dark. The days of revelation are over. But not the days of busting our asses to get out the vote where it’s been made so hard. It is still technically possible to win a couple new House members and save the others. IF everyone gets to work. Now!
Mary you’re wonderful. It is dedication like yours that produced the January 5 Georgia miracle, my term for two underdog Democrat challengers, a Jewish man and a black man, unseating two white incumbent Republican senators and turning the Senate blue by the slimmest of margins. It is difficult to draw any other conclusion except that Stacey Abrams and Voto Latino and others somehow produced that miracle by getting out the vote. By all means maintain that passion and fire and inspire people to join you.
Roland, will you join me?
What do you have in mind?
Roland: the entire world, yes. And it was the Guardian, no less.
Yes, good old Guardian. But the US version.
Which I read in Australia.
Interesting--you read the US version? I wonder if I could read the Australian version? What I most wish I could read is the UK version. I grew up there, lived there again as an adult, am very interested in UK news. But it won't send me that now!
I'm afraid you may be right.
You bet she's right. It all hangs on the "unless". We went through this for so long for a good three years - singing funny songs, laughing with Randy Rainbow, and John Oliver, staying focused and determined, and so we WON, and then look what happened.
I think an important thing to keep in mind is the untold number of executive agency and legislative branch employees whose names we will probably never know, for whom this all was just another day at the office. Who were just beavering away at their jobs, taking care of the mundane details of overthrowing the government.
The procedural violence to regular order and institutional norms has been GOP business as usual since Newt Gingrich and is perhaps best personified by Mitch McConnell. The Republican attack on constitutional law, epitomized by the GOP insurrection on Jan 6, is not possible without an entire scaffolding propping it up. In this case, the entire apparatus of the Republican party and each person it employs.
TRUTH. How are we going to fix THAT? I don't have any idea. The cockroaches are EVERYWHERE.
And most voters that I talk to don't realize what has happened or can't believe it.
Keep talking. Volunteer for your local Democratic committee. Volunteer on individual Democratic campaigns. Volunteer with the League of Women Voters. Volunteer with organizations like the Sierra Club on letter writing initiatives. . .
I'm in Fairlight, transferring to Stacey, and still in Indivisible GA10. Regular donor to several candidates, transferring all money to Stacey and Warnock . By midyear 22 I will have legally maxed out to both of them.
You want me to write some postcards? Been there, done that. Sorry I'm being sarcastic. Doing all I can.
ThankYou!! ThankYou!!
You are the solution!!!
"procedural violence to regular order and institutional norms"
That should be on each and every indictment. What a turn of phrase. I will steal it!
ThankYou! Totally in the public domain! Yours for the taking:)
The real American contribution to the art of corruption is our ability to corrupt whole systems so that otherwise honest or unsuspecting people get caught up in nefarious activities either unwittingly or in order to remain employed (or even employable).
I think that you are describing what Hannah Arendt termed 'the banality of evil'. And the Nazi regime beat us to it.
Excellent point.
No argument here, but the most active insurrectionists (for whom there is sufficient evidence) can and MUST be held accountable.
Absolutely.
Yes, look at the guy who was arrested for carrying a loaded Glock through security into a government building! Can't remember which building. Jeez.
Thank you for this clear summation of the plot to overthrow the government. We are living through an historical crisis point. May we have the will and courage to do what is necessary---the enemy has been at work for years. The Democrats and all true Patriots (not the Fake Patriots) need to get to work. Messaging by Schumer; Messaging by Pelosi; Messaging by DNC --- Absolutely.Necessary.NOW! They are failures so far. May they finally wake up before it really is too late.
Peace and Courage to All the People.
You reap what you sow -
California Governor Gavin Newsome pledges to use latest SCOTUS decision supported by Conservative majority to make a point showing the danger of states enacting laws to defy federal rights. If states can restrict women’s reproductive rights, then that same approach can be used to restrict the sale of assault weapons and ghost guns. Tit for tat, you reap what you sow. This was forecast to happen following SCOTUS decision this week. The dissenters to the decision predicted it, including Chief Justice Roberts.
https://www.npr.org/2021/12/12/1063489922/california-governor-gavin-newsom-assault-weapons-ban-texas-abortion-law
California Gov. Gavin Newsom said Saturday he will push for a new law modeled on Texas’ abortion ban that would let private citizens sue anyone who makes or sells assault weapons or ghost guns.
Newsom has excoriated the Texas law for limiting women’s access to abortion by allowing people to sue anyone who “aids or abets” one performed after about six weeks, before many women know they are pregnant. Nevertheless, he said the Supreme Court’s decision Friday to let the law stay in effect while legal challenges proceed has opened an avenue for states to circumvent federal courts.
In a statement Saturday evening, Newsom pointed to a recent federal court decision to strike down California’s assault weapons ban. In his decision, a judge compared assault weapons to Swiss Army knives, language Newsom has harshly criticized.
“I am outraged by yesterday’s U.S. Supreme Court decision allowing Texas’s ban on most abortion services to remain in place,” Newsom said. “But if states can now shield their laws from review by the federal courts that compare assault weapons to Swiss Army knives, then California will use that authority to protect people’s lives, where Texas used it to put women in harm’s way.”
Newsom said he will work with his staff, the Legislature and California Attorney General Rob Bonta to craft a bill that would let citizens sue anyone who “manufactures, distributes, or sells an assault weapon or ghost gun kit or parts” in California. They could seek damages of at least $10,000 per violation plus costs and attorney’s fees, Newsom said.
“If the most efficient way to keep these devastating weapons off our streets is to add the threat of private lawsuits, we should do just that,” said Newsom, a longtime advocate of strict gun control laws.
California has banned the manufacture and sale of many assault-style weapons for decades. A federal judge overturned that ban in June, ruling it was unconstitutional and drawing the ire of the state's Democratic leaders by comparing the popular AR-15 rifle to a Swiss Army knife as "good for both home and battle." California's ban remained in place while the state appealed.
Hero’s are everywhere. Thank you CA voters who turned out to keep him in office.
Newsom is not perfect but he’s done a fantastic job at the important stuff. Homeless were gotten off the street during the pandemic and so many other things. We got Covid under control with his restrictions and plans. I don’t care if he went to a fancy dinner during Covid or if he lives in his own home instead of the Governor’s mansion. I care about his policies for the people of the state. People that fuss about these other things are jealous. We all know most politicians are elected because they are wealthy and have a wide range of influential backers.
Even Kavanaugh forecast this effect, but seems to have sided with chaos in the judiciary, spilling over into legislation. I try to imagine the scenarios where these justices plot out their decisions - Thomas’s kitchen? Over drinks in chambers? In concrete bunkers?
Hope every democratic governor does the same as Newsom. Something good might finally come our way.
I have to get used to "nothing is enough". What you have written in this letter listing all the who and when and what we know so far about the coup attempt is totally damning. If this were Watergate, and there were any ethics left in the R's, this material would be enough to convict. But in a time when the same people don't believe there is a deadly pandemic raging around the world and in their own states, expecting rational responses to a coup attempt in the US is not real. Boggles the mind.
I agree, Carole. It does indeed boggle the mind and sets us on a course to fiddle while Rome burns. With dark money and Gerrymandering the far right branch of the Republican party has set the stage for minority rule that may last for the rest of my lifetime if successful. I think it's time for us to hit the streets. 2017 Women's March style.
Yes! My head is shaking on a daily basis!
If there were any ethics in the R's they would have convicted him at the second impeachment, let alone the first.
So true. How their hypocrisy carried them over that burden was also baffling. McConnell has amazing power over the lemmings as does the orange man. If we weren't living it, it would be interesting social psychology. But it's not.
If only something can finalize what is clear and now footnoted. What more do we need? Sanity.
Benghazi, Benghazi, Benghazi. All spring, all summer, right up to November.
So to use the R's playbook, our mantra is???? All my word choices don't say the story in one word. Coup?, insurrection?, Capitol trashing. Help.
perilously close...and working, they are, to ensure the ability to take the next election. America, who are we?
These sitting congresscritters who were involved, shouldn't there be consequences?
Good argument, "Yoda." :-)
Traitors they are, hung they must be.
Thank you, Yoda. :-)
Ally! You surprise me! (pleasantly)
😁
TC called you Yoda. That’s high praise coming from the master of hard-bitten realism.
Well, that's all true, but the real reason was she said it in "Yoda grammar." :-)
Silly man, of course I know that. Do you think I’m a dummy? I’m rolling with it Baby! When somebody calls kim “Yoda” you gotta run with it. You don’t take the time to explain a running joke, you take the baton and run with it for a while and then hand it off to the next person. Maybe you swap the baton out for another one that you had in your pocket, and see if anybody notices. It’s like the game “telephone.“ It changes as it moves.
My Aspergian stodginess in action. :-)
You started a great conversation train TC and it’s fun playing in your living room
I was using the opportunity to praise kim, since you handed me that opportunity on a silver platter. kim is obviously a magnificent person, that has been evident for quite some time, and I’m not sure I’ve ever given her a compliment, so this was a golden opportunity.
you boys do me great honor...Both of you are quite wondrous and I send you love and pagan blessings
Oops, this is kim’s thread not yours. All the more reason to give her some respect.
I'm honored.
Like I have said before regarding other “Heather Letters”, the drums are rolling in the background but their tone is getting a little louder now. Methodically, the Select Committee is issuing subpoenas to TFG’s and Pence’s staff members. What did they know and when did they know that a coup was planned and who initiated it? I say grab their many passports (think Jeffrey Epstein) so they cannot leave the country via Putin-provided aircraft or submarine. Let’s see if Christopher Wray will do his job. Let’s also see if those pleading the fifth, will be held in contempt and treated to a pair of handcuffs.
Frankly, I would love to see several participants on a sub to Russia...
How about asking Elon Musk - or good ol' Jeff Bezos - if they have a oneway spaceship that could accommodate a Greyhound Bus number of folks to, let's say, Uranus.
My junior high pronunciation of that planet makes me laugh at the imagery. Would a black hole constitute the a**hole of space?
waaaay too funny
🤣
LOL but we cannot keep polluting space!
😁
Save us all a lot of trouble.