It is my understanding that the hijab headscarf that Iranian women are burning in protest originated because men couldn't control themselves. Sigh... I sure hope this becomes the Year of the Women and the beginning of the end for patriarchy. However, the opposite of patriarchy is not matriarchy; it is egalitarianism. We, the People, all of us this time.
Given that the west has yet to learn about equity and equal rights, I doubt that the despotic Iranian regime will grant the brave women of Iran egalitarian rights, unless, of course, the entire country rises up against the Islamic Republic -- please god.
Cathy, it was ever thus. Men have blamed women for their own 'lack of control' for millennia. Think Eve and the apple, Bathsheba, and on and on. This is a strong archetype that plays a role in every culture, I'm sure.
Susan, The opposite of patriarchy is not matriarchy it is egalitarianism. Women over men wouldn't be that different than men over women. I do believe men use an OR paradigm. If you aren't one up then you must be one down. It's us versus them. It's if you get a bigger piece of the pie than you're taking it away from me. Women use the AND paradigm. Equity and inclusion. Creating harmony and synergy by listening to all perspectives and coming up with better solutions for all not just the privileged. Baking more and bigger pies so all experience well-being. My dream is that our government measures our success by a WBI - Well Being Index -- rather than GNP as the only measure. Several countries are already doing this where all legislation must show how it improves the well being of all the People. We, the People, all of us this time!
My understanding - anyone who knows better, please correct me - is that in the Iroquois nation, councils of women elders appointed - and could replace at any time - men to be war chiefs and otherwise lead. So men led, but they were responsible to the women. It worked quite well.
What a wonderful dream...seems so obvious but certain elements within our human nature too often become counterproductive. I see your point about matriarchy! Being a primary educator for 35 years...if forced to choose only between patriarchy or matriarchy...no hesitation for the ladies to lead. However to your point...I have experienced many Elizabeth Warren types...and too many MT Greens and Boeberts types. It seems best way...from family to National leadership venues...egalitarianism will always be best chance for the reasons you so articulately list. The force is strong in you!
Good lord what is a "Warren type"? A strong, energetic, extremely informed and intelligent woman unwilling to be silenced by casual negative judgements? That does not get a pass in my book. Forgive me for this cranky retort....was her voice too high?
Using her as a "Warren type"? A strong, energetic, extremely informed and intelligent woman unwilling to be silenced by casual negative judgements? was my point... compared to the other "type"
Cathy that's exactly what I'm talking about. Women tend more towards an egalitarian society, which would include men in decision making but would also ensure that women have an equal voice. matriarchy is not dominance by women, but it does put us in charge so we can ensure that all are equally heard.
Cathy, it strikes me that this binary world view wasn't universal, even though we see it in early Middle Eastern cultures. Still, we seem, in the early 21st century, to be putting it on steroids.
Generally, there has been a separation of men's work vs. women's work in most societies starting with the hunters/men and gatherers/women. With technology and other reasons seems like we no longer need to divide jobs by gender. I'm a women with an engineering mind so why shouldn't I work as an engineer even if when I entered the field my first task was to resolve the two stereotypes of woman and engineer weren't mutually exclusive! I had a marvelous career as an engineer and broke the glass ceiling into upper management. I don't want to see women and other genders have to do that again! We, the People, all of us of all genders this time.
GOD is all love, and only love, and can not be boxed into our definition, our inability to conceive fully a love of infinite love for ALL creation, Eh!?
However, I shall find and read "When god was a woman" I am thirsty for knowledge my curiosity is insatiable
Out of curiosity, I checked my home library system to see if we hold the title "When God Was A Woman" and we not only have it, we have 6 copies plus two "On Hold" for when a copy becomes available.
OMG, Judith! That sounds like something I would do (have done). I noticed last week I had double purchased a certain book, which wasn't the first time. (Even buying at second hand bookstores, I don't need to throw money away on duplicates! )
The book is more than 40 years old, so it was written when patriarchy was pretty much the reigning paradigm, hence the title is couched in those terms.
Come to think of it, it's probably time I re-read it myself!
Interestingly, the three longest ruling monarchs in England/Great Britain/the UK have been women. (Elizabeth 1, Victoria, Elizabeth 2) It seems like the queens were more successful than the kings.
What have you all been waiting for...get rid of Moscow mitchbitch and all of his fat white rich bigoted repignatians...vote them all out of office...how could any woman support those pigs???!!!
George, I have no idea how ANYONE with a working brain could support any of these MAGATs, who claim to be all about "freedom" but constantly look for ways to restrict other people's freedoms. Of course, "working brain" is the key.
That is one of the excuses, similar to restrictions on women in the other Abrahamic religions. It's a very odd excuse, since religiously observant men in all three control themselves a great deal in the process of following the many practices of each religion that apply to them.
Men can certainly control themselves, hijab or no hijab. The hijab may partially supress the misogynistic impulses of a few, but for the most part other measures are required to keep men who are inclined to abuse women from acting on their impulses.
Thank you KG. Yes, each religion has its rules on how to show reverence to the God they worship and that should be respected. It is interesting that in the Jewish religion it is the men who cover their heads with the yamulka and the women don't. I personally would not want to live in a theocracy where the government imposes one religion on all like Iran and punishes even minor infractions. Religions including the Jews and Christians are recognized in the Quran as People of Book. We are about to find out what that would be like to be a theocracy with the Supreme Court now manipulating the United States into a "Christian" theocracy. The hate and violence and holier than thou and we have the one and only right answer to what God wants isn't my understanding of Christianity. The founding tenet of Freedom to Religion is being dismantled by the Supreme Court. We,the People, all of us even women this time!
But when a crazed religious policeman kills a young woman because he was afraid he would become aroused by seeing a whisp of her hair, this has nothing to do with the young woman’s devotion to God, does it? His inappropriate aggression and violence was what the original rule was supposed to protect her from, isn’t it?
Nope. "lower their gaze and guard their modesty" "They should not display their beauty". It's true that noone is forced (except in Iran) to wear hijab, but for the underlying reason behind it, read Geraldine Brooks's brilliant "Nine Part of Desire".
As a woman, I suspect I'd be issued a citation for indecent exposure if not arrested for it.
Back in the 1990s, when thong bikinis became the "in thing" for some women, there was a movement that attempted to get them outlawed on the beach in San Diego CA. Didn't happen though. And I think of those European men's bikini bathing suits - we don't see them very often on our beaches here in SoCal.
It's an old book, written when she was sent to the Middle East as a reporter for the Wall St. Journal. She quickly realized that she would not be doing much reporting as a woman so decided to look into the lives of women in the various countries.
Growing up attending a "high Lutheran" church in southeastern Virginia, in the 1950s and into the 1960s, girls and women were expected to wear a hat - I don't recall ever seeing a female in church not wearing a hat - and wrist-length white gloves and stockings. You can imagine how the stockings felt in hot, humid weather!
“If God created all that is, then God surely has no need of our worship…”
Alternatively, if God created all that is then everything should be worshiped as God. In other words “all that is” is God. Worship the sky, the dirt, the flowers, each and every person you see, worship all as a manifestation of God. See God in everything! (Yes, even in those who are so disconnected from their hearts such as TFG et al. Even Christ, saw God in those so disconnected from their hearts, and souls, that as he was being crucified he said “forgive them Lord for they know not what they do.” “Know” as in being consciously aware.) A great saint once said “do what you do but never put anyone out of your heart.” Developing compassion for those we oppose will help ourselves and touch the hearts of those we oppose too. They may not consciously be aware of this, but it will touch their hearts.
Thank you for these quotations. That's interesting, that the actual modesty direction for women was to "draw their veils over their bosoms…” . What does the Quran say about modesty in clothing for men?
On behalf of holding more than one idea in the conversation at the same time: we have several major themes here: ideals of non-arrogance especially before Gd, application of those ideals to clothing, and the twisting of those ideals to excuse male domination of women, and as a consequence domination of certain groups of people over others.
In the 'non-arrogance expressed in clothing' department we see many different customs regarding head coverings, including Christian men taking off their hats in church to show respect, observant Jewish men wearing head coverings (from small ones to elaborate hats, depending on their group within Judaism) all the time to show respect for Gd, and the various customs of head covering for women. Looking at all this from secular or semi-secular current American culture, any of this non-familiar can feel very odd. As long as it's actually a voluntary observance of custom, well and good.
The trouble, of course, comes when actions shift from a voluntary expression of acknowledgment of Gd, or even of local practice, and become a vehicle to subordinate women or any other group. Much as I love my own religion, and am interested in others, I have to admit religion has been horribly abused for centuries as a cloak for outright evil. We see it in Iran with forced hijab, and in this country with forced birth.
To add to your observations, Joan: When I was studying history of religions, I learned that Mohammed's only living descendants were his daughters, who lived with him in quarters attached to the mosque. His second wife and his daughters were the ones who assembled and disseminated his teachings.
Like most middle eastern quarters, the windows and doors were usually left open for air flow, and so many people (I imagine mostly male) came to ask questions that the daughters had no privacy and little time to themselves. So Mohammed ordered that the doors be "veiled" in order that his daughters were not bothered by so many people constantly calling on them at their residence.
The daughters, however, were still the primary source of all Mohammed's teachings, as he was old and frail by this time. They were not confined to their quarters, as often assumed. All those who claim descent from Mohammed are descended through one (or more, as lines intertwined over time) of his daughters. And ALL of what is known about Mohammed's teaching came through his daughters.
It was only later that those teachings (as happens in when religions become about power, often mixed in with local social practices, and reinterpreted by what are largely self-appointed pundits) that the purpose of the veils were redefined as controls of sexuality and women became second-class members of society (at best). What are often seen as Mohammedan constrictions on women were actually meant as constrictions on men.
How about the stupid behavior of those men who seek control in the middle of a land hot as hell with no water!!!
How stupid is it to decide, “Oh! Look! We are in the middle of a hot as hell land with absolutely NO water…what a splendid place to live!”
Oh! And also, let us plant a gazillion square miles of grass, (that requires a gazillion gallons of water EVERY DAY), that is good for nothing except for old fat rich white “men” to whack at a tiny white ball that most can’t see hoping the ball lands in a tiny white cup a thousand miles distant. STUPID!
Forty years from now, no matter what happens in the meantime, extreme heat and water supply scarcity will make Phoenix one of the continent’s most uninhabitable places for ALL life forms.
Today, right now, the six largest cities in Arizona, because of catastrophically dry conditions, (the last two decades have been the driest in over 1,200 years!), have ALL declared potable water shortages…
So, now, today the dummies that daily choose to have their brains baked to a crisp have decided to be governed by one crazy ancient absurdity conceived in 1864 as law! REALLY STUPID!
Agree that we should not continue to grow in a desert, but Phoenix and Prescott are two different places. Northern AZ's water supplies and climate are vastly different. Those water supplies are also threatened by the exponential growth.
We moved to Mesa, AZ (really an extension of Phoenix in some ways) 8 years ago and I remain appalled at the unparalleled growth: the building of subdivisions after subdivision, office buildings, etc as if there were no tomorrow. And only NOW there is concern about lack of water??!! There was a time in CA you couldn’t get water in a restaurant unless you requested it, here I have to say “no water” unless I really am going to drink it.
Depends on where you live. Upscale Palo Alto water is undrinkable, yet 8 miles north where I lived for 35 years has wonderful tap water. Just moved to Central Valley, and it’s just “ok” with a filter system. Eureka had fabulous water last time I was up there.
So, as a child it was preoccupation with the wave conditions of the day, two man beach volleyball superiority all mid day, and of course the perfect tan...can't remember potable water issues, but in my early twenties the air became unbreathable so off to Eugene, Oregon for a "higher" education...never returned to Santa Monica...founded my Architectural/development/construction co in Portland enjoying it's Bull-Run water that is the best in the universe!
George E Dobbs, while your characterization of the taste of water might be true on some places, it’s not true where I live. I live in Greenbrae, north of San Francisco, and our water, sourced from local reservoirs, is fine.
That's exponential growth and even more exclusive private fenced-in golf communities in the dessert in the worst drought in 1,200 years affecting ALL of Arizona and the southwest USA...
There is NO water in Arizona...it is a dessert, yes even in Prescott where both my children graduated majoring in the permaculture environmental approach to save our planet from our ignorant destruction of its limited natural resources.......Almost all gone now, Eh!?
My point was the N AZ has different water sources than Phx, Phx area or Tucson, although Salt River Project has surface water rights on the Verde which impacts Prescott. No water and people keep coming. It's nuts.
George - Based on 50 years of living in San Diego (as far south as you can get in California), my local water tastes just fine. When I've spent time in other parts of California, including in Death Valley, I have not found tap water to taste bad. It may be more a question of your own taste buds.
Your gross generalizations about water water availability in Arizona, especially Prescott (forested, altitude 5,368', higher than one mile and not desert as I understand it) are not supported by facts. It's true that population growth has outpaced water resources in many parts of the southwest including Phoenix & vicinity, but especially agriculture, will suffer with the cutbacks of Colorado River water.
I would take the author's arguments about San Diego's water taste with a large grain of salt. How closely did you read it? Go to the Home Page of tappwater and you'll see that the author, of whom I never heard, is selling a home water purifying product. Actually, on the page link you give us, click on the Products link at top to see the various types of filters.
Curious about who Magnus Jern is, I did a bit of searching. On his own tappwater page is this:
"Magnus Jern
Computer geek and entrepreneur. Spent the last 5 years learning everything about tap water, water filters, bottled water and everything else you can imagine. Believes in radical transparency and writes a lot about myths and surprising facts. Drinks a lot of tap water, usually filtered." https://tappwater.co/en/author/magnus/
Page down on the author's page and you'll find a bunch of links to diverse articles, many but not all related to tap water safety (haven't read them to find out if he criticizes flavor although Boston gets a shout-out). He makes quite clear that tap water in the U.S. is generally safe to drink other than a few serious outliers we know about from the media.
More interesting to me is that every one of them is dated 22 September 2022. Not sure what that may imply but it seems odd. Especially since the man is selling a product so, to my mind, is not an objective assessor of the taste of local tap water.
Rather than post a list of additional links, do a web search on his name and learn about his diverse background and experience, primarily as an entrepreneur in a number of different fields. Here's what the first page of my DuckDuckGo search came up with: https://duckduckgo.com/?t=ffab&q=magnus+jern&ia=web
George, it isn't a question of winning or losing. It's a matter at looking objectively at the context of a source cited. Prior to retiring from my career as a librarian, I worked for 16 years as a "resource librarian" researching questions and information requests forwarded to my office by front-desk librarians in a 2-county cooperative library system.
Front-desk librarians have limited time and, in smaller libraries, access to limited resources within their own collections. The front-desk librarian had the option to forward requests to my office. As a "second level librarian" stationed in the largest library collection in that system, with access to collections of two major university libraries including a major university biomedical library, I often had to delve deeply and evaluate materials selected to provide answers to requests by library users at a front desk. It was, in fact, the reference librarian's dream job.....
Still planting grass is Maricopa, "The Lakes." But then and as they advertise, we have a large underground reservoir too. I believe they are watering with the grey water. It still does not make sense to plant grass.
So much for the "Originalist" argument in interpreting specific legislative intent for purposes desired to achieve a present-day "conservative" decision.
I was a child in the 1950s. For middle class white and temporarily-white people who had survived the world war, like my parents, the peace and quiet of the suburbs were the next thing to heaven. Not so much for people of color excluded from the postwar gains of whites, or gay people persecuted and shamed, or anyone lefty enough to sing "why can't it be Christmas the whole year round" (the Weavers were blacklisted for that song, because the appeal for peace did not suit the war industries and their lackeys), or .... Also, the pop music was terrible.
It really was not quite like that, but that is the fantasy that appears to be driving the people (male and female) who are behind some of the efforts thereoff. In the fifties, the groundwork was being laid for a resurgence of feminism. I had women teaching me math, latin, civics (critical thinking as a part of being a responsible citizen). Just because we are just now becoming aware of the role women played in the past doesn't mean it wasn't happening. And a lot of men supported these changes- I had some of those as teachers too. The ones who had trouble with those changes are the ones who created the atmosphere of anger, hate, and resistance that was exploited by power mongers and led to Reagan, the Bushes, Newt Gingrich, etc. It simmered and then with Trump, burst into flame. And here we are.
"Racist and patriarchal is largely driving the divide in the US..."
Hmmmm...
Are you referencing the quaint suburbs were minorities were only over "There" while "We Whites" were over here in our manicured lawns and seven foot high fences and women were "Home-makers" who shopped for the basics with her house allowance...those wonderful "50's"
Fascinating stuff. Heather, but oh so gruesome, racist, and patriarchal!!
“Written to police the behavior of men, the code tells a larger story about power and control.”
It is my understanding that the hijab headscarf that Iranian women are burning in protest originated because men couldn't control themselves. Sigh... I sure hope this becomes the Year of the Women and the beginning of the end for patriarchy. However, the opposite of patriarchy is not matriarchy; it is egalitarianism. We, the People, all of us this time.
Given that the west has yet to learn about equity and equal rights, I doubt that the despotic Iranian regime will grant the brave women of Iran egalitarian rights, unless, of course, the entire country rises up against the Islamic Republic -- please god.
As someone pointed out elsewhere, according to the Quran, the Iranian Islamic Republic is neither "Islamic" nor a "Republic."
Any more than the Christian Evangelicals in this country are all Christian. The mantle of religion covers a great many sins of all sorts.
Or the Christian Nationalists. They’re not Christian and they’re not patriotic. It’s much easier to call them what they are! Fascists!
Denise H.
Perhaps more to the point of saving American Democracy ALL of them are
theaceous treasonist that must be eliminated from ALL governing employment and U. S. citizenship...
They are all Fundamentalists. That is it's own religion, whether masquerading as "christian," "jewsih, "muslim,' or "hindu."
Without any apparent Scriptural basis.
Dave Conant - MO
INDEED!
So true.
❤️
I like this
❤️
Cathy, it was ever thus. Men have blamed women for their own 'lack of control' for millennia. Think Eve and the apple, Bathsheba, and on and on. This is a strong archetype that plays a role in every culture, I'm sure.
"You made me do it". -Adam
Said every domestic abuser since the dawn of time.
I'm more convinced than ever that if women ran the world everyone would be much better off! Why not give matriarchy a try?
Susan, The opposite of patriarchy is not matriarchy it is egalitarianism. Women over men wouldn't be that different than men over women. I do believe men use an OR paradigm. If you aren't one up then you must be one down. It's us versus them. It's if you get a bigger piece of the pie than you're taking it away from me. Women use the AND paradigm. Equity and inclusion. Creating harmony and synergy by listening to all perspectives and coming up with better solutions for all not just the privileged. Baking more and bigger pies so all experience well-being. My dream is that our government measures our success by a WBI - Well Being Index -- rather than GNP as the only measure. Several countries are already doing this where all legislation must show how it improves the well being of all the People. We, the People, all of us this time!
My understanding - anyone who knows better, please correct me - is that in the Iroquois nation, councils of women elders appointed - and could replace at any time - men to be war chiefs and otherwise lead. So men led, but they were responsible to the women. It worked quite well.
Attempted like
What a wonderful dream...seems so obvious but certain elements within our human nature too often become counterproductive. I see your point about matriarchy! Being a primary educator for 35 years...if forced to choose only between patriarchy or matriarchy...no hesitation for the ladies to lead. However to your point...I have experienced many Elizabeth Warren types...and too many MT Greens and Boeberts types. It seems best way...from family to National leadership venues...egalitarianism will always be best chance for the reasons you so articulately list. The force is strong in you!
Good lord what is a "Warren type"? A strong, energetic, extremely informed and intelligent woman unwilling to be silenced by casual negative judgements? That does not get a pass in my book. Forgive me for this cranky retort....was her voice too high?
Using her as a "Warren type"? A strong, energetic, extremely informed and intelligent woman unwilling to be silenced by casual negative judgements? was my point... compared to the other "type"
Thank you for clarifying. Please forgive my misreading.
In agreement again. WBI and our goals for We the People, totaly.
Cathy that's exactly what I'm talking about. Women tend more towards an egalitarian society, which would include men in decision making but would also ensure that women have an equal voice. matriarchy is not dominance by women, but it does put us in charge so we can ensure that all are equally heard.
Cathy Learoyd (Texas)
SEE!
Women are better.
Now DO IT!
NOW!
Please!!
Cathy, it strikes me that this binary world view wasn't universal, even though we see it in early Middle Eastern cultures. Still, we seem, in the early 21st century, to be putting it on steroids.
Generally, there has been a separation of men's work vs. women's work in most societies starting with the hunters/men and gatherers/women. With technology and other reasons seems like we no longer need to divide jobs by gender. I'm a women with an engineering mind so why shouldn't I work as an engineer even if when I entered the field my first task was to resolve the two stereotypes of woman and engineer weren't mutually exclusive! I had a marvelous career as an engineer and broke the glass ceiling into upper management. I don't want to see women and other genders have to do that again! We, the People, all of us of all genders this time.
Hands clapping, standing ovation.
Google a book called "When God Was a Woman". It's probably 40 years old, but still worth a read.
i believe some of the Polynesian cultures were matriarchies. Can anyone speak to this? Also, some Native American tribes.
Sandra P. Campbell
GOD is all love, and only love, and can not be boxed into our definition, our inability to conceive fully a love of infinite love for ALL creation, Eh!?
However, I shall find and read "When god was a woman" I am thirsty for knowledge my curiosity is insatiable
Thank you
Out of curiosity, I checked my home library system to see if we hold the title "When God Was A Woman" and we not only have it, we have 6 copies plus two "On Hold" for when a copy becomes available.
Judith Swink
Thank you for your infectious enthusiasm which is most appreciated!
So I thought you might also enjoy a bit of my enthusiasm about a highly recommended brief fifteen minute contemorization of GOD's wisdom...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n0zjKbRqUjQ
Thank you
OMG, Judith! That sounds like something I would do (have done). I noticed last week I had double purchased a certain book, which wasn't the first time. (Even buying at second hand bookstores, I don't need to throw money away on duplicates! )
The book is more than 40 years old, so it was written when patriarchy was pretty much the reigning paradigm, hence the title is couched in those terms.
Come to think of it, it's probably time I re-read it myself!
Sandra P. Campbell
Wonderful!
We can begin our own little book appreciation club, Eh!?
Usually, I'd agree wholeheartedly. However, my ex-mother-in-law would have been the fly in that ointment . . .
There are exceptions to every rule.
😒She was exceptional, as was her son, that's for sure.
LOL
Interestingly, the three longest ruling monarchs in England/Great Britain/the UK have been women. (Elizabeth 1, Victoria, Elizabeth 2) It seems like the queens were more successful than the kings.
Susan Radke
YES!
What have you all been waiting for...get rid of Moscow mitchbitch and all of his fat white rich bigoted repignatians...vote them all out of office...how could any woman support those pigs???!!!
George, I have no idea how ANYONE with a working brain could support any of these MAGATs, who claim to be all about "freedom" but constantly look for ways to restrict other people's freedoms. Of course, "working brain" is the key.
Susan Radke
Susan
Here is an idea for your consideration...
Follow the money
Discover the support source of motivation for the brainless duped
Totally agree
I've been on a mission to change the accepted spelling of equality to equALLity. Clearly, that was an oversight.
John, I like that. I will do so from now on. I do love caMel case words! Thanks!
That is one of the excuses, similar to restrictions on women in the other Abrahamic religions. It's a very odd excuse, since religiously observant men in all three control themselves a great deal in the process of following the many practices of each religion that apply to them.
Attempted like
Cathy Learoyd (Texas)
BRAVA!
Men can certainly control themselves, hijab or no hijab. The hijab may partially supress the misogynistic impulses of a few, but for the most part other measures are required to keep men who are inclined to abuse women from acting on their impulses.
Rex Page (Left Coast)
Do most men turn away from looking at a beautiful woman!?
What is the allure of a woman's beauty to most men, Eh!?
Instead of yielding to misogynistic temptations, choose to marvel in thanksgiving at creations perfect match, at least for most, Eh!?
Love creation's Love!
See the story of Eve which is about blaming women.
So good. Your observation is right on.
Thank you KG. Yes, each religion has its rules on how to show reverence to the God they worship and that should be respected. It is interesting that in the Jewish religion it is the men who cover their heads with the yamulka and the women don't. I personally would not want to live in a theocracy where the government imposes one religion on all like Iran and punishes even minor infractions. Religions including the Jews and Christians are recognized in the Quran as People of Book. We are about to find out what that would be like to be a theocracy with the Supreme Court now manipulating the United States into a "Christian" theocracy. The hate and violence and holier than thou and we have the one and only right answer to what God wants isn't my understanding of Christianity. The founding tenet of Freedom to Religion is being dismantled by the Supreme Court. We,the People, all of us even women this time!
But when a crazed religious policeman kills a young woman because he was afraid he would become aroused by seeing a whisp of her hair, this has nothing to do with the young woman’s devotion to God, does it? His inappropriate aggression and violence was what the original rule was supposed to protect her from, isn’t it?
Nope. "lower their gaze and guard their modesty" "They should not display their beauty". It's true that noone is forced (except in Iran) to wear hijab, but for the underlying reason behind it, read Geraldine Brooks's brilliant "Nine Part of Desire".
"It's true that noone is forced (except in Iran) to wear hijab,..."
I ride my bike on Miami Beach without wearing a shirt. I love the feel of wind on my bare skin.
Would you like to try that?
As a woman, I suspect I'd be issued a citation for indecent exposure if not arrested for it.
Back in the 1990s, when thong bikinis became the "in thing" for some women, there was a movement that attempted to get them outlawed on the beach in San Diego CA. Didn't happen though. And I think of those European men's bikini bathing suits - we don't see them very often on our beaches here in SoCal.
Wonderful book. I read it when it was first published in 1994, but it seems even more relevant today. Perhaps it’s time for a re-read.
Love her writing but missed this one. Will get and read asap.
It's an old book, written when she was sent to the Middle East as a reporter for the Wall St. Journal. She quickly realized that she would not be doing much reporting as a woman so decided to look into the lives of women in the various countries.
Growing up attending a "high Lutheran" church in southeastern Virginia, in the 1950s and into the 1960s, girls and women were expected to wear a hat - I don't recall ever seeing a female in church not wearing a hat - and wrist-length white gloves and stockings. You can imagine how the stockings felt in hot, humid weather!
“If God created all that is, then God surely has no need of our worship…”
Alternatively, if God created all that is then everything should be worshiped as God. In other words “all that is” is God. Worship the sky, the dirt, the flowers, each and every person you see, worship all as a manifestation of God. See God in everything! (Yes, even in those who are so disconnected from their hearts such as TFG et al. Even Christ, saw God in those so disconnected from their hearts, and souls, that as he was being crucified he said “forgive them Lord for they know not what they do.” “Know” as in being consciously aware.) A great saint once said “do what you do but never put anyone out of your heart.” Developing compassion for those we oppose will help ourselves and touch the hearts of those we oppose too. They may not consciously be aware of this, but it will touch their hearts.
Interesting and thanks for posting it. How quickly the woman’s devotion to Allah segued into covering the woman herself entirely.
Thank you for these quotations. That's interesting, that the actual modesty direction for women was to "draw their veils over their bosoms…” . What does the Quran say about modesty in clothing for men?
On behalf of holding more than one idea in the conversation at the same time: we have several major themes here: ideals of non-arrogance especially before Gd, application of those ideals to clothing, and the twisting of those ideals to excuse male domination of women, and as a consequence domination of certain groups of people over others.
In the 'non-arrogance expressed in clothing' department we see many different customs regarding head coverings, including Christian men taking off their hats in church to show respect, observant Jewish men wearing head coverings (from small ones to elaborate hats, depending on their group within Judaism) all the time to show respect for Gd, and the various customs of head covering for women. Looking at all this from secular or semi-secular current American culture, any of this non-familiar can feel very odd. As long as it's actually a voluntary observance of custom, well and good.
The trouble, of course, comes when actions shift from a voluntary expression of acknowledgment of Gd, or even of local practice, and become a vehicle to subordinate women or any other group. Much as I love my own religion, and am interested in others, I have to admit religion has been horribly abused for centuries as a cloak for outright evil. We see it in Iran with forced hijab, and in this country with forced birth.
To add to your observations, Joan: When I was studying history of religions, I learned that Mohammed's only living descendants were his daughters, who lived with him in quarters attached to the mosque. His second wife and his daughters were the ones who assembled and disseminated his teachings.
Like most middle eastern quarters, the windows and doors were usually left open for air flow, and so many people (I imagine mostly male) came to ask questions that the daughters had no privacy and little time to themselves. So Mohammed ordered that the doors be "veiled" in order that his daughters were not bothered by so many people constantly calling on them at their residence.
The daughters, however, were still the primary source of all Mohammed's teachings, as he was old and frail by this time. They were not confined to their quarters, as often assumed. All those who claim descent from Mohammed are descended through one (or more, as lines intertwined over time) of his daughters. And ALL of what is known about Mohammed's teaching came through his daughters.
It was only later that those teachings (as happens in when religions become about power, often mixed in with local social practices, and reinterpreted by what are largely self-appointed pundits) that the purpose of the veils were redefined as controls of sexuality and women became second-class members of society (at best). What are often seen as Mohammedan constrictions on women were actually meant as constrictions on men.
Well said!
Rowshan Nemazee
How about the stupid behavior of those men who seek control in the middle of a land hot as hell with no water!!!
How stupid is it to decide, “Oh! Look! We are in the middle of a hot as hell land with absolutely NO water…what a splendid place to live!”
Oh! And also, let us plant a gazillion square miles of grass, (that requires a gazillion gallons of water EVERY DAY), that is good for nothing except for old fat rich white “men” to whack at a tiny white ball that most can’t see hoping the ball lands in a tiny white cup a thousand miles distant. STUPID!
Forty years from now, no matter what happens in the meantime, extreme heat and water supply scarcity will make Phoenix one of the continent’s most uninhabitable places for ALL life forms.
Today, right now, the six largest cities in Arizona, because of catastrophically dry conditions, (the last two decades have been the driest in over 1,200 years!), have ALL declared potable water shortages…
So, now, today the dummies that daily choose to have their brains baked to a crisp have decided to be governed by one crazy ancient absurdity conceived in 1864 as law! REALLY STUPID!
WTF!
Agree that we should not continue to grow in a desert, but Phoenix and Prescott are two different places. Northern AZ's water supplies and climate are vastly different. Those water supplies are also threatened by the exponential growth.
We moved to Mesa, AZ (really an extension of Phoenix in some ways) 8 years ago and I remain appalled at the unparalleled growth: the building of subdivisions after subdivision, office buildings, etc as if there were no tomorrow. And only NOW there is concern about lack of water??!! There was a time in CA you couldn’t get water in a restaurant unless you requested it, here I have to say “no water” unless I really am going to drink it.
Carol Parsons
California "Water" is so horrible, it tastes like chalk, that everybody uses either canned drinks or bottled water from France, Etc.
Depends on where you live. Upscale Palo Alto water is undrinkable, yet 8 miles north where I lived for 35 years has wonderful tap water. Just moved to Central Valley, and it’s just “ok” with a filter system. Eureka had fabulous water last time I was up there.
Citizen60
So, as a child it was preoccupation with the wave conditions of the day, two man beach volleyball superiority all mid day, and of course the perfect tan...can't remember potable water issues, but in my early twenties the air became unbreathable so off to Eugene, Oregon for a "higher" education...never returned to Santa Monica...founded my Architectural/development/construction co in Portland enjoying it's Bull-Run water that is the best in the universe!
Happy ever after!
Love Eugene. Go Ducks!
Citizen60
INDEED!
George E Dobbs, while your characterization of the taste of water might be true on some places, it’s not true where I live. I live in Greenbrae, north of San Francisco, and our water, sourced from local reservoirs, is fine.
Barbara Stikker
The lower 2/3 of California, (80% of the Cal population), have HORRIBLE tap water...
https://www.marinwater.org/sites/default/files/2022-04/Marin%20Water%20Annual%20Water%20Quality%20Report%202019.pdf
Deb Thalasitis
Hello Deb
That's exponential growth and even more exclusive private fenced-in golf communities in the dessert in the worst drought in 1,200 years affecting ALL of Arizona and the southwest USA...
There is NO water in Arizona...it is a dessert, yes even in Prescott where both my children graduated majoring in the permaculture environmental approach to save our planet from our ignorant destruction of its limited natural resources.......Almost all gone now, Eh!?
My point was the N AZ has different water sources than Phx, Phx area or Tucson, although Salt River Project has surface water rights on the Verde which impacts Prescott. No water and people keep coming. It's nuts.
IT IS A DESERT
no human life sustaining rain in desert
https://unsplash.com/s/photos/arizona-desert
George - Based on 50 years of living in San Diego (as far south as you can get in California), my local water tastes just fine. When I've spent time in other parts of California, including in Death Valley, I have not found tap water to taste bad. It may be more a question of your own taste buds.
Your gross generalizations about water water availability in Arizona, especially Prescott (forested, altitude 5,368', higher than one mile and not desert as I understand it) are not supported by facts. It's true that population growth has outpaced water resources in many parts of the southwest including Phoenix & vicinity, but especially agriculture, will suffer with the cutbacks of Colorado River water.
As for water resources in Prescott, their water is not "almost all gone. Much of their water comes from groundwater. Reclamation of wastewater is used to recharge the aquifer as the city draws on the groundwater. https://www.prescott-az.gov/the-city-of-prescott-has-a-long-term-stable-water-supply/
Judith Swink (CA)
WOW!
Impressive research Judith...
However, it would seem that more than just a few of your neighbors do not at all like the taste of SD water...
https://tappwater.co/en/can-you-drink-san-diego-tap-water-2/
I would take the author's arguments about San Diego's water taste with a large grain of salt. How closely did you read it? Go to the Home Page of tappwater and you'll see that the author, of whom I never heard, is selling a home water purifying product. Actually, on the page link you give us, click on the Products link at top to see the various types of filters.
Curious about who Magnus Jern is, I did a bit of searching. On his own tappwater page is this:
"Magnus Jern
Computer geek and entrepreneur. Spent the last 5 years learning everything about tap water, water filters, bottled water and everything else you can imagine. Believes in radical transparency and writes a lot about myths and surprising facts. Drinks a lot of tap water, usually filtered." https://tappwater.co/en/author/magnus/
Page down on the author's page and you'll find a bunch of links to diverse articles, many but not all related to tap water safety (haven't read them to find out if he criticizes flavor although Boston gets a shout-out). He makes quite clear that tap water in the U.S. is generally safe to drink other than a few serious outliers we know about from the media.
More interesting to me is that every one of them is dated 22 September 2022. Not sure what that may imply but it seems odd. Especially since the man is selling a product so, to my mind, is not an objective assessor of the taste of local tap water.
Rather than post a list of additional links, do a web search on his name and learn about his diverse background and experience, primarily as an entrepreneur in a number of different fields. Here's what the first page of my DuckDuckGo search came up with: https://duckduckgo.com/?t=ffab&q=magnus+jern&ia=web
Judith Swink (CA)
WONDERFUL
ok
You win, Eh!?
George, it isn't a question of winning or losing. It's a matter at looking objectively at the context of a source cited. Prior to retiring from my career as a librarian, I worked for 16 years as a "resource librarian" researching questions and information requests forwarded to my office by front-desk librarians in a 2-county cooperative library system.
Front-desk librarians have limited time and, in smaller libraries, access to limited resources within their own collections. The front-desk librarian had the option to forward requests to my office. As a "second level librarian" stationed in the largest library collection in that system, with access to collections of two major university libraries including a major university biomedical library, I often had to delve deeply and evaluate materials selected to provide answers to requests by library users at a front desk. It was, in fact, the reference librarian's dream job.....
As you state, they are REALLY STUPID!!
And yet Phoenix has a stunning growth rate. White shift.
Kathy Clark
No shit White Shift!!!
But it’s dry heat…
Still planting grass is Maricopa, "The Lakes." But then and as they advertise, we have a large underground reservoir too. I believe they are watering with the grey water. It still does not make sense to plant grass.
So much for the "Originalist" argument in interpreting specific legislative intent for purposes desired to achieve a present-day "conservative" decision.
We won’t let them, Spooky!
I was a child in the 1950s. For middle class white and temporarily-white people who had survived the world war, like my parents, the peace and quiet of the suburbs were the next thing to heaven. Not so much for people of color excluded from the postwar gains of whites, or gay people persecuted and shamed, or anyone lefty enough to sing "why can't it be Christmas the whole year round" (the Weavers were blacklisted for that song, because the appeal for peace did not suit the war industries and their lackeys), or .... Also, the pop music was terrible.
It really was not quite like that, but that is the fantasy that appears to be driving the people (male and female) who are behind some of the efforts thereoff. In the fifties, the groundwork was being laid for a resurgence of feminism. I had women teaching me math, latin, civics (critical thinking as a part of being a responsible citizen). Just because we are just now becoming aware of the role women played in the past doesn't mean it wasn't happening. And a lot of men supported these changes- I had some of those as teachers too. The ones who had trouble with those changes are the ones who created the atmosphere of anger, hate, and resistance that was exploited by power mongers and led to Reagan, the Bushes, Newt Gingrich, etc. It simmered and then with Trump, burst into flame. And here we are.
Annie D Stratton (VT, PacNW)
It seems like wherever we go....
Then there we are....
Eh!?
Attempted like
Citizen60
I did it for you...
Spooky Singer (CO via CA)
"Racist and patriarchal is largely driving the divide in the US..."
Hmmmm...
Are you referencing the quaint suburbs were minorities were only over "There" while "We Whites" were over here in our manicured lawns and seven foot high fences and women were "Home-makers" who shopped for the basics with her house allowance...those wonderful "50's"
Eh!?
Spooky Singer (CO via CA)
INDEED!
Thank you SS + BEAUTIFUL PHOTO