I would like to know if anyone is tracking whether the story that J D Vance admitted to Dana Bash that the “cats being eaten” story was a lie has made it into any of the major networks’ nightly news broadcasts and/or the front page of any major newspapers.
Given the catastrophic effect this lie has had on Springfield, Ohio … including the cancellation of its cultural festival… I believe (a) this should be Front Page News and (b) the people of Springfield should bring a class action lawsuit against Trump and Vance and (if Merrick Garland *cough cough* has the guts) Trump and Vance should be labeled domestic terrorists.
Which reminds me… isn’t Trump out on bail from Judge Merchan in NYC? Isn’t Trump’s behavior towards Springfield a violation of the terms of his bail? 🤔
Also, to Heather’s point a few days ago… isn’t this all really about trying to scare America into giving the GOP the majority in the Senate so they can shut down anything the Dems want to pass moving forward? In the “event” they lose they want to retain their corrupt Supreme Court and its privileges as well as rollbacks of civil and womens rights. Remember… this election is about supporting and voting for democrats down the line so we can take back our country from these fascists. Same goes for Tester which is the other Dem they’re trying to flip! Vote blue down the line!
Thanks for the encouragement- donated to Allred in TX; put Ruben Gallego in AZ on a monthly because I don’t want to see Kari Lake win in AZ; will add Tester and Brown.
Hopium - Simon Rosenberg on Substack does “down ballot candidates”. I also found the Giving Circle; and With over 70,000 volunteers across the nation, Sister District is one of the largest and most effective progressive grassroots organizations in the country. You can Google It. And https://statesproject.org/get-involved/giving-circles/
Tester especially, if PBS news laterly is to be believed. Montana, of "Yellowstone" fame. A month ago it was an even match, but that has seriously slipped since then. There is much to worry about here, this is a defining state for the Senate majority. Plainly something has been going on in Montana. Here's one Montana news source. Seems "nationalization" is the game, and spending is through the roof. https://montanafreepress.org/2024/09/13/political-consultant-laments-nationalization-of-montana-politics/
Both Harris & Walz are the Wrong messengers. Dick Cheney slightly better. The military surrogates and speakers from the convention about the importance of a woman’s freedom are good.
Great point, but sadly I don't think Cheney will be doing any campaigning for Democratic Senate candidate. He might if there was a race in Wyoming, but even then, I expect he would stay out of it.
Near as I can tell, Tester has survived because he's strong, as a farmer i think, on local issues that matter. Both parties have brought "national" issues to the fore, and this seems to be pulling him down in the polls. I doubt if the Cheney's would be much help, considering how Liz got trounced in Wyoming and essentially ejected from the House, where she had been 2nd or 3rd in command. Dems should worry on this, I get the impression.
I saw Tester on Lawrence O'Donnell last night and can't understand how Montana voters can prefer his rival over Tester. Perhaps the polling is skewed. Here's Tester last night on The Last Word https://www.msnbc.com/the-last-word
Are you related to Laura? LOL (just kidding of course, couldn't resist though! Hope you have a decent sense of humor!).
I agree, Cheney will not step in here. He is a Republican for sure, even if his party has been ripped away from him. Tester is losing because of the timing. He won in 2012 when Obama won and then again in 2018, the year of the "blue wave" with no Presidential election to help the GOP. And yes, he is a pretty conservative guy. But this year is a presidential election year and Trump will surge in Montana and that will carry his MAGAt candidate over the finish line ahead of Tester. I would love to see Jon win (I like the way he spells his first name LOL) but I don't think it is likely or even possible.
I expect they will make one or two short trips to Montana but they are crazy if they spend any time there. They need to focus on the swing states where the Presidential race will be decided including of course Pennsylvania. This country will survive Tester losing in Montana. But I do not think it will survive (intact) if Harris loses the Presidency.
Tester is the only REAL farmer in the Senate, folks, and we’ve got climate change. We need a voice for real food, not corporate-made, calorie loaded mush. He’s being attacked by a gazillionaire who’s no farmer! Send all the $5 you can!
Sigh, he is going to lose. Pretty much guaranteed. And your money would be better spent helping Harris and Walz win in the swing states. THAT is what is important, not losing to Trump.
For some reason there is VBM for which you can register by phone, project run by counties in FL. If you have postcards, TonyTheDemocrat will send you addresses, no names but many possible (Valued Voter is my favorite) ones and scripts for whichever county he is covering. I have written several hundred, learning FL counties as I go. If there are 100 others writing and 1000 voters per county responding, we may turn FL!
Betsy, we have donated to several D campaigns both locally here in Oregon and across the country although our credit union doesn't like us doing too many all at once, so we have to space them out. Unfortunately, the Oregon DMV actually enrolled 306 noncitizens as voters and you can bet, although they are fixing it, that we will hear about how noncitizens are voting.
If there is too much activity on the card in a short amount of time, it trips a fraud alert. One time i was Christmas shopping for my husband and I don't waste time, so there were several charges in a short time. They actually called and told him where the charges were! He didn't know what, but he knew where. We also have had some charges that weren't ours and so it's OK, just a pain sometime.
Thank you for the information! I saw Tester's ads in Montana recently. They are so strong, clearly there's money behind them. I was really surprised to learn that his Senate seat is in danger.
The other side has money also. The ads are strong, upsetting, and really p*** me off. I am returning from MT to AK today after a week stay. I love MT but racist white male nationalists control ......... and Tester has lived on the land for generations.
Ellie thanks for the links. I used your links and added a tip for Tester and Brown via Act Blue so took less than 2 seconds to do it! It would be great for all of us here to come together each week to do something worthy for a candidate in need. But this is great as well.
Trying to scare America? Sadly, its not America I am worried about. It is West Virginia (where Trump won by 38%, the largest margin of any state in America in 2020, even as Biden was winning the election) and Montana (which Trump won by 16% in 2020). Those are the only two states which are virtually certain to flip, with Manchin of WV having retired and Tester of Montana virtually certain to lose. So I do not agree with your premise. There is almost no realistic scenario where the Democrats can hold the Senate, even assuming Sherrod Brown can win again in Ohio. I wish it was different (and if I was smoking what everyone else making comments like this is smoking maybe I could delude myself that reality isn't real) but we are victims of the weird Senate system and the balance on party power which changes every two years (unlike the House where changes are more about overall turnout).
When Jon Tester last ran in 2018, it was an off-year for President and people were already getting sick of Trump. The House flipped to Democratic control that year and the Senate got VERY close to flipping, with the GOP hanging on to a 51-49 majority. But Trump wasn't running and the GOP turnout was much lower. In 2020, people were totally done with Trump, especially during the mishandling of the pandemic. And 2020 was a year when fewer Democratic Senate seats were at risk than GOP.
Now in 2024, we are repeating the 2018 cycle except it is a Presidential election year, so even if Trump loses (which appears highly likely now), GOP turnout will be large and in the states that really count for the Senate (WV and Montana) there is almost no scenario where the Dems can realistically win. Ohio will be tough for Brown, but at least he is loved there. Tester isn't loved, just has won very close elections. His luck of running in 2018, ran out this year having to run in a Presidential election year. History suggests Montana will turn out huge for Trump and that will mean Tester simply has almost zero chance of winning (and the polls bear that out).
So while I will keep my fingers crossed that some other upsets might happen (beat Cruz in Texas?!! or beat Scott in Florida? - slightly better chance but still highly unlikely) but I am pretty much resigned to losing the Senate. We need to keep focused on making sure the White House stays Democratic and hope New Yorkers in the swing districts that went GOP in 2022 will swing back, giving us a slim lead in the House.
In 2026, the trend moves back towards the Dems in the Senate and that year we probably will take back the Senate. And THEN we can finally move this country forward to a better future.
I have worked on statewide and national politics for a long time and I have always been careful not to spread my goals too thin. "Do all we can" often feels (to me) like an over-commitment rather than focusing on what is rationally possible. I'd love to think if I just worked a little harder I could turn the whole nation around but I've learned my lesson on that notion many times (particularly 44 years ago in the Carter- Reagan election). We were all dewy- eyed idealists who knew the world was changing and we were leading it, first by getting Nixon to resign and then by getting Carter elected. Boy were we in for an eye opener in 1980. Reagan? THE ACTOR? And sure enough he kicked Carter's butt and now 44 years later here we are.
I don't think "it's all hopeless" but I do think there are real rational goals we can reach if we don't diffuse our efforts too much.
Just Donated to Tester and Brown and I know and agree giving up is not in my lexicon either. I was literally thrown off a porch in NC where I live. I decided in order to continue and not buckle under the strain of folks yelling or saying mean things I would partner with other Canvassers. That speech that Fannie Lou Hamer gave at the 1964 Democratic Convention never leaves me or the story of Rev James Reeb. If you don’t know the stories- Google it and your soul will be charged up!!
I don't believe a word of the polls. Women are furious and will vote in droves for VP Harris. The magats are toast. MSM will not tell us the truth since they are all in for the convicted felon adjudicated rapist for tax breaks...we will prevail!
Well here is what I learned about women voting when there is a male in the household- women may tote the line of the household. Last Saturday I had the experience of two women running toward the door and confronting me stating very loudly “we are undecided” while blinking their eyes wildly. I asked is there anything I can help you with (I know all the stats for how Harris will help our country) and she repeated while blinking her eyes hard “ we are undecided “- and almost similar instance at another door where I canvassed this time a man came up behind the women as she was about to speak he said “get the hell off my porch”— she looked so troubled and helpless- we locked eyes for a moment and I felt sorry for her that she was not allowed to speak to me on her own. What is happening?
Most of them. (I assume you meant lunatics lol). Tester had won in Montana because of the timing of his elections. He was first elected in 2012 when Obama had a big win nationally. He won in 2018 by a very thin margin in the so-called Blue sweep which really was remarkable and there was no "Trump coat tails" to help his opponent. This year is not a good year for Tester and the polls (yes I know a lot of you don't believe in polls but that is nonsense they are mostly pretty damn good indicators and have been for years). Anyway, I think Tester is done this year. And with the virtually 100% lock the GOP have on Manchin s seat in West Virginia, that makes the senate 51-49 GOP. Game over. Put a fork in it. Start looking at 2026.
Sorry to be so rough but why waste time on fantasies when reality is what you have to deal with.
Might I be wrong? Of course but as someone (maybe Bret Maverick?) once said, sure the tortoise might win but I'll bet on the rabbit.
Good luck with your fantasies. Polls aren't perfect by any means but they show clear trends. If you really believe that the Magats are "toast" I want some of the boo you are smoking. Must be good stuff!!!
I personally believe in political reality. Yes we will prevail in some places (most hopefully the white house and the House) but not in all places (most likely not the Senate).
Logic and reason says we will NOT prevail in the Senate. You are welcome to engage in wishful thinking but I have concluded that some battles are simply lost and the sooner you accept it the more you can accomplish by moving on.
The senate is MOST likely lost to the Dems this election but with a really good chance of regaining it in 2026. I am focusing on making sure Trump doesn't win on November and that we take back the house (two much more likely goals and ones with good results for the country).
Do we want the Senate? Of course we do but the fates of how the seats are distributed gives us a very long shot at holding it, even 50-50. For me the only rational move is to put as much resource as we can into the presidency and the House and wait until 2026 when, with 19 GOP senate seats up for grabs and virtually no Democratic seats at risk, we have a much better chance of retaking it.
Sticking your head in the sand and believing in fairy tales isn't a good look, sorry to be so brutal about it but I've been through 13 presidential elections and 13 more off year elections in my life and I've learned a few lessons like fight the battles that are winnable and move on quickly from the ones you are going to lose. And I've still been bitten by the unexpected (like Trump's victory in 2016 sigh).
Good luck with your dreams. I'll bet on things that at least have a chance.
I believe you are wrong....but we will see in November. I just drove through Wyoming, Montana and S. Dakota. There were VERY few Trump Vance signs. I may have seen three or four.
Even Galveston, Texas, has seen a large number of souvenir shops, without their usual Trump merchandise. I've seen very few Trump signs....fewer than Harris/Walz in my neighborhood.
And I ain't smoking anything. I believe your wrong, I hope your wrong, but we'll see in November. And if we win...we will see all the dirty trick Repubs play to throw the election
We still have time to mitigate our 2020 losses and take our message to the diaspora. E.G. Uniontown, Waynesburg, Somerset, New Castle, Meadville, Sharon. Dubois Pa. Grand Rapids. Wausau, Green Bay, etc.
Target the message to them!
In 2020, Trump won my home county in Pennsyltucky by 65%. In others, 78%.
Trump won Waushara and Washington Counties, Wisconsin by 2/3. St. Clair County, Michigan by 64%.
I live in Waushara County, WI. Yes, there are a lot of tRump signs around, especially in farm fields, which makes no sense to me. But the Dems around here, who have long been timid due to fears of being overwhelmed, are speaking out and stepping up, running for office and ready to vote!!!
Great. Need cheeseheads for Kamala. Big day today, Voter registration.
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Susan, our next door neighbor, a former R (now I) county commissioner, has a Harris/Walz sign out. It is important that Ds prevail. We were at our haircuts yesterday and it owned by a married gay couple who feel, naturally, threatened by Rs. Our hair person actually refused to rebook a client who was too up front about how she felt. It is difficult for them, running a business.
Good for your hairdresser friend to refuse the business. It IS legal to do that. If someone offends you, you can say, "thanks but no thanks". I am sorry they had to do that (business is not easy to come by these days) but glad they were able to stand firm and tell those who offend them to take a walk.
He didn't actually say anything, just refused to rebook her and she knew why. The people who come to the shop know that he and Eddie are married, but MAGAs often have to somehow be in your face. This is why so many of them love death star; they have carte blanche to be openly hateful. I was in education for many years and had to keep politics (and religion) to myself. I also had to contend now and then with parents who were problems, but I had to be tactful.
There is a huge difference between "I believe you are wrong" and "I hope you are wrong". I hope I am wrong TOO! I certainly do not want to lose the Senate. But I am also someone who looks closely at the data and interprets it using the appropriate available facts. There is NOTHING I can see on the horizon that suggests I am wrong. If you KNOW something I don't, please let me know. Anecdotal stuff about souvenir shops in Texas? Not really all that classifiable as evidence, y'know. So if you said "I hope you are wrong" I would strongly agree with you. If you say "I believe you are wrong", I go back to suggesting that you must be smoking something LOL, but please do not take offense... it is not personal, it is just a reality-based view of politics in 2024.
And I am not even THINKING about the crap the GOP can throw if they lose. That will be a whole 'nuther discussion. But let's wait until we get there. I can only deal with one catastrophe at a time LOL! :-)
Actually Georgia was rated a toss-up in 2020 and the Dems managed to oust two very bad GOP candidates. But the big difference (IF you are interest in logic and not just passion) is that Georgia was a split state by population, with a LARGE black population (and one of the Senate candidates, Raphael Warnock, was black if you remember). It typically has margins like 5% between GOP and Democratic. That put any state-wide race (as opposed to races in the districts which are highly gerrymandered) as a relative toss-up. Montana is NOTHING AT ALL like that. Typically, it has 10-15% swings TOWARDS GOP candidates including Trump when he has been on the ballot. Tester got lucky because he ran in 2012 (when Obama won the Presidency) and then again in 2018 during the non-presidential election year when the so-called "blue wave" hit the US. But THIS year Trump IS on the ballot (and polls show him leading in Montana by his typical 10+% point margins. Tester is seriously in trouble and the polls show that clearly.
I am sorry, I am a computer software engineer and I tend to look at data, not emotions. Emotions CAN change things but rarely, mostly data works best. And the data for Montana suggests a 5+% GOP win in the Senate. I'd be happy to make or take a bet on that. Willing to bet $100 that the GOP candidate will win by at least 5%.
For me, if you seriously think there is a chance that Tester can win, you should be willing to take that bet, but I doubt anyone (at least anyone who is in their right mind) would.
Again, I sure hope I am wrong. I do NOT want to concede the Senate to the GOP insanity again (hopefully not McConnell this time, but my guess is he will try to hold on to his power from the last time). But if I have to place a bet, it certainly will be on the GOP.
Jon Rosen, I don't disagree with you, but being "realistic" about our chances is discouraging for me. If I am to be disappointed, I'll save it for after the elections. For now I will continue to work my ass off in hope that it will make a difference. Dewy-eyed idealism has accomplished much.
I am happy for you and of course hope you can change things. I felt that way for many years until Reagan won in 1980. Sigh, that was an eye-opener. Carter was still one of the best Presidents we ever had and he was screwed by the GOP. Oh well, I will probably never get over that one. Anyway, as I have said, I hope you are right and I am wrong. Stranger things have happened in the past LOL. Just not often enough, sigh.
I read or listened to so many things today so I don't remember where it was I learned of the discouraging news about Montana and the effect that losing the Senate will have on the federal court system. While Biden has been able to appoint a number of judges and one justice, many lower court judges will be retiring soon. To prevent a President Harris from appointing judges and justices McConnell would pull a Garland and not allow any confirmations to proceed.
I follow Simon Rosenberg's work and philosophy. Do More Worry Less. And frankly your outlook is a very small piece of the overall political picture for the past 9 years.
This is not doomsday posting. It is serious analysis and it is NECESSARY if everyone is to be clear-headed. Passion does NOT win elections. Brains and facts and effort win elections. And reality is always a good thing to keep in mind. I suggest that your invitation be politely declined. You are certainly entitled to your opinion here, but I pay for my privilege to post here too and I do NOT represent the enemy, I am your FRIEND, and trust me I will NEVER vote for anyone who even comes close to a MAGAt but I still feel it is important to TELL THE TRUTH, not cover it up with opinions that do not hold up to careful analysis.
Reagan started it with his conjuring up the "welfare queen draining the Treasury," turning the mentally ill out onto the streets, waging war on the Middle Class and giving massive tax breaks to the wealthy, resulting in his admin tripling the national debt and leading to the present $35 trillion debt. Our schools failed to teach critical thinking skills, making G.W. Bush's famous statement true: "You can fool some of the people all of the time, and those are the ones you want to concentrate on." So, the oligarchs went to the airwaves and the print to pay for the spread of disinformation and outright lies. The result? Today 806 billionaires have wealth equal to that of one-half of the American population (163,000,000). We now have an oligarchy and a virtual non-existent Middle Class. When my generation passes on (I'm 84), what's left?
Yes DMS I so agree with you. While donating helps,we hope, in getting the message out on the importance of this election the most important is getting as many as possible out to vote and that they are committed to Vote Blue up and down this ticket because there is too much work to do to set the course straight to truly save democracy. The struggle will never be over, but we can lessen the success of authoritarian takeover. Also be alert for any movement in local and National that is attempting voter suppression and share that with friends and family, because when you lose your vote, you lose everything.
If you donate to Movement Voter Project, they will run the algorithms and put your money where it is needed most! Everyone giving to one candidate 1 day and another the next does not put the $$ where it is necessarily needed at this or that point in time, AND they pay their workers which developes a ground
Pretty much every paragraph of Heather's letter today should be amplified, separately, on our social media accounts. She is giving us the material for concise informational posts and the links to back them up - that if the million plus of us were actually taking the time to pass them on, would do a whole lot more than simply hoping the larger media will cover these points.
Well, she posted - as always - a link to the source. If you listen to it and don't agree with her, fine, but calling it a lie is both disingenuous and uncivil. That matters to me because I come here for the civility in this community. it's usually a welcome escape from the rampant ranting and irrational incivility of other platforms.
Steve, I heard Vance's statement on MSNBC, but didn't hear anything about it on CBS or my local news. I am appalled what Trump and Vance are getting away with. Inciting violence should be a crime and Vance should be charged. Trump was charged for January 6th, but still nothing has come of that due to a whole bunch of ridiculous legal mumbo-jumbo. If Harris or Walz or Biden had done any of what Trump and Vance have been doing in the past month or so, there would have been a huge outcry and every media outlet would have been screaming for them to resign or be impeached. Vance should be censured in the Senate, but it won't happen because Republicans cannot hold anyone in their pathetic party responsible for anything, well, except ?Santos, a complete fraud and they didn't even want to do that.
I am assuming you are talking about Santos LOL. And yes, if so, you are right, he was SO outlandish (not to mention he was gay and lied about being Jewish) he was a convenient "see, we dropped him from our party, we aren't THAT bad" except of course they (the GOP) ARE that bad and Santos was just a useful distraction... "pay no attention to that man behind the curtain" :-).
Phil, that immunity thing is supposed to be only when in office and when the act is called "official." Trump does not meet any of those criteria now, but it won't matter. The SC must owe Baby Donnie and will pay him dearly while screwing our nation. Sweet deal for them because they have lifetime appointments so they can do whatever they want and no one will supposedly be able to stop them. A Democratic victory up and down the ballot in every state would stop them.
That is just wild crazy fantasy. There is literally no way there will be Democratic victories up and down the ballot in every state. The sooner you become realistic about politics, the better off you AND our nation will be. Trying the fantasize results that are simply not possible let alone probable is a waste of time and energy. There ARE realistic outcomes that we can work towards. My HOPE is to focus on (a) Harris winning the presidency, (b) A small number of NY and CA House districts that swung away from the Ds to the GOPs in 2022 giving the GOP the House will swing back giving the Dems again a 5-10 vote majority in the House and (c) ONLY losing the two Senate seats that seem virtually certain, West Virginia (Manchin's seat) and Montana (Tester's seat) and holding everything else including Sherrod Brown in Ohio, which will mean the GOP edge in the Senate will only be one seat, 51-49, since 50-50 with a Democrat in the VP spot means the Democrats still control the Senate. If by some VERY lucky chance the Dems can win either in Texas or Florida, that would be a major miracle and of course a 50-50 Senate would be HUGE for us. Let us pray it can happen, but be realistic. There will NOT be any SWEEP of the country, no matter how much you dream and wish and fantasize about it. IT. JUST. WON'T. HAPPEN. Sorry, that's just the truth.
Absolutely! I just think trying to set a goal of winning across the board up and down ballot is unrealistic. Focus on what is possible and maybe a few improbable elections will fall out way. Trying to win everything runs the risk of spreading ourselves too thin and losing too much.
Oh Jon, please don't do the work of the MAGAts and Russians for them. Nobody thought the "Blue Wave" would happen. But it did, against all expectations.
That, Ruth, and/or impeachment! The House can vote to impeach Supremes and the senate can convict and remove them from office. But we’d need that full ballot blue to do so.
I am with you on the class action lawsuit by the residents of Springfield, Ohio against the Trump campaign. I read earlier today that Trump, Vance et al have" swatted" the city of Springfield by throwing out this vicious and vile( and also totally untrue) rhetoric against the Haitian community there. As a resident of Ohio, I am beyond outrage that this is happening in my state and is being orchestrated by a Senator here who is supposed to be representing my and my fellow Ohioans best interests.J D Vance along with his boss is totally unfit to serve.
I've been wondering if I, a normal US citizen, could bring a lawsuit against Trump, for pain and suffering. I think it would be fabulous if millions of us could bring a class action lawsuit against him for this. Let's use his own tactics against him, keep delaying the case and keep him fighting it for years. I am SO TIRED of his shit! And in case anyone is wondering, NONE of the people who are truly against him want to see him assassinated. Because then he will be considered a martyr by his followers, and they will keep his vile hatred going forever.
Let's not get bogged down in this stuff. This stuff is the effort of Republicans to deflect from their abysmal record of working for the American people and their lack of a clear agenda.
Steve, and everyone, for God's sake, please stop blaming the good guys. Merrick Garland is not just one of the good guys, he is also competent, and being good doesn't mean your competent, or vice versa. My point is that mocking him is helping the bad guys. And a class action lawsuit? How well has that worked so far?
The law is a useful tool if used with discretion, but its purpose is to constrain in lieu of control society, and it only works if enough of us have the wisdom to constrain our own ignorance. The more people there are that refuse to constrain their own ignorance, the less effective is the law.
Constraining our own ignorance is the only way to make the world a better place. And we are heading in the opposite direction when our ignorance is unconstrained.
To clarify: I am "constraining my own ignorance" when I see a disagreement with another individual or group as a dilemma that, if important enough, is worthy of a multi-step resolution. Conversely, if I see the disagreement as a problem with a one-step "I'm right, you're wrong, and this conversation is over" solution, then my ignorance is unconstrained. So, it's not hard to tell if someone is trying to resolve dilemmas or merely trying to solve problems.
"Be angry, but do not let the sun go down on your anger." —Ephesians 4:26.
It’s one thing to express your opinion. It’s another thing to claim I am “ignorant”. You just earned a block. Perhaps you’ll grow up someday and learn how to give people more respect the you appear capable of giving people today.
The question is not whether an individual is ignorant or not. We are all ignorant. No matter how much an individual knows, there’s a lot more that the individual does not know. The question for all of us is whether we are willing to constrain our own ignorance.
I have no problem with anyone criticizing my opinions, just take the time to understand what you’re criticizing. If I did have that problem, THEN I would be immature. In other words, one of us must learn how to give people more respect than they appear capable of giving today. It’s just that you've left me with the opinion that that person is not me.
Bottom line is that I can dish it out when I think it's important enough, and I'm mature enough to take it. Or does a block mean Steve doesn't see my comments?
His admission should be “above the fold” stories in all media. Please demand your media and individual journalists to make it a top priority story. That lie is causing calls for violence. That is unacceptable from a candidate for public office.
Steve, thank you for your comment. Criticisms of Trump and MAGA are easy to write but have no real effect on the election. We need ideas for "Action" and yours is one of them. The race is too close. There is no assurance that Harris wins.
Action Item: make one phone call today. Just one. Convince somebody to register, volunteer for something, or tell your state legislator you want them to do something.
I am mystified as to why people making bomb threats against schools and public buildings think that's a statement against the Haitian residents of Springfield. Instead, those threats reveal a normalization of criminal thugs, bullies, liars, and cheats eager to take over our civic life, exemplified by Trump and Vance.
Trump admitted to the Daily Beast that he lost the 2020 election, and Vance admitted on CNN that he deliberately lied about Haitians and pets.
Trump and Vance are actively abdicating their responsibilities as American citizens and political leaders. Instead, they seek power by any means possible, regardless of who gets hurt in the process.
Remember: when Democrats and like-minded people vote for Democrats, Democrats win. When Dems and like-minded others don't vote, Republicans win. Let's Get Out the Vote for Democrats up and down the ballot!
Sometimes violence cannot be reasonably avoided, but it's never good. Bullying, whether with words or bullets, is never good, but it seems to be a lifestyle for many. I have seen many indications that the US is seen in many other parts of the world as an excessively violent culture, even if they recognize that is not the whole story. The obsessive gun culture seems to me a manifestation of a deeper cult of legitimizing violence. Vicious slander against a minority is very much a form of violence. Depriving people of their legitimate share of representation and access to the vote is a form of violence. Depriving people of medical care is violence. Greed is a form of violence; that's what makes it greed.
J L Graham, yes, the effect of parental and governmental neglect is suffering. It is all violence against the right to dignity and the sanctity of life.
There is a lot to ponder here, JL. My perspective on violence while I was working was that I viewed my ability to utilize violence in defense of others was a gift to be used to defend those who cannot use violence themselves. To use violence for the sake of self-gratification is an abomination, and there is far, far to much glorification of that.
As I say, some applications of violence are the only reasonable choice such as shooting the sniper that was shooting at Trump. It was the right choice is those circumstances. At the same time, there were apparently avoidable lapses of vigilance that might have prevented the danger for reaching that point. The Secret service was wise to scout ahead in the latest attempt om Trump. When a "fire" is in progress it has to be stopped. I greatly respect those who fight to protect the rights of others.
And also, violence takes many forms. Misogyny, racism, homophobia, any breach of "unalienable" human rights. Some bullies make being a bully a point of pride. Trump does, and I think he calls that forward in his followers, a streak of grandiose cruelty.
These bomb threats against schools make no sense at all...but then neither do most school shootings. I think some people use the perception of extreme events to act out and perform their own extreme events...or just play sick jokes on people with no intention of really setting a bomb. Talk is cheap....
and yes, Trump and Vance have totally abdicated any responsibility to be real leaders with any sense of morality, fairness or decency. They have become rabid political animals with a feral strategy.
Mike, as I see it, the purpose is to sow chaos—and to make people afraid that they’ll be accused of things if they speak up—kind of a political “swatting”. Look at how easily some people (Laura Loomer) toss around the word “treason” against Democrats, suggesting that they should be executed.
I agree. That's why I want to start an "Historians for Harris...because FACTS Matter" movement. How do you fight against that ? Facts don't matter...you start to look REALLY absurd...at least to people we may be able to motivate for Harris.
The article mentions Laura Loomer came close to winning the primary for FL11. A breath of fresh air comes from the Villages Democratic Club videos like https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fKDkqqDiFkw
I believe Democrats should never leave a seat uncontested, always have a candidate such as Barbie Hall running for the seat no matter what the odds
Butchering our children with weapons of war, blowing them up with bombs, makes perfect sense to criminals we see clearly, right before us. The viral pace at which trumps mental illness has spread exponentially, is paralyzing our sane leaders as to what the hell to do about it! Our children have become their chosen 'weapons of war', and we are left with no choice until we bury them in November. Welcome to the history books friends!
“Don’t let the BEST get in the way of the GOOD! That’s one of the best things to say to people who are unsure what to do now as for voting wisely. Example: It is best that your children, and grandchildren go to school each day not being subject to being slaughtered so JD Vance can “create stories” to get them killed. It is BEST that we get the bi-partisan border bill back on the table. How is it best that trump orders it not passed in order to get his miserable way? How!?
Despite the size of MAGA, It think it is easier to spot the difference between it ideal choice and the worst choice, but it can require wisdom to see the better of two mixed bag choices. You gotta look at enough of the forest as well as the trees.
For some decades now the Republican MO has been to put party loyalty above all else, and to severely limit dissent within the party. The whole party turns of those who stray too far from orthodoxy. With rare exceptions, it would be thought OK to burn the nation to the ground so long as one of their own leading lights struck the match; so strong is the grip of cult thinking. .
Trump's economic fantasies far worse than even Reagan's. Republican tax cuts are boosting plutocratic meddling in our society, and curtailing services that we desperately need. Someone besides HCR should be taking about the legacy of Smoot-Hawley.
Laurie, if you have the legal right to vote, then you are voting. And when you vote, you send a message to elected officials. In 2024, casting a ballot for a Republican is voting for someone to blame, as long as it's not the person I see in the morning when I look in the mirror. Casting a ballot for a Democrat is supporting the coin that has freedom on one side and responsibility on the other side. Staying home on election day is voting for someone to blame, as long as it's not the person I see in the morning when I look in the mirror.
When reading frumps post “I HATE TAYLOR SWIFT”, I hear the screech of a snot nosed tantrum throwing boy in a sand pit throwing toys and bawling after the girl he tries to bully pushes him face first into the dirt.
This is not the behaviour of a wanna be world leader. It is a telling, pathetic display of unfitness.
Diana I think it was a signal, a call to his maggots, giving permission to harm Taylor Swift. Just like he called upon Russia to find the 30,000 Clinton emails and they followed through for him. These are examples of how Trump will employ others to hurt his enemies and critics if he is (God forbid!) elected again. It is hard to understand how he has not been and is not being prosecuted for this behavior. WTF
Yes maybe. As far as a snot nosed tantrum can appeal to his base.
I’m in a continuing state of bafflement about the polls being so close. Suggesting that nearly half of American voters find something appealing in him. I mean, he’s a vile, weak and cowardly troublemaker. This is not a choice between worthy opponents. It’s a slam dunk for anyone else but him. It just so happens that the Dems have put up a person who is on the top of the pile. She’s nearly perfect.
The Pope called both candidates equally "evil". Ask the AMA how many potentially savable people likely died because Trump politicized COVID precautions (and we're not done with it)? How violent an act is it to take away and lock up small children of immigrant families, a large number of which have yet to be returned? Why are so many reluctant to call Trump way, way over the line?
J L Graham, I was so disgusted by his words. He has been brave and progressive in some of his other views and I have cheered. Not with this comment about the race. Good grief. WTH Wake up and think logically. Put "bad" on a continuum. Violence against his citizens bad, bad. really bad. No comparison. See how easy that was.
Yes, me too, Kathy. On the other hand, he has said that abortion isn't the only issue to consider when voting. And he has said it's up to each person's informed conscience how they vote, which is the bedrock of how we must make our decisions. In other words, feel free to disagree with the Pope if and when your (informed) conscience tells you differently. God is your "judge" ultimately, not the pope. Do what you have to before God. (Ofcourse, this is assuming you're not a mentally ill person.)
I appreciate the Pope is in a tough spot politically, but Trump is mad enough to endanger the world, and his his teachings and behavior are hardly those attributed to Jesus. Hate? Cruelty? Violence? Material Greed? Where is that in the equation?
J L Graham, you penned it well why I was so upset by his words. Fear of and anger at tfg are probably why I reacted so strongly to the Pope's comment. I was also surprised, I think. Since he became Pope, he has boldly, courageously spoke and written on a range of topics, forging new, much-needed more progressive paths. It continues to boggle my mind that he can't discern the vast degrees between the two candidates, of suffering they have caused and would cause. And if he can, but is afraid to say, then he should have said nothing.
It's not dementia, Judith, in my understanding of his health. He has made no declaration of infallibility regarding abortion. Furthermore, he has left it to each person's (informed) conscience who to vote for.
As an "auslander" - this statement by the Pope is a tad confusing - I realise that the Pope is unhappy about Kamala's support for abortion, one can only hope that his comments refers to the 2 scourges.
He might well say that Harris holds a position(s?) that he cannot condone, but that Trump has all the earmarks of a fascist, wannabee dictator, or words to that effect. If once considers both candidates truly immoral, abstention is an option, but, in just speaking of past performance, Trumps record guarding human lives, human dignity and the rights of ALL children is a disaster area, and threatens to become far worse, ans=d supposing that narcissistic Trump is the answer to any defense of a moral position is fantasy.
"It is hard to understand how he has not been and is not being prosecuted for <this> behavior." What behavior? We still live in a country with free speech. Everything you mention is covered by the First Amendment to our Constitution. He is an idiot, a buffoon, a jerk. But he IS smart enough (or at least MOST Of the time) to avoid doing overt acts which would be subject to prosecution. He stepped over the boundaries on Jan 6 and in a few other situations (like the Mar Lago boxes of classified documents and his call to Georgia to try to get them to find 11,000 more votes for him) and is being prosecuted for those acts although in Georgia, Fanni Wallis screwed it up totally by her inability to keep her boyfriend's you-know-what in his pants, and of course he managed to get the MOST sympathetic judge in Florida to throw out the Mar Lago case - which almost certainly will be reinstated but it runs out the clock before the election. My point is simply that MOST of the time, he avoids actually committing crimes. He is offensive, repulsive even, but politically he has managed to avoid being criminal MOST of the time. We don't prosecute people for their behavior if it isn't criminal and posting offensive posts on social media is still not criminal behavior in most cases.
He has not avoided committing crimes, the bulk of victims will, in any case, have been defenseless "little people", he has successfully avoided answering for his crimes.
And now he and sidekick Vance aim for power hitherto enjoyed only by kings by divine right, tyrants and dictators like Hitler, Stalin and Mao; power guaranteed by "Justices" parachuted into the Supreme Court for the specific purpose of replacing the Republic by a made-to-measure oligarchic tyranny shored up by official State religion.
Charles Manson did not actually commit the murders - but he got his followers to do so and was convicted -- I realize that this is not apples to apples - but the parallels of a cult leader encouraging followers to do his bidding, based on a non-existent reality - is striking.
Actually not really. Manson didn't actually commit the murders but he clearly ordered his followers to do them. In that case he gave them very specific instructions on what to do. Also his contacts were personal. The people who committed those crimes on his behalf were living with him and hanging out on a day by day basis. That is a far cry from a political candidate saying things in front of crowds of strangers.
Actual incitement? Yes. But incitement legally has to include statements that people should take actual action, not just protected speech which might inflame someone. So you can NOT say "you all should take torches and burn down the building!" but you CAN say "what goes on in that building is terrible and maybe it deserves to be burned down". The former is incitement, the latter is just highly disturbing free speech. Read Trump's comments carefully and I challenge you to find any actual incitement. Just inflaming people's feelings is NOT incitement. It is expected that people will NOT respond to such inflammatory comments, as long as they aren't being incited to actual actions that would be illegal.
Yes, I know, it doesn't always make sense, but I studied this subject in law school and it didn't always make sense to me either, but I do understand our severe insistence on keep speech free (and I applaud that).
We lived in different times just 8-9 years ago. We expected different (and better) conduct from our leaders. Trump has clearly made a mess of that, but it doesn't change the fact that most of the time (Jan 6 being the clearest exception) he has stayed within the lines (if only barely).
I just read several articles about the Pope's comments on the two candidates. He did not call them "equally evil" though he criticizes both for what he considers "evil" stances. What he said is that he counsels voters to vote for the one they consider the "lesser evil". Not a whole lot better than "equally evil" but also not as absolute as you present it. Every article title I saw in my search results specifically includes the phrase "lesser evil".
The BBC article quotes the Pope as saying "You must choose the lesser evil. Who is the lesser evil? That lady, or that gentleman? I don't know. Everyone, in conscience, (has to) think and do this." https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/crkdmdg78jgo
"nearly half of American voters find something appealing in him"
It is hard to believe that there is that much white resentment festering in the general population. But it is there. And the Groper-in-Chief has made himself the face and the voice of the Make America White Again crowd.
First we have Musk and his "text rape" with his comment to Taylor Swift about giving her a baby. Then you have Vance and his comments about VP Harris and her safety and then last, and possibly just as dangerous you have the Sheriff of Portage County and his very Hitler like statement about Harris/Walz campaign signs.
"Musk has turned into"??? Seriously? Musk has ALWAYS been a despicable person, in virtually everything he has ever done, starting with Tesla and including his withdrawing communications from Ukranian military in the height of their war against Russia. He is a disgusting corrupt man who has managed to pull the wool over almost everyone's eyes. If you are just now learning this, you haven't been paying attention much.
Actually, I have been paying attention, and his withdrawing communications from Ukrainian military in the height of their war against Russia was - as you state - just one of his abominable acts, according to the motto: money spoils character. It's just a question whether there was actually any character to begin with
When Senator Vance's bool-sheet statements -- like those of the 'creole crisis' that he has created --inevitably arise in the Veep debate, I suggest that Governor Walz start each response to some mis-truth by saying, "There are two parts to my response. First, ¡liar liar -- Vance on fire! Now with respect to the matter [or the truth] of the matter raised . . . ."
In view of the assassination intent nipped in the bud before it became an attempt against the former President, this statement sounds cynical on my part. The thought crosses my mind that the violent rhetoric that has led to this second incident comes far more from the Trump ticket. E.G., take the drumpfing of a popular starlet, s.v.p.: "I HATE TAYLOR SWIFT!" This trumper tantrum arguably could be taken as a coded message to threaten or even harm Miss Swift.
My thoughts on this "attempted assassination" are far more cynical than yours. It was immediately followed by an appeal for donations. As was the previous "attempt." Has anyone seen the medical report about Trump's ear? Forgive me for sounding like a conspiracy theorist, but I can't help wondering if the bleeding ear was either a self-inflicted scratch or just some theatrical blood. And if this most recent story is just more of the same. If you want to be safe, you choose safe places for rallies, and you don't expose yourself to danger by golfing close to public roads while your golf course is open to the public. If it smells fishy...
Yeah, you really need to get off the "conspiracy" meds :-). Look, I hate this crap as much as you do, but seriously, do you think EITHER of these alleged assassins would put their lives and futures in jeopardy by staging attempted assassinations? Even if he promised them he would give them pardons when he is elected, what if he isn't elected? Do you seriously think these two random guys would put their futures in jeopardy on the hope that Trump would get elected?
That, at the least, seems very far-fetched. As has been proven time and time again, assassination attempts are virtually always solo attempts by deranged people who decide to take matters into their own hands. Conspiracy virtually NEVER has anything to do with it, at least not since the Lincoln assassination which was indeed a group of conspirators. But these two attempts against Trump? Stop worrying about whether he was really bleeding from his ear. He was, and everything that has been recorded seems to prove it.
In the end, no one, not even Trump, deserves to die at the hands of a murderer or assassin. If you disagree with me, then you are clearly not a very serious American.
Jon Rosen, false flags have been used over and over again as propaganda techniques throughout histiory then and now by dictators. Putin more than once, is an example. Who knows what the truth is, but when a person believes that another has shown a definite pattern of using propaganda, lies to create fear, anger, and them as the victim, with sermingly no bottom or even a scintilla of decency , well it's not so outrageous that some may wonder.
Betsy, you do know that Tale of Two Cities is a NOVEL, not a HISTORY? Its fiction. The medical report on Trump's ear, like all medical reports, is private information that the patient has to make public voluntarily and Trump has never done that with anything so I wouldn't expect it now. But implying that we can't see it is evidence that there is something suspicious in it would be wrong, IMHO, as EVERYONE should be entitled to the protection of HIPAA laws (even Trump).
And I am very glad for your last sentence. Me too.
Jon, I know the difference between a novel and history. I also know that there have always been people willing to do for a leader or an ideal. Depending on where you're standing, they're either terrorists or freedom fighters
B.L.U.F.: excellent refutation, Jon, to what unfortunately is a straw-man argument on your part. So, I welcome your argument, if not agree with your hostility.
While I agree with you, Jon, Betsy was not necessarily asserting a conspiracy. She simply said that the thought of conspiracy had crossed her mind for certain reasons. Yes, a conspiracy crossed my mind, too; I then, like you, dismissed it.
The former President and his side bar, the junior Senator of Ohio, are using deceit systematically to "create" alternate facts even outright fictions to garner support for their demagogy.
¿Why would the idea of a deceit-via-conspiracy not cross the minds of reasonable people? Such supposed deceit would comport with the campaigns of deceit waged by candidate Trump and Senator whatever-his-name-is-this-week.
EDIT: M. Tree more concisely made the same argument; I had not yet read it when I pecked out my response.
I don’t think tRump was wounded at all in the first attempt. I think the kid with the AR-15 was a terrible shot and killed an adjacent bystander by mistake. Trump was hit by blood splatter from the victim, not a bullet.
Not blood spatter from the victim - they were too far apart. However, I personally think a small wound behind the ear from a shard of the teleprompter seems a realistic possibility. It takes very little to result in lots of blood from a cut on the head, as I know from two episodes earlier in my own life. Small wounds - lots of blood.
Thank you Ned for the link. Each one of the speakers was eloquent and respectful. As each one spoke I wondered if they were screaming internally: “This is absurd! I shouldn’t even need to be here! It is 2024! Laws were changed based on the demands of some self-righteous misogynistic misguided people invoking the name of God—so sure they know God’s thinking—and here I am having to be polite! Lawmakers in my state did not protect the common good with these asinine laws. Why should I have to be here because of fools? Why can’t I scream? Because if ever there was a time to not have to be polite this is it!” I was screaming for them as I heard their stories!
EDIT: D4N, this hearing is seventy-six minutes long (i.e., relatively short). The discussion after the opening statements is heartfelt and details just how brutal this ban really is.
Though I was pro-life for many years, this kind of policy was my basic fear of this issue infecting politics. Hence my long-time hypocrisy openly articulated.
and it'll be interesting how the country bumpkin handles himself when he's facing Walz in the upcoming two candidates for the vp job is held. I have no fear that our man Tim will wipe the floor with the fool from hicksville.
Senator Vance is ego-on-parade; one saw his reaxion on C.N.N. Governor Walz should answer each piece of shimmering scheiße with: "I have to part to my response. First, liar, liar . . . ¡Vance on fire! Now back to [reality OR the question as stated] . . . ." That may be enough to drive the demagogue over the edge into a high-decibel abyss.
'On Thursday, September 12, Vance said on CNBC that if immigration were the path to prosperity, “America would be the most prosperous country in the world.” '
You fool, America IS the most prosperous country in the world. And immigration is one factor in that prosperity.
A number of factors contribute to the success of the United States. An entrepreneurial environment that encourages hard work and long hours certainly helps. But decentralized government, advanced research universities, and favorable regulatory environments also contribute. The United States will likely always be in the top countries by GDP in the world. "
Vance’s internship as irrational and divisive flame thrower is going well, except for the part where he is helping Trump lose. But keep in mind he not Trump is the chosen one of Peter Thiel and other rich tech bros.
Looks to me as though JD Vance is the more dangerous of the two candidates, if only because he has a longer life expectancy. It's time for the Karmic wheel to turn.
There have been some (silly) comments made that Trump's selection of Vance as his running mate was "life insurance". Very well might be somewhat true :-)
So, stochastic terrorism results from public statements inducing violence against a certain sector of the population but without geographic specificity. Direct terrorism is an act of violence against specific individuals or groups of people. What Vance and TFG are doing is pretty close to direct domestic terrorism, as they are targeting a defined group in a specific place. The consequences are both dangerous AND costly. Were I anywhere remotely associated to the effects of their public lies, I'd file both civil and criminal cases against them. I'd wrap them so tight in litigation that it would hurt to breathe. This is yet another unprecedented occurrence in our national politics. Unscrupulous individuals and their supporters are broadcasting injurious lies about groups identified as immigrant without the slightest basis in fact with real, measurable consequences to the public order and safety. Vance, a public official of high office, ought to be at least censured or preferably expelled from the Senate. TFG's secret service protection should be limited to places where they can assure adequate surveillance. Golf clubs, public rallies, campaign stops represent extraordinary service, IMHO. They should admit and define the limits of their ability to offer security. He can stay at the top of Trump Tower for as long as he desires. These two and their trailing crowd of sycophants are stacking civil and criminal misdeeds upon one another with no end in sight. The way we bring this serial set of clown's fire-drills to a close is to deprive them of their audience. Sadly, they seem able to attract an audience BY their behavior, with far too many willing spectators.
Ohio resident here and I agree with you. I also believe the media still are failing to cover the the true motives and consequences of Trump's and Vance's terrorism. My local NBC affiliate in Cincinnati framed horror in Springfield as "debate about immigration".
Be careful what you call "terrorism". It is a strong word and while many of us here might agree with you on concept, as a practical matter you need to do overt acts to actually be a terrorist, and except for the cases already filed against Trump, there is nothing I have seen that would justify that term against Trump. He certainly gives verbal support to people who very well MIGHT be terrorists, but that isn't terrorism itself. We still (thankfully) live in a world with freedom of speech. And Trump, regardless of how disgusting he is (and he is), has those same freedoms, just like you and me.
Agree 111%. These days, I find refraining from the mis-use of language to express emotion increasingly difficult to do. While my feelings parallel those of Kathleen, your call for reason in expression is a timely one. Thank you.
Jon, I want to explore your argument. When I read the 45th president's invitation to his adherents to travel to Washington DC for the January 6th events -- "...will be wild..." I thought I probably knew what he meant. As the events unfolded on Jan 6, it turned out that I, as well as many others, had understood his words perfectly. Later, in the wake of the events on Jan 6, when people were analyzing what happened, one observer offered the analogy of a mafia don giving instructions to one of his foot soldiers, with a wink and a nod, using no words that could be used against him in court. But the foot soldier understood exactly what he was asked to do.
If I, as a common citizen, had exhorted my followers to travel to W,DC to try to disrupt the proceedings of the Electoral College on Jan 6, the consequences would surely have been nil, nada, zilch. The consequences of free speech for me, compared to the consequences of free speech for the president, or any other high-profile public citizen, would surely be very different. I would argue, therefore, that I should be found innocent of a criminal conspiracy to violently overthrow the government of the United States, while the sitting president, who used precisely the same language, should not be given a pass.
To put it another way, in this scenario, I should enjoy immunity from prosecution, but the (former) president should not enjoy that same immunity. In stochastic terrorism, the implication is that there is no obvious direct coupling between the call to arms, and actual instantiation of taking up arms. The timing and the particulars of the event are made known by the architect or chief planner, but there is no obligation on the part of anyone to act on the instigator's instructions. So perhaps it could be seen as inadequate or imprecise to refer to the former president's behavior as "domestic terrorism" or similar accusations. Maybe we need a better, more accurate description. Either way, the effect of the former president's speech and behavior on the American people is the same. Many people are afraid to speak out about the former president's wrong-doing, for fear of retaliation by his followers. Whenever he wants something to happen in this regard, he and his followers understand each other well enough that things will happen as a consequence of his words and actions.
The former president should not be held to a lower standard. Immunity is a lower standard. The President should be held to a higher standard. The President should challenge the American people to act and become more ethical, to strive to demonstrate more exemplary behavior. The former president's errant ways need correction. Like, in a house of correction.
Well I respect your arguments but I think they are wrong. We do NOT in this country hold the President to a higher standard, at least with respect to speech. We are all citizens and we are all entitled to the SAME protections under the law. As for his comments on Jan 6, it clearly was a borderline situation, but he did NOT join the mob, just as a mafia don doesn't join the execution. But that is what insulates him. He did make mistakes though, when he made actual comments to the Georgia leaders encouraging them to violate the law by "finding" him extra votes. And for those, he was indicted.
I'll give him some credit. He has managed to demonstrate how flaws or inadequacies in our system can provide opportunities for a "domestic enemy" to take advantage of poorly-educated citizens, by using them to undermine various aspects of our society that depend on trust and good faith. It is difficult to know whether he is cunningly evil, or a bumbling rich kid who always managed to get away with his misdeeds and mistakes. In my view he is clearly not an asset to our nation. His effect on the body politic has been deleterious. He is clearly not a brilliant scholar who knows how to lead the American People to lofty heights of achievement in matters that would tend to ensure our long-term survival as a nation and a species. He has not encouraged the American People how to avoid rhetorical and logical fallacies in our daily discourse. He has not encouraged us to study and learn the history of our nation. We could argue that our founding authors did not intend our nation to become a free-for-all no-holds-barred struggle to see who comes out on top, in terms of wealth and power. He is a deeply-flawed human who should not be leading us. He is ill-prepared and unfit to lead us. But to his credit, he has shown us that somebody like him could lead us to our dissolution, without actually succeeding in that endeavor himself. Having already succeeded in that regard, we don't need to give him another opportunity to teach us the same lesson again. We don't need to repeat First Grade. Once is more than enough.
Great talking points, but virtually impossible to accomplish. (1) you as a private citizen can't file criminal charges against anyone. Civil cases you can file to your heart's content, but be prepared to actually have a case and be able to pay for it to the bitter end. (2) The Senate requires 2/3 vote to censure or expelled from the Senate. Not going to happen. The Democrats can barely muster a majority to pass anything and if they got close, the GOP would filibuster. (3) the law requires providing Secret Service protection. They can't decide to not provide it because they don't like where he goes. Again, to change that would require passing a new law about protection and the GOP House which can't even pass a budget bill isn't going to withdraw SS protection from Trump.
Its all great talking points, but sadly you have nothing substantial that could actually happen.
I am sorry if you don't like reading facts. That is all I presented above. And actually I expect I would be a very BAD troll LOL. It would be hard to hide anything I sincerely believe in.
That is a ridiculous, offensive, and, possibly, anti-Semitic slur, Margaret. Utterly unfounded. One thing for sure: a different opinion does not make for a troll.
Jon and I butt heads all the time and I often have to take a deep breath to keep my my wits. Nevertheless, while hostile at times, Jon's arguments are well thought out and reasonable; often I find them persuasive.
Jon, you might benefit from being less aggressive in some of the words you choose. AND I welcome your arguments and appreciate the time you must be spending to devise them. Thank you, Sir.
I apologize. I did not realize this was anti-Semitic nor did I intend it to be. Jon's arguments are well-thought-out, and also hostile. Perhaps he is looking for a negative reaction. He got it. A troll is someone who, regardless of their opinion, incites anger, defeatism, and (possibly over-) reaction.
I did not think so; thank you for clarifying your intentions. While Jon can be difficult, his abrasiveness does NOT make him a troll. Saying something that attacked you rather than your argument would make him a troll.
Gary, it is likely impossible to trace the source of his weapon as I read from news reports that it had the serial number ground off. It was an illegal weapon from the get-go.
Wow … where to bring. Haitian immigrants story; I’m trying to find a source of something I read from a former Naval Officer I served with; The Haitians that came to Ohio to rebuild & reinvigorate the economy was approved by US DoS in 2017 (on trump’s watch).
Abortion story is sad, tragic… I urge everyone to read a story coming out in the October Atlantic magazine on who Docs are struggling with restrictions & how they have to or had to turn away women in medical distress.
It took only one death in Ireland to finally rid themselves of an abortion ban.
"Death of Savita Halappanavar
The death of Savita Halappanavar led to protests in 2012 calling for changes to Ireland's abortion laws and a highly public investigation by the Health Service Executive. After a miscarriage had been diagnosed, she was denied an abortion because the foetus's heart was still beating. She developed sepsis and died. The HSE enquiry found that her death was a result of inadequate assessment and monitoring and a failure to adhere to established clinical guidelines, and made several recommendations, including legislative and constitutional change."
Tragic and bogus as the Haitian migrants lie is, it must be pointed out that Vance did *not* actually "admit to Dana Bash tat he had created the story of Haitian immigrants eating pets." When she sought to clarify that very point, i.e., whether he had made the story up, Vance insisted, 'no, it is true, what I mean by 'created' is that MMM has refused to cover the story so we have 'created a buzz', i.e., a story out of it. His intended meaning of 'created a story' was, he claims, 'forced it into the public eye'. This is not to defend Vance or the story by any means, it is simply to make sure we are fair to the context. The story is certainly fabricated, by neo-Nazis originally, but that does not mean that what Vance meant to say/claim in his interview with Bash can be mis-represented in our reporting, as if he "admitted" to blatantly fabricating the story. Misinterpreting him will only get us into trouble and complicate the debate, and wind up giving fodder to the false narrative by making us look like the ones spinning false narratives who can't get our stories straight. Sorry to be so forthright, but must get the details straight here. See PBS Politics Monday https://youtu.be/35ymt0yTbxs
RCharles Weller, respectively, you are wrong. PBS's video of the exchange between Dana Bash and Vance was edited signifigantly (for time, I imagine and hope) and so I understand how you could arrive at your conclusion.
PLEASE, I urge you to watch the CNN video of their exchange, easily found on YouTube. I watched it yesterday midday by myself prior to any reporting on the interview. In its entirety, you will see him realize, he has just publicly admitted he is lying because he pauses for a long, long, time and Dana states 3 times that you just said you made up the story. And he does all sorts of stalling, he pretends he didn't hear her question, then he gets angry and blames her. These are techniques of liars: stall to gain time to figure out what they should say next, never take responsibility for lying, deflect the conversation away from their wrongdoing when caught in a lie, often by yelling, raising their voice (imtimidation), blame the other person for their behavior of lying. He hit them all. Every single one of them. I tell you this from my personal experience of being in a long term relationship with a pathological liar.
He lied to propagate fear and anger for political gain with no concern for people's safety. He admitted that his claim was a lie publicly in the interview with Dana. He slipped up. So Plan B of liars took effect.
I agree with your assessment of the whole interview, M. Tree. Boy does Governor Walz have some lead in his boxing gloves for the vice presidential debate when this matter comes up: "Liar, liar . . . ¡Vance on fire!"
The only thing the M.A.G.A. V.P. candidate proved TO ME ALONE, in my mind, with that interview: that the junior (varsity) Senator of Ohio is better referred to as Senator shady J.D. Pants . . . on fire.
Thanks, MTree, not again that I’m interested in defending Vance here, but a pause and thinking are not absolute ‘evidence’. He claims the story is true and that what he meant by “created” was not ‘lying’, so to say he “admitted” to making up the story, period, does not adequately represent what he claimed to have said. In such a case we need to make clear the basis of our assertion, which in such a case would be something like ‘his pausing & fumbling proves he was lying.’ What really needs to be done is to press him to cite, clearly and specifically, the evidence he is basing his claims on, tie it properly to prior neo-Nazi propaganda, demonstrate its complete inadequacy to support the kind of claim he is making, and buttress that with the kind of counter evidence 100Panthers has highlighted about 500,000 Haitian immigrants in Florida and elsewhere across the country who are not eating up cats and dogs everywhere. Heather did some of this in an earlier post quite well, and she’s very accurate typically, but i do think here we need to be very clear and careful about precisely what Vance “admitted” and what he didn’t, within the full context of the interview.
RCharles Weller, I understand and agree that we shouldn't rush into judge people. I try hard not to do that. Instead, I watch and listen carefully to the person with my own eyes and ears, I look at patterns in their past behavior, and I compare it to the learning experiences in my life. He's a high level politician. Do you really think he has to try hard to get the media to listen to him? Come on now. He has BS layered on BS. What do you think his motive was for starting this rumor (that he claims isn't rumor, even though it has been a trope against others for centuries, a political ploy)? Genuine concern for his fellow human beings? OR. Inciting fear and anger as political strategy?
Very generally speaking, M Tree, you are using a valid form of argumentation. The problem is, it is so complex and psychological, and therefore built upon your own interpretation of non-verbal (i.e., non-explicit) ‘signs’ and ‘indicators’, and ultimately requires proving Vance is actually a conscious, *intentional* liar, that it creates an entirely separate deep and complex debate which can never be finally, clearly and unquestionably resolved. We again need to represent fairly and fully the context and then stick to the concrete, clear *historical* facts, as I outlined above.
RC, there is a body of research in controlled environments to assess the behaviors, thought patterns, physical cues, and other observable things to determine if someone is lying or telling the truth. What M Tree describes fits many of the behaviors and "tells" that are noted in the research.
As someone who had both received that training, and had the opportunity to interview people in both stressful and non stressful situations, where people had a vested interest in the outcome and when they did not, what M Tree reports causes me to agree with his assessment.
Ally House (Oregon), the last couple responses, one to you and one to me, from RC seem robotic and somewhat nonsensical. Am I even talking to a real person?
Thank you. As indicated, I generally agree, but this is not what Heather said in her piece, it would require a completely different framing of the issue in order to be accurate and fair to the context.
RCharles Weller, it's not complex. Here's the steps:
1. Observe someone's behavior,
2. Look and see if there are patterns in their past behavior.
3. Use learning experiences in your own life to come to a conclusion about the behavior.
We humans do this all the time, usually unconciously. You seem to be advocating against looking to see if you are being manipulated by someone's ego. As for me, I'll keep being watchful and think on my own about people's behavior. There's a saying, "If you can't see the con, you might be the mark."
My answer to your initial comment applies here, too, RCharles. One difference I have with you and my first comment is that there is not enough time in an interview on a highly segmented Sunday news review show to dive deeply into detail. I agree with you in spirit, RCharles. 🤝
Yet, there is a simpler way to skin that cat . . . ¡oops! That would be for Ms Bash to have requested that Senator Vance send documentation, redacted for identities, to C.N.N. with the pledge that the network would acknowledge, perhaps permit Senator Vance to present, it on the air. ⚖️
Had Ms Bash done this -- and there may very well have been policies not permitting her to do so -- I suspect (unto conviction) that Senator pants on fire would have been hostile and attacked Ms Bash by saying something like, "Don't you tell me how to do my job!" 😡
¿Why the conviction on my part? 🤔
Because, when I was young and before my ego got obliterated rightfully, I was an brat; life and the people in it were nothing more than a game for me to win through the language games of ideology. Senator Vance reeks of that cheapening ambition wherein he ranks as the G-d of a universe of one. 😰
Being far more intelligent and stronger than I, he has advanced a lot further before hitting the bricks as he may be hitting them now. Then the choice, harder to countenance than defeat, comes: ¿do I accept my fallen state and try to re-build my character? 😳
Or, as in the case of candidate Trump showing us every day, ¿do I re-structure the reality around me to re-fashion my fallen state into some more marketable persona? Of course, I am likely reading way too much of me into other people's equation. Vince Lombardi must be turning in his grave. 🤢
Thanks for the clarification! We can not afford to be sloppy with facts especially because they are fabricating 'facts'. LMAO Florida has the largest Haitian population in America (over 500,000) and we have neither seen nor heard such ca ca! We 'got cats and dogs a plenty'!
I appreciate your point. I had an opposing view piece in my Substack feed today that was more cohesive & plausible than much of what we see. What was striking, however, was a complete lack of citation. In critical thinking it's necessary to be able to drill down through echo chambers to see how trustworthy statements of original events. It serves us to be mindful of using precise language. Simply exchanging accusations of "liar, liar" doesn't go anywhere. While it's true there is much that are simple outright lies, it is more informative to know a fuller context of Vance being deliberate misleading. That's the advantage we have, being able to support our opinions, without blind faith in allegations & speculation. It's the difference between celebrity/influencer culture & what we deem authoritive based on merit. It's impossible to avoid the outlandish because our landscape has become truly bizarre, but consistently precise language, as has long been demonstrated in these letters, makes all the difference. It's been a mistake to pull punches, but punches are more effective well & clearly stated. The way I see it, our political fight was previously a choice between optics & substance. Optics & subterfuge gained a lot of ground. I don't think one political party is perfect, but I believe we're now seeing the Democratic party master optics while retaining necessary substance. A long comment to say, I agree, language is important! Lol.
I disagree. Senator Vance knew, at least soon enough, that the 'creole cat crisis' was a rumour and either knew, or shortly found out, that it had been refuted by other Republicans. He elevated rumour to fact and kept it there. What Ms Bash might have done is to have asked him for redacted e-mails or other documentation confirming this activity.
He will likely receive one -- perhaps with a counter-protest -- rural pockets in Northern industrial states have a lot of support for the M.A.G.A. ticket.
That gesture might well pique the sense of decency within the undecideds toward voting for unity. The national audience would be seeing states(wo)manship and leadership in action. Especially in showing good-will toward the harried and compassionate REPUBLICAN mayor of Springfield.
EDIT: And take along embattled incumbent, Senator Sherrod Brown.
I did OK after reading part of it last night. Chose not to read any comments until this morning. The Professor is on west coast time, and I get to go see her tonight in Portland, OR (and meet up with some fellow LFAA University students as well!)
I agree with Steve Brant. Shouldn't it be newsworthy if a candidate for Vice President of the USA declares he made up a lie that then had terrible effects for a town and for its population? Shouldn't the media then be discussing what that means for believing anything that person says?
I would like to know if anyone is tracking whether the story that J D Vance admitted to Dana Bash that the “cats being eaten” story was a lie has made it into any of the major networks’ nightly news broadcasts and/or the front page of any major newspapers.
Given the catastrophic effect this lie has had on Springfield, Ohio … including the cancellation of its cultural festival… I believe (a) this should be Front Page News and (b) the people of Springfield should bring a class action lawsuit against Trump and Vance and (if Merrick Garland *cough cough* has the guts) Trump and Vance should be labeled domestic terrorists.
Which reminds me… isn’t Trump out on bail from Judge Merchan in NYC? Isn’t Trump’s behavior towards Springfield a violation of the terms of his bail? 🤔
Also, to Heather’s point a few days ago… isn’t this all really about trying to scare America into giving the GOP the majority in the Senate so they can shut down anything the Dems want to pass moving forward? In the “event” they lose they want to retain their corrupt Supreme Court and its privileges as well as rollbacks of civil and womens rights. Remember… this election is about supporting and voting for democrats down the line so we can take back our country from these fascists. Same goes for Tester which is the other Dem they’re trying to flip! Vote blue down the line!
And donate to Jon Tester and Sherrod Brown if you can. We need a blue Senate to support the Harris Walz administration.
Thank you -- just donated to Tester, Brown, and the candidates who are running against Boebert and Gaetz and Cruz. I am so sick of these sick people.
Thanks for the encouragement- donated to Allred in TX; put Ruben Gallego in AZ on a monthly because I don’t want to see Kari Lake win in AZ; will add Tester and Brown.
Brava. I have written GOTV postcards to MT and OH voters and contribute what I can to them, urging my niece in Austin to contribute to Allred.
Trisha Calvarese, a grad after a full ride scholarship to John's Hopkins, is running against Boebert.
She would be my representative.
Help if you can, and Tester and Brown as well.
Good to know!
Hopium - Simon Rosenberg on Substack does “down ballot candidates”. I also found the Giving Circle; and With over 70,000 volunteers across the nation, Sister District is one of the largest and most effective progressive grassroots organizations in the country. You can Google It. And https://statesproject.org/get-involved/giving-circles/
Yes!!
Me too!
just donated yesterday
Kunce would be a MASSIVE upgrade for the people of Missouri.
Yes Kunce! Will donate!!!
Tester especially, if PBS news laterly is to be believed. Montana, of "Yellowstone" fame. A month ago it was an even match, but that has seriously slipped since then. There is much to worry about here, this is a defining state for the Senate majority. Plainly something has been going on in Montana. Here's one Montana news source. Seems "nationalization" is the game, and spending is through the roof. https://montanafreepress.org/2024/09/13/political-consultant-laments-nationalization-of-montana-politics/
I really want to see Harris/Walz campign in Montana, specifically to promote Jon Tester.
Both Harris & Walz are the Wrong messengers. Dick Cheney slightly better. The military surrogates and speakers from the convention about the importance of a woman’s freedom are good.
Great point, but sadly I don't think Cheney will be doing any campaigning for Democratic Senate candidate. He might if there was a race in Wyoming, but even then, I expect he would stay out of it.
Near as I can tell, Tester has survived because he's strong, as a farmer i think, on local issues that matter. Both parties have brought "national" issues to the fore, and this seems to be pulling him down in the polls. I doubt if the Cheney's would be much help, considering how Liz got trounced in Wyoming and essentially ejected from the House, where she had been 2nd or 3rd in command. Dems should worry on this, I get the impression.
I saw Tester on Lawrence O'Donnell last night and can't understand how Montana voters can prefer his rival over Tester. Perhaps the polling is skewed. Here's Tester last night on The Last Word https://www.msnbc.com/the-last-word
Are you related to Laura? LOL (just kidding of course, couldn't resist though! Hope you have a decent sense of humor!).
I agree, Cheney will not step in here. He is a Republican for sure, even if his party has been ripped away from him. Tester is losing because of the timing. He won in 2012 when Obama won and then again in 2018, the year of the "blue wave" with no Presidential election to help the GOP. And yes, he is a pretty conservative guy. But this year is a presidential election year and Trump will surge in Montana and that will carry his MAGAt candidate over the finish line ahead of Tester. I would love to see Jon win (I like the way he spells his first name LOL) but I don't think it is likely or even possible.
I expect they will make one or two short trips to Montana but they are crazy if they spend any time there. They need to focus on the swing states where the Presidential race will be decided including of course Pennsylvania. This country will survive Tester losing in Montana. But I do not think it will survive (intact) if Harris loses the Presidency.
Tester is the only REAL farmer in the Senate, folks, and we’ve got climate change. We need a voice for real food, not corporate-made, calorie loaded mush. He’s being attacked by a gazillionaire who’s no farmer! Send all the $5 you can!
Sigh, he is going to lose. Pretty much guaranteed. And your money would be better spent helping Harris and Walz win in the swing states. THAT is what is important, not losing to Trump.
Doing that too—postcards to PA, WI, MI. Agreed about Harris loss, but she has to have as much support as we can summon.
been supporting him for months
I've been donating to Sherrod for months now. CANNOT let Moreno win here. Also donating to many Dems in other states as well as the DNC and Ohio Dems.
To DebbieM and all the others who donate, a huge thank you.
Maybe FL can be flipped. Debbie Mucarsel-Powell running against incumbent Rick Scott.
For those who care about reproductive access, get to know Debbie Mucarsel-Powell. Please donate!
Florida needs her. The USA needs her. Please donate.
Have done anout 100 postcards and will
continue. Cannot believe DeSantis hasn’t shut down FloridaVoteByMsil.
I check the 538 polls to see how far apart they are and if looks reasonable, I donate or donate more
Putin and bots have thumbs on polls. Not sure any can be trusted.
For some reason there is VBM for which you can register by phone, project run by counties in FL. If you have postcards, TonyTheDemocrat will send you addresses, no names but many possible (Valued Voter is my favorite) ones and scripts for whichever county he is covering. I have written several hundred, learning FL counties as I go. If there are 100 others writing and 1000 voters per county responding, we may turn FL!
I did at 3am yesterday!
Reuben Gallegos in AZ as well.
Yes!
Betsy, we have donated to several D campaigns both locally here in Oregon and across the country although our credit union doesn't like us doing too many all at once, so we have to space them out. Unfortunately, the Oregon DMV actually enrolled 306 noncitizens as voters and you can bet, although they are fixing it, that we will hear about how noncitizens are voting.
I know it's tangential, but I would love to hear how your credit union has any say at all about where you spend your money....???
If there is too much activity on the card in a short amount of time, it trips a fraud alert. One time i was Christmas shopping for my husband and I don't waste time, so there were several charges in a short time. They actually called and told him where the charges were! He didn't know what, but he knew where. We also have had some charges that weren't ours and so it's OK, just a pain sometime.
Thanks, Michele - fraud alerts make sense...isn't it great to be able to donate enough - and often enough - to trigger the alerts! Rock on!
Donated to both these senators!
done
Donate to these Must-Keep seats in the U.S. Senate:
Sen. Jon Tester of Montana
www.jontester.com
Sen. Sherrod Brown of Ohio
https://www.sherrodbrown.com/
💙
And Colin Allred ..Texas
Thank you for the information! I saw Tester's ads in Montana recently. They are so strong, clearly there's money behind them. I was really surprised to learn that his Senate seat is in danger.
The other side has money also. The ads are strong, upsetting, and really p*** me off. I am returning from MT to AK today after a week stay. I love MT but racist white male nationalists control ......... and Tester has lived on the land for generations.
Done
Donate to Movement Voter Project- they will put your donation where it is needed most in the down ballot races!!!
Ellie thanks for the links. I used your links and added a tip for Tester and Brown via Act Blue so took less than 2 seconds to do it! It would be great for all of us here to come together each week to do something worthy for a candidate in need. But this is great as well.
Pam, I agree.
thanks for the reminder - just donated to him also
Support stealth candidate Katrina Christiansen, North Dakota, who has a real shot. https://www.katrinaforussenate.com/
moved from 28% to 38% from June 19 to Aug 2
And let's help Colin Allred beat Cancun Cruz from Texas.
Trying to scare America? Sadly, its not America I am worried about. It is West Virginia (where Trump won by 38%, the largest margin of any state in America in 2020, even as Biden was winning the election) and Montana (which Trump won by 16% in 2020). Those are the only two states which are virtually certain to flip, with Manchin of WV having retired and Tester of Montana virtually certain to lose. So I do not agree with your premise. There is almost no realistic scenario where the Democrats can hold the Senate, even assuming Sherrod Brown can win again in Ohio. I wish it was different (and if I was smoking what everyone else making comments like this is smoking maybe I could delude myself that reality isn't real) but we are victims of the weird Senate system and the balance on party power which changes every two years (unlike the House where changes are more about overall turnout).
When Jon Tester last ran in 2018, it was an off-year for President and people were already getting sick of Trump. The House flipped to Democratic control that year and the Senate got VERY close to flipping, with the GOP hanging on to a 51-49 majority. But Trump wasn't running and the GOP turnout was much lower. In 2020, people were totally done with Trump, especially during the mishandling of the pandemic. And 2020 was a year when fewer Democratic Senate seats were at risk than GOP.
Now in 2024, we are repeating the 2018 cycle except it is a Presidential election year, so even if Trump loses (which appears highly likely now), GOP turnout will be large and in the states that really count for the Senate (WV and Montana) there is almost no scenario where the Dems can realistically win. Ohio will be tough for Brown, but at least he is loved there. Tester isn't loved, just has won very close elections. His luck of running in 2018, ran out this year having to run in a Presidential election year. History suggests Montana will turn out huge for Trump and that will mean Tester simply has almost zero chance of winning (and the polls bear that out).
So while I will keep my fingers crossed that some other upsets might happen (beat Cruz in Texas?!! or beat Scott in Florida? - slightly better chance but still highly unlikely) but I am pretty much resigned to losing the Senate. We need to keep focused on making sure the White House stays Democratic and hope New Yorkers in the swing districts that went GOP in 2022 will swing back, giving us a slim lead in the House.
In 2026, the trend moves back towards the Dems in the Senate and that year we probably will take back the Senate. And THEN we can finally move this country forward to a better future.
Sorry, but resignation is not in my lexicon. Give, work, and do all we can…they want use to believe it’s all hopeless, it is NOT. VOTE BLUE
I have worked on statewide and national politics for a long time and I have always been careful not to spread my goals too thin. "Do all we can" often feels (to me) like an over-commitment rather than focusing on what is rationally possible. I'd love to think if I just worked a little harder I could turn the whole nation around but I've learned my lesson on that notion many times (particularly 44 years ago in the Carter- Reagan election). We were all dewy- eyed idealists who knew the world was changing and we were leading it, first by getting Nixon to resign and then by getting Carter elected. Boy were we in for an eye opener in 1980. Reagan? THE ACTOR? And sure enough he kicked Carter's butt and now 44 years later here we are.
I don't think "it's all hopeless" but I do think there are real rational goals we can reach if we don't diffuse our efforts too much.
Oh, Jon Rosen, and Happy 100th Birthday to that very same Jimmy Carter, whose brain functioning and values are still very much intact!
What is “martial politics”?
LOL supposed to be national politics, stupid autocorrect misspelling. I fixed it, sorry about that!
Just get busy and do all you can!
Just Donated to Tester and Brown and I know and agree giving up is not in my lexicon either. I was literally thrown off a porch in NC where I live. I decided in order to continue and not buckle under the strain of folks yelling or saying mean things I would partner with other Canvassers. That speech that Fannie Lou Hamer gave at the 1964 Democratic Convention never leaves me or the story of Rev James Reeb. If you don’t know the stories- Google it and your soul will be charged up!!
I don't believe a word of the polls. Women are furious and will vote in droves for VP Harris. The magats are toast. MSM will not tell us the truth since they are all in for the convicted felon adjudicated rapist for tax breaks...we will prevail!
56.9% of Montana voters are women.
What percentage support the tunitics
Well here is what I learned about women voting when there is a male in the household- women may tote the line of the household. Last Saturday I had the experience of two women running toward the door and confronting me stating very loudly “we are undecided” while blinking their eyes wildly. I asked is there anything I can help you with (I know all the stats for how Harris will help our country) and she repeated while blinking her eyes hard “ we are undecided “- and almost similar instance at another door where I canvassed this time a man came up behind the women as she was about to speak he said “get the hell off my porch”— she looked so troubled and helpless- we locked eyes for a moment and I felt sorry for her that she was not allowed to speak to me on her own. What is happening?
Most of them. (I assume you meant lunatics lol). Tester had won in Montana because of the timing of his elections. He was first elected in 2012 when Obama had a big win nationally. He won in 2018 by a very thin margin in the so-called Blue sweep which really was remarkable and there was no "Trump coat tails" to help his opponent. This year is not a good year for Tester and the polls (yes I know a lot of you don't believe in polls but that is nonsense they are mostly pretty damn good indicators and have been for years). Anyway, I think Tester is done this year. And with the virtually 100% lock the GOP have on Manchin s seat in West Virginia, that makes the senate 51-49 GOP. Game over. Put a fork in it. Start looking at 2026.
Sorry to be so rough but why waste time on fantasies when reality is what you have to deal with.
Might I be wrong? Of course but as someone (maybe Bret Maverick?) once said, sure the tortoise might win but I'll bet on the rabbit.
Bravo, Terry!I am with you!
Good luck with your fantasies. Polls aren't perfect by any means but they show clear trends. If you really believe that the Magats are "toast" I want some of the boo you are smoking. Must be good stuff!!!
I personally believe in political reality. Yes we will prevail in some places (most hopefully the white house and the House) but not in all places (most likely not the Senate).
Logic and reason says we will NOT prevail in the Senate. You are welcome to engage in wishful thinking but I have concluded that some battles are simply lost and the sooner you accept it the more you can accomplish by moving on.
The senate is MOST likely lost to the Dems this election but with a really good chance of regaining it in 2026. I am focusing on making sure Trump doesn't win on November and that we take back the house (two much more likely goals and ones with good results for the country).
Do we want the Senate? Of course we do but the fates of how the seats are distributed gives us a very long shot at holding it, even 50-50. For me the only rational move is to put as much resource as we can into the presidency and the House and wait until 2026 when, with 19 GOP senate seats up for grabs and virtually no Democratic seats at risk, we have a much better chance of retaking it.
Sticking your head in the sand and believing in fairy tales isn't a good look, sorry to be so brutal about it but I've been through 13 presidential elections and 13 more off year elections in my life and I've learned a few lessons like fight the battles that are winnable and move on quickly from the ones you are going to lose. And I've still been bitten by the unexpected (like Trump's victory in 2016 sigh).
Good luck with your dreams. I'll bet on things that at least have a chance.
I believe you are wrong....but we will see in November. I just drove through Wyoming, Montana and S. Dakota. There were VERY few Trump Vance signs. I may have seen three or four.
Even Galveston, Texas, has seen a large number of souvenir shops, without their usual Trump merchandise. I've seen very few Trump signs....fewer than Harris/Walz in my neighborhood.
And I ain't smoking anything. I believe your wrong, I hope your wrong, but we'll see in November. And if we win...we will see all the dirty trick Repubs play to throw the election
We still have time to mitigate our 2020 losses and take our message to the diaspora. E.G. Uniontown, Waynesburg, Somerset, New Castle, Meadville, Sharon. Dubois Pa. Grand Rapids. Wausau, Green Bay, etc.
Target the message to them!
In 2020, Trump won my home county in Pennsyltucky by 65%. In others, 78%.
Trump won Waushara and Washington Counties, Wisconsin by 2/3. St. Clair County, Michigan by 64%.
To win the blue wall, neutralize MAGA.
I live in Waushara County, WI. Yes, there are a lot of tRump signs around, especially in farm fields, which makes no sense to me. But the Dems around here, who have long been timid due to fears of being overwhelmed, are speaking out and stepping up, running for office and ready to vote!!!
Great. Need cheeseheads for Kamala. Big day today, Voter registration.
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Susan, our next door neighbor, a former R (now I) county commissioner, has a Harris/Walz sign out. It is important that Ds prevail. We were at our haircuts yesterday and it owned by a married gay couple who feel, naturally, threatened by Rs. Our hair person actually refused to rebook a client who was too up front about how she felt. It is difficult for them, running a business.
Good for your hairdresser friend to refuse the business. It IS legal to do that. If someone offends you, you can say, "thanks but no thanks". I am sorry they had to do that (business is not easy to come by these days) but glad they were able to stand firm and tell those who offend them to take a walk.
He didn't actually say anything, just refused to rebook her and she knew why. The people who come to the shop know that he and Eddie are married, but MAGAs often have to somehow be in your face. This is why so many of them love death star; they have carte blanche to be openly hateful. I was in education for many years and had to keep politics (and religion) to myself. I also had to contend now and then with parents who were problems, but I had to be tactful.
There is a huge difference between "I believe you are wrong" and "I hope you are wrong". I hope I am wrong TOO! I certainly do not want to lose the Senate. But I am also someone who looks closely at the data and interprets it using the appropriate available facts. There is NOTHING I can see on the horizon that suggests I am wrong. If you KNOW something I don't, please let me know. Anecdotal stuff about souvenir shops in Texas? Not really all that classifiable as evidence, y'know. So if you said "I hope you are wrong" I would strongly agree with you. If you say "I believe you are wrong", I go back to suggesting that you must be smoking something LOL, but please do not take offense... it is not personal, it is just a reality-based view of politics in 2024.
And I am not even THINKING about the crap the GOP can throw if they lose. That will be a whole 'nuther discussion. But let's wait until we get there. I can only deal with one catastrophe at a time LOL! :-)
There was “ no realistic way” for Dems to hold the senate in 2020 either. But Georgia happened.
Actually Georgia was rated a toss-up in 2020 and the Dems managed to oust two very bad GOP candidates. But the big difference (IF you are interest in logic and not just passion) is that Georgia was a split state by population, with a LARGE black population (and one of the Senate candidates, Raphael Warnock, was black if you remember). It typically has margins like 5% between GOP and Democratic. That put any state-wide race (as opposed to races in the districts which are highly gerrymandered) as a relative toss-up. Montana is NOTHING AT ALL like that. Typically, it has 10-15% swings TOWARDS GOP candidates including Trump when he has been on the ballot. Tester got lucky because he ran in 2012 (when Obama won the Presidency) and then again in 2018 during the non-presidential election year when the so-called "blue wave" hit the US. But THIS year Trump IS on the ballot (and polls show him leading in Montana by his typical 10+% point margins. Tester is seriously in trouble and the polls show that clearly.
I am sorry, I am a computer software engineer and I tend to look at data, not emotions. Emotions CAN change things but rarely, mostly data works best. And the data for Montana suggests a 5+% GOP win in the Senate. I'd be happy to make or take a bet on that. Willing to bet $100 that the GOP candidate will win by at least 5%.
For me, if you seriously think there is a chance that Tester can win, you should be willing to take that bet, but I doubt anyone (at least anyone who is in their right mind) would.
Again, I sure hope I am wrong. I do NOT want to concede the Senate to the GOP insanity again (hopefully not McConnell this time, but my guess is he will try to hold on to his power from the last time). But if I have to place a bet, it certainly will be on the GOP.
Jon Rosen, I don't disagree with you, but being "realistic" about our chances is discouraging for me. If I am to be disappointed, I'll save it for after the elections. For now I will continue to work my ass off in hope that it will make a difference. Dewy-eyed idealism has accomplished much.
I am happy for you and of course hope you can change things. I felt that way for many years until Reagan won in 1980. Sigh, that was an eye-opener. Carter was still one of the best Presidents we ever had and he was screwed by the GOP. Oh well, I will probably never get over that one. Anyway, as I have said, I hope you are right and I am wrong. Stranger things have happened in the past LOL. Just not often enough, sigh.
I read or listened to so many things today so I don't remember where it was I learned of the discouraging news about Montana and the effect that losing the Senate will have on the federal court system. While Biden has been able to appoint a number of judges and one justice, many lower court judges will be retiring soon. To prevent a President Harris from appointing judges and justices McConnell would pull a Garland and not allow any confirmations to proceed.
I follow Simon Rosenberg's work and philosophy. Do More Worry Less. And frankly your outlook is a very small piece of the overall political picture for the past 9 years.
I invite you to please stop doomsday posting.
This is not doomsday posting. It is serious analysis and it is NECESSARY if everyone is to be clear-headed. Passion does NOT win elections. Brains and facts and effort win elections. And reality is always a good thing to keep in mind. I suggest that your invitation be politely declined. You are certainly entitled to your opinion here, but I pay for my privilege to post here too and I do NOT represent the enemy, I am your FRIEND, and trust me I will NEVER vote for anyone who even comes close to a MAGAt but I still feel it is important to TELL THE TRUTH, not cover it up with opinions that do not hold up to careful analysis.
Reagan started it with his conjuring up the "welfare queen draining the Treasury," turning the mentally ill out onto the streets, waging war on the Middle Class and giving massive tax breaks to the wealthy, resulting in his admin tripling the national debt and leading to the present $35 trillion debt. Our schools failed to teach critical thinking skills, making G.W. Bush's famous statement true: "You can fool some of the people all of the time, and those are the ones you want to concentrate on." So, the oligarchs went to the airwaves and the print to pay for the spread of disinformation and outright lies. The result? Today 806 billionaires have wealth equal to that of one-half of the American population (163,000,000). We now have an oligarchy and a virtual non-existent Middle Class. When my generation passes on (I'm 84), what's left?
Not just donate to them but Phonebank for them and if you live in OH or MT, canvass for them. This will definitely help.
OH Phonebank:
https://www.mobilize.us/mobilize/event/631457/
Volunteer with Brown’s campaign:
https://secure.ngpvan.com/JfpNUa_Zpk6_BeBaQjtB7Q2
Volunteer for Tester:
https://www.mobilize.us/bigskyvictory/event/617075/
MT Phonebank:
https://www.mobilize.us/mobilize/event/623920/
Thanks Abby!
Yes DMS I so agree with you. While donating helps,we hope, in getting the message out on the importance of this election the most important is getting as many as possible out to vote and that they are committed to Vote Blue up and down this ticket because there is too much work to do to set the course straight to truly save democracy. The struggle will never be over, but we can lessen the success of authoritarian takeover. Also be alert for any movement in local and National that is attempting voter suppression and share that with friends and family, because when you lose your vote, you lose everything.
If you donate to Movement Voter Project, they will run the algorithms and put your money where it is needed most! Everyone giving to one candidate 1 day and another the next does not put the $$ where it is necessarily needed at this or that point in time, AND they pay their workers which developes a ground
Pretty much every paragraph of Heather's letter today should be amplified, separately, on our social media accounts. She is giving us the material for concise informational posts and the links to back them up - that if the million plus of us were actually taking the time to pass them on, would do a whole lot more than simply hoping the larger media will cover these points.
We need all the light on on this demagoguery we can manage.
I will spend time trying to to post each of her topics today for exactly that reason
I'm planning on a couple "In what world is it ok for ..." using topics from this post.
She lied to
You about the Dana Bash interview
Well, she posted - as always - a link to the source. If you listen to it and don't agree with her, fine, but calling it a lie is both disingenuous and uncivil. That matters to me because I come here for the civility in this community. it's usually a welcome escape from the rampant ranting and irrational incivility of other platforms.
Look at the source Heather has included.
Huh?
I posted a paragraph of hers on my Facebook feed just now.
Steve, I heard Vance's statement on MSNBC, but didn't hear anything about it on CBS or my local news. I am appalled what Trump and Vance are getting away with. Inciting violence should be a crime and Vance should be charged. Trump was charged for January 6th, but still nothing has come of that due to a whole bunch of ridiculous legal mumbo-jumbo. If Harris or Walz or Biden had done any of what Trump and Vance have been doing in the past month or so, there would have been a huge outcry and every media outlet would have been screaming for them to resign or be impeached. Vance should be censured in the Senate, but it won't happen because Republicans cannot hold anyone in their pathetic party responsible for anything, well, except ?Santos, a complete fraud and they didn't even want to do that.
And then Trump had the gall to blame his "assignation attempt" on the rhetoric from Harris saying he was bad for democracy.
🤣🤣🤣 Thanks for “assignation.” Shouldn’t we start with teaching Trump language?
Good luck with that LOL. Its hard to teach a 78 year old illiterate new tricks. Even if the tricks are the right ones :-)
He was not a very useful idiot.
I am assuming you are talking about Santos LOL. And yes, if so, you are right, he was SO outlandish (not to mention he was gay and lied about being Jewish) he was a convenient "see, we dropped him from our party, we aren't THAT bad" except of course they (the GOP) ARE that bad and Santos was just a useful distraction... "pay no attention to that man behind the curtain" :-).
You forget, Steve.
As favorite convicted criminal of the Clarence court, that orange felon is immune to all U.S. law.
Phil, that immunity thing is supposed to be only when in office and when the act is called "official." Trump does not meet any of those criteria now, but it won't matter. The SC must owe Baby Donnie and will pay him dearly while screwing our nation. Sweet deal for them because they have lifetime appointments so they can do whatever they want and no one will supposedly be able to stop them. A Democratic victory up and down the ballot in every state would stop them.
That is just wild crazy fantasy. There is literally no way there will be Democratic victories up and down the ballot in every state. The sooner you become realistic about politics, the better off you AND our nation will be. Trying the fantasize results that are simply not possible let alone probable is a waste of time and energy. There ARE realistic outcomes that we can work towards. My HOPE is to focus on (a) Harris winning the presidency, (b) A small number of NY and CA House districts that swung away from the Ds to the GOPs in 2022 giving the GOP the House will swing back giving the Dems again a 5-10 vote majority in the House and (c) ONLY losing the two Senate seats that seem virtually certain, West Virginia (Manchin's seat) and Montana (Tester's seat) and holding everything else including Sherrod Brown in Ohio, which will mean the GOP edge in the Senate will only be one seat, 51-49, since 50-50 with a Democrat in the VP spot means the Democrats still control the Senate. If by some VERY lucky chance the Dems can win either in Texas or Florida, that would be a major miracle and of course a 50-50 Senate would be HUGE for us. Let us pray it can happen, but be realistic. There will NOT be any SWEEP of the country, no matter how much you dream and wish and fantasize about it. IT. JUST. WON'T. HAPPEN. Sorry, that's just the truth.
Democrats need to focus on state races as well, and there is a tendency to ignore that.
Absolutely! I just think trying to set a goal of winning across the board up and down ballot is unrealistic. Focus on what is possible and maybe a few improbable elections will fall out way. Trying to win everything runs the risk of spreading ourselves too thin and losing too much.
Oh Jon, please don't do the work of the MAGAts and Russians for them. Nobody thought the "Blue Wave" would happen. But it did, against all expectations.
Thank you.
That, Ruth, and/or impeachment! The House can vote to impeach Supremes and the senate can convict and remove them from office. But we’d need that full ballot blue to do so.
Several want to resign and make real money in retirement, and do not want to do so under a democratic president. To which I say, fuck them!
Yup. And that court will crown the Orange Felon king in November.
We'll "fight, fight, fight" that from happening!
Hope and pray for the good of the country and our democracy we never have to see his orange face again regarding our Country and politics.
I am with you on the class action lawsuit by the residents of Springfield, Ohio against the Trump campaign. I read earlier today that Trump, Vance et al have" swatted" the city of Springfield by throwing out this vicious and vile( and also totally untrue) rhetoric against the Haitian community there. As a resident of Ohio, I am beyond outrage that this is happening in my state and is being orchestrated by a Senator here who is supposed to be representing my and my fellow Ohioans best interests.J D Vance along with his boss is totally unfit to serve.
It makes me very sad and angry that my state, Ohio's, reputation is being dragged through the mud by its own Senator!
I just made up a new word: caninophagia. Is that inflammatory enuf for ya? Go Harris/Walz!!
I've been wondering if I, a normal US citizen, could bring a lawsuit against Trump, for pain and suffering. I think it would be fabulous if millions of us could bring a class action lawsuit against him for this. Let's use his own tactics against him, keep delaying the case and keep him fighting it for years. I am SO TIRED of his shit! And in case anyone is wondering, NONE of the people who are truly against him want to see him assassinated. Because then he will be considered a martyr by his followers, and they will keep his vile hatred going forever.
Yeah, I'd rather see him held accountable in prison.
I will have to disagree with your assassination comment.
As to the lawsuit, he will be protected by his suck-ups on the Supreme Court.
Hate speech is generally accepted to be one of the prerequisites for mass atrocities such as genocide.
Let's not get bogged down in this stuff. This stuff is the effort of Republicans to deflect from their abysmal record of working for the American people and their lack of a clear agenda.
We have an election to win.
Steve, and everyone, for God's sake, please stop blaming the good guys. Merrick Garland is not just one of the good guys, he is also competent, and being good doesn't mean your competent, or vice versa. My point is that mocking him is helping the bad guys. And a class action lawsuit? How well has that worked so far?
The law is a useful tool if used with discretion, but its purpose is to constrain in lieu of control society, and it only works if enough of us have the wisdom to constrain our own ignorance. The more people there are that refuse to constrain their own ignorance, the less effective is the law.
Constraining our own ignorance is the only way to make the world a better place. And we are heading in the opposite direction when our ignorance is unconstrained.
To clarify: I am "constraining my own ignorance" when I see a disagreement with another individual or group as a dilemma that, if important enough, is worthy of a multi-step resolution. Conversely, if I see the disagreement as a problem with a one-step "I'm right, you're wrong, and this conversation is over" solution, then my ignorance is unconstrained. So, it's not hard to tell if someone is trying to resolve dilemmas or merely trying to solve problems.
"Be angry, but do not let the sun go down on your anger." —Ephesians 4:26.
It’s one thing to express your opinion. It’s another thing to claim I am “ignorant”. You just earned a block. Perhaps you’ll grow up someday and learn how to give people more respect the you appear capable of giving people today.
The question is not whether an individual is ignorant or not. We are all ignorant. No matter how much an individual knows, there’s a lot more that the individual does not know. The question for all of us is whether we are willing to constrain our own ignorance.
I have no problem with anyone criticizing my opinions, just take the time to understand what you’re criticizing. If I did have that problem, THEN I would be immature. In other words, one of us must learn how to give people more respect than they appear capable of giving today. It’s just that you've left me with the opinion that that person is not me.
Bottom line is that I can dish it out when I think it's important enough, and I'm mature enough to take it. Or does a block mean Steve doesn't see my comments?
In the meantime, the NYTwit runs as its “lede” headllne: “Trump, Using Harsh Language, Urges Democrats to Tone Down Theirs”
The entire Republican party needs to be investigated. Get after it Garland.
His admission should be “above the fold” stories in all media. Please demand your media and individual journalists to make it a top priority story. That lie is causing calls for violence. That is unacceptable from a candidate for public office.
Great questions!
Vance represents Ohio. What he has done to this community is reprehensible.
Steve, thank you for your comment. Criticisms of Trump and MAGA are easy to write but have no real effect on the election. We need ideas for "Action" and yours is one of them. The race is too close. There is no assurance that Harris wins.
Action Item: make one phone call today. Just one. Convince somebody to register, volunteer for something, or tell your state legislator you want them to do something.
Domestic terrorists - good call.
I am mystified as to why people making bomb threats against schools and public buildings think that's a statement against the Haitian residents of Springfield. Instead, those threats reveal a normalization of criminal thugs, bullies, liars, and cheats eager to take over our civic life, exemplified by Trump and Vance.
Trump admitted to the Daily Beast that he lost the 2020 election, and Vance admitted on CNN that he deliberately lied about Haitians and pets.
Trump and Vance are actively abdicating their responsibilities as American citizens and political leaders. Instead, they seek power by any means possible, regardless of who gets hurt in the process.
Remember: when Democrats and like-minded people vote for Democrats, Democrats win. When Dems and like-minded others don't vote, Republicans win. Let's Get Out the Vote for Democrats up and down the ballot!
Sometimes violence cannot be reasonably avoided, but it's never good. Bullying, whether with words or bullets, is never good, but it seems to be a lifestyle for many. I have seen many indications that the US is seen in many other parts of the world as an excessively violent culture, even if they recognize that is not the whole story. The obsessive gun culture seems to me a manifestation of a deeper cult of legitimizing violence. Vicious slander against a minority is very much a form of violence. Depriving people of their legitimate share of representation and access to the vote is a form of violence. Depriving people of medical care is violence. Greed is a form of violence; that's what makes it greed.
J L Graham, I agree. I have thought for a long time that we must expand the way we talk about violence to show that neglect is violence.
As we recognize, if sometimes inconsistently, when children are involved.
J L Graham, yes, the effect of parental and governmental neglect is suffering. It is all violence against the right to dignity and the sanctity of life.
There is a lot to ponder here, JL. My perspective on violence while I was working was that I viewed my ability to utilize violence in defense of others was a gift to be used to defend those who cannot use violence themselves. To use violence for the sake of self-gratification is an abomination, and there is far, far to much glorification of that.
As I say, some applications of violence are the only reasonable choice such as shooting the sniper that was shooting at Trump. It was the right choice is those circumstances. At the same time, there were apparently avoidable lapses of vigilance that might have prevented the danger for reaching that point. The Secret service was wise to scout ahead in the latest attempt om Trump. When a "fire" is in progress it has to be stopped. I greatly respect those who fight to protect the rights of others.
And also, violence takes many forms. Misogyny, racism, homophobia, any breach of "unalienable" human rights. Some bullies make being a bully a point of pride. Trump does, and I think he calls that forward in his followers, a streak of grandiose cruelty.
These bomb threats against schools make no sense at all...but then neither do most school shootings. I think some people use the perception of extreme events to act out and perform their own extreme events...or just play sick jokes on people with no intention of really setting a bomb. Talk is cheap....
and yes, Trump and Vance have totally abdicated any responsibility to be real leaders with any sense of morality, fairness or decency. They have become rabid political animals with a feral strategy.
Mike, as I see it, the purpose is to sow chaos—and to make people afraid that they’ll be accused of things if they speak up—kind of a political “swatting”. Look at how easily some people (Laura Loomer) toss around the word “treason” against Democrats, suggesting that they should be executed.
https://www.villages-news.com/2024/06/02/loomer-calls-for-death-penalty-for-democrats-who-committed-treason/
I agree. That's why I want to start an "Historians for Harris...because FACTS Matter" movement. How do you fight against that ? Facts don't matter...you start to look REALLY absurd...at least to people we may be able to motivate for Harris.
The article mentions Laura Loomer came close to winning the primary for FL11. A breath of fresh air comes from the Villages Democratic Club videos like https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fKDkqqDiFkw
I believe Democrats should never leave a seat uncontested, always have a candidate such as Barbie Hall running for the seat no matter what the odds
It's what demagogues do, and history has seen some very ugly examples.
Butchering our children with weapons of war, blowing them up with bombs, makes perfect sense to criminals we see clearly, right before us. The viral pace at which trumps mental illness has spread exponentially, is paralyzing our sane leaders as to what the hell to do about it! Our children have become their chosen 'weapons of war', and we are left with no choice until we bury them in November. Welcome to the history books friends!
“Don’t let the BEST get in the way of the GOOD! That’s one of the best things to say to people who are unsure what to do now as for voting wisely. Example: It is best that your children, and grandchildren go to school each day not being subject to being slaughtered so JD Vance can “create stories” to get them killed. It is BEST that we get the bi-partisan border bill back on the table. How is it best that trump orders it not passed in order to get his miserable way? How!?
Despite the size of MAGA, It think it is easier to spot the difference between it ideal choice and the worst choice, but it can require wisdom to see the better of two mixed bag choices. You gotta look at enough of the forest as well as the trees.
WOWerful insight, Laurie. Thank you.
I am mystified that Gov. DeWine still says he'll vote for the former guy even as he decries the garbage coming out of his mouth
For some decades now the Republican MO has been to put party loyalty above all else, and to severely limit dissent within the party. The whole party turns of those who stray too far from orthodoxy. With rare exceptions, it would be thought OK to burn the nation to the ground so long as one of their own leading lights struck the match; so strong is the grip of cult thinking. .
Me, too. What does have to lose if he votes for Harris?
What he said is that he thinks that on economy issues the Republican is the better choice
Bankers and economists disagree with deWine. Many have pulled their support from Trump because T's policies would "cause chaos" in our country.
Yeah, but lacking a spine he needs a justification
Succinct answer!
Trump's economic fantasies far worse than even Reagan's. Republican tax cuts are boosting plutocratic meddling in our society, and curtailing services that we desperately need. Someone besides HCR should be taking about the legacy of Smoot-Hawley.
Paul Krugman on the effects of tarriffs. https://www.nytimes.com/column/paul-krugman?campaign_id=116&emc=edit_pk_20240917&instance_id=134556&nl=paul-krugman®i_id=89966454&segment_id=178091&te=1&user_id=ceb4fcd25526f0c91a519e1d92bd0460
Party over country, every time.
And rich over poor. Who wins and who loses when modern Republicans rule?
So long as it's secret.
Laurie, if you have the legal right to vote, then you are voting. And when you vote, you send a message to elected officials. In 2024, casting a ballot for a Republican is voting for someone to blame, as long as it's not the person I see in the morning when I look in the mirror. Casting a ballot for a Democrat is supporting the coin that has freedom on one side and responsibility on the other side. Staying home on election day is voting for someone to blame, as long as it's not the person I see in the morning when I look in the mirror.
Fabulous assessment!
When reading frumps post “I HATE TAYLOR SWIFT”, I hear the screech of a snot nosed tantrum throwing boy in a sand pit throwing toys and bawling after the girl he tries to bully pushes him face first into the dirt.
This is not the behaviour of a wanna be world leader. It is a telling, pathetic display of unfitness.
Diana I think it was a signal, a call to his maggots, giving permission to harm Taylor Swift. Just like he called upon Russia to find the 30,000 Clinton emails and they followed through for him. These are examples of how Trump will employ others to hurt his enemies and critics if he is (God forbid!) elected again. It is hard to understand how he has not been and is not being prosecuted for this behavior. WTF
Yes maybe. As far as a snot nosed tantrum can appeal to his base.
I’m in a continuing state of bafflement about the polls being so close. Suggesting that nearly half of American voters find something appealing in him. I mean, he’s a vile, weak and cowardly troublemaker. This is not a choice between worthy opponents. It’s a slam dunk for anyone else but him. It just so happens that the Dems have put up a person who is on the top of the pile. She’s nearly perfect.
The Pope called both candidates equally "evil". Ask the AMA how many potentially savable people likely died because Trump politicized COVID precautions (and we're not done with it)? How violent an act is it to take away and lock up small children of immigrant families, a large number of which have yet to be returned? Why are so many reluctant to call Trump way, way over the line?
J L Graham, I was so disgusted by his words. He has been brave and progressive in some of his other views and I have cheered. Not with this comment about the race. Good grief. WTH Wake up and think logically. Put "bad" on a continuum. Violence against his citizens bad, bad. really bad. No comparison. See how easy that was.
As a Catholic, I have to disagree with Pope Francis on this one, as much as I admire him for other policies.
Yes, me too, Kathy. On the other hand, he has said that abortion isn't the only issue to consider when voting. And he has said it's up to each person's informed conscience how they vote, which is the bedrock of how we must make our decisions. In other words, feel free to disagree with the Pope if and when your (informed) conscience tells you differently. God is your "judge" ultimately, not the pope. Do what you have to before God. (Ofcourse, this is assuming you're not a mentally ill person.)
Yep, so much for infallibility of the cat Pope 🤔
I appreciate the Pope is in a tough spot politically, but Trump is mad enough to endanger the world, and his his teachings and behavior are hardly those attributed to Jesus. Hate? Cruelty? Violence? Material Greed? Where is that in the equation?
J L Graham, you penned it well why I was so upset by his words. Fear of and anger at tfg are probably why I reacted so strongly to the Pope's comment. I was also surprised, I think. Since he became Pope, he has boldly, courageously spoke and written on a range of topics, forging new, much-needed more progressive paths. It continues to boggle my mind that he can't discern the vast degrees between the two candidates, of suffering they have caused and would cause. And if he can, but is afraid to say, then he should have said nothing.
He's 87. Probably it's Late onset dementia.
Or, he may be considering that both candidates approve genocide.
It's not dementia, Judith, in my understanding of his health. He has made no declaration of infallibility regarding abortion. Furthermore, he has left it to each person's (informed) conscience who to vote for.
As an "auslander" - this statement by the Pope is a tad confusing - I realise that the Pope is unhappy about Kamala's support for abortion, one can only hope that his comments refers to the 2 scourges.
He might well say that Harris holds a position(s?) that he cannot condone, but that Trump has all the earmarks of a fascist, wannabee dictator, or words to that effect. If once considers both candidates truly immoral, abstention is an option, but, in just speaking of past performance, Trumps record guarding human lives, human dignity and the rights of ALL children is a disaster area, and threatens to become far worse, ans=d supposing that narcissistic Trump is the answer to any defense of a moral position is fantasy.
"It is hard to understand how he has not been and is not being prosecuted for <this> behavior." What behavior? We still live in a country with free speech. Everything you mention is covered by the First Amendment to our Constitution. He is an idiot, a buffoon, a jerk. But he IS smart enough (or at least MOST Of the time) to avoid doing overt acts which would be subject to prosecution. He stepped over the boundaries on Jan 6 and in a few other situations (like the Mar Lago boxes of classified documents and his call to Georgia to try to get them to find 11,000 more votes for him) and is being prosecuted for those acts although in Georgia, Fanni Wallis screwed it up totally by her inability to keep her boyfriend's you-know-what in his pants, and of course he managed to get the MOST sympathetic judge in Florida to throw out the Mar Lago case - which almost certainly will be reinstated but it runs out the clock before the election. My point is simply that MOST of the time, he avoids actually committing crimes. He is offensive, repulsive even, but politically he has managed to avoid being criminal MOST of the time. We don't prosecute people for their behavior if it isn't criminal and posting offensive posts on social media is still not criminal behavior in most cases.
He has not avoided committing crimes, the bulk of victims will, in any case, have been defenseless "little people", he has successfully avoided answering for his crimes.
And now he and sidekick Vance aim for power hitherto enjoyed only by kings by divine right, tyrants and dictators like Hitler, Stalin and Mao; power guaranteed by "Justices" parachuted into the Supreme Court for the specific purpose of replacing the Republic by a made-to-measure oligarchic tyranny shored up by official State religion.
Peter, thank you for responding. I know that we’re told not to engage trolls, but it’s so rewarding to read a deserved response.
Peter Burnett, mic drop.
Home run, Peter. bases loaded, bottom of the 9th, behind by 3 runs.
Better analogy?
Charles Manson did not actually commit the murders - but he got his followers to do so and was convicted -- I realize that this is not apples to apples - but the parallels of a cult leader encouraging followers to do his bidding, based on a non-existent reality - is striking.
Actually not really. Manson didn't actually commit the murders but he clearly ordered his followers to do them. In that case he gave them very specific instructions on what to do. Also his contacts were personal. The people who committed those crimes on his behalf were living with him and hanging out on a day by day basis. That is a far cry from a political candidate saying things in front of crowds of strangers.
Doesn’t America have any laws against incitement? Surely he has crossed that boundary multiple times
Actual incitement? Yes. But incitement legally has to include statements that people should take actual action, not just protected speech which might inflame someone. So you can NOT say "you all should take torches and burn down the building!" but you CAN say "what goes on in that building is terrible and maybe it deserves to be burned down". The former is incitement, the latter is just highly disturbing free speech. Read Trump's comments carefully and I challenge you to find any actual incitement. Just inflaming people's feelings is NOT incitement. It is expected that people will NOT respond to such inflammatory comments, as long as they aren't being incited to actual actions that would be illegal.
Yes, I know, it doesn't always make sense, but I studied this subject in law school and it didn't always make sense to me either, but I do understand our severe insistence on keep speech free (and I applaud that).
And if Obama did any of the things you mention would he be a “criminal”? How would he have been treated?!
We lived in different times just 8-9 years ago. We expected different (and better) conduct from our leaders. Trump has clearly made a mess of that, but it doesn't change the fact that most of the time (Jan 6 being the clearest exception) he has stayed within the lines (if only barely).
I just read several articles about the Pope's comments on the two candidates. He did not call them "equally evil" though he criticizes both for what he considers "evil" stances. What he said is that he counsels voters to vote for the one they consider the "lesser evil". Not a whole lot better than "equally evil" but also not as absolute as you present it. Every article title I saw in my search results specifically includes the phrase "lesser evil".
The BBC article quotes the Pope as saying "You must choose the lesser evil. Who is the lesser evil? That lady, or that gentleman? I don't know. Everyone, in conscience, (has to) think and do this." https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/crkdmdg78jgo
"nearly half of American voters find something appealing in him"
It is hard to believe that there is that much white resentment festering in the general population. But it is there. And the Groper-in-Chief has made himself the face and the voice of the Make America White Again crowd.
It is the license to hate, and to be open about it that they revel in.
They made the "Baby Trump" blimp for a reason.
Trump is pure Id.
First we have Musk and his "text rape" with his comment to Taylor Swift about giving her a baby. Then you have Vance and his comments about VP Harris and her safety and then last, and possibly just as dangerous you have the Sheriff of Portage County and his very Hitler like statement about Harris/Walz campaign signs.
https://theportager.com/residents-express-fear-after-sheriff-says-write-down-all-the-addresses-of-harris-supporters.
See a pattern here? The Nazis party never died, it changed countries and "idols."
What a despicable person e. musk has turned into! Shame on him!
"Musk has turned into"??? Seriously? Musk has ALWAYS been a despicable person, in virtually everything he has ever done, starting with Tesla and including his withdrawing communications from Ukranian military in the height of their war against Russia. He is a disgusting corrupt man who has managed to pull the wool over almost everyone's eyes. If you are just now learning this, you haven't been paying attention much.
Actually, I have been paying attention, and his withdrawing communications from Ukrainian military in the height of their war against Russia was - as you state - just one of his abominable acts, according to the motto: money spoils character. It's just a question whether there was actually any character to begin with
When Senator Vance's bool-sheet statements -- like those of the 'creole crisis' that he has created --inevitably arise in the Veep debate, I suggest that Governor Walz start each response to some mis-truth by saying, "There are two parts to my response. First, ¡liar liar -- Vance on fire! Now with respect to the matter [or the truth] of the matter raised . . . ."
In view of the assassination intent nipped in the bud before it became an attempt against the former President, this statement sounds cynical on my part. The thought crosses my mind that the violent rhetoric that has led to this second incident comes far more from the Trump ticket. E.G., take the drumpfing of a popular starlet, s.v.p.: "I HATE TAYLOR SWIFT!" This trumper tantrum arguably could be taken as a coded message to threaten or even harm Miss Swift.
My thoughts on this "attempted assassination" are far more cynical than yours. It was immediately followed by an appeal for donations. As was the previous "attempt." Has anyone seen the medical report about Trump's ear? Forgive me for sounding like a conspiracy theorist, but I can't help wondering if the bleeding ear was either a self-inflicted scratch or just some theatrical blood. And if this most recent story is just more of the same. If you want to be safe, you choose safe places for rallies, and you don't expose yourself to danger by golfing close to public roads while your golf course is open to the public. If it smells fishy...
Yeah, you really need to get off the "conspiracy" meds :-). Look, I hate this crap as much as you do, but seriously, do you think EITHER of these alleged assassins would put their lives and futures in jeopardy by staging attempted assassinations? Even if he promised them he would give them pardons when he is elected, what if he isn't elected? Do you seriously think these two random guys would put their futures in jeopardy on the hope that Trump would get elected?
That, at the least, seems very far-fetched. As has been proven time and time again, assassination attempts are virtually always solo attempts by deranged people who decide to take matters into their own hands. Conspiracy virtually NEVER has anything to do with it, at least not since the Lincoln assassination which was indeed a group of conspirators. But these two attempts against Trump? Stop worrying about whether he was really bleeding from his ear. He was, and everything that has been recorded seems to prove it.
In the end, no one, not even Trump, deserves to die at the hands of a murderer or assassin. If you disagree with me, then you are clearly not a very serious American.
Jon Rosen, false flags have been used over and over again as propaganda techniques throughout histiory then and now by dictators. Putin more than once, is an example. Who knows what the truth is, but when a person believes that another has shown a definite pattern of using propaganda, lies to create fear, anger, and them as the victim, with sermingly no bottom or even a scintilla of decency , well it's not so outrageous that some may wonder.
Many members of our well-regulated militia have been stepping out of line.
Jon Rosen, there have always been people ready to die of a leader or a cause. Tine for you to reread A Tale of Two Cities.
Question for you: Have you seen the medical report on Trump's ear? If you have, please share a link so we can all read it.
Also, to be clear, I am against assassination, capital punishment or violence of any sort.
Betsy, you do know that Tale of Two Cities is a NOVEL, not a HISTORY? Its fiction. The medical report on Trump's ear, like all medical reports, is private information that the patient has to make public voluntarily and Trump has never done that with anything so I wouldn't expect it now. But implying that we can't see it is evidence that there is something suspicious in it would be wrong, IMHO, as EVERYONE should be entitled to the protection of HIPAA laws (even Trump).
And I am very glad for your last sentence. Me too.
Jon, I know the difference between a novel and history. I also know that there have always been people willing to do for a leader or an ideal. Depending on where you're standing, they're either terrorists or freedom fighters
B.L.U.F.: excellent refutation, Jon, to what unfortunately is a straw-man argument on your part. So, I welcome your argument, if not agree with your hostility.
While I agree with you, Jon, Betsy was not necessarily asserting a conspiracy. She simply said that the thought of conspiracy had crossed her mind for certain reasons. Yes, a conspiracy crossed my mind, too; I then, like you, dismissed it.
The former President and his side bar, the junior Senator of Ohio, are using deceit systematically to "create" alternate facts even outright fictions to garner support for their demagogy.
¿Why would the idea of a deceit-via-conspiracy not cross the minds of reasonable people? Such supposed deceit would comport with the campaigns of deceit waged by candidate Trump and Senator whatever-his-name-is-this-week.
EDIT: M. Tree more concisely made the same argument; I had not yet read it when I pecked out my response.
these thoughts crossed my mind immediately. my first reaction was "oh please..."
Maybe it was a capsule of fake blood he bit down on.
Oh wait. Then there'd be photos of blood streaks near his mouth!
I feel exactly the same way that you do, Betsy.
I don’t think tRump was wounded at all in the first attempt. I think the kid with the AR-15 was a terrible shot and killed an adjacent bystander by mistake. Trump was hit by blood splatter from the victim, not a bullet.
Not blood spatter from the victim - they were too far apart. However, I personally think a small wound behind the ear from a shard of the teleprompter seems a realistic possibility. It takes very little to result in lots of blood from a cut on the head, as I know from two episodes earlier in my own life. Small wounds - lots of blood.
On the Georgia ban, here is Senator Ossoff leading a field hearing in Atlanta about this restrictive law in Georgia,
https://www.c-span.org/video/?538396-1/senate-judiciary-subcommittee-field-hearing-georgia-abortion-ban
Minutes four through thirteen are poignant for Ms Kulik.
Minutes thirteen through through twenty for Ms Ziyad.
Thank you Ned for the link. Each one of the speakers was eloquent and respectful. As each one spoke I wondered if they were screaming internally: “This is absurd! I shouldn’t even need to be here! It is 2024! Laws were changed based on the demands of some self-righteous misogynistic misguided people invoking the name of God—so sure they know God’s thinking—and here I am having to be polite! Lawmakers in my state did not protect the common good with these asinine laws. Why should I have to be here because of fools? Why can’t I scream? Because if ever there was a time to not have to be polite this is it!” I was screaming for them as I heard their stories!
The moral irredentism of these extreme pro-lifers defies compassion, common sense, and Xianity.
Thanks for the link Ned
You are welcome.
EDIT: D4N, this hearing is seventy-six minutes long (i.e., relatively short). The discussion after the opening statements is heartfelt and details just how brutal this ban really is.
Heartbreaking and infuriating.
Though I was pro-life for many years, this kind of policy was my basic fear of this issue infecting politics. Hence my long-time hypocrisy openly articulated.
and it'll be interesting how the country bumpkin handles himself when he's facing Walz in the upcoming two candidates for the vp job is held. I have no fear that our man Tim will wipe the floor with the fool from hicksville.
Walz has a lot to work with for his debate with lying Vance (or, as Vance would prefer story telling Vance) on October 1st.
EDIT: that is true, Christina.
Senator Vance is ego-on-parade; one saw his reaxion on C.N.N. Governor Walz should answer each piece of shimmering scheiße with: "I have to part to my response. First, liar, liar . . . ¡Vance on fire! Now back to [reality OR the question as stated] . . . ." That may be enough to drive the demagogue over the edge into a high-decibel abyss.
🤣
'On Thursday, September 12, Vance said on CNBC that if immigration were the path to prosperity, “America would be the most prosperous country in the world.” '
You fool, America IS the most prosperous country in the world. And immigration is one factor in that prosperity.
https://globalpeoservices.com/top-15-countries-by-gdp-in-2024/
"1. United States – Country GDP $25.43 trillion
A number of factors contribute to the success of the United States. An entrepreneurial environment that encourages hard work and long hours certainly helps. But decentralized government, advanced research universities, and favorable regulatory environments also contribute. The United States will likely always be in the top countries by GDP in the world. "
For once, JD spoke the truth, albeit by accident.
Future occurrences will be rarer than a Haitian Trump supporter.
Vance’s internship as irrational and divisive flame thrower is going well, except for the part where he is helping Trump lose. But keep in mind he not Trump is the chosen one of Peter Thiel and other rich tech bros.
Looks to me as though JD Vance is the more dangerous of the two candidates, if only because he has a longer life expectancy. It's time for the Karmic wheel to turn.
Most definitely. I wish Trump a long, well-protected life.
There have been some (silly) comments made that Trump's selection of Vance as his running mate was "life insurance". Very well might be somewhat true :-)
So, stochastic terrorism results from public statements inducing violence against a certain sector of the population but without geographic specificity. Direct terrorism is an act of violence against specific individuals or groups of people. What Vance and TFG are doing is pretty close to direct domestic terrorism, as they are targeting a defined group in a specific place. The consequences are both dangerous AND costly. Were I anywhere remotely associated to the effects of their public lies, I'd file both civil and criminal cases against them. I'd wrap them so tight in litigation that it would hurt to breathe. This is yet another unprecedented occurrence in our national politics. Unscrupulous individuals and their supporters are broadcasting injurious lies about groups identified as immigrant without the slightest basis in fact with real, measurable consequences to the public order and safety. Vance, a public official of high office, ought to be at least censured or preferably expelled from the Senate. TFG's secret service protection should be limited to places where they can assure adequate surveillance. Golf clubs, public rallies, campaign stops represent extraordinary service, IMHO. They should admit and define the limits of their ability to offer security. He can stay at the top of Trump Tower for as long as he desires. These two and their trailing crowd of sycophants are stacking civil and criminal misdeeds upon one another with no end in sight. The way we bring this serial set of clown's fire-drills to a close is to deprive them of their audience. Sadly, they seem able to attract an audience BY their behavior, with far too many willing spectators.
Ohio resident here and I agree with you. I also believe the media still are failing to cover the the true motives and consequences of Trump's and Vance's terrorism. My local NBC affiliate in Cincinnati framed horror in Springfield as "debate about immigration".
Indeed. This seems to me a practice run for possible future populace-controlling activity. It seems to be working fairly well.
Yes, sadly.
Be careful what you call "terrorism". It is a strong word and while many of us here might agree with you on concept, as a practical matter you need to do overt acts to actually be a terrorist, and except for the cases already filed against Trump, there is nothing I have seen that would justify that term against Trump. He certainly gives verbal support to people who very well MIGHT be terrorists, but that isn't terrorism itself. We still (thankfully) live in a world with freedom of speech. And Trump, regardless of how disgusting he is (and he is), has those same freedoms, just like you and me.
Agree 111%. These days, I find refraining from the mis-use of language to express emotion increasingly difficult to do. While my feelings parallel those of Kathleen, your call for reason in expression is a timely one. Thank you.
Jon, I want to explore your argument. When I read the 45th president's invitation to his adherents to travel to Washington DC for the January 6th events -- "...will be wild..." I thought I probably knew what he meant. As the events unfolded on Jan 6, it turned out that I, as well as many others, had understood his words perfectly. Later, in the wake of the events on Jan 6, when people were analyzing what happened, one observer offered the analogy of a mafia don giving instructions to one of his foot soldiers, with a wink and a nod, using no words that could be used against him in court. But the foot soldier understood exactly what he was asked to do.
If I, as a common citizen, had exhorted my followers to travel to W,DC to try to disrupt the proceedings of the Electoral College on Jan 6, the consequences would surely have been nil, nada, zilch. The consequences of free speech for me, compared to the consequences of free speech for the president, or any other high-profile public citizen, would surely be very different. I would argue, therefore, that I should be found innocent of a criminal conspiracy to violently overthrow the government of the United States, while the sitting president, who used precisely the same language, should not be given a pass.
To put it another way, in this scenario, I should enjoy immunity from prosecution, but the (former) president should not enjoy that same immunity. In stochastic terrorism, the implication is that there is no obvious direct coupling between the call to arms, and actual instantiation of taking up arms. The timing and the particulars of the event are made known by the architect or chief planner, but there is no obligation on the part of anyone to act on the instigator's instructions. So perhaps it could be seen as inadequate or imprecise to refer to the former president's behavior as "domestic terrorism" or similar accusations. Maybe we need a better, more accurate description. Either way, the effect of the former president's speech and behavior on the American people is the same. Many people are afraid to speak out about the former president's wrong-doing, for fear of retaliation by his followers. Whenever he wants something to happen in this regard, he and his followers understand each other well enough that things will happen as a consequence of his words and actions.
The former president should not be held to a lower standard. Immunity is a lower standard. The President should be held to a higher standard. The President should challenge the American people to act and become more ethical, to strive to demonstrate more exemplary behavior. The former president's errant ways need correction. Like, in a house of correction.
Well I respect your arguments but I think they are wrong. We do NOT in this country hold the President to a higher standard, at least with respect to speech. We are all citizens and we are all entitled to the SAME protections under the law. As for his comments on Jan 6, it clearly was a borderline situation, but he did NOT join the mob, just as a mafia don doesn't join the execution. But that is what insulates him. He did make mistakes though, when he made actual comments to the Georgia leaders encouraging them to violate the law by "finding" him extra votes. And for those, he was indicted.
I'll give him some credit. He has managed to demonstrate how flaws or inadequacies in our system can provide opportunities for a "domestic enemy" to take advantage of poorly-educated citizens, by using them to undermine various aspects of our society that depend on trust and good faith. It is difficult to know whether he is cunningly evil, or a bumbling rich kid who always managed to get away with his misdeeds and mistakes. In my view he is clearly not an asset to our nation. His effect on the body politic has been deleterious. He is clearly not a brilliant scholar who knows how to lead the American People to lofty heights of achievement in matters that would tend to ensure our long-term survival as a nation and a species. He has not encouraged the American People how to avoid rhetorical and logical fallacies in our daily discourse. He has not encouraged us to study and learn the history of our nation. We could argue that our founding authors did not intend our nation to become a free-for-all no-holds-barred struggle to see who comes out on top, in terms of wealth and power. He is a deeply-flawed human who should not be leading us. He is ill-prepared and unfit to lead us. But to his credit, he has shown us that somebody like him could lead us to our dissolution, without actually succeeding in that endeavor himself. Having already succeeded in that regard, we don't need to give him another opportunity to teach us the same lesson again. We don't need to repeat First Grade. Once is more than enough.
"We don't need to repeat first grade". On that we both emphatically AGREE!
Springfield will not be the last of it, unfortunately, no matter who wins the election, as long as Donald, JD, and Elon have a megaphone.
SPECIALLY if Kamala wins.
Great talking points, but virtually impossible to accomplish. (1) you as a private citizen can't file criminal charges against anyone. Civil cases you can file to your heart's content, but be prepared to actually have a case and be able to pay for it to the bitter end. (2) The Senate requires 2/3 vote to censure or expelled from the Senate. Not going to happen. The Democrats can barely muster a majority to pass anything and if they got close, the GOP would filibuster. (3) the law requires providing Secret Service protection. They can't decide to not provide it because they don't like where he goes. Again, to change that would require passing a new law about protection and the GOP House which can't even pass a budget bill isn't going to withdraw SS protection from Trump.
Its all great talking points, but sadly you have nothing substantial that could actually happen.
Jon Rosen, You are a very good troll. Take your 30 pieces of silver and go away.
I am sorry if you don't like reading facts. That is all I presented above. And actually I expect I would be a very BAD troll LOL. It would be hard to hide anything I sincerely believe in.
That is a ridiculous, offensive, and, possibly, anti-Semitic slur, Margaret. Utterly unfounded. One thing for sure: a different opinion does not make for a troll.
Jon and I butt heads all the time and I often have to take a deep breath to keep my my wits. Nevertheless, while hostile at times, Jon's arguments are well thought out and reasonable; often I find them persuasive.
Jon, you might benefit from being less aggressive in some of the words you choose. AND I welcome your arguments and appreciate the time you must be spending to devise them. Thank you, Sir.
Until the next joust. 😉
I apologize. I did not realize this was anti-Semitic nor did I intend it to be. Jon's arguments are well-thought-out, and also hostile. Perhaps he is looking for a negative reaction. He got it. A troll is someone who, regardless of their opinion, incites anger, defeatism, and (possibly over-) reaction.
I did not think so; thank you for clarifying your intentions. While Jon can be difficult, his abrasiveness does NOT make him a troll. Saying something that attacked you rather than your argument would make him a troll.
I respectfully disagree, Ned. Trolls come in all shapes. If he's trying to stir up trouble, if he's hostile, he's a troll.
Has anyone seen WHERE and WHEN the Rouge purchased his weapon and also all of the other weapons?
As a convicted felon every weapon in his possession is illegal.
It's time to prosecute every one that sold him any of his weapons. Let them rot in jail for awhile as a deterrent to other purveyors of guns.
Gary, it is likely impossible to trace the source of his weapon as I read from news reports that it had the serial number ground off. It was an illegal weapon from the get-go.
I read that he had several weapons. I wonder if any of them can be traced.
Link to excellent article with information new to me from Ohio Capital Journal:
https://ohiocapitaljournal.com/2024/09/17/amid-ongoing-threats-ohio-gop-us-senate-candidate-calls-for-deporting-springfield-legal-immigrants/?emci=a6f7f1ad-7274-ef11-991a-6045bda8aae9&emdi=e2a70298-db74-ef11-991a-6045bda8aae9&ceid=153544
Thank you, Kathleen. Why Governor Walz should say, at least once to Senator vance in the vice presidential debate, "Liar, liar . . . ¡Vance on fire!"
That is hilarious.
Would love to see how the M.A.G.A. maven would react.
Thank you. Well put.
¿Is 'stochastic' a malapropism?
Nothing random about the demagogy of M.A.G.A. ticket.
That demagogy does have unpredictable results coming from predictable reactions.
Wow … where to bring. Haitian immigrants story; I’m trying to find a source of something I read from a former Naval Officer I served with; The Haitians that came to Ohio to rebuild & reinvigorate the economy was approved by US DoS in 2017 (on trump’s watch).
Abortion story is sad, tragic… I urge everyone to read a story coming out in the October Atlantic magazine on who Docs are struggling with restrictions & how they have to or had to turn away women in medical distress.
Abortion in Ireland:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abortion_in_the_Republic_of_Ireland
It took only one death in Ireland to finally rid themselves of an abortion ban.
"Death of Savita Halappanavar
The death of Savita Halappanavar led to protests in 2012 calling for changes to Ireland's abortion laws and a highly public investigation by the Health Service Executive. After a miscarriage had been diagnosed, she was denied an abortion because the foetus's heart was still beating. She developed sepsis and died. The HSE enquiry found that her death was a result of inadequate assessment and monitoring and a failure to adhere to established clinical guidelines, and made several recommendations, including legislative and constitutional change."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Savita_Halappanavar
How many more mothers have to die?
All of them. It is not about life, it is about control of women's bodies.
"a convicted felon with a history of apparent mental illness"… well, seems the shooter has a lot in common with his target………
Tragic and bogus as the Haitian migrants lie is, it must be pointed out that Vance did *not* actually "admit to Dana Bash tat he had created the story of Haitian immigrants eating pets." When she sought to clarify that very point, i.e., whether he had made the story up, Vance insisted, 'no, it is true, what I mean by 'created' is that MMM has refused to cover the story so we have 'created a buzz', i.e., a story out of it. His intended meaning of 'created a story' was, he claims, 'forced it into the public eye'. This is not to defend Vance or the story by any means, it is simply to make sure we are fair to the context. The story is certainly fabricated, by neo-Nazis originally, but that does not mean that what Vance meant to say/claim in his interview with Bash can be mis-represented in our reporting, as if he "admitted" to blatantly fabricating the story. Misinterpreting him will only get us into trouble and complicate the debate, and wind up giving fodder to the false narrative by making us look like the ones spinning false narratives who can't get our stories straight. Sorry to be so forthright, but must get the details straight here. See PBS Politics Monday https://youtu.be/35ymt0yTbxs
RCharles Weller, respectively, you are wrong. PBS's video of the exchange between Dana Bash and Vance was edited signifigantly (for time, I imagine and hope) and so I understand how you could arrive at your conclusion.
PLEASE, I urge you to watch the CNN video of their exchange, easily found on YouTube. I watched it yesterday midday by myself prior to any reporting on the interview. In its entirety, you will see him realize, he has just publicly admitted he is lying because he pauses for a long, long, time and Dana states 3 times that you just said you made up the story. And he does all sorts of stalling, he pretends he didn't hear her question, then he gets angry and blames her. These are techniques of liars: stall to gain time to figure out what they should say next, never take responsibility for lying, deflect the conversation away from their wrongdoing when caught in a lie, often by yelling, raising their voice (imtimidation), blame the other person for their behavior of lying. He hit them all. Every single one of them. I tell you this from my personal experience of being in a long term relationship with a pathological liar.
He lied to propagate fear and anger for political gain with no concern for people's safety. He admitted that his claim was a lie publicly in the interview with Dana. He slipped up. So Plan B of liars took effect.
I agree with your assessment of the whole interview, M. Tree. Boy does Governor Walz have some lead in his boxing gloves for the vice presidential debate when this matter comes up: "Liar, liar . . . ¡Vance on fire!"
The only thing the M.A.G.A. V.P. candidate proved TO ME ALONE, in my mind, with that interview: that the junior (varsity) Senator of Ohio is better referred to as Senator shady J.D. Pants . . . on fire.
Thanks, MTree, not again that I’m interested in defending Vance here, but a pause and thinking are not absolute ‘evidence’. He claims the story is true and that what he meant by “created” was not ‘lying’, so to say he “admitted” to making up the story, period, does not adequately represent what he claimed to have said. In such a case we need to make clear the basis of our assertion, which in such a case would be something like ‘his pausing & fumbling proves he was lying.’ What really needs to be done is to press him to cite, clearly and specifically, the evidence he is basing his claims on, tie it properly to prior neo-Nazi propaganda, demonstrate its complete inadequacy to support the kind of claim he is making, and buttress that with the kind of counter evidence 100Panthers has highlighted about 500,000 Haitian immigrants in Florida and elsewhere across the country who are not eating up cats and dogs everywhere. Heather did some of this in an earlier post quite well, and she’s very accurate typically, but i do think here we need to be very clear and careful about precisely what Vance “admitted” and what he didn’t, within the full context of the interview.
RCharles Weller, I understand and agree that we shouldn't rush into judge people. I try hard not to do that. Instead, I watch and listen carefully to the person with my own eyes and ears, I look at patterns in their past behavior, and I compare it to the learning experiences in my life. He's a high level politician. Do you really think he has to try hard to get the media to listen to him? Come on now. He has BS layered on BS. What do you think his motive was for starting this rumor (that he claims isn't rumor, even though it has been a trope against others for centuries, a political ploy)? Genuine concern for his fellow human beings? OR. Inciting fear and anger as political strategy?
Very generally speaking, M Tree, you are using a valid form of argumentation. The problem is, it is so complex and psychological, and therefore built upon your own interpretation of non-verbal (i.e., non-explicit) ‘signs’ and ‘indicators’, and ultimately requires proving Vance is actually a conscious, *intentional* liar, that it creates an entirely separate deep and complex debate which can never be finally, clearly and unquestionably resolved. We again need to represent fairly and fully the context and then stick to the concrete, clear *historical* facts, as I outlined above.
RC, there is a body of research in controlled environments to assess the behaviors, thought patterns, physical cues, and other observable things to determine if someone is lying or telling the truth. What M Tree describes fits many of the behaviors and "tells" that are noted in the research.
As someone who had both received that training, and had the opportunity to interview people in both stressful and non stressful situations, where people had a vested interest in the outcome and when they did not, what M Tree reports causes me to agree with his assessment.
Ally House (Oregon), the last couple responses, one to you and one to me, from RC seem robotic and somewhat nonsensical. Am I even talking to a real person?
Thank you. As indicated, I generally agree, but this is not what Heather said in her piece, it would require a completely different framing of the issue in order to be accurate and fair to the context.
RCharles Weller, it's not complex. Here's the steps:
1. Observe someone's behavior,
2. Look and see if there are patterns in their past behavior.
3. Use learning experiences in your own life to come to a conclusion about the behavior.
We humans do this all the time, usually unconciously. You seem to be advocating against looking to see if you are being manipulated by someone's ego. As for me, I'll keep being watchful and think on my own about people's behavior. There's a saying, "If you can't see the con, you might be the mark."
Nor will I continue engaging with someone who begins to resort to personal attacks upon my 'sense' of judgment and/or 'reality of being'.
I won’t bother repeating what i just said above.
My answer to your initial comment applies here, too, RCharles. One difference I have with you and my first comment is that there is not enough time in an interview on a highly segmented Sunday news review show to dive deeply into detail. I agree with you in spirit, RCharles. 🤝
Yet, there is a simpler way to skin that cat . . . ¡oops! That would be for Ms Bash to have requested that Senator Vance send documentation, redacted for identities, to C.N.N. with the pledge that the network would acknowledge, perhaps permit Senator Vance to present, it on the air. ⚖️
Had Ms Bash done this -- and there may very well have been policies not permitting her to do so -- I suspect (unto conviction) that Senator pants on fire would have been hostile and attacked Ms Bash by saying something like, "Don't you tell me how to do my job!" 😡
¿Why the conviction on my part? 🤔
Because, when I was young and before my ego got obliterated rightfully, I was an brat; life and the people in it were nothing more than a game for me to win through the language games of ideology. Senator Vance reeks of that cheapening ambition wherein he ranks as the G-d of a universe of one. 😰
Being far more intelligent and stronger than I, he has advanced a lot further before hitting the bricks as he may be hitting them now. Then the choice, harder to countenance than defeat, comes: ¿do I accept my fallen state and try to re-build my character? 😳
Or, as in the case of candidate Trump showing us every day, ¿do I re-structure the reality around me to re-fashion my fallen state into some more marketable persona? Of course, I am likely reading way too much of me into other people's equation. Vince Lombardi must be turning in his grave. 🤢
Thanks for the clarification! We can not afford to be sloppy with facts especially because they are fabricating 'facts'. LMAO Florida has the largest Haitian population in America (over 500,000) and we have neither seen nor heard such ca ca! We 'got cats and dogs a plenty'!
Yep. (I read it).
I appreciate your point. I had an opposing view piece in my Substack feed today that was more cohesive & plausible than much of what we see. What was striking, however, was a complete lack of citation. In critical thinking it's necessary to be able to drill down through echo chambers to see how trustworthy statements of original events. It serves us to be mindful of using precise language. Simply exchanging accusations of "liar, liar" doesn't go anywhere. While it's true there is much that are simple outright lies, it is more informative to know a fuller context of Vance being deliberate misleading. That's the advantage we have, being able to support our opinions, without blind faith in allegations & speculation. It's the difference between celebrity/influencer culture & what we deem authoritive based on merit. It's impossible to avoid the outlandish because our landscape has become truly bizarre, but consistently precise language, as has long been demonstrated in these letters, makes all the difference. It's been a mistake to pull punches, but punches are more effective well & clearly stated. The way I see it, our political fight was previously a choice between optics & substance. Optics & subterfuge gained a lot of ground. I don't think one political party is perfect, but I believe we're now seeing the Democratic party master optics while retaining necessary substance. A long comment to say, I agree, language is important! Lol.
I must agree with you, RCharles. Thanks.
Morning, Lynell. It's been a minute... Hope all is well.
Morning, Ally! All good here!
I disagree. Senator Vance knew, at least soon enough, that the 'creole cat crisis' was a rumour and either knew, or shortly found out, that it had been refuted by other Republicans. He elevated rumour to fact and kept it there. What Ms Bash might have done is to have asked him for redacted e-mails or other documentation confirming this activity.
Harris and Walz should visit Springfield Ohio to let those citizens and people of Ohio know they are valued.
And Trump has stated a desire to visit Springfield as well. I would not expect a warm welcome.
He will likely receive one -- perhaps with a counter-protest -- rural pockets in Northern industrial states have a lot of support for the M.A.G.A. ticket.
That is a great idea, Ed. Perhaps pass it along to Vice President Harris directly.
https://www.whitehouse.gov/contact/vicepresident/
That gesture might well pique the sense of decency within the undecideds toward voting for unity. The national audience would be seeing states(wo)manship and leadership in action. Especially in showing good-will toward the harried and compassionate REPUBLICAN mayor of Springfield.
EDIT: And take along embattled incumbent, Senator Sherrod Brown.
Thank you, Heather, for keeping me informed. Perhaps not the thing to read to put myself back to sleep though.
I did OK after reading part of it last night. Chose not to read any comments until this morning. The Professor is on west coast time, and I get to go see her tonight in Portland, OR (and meet up with some fellow LFAA University students as well!)
Super lucky you, Ally. Give her a shoutout from all her Substack fans.
I agree with Steve Brant. Shouldn't it be newsworthy if a candidate for Vice President of the USA declares he made up a lie that then had terrible effects for a town and for its population? Shouldn't the media then be discussing what that means for believing anything that person says?