Frederick, this is great. Thank you! I'm not sure I agree with every part of your diagnosis of the American Left's failings, but you're certainly on to something as to why the right is so successful. I find your comment thought provoking, to say the least, and I hope the rest of HCRs followers take the trouble to read all the way through it. This should be a long and enlightening thread.
Frederick, this is great. Thank you! I'm not sure I agree with every part of your diagnosis of the American Left's failings, but you're certainly on to something as to why the right is so successful. I find your comment thought provoking, to say the least, and I hope the rest of HCRs followers take the trouble to read all the way through it. This should be a long and enlightening thread.
Dont forget conservative biases built into the electoral framework: how the senate is elected, and gerrymandering, as ably presented by Heather. This long list is kind of a blame game dump on progressives, I do agree the Dems tend to take it out on themselves, much more so than the other side. How long have Frederick's issues been a staple of Dem self-blame? I'm sure ive heard some of this stuff 20 years ago, or more... the idea of the self-serving liberal elite rubbing it in on the rest of America. By the same token, Dems represent a broad coalition of ofen minority interests where Republicans are more culturally and ethnically cohesive and what should we call it, patriotic, rally around the flag and the troops. Yet how has that worked out? So, the very same Dems, took back Michigan simply by changing gerrymandered constituency. And, slightly aside, we have an American public which lopsidedly gives lower marks to Dems on economic issues, regardless of how badly Republicans do, mostly a piece of conservative self-serving dogma. And oh yes, shouldnt we look where corporate support goes in such a big way... Koch brothers, just for starters. How is that a Dem fault?
As a Michigander, I was pleased to see HCR's mention of our hard-fought campaign for independent redistricting. Our republican state congress fought us every step of the way, but we prevailed. Thanks to our new, fair congress, we have more fair funding for schools, clean water, and safer roads and bridges. We're working on legislation to protect families from guns owned by abusive family members.
In my several decades of living, the only time I have knocked on doors for a political cause was as part of the effort to end gerrymandering in Michigan. I was so impressed by Katie and what she and others accomplished, and I keep hoping for more states to replicate that successful campaign. "Voters should choose their politicians, not the other way around!"
And i didnt mention how political manipulation of the judiciary has self-advantaged the values and views of GOP and its supporters mostly thanks to Mitch. The impact of political advantage!
I loathe Mitch just as much as I do death star. He is responsible in part for the tilt of the Supreme Court through nonsense reasoning, but he had the power to do what he did. Both Kentucky Senators should have never held political office. Mitch is, or was, a slick operator, but Paul is just a wing nut.
Frank, this rallying around the flag and troops is now so hypocritical. Death star proved that again and again. These are the same people who had no problems attacking police January 6th despite claiming to support police....I think they support the ones who are bad cops actually. My husband has a cousin related through his Lakota ancestry in South Dakota who served in the military and then the Dallas police until she retired. She was once a R and now is a militant D who speaks out against the Gnome whenever possible. That includes attending rallies. As for the true believers in death star, they love him because he speaks to all the prejudices and fears.
Yay for your husband's cousin. It is refreshing to see how some people can shake loose the bounds of conservative thought, especially in the law enforcement milieu.
She has kept track of all the COVID deaths in South Dakota while the Gnome rants about freedom (no masks and vaccine mandates) and chases money all over the country while making her adoration of death star clear. She also does not seem to understand what sovereign nation means as there are several Native American reservations there. His cousin is also a lovely person.
I don't think the ten points were intended to point blame at Democrats and progressives, but rather to make them think deeply about their values and find a frame for those. As to the Republicans being "patriotic and defending the troops", Donald Trump put the lie to that one big time. Actually, Donald Trump's dismissal of the idea of serving your country for any reason other than personal gain really puts the patriotic ball in the Democratic/Progressive court. I love our country. I respect our troops. I honor and support those who have been gravely injured in defending democracy and America. I contribute money to veterans on a monthly basis. I would never sneer at an injured soldier (or anyone else for that matter). Does that make me a Republican? No. I am a decent citizen who abhors war but understands that the country needs to be defended. So in that, I share some core "conservative" beliefs. And I suspect I'm not alone.
Self analysis is not blame. And don't forget, Frank, as long as you bring up biases, the corporate "free press" chooses words in subheadlines that almost always serve business or conservative points of view, This definition of the issue affects the disscussion greatly, as well as action taken. Language is the most important issue in defining reality. This is nothing new and I do not think Frederick is saying so. Chomsky, as a linguist, has been making similar points for many decades.
Fair enough, but a litany of negatives doesnt seem to me to have much balance as what's been positive among progressives. Without them in the first place, the Dems likely wouldn't resemble the party they've become, or accomplished in policy, and likely, electoral success. I did indicate imbalances in the political framework and relatively recent Republican manipulations which were far more likely to have been influential in Dems political shortfalls the past decade plus as opposed to the "self analysis" provided on progressives. More balance was needed.
Pretty much, just a difference in emphasis. I was contra-ing what i thought was an important missing part of the critique. I did seem to get quite a few "I agree" checks.
Boy, I read the entire thing and am very thankful that it was posted here. We all need to understand the use of linguistics more as well as political organization. It is the every day, week in and week out, need to live and name democratic values, that strikes me as important; the understanding of what motivates the republican voter; and the need to cease calling names.
Hey David, I did not stay up late enough last night to pick up on this great comment stream. I have read some of your comments in the past and you do a good job yourself. I could go on and about how words control the process but the points Frederick brings up are on the mark. Lakoff is very clear and a new voice for me. Chomsky held forth on these issues over the past sixty years or more.
I look forward to catching up tonight. Out on the West Coast, Heather posts a bit late.
Frederick, this is great. Thank you! I'm not sure I agree with every part of your diagnosis of the American Left's failings, but you're certainly on to something as to why the right is so successful. I find your comment thought provoking, to say the least, and I hope the rest of HCRs followers take the trouble to read all the way through it. This should be a long and enlightening thread.
Dont forget conservative biases built into the electoral framework: how the senate is elected, and gerrymandering, as ably presented by Heather. This long list is kind of a blame game dump on progressives, I do agree the Dems tend to take it out on themselves, much more so than the other side. How long have Frederick's issues been a staple of Dem self-blame? I'm sure ive heard some of this stuff 20 years ago, or more... the idea of the self-serving liberal elite rubbing it in on the rest of America. By the same token, Dems represent a broad coalition of ofen minority interests where Republicans are more culturally and ethnically cohesive and what should we call it, patriotic, rally around the flag and the troops. Yet how has that worked out? So, the very same Dems, took back Michigan simply by changing gerrymandered constituency. And, slightly aside, we have an American public which lopsidedly gives lower marks to Dems on economic issues, regardless of how badly Republicans do, mostly a piece of conservative self-serving dogma. And oh yes, shouldnt we look where corporate support goes in such a big way... Koch brothers, just for starters. How is that a Dem fault?
As a Michigander, I was pleased to see HCR's mention of our hard-fought campaign for independent redistricting. Our republican state congress fought us every step of the way, but we prevailed. Thanks to our new, fair congress, we have more fair funding for schools, clean water, and safer roads and bridges. We're working on legislation to protect families from guns owned by abusive family members.
In my several decades of living, the only time I have knocked on doors for a political cause was as part of the effort to end gerrymandering in Michigan. I was so impressed by Katie and what she and others accomplished, and I keep hoping for more states to replicate that successful campaign. "Voters should choose their politicians, not the other way around!"
And i didnt mention how political manipulation of the judiciary has self-advantaged the values and views of GOP and its supporters mostly thanks to Mitch. The impact of political advantage!
I loathe Mitch just as much as I do death star. He is responsible in part for the tilt of the Supreme Court through nonsense reasoning, but he had the power to do what he did. Both Kentucky Senators should have never held political office. Mitch is, or was, a slick operator, but Paul is just a wing nut.
I'm so proud of what you have accomplished. It is an inspiration to all of us.
Frank, this rallying around the flag and troops is now so hypocritical. Death star proved that again and again. These are the same people who had no problems attacking police January 6th despite claiming to support police....I think they support the ones who are bad cops actually. My husband has a cousin related through his Lakota ancestry in South Dakota who served in the military and then the Dallas police until she retired. She was once a R and now is a militant D who speaks out against the Gnome whenever possible. That includes attending rallies. As for the true believers in death star, they love him because he speaks to all the prejudices and fears.
Yay for your husband's cousin. It is refreshing to see how some people can shake loose the bounds of conservative thought, especially in the law enforcement milieu.
She has kept track of all the COVID deaths in South Dakota while the Gnome rants about freedom (no masks and vaccine mandates) and chases money all over the country while making her adoration of death star clear. She also does not seem to understand what sovereign nation means as there are several Native American reservations there. His cousin is also a lovely person.
I don't think the ten points were intended to point blame at Democrats and progressives, but rather to make them think deeply about their values and find a frame for those. As to the Republicans being "patriotic and defending the troops", Donald Trump put the lie to that one big time. Actually, Donald Trump's dismissal of the idea of serving your country for any reason other than personal gain really puts the patriotic ball in the Democratic/Progressive court. I love our country. I respect our troops. I honor and support those who have been gravely injured in defending democracy and America. I contribute money to veterans on a monthly basis. I would never sneer at an injured soldier (or anyone else for that matter). Does that make me a Republican? No. I am a decent citizen who abhors war but understands that the country needs to be defended. So in that, I share some core "conservative" beliefs. And I suspect I'm not alone.
I won't pursue my points, but kudos to you for both your loyalty to country and democratic principles.
Self analysis is not blame. And don't forget, Frank, as long as you bring up biases, the corporate "free press" chooses words in subheadlines that almost always serve business or conservative points of view, This definition of the issue affects the disscussion greatly, as well as action taken. Language is the most important issue in defining reality. This is nothing new and I do not think Frederick is saying so. Chomsky, as a linguist, has been making similar points for many decades.
Fair enough, but a litany of negatives doesnt seem to me to have much balance as what's been positive among progressives. Without them in the first place, the Dems likely wouldn't resemble the party they've become, or accomplished in policy, and likely, electoral success. I did indicate imbalances in the political framework and relatively recent Republican manipulations which were far more likely to have been influential in Dems political shortfalls the past decade plus as opposed to the "self analysis" provided on progressives. More balance was needed.
Perhaps we are putting the golf ball around the same hole but it hasn't dropped in.
Pretty much, just a difference in emphasis. I was contra-ing what i thought was an important missing part of the critique. I did seem to get quite a few "I agree" checks.
Concentrate on the practical proposals, not barely secondary grouses.
This IS a long and enlightening thread. Thank you Frederick!
Boy, I read the entire thing and am very thankful that it was posted here. We all need to understand the use of linguistics more as well as political organization. It is the every day, week in and week out, need to live and name democratic values, that strikes me as important; the understanding of what motivates the republican voter; and the need to cease calling names.
Hey David, I did not stay up late enough last night to pick up on this great comment stream. I have read some of your comments in the past and you do a good job yourself. I could go on and about how words control the process but the points Frederick brings up are on the mark. Lakoff is very clear and a new voice for me. Chomsky held forth on these issues over the past sixty years or more.
I look forward to catching up tonight. Out on the West Coast, Heather posts a bit late.
Amen