You hit the nail on the head. I know so many people, even in my own family, that supported Trump and still refuse to acknowledge how incompetent he is. They just can't admit that they made a mistake. They love bullies. They are so stuck that they can't see anything good even though they are better off under Biden and Harris.
The people that run this country have ruined the lives of many millions of Americans. The list of gains under Joe from HCR are good, but they will take years to effect the lower wage people. Trump started his "coup" by blaming the migrants. Blaming the other. It is being done all over the world. The regular Dems and Rs have just been part of the rip off. Big money is making trillions at the expense of the lower tax payers.
Joe is still President yet on Friday footage from the cabinet meeting (that was long over due) showed unelected Jill at the head of the table running the meeting while Joe simply gazed around confused non verbal from the middle of the table. You still leave this man in office proving Democrats have no business deciding who is fit to run for office. Perhaps you and the Democrats should get an eye exam? If thatโs not enough letโs revisit his introduction of Prome Minister Midi that he blanked on, and yelled at his staff to tell him who he needed to introduce.
Ron, why can't people bring themselves to admit they have an addiction problem? The answer is they haven't hit rock bottom yet. Ukraine hit rock bottom on February 24, 2022, and they no longer have this particular issue.
MAGA will recognize they have a problem when they hit rock bottom. The only question is how many innocent victims have to die.
Amber Nicole Thurman and Candi Miller, rest in peace.
You make a great point James; it however reminds me of what Obama said about the Tea Party folks while, I believe, running for his second term: "they all love their guns and religion" (paraphrasing) or something to that extent. We have to solve the gun problem and get religion out of government. To start with, I would like to see the "prayer breakfast" done away with. In MHO, it is the biggest waste of government time imposed on those who serve in the House and Senate. That does not mean that they don't have a right to pray; prayer is no one's business but the one who indulges in it. That's OK with me. The solution? When in their own offices or chambers, let them take a few minutes individually to pray on their own. When in the prayer breakfast, it's not so much about prayer as much as it is about the "look at me" attitude to prove to everyone that they are believers in "God." Woe be unto them who divulges their true intent as an atheist while in Congress. There goes their job next election cycle even though they may well have served the people well.
Riad, we have different definitions of religion, but I think I know where you are because it appears to be where I was.
The word โreligionโ comes from the Latin words for โredoโ and โligament,โ which is a binding. We live in a social system that doesnโt hold itself together. Instead, itโs held together by the social bonds that include rules, traditions, and behavioral norms based on the moral โtreat others the way you would want to be treated if the shoe was on the other footโ principle.
Bonds tend to weaken on their own, and so they must be regularly and intentionally restrengthened. We have different practices that do that. Some we refer to as religions. Others include democracy, science, and capitalism. But to me theyโre all ways of re-binding, aka religions. The alternatives are the practices that divide.
How the social system responds to change is a practice, and the practice is adaptive or maladaptive. If the practice is adaptive, then it is a religion. If the practice is maladaptive, then it is a fixed ideology. Specifically, a โreligionโ is a practice based on the moral principle, and a โfixed ideologyโ is a practice based on the immoral โIโm right, youโre wrong, and this conversation is overโ principle.
That said, my philosophy is โI think, therefore I am โฆ making a potentially but not necessarily erroneous assumption.โ
You make a good argument, James. I especially like your breakdown of the word "religion", implying that it doesn't necessarily mean the existence of a God. However, I am having trouble with religion, as it is, and knowingly practiced in today's atmosphere which cohabitates with politics. Much of today's religion is, in fact, the โIโm right, youโre wrong, and this conversation is overโ ideology for which the evangelical right seems to be so fixed. And I'm not talking only about Christianity; religion has always been the dominion of man in how it was to be approached. "God" is seen as a man; Adam was seen as the first human on earth; for centuries, man had dominion over women; and nowhere in history (up until modern times) has woman been given a scintilla of worth of respect. And one should not even get me started on ISIS's brand of Islam, or the Taliban, or even Wahhabism as practiced today in Saudia Arabia. I know a little something about this, my friend, as you may know, I was born in Damascus Syria and lived in the Middle East for the first 10 years of my life. I certainly don't disdain nor disrespect Islam (nor any other religion; it is not my business to evaluate religion) as there are many suras in the Koran that protect women; however, like all other religions, Islam, as also Judaism, and likely all others tend to be interpreted by men for men and can be "evangelized" as ISIS did so readily. OK...I need to stop; I feel myself droning on here. ๐
Your experiences have taught you many things about this than I will never know, but we both know that morality has a small short-term cost compared to its enormous long-term benefit, and immorality has a small short-term benefit compared to its enormous long-term cost. Jesus knew that, so did the prophet Muhammad, and so did the Hebrew prophets.
The point Iโve been trying to make is that if we use the word โreligionโ to refer to something that is moral, and we use the same word to refer to something that is immoral, then the word has unnecessarily lost its meaning, the loss is to the good guys, and the bad guys won another battle.
I think winning this battle would be easy. Iโm trying to suggest to the moral people of the world that we adopt a practice of referring to a moral practice as a religion and referring to an immoral practice as a fundamentalist ideology. The intent of the former is to unite, and the intent of the latter is to divide. But I too need to be careful about droning on.
"I think winning this battle would be easy. Iโm trying to suggest to the moral people of the world that we adopt a practice of referring to a moral practice as a religion and referring to an immoral practice as a fundamentalist ideology." This idea of yours...I can definitely work with that.
Ron Boyd, I agree with your sentiment โ๐โ๐๐ก ๐ผโ๐ฃ๐ ๐๐๐๐ ๐ก๐ ๐๐๐๐๐๐ฃ๐ ๐๐ ๐กโ๐๐ก ๐กโ๐ ๐ ๐๐๐๐๐ ๐๐๐๐ ๐๐ ๐ ๐ ๐๐๐๐ฆ ๐๐๐๐๐๐ ๐๐๐โ๐ก ๐๐ข๐๐ก ๐ท๐๐๐๐๐ ๐๐๐ข๐๐ ๐๐ ๐๐๐๐๐ข๐ ๐ ๐กโ๐๐ฆ ๐ ๐๐๐๐๐ฆ ๐๐๐๐๐๐ก ๐๐๐๐๐ ๐กโ๐๐๐ ๐๐๐ฃ๐๐ ๐ก๐ ๐๐๐๐๐ก ๐กโ๐๐ก ๐กโ๐๐ฆ ๐๐๐๐ ๐ ๐๐๐ ๐ก๐๐๐." But our victory will be to keep sending the message without blame to those who feel they made a mistake but canโt admit it to remind them, their vote is private and that admission of a mistake can be reflected in voting for democracy and an all blue ticket and no one will ever know. And that should give them the catharsis they need to forgive themselves for being so duped by trump and all his sycophants up close and personal with him right now pushing for the total destruction of our democracy and the institution of fascist authoritarianism.
I believe there is a second reason that Republican voters cannot move away from Trump: Tribalism. "I am a loyal Republican. I will vote for the nominee of my party, no matter how disgustingly awful he is."
Mitch McConnell, Jeff Flake, Glenn Youngkin, Lindsey Graham...on and on and on...all these people have at one time or another have had terrible opinions of Trump and still....on they go. They have no honor as Liz Cheney has asserted.
Hatred is an addiction like cocaine but it can be shared which increases its effect. So when a group of people all hate together it is reinforcing. You hear "They hate the same people he does". It is the hatred which keeps them bound to Trump. I can't find my source for this but she is on Threads
And you NEVER hear the corollary: "he likes the people they like". For a reason? He likes Putin, Xi, Kim, Orbรกn - how many Americans of any stripe "like" those guys?
People like to think of themselves as loyal, and they fail to recognize that by supporting the washed-up has-been Felon45, they are being disloyal to America. Also, yes, the sunk-cost fallacy, and their fear of being seen as, or having to think of themselves as, failures as a consequence of having backed the wrong horse. So they choose the lesser loyalty over the greater.
Part of the reason is that most Republican members of the House and Senate cannot bring themselves to denounce Trump for fear of losing their own seats which they hold onto with all their might! How many want to lose $174K of salary, 'free' benefits, and the shortest 'work' year in the USA? Congress is one of the best places for one to become a millionaire!
Jeff Carpenter - "MAGAt's won't get this message."
"๐ป๐๐ค ๐๐๐ ๐๐๐ฆ๐๐๐ ๐ ๐ก๐๐๐ ๐ ๐ข๐๐๐๐๐ก ๐กโ๐๐ ๐๐ข๐ฆ?
๐โ๐๐ข๐ ๐๐๐๐ ๐๐ ๐กโ๐๐๐ ๐๐๐๐๐๐ โ๐๐ฃ๐ ๐๐๐๐ ๐๐๐๐๐๐๐ก๐๐, ๐๐๐๐๐ ๐๐ข๐กโ๐๐๐๐, ๐๐๐๐ข๐๐๐๐ก๐๐๐๐๐ ๐๐ ๐ ๐๐๐๐๐๐, ๐๐๐ ๐๐-๐๐๐ ๐๐ข๐๐๐๐ โ๐๐, ๐๐ ๐ข๐๐๐๐๐ ๐ก๐๐๐๐๐๐ ๐กโ๐ ๐๐๐๐ ๐๐ ๐๐กโ๐๐๐ค๐๐ ๐ ๐๐๐๐๐๐ก, ๐๐๐ก๐๐๐๐๐๐๐๐ก, ๐๐๐๐โ๐๐๐๐ก๐๐ ๐๐๐๐๐๐ ๐๐๐๐ก๐๐๐ข๐ ๐ก๐ ๐ ๐ก๐๐๐ ๐๐โ๐๐๐ ๐ ๐๐๐๐๐๐ ๐คโ๐, ๐๐๐๐๐๐ก๐๐ฃ๐๐๐ฆ ๐ ๐๐๐๐๐๐๐, ๐๐ ๐๐๐ ๐๐ ๐กโ๐ ๐ค๐๐๐ ๐ก โ๐ข๐๐๐ ๐๐๐๐๐๐ ๐๐ ๐กโ๐ ๐๐๐๐๐๐กโ๐๐๐ก ๐๐๐๐๐ ๐ก๐ ๐๐ฃ๐๐ ๐ ๐๐ก ๐๐ ๐กโ๐ โ๐๐โ๐๐ ๐ก ๐ ๐๐๐ก ๐๐ ๐๐๐ค๐๐ ๐๐ ๐๐ข๐ ๐๐๐ก๐๐๐.
๐ด๐๐ ๐ค๐ ๐๐๐๐ ๐๐ข๐๐ ๐๐๐ฃ๐๐ ๐๐ ๐๐๐๐, '๐ป๐๐ค ๐๐ ๐กโ๐ โ๐๐๐ ๐๐ ๐กโ๐๐ ๐ ๐ก๐๐๐ ๐๐๐ ๐ ๐๐๐๐? ๐โ๐๐ก ๐๐ ๐ค๐๐๐๐ ๐ค๐๐กโ ๐กโ๐๐?'
๐โ๐๐ก ๐ผโ๐ฃ๐ ๐๐๐๐ ๐ก๐ ๐๐๐๐๐๐ฃ๐ ๐๐ ๐กโ๐๐ก ๐กโ๐ ๐ ๐๐๐๐๐ ๐๐๐๐ ๐๐ ๐ ๐ ๐๐๐๐ฆ ๐๐๐๐๐๐ ๐๐๐โ๐ก ๐๐ข๐๐ก ๐ท๐๐๐๐๐ ๐๐๐ข๐๐ ๐๐ ๐๐๐๐๐ข๐ ๐ ๐กโ๐๐ฆ ๐ ๐๐๐๐๐ฆ ๐๐๐๐๐๐ก ๐๐๐๐๐ ๐กโ๐๐๐ ๐๐๐ฃ๐๐ ๐ก๐ ๐๐๐๐๐ก ๐กโ๐๐ก ๐กโ๐๐ฆ ๐๐๐๐ ๐ ๐๐๐ ๐ก๐๐๐."
https://johnpavlovitz.substack.com/p/the-one-reason-so-many-people-cant?utm_source=post-email-title&publication_id=2037902&post_id=149207795&utm_campaign=email-post-title&isFreemail=true&r=3zw8i&triedRedirect=true&utm_medium=email
You hit the nail on the head. I know so many people, even in my own family, that supported Trump and still refuse to acknowledge how incompetent he is. They just can't admit that they made a mistake. They love bullies. They are so stuck that they can't see anything good even though they are better off under Biden and Harris.
The people that run this country have ruined the lives of many millions of Americans. The list of gains under Joe from HCR are good, but they will take years to effect the lower wage people. Trump started his "coup" by blaming the migrants. Blaming the other. It is being done all over the world. The regular Dems and Rs have just been part of the rip off. Big money is making trillions at the expense of the lower tax payers.
Even though heโs falling apart right before their eyes.
Joe is still President yet on Friday footage from the cabinet meeting (that was long over due) showed unelected Jill at the head of the table running the meeting while Joe simply gazed around confused non verbal from the middle of the table. You still leave this man in office proving Democrats have no business deciding who is fit to run for office. Perhaps you and the Democrats should get an eye exam? If thatโs not enough letโs revisit his introduction of Prome Minister Midi that he blanked on, and yelled at his staff to tell him who he needed to introduce.
I'll get an eye exam when you take a spelling/grammar test. Maybe you are old enough to remember the final stanza of Ronald Reagan.
Go back to Fox and NewsMax. They enjoy having readers like you to bamboozle.
Why is that the go to response on here? Such a sophomoric response.
Ron, why can't people bring themselves to admit they have an addiction problem? The answer is they haven't hit rock bottom yet. Ukraine hit rock bottom on February 24, 2022, and they no longer have this particular issue.
MAGA will recognize they have a problem when they hit rock bottom. The only question is how many innocent victims have to die.
Amber Nicole Thurman and Candi Miller, rest in peace.
You make a great point James; it however reminds me of what Obama said about the Tea Party folks while, I believe, running for his second term: "they all love their guns and religion" (paraphrasing) or something to that extent. We have to solve the gun problem and get religion out of government. To start with, I would like to see the "prayer breakfast" done away with. In MHO, it is the biggest waste of government time imposed on those who serve in the House and Senate. That does not mean that they don't have a right to pray; prayer is no one's business but the one who indulges in it. That's OK with me. The solution? When in their own offices or chambers, let them take a few minutes individually to pray on their own. When in the prayer breakfast, it's not so much about prayer as much as it is about the "look at me" attitude to prove to everyone that they are believers in "God." Woe be unto them who divulges their true intent as an atheist while in Congress. There goes their job next election cycle even though they may well have served the people well.
All so true, Riad.
Riad, we have different definitions of religion, but I think I know where you are because it appears to be where I was.
The word โreligionโ comes from the Latin words for โredoโ and โligament,โ which is a binding. We live in a social system that doesnโt hold itself together. Instead, itโs held together by the social bonds that include rules, traditions, and behavioral norms based on the moral โtreat others the way you would want to be treated if the shoe was on the other footโ principle.
Bonds tend to weaken on their own, and so they must be regularly and intentionally restrengthened. We have different practices that do that. Some we refer to as religions. Others include democracy, science, and capitalism. But to me theyโre all ways of re-binding, aka religions. The alternatives are the practices that divide.
How the social system responds to change is a practice, and the practice is adaptive or maladaptive. If the practice is adaptive, then it is a religion. If the practice is maladaptive, then it is a fixed ideology. Specifically, a โreligionโ is a practice based on the moral principle, and a โfixed ideologyโ is a practice based on the immoral โIโm right, youโre wrong, and this conversation is overโ principle.
That said, my philosophy is โI think, therefore I am โฆ making a potentially but not necessarily erroneous assumption.โ
You make a good argument, James. I especially like your breakdown of the word "religion", implying that it doesn't necessarily mean the existence of a God. However, I am having trouble with religion, as it is, and knowingly practiced in today's atmosphere which cohabitates with politics. Much of today's religion is, in fact, the โIโm right, youโre wrong, and this conversation is overโ ideology for which the evangelical right seems to be so fixed. And I'm not talking only about Christianity; religion has always been the dominion of man in how it was to be approached. "God" is seen as a man; Adam was seen as the first human on earth; for centuries, man had dominion over women; and nowhere in history (up until modern times) has woman been given a scintilla of worth of respect. And one should not even get me started on ISIS's brand of Islam, or the Taliban, or even Wahhabism as practiced today in Saudia Arabia. I know a little something about this, my friend, as you may know, I was born in Damascus Syria and lived in the Middle East for the first 10 years of my life. I certainly don't disdain nor disrespect Islam (nor any other religion; it is not my business to evaluate religion) as there are many suras in the Koran that protect women; however, like all other religions, Islam, as also Judaism, and likely all others tend to be interpreted by men for men and can be "evangelized" as ISIS did so readily. OK...I need to stop; I feel myself droning on here. ๐
Your experiences have taught you many things about this than I will never know, but we both know that morality has a small short-term cost compared to its enormous long-term benefit, and immorality has a small short-term benefit compared to its enormous long-term cost. Jesus knew that, so did the prophet Muhammad, and so did the Hebrew prophets.
The point Iโve been trying to make is that if we use the word โreligionโ to refer to something that is moral, and we use the same word to refer to something that is immoral, then the word has unnecessarily lost its meaning, the loss is to the good guys, and the bad guys won another battle.
I think winning this battle would be easy. Iโm trying to suggest to the moral people of the world that we adopt a practice of referring to a moral practice as a religion and referring to an immoral practice as a fundamentalist ideology. The intent of the former is to unite, and the intent of the latter is to divide. But I too need to be careful about droning on.
"I think winning this battle would be easy. Iโm trying to suggest to the moral people of the world that we adopt a practice of referring to a moral practice as a religion and referring to an immoral practice as a fundamentalist ideology." This idea of yours...I can definitely work with that.
Ron Boyd, I agree with your sentiment โ๐โ๐๐ก ๐ผโ๐ฃ๐ ๐๐๐๐ ๐ก๐ ๐๐๐๐๐๐ฃ๐ ๐๐ ๐กโ๐๐ก ๐กโ๐ ๐ ๐๐๐๐๐ ๐๐๐๐ ๐๐ ๐ ๐ ๐๐๐๐ฆ ๐๐๐๐๐๐ ๐๐๐โ๐ก ๐๐ข๐๐ก ๐ท๐๐๐๐๐ ๐๐๐ข๐๐ ๐๐ ๐๐๐๐๐ข๐ ๐ ๐กโ๐๐ฆ ๐ ๐๐๐๐๐ฆ ๐๐๐๐๐๐ก ๐๐๐๐๐ ๐กโ๐๐๐ ๐๐๐ฃ๐๐ ๐ก๐ ๐๐๐๐๐ก ๐กโ๐๐ก ๐กโ๐๐ฆ ๐๐๐๐ ๐ ๐๐๐ ๐ก๐๐๐." But our victory will be to keep sending the message without blame to those who feel they made a mistake but canโt admit it to remind them, their vote is private and that admission of a mistake can be reflected in voting for democracy and an all blue ticket and no one will ever know. And that should give them the catharsis they need to forgive themselves for being so duped by trump and all his sycophants up close and personal with him right now pushing for the total destruction of our democracy and the institution of fascist authoritarianism.
I believe there is a second reason that Republican voters cannot move away from Trump: Tribalism. "I am a loyal Republican. I will vote for the nominee of my party, no matter how disgustingly awful he is."
Mitch McConnell, Jeff Flake, Glenn Youngkin, Lindsey Graham...on and on and on...all these people have at one time or another have had terrible opinions of Trump and still....on they go. They have no honor as Liz Cheney has asserted.
That certainly seems to be true. There's no logical reason.
โฆ.being a Republican is their identity.
The Sunk Cost Fallacy.
Hatred is an addiction like cocaine but it can be shared which increases its effect. So when a group of people all hate together it is reinforcing. You hear "They hate the same people he does". It is the hatred which keeps them bound to Trump. I can't find my source for this but she is on Threads
And you NEVER hear the corollary: "he likes the people they like". For a reason? He likes Putin, Xi, Kim, Orbรกn - how many Americans of any stripe "like" those guys?
People like to think of themselves as loyal, and they fail to recognize that by supporting the washed-up has-been Felon45, they are being disloyal to America. Also, yes, the sunk-cost fallacy, and their fear of being seen as, or having to think of themselves as, failures as a consequence of having backed the wrong horse. So they choose the lesser loyalty over the greater.
It has been proven that, when people choose an extreme side, they are more likely to stick with it if it fails than if it succeeds.
I can attest to this in my own life in that the worse my college football team does, the more loyally I stand by them.
It gives you a nice warm feeling.
Part of the reason is that most Republican members of the House and Senate cannot bring themselves to denounce Trump for fear of losing their own seats which they hold onto with all their might! How many want to lose $174K of salary, 'free' benefits, and the shortest 'work' year in the USA? Congress is one of the best places for one to become a millionaire!