Hopefully, the United States is not in a position where the only way to get votes is to purchase them through goodies handed out at the expense of others.
Which, is what student loan forgiveness is. Now, hold on, before you guys get too angry at me, in many cases I am in full support. A lot of those loans were handed out by sha…
Hopefully, the United States is not in a position where the only way to get votes is to purchase them through goodies handed out at the expense of others.
Which, is what student loan forgiveness is. Now, hold on, before you guys get too angry at me, in many cases I am in full support. A lot of those loans were handed out by sharks ripping off people trying to make the best of a tough life.
For example, at Union College, an expensive private college that is mostly white, many students attended on loans even though they had wealthy parents. The loans were used by their parents for their busineses (low interest loans right?).
However, covering the cost of those loans has to come out of someone's pocket, never mind that Ronald Reagan got us all thinking that printing money is free and nobody ever has to pay up.
That is wrong.
So, I personally hope that we can hold our Democracy without handing out money at the polling stations. I really do.
Isn’t there an application process? I do not believe that all will be eligible for the benefit. Nonetheless there are always those on any returns who take advantage. That should not stop us from helping those truly in need.
When we applied and were granted loans in the 1960s, college, even with student residents, was so so inexpensive and the loan money often paid for non educational perks. Often the loan was a grant. Even better. But “those were the days, my friend, we thought they’d never end.” Not that we want to repeat those years. Not at all. But corporations have too much power and they are running our economy and economic inequality.
Yes. When I was in college in the 60s and 70s, I could "pay as I went" with small loans and working two part time jobs, so I graduated from both undergraduate and graduate school with no debt. This was largely possible because public universities were subsidized since it was considered an asset to the country if people got an education. That's no longer the case, and no longer possible so that if there was no help for those who can't afford college, then there would only be rich kids going to college. Burdening college graduates with unbelievable debt hurts us all. It's time we reconsidered using the capitalist strategy for absolutely everything since this only benefits a small portion of the population.
Same here. Small loans all repaid and federal grants and scholarships. Graduate school was $22 a credit hour and the loan interest rate was 3% fixed. Edited: (my point being, the system was a lot more fair in the 60's and 70's especially for low income kids. I could not afford college today even while working.)
I actually took out small personal loans from the student services center short term loan program, and paid it back over the term. I believe there was almost no interest on these loans.
I, too, worked part-time (two jobs). I also enjoyed the benefit of the GI Bill. Ended up in night school as I opted to start a career in the private business sector. No debt. That took a bit longer, but it was a success.
Student loans have become preditory. Colleges now want to be profitable institutions. It is as though what was "up" now is "down"; and, vice versa. The concepts about what was ethically moral went out the window long ago.
You are correct. I saw a bumper sticker yesterday - "I'll believe corporations are people when Texas executes one." Someone inside me I see a connection with these huge profts being gathered at a time when sharing a partion would be so good for both the country and real people - not that I ever equated oil/gas corporation with "real" people. But even grocery store chains are playing that Greed Game. I say give the students a break. God knows they need one.
Ahh yes, corporations...They.., are deemed a citizen.., no? Somehow that needs to be erased! Enough of this governance by reprobates ($$$$.$$). After all, "they" are so fat, as keepers of the kitchen where bowls of gruel are handed out to the eager hands of the sloggers who have no voice. We individuals have been saddled by a holocaust of a different making. "They" are so pleased to hobble the real issues, like Womens Rights(!!!) with the ever-distracting, religion-driven word 'abortion'. Or, and this may sound trite, but virtually no mention (by them) of "gasoline" prices (lowered), and ZERO concern for the truckers who are being whacked by the price of diesel. A factor that Democrats or our simple-minded news medics seem unconcerned with. Like, when.., is the last time you heard "diesel" mentioned? The "truckers" of this nation VOTE, in addition to listening to talk-radio mile after mile. Those folks are absorbed by Faux news and "They" love it too.
Interesting, “holocaust of a different making.” As a trucker light, Only 2000000 miles driven, home 2 days per month, 20 hour workdays, paychecks absorbed by every state of the union at so-called safety and regulation check stations, treated as a criminal by local law enforcement agencies, hounded at night for my 4 hours sleep by desperate women, many college students by day, my relief was to listen to talk radio. Corporate America bringing you Rush Limburger in stereo throughout the day. Listening to Rush and dodging the road rage what could possibly be wrong? A free corporate shower every 2-4 days. I managed to get the groceries there on time. The money that I salvaged went straight to 3 of my children’s university costs, as did my schoolteacher wife’s entire salary. Just the all American over achievers grab it and growl sort of family. Were it not for Limberger’s wisdom we would never have known how hard the Democrats used us. I was so glad when the last child matriculated.WHEW! Thinking now about those days I begin to see the wisdom of a public education through an undergraduate degree. Somehow, despite their dad being an absentee father, they worked, we helped, we won. Still need a public education. Let me tell you jealous bastards one more time. Public education = 16 years. Ignorance is not bliss. We are nearly “pickled” by undereducation. If we can afford smart bombs then we can damn sure afford smart children!
Right, Irenie. I borrowed $6000 to get my MSW. It took only three years to pay it off, primarily because I got a good paying job right after graduation. That's the way it was supposed to work.
And we won't be holding our breath for those grifters to return that money, will we? Sure hope we've learned THAT lesson. While I understand the urgency of getting that federal money out to states and cities to keep their essential employees paid and on the job back during the pandemic, the same error was made that happened back in 2008-09 during that recession. The federal government rushed to bail out banks (too big to fail) and the auto industry. The rush jumped right over the steps of tracking the money to be sure it went to those who really qualified (not people like Jared Kushner and Trump businesses - who got in line ASAP and got money) and to ensure state and local government levels had systems in place to catch money before it was hacked off by scams (which happened). Perhaps we can share some of the blame with Trump who cancelled out a lot of programs that were in place to protect and prevent such scams - scams being his most successful business ventures.
You mean people cheat?? I was always in favor of spending money to nail the cheats, be they tax cheats, Medicare or whatever. Lordy, we could wipe out our national debt in no time. We are a nation of legal cheats…how dare we tighten the screws, how dare we not.
I know personally some very rich men. They have worked very hard to get to where they are financially. Yet it is so hypocritical when the constantly voice utter exasperation at all the "poor, lazy people"who cheat on their welfare type assistance and yet they literally pay more to hide/shelter/ finagle their income...and tax liability to avoid paying it to the state or federal tax boards than their actual tax liability...how do I know this...they brag about it...
With every social program there will be people who take advantage. It's human nature. That's not a good enough reason to not have the program. If we expect that a small number of people will stop trying to scam the system then we are mistaken. It's a price that has to be paid if we are to level the playing field for the larger majority of people who need it. We may need to improve how the programs are administered, but that's also a work in progress.
A fine comment J. I came to this conclusion long ago, amidst the cry about give-aways from righties (Ronnie being their big bully pulpit megaphone). A government program that helps the needy is bound to be taken advantage of by greedy persons who see an opportunity. Thankfully (or hopefully) the numbers are small. But Republicans (who say to pull yourself up by your boot straps, yet hiding your boots from you), point to the exceptions and scream about big program inefficiencies and ineffectiveness, and the duplicity of the people the program was meant to help. Or that the program is a de-motivator to help oneself. And, of course, being unwilling to provide the funds to properly administer the program. It is an evil and cynical way to look at society.
It is totally without conscience to view other members of your species with such contempt and of course reveals a lot about those who view people that way and very little about the targets of their contempt. And, they never refer to the give-aways they advocate - welfare for corporations, agribusiness, and the weapons industry.
The billions in corporate entitlements and billions lost in taxes sheltered by the ultra wealthy every year, the lack of any real attempt to investigate and recover some of the PPP loans fraudulently received and the billions scammed from medicare by the privatization scam of medicare+ are not a concern. The deficit has DECREASED by nearly 1.5 trillion under Biden despite his desire to keep his campaign promises and help millions of Americans struggling to live the American dream.
The problem Mike is that Republicans have abandoned all forms of public investment. They have stopped investing in public education and colleges after setting up land grant colleges in each state. Two of my daughters graduated from Cornell, originally established as a land grant agricultural college. The AG school still has instate tuition at half of the now private Cornell University. It helps, but all other fees, room & board, with amenities like food courts and gyms with climbing walls are too expensive for most students. Hence extremely huge loans. My father graduated from Cornell in engineering thanks to the GI Bill. He was the first on both sides of our family to attend college.
The loan forgiveness is a back end solution. Not the best solution. We should invest in free or extremely affordable public higher education as an option to expensive private education.
Republicans supported rural healthcare after WWII with establishing "critical access" hospitals. Maine has about 29 hospitals. About half were critical access fully supported by the Federal government. They had less than 25 beds, surgery, emergency and provided critical healthcare for most of the local population. Now many of these hospitals are closing or have such reduced services that most patients much travel hours for services they once got in their community.
Republicans once supported the cleaning up and protection of the environment. Nixon's administration created the EPA, which helped clean up the Hudson River returning from a nearly dead and poisonous river to a relatively clean and safe river for recreational and domestic water use.
Most of our attempts to save or get back to these values are back end bandaid that will never be as good as dead on pragmatic solutions.
We must overcome the current Republican obstruction and destruction. And promote people who think and do as Lincoln did.
Your argument makes no sense. You say a small amount of students at a private college with wealthy parents took out loans to pay for school and instead let mommy and daddy use the loan money for business. Then, those students of wealthy parents did not pay back their loans because they did not care about their credit rating or need for transportation and housing, and are now going to get some benefit from loan forgiveness.
Mike, it is my understanding that the student loan forgiveness program is designed for those making under $75000 per year. It would seem unlikely that the graduates from wealthy families that you describe would be in that category.
It refers to the borrower’s income, not their family’s (ie; parents), if that’s what you meant. There is a post here, up or down thread, with a link to the .gov site that explains the whole thing & application as well. Having worked in college student financial aid for 40+ years, with a lot of experience in loan counseling for students/parents, this forgiveness is a start in a process, loans and other aid, that needs to be revamped for current and future student needing financial assistance to attend college. Here in CA I watched as a state that once had an envied CC/CSU/UC system eroded by changes in state support. We need to invest in education from pre-K through college IMHO.
Student loan forgiveness must be the opening salvo in change that MUST come regarding the “business” of higher education.
Public education being regarded as K-12 is incorrect. It is entirely possible to create a degree program synonymous with the completion of a student’s journey through free and public education. To subject any capable student to a molehill or mountain of debt is a form of economic enslavement.
And the current Republican agenda of indoctrination of our students is not the answer in a Democratic nation. The answer is the complete and utter transformation of the architecture of public education. To me, that became sorely obvious during the pandemic.
I can go on and on…….hopefully conversation will evolve regarding this topic. It has seriously started in some circles.
There are rotten apples in every barrel. While understanding your point of view, having just calculated what a no vacation, no paid sick leave, and no affordable medical insurance, $15 an hour job brings in, I want those who had the courage to borrow for education and then were charged higher rates by lenders, to have their loans forgiven, even if some of those who receive forgiveness unfairly also do.
1) The loans forgiveness in question applies to federally funded loans, such as Pell grants to low income people. The maximum forgiveness is $20,000 for Pell borrowers, $10,000 for others. People who owe less than that, having paid off some of their debt already, get only their balance forgiven. People who owe more than the forgiveness amount must continue to make payments starting in January. (Payments were not required during the pandemic.)
2) I know people who have heard that all student loans will be forgiven. Not true. Borrowers who made over $125K as shown on their tax returns for 2020 or 2021 are not eligible for any loan forgiveness. Nor loans from private lenders.
3) I am much more critical of the abuses of Paycheck Protection Plan loans, a much bigger expense to taxpayers than student loans. Other countries administered their similar pandemic programs with far less fraud. A reason we did so poorly has to do with our aging computer systems not allowing agencies to rapidly share information already collected.
4) In the good old days students could work their way through school and graduate on schedule. Today’s cost of education is way up, but the federal minimum hourly wage, $7.25, has not changed since 2009.
Mike S, 'Twould seem handing out money at the polling stations is a more effective way to get it into the hands of relatively ordinary Americans than handing out the billions in dark money to the politicians...
I hope that this loan forgiveness doesnt get used like the PPL loans - where far too many individuals & businesses took advantage of them. As someone else here mentioned - lack of tracking appears to be something our government has issues with. But as a grandmother to a child that had a Pell Grant & several scholarships with a single mom who took out a loan for the remainder - yeah, I really would like to see this program be successful - in other words - help the people who NEED the help. What a novel experience that would be.
You have an excellent point, Mike. I don't begrudge student loan forgiveness. My husband and I were able to pay for our three daughters' college and post-college educations so they would not be burdened for years by student debt. However, many who owe tens of thousands of dollars cannot get ahead in life. If you have $100,000 in student loans, you work most of your life to pay off those debts and with the impact of Covid the past few years, many people cannot even find jobs or their work has been scaled back. Forget about the possibility of buying a home. Many people who paid for college resent this, but I do not. Many minorities are unable build family wealth and get ahead in life. All the money we shell out as taxpayers, be it to student debt forgiveness or to support the war in Ukraine, has to come from somewhere. I support both efforts.
The USA is in an awful position in that it charges so much for college. That has happened because people have to pay for it themselves. Ronald Reagan is the one who came up with this genius plan. Think of all of the diseases that might have already been cured if we had free college education and everyone could go who wanted to. Now the price is just prohibitive. Here is a not exhaustive list of countries where one pays little or no tuition to go to university. https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/countries-with-free-college Some of the ones with nominal tuition really have nominal tuition. Not just for their citizens, but for others. These people then graduate and contribute to their economies. So, they can attract the best and the brightest from around the world. They can attract students for areas where they have a shortage. We can attract the wealthiest. The amount of debt that some people are in after college is so much that they will never get out of it. They cannot file bankruptcy either. It is also meaning that parents have to work for a super long time to send their children to college. It is lowering the standard of living for both parents and children. I have a single mother friend who has to stay in a job where she is poorly treated because she cannot afford to work in a better environment and send her daughter to college. The amount that she is expected to pay is a lot also. It makes no sense. Too bad Americans are not used to thinking of going abroad. My daughter and one classmate are the only ones in their grade applying in another country. The previous year two students went abroad but to American schools where they did not need to learn the language. Again, we are not really preparing our students to deal with the world on the level that other countries are.
My daughter got her tuition free medical degree in Cuba about seven years ago. Cuba is about the size of Tennessee and trained about half as many first degree doctors as the US. About half or more of those came from other Latin American countries and Affrica. All were taught in Spanish. So now my daughter is bilingual. Cuba is a low cost economy relative to ours. Housing was free for first year in a dormitory transformed from military housing. Rooms in private homes or modest apartments could then be rented at small monthly fees at a fraction of US student housing. All food was self prepared. Our daughter graduated with a dozen other low income Americans for which Cuba's international medical school was intended for. American students were selected for their grit for living without affluent comfort and desire to work in underserved areas. NM recruited our daughter for residency in their rural health and clinic services with a high number of Hispanics. They gave her a fellowship in rural emergency medicine. Between Cuba's six year program, four years of US residency and fellowship, she put ten years into working in hospitals and clinics in Cuba, Haiti after their earthquake, Liberia during ebola, and several rural NM communities. This could be done for and with every medical school student in the US as we have far more resources per capita than Cuba. Cuba uses their medical education for diplomacy like we use our power, money and military. Education is the best investment, least expensive with the most ROI.
This is what I mean! Congratulations to her. . Your daughter is practicing medicine as it was intended. We notice that in Cuba they had over 90% of their population including children as young as 2 vaccinated against Covid 19 very quickly with what I understand was an effective vaccine. However, prior to getting to med school one has to get a basic education here. I know that tuition is free in Panama and Argentina too, which is where one might go for undergraduate education prior to medical school in Cuba. In Germany my daughter could also apply to med or dental school right out of high school. They would be free, but it is highly competitive to get into. She would also have to do a year of college preparatory school in Germany to learn how to study in the program and pass the tests in the medical field. She is going to university in Germany since she speaks the language. She will be taking the C1 language tests in December and January. Argentina and Panama make more sense for most people here to attend and even Spain which is not so expensive, because Spanish tends to be the language that is offered in most schools here. My daughter has also studied Spanish and Chinese. The Spanish is going to be better developed when her class goes on a service trip to Costa Rica at the end of the year, where they will be staying with host families and doing conservation work. They are raising money for part of the costs now. I have read that African students are going to study in China because they are offered full scholarships. When they look at the USA and see the cost and no scholarship they are not able to come here even though most would prefer it. That is part of China's diplomacy. Germany offers free tuition too. The architect that won the Pritzker prize in architecture this year, Diébédo Francis Kéré, is from Burkina Faso. He went to school in Germany and has his architecture firm there. He is now an African-German architect. His buildings use the materials in the environment where he is designing. He says that people should look at climate change, diminishing resources and population growth and consider that. Of course he considers beauty as well.
Now he lives in Germany. They have gained this wonderful architect by offering him a free education. In turn, he offers them a vision and possible solutions for future problems.
Joanna,
Hopefully, the United States is not in a position where the only way to get votes is to purchase them through goodies handed out at the expense of others.
Which, is what student loan forgiveness is. Now, hold on, before you guys get too angry at me, in many cases I am in full support. A lot of those loans were handed out by sharks ripping off people trying to make the best of a tough life.
For example, at Union College, an expensive private college that is mostly white, many students attended on loans even though they had wealthy parents. The loans were used by their parents for their busineses (low interest loans right?).
However, covering the cost of those loans has to come out of someone's pocket, never mind that Ronald Reagan got us all thinking that printing money is free and nobody ever has to pay up.
That is wrong.
So, I personally hope that we can hold our Democracy without handing out money at the polling stations. I really do.
Isn’t there an application process? I do not believe that all will be eligible for the benefit. Nonetheless there are always those on any returns who take advantage. That should not stop us from helping those truly in need.
When we applied and were granted loans in the 1960s, college, even with student residents, was so so inexpensive and the loan money often paid for non educational perks. Often the loan was a grant. Even better. But “those were the days, my friend, we thought they’d never end.” Not that we want to repeat those years. Not at all. But corporations have too much power and they are running our economy and economic inequality.
Yes. When I was in college in the 60s and 70s, I could "pay as I went" with small loans and working two part time jobs, so I graduated from both undergraduate and graduate school with no debt. This was largely possible because public universities were subsidized since it was considered an asset to the country if people got an education. That's no longer the case, and no longer possible so that if there was no help for those who can't afford college, then there would only be rich kids going to college. Burdening college graduates with unbelievable debt hurts us all. It's time we reconsidered using the capitalist strategy for absolutely everything since this only benefits a small portion of the population.
Same here. Small loans all repaid and federal grants and scholarships. Graduate school was $22 a credit hour and the loan interest rate was 3% fixed. Edited: (my point being, the system was a lot more fair in the 60's and 70's especially for low income kids. I could not afford college today even while working.)
I actually took out small personal loans from the student services center short term loan program, and paid it back over the term. I believe there was almost no interest on these loans.
Free public education as Thomas Jefferson envisioned is much lower cost than this loan stuff.
I, too, worked part-time (two jobs). I also enjoyed the benefit of the GI Bill. Ended up in night school as I opted to start a career in the private business sector. No debt. That took a bit longer, but it was a success.
Student loans have become preditory. Colleges now want to be profitable institutions. It is as though what was "up" now is "down"; and, vice versa. The concepts about what was ethically moral went out the window long ago.
Brilliant post. Thank you.
You are correct. I saw a bumper sticker yesterday - "I'll believe corporations are people when Texas executes one." Someone inside me I see a connection with these huge profts being gathered at a time when sharing a partion would be so good for both the country and real people - not that I ever equated oil/gas corporation with "real" people. But even grocery store chains are playing that Greed Game. I say give the students a break. God knows they need one.
Ahh yes, corporations...They.., are deemed a citizen.., no? Somehow that needs to be erased! Enough of this governance by reprobates ($$$$.$$). After all, "they" are so fat, as keepers of the kitchen where bowls of gruel are handed out to the eager hands of the sloggers who have no voice. We individuals have been saddled by a holocaust of a different making. "They" are so pleased to hobble the real issues, like Womens Rights(!!!) with the ever-distracting, religion-driven word 'abortion'. Or, and this may sound trite, but virtually no mention (by them) of "gasoline" prices (lowered), and ZERO concern for the truckers who are being whacked by the price of diesel. A factor that Democrats or our simple-minded news medics seem unconcerned with. Like, when.., is the last time you heard "diesel" mentioned? The "truckers" of this nation VOTE, in addition to listening to talk-radio mile after mile. Those folks are absorbed by Faux news and "They" love it too.
Interesting, “holocaust of a different making.” As a trucker light, Only 2000000 miles driven, home 2 days per month, 20 hour workdays, paychecks absorbed by every state of the union at so-called safety and regulation check stations, treated as a criminal by local law enforcement agencies, hounded at night for my 4 hours sleep by desperate women, many college students by day, my relief was to listen to talk radio. Corporate America bringing you Rush Limburger in stereo throughout the day. Listening to Rush and dodging the road rage what could possibly be wrong? A free corporate shower every 2-4 days. I managed to get the groceries there on time. The money that I salvaged went straight to 3 of my children’s university costs, as did my schoolteacher wife’s entire salary. Just the all American over achievers grab it and growl sort of family. Were it not for Limberger’s wisdom we would never have known how hard the Democrats used us. I was so glad when the last child matriculated.WHEW! Thinking now about those days I begin to see the wisdom of a public education through an undergraduate degree. Somehow, despite their dad being an absentee father, they worked, we helped, we won. Still need a public education. Let me tell you jealous bastards one more time. Public education = 16 years. Ignorance is not bliss. We are nearly “pickled” by undereducation. If we can afford smart bombs then we can damn sure afford smart children!
You might find this piece interesting re corporate ‘personhood’ & how it came to be (farther back than I realized!) & how our founders opposed the idea: https://hartmannreport.com/p/could-todays-crises-help-america-e71?utm_source=substack&utm_medium=email
Thank you, Barbara, for the link. That is a very interesting background piece on how we got to where we are with the notion of 'corporate personhood'
Right, Irenie. I borrowed $6000 to get my MSW. It took only three years to pay it off, primarily because I got a good paying job right after graduation. That's the way it was supposed to work.
Love how the opponents of loan forgiveness depict it as an expense for taxpayers rather than reduced profits for lending institutions.
And we won't be holding our breath for those grifters to return that money, will we? Sure hope we've learned THAT lesson. While I understand the urgency of getting that federal money out to states and cities to keep their essential employees paid and on the job back during the pandemic, the same error was made that happened back in 2008-09 during that recession. The federal government rushed to bail out banks (too big to fail) and the auto industry. The rush jumped right over the steps of tracking the money to be sure it went to those who really qualified (not people like Jared Kushner and Trump businesses - who got in line ASAP and got money) and to ensure state and local government levels had systems in place to catch money before it was hacked off by scams (which happened). Perhaps we can share some of the blame with Trump who cancelled out a lot of programs that were in place to protect and prevent such scams - scams being his most successful business ventures.
Yes, Georgia Girl, there is an application process and I agree that we should not stop helping those truly in need.
You mean people cheat?? I was always in favor of spending money to nail the cheats, be they tax cheats, Medicare or whatever. Lordy, we could wipe out our national debt in no time. We are a nation of legal cheats…how dare we tighten the screws, how dare we not.
I know personally some very rich men. They have worked very hard to get to where they are financially. Yet it is so hypocritical when the constantly voice utter exasperation at all the "poor, lazy people"who cheat on their welfare type assistance and yet they literally pay more to hide/shelter/ finagle their income...and tax liability to avoid paying it to the state or federal tax boards than their actual tax liability...how do I know this...they brag about it...
With every social program there will be people who take advantage. It's human nature. That's not a good enough reason to not have the program. If we expect that a small number of people will stop trying to scam the system then we are mistaken. It's a price that has to be paid if we are to level the playing field for the larger majority of people who need it. We may need to improve how the programs are administered, but that's also a work in progress.
A fine comment J. I came to this conclusion long ago, amidst the cry about give-aways from righties (Ronnie being their big bully pulpit megaphone). A government program that helps the needy is bound to be taken advantage of by greedy persons who see an opportunity. Thankfully (or hopefully) the numbers are small. But Republicans (who say to pull yourself up by your boot straps, yet hiding your boots from you), point to the exceptions and scream about big program inefficiencies and ineffectiveness, and the duplicity of the people the program was meant to help. Or that the program is a de-motivator to help oneself. And, of course, being unwilling to provide the funds to properly administer the program. It is an evil and cynical way to look at society.
It is totally without conscience to view other members of your species with such contempt and of course reveals a lot about those who view people that way and very little about the targets of their contempt. And, they never refer to the give-aways they advocate - welfare for corporations, agribusiness, and the weapons industry.
I, at least, often post about corporate welfare.
Yes, in fact there are people and whole systems who are invested in keeping people poor. But, yes, poverty is a public health crisis.
To apply for student loan forgiveness go to the Department of Education. Click on the Student Loan tab. The whole process takes 5 minutes. Good Luck!
Also
Here is the link for information on public service student loan forgiveness. Deadline is October 31.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/careersandeducation/student-loan-forgiveness-pslf-deadline-is-october-31/ar-AA13qSEd#:~:text=Student%20loan%20forgiveness%3A%20PSLF%20deadline%20is%20October%2031
And
https://studentaid.gov/articles/student-loan-forgiveness/#:~:text=SHARE-,Student%20Loan%20Forgiveness%20(and%20Other%20Ways%20the%20Government%20Can%20Help%20You%20Repay%20Your%20Loans),-LOAN%20REPAYMENT2.5
I support student loan forgiveness.
Good to see you back Barbara.
I support free public education.
I support free education for the historically disadvantaged.
I don’t support tying any of that to the political process of getting votes.
As I pointed in a specific example.
Thank You Mike. It's nice to see you are still in good form in the comments section. : )
Dr. Richardson provides us fertile ground for discussion does she not? 😊
The billions in corporate entitlements and billions lost in taxes sheltered by the ultra wealthy every year, the lack of any real attempt to investigate and recover some of the PPP loans fraudulently received and the billions scammed from medicare by the privatization scam of medicare+ are not a concern. The deficit has DECREASED by nearly 1.5 trillion under Biden despite his desire to keep his campaign promises and help millions of Americans struggling to live the American dream.
Completely agree.
The problem Mike is that Republicans have abandoned all forms of public investment. They have stopped investing in public education and colleges after setting up land grant colleges in each state. Two of my daughters graduated from Cornell, originally established as a land grant agricultural college. The AG school still has instate tuition at half of the now private Cornell University. It helps, but all other fees, room & board, with amenities like food courts and gyms with climbing walls are too expensive for most students. Hence extremely huge loans. My father graduated from Cornell in engineering thanks to the GI Bill. He was the first on both sides of our family to attend college.
The loan forgiveness is a back end solution. Not the best solution. We should invest in free or extremely affordable public higher education as an option to expensive private education.
Republicans supported rural healthcare after WWII with establishing "critical access" hospitals. Maine has about 29 hospitals. About half were critical access fully supported by the Federal government. They had less than 25 beds, surgery, emergency and provided critical healthcare for most of the local population. Now many of these hospitals are closing or have such reduced services that most patients much travel hours for services they once got in their community.
Republicans once supported the cleaning up and protection of the environment. Nixon's administration created the EPA, which helped clean up the Hudson River returning from a nearly dead and poisonous river to a relatively clean and safe river for recreational and domestic water use.
Most of our attempts to save or get back to these values are back end bandaid that will never be as good as dead on pragmatic solutions.
We must overcome the current Republican obstruction and destruction. And promote people who think and do as Lincoln did.
Great post and I agree wit all you have said.
I exist because of essentially free college tuition at A&M
Your argument makes no sense. You say a small amount of students at a private college with wealthy parents took out loans to pay for school and instead let mommy and daddy use the loan money for business. Then, those students of wealthy parents did not pay back their loans because they did not care about their credit rating or need for transportation and housing, and are now going to get some benefit from loan forgiveness.
GMH.
I am saying the parents are paying the loans after having misappropriated the money and, further, some of the loan. amount can be forgiven.
Mike, it is my understanding that the student loan forgiveness program is designed for those making under $75000 per year. It would seem unlikely that the graduates from wealthy families that you describe would be in that category.
I believe you are right. However, I do not know if the family income plays a part. It might.
It refers to the borrower’s income, not their family’s (ie; parents), if that’s what you meant. There is a post here, up or down thread, with a link to the .gov site that explains the whole thing & application as well. Having worked in college student financial aid for 40+ years, with a lot of experience in loan counseling for students/parents, this forgiveness is a start in a process, loans and other aid, that needs to be revamped for current and future student needing financial assistance to attend college. Here in CA I watched as a state that once had an envied CC/CSU/UC system eroded by changes in state support. We need to invest in education from pre-K through college IMHO.
I believe it’s household income that is considered. College graduates from wealthy families are unlikely to be living with their parents.
Of course, I could be wrong.
And. Of course. I fully support free public education.
What I don’t support is tying any of those societal building activity to political party votes.
Student loan forgiveness must be the opening salvo in change that MUST come regarding the “business” of higher education.
Public education being regarded as K-12 is incorrect. It is entirely possible to create a degree program synonymous with the completion of a student’s journey through free and public education. To subject any capable student to a molehill or mountain of debt is a form of economic enslavement.
And the current Republican agenda of indoctrination of our students is not the answer in a Democratic nation. The answer is the complete and utter transformation of the architecture of public education. To me, that became sorely obvious during the pandemic.
I can go on and on…….hopefully conversation will evolve regarding this topic. It has seriously started in some circles.
Salud, Mike!
Unita 🗽
I completely agree Christine.
There are rotten apples in every barrel. While understanding your point of view, having just calculated what a no vacation, no paid sick leave, and no affordable medical insurance, $15 an hour job brings in, I want those who had the courage to borrow for education and then were charged higher rates by lenders, to have their loans forgiven, even if some of those who receive forgiveness unfairly also do.
I prefer free public education.
Less cost overhead and more egalitarian.
The loan process is rife with crooks.
1) The loans forgiveness in question applies to federally funded loans, such as Pell grants to low income people. The maximum forgiveness is $20,000 for Pell borrowers, $10,000 for others. People who owe less than that, having paid off some of their debt already, get only their balance forgiven. People who owe more than the forgiveness amount must continue to make payments starting in January. (Payments were not required during the pandemic.)
2) I know people who have heard that all student loans will be forgiven. Not true. Borrowers who made over $125K as shown on their tax returns for 2020 or 2021 are not eligible for any loan forgiveness. Nor loans from private lenders.
3) I am much more critical of the abuses of Paycheck Protection Plan loans, a much bigger expense to taxpayers than student loans. Other countries administered their similar pandemic programs with far less fraud. A reason we did so poorly has to do with our aging computer systems not allowing agencies to rapidly share information already collected.
4) In the good old days students could work their way through school and graduate on schedule. Today’s cost of education is way up, but the federal minimum hourly wage, $7.25, has not changed since 2009.
PPP was, indeed, a giant mistake and riddled with fraud.
Mike S, 'Twould seem handing out money at the polling stations is a more effective way to get it into the hands of relatively ordinary Americans than handing out the billions in dark money to the politicians...
I hope that this loan forgiveness doesnt get used like the PPL loans - where far too many individuals & businesses took advantage of them. As someone else here mentioned - lack of tracking appears to be something our government has issues with. But as a grandmother to a child that had a Pell Grant & several scholarships with a single mom who took out a loan for the remainder - yeah, I really would like to see this program be successful - in other words - help the people who NEED the help. What a novel experience that would be.
You have an excellent point, Mike. I don't begrudge student loan forgiveness. My husband and I were able to pay for our three daughters' college and post-college educations so they would not be burdened for years by student debt. However, many who owe tens of thousands of dollars cannot get ahead in life. If you have $100,000 in student loans, you work most of your life to pay off those debts and with the impact of Covid the past few years, many people cannot even find jobs or their work has been scaled back. Forget about the possibility of buying a home. Many people who paid for college resent this, but I do not. Many minorities are unable build family wealth and get ahead in life. All the money we shell out as taxpayers, be it to student debt forgiveness or to support the war in Ukraine, has to come from somewhere. I support both efforts.
The USA is in an awful position in that it charges so much for college. That has happened because people have to pay for it themselves. Ronald Reagan is the one who came up with this genius plan. Think of all of the diseases that might have already been cured if we had free college education and everyone could go who wanted to. Now the price is just prohibitive. Here is a not exhaustive list of countries where one pays little or no tuition to go to university. https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/countries-with-free-college Some of the ones with nominal tuition really have nominal tuition. Not just for their citizens, but for others. These people then graduate and contribute to their economies. So, they can attract the best and the brightest from around the world. They can attract students for areas where they have a shortage. We can attract the wealthiest. The amount of debt that some people are in after college is so much that they will never get out of it. They cannot file bankruptcy either. It is also meaning that parents have to work for a super long time to send their children to college. It is lowering the standard of living for both parents and children. I have a single mother friend who has to stay in a job where she is poorly treated because she cannot afford to work in a better environment and send her daughter to college. The amount that she is expected to pay is a lot also. It makes no sense. Too bad Americans are not used to thinking of going abroad. My daughter and one classmate are the only ones in their grade applying in another country. The previous year two students went abroad but to American schools where they did not need to learn the language. Again, we are not really preparing our students to deal with the world on the level that other countries are.
My daughter got her tuition free medical degree in Cuba about seven years ago. Cuba is about the size of Tennessee and trained about half as many first degree doctors as the US. About half or more of those came from other Latin American countries and Affrica. All were taught in Spanish. So now my daughter is bilingual. Cuba is a low cost economy relative to ours. Housing was free for first year in a dormitory transformed from military housing. Rooms in private homes or modest apartments could then be rented at small monthly fees at a fraction of US student housing. All food was self prepared. Our daughter graduated with a dozen other low income Americans for which Cuba's international medical school was intended for. American students were selected for their grit for living without affluent comfort and desire to work in underserved areas. NM recruited our daughter for residency in their rural health and clinic services with a high number of Hispanics. They gave her a fellowship in rural emergency medicine. Between Cuba's six year program, four years of US residency and fellowship, she put ten years into working in hospitals and clinics in Cuba, Haiti after their earthquake, Liberia during ebola, and several rural NM communities. This could be done for and with every medical school student in the US as we have far more resources per capita than Cuba. Cuba uses their medical education for diplomacy like we use our power, money and military. Education is the best investment, least expensive with the most ROI.
This is what I mean! Congratulations to her. . Your daughter is practicing medicine as it was intended. We notice that in Cuba they had over 90% of their population including children as young as 2 vaccinated against Covid 19 very quickly with what I understand was an effective vaccine. However, prior to getting to med school one has to get a basic education here. I know that tuition is free in Panama and Argentina too, which is where one might go for undergraduate education prior to medical school in Cuba. In Germany my daughter could also apply to med or dental school right out of high school. They would be free, but it is highly competitive to get into. She would also have to do a year of college preparatory school in Germany to learn how to study in the program and pass the tests in the medical field. She is going to university in Germany since she speaks the language. She will be taking the C1 language tests in December and January. Argentina and Panama make more sense for most people here to attend and even Spain which is not so expensive, because Spanish tends to be the language that is offered in most schools here. My daughter has also studied Spanish and Chinese. The Spanish is going to be better developed when her class goes on a service trip to Costa Rica at the end of the year, where they will be staying with host families and doing conservation work. They are raising money for part of the costs now. I have read that African students are going to study in China because they are offered full scholarships. When they look at the USA and see the cost and no scholarship they are not able to come here even though most would prefer it. That is part of China's diplomacy. Germany offers free tuition too. The architect that won the Pritzker prize in architecture this year, Diébédo Francis Kéré, is from Burkina Faso. He went to school in Germany and has his architecture firm there. He is now an African-German architect. His buildings use the materials in the environment where he is designing. He says that people should look at climate change, diminishing resources and population growth and consider that. Of course he considers beauty as well.
https://www.pritzkerprize.com/laureates/diebedo-francis-kere
Now he lives in Germany. They have gained this wonderful architect by offering him a free education. In turn, he offers them a vision and possible solutions for future problems.
Here is another link to the Department of Education for student loan forgiveness
https://studentaid.gov/debt-relief-announcement?utm_content=&utm_medium=email&utm_name=&utm_source=govdelivery&utm_term=#:~:text=The%20Biden%2DHarris%20Administration%E2%80%99s%20Student%20Debt%20Relief%20Plan%20Explained
Well. At least I brought every one out for a discussion.