Why just “dip”? He is a member of Opus Dei as is Cippolone. Their goal is to create a theocracy. I have read Barr’s thoughts on the society we live in vs the one he thinks we should all live in. Taliban of America.
Why just “dip”? He is a member of Opus Dei as is Cippolone. Their goal is to create a theocracy. I have read Barr’s thoughts on the society we live in vs the one he thinks we should all live in. Taliban of America.
Dianna, they don’t care what God you follow. “Their” god hates homosexuality, a woman’s right to control her own body, how many children we give birth to, what our role in society is, etc. They think MEN are GODS in certain cases: their cases. Barr is a really warped guy. He is desperate, as are they all now, of getting prosecuted for their role, in service to 45, to overthrow the US Government as we know it. Just that dire, in my opinion.
Barr Nun should be disbarred. He is an arrogant blowhard who threw Americans under the bus by stopping Mueller’s investigation. He too, must be charged with obstructing justice.
Marlene, you got that right. An AG who obstructs justice????? He has a long history of obstructing justice. He is a dangerous man. Do not underestimate these people. They are Evil Incarnate. They are intent on controlling all of “US” The People. They do not think they will die or else they are intent on making their philosophy the Rule after they die. We must not allow this to happen. The Founders knew what they were doing…..
We can only hope they will be held accountable. That unitary executive theory is bulls$?. That stupid idea is diametrically opposite of what the founders had in mind. They did not want someone with unlimited kingly powers. They fought a war to free themselves from a king. Also forget the the stupid originalism idea. These ideas are just crap that the far right keeps throwing at the wall hoping something sticks, trying to increase their power.
Last night I watched the old film, Elizabeth The Golden Age (my small homage to QEII,) Although the film was visually lovely, with Cate Blanchett as the first Queen Elizabeth, I was struck by the Catholic cabal to remove her, by death if necessary. It's an old theme, and it angered me.
In the same manner of Pres Biden differentiating MAGA Republicans from the mainstream Republicans I differentiate mainstream Catholics from the current cabal, Opus Dei, which is working behind the scenes to have its way. Democracy be damned. Religious freedom be damned.
The audacity of OD's self-righteousness and certitude that women's lives are fodder, or at best secondary to men, is as old as the church itself.
BTW, apparently, after a failed coup to kill her, Elizabeth reinvented herself as The Virgin Queen because she and most Europeans revered the Virgin Mary as the epitome of womanhood, not that she was unmarried as I had always thought. So the film indicated...
The cabal to kill the Queen originated in Spain. So did Opus Dei.
Thank you, Hope. I read all the Ken Follett novels about the building of Cathedrals in medieval England. I learned an amazing amount of history. He describes the intrigues in the Catholic Church, the role of Elizabeth I in changing the Church and so many details of that time. I agree with everything you said. It is still a cabal, in modern day America. Ain’t that the tits?
First, let me repeat your distinction between mainstream Catholics and the various cabals that have blossomed in the dark corners of the Church. They are not the same.
I think the Church has, from its inception (or certainly since the Council of Nicaea kind of nailed down the edges) been a unique combination of religious zeal and raw hunger for power, both inside the institution and in the world. And where the religion was held with great fervor, it turned rancid; and where the struggle for power became the guiding force, corruption followed. Money, Power, and God do not make for smooth sailing. In spite of my years of good experience with the Catholic Church (I am not Catholic) and in spite of the almost uniformly fine Catholic friends I have, as just a few off those dark corners are exposed, I shudder. If the power and wealth of pockets of corrupted and religion-mad members of that seat of Christianity throw in their lot with the Bill Barrs and others like him, we are in more trouble than we know.
The Federalists are who aligned with the White Nationalist Agenda as far as I can see. In any case, the Judge Aileen Cannon is a member of the Federalist Society too. Coincidence? I think not! These people should be disbarred. They are not capable of being judges because they are bringing strong conservative beliefs to the job, not impartiality.
Yes. Barr is what's called a Domionist--he believes the United States should be under the dominion of Christianity. And I think there are more of the SCOTUS justices who belong to OpusDei and almost all Trump's appointees belong to the Federalist Society. I find this all pretty scary
I read Bill Barr’s own words in a long article in The NY Times not long ago. Please don’t make me fish it out from the internet. He is really a bad dude, Dan. I am not inventing this. Opus Dei is also a really, really evil organization, documented. Cipollone is a devout Catholic, is an Opus Dei member and has ten children to prove his devotion to the Church. There are dark forces at work. The Church has always played a role in dark politics, esp its collaboration to silence progressive nuns and priests in the underground against Mussolini and Hitler. 45 is not Catholic and Opus Dei is another “club” he has not gained admittance to. So he uses the KKK types to do his bidding. OMG.
Thank you, Elizabeth, for being careful not to collapse the entire Catholic Church of today into one of its so- called prelatures- Opus Dei. Or to tar all large families ( I am oldest if 14) as " proving devotion to the church"- not the only reason to have a large family-- my mother, critical thinker and anti clericalist, is rolling in her grave!!!
Having said all this I share your concern about the ultra-right, anti- Francis, church/state boundary -erasing, ultra partisan and self- serving twisting of an impulse to be a " godly worker" which some Opus Dei members seem to have. As with all things divisive, their " work" seems mostly to serve their own ambition, not the common good and surely not the sacred, whatever name they put on their pretzeled idea of the transcendent. Thank you.
Hi Carol, I almost joined the Liberation Theology movement in Nicaragua in 1980’s and considered becoming Catholic. My father was raised Catholic and mother was Jewish, sectarian. I went to mass regularly growing up with Irish Grandma Alice, one of 17 and who had 7 kids herself. My Jewish Great grandmother from Poland had 17 children. She was an Orthodox Jew and did believe all that stuff about devotion through her children. Or else she was a slave to the tradition of the late 19th century. I was venting a bit about Cipollone, who makes me sick politically. I followed Doris Day, the Berrigans and loved all the people like them. I love Pope Francis. Sorry if I said anything to offend. Just writing fast and thinking out loud. We want the sacred to be with us in our private lives and the common good to be in our public lives. I love your phrase: “their pretzeled idea of the transcendent.” Nice to meet you.
Hi Elisabeth, I was in Nicaragua in the '80s with Witness for Peace. I loved the Liberation Theology movement! I joined a Mass with the sweet villagers and Religious folks...nuns and a priest, given in honor of Mothers of the Disappeared (a movement throughout Latin America to search for missing youth whom right wing pols were kidnapping and killing.) To my ever grateful surprise I was called up with the mothers. My two sons were abducted by their father and lost to me for 26 years.
What a story! I got chills reading your comment. I went to Nicaragua twice in the 80’s to bring medical journals and electrical equipment in building a cancer hospital for women. We helped with funding and things they couldn’t get there because of the many years of war. The hospital is still functioning from what we can tell. Of course, Daniel Ortega is a complete disaster. Thanks for telling me about your experience. Incredible!
No offense, Elizabeth. I was complimenting you on your acknowledgement of " the rest of the church" ( the radical nuns and priests you knew). We Catholics, God knows, are not perfect but some of our tribe are exemplary. You mention Dorothy Day from our own era. There are so many other courageous and gutsy women in the Catholic tradition of saints who long before the women's movements were our " dangerous memories" of creative female sabateurs, who, in many cases, took on even cowardly and hyper partisan Popes and Bishops who tried so hard to control them. Often called hysterical in their own times but later recognized as holy by later, more discerning leaders.
You have a fascinating family story yourself. What a beautiful coming together of diverse traditions and experiences in your one person.Glad you are here. You are a good example of the fabulous people HCR draws to her campfire!! Thank you again and no apology needed!!!
Carol, I think we might be kindred spirits. I married an Indian Hindu Brahman in 1994 and started my adventure with spirituality and cultural immersion in India. I was in my early 40’s and have learned a lifetime of lessons and history of this vast subcontinent since then. I live in India now probably until I go to wherever we go at the end. I find this group so invigorating and love that Heather has gathered us us to her “campfire”. You sound like one of the “fabulous people”!
This gathering of kindred spirits has been a centering place in a spinning world for me these past few years. I am most grateful. May your inward journey continue to be full of surprises and joy til we go " wherever we go at the end"....( yet another adventure, I hope).
I can imagine a terrible power behind “Faith Based” judicial appointments that knits together the Great Schizm in The Roman Church that was brought about by factors of mercantile classes and Kings against Popes. The two faiths are now riding on the fuel of Fundamentalism : money in the hands of White Men. It’s a closed loop- the more money for a few, the more stricture in the social sphere.
Religious non Catholic Fundamentalists believe in Country as ordained by a Protestant God ; The Calvinistic interpretation of both biblical and Constitutional texts .
Opus Dei Fundamentalist Catholics primary occupation is its ancient war against women. Re-establishing a God As Man dominance in social structure, and seeding adherents in the judiciary aims to control power .
Both benefit from Originalist rulings.
The power behind both, is money in the pockets of white men. I feel it will be a power usurped by the rise of a corporate that is representative in both gender and race, of the population. The law of Entropy will destroy that closed loop, be it with the demise of the fuel : money or belief, or both.
Ultimately, Business wants stability. Social Democracy in an elected Republic will triumph with the buying power of all Americans, and the evidence of a just government under The Bill Of Rights.
It’s something cosmic, sorta- the two religious views melding finally, in the Crucible of our land. It’s all been money , after all, for organized earthly bound “faith.”
Elisabeth As a Foreign Service Officer in Chile I had some contact with Opus Dei--fine if you favor the 16th century Catholic Church. Perhaps I prefer ecumenical Christianity (as well as other religions) and no more Inquisitions. I believe that this is touched on in Dan Brown's (name?) books and movies.
I think you are quite correct that Trump used the Catholic radicals as he used Protestant Christian Nationalists, not because he shared any of their beliefs, but because they enhanced his electoral chances and hence access to office and power. For their own purposes the dominionists backed Trump because he assisted gaining judicial control, seeking governmental power over favored social and cultural issues--again, not because he shared their beliefs.
I'm not sure which NYT article you were thinking of, but it may well have referenced Barr's 2019 speech at Notre Dame:
And, if that's not enough to drive you to drink, we have Alito's "religious liberty" address, celebrating and smirking after Dobbs, and hoping for further conquests:
Thank you, Tom. I’ll have a look. It all drives me to drink, and cry and worry about our future. If church and state were REALLY separate, the way they are SUPPOSED to be, none of this would exist. How dare “they” tell “us” what to believe, how to believe, who to pray to, to pray at all! Oh dear…..
I saw a video of Alito laughing about the Roe v Wade overturn. What a craven Kraken of a man. Ginni Thomas and her hubbie also. Krakens, whatever the hell that is….
I think the powerful find Theocracy to be useful to their goal of dismantling what's left of our democracy to achieve a purer, in every evil way, Kleptocracy.
Why just “dip”? He is a member of Opus Dei as is Cippolone. Their goal is to create a theocracy. I have read Barr’s thoughts on the society we live in vs the one he thinks we should all live in. Taliban of America.
I don’t believe they want a theocracy unless it includes installing themselves as gods. They damn sure don’t follow any god I’m familiar with.
Dianna, they don’t care what God you follow. “Their” god hates homosexuality, a woman’s right to control her own body, how many children we give birth to, what our role in society is, etc. They think MEN are GODS in certain cases: their cases. Barr is a really warped guy. He is desperate, as are they all now, of getting prosecuted for their role, in service to 45, to overthrow the US Government as we know it. Just that dire, in my opinion.
Barr Nun should be disbarred. He is an arrogant blowhard who threw Americans under the bus by stopping Mueller’s investigation. He too, must be charged with obstructing justice.
Marlene, you got that right. An AG who obstructs justice????? He has a long history of obstructing justice. He is a dangerous man. Do not underestimate these people. They are Evil Incarnate. They are intent on controlling all of “US” The People. They do not think they will die or else they are intent on making their philosophy the Rule after they die. We must not allow this to happen. The Founders knew what they were doing…..
We can only hope they will be held accountable. That unitary executive theory is bulls$?. That stupid idea is diametrically opposite of what the founders had in mind. They did not want someone with unlimited kingly powers. They fought a war to free themselves from a king. Also forget the the stupid originalism idea. These ideas are just crap that the far right keeps throwing at the wall hoping something sticks, trying to increase their power.
Draconian. The only word that comes to mind. Total bs. You are right.
It helps to wear amulets of garlic around them and carry silver bullets.
Last night I watched the old film, Elizabeth The Golden Age (my small homage to QEII,) Although the film was visually lovely, with Cate Blanchett as the first Queen Elizabeth, I was struck by the Catholic cabal to remove her, by death if necessary. It's an old theme, and it angered me.
In the same manner of Pres Biden differentiating MAGA Republicans from the mainstream Republicans I differentiate mainstream Catholics from the current cabal, Opus Dei, which is working behind the scenes to have its way. Democracy be damned. Religious freedom be damned.
The audacity of OD's self-righteousness and certitude that women's lives are fodder, or at best secondary to men, is as old as the church itself.
BTW, apparently, after a failed coup to kill her, Elizabeth reinvented herself as The Virgin Queen because she and most Europeans revered the Virgin Mary as the epitome of womanhood, not that she was unmarried as I had always thought. So the film indicated...
The cabal to kill the Queen originated in Spain. So did Opus Dei.
Thank you, Hope. I read all the Ken Follett novels about the building of Cathedrals in medieval England. I learned an amazing amount of history. He describes the intrigues in the Catholic Church, the role of Elizabeth I in changing the Church and so many details of that time. I agree with everything you said. It is still a cabal, in modern day America. Ain’t that the tits?
And aren't those just the most delicious novels?
First, let me repeat your distinction between mainstream Catholics and the various cabals that have blossomed in the dark corners of the Church. They are not the same.
I think the Church has, from its inception (or certainly since the Council of Nicaea kind of nailed down the edges) been a unique combination of religious zeal and raw hunger for power, both inside the institution and in the world. And where the religion was held with great fervor, it turned rancid; and where the struggle for power became the guiding force, corruption followed. Money, Power, and God do not make for smooth sailing. In spite of my years of good experience with the Catholic Church (I am not Catholic) and in spite of the almost uniformly fine Catholic friends I have, as just a few off those dark corners are exposed, I shudder. If the power and wealth of pockets of corrupted and religion-mad members of that seat of Christianity throw in their lot with the Bill Barrs and others like him, we are in more trouble than we know.
The White Nationalist God! https://churchandstate.org.uk/2019/06/opus-deis-influence-is-felt-in-all-of-washingtons-corridors-of-power/
The Federalists are who aligned with the White Nationalist Agenda as far as I can see. In any case, the Judge Aileen Cannon is a member of the Federalist Society too. Coincidence? I think not! These people should be disbarred. They are not capable of being judges because they are bringing strong conservative beliefs to the job, not impartiality.
Yes. Barr is what's called a Domionist--he believes the United States should be under the dominion of Christianity. And I think there are more of the SCOTUS justices who belong to OpusDei and almost all Trump's appointees belong to the Federalist Society. I find this all pretty scary
Ditto!!
Honestly Liz, I don't buy that (theocracy) as any real underlying goal of these con men and tools. In fact, I'm nearly certain of that.
I read Bill Barr’s own words in a long article in The NY Times not long ago. Please don’t make me fish it out from the internet. He is really a bad dude, Dan. I am not inventing this. Opus Dei is also a really, really evil organization, documented. Cipollone is a devout Catholic, is an Opus Dei member and has ten children to prove his devotion to the Church. There are dark forces at work. The Church has always played a role in dark politics, esp its collaboration to silence progressive nuns and priests in the underground against Mussolini and Hitler. 45 is not Catholic and Opus Dei is another “club” he has not gained admittance to. So he uses the KKK types to do his bidding. OMG.
Thank you, Elizabeth, for being careful not to collapse the entire Catholic Church of today into one of its so- called prelatures- Opus Dei. Or to tar all large families ( I am oldest if 14) as " proving devotion to the church"- not the only reason to have a large family-- my mother, critical thinker and anti clericalist, is rolling in her grave!!!
Having said all this I share your concern about the ultra-right, anti- Francis, church/state boundary -erasing, ultra partisan and self- serving twisting of an impulse to be a " godly worker" which some Opus Dei members seem to have. As with all things divisive, their " work" seems mostly to serve their own ambition, not the common good and surely not the sacred, whatever name they put on their pretzeled idea of the transcendent. Thank you.
Hi Carol, I almost joined the Liberation Theology movement in Nicaragua in 1980’s and considered becoming Catholic. My father was raised Catholic and mother was Jewish, sectarian. I went to mass regularly growing up with Irish Grandma Alice, one of 17 and who had 7 kids herself. My Jewish Great grandmother from Poland had 17 children. She was an Orthodox Jew and did believe all that stuff about devotion through her children. Or else she was a slave to the tradition of the late 19th century. I was venting a bit about Cipollone, who makes me sick politically. I followed Doris Day, the Berrigans and loved all the people like them. I love Pope Francis. Sorry if I said anything to offend. Just writing fast and thinking out loud. We want the sacred to be with us in our private lives and the common good to be in our public lives. I love your phrase: “their pretzeled idea of the transcendent.” Nice to meet you.
Hi Elisabeth, I was in Nicaragua in the '80s with Witness for Peace. I loved the Liberation Theology movement! I joined a Mass with the sweet villagers and Religious folks...nuns and a priest, given in honor of Mothers of the Disappeared (a movement throughout Latin America to search for missing youth whom right wing pols were kidnapping and killing.) To my ever grateful surprise I was called up with the mothers. My two sons were abducted by their father and lost to me for 26 years.
What a story! I got chills reading your comment. I went to Nicaragua twice in the 80’s to bring medical journals and electrical equipment in building a cancer hospital for women. We helped with funding and things they couldn’t get there because of the many years of war. The hospital is still functioning from what we can tell. Of course, Daniel Ortega is a complete disaster. Thanks for telling me about your experience. Incredible!
Sigh, whatever went wrong with Daniel Ortega? Left or Right, hubris can infect anyone.
No offense, Elizabeth. I was complimenting you on your acknowledgement of " the rest of the church" ( the radical nuns and priests you knew). We Catholics, God knows, are not perfect but some of our tribe are exemplary. You mention Dorothy Day from our own era. There are so many other courageous and gutsy women in the Catholic tradition of saints who long before the women's movements were our " dangerous memories" of creative female sabateurs, who, in many cases, took on even cowardly and hyper partisan Popes and Bishops who tried so hard to control them. Often called hysterical in their own times but later recognized as holy by later, more discerning leaders.
You have a fascinating family story yourself. What a beautiful coming together of diverse traditions and experiences in your one person.Glad you are here. You are a good example of the fabulous people HCR draws to her campfire!! Thank you again and no apology needed!!!
Carol, I think we might be kindred spirits. I married an Indian Hindu Brahman in 1994 and started my adventure with spirituality and cultural immersion in India. I was in my early 40’s and have learned a lifetime of lessons and history of this vast subcontinent since then. I live in India now probably until I go to wherever we go at the end. I find this group so invigorating and love that Heather has gathered us us to her “campfire”. You sound like one of the “fabulous people”!
This gathering of kindred spirits has been a centering place in a spinning world for me these past few years. I am most grateful. May your inward journey continue to be full of surprises and joy til we go " wherever we go at the end"....( yet another adventure, I hope).
Yes, everything is an adventure….
I can imagine a terrible power behind “Faith Based” judicial appointments that knits together the Great Schizm in The Roman Church that was brought about by factors of mercantile classes and Kings against Popes. The two faiths are now riding on the fuel of Fundamentalism : money in the hands of White Men. It’s a closed loop- the more money for a few, the more stricture in the social sphere.
Religious non Catholic Fundamentalists believe in Country as ordained by a Protestant God ; The Calvinistic interpretation of both biblical and Constitutional texts .
Opus Dei Fundamentalist Catholics primary occupation is its ancient war against women. Re-establishing a God As Man dominance in social structure, and seeding adherents in the judiciary aims to control power .
Both benefit from Originalist rulings.
The power behind both, is money in the pockets of white men. I feel it will be a power usurped by the rise of a corporate that is representative in both gender and race, of the population. The law of Entropy will destroy that closed loop, be it with the demise of the fuel : money or belief, or both.
Ultimately, Business wants stability. Social Democracy in an elected Republic will triumph with the buying power of all Americans, and the evidence of a just government under The Bill Of Rights.
Wow. Just wow, Mary.
It’s something cosmic, sorta- the two religious views melding finally, in the Crucible of our land. It’s all been money , after all, for organized earthly bound “faith.”
Elisabeth As a Foreign Service Officer in Chile I had some contact with Opus Dei--fine if you favor the 16th century Catholic Church. Perhaps I prefer ecumenical Christianity (as well as other religions) and no more Inquisitions. I believe that this is touched on in Dan Brown's (name?) books and movies.
Elizabeth--
I think you are quite correct that Trump used the Catholic radicals as he used Protestant Christian Nationalists, not because he shared any of their beliefs, but because they enhanced his electoral chances and hence access to office and power. For their own purposes the dominionists backed Trump because he assisted gaining judicial control, seeking governmental power over favored social and cultural issues--again, not because he shared their beliefs.
I'm not sure which NYT article you were thinking of, but it may well have referenced Barr's 2019 speech at Notre Dame:
https://www.justice.gov/opa/speech/attorney-general-william-p-barr-delivers-remarks-law-school-and-de-nicola-center-ethics
And, if that's not enough to drive you to drink, we have Alito's "religious liberty" address, celebrating and smirking after Dobbs, and hoping for further conquests:
https://www.justice.gov/opa/speech/attorney-general-william-p-barr-delivers-remarks-law-school-and-de-nicola-center-ethics
Thank you, Tom. I’ll have a look. It all drives me to drink, and cry and worry about our future. If church and state were REALLY separate, the way they are SUPPOSED to be, none of this would exist. How dare “they” tell “us” what to believe, how to believe, who to pray to, to pray at all! Oh dear…..
My bad. I flubbed pasting the Alito link and just repeated Barr's. Here's the "religious liberty" address:
https://law.nd.edu/news-events/news/2022-religious-liberty-summit-rome-justice-samuel-alito-keynote/
I saw a video of Alito laughing about the Roe v Wade overturn. What a craven Kraken of a man. Ginni Thomas and her hubbie also. Krakens, whatever the hell that is….
I think the powerful find Theocracy to be useful to their goal of dismantling what's left of our democracy to achieve a purer, in every evil way, Kleptocracy.
It's pretext, not the objective