It all came down to Pence. Imagine if Pence had gone along with the coup. Imagine if he had questioned some states’ results, suspended the vote, and thrown the election to the House. After watching Pence kowtow to Trump for four years, it’s astonishing that he told Trump no.
Lindsey Graham knew the plan before Jan 6th. So did Kevin McCart…
It all came down to Pence. Imagine if Pence had gone along with the coup. Imagine if he had questioned some states’ results, suspended the vote, and thrown the election to the House. After watching Pence kowtow to Trump for four years, it’s astonishing that he told Trump no.
Lindsey Graham knew the plan before Jan 6th. So did Kevin McCarthy, and other Republican leaders. They said nothing, did nothing to stop it. They were waiting to see how it played out. They would have gone along. No wonder McCarthy didn’t want there to be a Jan 6th Commission.
And now we know why Trump refused to intervene Jan 6th, why he waited for hours before saying anything to stop the rioters. The riot was part of his strategy. He was hoping the count would be delayed long enough that it couldn’t be completed on Jan 6th.
Imagine if Trump had replaced Pence before the election with a more craven Veep - Kristi Noem, say. We’d be living today under the reign of Trump. With constant protests and riots, and the National Guard in the streets. We came closer to this than we dare think.
power and money is enough for Manchin, 40 years in West Virginia politics and he has done very very little for the people. West Virginia is in the bottom 10th percentile for child poverty, infrastructure, education, healthcare including maternal, child and infant mortality. corporate pollution, air and water quality, water accessibility...he does not really care.
Just like his neighbor, McConnell, who cons his constituents into believing he doing great things for them. Meanwhile the only thing improving is his bank account while the state continues its downward spiral
Paul jumped in immediately to send a letter to Biden asking him to approve aid requested by the Governor. Suddenly all the NO votes on disaster aid for hurricanes and fires are ignored when he needs to put on a show for his constituents. Where does he think the money would have come from since he turned down any funding. He even voted NO for 9/11 survivors funds. The GOP always has their hands out for this “socialism” they’ve been screaming is wrong as soon as it affects them.
Yes, a young, inspriing candidate to make sure that the Republicans win Manchin's seat. Manchin is irreplaceable until Democrats get 54 or 56 senators.
West Virginia U. is 248th among accredited colleges and universities. Not something to get excited about. Many among the population have forlorn looks of despair. Manchin is happy to walk across the bodies of the disenfranchised; or at the very least, those who believe themselves to be disenfranchised.
It is closer than 2024. If we lose the House and/or the Senate in 2022 the Republicans will do everything they can to hobble Biden and enact some really ant-iDemocratic laws. Simply put. We are running out of time folks.
What is highly disturbing to me, as I see it, is how many Americans (including some in Congress) do not see the gravity of this moment. With the likes of Bannon and Gaetz promoting the theme of 4,000 "storm troopers", shock and vigilance should become operatives.
Easy. $500K/year. It's what drives them all - profit over people if you will and BTW never mind the planet. Remember this: karma is a bitch and she is supremely pissed.
ted, I’m guessng you’re referring to Manchin's support for the proposed voting, campaign donation and gerrymandering bill. A couple of points:
1. Nobody in WVa would cheer Manchin if he voted to end the filibuster so this bill could pass. Most WVa voters (WVa went 68% for Trump in 2020) would consider Manchin a Chamberlain if he voted to end the filibuster.
2. Even if the For the People bill is passed, most of it will be undone by the Supreme Court in the inevitable lawsuits. Said court has already ruled that gerrymandering is fine and dandy, that corporate campaign donations and dark money can’t be regulated, and SCOTUS has already gutted the original (similar to For the People) Voting Rights Act. The Roberts court is all for ending democracy in support of their Republican sponsors.
I doubt few if any W. Virginians would even understand the reference to "Chamberlain". As to the SC, that Court lost its objectivity long ago. The Roberts Court defers to the Roman Church.
As for the Stench Court, not exactly. They are thoroughly out of sync with Pope Francis. They defer to far right wing branches of both Protestant and Roman Christianity.
Agreed. Perhaps I was too "broad brush", but with some members of the Court belonging to Opus Dei, a highly controversial RC secret organization, defining lines become blurred. And, yes, Protestants (think evangelicals) are just as bad.
Not just W. Virginians. Everyone can blame Joe for his inaction, historians will get it right. Joe has been bought, corrupted by accepting oil and gas lobby campaign donations, and leaving education to rot in his state. If Joe could do the right thing here, then the court could be enlarged.
Yeah, but does Manchin care about history, or doing the right thing, or what we think? It doesn’t seem so. Such self-serving disregard puts him on a long list of current politicians who are happy to do the wrong thing if it benefits them and keeps them in power, history be damned. Ted Cruz. Matt Gaetz. Lindsey Graham. Mark Meadows. Trump. MTG. DeSantis. Greg Abbott. Grassley. Gosar. Mo Brooks. Jim Jordan. McConnell. Hawley. Cotton. And on and on. There are maybe a half-dozen Republicans (Cheney, Kinzinger, Meijer) who actually believe in democracy, and who think their party is on the road to autocracy. The rest are a bunch of craven hacks. Manchin, token Democrat, gets lost in the crowd.
We’re naive for thinking that all that flag-waving stuff about democracy matters to these folks. It doesn’t, it’s just window dressing.
JJ, I’m afraid not. Congress had already passed Voter Rights and Campaign Finance laws. This Supreme Court ruled them unconstitutional. That’s how we got Texas restricting voter access in 2020. That’s how we got Citizen’s United. The Supreme Court also ruled that gerrymandering is legal, signaling that if Congress passes a law outlawing gerrymandering, SCOTUS would also rule that it can’t be enforced. SCOTUS has ruled against most everything in the Power to the People act, in previous cases. They will likely do so again, if that bill ever passes.
He and his family built their "empire" on the backs of coal miners. His son and daughter each have very lucrative positions. He is rightfully dubbed "Manchinema" at this point.
Pence was under unbelievable pressure. I believe from reporting that it was his conversation with Dan Quail (an perhaps other convos like it) that pulled him back to reason from the precipice of treason.
And we know why donald didn't march with them or arrive once they were in control of the rooms....he couldn't be a physical part of the delay - just the trigger. I always wondered if the insurgents felt used once their dear leader failed to show up. I'm sure they thought he would match into the theater and take charge. Everyone seemed to be waiting for what to do next...because THEY had no plan for post takeover. Fortunately Pence did not have Steve Bannon's lust for attention or Meadow's anbition. Imagine if the Republicans had thought up a loophole where they could have replaced Pence! Now if Pence had gone to the FBI would he be a hero? Well he didn't. So he is just a coward to his cause and he was part of the coup even though he wasn't willing to sacrifice himself in battle.
A number of them said they assumed he was at the front or walking along with him - remember it was a big crowd and they didn't expect to necessarily be able to see him just because he was down somewhere at the far side of the group walking... as if.
From what I remember the Vice President refused to abandon the Capitol on Jan 6. And you have to wonder at what point did he first learn that the mob was chanting “Hang Mike Pence.”
Also don’t forget the aides who grabbed the ballots as they were being rushed off the floor that day. Had the ballots been destroyed or stolen then the certification process could have been halted and delayed.
I assume all but the proud boys and they would have run the hanging....which they would not have done to Pence. He might have gone to the stocks. I was never worried for him. I was worried for Nancy Pelosi and the non white Democrats.
Graham is a sneaking snake, but this once, he may have done the right thing. Heather wrote that Graham, in his role as head of the Judiciary Committee, demanded "proof" that the election was stolen when the plan to overturn the election was revealed to him and others on January 2nd. Granted, it's not much, but his impersonation of a "speed bump" may have slowed things down.
It slowed nothing...it was verbal CYA for the record. He was totally on board. The key statement in this is...they all knew donald's plan and not one of the. Went to the FBI... Not even the head of the judicial committee went to the FBI! What is the legal aspects of knowing an overthrow of the US Government is being planned and the people that took an oath to uphold the constitution violated their oath? Wasn't it their job to stop the would be tyrant? Holy cow...anyone that had the memo and discussed which was the best approach to implementing the insurrection should be put on trial. At least half of the Republican house and Senate should be impeached. Then while their seats are hot but empty....pass the effing voting rights bills.
It all came down to Pence. Imagine if Pence had gone along with the coup. Imagine if he had questioned some states’ results, suspended the vote, and thrown the election to the House. After watching Pence kowtow to Trump for four years, it’s astonishing that he told Trump no.
Lindsey Graham knew the plan before Jan 6th. So did Kevin McCarthy, and other Republican leaders. They said nothing, did nothing to stop it. They were waiting to see how it played out. They would have gone along. No wonder McCarthy didn’t want there to be a Jan 6th Commission.
And now we know why Trump refused to intervene Jan 6th, why he waited for hours before saying anything to stop the rioters. The riot was part of his strategy. He was hoping the count would be delayed long enough that it couldn’t be completed on Jan 6th.
Imagine if Trump had replaced Pence before the election with a more craven Veep - Kristi Noem, say. We’d be living today under the reign of Trump. With constant protests and riots, and the National Guard in the streets. We came closer to this than we dare think.
Still is close, as 2024.
With all this knowledge of people and events conspiring for Jan 6th, should we turn up the pressure on Joe Manchin?
At this point, if we loose democracy, it would now be on his shoulders. Manchin has two choices.
1 stay with the Obstructionists, and end democracy. In which his legacy would be like Chamberlain and Calhoun’s.
2, he can vote for democracy, championing it, and take that back to West Virginia, and be remembered as a Churchill.
How does Joe Manchin look in the mirror and not realize what is at stake?
power and money is enough for Manchin, 40 years in West Virginia politics and he has done very very little for the people. West Virginia is in the bottom 10th percentile for child poverty, infrastructure, education, healthcare including maternal, child and infant mortality. corporate pollution, air and water quality, water accessibility...he does not really care.
Just like his neighbor, McConnell, who cons his constituents into believing he doing great things for them. Meanwhile the only thing improving is his bank account while the state continues its downward spiral
Maybe I missed it, but I've yet to hear about a comment from McConnell about the tornado(s) in his home state.
I live in KY and the only one I’ve heard address it is our Governor. Paul Rand is conspicuously absent also.
Paul jumped in immediately to send a letter to Biden asking him to approve aid requested by the Governor. Suddenly all the NO votes on disaster aid for hurricanes and fires are ignored when he needs to put on a show for his constituents. Where does he think the money would have come from since he turned down any funding. He even voted NO for 9/11 survivors funds. The GOP always has their hands out for this “socialism” they’ve been screaming is wrong as soon as it affects them.
They both gave boilerplate responses.
100%.
And top 10th in addiction, of many stripes. It’s the kind of chaos that keeps these creeps in power.
WVA needs a young inspiring candidate to run now against Joe Manchin.
Most of the young, inspiring and LITERATE West Virginians are fleeing the state.
Yes, a young, inspriing candidate to make sure that the Republicans win Manchin's seat. Manchin is irreplaceable until Democrats get 54 or 56 senators.
West Virginia U. is 248th among accredited colleges and universities. Not something to get excited about. Many among the population have forlorn looks of despair. Manchin is happy to walk across the bodies of the disenfranchised; or at the very least, those who believe themselves to be disenfranchised.
It is closer than 2024. If we lose the House and/or the Senate in 2022 the Republicans will do everything they can to hobble Biden and enact some really ant-iDemocratic laws. Simply put. We are running out of time folks.
What is highly disturbing to me, as I see it, is how many Americans (including some in Congress) do not see the gravity of this moment. With the likes of Bannon and Gaetz promoting the theme of 4,000 "storm troopers", shock and vigilance should become operatives.
And DeSantis trying to raise funds for his own standing army in Florida. Answering only to him I guess?? Horrifying!
Interesting that he has the National Guard! I surmise he sees himself as a self-appointed General to support his quest for authoritarianism.
A sort of Cruz/De Santis axis?
It really is. What are the folks in Florida saying?
Floriduhhhhh, say what?
Not much.
I believe there is a mix of disbelief and apathy when it comes to people's views on January 6 and the rise of the fascist Republican Party.
Apathy is what got us to this point. I would add to your "disbelief" "indifference" (which may be redundant apathy!).
Easy. $500K/year. It's what drives them all - profit over people if you will and BTW never mind the planet. Remember this: karma is a bitch and she is supremely pissed.
ted, I’m guessng you’re referring to Manchin's support for the proposed voting, campaign donation and gerrymandering bill. A couple of points:
1. Nobody in WVa would cheer Manchin if he voted to end the filibuster so this bill could pass. Most WVa voters (WVa went 68% for Trump in 2020) would consider Manchin a Chamberlain if he voted to end the filibuster.
2. Even if the For the People bill is passed, most of it will be undone by the Supreme Court in the inevitable lawsuits. Said court has already ruled that gerrymandering is fine and dandy, that corporate campaign donations and dark money can’t be regulated, and SCOTUS has already gutted the original (similar to For the People) Voting Rights Act. The Roberts court is all for ending democracy in support of their Republican sponsors.
I doubt few if any W. Virginians would even understand the reference to "Chamberlain". As to the SC, that Court lost its objectivity long ago. The Roberts Court defers to the Roman Church.
As for the Stench Court, not exactly. They are thoroughly out of sync with Pope Francis. They defer to far right wing branches of both Protestant and Roman Christianity.
Agreed. Perhaps I was too "broad brush", but with some members of the Court belonging to Opus Dei, a highly controversial RC secret organization, defining lines become blurred. And, yes, Protestants (think evangelicals) are just as bad.
If the court deferred to the church, it would declare capital punishment unconstitutional.
Perhaps. Most states have declared against capital punishment.
Not just W. Virginians. Everyone can blame Joe for his inaction, historians will get it right. Joe has been bought, corrupted by accepting oil and gas lobby campaign donations, and leaving education to rot in his state. If Joe could do the right thing here, then the court could be enlarged.
Yeah, but does Manchin care about history, or doing the right thing, or what we think? It doesn’t seem so. Such self-serving disregard puts him on a long list of current politicians who are happy to do the wrong thing if it benefits them and keeps them in power, history be damned. Ted Cruz. Matt Gaetz. Lindsey Graham. Mark Meadows. Trump. MTG. DeSantis. Greg Abbott. Grassley. Gosar. Mo Brooks. Jim Jordan. McConnell. Hawley. Cotton. And on and on. There are maybe a half-dozen Republicans (Cheney, Kinzinger, Meijer) who actually believe in democracy, and who think their party is on the road to autocracy. The rest are a bunch of craven hacks. Manchin, token Democrat, gets lost in the crowd.
We’re naive for thinking that all that flag-waving stuff about democracy matters to these folks. It doesn’t, it’s just window dressing.
The Supreme Court would uphold all or almost all of the bill, because the Constitution gives Congress the power to regulate federal elections.
JJ, I’m afraid not. Congress had already passed Voter Rights and Campaign Finance laws. This Supreme Court ruled them unconstitutional. That’s how we got Texas restricting voter access in 2020. That’s how we got Citizen’s United. The Supreme Court also ruled that gerrymandering is legal, signaling that if Congress passes a law outlawing gerrymandering, SCOTUS would also rule that it can’t be enforced. SCOTUS has ruled against most everything in the Power to the People act, in previous cases. They will likely do so again, if that bill ever passes.
Where would America be without the vigilance of the Supreme Court of the United States? Hallelujah. HELP.
$ and power.
This assumes Manchin cares, which I seriously doubt he does.
He and his family built their "empire" on the backs of coal miners. His son and daughter each have very lucrative positions. He is rightfully dubbed "Manchinema" at this point.
Morning JR…
Pence was under unbelievable pressure. I believe from reporting that it was his conversation with Dan Quail (an perhaps other convos like it) that pulled him back to reason from the precipice of treason.
Why didn't Fan Quail call the FBI???
Good ol’ boy club no-no.
And we know why donald didn't march with them or arrive once they were in control of the rooms....he couldn't be a physical part of the delay - just the trigger. I always wondered if the insurgents felt used once their dear leader failed to show up. I'm sure they thought he would match into the theater and take charge. Everyone seemed to be waiting for what to do next...because THEY had no plan for post takeover. Fortunately Pence did not have Steve Bannon's lust for attention or Meadow's anbition. Imagine if the Republicans had thought up a loophole where they could have replaced Pence! Now if Pence had gone to the FBI would he be a hero? Well he didn't. So he is just a coward to his cause and he was part of the coup even though he wasn't willing to sacrifice himself in battle.
No, they are proud to go to jail for their savior Trump.
A number of them said they assumed he was at the front or walking along with him - remember it was a big crowd and they didn't expect to necessarily be able to see him just because he was down somewhere at the far side of the group walking... as if.
From what I remember the Vice President refused to abandon the Capitol on Jan 6. And you have to wonder at what point did he first learn that the mob was chanting “Hang Mike Pence.”
Also don’t forget the aides who grabbed the ballots as they were being rushed off the floor that day. Had the ballots been destroyed or stolen then the certification process could have been halted and delayed.
Maybe he knew it was all theater? We will never know for sure:) That is the art of Mike Pence.
It was not all theatre. Trump attempted to overthrow the legitimately elected President. What happened was not reality TV.
It was reality.
We were talking about Pence and them running around saying hang him. not the insurrection
I think, had the Capitol Police not spirited Pence away safely, that Pence would have been hung or gravely injured.
I do not think that it was all harmless reality TV.
I do think Pence would be dead the rioters had found him.
I agree. It was an attack in which people were injured and killed. It was the real thing.
Yeah but I wonder how many of the people storming the Capitol may have thought that it was real.
I assume all but the proud boys and they would have run the hanging....which they would not have done to Pence. He might have gone to the stocks. I was never worried for him. I was worried for Nancy Pelosi and the non white Democrats.
No doubt he was calm as a cucumber when he came out of the chamber and they took him down the stairs. He didn't look look worried at all.
Graham is a sneaking snake, but this once, he may have done the right thing. Heather wrote that Graham, in his role as head of the Judiciary Committee, demanded "proof" that the election was stolen when the plan to overturn the election was revealed to him and others on January 2nd. Granted, it's not much, but his impersonation of a "speed bump" may have slowed things down.
It slowed nothing...it was verbal CYA for the record. He was totally on board. The key statement in this is...they all knew donald's plan and not one of the. Went to the FBI... Not even the head of the judicial committee went to the FBI! What is the legal aspects of knowing an overthrow of the US Government is being planned and the people that took an oath to uphold the constitution violated their oath? Wasn't it their job to stop the would be tyrant? Holy cow...anyone that had the memo and discussed which was the best approach to implementing the insurrection should be put on trial. At least half of the Republican house and Senate should be impeached. Then while their seats are hot but empty....pass the effing voting rights bills.
Impersonation of a "speed bump"! Thanks, a laugh with my first coffee.