Because you know how to end a war??? Hahaha. You think more of yourself then most. Yes, it should end. How to do it appropriately is always the big question, isn’t it? If Trump were in Half of Europe would be leveled by now. Maybe you should tell Biden you’ll be his adviser since you know so much.
Because you know how to end a war??? Hahaha. You think more of yourself then most. Yes, it should end. How to do it appropriately is always the big question, isn’t it? If Trump were in Half of Europe would be leveled by now. Maybe you should tell Biden you’ll be his adviser since you know so much.
Ad hominem attacks are the lowest form of discussion. Do you think that because I oppose Biden's actions, I am a trumpster? Do you have any Palestinian friends? Have you been to Gaza? (I have, if that means anything.) My wanting an end to ethnic cleansing makes me think more of myself than most? I suggest you read _The Hundred Years' War on Palestine_ by Rashid Khalidi, professor at Columbia University.
There are many well resourced books and papers written that reflect both sides. Noam Chomsky can give you lots of facts regarding both sides of this complex issue.
Harold, don't bother arguing with these people. They like to gang up on commenters they disagree with. It's why I rarely do so anymore. This is a form of social media that accomplishes nothing because it's a meeting of the self righteous and nothing more. Peace.
I think that their message has been devastatingly poor. They need to immediately call for a ceasefire. Immediately. They are saying “𝘞𝘦𝘭𝘭, 𝘭𝘰𝘰𝘬, 𝘐𝘴𝘳𝘢𝘦𝘭 𝘩𝘢𝘴 𝘢 𝘳𝘪𝘨𝘩𝘵 𝘵𝘰 𝘥𝘦𝘧𝘦𝘯𝘥 𝘪𝘵𝘴𝘦𝘭𝘧.”
The messaging from the Biden administration has been—it’s hard to even find the words to describe this. It’s as if it’s been designed to insult the feelings and intelligence of everybody in the region outside the Israelis. This is not about democracies coming under attack. The Israelis run a military occupation and an apartheid regime. Half the Israeli public was up in arms over the direction that its government was going to undermine the rights that they had as Israeli Jews, and you have Joe Biden talking about democracies coming under attack. For people in the Third World who hear this, it sounds like it’s coming from another planet.
Hamas’ attack on Israeli civilians was unconscionable; Israel’s collective punishment of people in Gaza—notably the cutting off of water, food, and electricity—was as well; and that “𝘰𝘯𝘦 𝘮𝘶𝘴𝘵 𝘢𝘥𝘥𝘳𝘦𝘴𝘴 𝘵𝘩𝘦 𝘤𝘰𝘯𝘵𝘦𝘹𝘵 𝘰𝘧 𝘰𝘤𝘤𝘶𝘱𝘢𝘵𝘪𝘰𝘯 𝘢𝘯𝘥 𝘢𝘱𝘢𝘳𝘵𝘩𝘦𝘪𝘥 𝘪𝘯 𝘸𝘩𝘪𝘤𝘩 𝘵𝘩𝘪𝘴 𝘪𝘴 𝘶𝘯𝘧𝘰𝘭𝘥𝘪𝘯𝘨.”
There’s an argument that says: Hamas started this, Hamas embeds itself amongst the population, so anything that happens to the Palestinians of Gaza will be laid at Hamas’ door. You cannot cut off water, food, fuel, electricity, medical supplies, humanitarian systems, bomb pretty much indiscriminately, force the relocation of half the civilians in Gaza and say that’s OK. It’s patently not.
It’s not that Biden or other American leaders got up and said—I echo the call of the Israeli president and there’s no distinction between civilians and combatants, or I echo the defense minister who called the people in Gaza beasts. It’s not that the American leadership said those things, but by not empathizing with the situation of the civilians in Gaza, which became dreadful and devastating very quickly, American political leaders were feeding into a discourse.
I am still going with considerable power, which becomes very difficult to apply if you shackle yourself politically.
One factor is the unprecedented unity in Israel around this, up against the backdrop of what was the most politicized political climate in Israel ever before October 7th.
The only way the US may be able to actually assert that influence on Israel will be to assert it publicly directly against Bibi. And I don’t think the administration wants to go there. And it may be that if the Israelis don’t want to do what you’re saying and you’re not willing to say it in public, then you have a real problem.
By allowing Israel to believe that this could be managed so easily at so little cost because whatever you do America would have your back—that America would guarantee that there were no consequences—it was about the worst thing America could have done.
The kind of nonchalance that contributed to the systemic failure and the deep corrosion in parts of the Israeli system also result from that. In the quarter century since the peace process really started going off a cliff, you would have had a different Israeli public conversation if the US had not pursued this indulgent line.
I did activism for Palestinian rights for several years, and what I see in Biden is all the anodyne, boilerplate pro-Israel crap I heard over and over again. I am so disappointed in him because even though he changed his rhetoric once he was criticized for his bias, he was showing what he believes in his heart, as ugly as it is to admit to himself. For decades, any criticism of Israel's illegal occupation of Palestinian land was considered antisemitism. In fact, this is how it is, at lest in mainstream media. Israel's current government has been working toward this end game - to exhaust Palestinian resistance so that Israel can easily annex the rest of the West Bank.
The farce called Israeli "democracy" is on the same path as ours, which dooms everyone.
Because you know how to end a war??? Hahaha. You think more of yourself then most. Yes, it should end. How to do it appropriately is always the big question, isn’t it? If Trump were in Half of Europe would be leveled by now. Maybe you should tell Biden you’ll be his adviser since you know so much.
Ad hominem attacks are the lowest form of discussion. Do you think that because I oppose Biden's actions, I am a trumpster? Do you have any Palestinian friends? Have you been to Gaza? (I have, if that means anything.) My wanting an end to ethnic cleansing makes me think more of myself than most? I suggest you read _The Hundred Years' War on Palestine_ by Rashid Khalidi, professor at Columbia University.
There are many well resourced books and papers written that reflect both sides. Noam Chomsky can give you lots of facts regarding both sides of this complex issue.
Harold, don't bother arguing with these people. They like to gang up on commenters they disagree with. It's why I rarely do so anymore. This is a form of social media that accomplishes nothing because it's a meeting of the self righteous and nothing more. Peace.
Marycat2021 3 hrs ago - "Harold, don't bother arguing with these people. ... It's why I rarely do so anymore."
Not true... and doing yourself a disservice.
I wasn't arguing. I was merely asking questions to help me understand a very complicated issue. One that is way beyond my ability to figure out alone.
𝗪𝗵𝗮𝘁 𝗱𝗼 𝘆𝗼𝘂 𝘁𝗵𝗶𝗻𝗸 𝗣𝗿𝗲𝘀𝗶𝗱𝗲𝗻𝘁 𝗕𝗶𝗱𝗲𝗻 𝗮𝗻𝗱 𝗵𝗶𝘀 𝗮𝗱𝗺𝗶𝗻𝗶𝘀𝘁𝗿𝗮𝘁𝗶𝗼𝗻 𝘀𝗵𝗼𝘂𝗹𝗱 𝗯𝗲 𝗱𝗼𝗶𝗻𝗴 𝘁𝗵𝗮𝘁 𝘁𝗵𝗲𝘆 𝗵𝗮𝘃𝗲 𝗻𝗼𝘁 𝗯𝗲𝗲𝗻 𝗱𝗼𝗶𝗻𝗴?
I think that their message has been devastatingly poor. They need to immediately call for a ceasefire. Immediately. They are saying “𝘞𝘦𝘭𝘭, 𝘭𝘰𝘰𝘬, 𝘐𝘴𝘳𝘢𝘦𝘭 𝘩𝘢𝘴 𝘢 𝘳𝘪𝘨𝘩𝘵 𝘵𝘰 𝘥𝘦𝘧𝘦𝘯𝘥 𝘪𝘵𝘴𝘦𝘭𝘧.”
The messaging from the Biden administration has been—it’s hard to even find the words to describe this. It’s as if it’s been designed to insult the feelings and intelligence of everybody in the region outside the Israelis. This is not about democracies coming under attack. The Israelis run a military occupation and an apartheid regime. Half the Israeli public was up in arms over the direction that its government was going to undermine the rights that they had as Israeli Jews, and you have Joe Biden talking about democracies coming under attack. For people in the Third World who hear this, it sounds like it’s coming from another planet.
https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2023/10/two-state-solution-dead-one-state-reality-yousef-munayyer/?utm_source=mj-newsletters&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=daily-newsletter-10-27-2023
“𝘋𝘰 𝘺𝘰𝘶 𝘳𝘦𝘢𝘭𝘭𝘺 𝘬𝘦𝘦𝘱 𝘢 𝘴𝘵𝘳𝘢𝘪𝘨𝘩𝘵 𝘧𝘢𝘤𝘦 𝘸𝘩𝘦𝘯 𝘺𝘰𝘶 𝘴𝘢𝘺 𝘵𝘩𝘢𝘵? 𝘋𝘰 𝘺𝘰𝘶 𝘵𝘩𝘪𝘯𝘬 𝘵𝘦𝘳𝘳𝘰𝘳𝘪𝘴𝘵 𝘰𝘳𝘨𝘢𝘯𝘪𝘻𝘢𝘵𝘪𝘰𝘯𝘴 𝘦𝘮𝘣𝘦𝘥𝘥𝘦𝘥 𝘪𝘯 𝘱𝘰𝘱𝘶𝘭𝘢𝘵𝘪𝘰𝘯𝘴 𝘸𝘩𝘰 𝘢𝘳𝘦 𝘥𝘦𝘯𝘪𝘦𝘥 𝘵𝘩𝘦𝘪𝘳 𝘮𝘰𝘴𝘵 𝘣𝘢𝘴𝘪𝘤 𝘳𝘪𝘨𝘩𝘵𝘴 𝘢𝘳𝘦 𝘦𝘯𝘥𝘦𝘥 𝘰𝘯𝘤𝘦 𝘢𝘯𝘥 𝘧𝘰𝘳 𝘢𝘭𝘭 𝘪𝘯 𝘢 𝘮𝘪𝘭𝘪𝘵𝘢𝘳𝘺 𝘤𝘢𝘮𝘱𝘢𝘪𝘨𝘯? 𝘋𝘰𝘦𝘴 𝘵𝘩𝘢𝘵 𝘩𝘢𝘱𝘱𝘦𝘯 𝘪𝘯 𝘩𝘪𝘴𝘵𝘰𝘳𝘺?”
Hamas’ attack on Israeli civilians was unconscionable; Israel’s collective punishment of people in Gaza—notably the cutting off of water, food, and electricity—was as well; and that “𝘰𝘯𝘦 𝘮𝘶𝘴𝘵 𝘢𝘥𝘥𝘳𝘦𝘴𝘴 𝘵𝘩𝘦 𝘤𝘰𝘯𝘵𝘦𝘹𝘵 𝘰𝘧 𝘰𝘤𝘤𝘶𝘱𝘢𝘵𝘪𝘰𝘯 𝘢𝘯𝘥 𝘢𝘱𝘢𝘳𝘵𝘩𝘦𝘪𝘥 𝘪𝘯 𝘸𝘩𝘪𝘤𝘩 𝘵𝘩𝘪𝘴 𝘪𝘴 𝘶𝘯𝘧𝘰𝘭𝘥𝘪𝘯𝘨.”
There’s an argument that says: Hamas started this, Hamas embeds itself amongst the population, so anything that happens to the Palestinians of Gaza will be laid at Hamas’ door. You cannot cut off water, food, fuel, electricity, medical supplies, humanitarian systems, bomb pretty much indiscriminately, force the relocation of half the civilians in Gaza and say that’s OK. It’s patently not.
It’s not that Biden or other American leaders got up and said—I echo the call of the Israeli president and there’s no distinction between civilians and combatants, or I echo the defense minister who called the people in Gaza beasts. It’s not that the American leadership said those things, but by not empathizing with the situation of the civilians in Gaza, which became dreadful and devastating very quickly, American political leaders were feeding into a discourse.
𝗛𝗼𝘄 𝗺𝘂𝗰𝗵 𝗽𝗼𝘄𝗲𝗿 𝗱𝗼 𝘆𝗼𝘂 𝘁𝗵𝗶𝗻𝗸 𝘁𝗵𝗲 𝗨𝗦 𝗵𝗮𝘀 𝘁𝗼 𝗽𝗿𝗲𝘃𝗲𝗻𝘁 𝗜𝘀𝗿𝗮𝗲𝗹 𝗳𝗿𝗼𝗺 𝗰𝗮𝘂𝘀𝗶𝗻𝗴 𝗺𝗼𝗿𝗲 𝗱𝗲𝗮𝘁𝗵 𝗮𝗻𝗱 𝘀𝘂𝗳𝗳𝗲𝗿𝗶𝗻𝗴 𝗶𝗻 𝗚𝗮𝘇𝗮 𝘁𝗵𝗮𝗻 𝗶𝘁 𝗮𝗹𝗿𝗲𝗮𝗱𝘆 𝗵𝗮𝘀?
I am still going with considerable power, which becomes very difficult to apply if you shackle yourself politically.
One factor is the unprecedented unity in Israel around this, up against the backdrop of what was the most politicized political climate in Israel ever before October 7th.
𝗚𝗶𝘃𝗲𝗻 𝘁𝗵𝗲 𝗹𝗲𝘃𝗲𝗿𝗮𝗴𝗲 𝘁𝗵𝗲 𝗨𝗻𝗶𝘁𝗲𝗱 𝗦𝘁𝗮𝘁𝗲𝘀 𝗵𝗮𝘀, 𝘄𝗵𝗮𝘁 𝗱𝗼 𝘆𝗼𝘂 𝗺𝗮𝗸𝗲 𝗼𝗳 𝘄𝗵𝗮𝘁 𝗕𝗶𝗱𝗲𝗻 𝗵𝗮𝘀 𝗱𝗼𝗻𝗲 𝗮𝗻𝗱 𝘀𝗮𝗶𝗱 𝘀𝗼 𝗳𝗮𝗿?
The only way the US may be able to actually assert that influence on Israel will be to assert it publicly directly against Bibi. And I don’t think the administration wants to go there. And it may be that if the Israelis don’t want to do what you’re saying and you’re not willing to say it in public, then you have a real problem.
By allowing Israel to believe that this could be managed so easily at so little cost because whatever you do America would have your back—that America would guarantee that there were no consequences—it was about the worst thing America could have done.
The kind of nonchalance that contributed to the systemic failure and the deep corrosion in parts of the Israeli system also result from that. In the quarter century since the peace process really started going off a cliff, you would have had a different Israeli public conversation if the US had not pursued this indulgent line.
https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2023/10/daniel-levy-q-and-a-impact-of-united-states-support-for-israel-gaza-hamas/?utm_source=mj-newsletters&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=daily-newsletter-10-27-2023
I did activism for Palestinian rights for several years, and what I see in Biden is all the anodyne, boilerplate pro-Israel crap I heard over and over again. I am so disappointed in him because even though he changed his rhetoric once he was criticized for his bias, he was showing what he believes in his heart, as ugly as it is to admit to himself. For decades, any criticism of Israel's illegal occupation of Palestinian land was considered antisemitism. In fact, this is how it is, at lest in mainstream media. Israel's current government has been working toward this end game - to exhaust Palestinian resistance so that Israel can easily annex the rest of the West Bank.
The farce called Israeli "democracy" is on the same path as ours, which dooms everyone.