Jl, as Judge Merchan ominously said, "The threat is very real." Indeed. Trump is beyond pathetic, and I think you have it backwards: it's he who makes his enablers dangerous. His leash must be shortened.
It works both ways, doesn't it? The "GOP" has been stitching this monster together for decades, and even as it breaks it's tether, few of them will renounce it, even as it tears at the core of "The American Experiment".
The addiction to the pull of sociopathic unaccountable power is too strong. That attachment to unbalanced power is likely as old as our species, and is evident in the original sins of native genocide and black slavery, but even in my lifetime has been evident swirling around our society, including it's more salient forms as Jim Crow, McCarthyism, and repression and abuse of women and gays.
It became a more widely organized form of crime under the Powell Memo, the "GOP" embrace of fanatic racists cast off by the Dems, and the lies and "dirty tricks" of Nixon and Reagan. It's gerrymandering, it's the GOP thumbing their nose at justified impeachment, toadies placed in SCOTUS (even preceding TFFG), it's calling insurrectionists heroes and hostages, and a fair and free election fake, it's protecting and advancing the whims of the criminal rich, etc., etc., etc.
Trump could wake up dead tomorrow from one too many Big Macs, and that wave of corruption would still be threatening democracy; the new BOSS quite possibly as bad or worse than the last. Look at their primaries. Only the worst need apply.
Are you saying jailing him like any of us would of been sitting in jail for the last 3 years? If not, I did and am flabbergasted that the supposedly law and order/family values have not ousted him from their party along with the so called Christians.
Julie, family values only apply to controlling women and indoctrinating children. Law and order is for people they don't like such as migrants and the houseless.. The "Christians" who support him have no idea of what Jesus taught. They would crucify Christ again if he showed up; that is, if they would let him into the country.
And assassinate Lincoln. The press and the public have yet to acknowledge how Orwellian so-called "Republicans" have become, starting with their contempt for a functioning republic. Trump called himself "your law and order president". If you think about it, virtually everything they say is the exact opposite of what they do.
We should wonder what would it take, in our putative classless society, to treat a former President the same way the rest of us would surely be treated if we were causing trouble in our neighborhood, not to mention trying to wreck our nation?
Surely he is getting away with it because of the fear of violence he has been trying to instill in us. About two weeks ago he said something like "If I don't get elected there will be a bloodbath...that will be the least of it..." He is queuing up violence in the streets for election day and beyond. A reasonable citizen would surely conclude that such speech is a credible threat, and therefore should not be tolerated. His bail should be revoked, and he should be restrained, and held incommunicado in a secure facility, like Fort Knox, Kentucky, where he could amuse himself by fondling gold bullion.
But not slobber on it. I think we as a society have become sloppy in our thinking about what democratic leadership means. The presidency or other office is not a grant of personal privilege; it is a license to use the powers of the office for their intended purpose within intended boundaries. A financial officer is entitled to move company money on a company's behalf. Not to embezzle. A doctor is not responsible if trauma patient dies, so long as he or she acted within due diligence.
Behaviors that are inconsistent with the job description merit NO professional protection. To claim they do is bananas. President's are NOT immune from prosecution of all behavior, otherwise Nixon would have had no need for a pardon. There are governments where those in power immorally enrich themselves, and harass and assassinate those who oppose them. We call them "Tyrannies".
тАЬWe are unique among the worldтАЩs militaries,тАЭ Milley said. тАЬWe donтАЩt take an oath to a country, we donтАЩt take an oath to a tribe, we donтАЩt take an oath to a religion. We donтАЩt take an oath to a king, or a queen, or a tyrant or a dictator.тАЭ
тАЬAnd we donтАЩt take an oath to a wannabe dictator,тАЭ he spat. тАЬWe take an oath to the Constitution and we take an oath to the idea that is America тАУ and weтАЩre willing to die to protect it.тАЭ -CNN
We suspect that the bullies and the people threatening political violence think it would be easy. Their logic and reason fail to persuade us that they have the right idea, so they turn to threats of violence and "bloodbath", hoping we will concede the arguments in favor of democracy.
It is possible to be strong, and courageous, and to be willing to risk our lives to defend the Constitution, yet still wish fervently to live our lives in peace and civility.
I wonder what happened to the 2 candidates who were anti Ukrainian war and were not allowed to run in the election. It is said that one of them said he hoped Putin won. Really?
We suspect he would not actually read a Bible, except perhaps the more lurid parts. He might get interested if we could find a version with the nasty parts illustrated in color.
It would be such a relief, knowing that he could amuse himself, alone in his soundproof padded cell, where no harm could issue from him, and no knowledge or disturbance could reach him from without. Keep the environmental conditions comfortable so there would be no need for clothing, thereby preventing self-harm. Counting down the hits on New Year's Eve in 1969, the #1 hit was "Sugar Sugar" by the Archies -- play that on a continuous loop for his enjoyment. And his illustrated American Bible could be available on a screen with an unbreakable window.
I encounter self-identified Christians whose values are the antithesis of MAGA. I wonder why they seems so silent as a social faction? "Trump" "Christians" are defaming the label for decades to come.
Lauren you are correct; he is dangerous AND pathetic. See, HCR's last paragraph. Many anchors & readers of Judge Merchan's "Decision and Order" missed the important Court findings of fact.
Pay attention to the decisions and the Judge's findings. Judge Merchan recited the Defendant's necessary intent to commit crimes (mens rea). The former president can be charged with those crimes particularly if the worst happens.
Per the Cornell Law School's Legal Information Institute (LLI) when a New York Judge rules on a Motion ( expanding the Gag Order) Judge Merchan does NOT need to state his findings or conclusions. NY Rule 52(a)(3).
But, Judge Merchan DID state his findings of fact & his conclusions. The Defendant has not & will not in my opinion challenge th sufficiency of the Court's evidence.
I agree with Andrew Weissmann; do not wait for the worst. Move forward with a Criminal counts now.
I generally agree with Weismann. I don't know law beyond 30 years fandom of Law and Order, but it's common sense that TFG has inspired violence from the guy stalking Obama, to the one sending anthrax to his hit list, to the guy that shot up the FBI office, to the woman that threatened Chutkan, not to mention Jan 6. That orange fizzie opens his yap and the minions open fire. That repulsive tub o lard is in desperate need of a trachea full of sock, preferably dirty sweaty gym sock. Anyone with the power to turn off the flood of lies, venom, and invective please step up and shut him the f _k up.
That's what I used to tell Jurys,"Listen to all the facts & follow the Law as instructed by this Court" ( then gesture with deference to the Judge and say) " ... follow your Common Sense."
Common sense here is to proceed with the Criminal Trial in 13 days,. Meanwhile convene a Grand Jury & present all evidence including Judge Merchan's findings of fact.
What is scary is the drastic increase in threats to the judges and their families. Something like 70% of judges have accepted the US Marshal Services' offer of electronic security.
Haters gonna hate. I don't mean to be glib, Karen. My only thought is vote all the R's out of office. Big thumping defeats. Send them back to the minors (there's no hope of ever getting them out of our system completely).
And when they do speak, they say things like Jan 6th being "ordinary citizens engaged in legitimate political discourse" and to reject the evidence of your eyes and of your ears.
Not only "give them the door", but hang one of the worst defeats suffered by any political party. I realize this is a dream at this point, but Trump keeps opening his mouth, pouring out irrational crap. My hope is that voters will finally take notice in the next six months and run from him like the plague.
It's more than a dream because there are hundreds if not thousands of grassroots groups all over the country of folks like me who finally got that there are real actions we can and must take to preserve our democracy - starting with working for Dems to win as many up and down ballot elections as possible. If you don't already have such a group, you can start with the one I belong to markersfordemocracy.org - where I get guidance/tools/connections for writing postcards, making phone calls, knocking on doors etc. It feels so much better than doing nothing - alone!!! Blessings,
Charles, at this point, I wonder how much his handlers are doing. It is clear that on his own, he can't string together coherent sentences. Maybe he is only capable of expressing violent anger at this point.
Yes, because putting him out there is not a good idea as he goes off on some delusional rant. I read Palmer regularly because most times the essays are much better than the MSM. I have defended Palmer here because when people look up the Palmer Report, they find a very biased and untrue article, I think, on Wiki. And Kristen Welker is not up to her job.
Sometimes the headlines are hyperbole. But I especially like the essays by Palmer and Harrington. He has been beating the drum about death star's dementia for some time now. He also has a list of candidates in swing districts where money can make a difference.
Charles, I believe that some dreams come true. I've been dreaming of a landslide for Dems in November, but don't tell anyone - afraid I'll jinx it. ЁЯШЬ
There are die hards that love the irrational crap, but a vast majority that finds it revolting. The fact that nobody can turn off the spigot, including the spewer himself, just means that they do our work for us. They'll proudly show the hog-tied Biden video, and the general public will go "eeeuuuwww" all the way to the ballot boxes.
He has given them lots of chances to see how delusional he is, how unintelligent he is, but they are not recognizing it. Trump will lose the war with his I know everything attitude. When a drug addled Hitler took complete control of the army, he lost..literally sleeping at the wheel in one case. No one wanted to wake him up to give orders. I believe that was in the beginning of the battle of Normandy.
Jen, you're correct. However, remember that every pollster was predicting a "red tsunami," meaning that we'd lose a huge number of House seats and perhaps the Senate as well. That didn't happen, and with even the right being upset about the House dysfunction because of the insanity of their own Freedom Caucus, I believe sanity is attainable. What other option do we have?
The Dobbs decision has kicked in and women are really suffering now. I was impressed with the recent win in Alabama. If we can get and keep Dems in office long enough for the good stuff to kick in and folks see thru all the lies maybe things will make a solid turn for the better. Everyone on deck for 11/24!! ЁЯТЩЁЯМКЁЯЩПЁЯдЮЁЯП╝
Jen, this is one of the reasons we can't get any sensible gun laws. The oligarchs want certain peons well armed while they sit back and watch the fight.
This is exactly what Isaiah Berlin writes about in his essays on Nationalism -- create the massive split between haves and have nots so that the have nots are made desperate and bitter, easily provoked to violence and extremist views begging for the dictators to 'save' them.
I imagine that once the peons do the dirty work and the oligarchs have control they will then take away the guns to avoid being on the wrong side of the barrels.
I can see him as a paranoid megalomaniac as Vikund Quisling was described (except Quisling was better educated and had some semblance of proper order).
Yes, Quisling is the poster child for traitors following the early part of WWII. As evil as he was, I consider him smarter than Trump, and at least a tiny bit more concerned with the rules and protecting some of the people from the worst that Hitler would have done to them. He was bad enough to face a firing squad after being tried and convicted.
Please note it was not even his money with which he paid his bond, some questionable old rich person with ties to Axos which happens to be trump's bank.
Trump would just be pathetic, but his enablers make him dangerous.
Jl, as Judge Merchan ominously said, "The threat is very real." Indeed. Trump is beyond pathetic, and I think you have it backwards: it's he who makes his enablers dangerous. His leash must be shortened.
It works both ways, doesn't it? The "GOP" has been stitching this monster together for decades, and even as it breaks it's tether, few of them will renounce it, even as it tears at the core of "The American Experiment".
The addiction to the pull of sociopathic unaccountable power is too strong. That attachment to unbalanced power is likely as old as our species, and is evident in the original sins of native genocide and black slavery, but even in my lifetime has been evident swirling around our society, including it's more salient forms as Jim Crow, McCarthyism, and repression and abuse of women and gays.
It became a more widely organized form of crime under the Powell Memo, the "GOP" embrace of fanatic racists cast off by the Dems, and the lies and "dirty tricks" of Nixon and Reagan. It's gerrymandering, it's the GOP thumbing their nose at justified impeachment, toadies placed in SCOTUS (even preceding TFFG), it's calling insurrectionists heroes and hostages, and a fair and free election fake, it's protecting and advancing the whims of the criminal rich, etc., etc., etc.
Trump could wake up dead tomorrow from one too many Big Macs, and that wave of corruption would still be threatening democracy; the new BOSS quite possibly as bad or worse than the last. Look at their primaries. Only the worst need apply.
Are you saying jailing him like any of us would of been sitting in jail for the last 3 years? If not, I did and am flabbergasted that the supposedly law and order/family values have not ousted him from their party along with the so called Christians.
Julie, family values only apply to controlling women and indoctrinating children. Law and order is for people they don't like such as migrants and the houseless.. The "Christians" who support him have no idea of what Jesus taught. They would crucify Christ again if he showed up; that is, if they would let him into the country.
And assassinate Lincoln. The press and the public have yet to acknowledge how Orwellian so-called "Republicans" have become, starting with their contempt for a functioning republic. Trump called himself "your law and order president". If you think about it, virtually everything they say is the exact opposite of what they do.
They are hypocrisy on steroids.
He didn't tell us that he meant he is the law.
This action could be (is) encouraged in the God Bless America Bible. Wait, i only dos the Old Testament with the blood baths, plagues, floods, etc.
Julie,
We should wonder what would it take, in our putative classless society, to treat a former President the same way the rest of us would surely be treated if we were causing trouble in our neighborhood, not to mention trying to wreck our nation?
Surely he is getting away with it because of the fear of violence he has been trying to instill in us. About two weeks ago he said something like "If I don't get elected there will be a bloodbath...that will be the least of it..." He is queuing up violence in the streets for election day and beyond. A reasonable citizen would surely conclude that such speech is a credible threat, and therefore should not be tolerated. His bail should be revoked, and he should be restrained, and held incommunicado in a secure facility, like Fort Knox, Kentucky, where he could amuse himself by fondling gold bullion.
But not slobber on it. I think we as a society have become sloppy in our thinking about what democratic leadership means. The presidency or other office is not a grant of personal privilege; it is a license to use the powers of the office for their intended purpose within intended boundaries. A financial officer is entitled to move company money on a company's behalf. Not to embezzle. A doctor is not responsible if trauma patient dies, so long as he or she acted within due diligence.
Behaviors that are inconsistent with the job description merit NO professional protection. To claim they do is bananas. President's are NOT immune from prosecution of all behavior, otherwise Nixon would have had no need for a pardon. There are governments where those in power immorally enrich themselves, and harass and assassinate those who oppose them. We call them "Tyrannies".
тАЬWe are unique among the worldтАЩs militaries,тАЭ Milley said. тАЬWe donтАЩt take an oath to a country, we donтАЩt take an oath to a tribe, we donтАЩt take an oath to a religion. We donтАЩt take an oath to a king, or a queen, or a tyrant or a dictator.тАЭ
тАЬAnd we donтАЩt take an oath to a wannabe dictator,тАЭ he spat. тАЬWe take an oath to the Constitution and we take an oath to the idea that is America тАУ and weтАЩre willing to die to protect it.тАЭ -CNN
Revised:
We suspect that the bullies and the people threatening political violence think it would be easy. Their logic and reason fail to persuade us that they have the right idea, so they turn to threats of violence and "bloodbath", hoping we will concede the arguments in favor of democracy.
It is possible to be strong, and courageous, and to be willing to risk our lives to defend the Constitution, yet still wish fervently to live our lives in peace and civility.
I wonder what happened to the 2 candidates who were anti Ukrainian war and were not allowed to run in the election. It is said that one of them said he hoped Putin won. Really?
Edit: Looking for humor in a humorless situation.
Agreed completely and for the life of me can't figured out why he wasn't jailed two plus years ago.
I like that, fondling gold bullion. Would they let him read one of his many Bibles he has at home?
We suspect he would not actually read a Bible, except perhaps the more lurid parts. He might get interested if we could find a version with the nasty parts illustrated in color.
Lots of begetting going on in one of the Old Testament book. Numbers? maybe? The picture of Eve hidden behind a bush might do it,
I like the idea of giving him a picture of Eve 'au naturale' in his solitary confinement cell. That should keep him busy.
pant, pant. I won't go further with that. This is a respectable site. :)
It would be such a relief, knowing that he could amuse himself, alone in his soundproof padded cell, where no harm could issue from him, and no knowledge or disturbance could reach him from without. Keep the environmental conditions comfortable so there would be no need for clothing, thereby preventing self-harm. Counting down the hits on New Year's Eve in 1969, the #1 hit was "Sugar Sugar" by the Archies -- play that on a continuous loop for his enjoyment. And his illustrated American Bible could be available on a screen with an unbreakable window.
I encounter self-identified Christians whose values are the antithesis of MAGA. I wonder why they seems so silent as a social faction? "Trump" "Christians" are defaming the label for decades to come.
The collar attached to the leash needs to be like the one on a vicious dog (that he is). Maybe that would shut him up with a few yanks!
A pinch collar -- yes!
This particular cur needs to stay in a very secure crate.
Oh, let's be generous J L - he's pathetic AND dangerous.
Lauren you are correct; he is dangerous AND pathetic. See, HCR's last paragraph. Many anchors & readers of Judge Merchan's "Decision and Order" missed the important Court findings of fact.
Pay attention to the decisions and the Judge's findings. Judge Merchan recited the Defendant's necessary intent to commit crimes (mens rea). The former president can be charged with those crimes particularly if the worst happens.
Per the Cornell Law School's Legal Information Institute (LLI) when a New York Judge rules on a Motion ( expanding the Gag Order) Judge Merchan does NOT need to state his findings or conclusions. NY Rule 52(a)(3).
But, Judge Merchan DID state his findings of fact & his conclusions. The Defendant has not & will not in my opinion challenge th sufficiency of the Court's evidence.
I agree with Andrew Weissmann; do not wait for the worst. Move forward with a Criminal counts now.
I generally agree with Weismann. I don't know law beyond 30 years fandom of Law and Order, but it's common sense that TFG has inspired violence from the guy stalking Obama, to the one sending anthrax to his hit list, to the guy that shot up the FBI office, to the woman that threatened Chutkan, not to mention Jan 6. That orange fizzie opens his yap and the minions open fire. That repulsive tub o lard is in desperate need of a trachea full of sock, preferably dirty sweaty gym sock. Anyone with the power to turn off the flood of lies, venom, and invective please step up and shut him the f _k up.
That's what I used to tell Jurys,"Listen to all the facts & follow the Law as instructed by this Court" ( then gesture with deference to the Judge and say) " ... follow your Common Sense."
Common sense here is to proceed with the Criminal Trial in 13 days,. Meanwhile convene a Grand Jury & present all evidence including Judge Merchan's findings of fact.
What is scary is the drastic increase in threats to the judges and their families. Something like 70% of judges have accepted the US Marshal Services' offer of electronic security.
Haters gonna hate. I don't mean to be glib, Karen. My only thought is vote all the R's out of office. Big thumping defeats. Send them back to the minors (there's no hope of ever getting them out of our system completely).
Bingo!
Graham. No trump is dangerous and his enablers are pathetic.
Both are both, but yes in general.
Yes Tom. The silence of the republicans since he came down that escalator has been deafening.
And when they do speak, they say things like Jan 6th being "ordinary citizens engaged in legitimate political discourse" and to reject the evidence of your eyes and of your ears.
And they have automatic weapons he urges to turns on " the woke libs".
I don't see a way out of this.
Jen, I see a way out - show him and his gang of thieves the door in November! We absolutely must win this time, or our democracy is finished.
Not only "give them the door", but hang one of the worst defeats suffered by any political party. I realize this is a dream at this point, but Trump keeps opening his mouth, pouring out irrational crap. My hope is that voters will finally take notice in the next six months and run from him like the plague.
It's more than a dream because there are hundreds if not thousands of grassroots groups all over the country of folks like me who finally got that there are real actions we can and must take to preserve our democracy - starting with working for Dems to win as many up and down ballot elections as possible. If you don't already have such a group, you can start with the one I belong to markersfordemocracy.org - where I get guidance/tools/connections for writing postcards, making phone calls, knocking on doors etc. It feels so much better than doing nothing - alone!!! Blessings,
Thank you Terry, and ЁЯЩПЁЯП╝ for that link.
My pleasure! I love the community and love to tell folks about us!
Charles, at this point, I wonder how much his handlers are doing. It is clear that on his own, he can't string together coherent sentences. Maybe he is only capable of expressing violent anger at this point.
Yes, because putting him out there is not a good idea as he goes off on some delusional rant. I read Palmer regularly because most times the essays are much better than the MSM. I have defended Palmer here because when people look up the Palmer Report, they find a very biased and untrue article, I think, on Wiki. And Kristen Welker is not up to her job.
Sometimes the headlines are hyperbole. But I especially like the essays by Palmer and Harrington. He has been beating the drum about death star's dementia for some time now. He also has a list of candidates in swing districts where money can make a difference.
Charles, I believe that some dreams come true. I've been dreaming of a landslide for Dems in November, but don't tell anyone - afraid I'll jinx it. ЁЯШЬ
There are die hards that love the irrational crap, but a vast majority that finds it revolting. The fact that nobody can turn off the spigot, including the spewer himself, just means that they do our work for us. They'll proudly show the hog-tied Biden video, and the general public will go "eeeuuuwww" all the way to the ballot boxes.
He has given them lots of chances to see how delusional he is, how unintelligent he is, but they are not recognizing it. Trump will lose the war with his I know everything attitude. When a drug addled Hitler took complete control of the army, he lost..literally sleeping at the wheel in one case. No one wanted to wake him up to give orders. I believe that was in the beginning of the battle of Normandy.
We did in 2020 and we got a Republican House in 2022. We've been down this road, as Dr Richardson describes, so often.
Jen, you're correct. However, remember that every pollster was predicting a "red tsunami," meaning that we'd lose a huge number of House seats and perhaps the Senate as well. That didn't happen, and with even the right being upset about the House dysfunction because of the insanity of their own Freedom Caucus, I believe sanity is attainable. What other option do we have?
The other options are unthinkable.
The Dobbs decision has kicked in and women are really suffering now. I was impressed with the recent win in Alabama. If we can get and keep Dems in office long enough for the good stuff to kick in and folks see thru all the lies maybe things will make a solid turn for the better. Everyone on deck for 11/24!! ЁЯТЩЁЯМКЁЯЩПЁЯдЮЁЯП╝
Jen, this is one of the reasons we can't get any sensible gun laws. The oligarchs want certain peons well armed while they sit back and watch the fight.
This is exactly what Isaiah Berlin writes about in his essays on Nationalism -- create the massive split between haves and have nots so that the have nots are made desperate and bitter, easily provoked to violence and extremist views begging for the dictators to 'save' them.
I imagine that once the peons do the dirty work and the oligarchs have control they will then take away the guns to avoid being on the wrong side of the barrels.
I am not sure they have thought beyond power and money.
Exactly
I can see him as a paranoid megalomaniac as Vikund Quisling was described (except Quisling was better educated and had some semblance of proper order).
Wasn't he a traitor?
Yes, Quisling is the poster child for traitors following the early part of WWII. As evil as he was, I consider him smarter than Trump, and at least a tiny bit more concerned with the rules and protecting some of the people from the worst that Hitler would have done to them. He was bad enough to face a firing squad after being tried and convicted.
I agree. Trump's only superpowers are excessive money and shamelessness. Otherwise he is an unstable useful idiot; especially to Putin.
Please note it was not even his money with which he paid his bond, some questionable old rich person with ties to Axos which happens to be trump's bank.
And there are a lot of them!