President Joe Biden spoke today in Tel Aviv, Israel, reiterating support for the Israelis but also hammering on the need to address the humanitarian crisis in Gaza.
Agreed Herb,,,I didn't see or hear a feeble old man, stumbling, bumbling and confused. I saw, and heard an elder statesman with years of experience, pain and wisdom LEADING the way to humanitarian assistance and staunch warnings to all that this was not going to be a time to destroy innocent lives or inflict pain for revenge, or out of anger. He did well. Hard to imagine someone else doing as well.
Even without the latest Hamas upsurge. So here we remain with a barricaded, impoverished Gaza operated by a Hamas which on one front preaches a One Palestine non-Jewish state across the territories between and including Gaza and West Bank - on the other operates what we could call general civil authorities and administration.
And compare with the gop presidential candidates. 🤡💩 and the gop public servants. And the gop Supreme Court. Grifters. Liars. Haters. So many criminals. 😱🤬
Don't forget that the media shows every skewed poll they can trying to show false equivalence for ad clicks. Choose to look at the factual side of actual data that shows Biden just raised $71m in the last quarter alone vs Trump's $45m.
It's hard to ignore this says TFG's "investors" have decided with so many criminal trials and visible cognitive decline he's not worth putting money into. That says way more than one segment of a poll. No question we have work to do for 2024 but, the GOP already sees TFG is an anchor. (see below)
From Simon Rosenberg, Dem strategist who accurately predicted the faux red wave in ‘22.⬇️
“Encouraging Biden and Ohio Polls - A new large sample, high quality NPR/NewsHour/Marist poll has Biden up over Trump 49-47 (+2), and Biden leading Trump in a three way ballot with RFK 44-37-16 (+7).”
Yes, and some of this is due to RFK pulling twice as many independents (who apparently prefer getting Covid than a vaccination) from TFG than from POTUS.
The preference for GOP/Trump on the economy has been a long standing as far as I'm concerned false perception of the two parties actual performance. GOP long-term drumbeat may have a lot to do with that, plus an archaic popular view that the Dems' pursuit of social infrastructure has been seen as "socialism" a dirty word across the US, linked to "godless Communism" and likely loaded with a racist bias. My guess. Clinton's failed effort at implementing a healthcare program, then Obama's partial success, likely stimulated outsized efforts by the GOP on that drumbeat. lol I have mistyped "dumb.." twice now.
They never mention that Trump’s “ imaginary “ great economy was the result of Obama. Trump is incompetent to get anything done and the administration pandered to the wealthy. He just rode on Obama’s shirt tails.
And the next president will ride on the Biden Administration's successful financial handling of the pandemic hand-off ails, inflation taming monetary policy, etc., etc. Inflation policy is painful, ie., the necessity of high interest rates to curb folks and business's living on borrowed - nearly free money (1 percent interest). The nation's people and business's were living like drunk sailors on shore leave for far too long; the eventual end result it to divide the total nation value of the money supply making all dollars worth less. Folks in general have a very hard time getting their minds around economics. I'm fearful that Biden, without a massive effort to educate the public will pay a dear price come 2024 election time. In fact, I'm browsing a poll soon that may confirm that; I'll post a link if I think it holds any water. * As I think about it, that will mark twice in my lifetime that I experienced a democrat president being 'handed the bag' of past monetary mismanagement; the first I recall was Carter being handed the necessity to tame inflation with high interest rates. * Also the 2nd oil crisis via OPEC. That was an awful time for average Americans; borrowing was extremely painful. Of course the gop beat him up for it, and then the failed (military and cyclonic sandstorm) hostage rescue in Iran. Reagan gop machine made mincemeat of likely the most honorable, and brilliant (near mensa I.Q.) president in my lifetime as a voter.
Neither do I. They are no more than another 'statistic' - eg., "Lies, damned lies, and statistics". A 'Murphy's Law' corollary needs added to that saw regarding 'polls.' However, they do influence a segment of the general public and broadcast frenzy that feel a need to 'jump on some rolling bandwagon.' There are fallacies of faulty logic applicable there that's been widely exploited before - including the election / even the electability of TFG. If you'll recall it was widely exploited by the gop, our adversary countries, and gop ally's broadly on social media. TFG winning was turned into a 'virtual' sure thing, along with the vilification of Clinton.
Years ago when the Maddow blog was still available, we had a person who had worked in polling for years....Carolina Lady with Fan. She explained how polling works and after that I take most polls with a grain of salt.
Bronwyn, Drill down to the original poll. They say "Americans" but the sampling is 1137 people, often online. In the last presidential election, Biden had over 81 million votes. His tfg opponent had over 74 million. 1137 is a tiny drop in the bucket and statistically inaccurate when you think of all the online cheating his cult and the Russians have done to help elect a compulsive liar manchild. These breathless polls are just clickbait for lazy media. Try to avoid them
Skipping any other issues, turns out a properly (random) chosen small sample will generate a plus/minus 5% accurate result, meaning 19 times out of 20. Larger sample sizes dont provide a comparable gain in accuracy. That amazed me when i took a business stats course abt 45 years ago, but the math was reasonably easy to follow. On the other hand we've had historically huge mis-calls.
Frank, maybe 45 years ago statistics were more straightforward. When Tulsi Gabbard ran for president in 2020, she told people how to sign up for polls. We know that Russians had thousands of Facebook accounts in the 2016 election pretending to be Americans. If the media would put the sampling number in the headline or first paragraph instead of saying what “Americans”believe, it would certainly lower my blood pressure!
Exactly right Gigi. I spoke to that above ↓↑, or wherever it landed (lol). Now I've got to read back to find the Bronwyn post to see if he's talking about the poll I'm reading; from your comments, I'm thinking it is, inasmuch as you mention the small, and 'online' sampling. Brava ~
They’re not thinking. Trump would kill US all. Time to educate that food and water are necessities for human life. Gasoline and gold are not. Eggs come from well-fed (grains) chickens (I used to give them watermelon and cantaloupe rinds in summer). I met a package of asparagus last week that said “made in the grocery store.” First time I knew how deceptive the food guys are.
D4N: Why is it funny? Too many Americans are too far removed from farms and farming to understand the dangers of climate change. Food is NOT made in the grocery store nor grown there. False advertising is no longer a joke, if ever it was.
Rolyac, for all those who claim that Biden is "too old," "senile," or as Scott Pelley described him, "tired," they need to have watched his bravery, resolve, and statesmanship during the current crisis in the Middle East. Even Netanyahu, who is certainly not aligned with Biden's political brand, was eager to be hosting him - perhaps because "Sleepy Joe" is more popular with the Israelis than Bibi is.
If this man is "tired," he has earned the right to be. People half his age would have fallen apart at this point, and if anyone I know tells me that he's unfit, I will remove them from my contacts list, right after smacking them down.
Consider smacking down Pelley. For quite some time now, I've been turning the tables around on some of these broadcasters, but as tastefully as I can manage. I don't always get wins, but it seems I did get a few. Most recently, I got on Scripps broadcasting for how they were narrative 'spinning' regarding the autoworker's striking, a topic I have in depth knowledge about. Their tenor has changed a bit.
Good for you, D4N. We should all stand up to these self-appointed "experts." It's clear that the motivation is little more than stirring up controversy. The best that they appear to be interested in is both-sides "reporting."
I'd be interested to see how long it would take for Scott Pelley or any of the other MSM who are so eager to comment negatively on Biden to keep his schedule. We won't even discuss how he'd negotiate the current poisonous right-wing crap that is constant background noise, trying to upend anything positive to keep our fragile democracy together.
I can’t even imagine the ignorant word salad that would come out of Trumps mouth right now. I’ll never forget the deer in the headlights look on George W’s face when he was told about 911 while he was reading stories to kids. He went on vaca shortly after that. Biden is doing a stellar job.
“Israel has to build a wall around itself to keep out the people it forced into refugee camps at its formal founding in 1948, but that is O.K. Incessant violence against the Palestinian population: This is O.K., too—part of the story, as they say. For the sake of its security it must bomb the airports in neighboring countries, as it did this week in Syria and Lebanon. But Israel is Israel, Israel is a great post–World War II success, a monument to human decency and the rule of law, and Israel must be.
And amid this cacophony, all this grating noise, a vast, rueful silence. Among the Western democracies’ countless unsayables, the greatest of these is that the state of Israel, founded on injustice 75 years ago, is a failed experiment. Instead of jubilee celebrations, it is ethnic-cleansing a helpless population—a monstrous memorial to the six million whose names it was intended to honor. In the same way, no one in Washington or among the European vassals can say what needs to be said about the long record of America’s “unconditional support” for Israel: It is the gravest foreign policy failure—among many, of course—in the postwar period.”
Yes-- Biden left all that for another time maybe. That's another strength of his visit. I read that in 6 days, Israel used more bombs on Gaza than we used in 4 years in oh, you know that country we withdrew from a while ago. It was way too many! I'm pretty sure Biden must loathe Netanyahu-- remember how he came over to visit Trump while Barack was president? To show that any treaty we signed could be thrown away the following week? I think that's how it was.
I also heard on the CBC‘s “as it happens“ that the number of bombs that have fallen on Gaza so far exceed the number that fell in Afghanistan in over a year. What struck me was that Gaza is the size of Hoboken New Jersey and Afghanistan is the size of Texas. We are talking true urban warfare here -in very close quarters.
Just finished said article. Cogent and timely. We have propped up Israel for far too long. They served their purpose as allies with the intelligence they were well positioned to obtain in a region that started going south on us when the oil rich Arab world began throwing its weight around, highjacking airplanes and finding other ways to tell us to butt out of their business. Cooler heads had better start prevailing in this hotbed of revenge and spite. The eye for an eye thing doesn’t work for an atomic world. It’s completely inimical to life as we need it to be.
Thanks you very much for this Patrick Lawrence article. A great voice, a refreshing take on this tangled knot.
However, I must say, the idea of Palestinians sharing a legislature with Israelis makes our current chaos in the House of Representatives seem like a Latin club at Oxford.
Why not? Both are Semitic and intelligent. Religion is the center of this quarrel, as it has been for how many thousands of years. My god is better than your god. This time the Israelis won on that score. My hope is that the US Catholic bishops will not go after Biden on this one which would denigrate them to the level of jihad. Here we are fighting the crusades (our fault) all over again. As a group, why can’t humans grow up to be nice? My theory: parental beatings and hatred passed from generation to generation. Has everyone noticed Biden’s loving family or are Hunter’s problems all they see? Our president has risen above multiple tragedies to serve with human distinction and grace that should be an example to US all.
Somehow they need to see their common humanity. There was a story years ago about a camp, in the US, that brought together Arab and Israeli teens in the hope they would learn from each other and return home wiser and more tolerant. I wonder what became of that.
You may be referring to an initiative by President Carter. He spent an awful lot of time and capital suing for peace, and in particular between Egypt, Palestinians (Arafat), and Israel; As I recall the Camp David accords were one result.
It's way to too late for any kind of peace or understanding or safety for Israel and certainly not for the Palestinians. 100 million in additional aid to Gaza, where the population (50% are children/Hamas supporters) is losing everything: living in rubble, no water, no medical aid, nothing, to be shared with the West Bank: what a joke.
I agree. He didn't falter at all; as well, he didn't mince words with wanna' be dictator Bibi, privately and publicly. Uncomfortable diplomacy at it's best by a master of the craft. He also publicly expressed his / our sympathy for the innocent victims in Gaza and Israel. Paraphrasing in his public address, "The majority of Palestinians suffering are 'not' hamas."
Sadly, the rejection and wars by the Arabs against the new state, whatever you want to think of that, did more to create the Palestinian disaster. A very different history might taken place with another response. Every war, mind you, that the Arab states LOST.
So, it’s all about winning and losing? Not about right and wrong? Just what ‘another response’ are you referencing here?
From my limited reading/investigation so far, Israel’s decision to pursue hardline Zionism over democracy has done more to ‘create the Palestinian disaster’. But then, I tend to take the side of oppressed over oppressor, so maybe that’s my own bias talking.
I do agree this was a massive Jewish intrusion into Palestine over several generations, and it didn't take long for a Palestinian resistance, even if at the front end Palestinians were selling Jewish immigrants then very low-value land. Anti-semitism in Europe was really the propellant for further immigration esp after the Nazi takeover, and Jews sought futilely to emigrate to eg England, USA, Canada etc, who consistently turned them away. So help yourself to pointing the blame finger. And remember the British aided and abetted the Jewish immigration into Palestine, trying to keep down the un-ending jewish movements, well the movie gives you some idea how that worked out. Ultimately a small majority in the UN supported the creation of both Jewish and Palestinian states. Then all hell broke loose. That, and 2 more brief wars launched by Arabs, all failures. Without the wars the mass removals and flight of Palestinians to Arab countries wouldn't have happened. The alternative would have been a negotiated co-operation. So we've got to a point that a terrorist organization which won power in Gaza by both the ballet box and bullet, gunning down their fellow Gazans, maintains a terrorist campaign on the grounds that Israel has no right to exist. So kudos to your sympathies to Gazans but what kind of outcome do did Hamas' military and terror campaigns have for Gaza? We have a pretty good idea on that right? And in the end, likely 10 to 100 to one kill ratio for their efforts not to mention enormous property and infrastructure damage in Gaza. I do agree, this have been an ongoing tragedy in multiple parts.
Hamas won power because Israel and the U.S. wanted it; a wedge driven to neutralize the PLO. Blowback much? Your kill ratio is, to put it gently, flawed.
Feel free to provide real information on the "wedge" thesis, and i just provided a rough idea of outsized casualty ratios, my only point being Palestinian casualties have always been far larger than Israeli.
I agree but to point out this happening at this moment BECAUSE Hamas started this, as the article pointed out. And Lindsay Graham is just a plain Nutbag in my book. Not to be taken seriously by any measure. I agree that Israel needs to take responsibility for their share of essentially imprisoning Palestinians but Hamas also reigns terror on its own people. How do root out Hamas without effecting Palestinians?
I get it Tom; hence I have to regard one conflict at a time there. The current conflict was initiated by the defacto rulers of the Palestinians from territory of the Gaza Strip that was ceded to Palestinians by Israel. This time, "they" - the Palestinians sucker punched Israel; they have the right and responsibility to respond.
You want to re-write history on that blood-soaked piece of earth. Am sure The Christian Crusaders as well as the Muslim Infidels believed each were “right” too. In 2005, there was a fight in The Church of the Holy Sepulcher between Greek Orthodox and Roman Catholics—am sure each thought they were “right” also.
The winner of the war—and there have been so many wars on that piece of earth!—gets management/ownership of the land. Israel won all the wars. Right or not, it’s the way of what we now call The Middle East, and around the world.
Like too many, the focus appears to be on the symptoms and not the cause. I agree with Tom High and thank him for the link to the article. I am so pleased that people in this forum are not afraid to address the gorilla in the room.
The whole situation is part of the long standing quagmire in the Middle East, much of the blame for which falls to the Brits in their handling of the Palestinian Mandate after WWI where they treated both groups horribly. I recommend Legacy of Violence about the British Empire in various places and Lawrence in Arabia for insight into the players in the area around WWI. Also Arab countries have refused to take Palestinian refugees after the creation of Israel and still don't want them. Both the Israelis and groups like Hamas bear the blame for their treatment of ordinary Palestinians. We also have Jerusalem, sacred place for three religions who have much in common. There are no easy solutions. The one good thing that may come of this is the rejection in the end of the corrupt Bibi.
Good. I thought Lawrence in Arabia was one of the best histories I had read in a long time. The one on the British Empire showed me how so many current situations go back to their empire. at least in part.
I completely disagree. I have studied the history which is, of course, complicated but from its inception after WWI, when Great Britain won the war and mapped out a place to be shared by Jews and Muslims it was the Muslims who refused to accept the Jewish people. Great Britain tried to moderate but failed and turned the problem over to the UN which, like Britain came up with a two state solution which the Palestinians rejected. After Israel declared itself a state, it was attacked on all sides by Arabs and won the war. Instead of accepting it lost the war the Palestinians began its unending grievance campaign of rage and terror attacks. The Arab nations not only expelled all their Jewish population, it also refused to allow the Palestinians to gain citizenship, the ability to work and any rights. Did the Palestinians blame their inhospitable neighbors? No. They blamed the Jews. Israel is itself a nation largely populated by Holocaust refugees and refugees of Russian pograms. After additional attacks in the 1960s by Arab countries, Israel again won and obtained even more land. Israel gave most of the land back which it didn’t have to do in exchange for peace. Instead it became the victim of countless terror attacks carried out by the PLO including the kidnapping and murder of Israels athletes at the Olympics in 1972, bombed busses, suicide bombers, additional kidnappings and more. So even though Palestinians lost the war in 1947-48 it is still contesting the results. The walls around Israel didn’t go up right away but only after repeated attempts to live without a wall resulted in escalating terror attacks against Israeli civilians.
The population is largely radicalized around the mission of elimination of the State of Israel and all Jews. And that was over 50 years ago before Hamas existed and became more extreme. They not only torture, butcher, kill and kidnap innocent children, babies, men and women, they videotape themselves committing these atrocities and not only brag about it - they rejoice publicly about it. They post pictures of themselves on social media attacking Israel and are hailed in Iran and other countries as great victors!
After all that did Israel declare a day of rage, burn Palestinian flags, surround embassies? No. They mourned and set about trying to save the hundreds of hostages taken. Of course they bombed Gaza. There are still missiles being fired upon Israel from Gaza. As Hamas demands an end to Israel’s bombing it is actively bombing Israel and holding on to hundreds of hostages. They like hostages- the ultimate weapon of terror.
So I respectfully disagree with your assessment of the situation. Every attempt to mediate a two state solution has been derailed by terror attacks. I don’t think much of the current prime minister of Israel- his hard right and unlawful actions have done much to discredit the Israeli government. He is a wanna-be autocrat. But past prime ministers have done much work towards peace. And Israelis do not celebrate the murder of civilians or threaten endless rage campaigns.
I’ve studied history as well. It’s interesting how your studies seem to indicate a preference to always come down on the Israeli side of wall, as it were.
It comes down on the Israeli side of wall when facts dictate that it should. In this case, the Arab state would today be thriving on half of Palestine, next to Israel on the other half, if Arabs had said yes. They chose to invade Israel instead to take both halves for an all-Arab State of Palestine, and their loss to Jewish defenders proved disastrous.
Israel gets some blame for some of the things that have happened over the decades. But Israel being built on half of Palestine in 1948 is not one of them. The Jews of Palestine were as entitled as the Arabs of Palestine to a state of their own, and they didn't make the Arabs go to war. That's on Arabs.
Agree completely, 60. Smart Arab leaders would have taken the offer and run in 1948, avoiding the next 75 years of humiliation and blood. They betrayed their own people, and the new crop is even worse.
What are you talking about? That's exactly what should have happened in 1948: half the land to Palestine's Jews, half to Palestine's Arabs. Had the latter said yes, today they'd be partners instead of enemies.
But losing the wars of conquest waged by Palestine's Arabs to steal the half owned by Palestine's Jews--i.e., the legally formed State of Israel--changed the paradigm of nationhood forever, and not in the Arabs' favor.
My understanding is how you describe it. I'd add the number of Jews that were expelled from Arab countries and 'sent' to Israel, along with survivors of the Russian pogroms and Holocaust was close to a million. Palestinians share with Israelis and Jews worldwide the experience of having been rejected and/or tormented by our neighbors.
The right drones on about American exceptionalism! However, the American and British negotiators after World War I and World War II were EXceptionally Bad at creating redrawing national boundaries after each war!
But, of course, the US understands and supports - and partcipates in - genocide. You and I live on land taken from a sophisticated culture by force and by the murder of millions of people.
And what Israel is doing to the Palestinians is a one hundred year process of genocide. Theodor Herzl's plan, formed in 1895, was (and still is) to remove - one way or another - all Palestinians from "our land". What Israel is doing now is attempted genocide. That is not a political statement - it is a monstrous fact.
Roger Waters? Seriously? Major antisemite. Pogroms in Israel, yet again and again and again it’s the Jews fault. Enough of the hating the Jewish People. After millennia of these crap tactics which Do. Not. WORK! Give it a rest.
Major antisemite? Prove it. You do understand thinking that being opposed to Israeli government policy and hating the Jewish people are inextricably connected is absurd, fallacious mental gymnastics? Maybe not.
This excerpt made me wonder if the entire story would be a steaming pile of yak dung. So, to be sure, I hit the link and read every word.
Yep. Steaming pile of yak.
Israel exists as legally and morally as any other nation built on forfeited Ottoman Empire land in the postwar era. Those six nations were Syria, Jordan, Lebanon, Iraq, Israel, and Palestine. The Mandate system, set up by the League of Nations after WWI to distribute Allied-conquered Ottoman land to local populations for states of their own, made the same offer to all six:
"Here's your land, free for the taking. Ready to build and govern your own state?"
The first five people said yes, built their states, and got on with their lives. The last, the Muslim Arabs of Palestine, told Mandate powers to get lost and invaded newborn Israel instead, with the goal of conquering it and merging both halves of geographic Palestine into an all-Arab State of Palestine.
That plan went kablooey when Jews won that War of 1948, thereby capturing some of the land Muslim Arabs could have used to build Palestine if they'd said yes. Remember, Israel haters: Palestine was NOT an "Arab nation" or "Islamic land." It was a province of the Ottoman Empire on which two peoples would eventually have legitimate claims to states via the Mandate system: Arabs AND Jews, not just Arabs.
If Arabs had said "Yes!" instead of "Open fire!, they'd have been living free and prosperous next to Israel for 75 years. Instead, their invasions of Israel in 1967 and 1973, Intifadas that murdered thousands of Jews in the 1980s and 1990s, and the Hamas massacre just two weeks ago, guaranteed their self-inflicted "Nakba" never healed.
Do I want Palestinians to have their own sovereign state? Yes, I do. They deserve a place of their own just as Israelis do. But Israelis aren't stopping them from getting that. They're stopping themselves.
Palis need to get realistic about what that state's size and contours will be, because waging and losing three wars of annihilation against a state that did nothing to you but exist carries strong penalties. You will not get Jerusalem, you will not get the right of return. You will get land and permanent borders and the freedom to run your place as you see fit, provided it doesn't harm your neighbors. So suck it up, take what you can negotiate with sovereign power Israel, build your state, and thrive in peace. Do it NOW, to differentiate yourself from the murdering viper of Hamas.
When peace finally breaks out, you and Israel can join other decent neighbors to fight those real enemies: Hamas, Hezbollah, Taliban, Islamic State, and their paymaster, Iran, the terrorists who want to destroy not just Israel, but all of you, to return the Middle East to Caliphate status with its rejection of modernity and murder of any who dare object.
Don't let what them do to you what they did to Afghans. Partner up and win.
Spot on history lesson Shane. You expended more effort there than I would care to, so kudo's to you friend. For me, I'm done giving this topic and myth believers any more oxygen.
Wait. Back up a moment please. You lost me somewhere between the Mandate system set up by the League of Nations after WWI.
"The Mandate system, set up by the League of Nations after WWI to distribute Allied-conquered Ottoman land to local populations for states of their own, made the same offer to all six:
"Here's your land, free for the taking. Ready to build and govern your own state?"
The first five people said yes, built their states, and got on with their lives. The last, the Muslim Arabs of Palestine, told Mandate powers to get lost and invaded newborn Israel instead, with the goal of conquering it and merging both halves of geographic Palestine into an all-Arab State of Palestine. "
Except you jump almost 30 years and leave out a great deal of extremely pertinent history and what you have written is not quite accurate. In fact it's a lot of bull in which you have revised and reshaped history to fit the Israeli narrative with a stunning absence of context and leaving out some fairly significant facts such as how the British completely sold out the Palestinians with the Balfour Declaration (oh yeah, remember that?) and how in the original mandate contrary to your ridiculous fantasy the Palestinians were promised their own state along with the other five countries but the reason they never got it was not because they turned it down but because the Brits had engaged in a whole of lot of shady dealings behind the scenes, negotiations about who would get Palestine with significant input and lobbying by the Zionists primarily Weizmann, and no input by the Palestinians.
The ultimate decision about division of the land was made was made in the absence of any consultation with the Palestinians whatsoever and land on which the Palestinian people had lived for two millennia was given away by Great Britain under the Balfour Declaration for the purpose of establishing the Jewish state based on the Zionists' assertion for decades that Palestine was the Biblical homeland of the Jews who were entitled to it on that basis. The rights of the indigenous Palestinian population were never acknowledged, a consideration or an issue.
So yes, indeed, they did not take it well when their lands, homes, olive groves and orchards were expropriated and 750,000 Palestinians were forced out of Israel and contrary to the narrative Israel continues to promote, and to which American and other Jews steadfastly adhere, very few of them left voluntarily.
If you think I am posting this to exculpate or excuse the vile acts of Hamas which I abhor and consider atrocities and barbaric war crimes you could not be more wrong. Like D4N, I'm pretty tired of giving this topic and myth believers any more oxygen as well.
"it's a lot of bull in which you have revised and reshaped history to fit the Israeli narrative with a stunning absence of context and leaving out some fairly significant facts . . ."
We're done talking, Lin. You want to continue to write your own myths, do it on your own thread.
Guess you don’t believe the UN is valid international entity, either. The Palestinian Arabs stated so in rejecting the Partition. Now, of course, Palestinians demand the UN condemn Israel for something every week.
Thank you for the link - I for one, had no idea - NONE - as to exactly what the Oslo Accords & the "two state solution" actually meant. It would appear to mean that the Palestinians get to live in Gaza and Israel gets all else! Two states? AND a wall to keep them in. The picture of that wall did it for me. A ghetto really. Why doesnt that make Israelis stop to think?
Its colonialism - just like what was done here to our NATIVE Americans or Africa or India or how many other countries.
I’m not 100% pro Israel either, especially with Netanyahu in power, BUT would you have ethnic cleansing? It’s what has been happening to Israel for a long time and is still happening.
Herb Klinker, Speechwriters are told what to write. They don't make it up. And President Biden's remarks sounded precisely like him and his decades of experience, not someone else.
"Magnificent!" - yes, if you ignore the abysmal conditions imposed by the Israelis on the population daily. At least 1/3 in "extreme poverty. The Israeli Defense Minister's view of Palestinians as "human animals." If truth matters, then context matters and in this case details of Gazan daily life matter. See "The Chris Hedges Report with Professor Norman Finkelstein on Israel's genocidal campaign in Gaza, the world's largest concentration camp."(chrishedges.substack.com)
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Herb, Biden’s latest speeches just keep getting better and better. Even with his hectic schedule, his delivery and obvious empathy make them stand out.
HCR peddles the absurd propaganda that an "errant terrorist missile" destroyed the hospital in Gaza. With our willful, public blindness, the USA and Israel lose the support of the world outside NATO and the "golden billion" countries.
"Israel bombed, probably with a U.S. made Hellfire missile, the courtyard of the Baptist al-Ahli Arab hospital where thousands had sought refuge. A short video of the immediate aftermath shows several dozens if not hundreds of dead and wounded. Doctors later held a press conference while standing among some of the casualties.
"Like other hospitals al-Ahli Arab had been told by Israel to evacuate but could not do so as there are no other places where the sick and wounded, including many intensive care cases, could be cared for.
"Three days earlier, notes the UN, the same hospital had, like others, already been bombed:
"14 October 2023: In Gaza city city and governorate, Ahli Arab Hospital was hit by Israeli airstrikes, partially damaging two floors and damaging the ultrasound and mammography room. Four people were injured. Sources: Al Jazeera V and Personal Communication
"To then claim, as Biden did, that 'the other team' was responsible for the attack is unfathomable....
"The backlash had solidified entrenched positions in the developing world on the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, officials said. They warned that this could derail future diplomatic efforts on Ukraine.
“'We have definitely lost the battle in the Global South,' said one senior G7 diplomat. 'All the work we have done with the Global South [over Ukraine] has been lost . . . Forget about rules, forget about world order. They won’t ever listen to us again.'"
The truth is we don't know who fired the missile that blew up a hospital that had become a haven for refugees.
We only know that Palestinians claim Israel did and Israel claims Hamas did. Very predictably apparently nobody fired the missile.
What we can also say is: IF the United States spends 20 years in a country that had nothing to do with 9-11 twin tower bombing, dropping bombs on the civilian population while claiming that "we" were fighting terrorists, then,
other countries will learn that neat USA Pony trick: To hide behind "fighting terrorists" while simply testing weapons on an innocent civilian population.
As you know Mike, I agree that those 20 years in Afghanistan were a travesty - a horror show of a solution looking for a problem created elsewhere by other people.
But if every element of our intelligence apparatus tells us that it was a bad rocket from a Jihad terrorist group, I think I would take that explanation over ANYTHING that Hamas would claim.
Hamas left their morality in the dust when they accepted billions from Qatar and used it to build a military machine - vs building infrastructure for the people they claim to protect. Tunnels vs water facilities. Rockets instead of more hospitals. Training kids to fight instead of collecting trash properly and growing food.
Hamas has no integrity. Nothing they ever say will be based on truth. They are merciless self aggrandizing political beasts. They warrant eradication - not trust.
We have made many mistakes in foreign policy. And we will make more, I am sure. In some ways we have just continued the "colonial" attitudes of our European ancestors. Lots of blame and shame to go around about that. But Hamas is no better than Nazis or Russian troops who rape and slaughter with glee.
" ... rape and slaughter with glee ..." and disseminate images of the victims ... feeding fires of grief, fear, hatred and more violence ... does nothing to resolve conflict or invite peaceful resolution - only furthers the destructive behaviors on all sides ...
Russia does not want to resolve the conflict (their genocide of their cousins) in Ukraine. And Putin loves the Gaza story. It's all about keeping Russian eyes off his incompetence and his theft of their national treasure at home.
Did you see the AlJazeera footage of the rocket being fired inside Gaza and then making a u-turn into the hospital? Al Jazeera is more trustworthy than any of the media outlets in the US. They named the terrorist organization that fired the rocket and they were associated with Hamas.
I trust Jake Sullivan way more than anyone in the TFFG administration to do everything possible to not get us into WWIII, even though it may have already begun.
We used to watch AlJazeera USA before it was sold. Ali Velshi was awesome. Their news was the least biased I've seen since CNN first came on the air in 1980.
Of course, Velshi is now with MSNBC, but the stories I've seen on the Ukraine War from Al Jazeeri seem to be devoid of commentary.
With all the disinformation that we live with, we have ( I hope) gotten to demand evidence for allegations. The talk of Hamas responsibility for the hospital bombing ,sounds very similar to Trump proving to his believers that the election was stolen
Following weird comment tracking here, I think that, since his "line" is the same as those that are responding directly to the original author of this "thread" who is Herb Clinker.
Per your citation. According to a media bias fact check:
QUESTIONABLE SOURCE
A questionable source exhibits one or more of the following: extreme bias, consistent promotion of propaganda/conspiracies, poor or no sourcing to credible information, a complete lack of transparency, and/or is fake news. Fake News is the deliberate attempt to publish hoaxes and/or disinformation for profit or influence (Learn More). Sources listed in the Questionable Category may be very untrustworthy and should be fact-checked on a per-article basis. Please note sources on this list are not considered fake news unless specifically written in the reasoning section for that source. See all Questionable sources.
Overall, we rate Moon of Alabama Left as Biased and questionable based on the promotion of pro-Russian propaganda and conspiracy theories, the use of poor sources, false claims, and a lack of transparency.
Detailed Report
Questionable Reasoning: Lack of Transparency, False Information, Conspiracy, Propaganda
Bias Rating: LEFT
Factual Reporting: LOW
Country: USA
Press Freedom Rating: MOSTLY FREE
Media Type: Website
Traffic/Popularity: Medium Traffic
MBFC Credibility Rating: LOW CREDIBILITY
History
Moon Of Alabama is a political blog founded in 2004. According to its about page, they are an independent and open forum for members of another blog called the Whiskey Bar. Moon Of Alabama states its purpose as “to discuss politics, economics, philosophy and blogger Billmon’s Whiskey Bar writings.” A Daily Kos article describes Blogger Billmon (pseudonym) as one of the earliest and leading guest bloggers of Daily Kos and a self-admitted financial writer working for a big Wall Street firm.
Read our profile on the United States government and media.
Funded by / Ownership
The editor and the person who runs the blog are anonymous, and the about page states that “Bernhard started and still runs the site, and you can reach the current administrator of this site by emailing Bernhard at MoonofA_at_aol.com (replacing _at_ with @).” The Moon of Alabama does not have advertising, but they do have a donate button, so we assume this is the primary funding method.
Analysis/ Bias
Moon of Alabama looks at the issues from a progressive perspective; for example, this article describes Trump’s cabinet as follows: “Soon Netanyahoo will have the cabinet in place in DC he always dreamed of. A hawkish Pompeo at State, a real torturer as head of the CIA, and now Bolton are already sufficient to protect Israel’s further expansion” The majority of blog posts utilize emotionally loaded headlines such as “Trump Asks Russia To Roll Over – It Won’t” and “John Bolton Wants No Deal With North Korea Or Iran – But Is There Any Other Choice?”
Moon of Alabama utilizes questionable sources such as RT News, Fox News, as well as credible sources such as Bloomberg, NY Times, Haaretz, The Jerusalem Post, Politico, cisac.fsi.stanford.edu, and blogs such as johnhelmer.org.
In this update, we find that Moon of Alabama has become sympathetic toward Russia and the war in Ukraine, often citing misinformation. For example, in this article they claim a false flag Neo-Nazis In Ukraine Fake Incidents To Gain More ‘Western’ Support – Updated. Media credibility rater Newsguard has detailed an extensive list of false and misleading claims regarding Ukraine. Generally, Moon of Alabama is a pro-Russian conspiracy website.
Failed Fact Checks
None in the Last 5 years. See above.
Overall, we rate Moon of Alabama Left as Biased and questionable based on the promotion of pro-Russian propaganda and conspiracy theories, the use of poor sources, false claims, and a lack of transparency. (M. Huitsing 6/6/2018) Updated (12/12/2022)
I completely agree with you. I thought Operation Gaza in 2014 was horrific. This is genocide in no uncertain terms and the U.S. is a funder/contributor/supporter of it.
I agree, but this is a completely different administration that has done everything they can to keep our troops out of harm's way. When was the last time that happened? And don't say under TFFG, because he murdered a Navy Seal in Yemen two weeks into his term.
The trumpers were quick to make fun of the fact he repeated a word 3 times-for emphasis- they attributed it to being confused and stuttering. They should talk.
HCR peddles the absurd propaganda that an "errant terrorist missile" destroyed the hospital in Gaza. With our willful, public blindness, the USA and Israel lose the support of the world outside NATO and the "golden billion" countries.
"Israel bombed, probably with a U.S. made Hellfire missile, the courtyard of the Baptist al-Ahli Arab hospital where thousands had sought refuge. A short video of the immediate aftermath shows several dozens if not hundreds of dead and wounded. Doctors later held a press conference while standing among some of the casualties.
"Like other hospitals al-Ahli Arab had been told by Israel to evacuate but could not do so as there are no other places where the sick and wounded, including many intensive care cases, could be cared for.
"Three days earlier, notes the UN, the same hospital had, like others, already been bombed:
"14 October 2023: In Gaza city city and governorate, Ahli Arab Hospital was hit by Israeli airstrikes, partially damaging two floors and damaging the ultrasound and mammography room. Four people were injured. Sources: Al Jazeera V and Personal Communication
"To then claim, as Biden did, that 'the other team' was responsible for the attack is unfathomable....
"The backlash had solidified entrenched positions in the developing world on the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, officials said. They warned that this could derail future diplomatic efforts on Ukraine.
“'We have definitely lost the battle in the Global South,' said one senior G7 diplomat. 'All the work we have done with the Global South [over Ukraine] has been lost . . . Forget about rules, forget about world order. They won’t ever listen to us again.'"
You are living in an erroneous bubble. You cite this the Alabama publication as the bedrock for your opinions and it is a piece of junk. That is your right.
What is not your right is to continually be rude to Dr. Richardson. It makes you look small and mean. I, personally, can't stand your disrespect towards an author who could actually get you banned from her site. And yet she doesn't.
He was quite active earlier this year. He routinely made wild accusations and resorted to name calling of anyone who disagreed with him (hilariously, "thugly" was his favorite and applied it to many of the most senior commenters on this forum)
He resorted to copy/pasting his diatribes, sometimes over a dozen times per Letter. He was repeatedly reported to the Letters administrator, and finally disappeared from the Letters forum.
I picture Jack Nicholson's face coming through the door in The Shining:
Willful ignorance runs willy nilly in far right media. Let’s get more information before blaming anyone. I want evidence and the truth. God bless Joe Biden’s strong, measured, heartfelt words and his bravery in going into war zone.
John Schmeeckle - "HCR peddles the absurd propaganda..."
Overall, we rate 𝗠𝗼𝗼𝗻 𝗼𝗳 𝗔𝗹𝗮𝗯𝗮𝗺𝗮 Left as Biased and questionable based on the promotion of pro-Russian propaganda and conspiracy theories, the use of poor sources, false claims, and a lack of transparency.
Detailed Report
Questionable Reasoning: Lack of Transparency, False Information, Conspiracy, Propaganda
Mr. Biden continues to speak and act in a way that will secure his place in history as one of the more effective representatives of the US of A. We voted for and received wisdom, courage, experience, humility and HUMANITY. It pains me that so many people think we shouldn't choose another 4 years of the same...In such a start contrast to his predecessor, he RISES to occasions rather than constantly sinking to new lows with every opportunity. I'm confident we'll look back on his tenure with a great deal of gratitude and pride another half century from now, as we currently do for Roosevelt, Eisenhower, Kennedy, etc.
I have said, Biden is the best president in my lifetime. Even when I don't agree with everything he says and does, I understand why he does it, and it makes sense. He has intelligence and integrity, and the latter is non-existent in the Republican Party right now. There are some people like Former Judge J. Michael Luttig in the Republican party who have integrity, and they are not backing the MAGA part of the party. In fact, they are standing with Biden in times of crisis.
I am very grateful for your words and the respectful words of others regarding all who have worked diligently to support both Jews and Palestinians. We should be free to hold different faiths.
Wars are from those who want power without regard , without respect for human life.
I am so grateful for President Joe Biden, for Anthony Blinken and for the many men and women who are a part of his team. Without such patriots, we too may be taken over by despots.
May we always stand for freedom....for decency...for the hope of a better life for all and for the health of our planet. This work is hard...this work takes determination. I am so grateful for President Joe Biden's leadership and for his outstanding team of freedom loving Americans!!!!!!
Dismaying. Especially, after hearing the abysmal conditions imposed upon the Gazans by Israel - for decades. Trapped inside a strip of land 5 miles wide. 1/3 in extreme poverty. Almost 50% unemployment rate. No jobs. Majority under 25.Please see "The Chris Hedges Report with Professor Norman Finkelstein on Israel's genocidal campaign in Gaza, the world's largest concentration camp." (chrishedges.substack.com) How can you ignore the Israel Minister of Defense view of Palestinians as "human animals"?
The conditions “imposed” by Israel are abysmal. Worse than abysmal.
And exactly what has any Arab country done to help their fellow Muslims? Offered refugee status? Offered land, support, humanitarian aid? Engaged in diplomacy with Hamas or Hezbollah? Helped Egypt with equipment for the humanitarian corridor?
Look at a map of the Middle East and North Africa. Tens of thousands of miles of land Arabs could offer as a way to diffuse the situation. Do they? What solutions does the Arab world offer Palestinians?
We have turned a blind eye to the problems of Palestinians throughout. But blaming Israel and the US Government for this complex situation is a pretty naive reading of several thousand years of religious and racial animosity that existed long before the US government got involved. Do we need to clean up our act? In a huge way. But so do the rest of the players in this horribly terrorist-torn region.
Selina, if people attacked your rightful, legal residence, would you then buy them dinner and invite them over for movies and popcorn? Are you noticing that no other countries are assisting the Palestinians? Of course other Jew hating countries will assist Hamas, but that’s another story.
I have to note that well more than half of the reader commentary and a large number of “likes” are about Biden and his performance, not about the 2,000,000 trapped in Gaza, nor about the vengeful savagery that Hamas inflicted on Jewish civilians this month, nor about the policies of a Jewish leader (Netanyahu) who intentionally propped up Hamas in order to weaken the Palestinian authority and lessen the possibility of a two state solution or the emergence of a single non-apartheid state. I am going to guess this is in part because we don’t have a solution to offer. Maybe we have been acting for decades like enablers and should make clear that at the end of the day this is not for the United States to solve.. Deterring other outside powers (Iran) is certainly legitimate but what happened these last few days is not about “us” or our politics. Israel is not an orphaned child; it is a wealthy nuclear and military power. Israelis need to find a lasting solution that is something other than genocide.
O, but it is tied to the US. The US Jewish population and many evangelicals in the US support Israel, Israel provides a strategic military space for the US, and the US has nearly always pledged to support Israel in return for Israel doing what the US wants.
My point is that the US has only minimal influence over the complex conflicts and events in Israel/Palestine, not that there aren't domestic constituencies that push us to "intervene". These interventions often have not been helpful. Seventy-five years after Israel's establishment the conflict festers and erupts. Moreover, I'm not sure that the historical record would support your assertion that Israel does what the US wants. Nor should it do so; Israel is an independent country that must act on its own perceptions of its interests and the people living within it. The conflict is primarily their problem not ours and we are not well equipped to solve it---that's my main assertion.
yes the US is involved and thank you for staying with me. I also appreciate that many wish to support President Biden but I would like to see less focus on our domestic politics and more on the events on the ground and the realization that this may not be a problem for us to solve. We have, as Pres. Biden has noted, a bad history in trying to impose our will in the region. In a phrase, it's really not about us.
HCR peddles the absurd propaganda that an "errant terrorist missile" destroyed the hospital in Gaza. With our willful, public blindness, the USA and Israel lose the support of the world outside NATO and the "golden billion" countries.
"Israel bombed, probably with a U.S. made Hellfire missile, the courtyard of the Baptist al-Ahli Arab hospital where thousands had sought refuge. A short video of the immediate aftermath shows several dozens if not hundreds of dead and wounded. Doctors later held a press conference while standing among some of the casualties.
"Like other hospitals al-Ahli Arab had been told by Israel to evacuate but could not do so as there are no other places where the sick and wounded, including many intensive care cases, could be cared for.
"Three days earlier, notes the UN, the same hospital had, like others, already been bombed:
"14 October 2023: In Gaza city city and governorate, Ahli Arab Hospital was hit by Israeli airstrikes, partially damaging two floors and damaging the ultrasound and mammography room. Four people were injured. Sources: Al Jazeera V and Personal Communication
"To then claim, as Biden did, that 'the other team' was responsible for the attack is unfathomable....
"The backlash had solidified entrenched positions in the developing world on the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, officials said. They warned that this could derail future diplomatic efforts on Ukraine.
“'We have definitely lost the battle in the Global South,' said one senior G7 diplomat. 'All the work we have done with the Global South [over Ukraine] has been lost . . . Forget about rules, forget about world order. They won’t ever listen to us again.'"
John, I just read where a huge segment of our population would agree to Trump serving as POTUS from his prison cell, and this after all that has been disclosed about Putin's puppet. This is the thought that came to my mind from what you penned above: "With our willful, public blindness,. . ." Why do MAGA/KKK Republicans support Trump, even if he is serving time in prison? It's because he represents their core racist feelings. It is so intense (their racism) that they would subvert a democratic system in order to install a white Protestant supremacy autocratic system.
" It's because he represents their core racist feelings."
Richard, my own perspective is that Trump has managed to do something that is only rarely done successfully. He has managed to replicate what Jesus did and what Mohammed did.
He has imbued in many people a feeling that he is some kind of divinely supported leader who has special powers and really, really cares about those who choose to "believe in him".
I have met folks before who are fanatically attached to a belief. Those folks are not going to debate, they are not going to think, they are not going to analyze.
They are going to BELIEVE. And, having chosen to BELIEVE they will defend that belief against any logic.
I ran across these people in my first semester at A&M, knocking on my dorm door and asking me "if I was saved".
Yes. An odd comparison. But I think Mike is comparing the powers of charisma - the ability to get folks to "believe" vs employing critical thinking skills. The concern is that people "believe" as virtual robots and they can be convinced to love or hate. To help or kill.
Jesus had the perfect message. But all too often, his followers have perverted his teachings and used his name to justify all manner of abuse and violence.
You have heard of "Jews for Jesus". I am in the camp of "Nones for Jesus". But no support for the majority of "Christians" who don't have a clue what "Christ's" message was.
Your posts are a valuable reminder that there are still some Christians worthy of respect. More please :)
Mike, not to worry - death is final and, after death, pain free. But, back to the point about Trump. I encourage you to read "A Fever in the Heartland" by Timothy Egan, recounting the rise of the KKK in the Midwest (principally Indiana) in the 1920's. Trump is the "reincarnation) of D.C. Stephenson, the head of the KKK in Indiana and the other states back then. What did Stephenson peddle? Pure KKK" white Protestant supremacy now, white Protestant supremacy forever." I am not a psychiatrist though I do have three advanced degrees. Still, that doesn't qualify me to opine professionally on the matter, but I suspect that, down deep, those evangelicals who support Trump don't truly buy the Christian message, particularly the lessons in Matthew 25: 34-46. But, perhaps they're unfamiliar with 25: 45-46 - "Then he will answer them, 'Truly I say to you, as you did it not to the least of these, you did it not to me.' And they will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life." If i were a believer, this message would scare the hell out of me.
Yes, they will and do, but there is no equivocation in Jesus' words, no qualifications on race, color, creed, national origin or anything else. It's absolute. And so is his promise of eternal damnation. So, my inference. They don't buy it. What are they in reality? Fair weather Christians?
Hats off to Biden and Biden’s speechwriters. This address was magnificent!
Agreed Herb,,,I didn't see or hear a feeble old man, stumbling, bumbling and confused. I saw, and heard an elder statesman with years of experience, pain and wisdom LEADING the way to humanitarian assistance and staunch warnings to all that this was not going to be a time to destroy innocent lives or inflict pain for revenge, or out of anger. He did well. Hard to imagine someone else doing as well.
damnit, will Americans vote Biden up more now? They SHOULD, and should have already. Compare that with the GOP catastrophe in the House.
Frank, compare what Biden did with what Trump might’ve done. Very very scary.
Keeps me awake at night.
Trump would have said the same thing: The United States fully supports Israel....promising military assistance and billions.
Without any mention of what this will mean to the 2.1 Palestinians: further genicide.
Even without the latest Hamas upsurge. So here we remain with a barricaded, impoverished Gaza operated by a Hamas which on one front preaches a One Palestine non-Jewish state across the territories between and including Gaza and West Bank - on the other operates what we could call general civil authorities and administration.
And compare with the gop presidential candidates. 🤡💩 and the gop public servants. And the gop Supreme Court. Grifters. Liars. Haters. So many criminals. 😱🤬
Minority "exceptionalism"
I am discouraged by a poll showing that Swing State voters prefer Trump to Biden over the economy. : < https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-10-19/trump-leads-biden-in-key-us-states-as-voters-worry-about-economy-poll?utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=newsletter_axiosam&stream=top&leadSource=uverify%20wall
Don't forget that the media shows every skewed poll they can trying to show false equivalence for ad clicks. Choose to look at the factual side of actual data that shows Biden just raised $71m in the last quarter alone vs Trump's $45m.
It's hard to ignore this says TFG's "investors" have decided with so many criminal trials and visible cognitive decline he's not worth putting money into. That says way more than one segment of a poll. No question we have work to do for 2024 but, the GOP already sees TFG is an anchor. (see below)
https://www.cnn.com/2023/10/15/politics/joe-biden-2024-reelection-fundraising/index.html
From Simon Rosenberg, Dem strategist who accurately predicted the faux red wave in ‘22.⬇️
“Encouraging Biden and Ohio Polls - A new large sample, high quality NPR/NewsHour/Marist poll has Biden up over Trump 49-47 (+2), and Biden leading Trump in a three way ballot with RFK 44-37-16 (+7).”
https://open.substack.com/pub/simonwdc/p/the-gazan-hospital-good-new-biden?r=fqsxl&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=email
Yes, and some of this is due to RFK pulling twice as many independents (who apparently prefer getting Covid than a vaccination) from TFG than from POTUS.
https://newrepublic.com/post/176308/robert-f-kennedy-jr-independent-hurts-trump-election-chances-poll
I’d like to see him behind bars. Not just a anchor!
The preference for GOP/Trump on the economy has been a long standing as far as I'm concerned false perception of the two parties actual performance. GOP long-term drumbeat may have a lot to do with that, plus an archaic popular view that the Dems' pursuit of social infrastructure has been seen as "socialism" a dirty word across the US, linked to "godless Communism" and likely loaded with a racist bias. My guess. Clinton's failed effort at implementing a healthcare program, then Obama's partial success, likely stimulated outsized efforts by the GOP on that drumbeat. lol I have mistyped "dumb.." twice now.
They never mention that Trump’s “ imaginary “ great economy was the result of Obama. Trump is incompetent to get anything done and the administration pandered to the wealthy. He just rode on Obama’s shirt tails.
And the next president will ride on the Biden Administration's successful financial handling of the pandemic hand-off ails, inflation taming monetary policy, etc., etc. Inflation policy is painful, ie., the necessity of high interest rates to curb folks and business's living on borrowed - nearly free money (1 percent interest). The nation's people and business's were living like drunk sailors on shore leave for far too long; the eventual end result it to divide the total nation value of the money supply making all dollars worth less. Folks in general have a very hard time getting their minds around economics. I'm fearful that Biden, without a massive effort to educate the public will pay a dear price come 2024 election time. In fact, I'm browsing a poll soon that may confirm that; I'll post a link if I think it holds any water. * As I think about it, that will mark twice in my lifetime that I experienced a democrat president being 'handed the bag' of past monetary mismanagement; the first I recall was Carter being handed the necessity to tame inflation with high interest rates. * Also the 2nd oil crisis via OPEC. That was an awful time for average Americans; borrowing was extremely painful. Of course the gop beat him up for it, and then the failed (military and cyclonic sandstorm) hostage rescue in Iran. Reagan gop machine made mincemeat of likely the most honorable, and brilliant (near mensa I.Q.) president in my lifetime as a voter.
Frankly, I don’t trust polls. Remember the Hillary polls?
Neither do I. They are no more than another 'statistic' - eg., "Lies, damned lies, and statistics". A 'Murphy's Law' corollary needs added to that saw regarding 'polls.' However, they do influence a segment of the general public and broadcast frenzy that feel a need to 'jump on some rolling bandwagon.' There are fallacies of faulty logic applicable there that's been widely exploited before - including the election / even the electability of TFG. If you'll recall it was widely exploited by the gop, our adversary countries, and gop ally's broadly on social media. TFG winning was turned into a 'virtual' sure thing, along with the vilification of Clinton.
Years ago when the Maddow blog was still available, we had a person who had worked in polling for years....Carolina Lady with Fan. She explained how polling works and after that I take most polls with a grain of salt.
Bronwyn, Drill down to the original poll. They say "Americans" but the sampling is 1137 people, often online. In the last presidential election, Biden had over 81 million votes. His tfg opponent had over 74 million. 1137 is a tiny drop in the bucket and statistically inaccurate when you think of all the online cheating his cult and the Russians have done to help elect a compulsive liar manchild. These breathless polls are just clickbait for lazy media. Try to avoid them
Skipping any other issues, turns out a properly (random) chosen small sample will generate a plus/minus 5% accurate result, meaning 19 times out of 20. Larger sample sizes dont provide a comparable gain in accuracy. That amazed me when i took a business stats course abt 45 years ago, but the math was reasonably easy to follow. On the other hand we've had historically huge mis-calls.
Frank, maybe 45 years ago statistics were more straightforward. When Tulsi Gabbard ran for president in 2020, she told people how to sign up for polls. We know that Russians had thousands of Facebook accounts in the 2016 election pretending to be Americans. If the media would put the sampling number in the headline or first paragraph instead of saying what “Americans”believe, it would certainly lower my blood pressure!
Exactly right Gigi. I spoke to that above ↓↑, or wherever it landed (lol). Now I've got to read back to find the Bronwyn post to see if he's talking about the poll I'm reading; from your comments, I'm thinking it is, inasmuch as you mention the small, and 'online' sampling. Brava ~
They’re not thinking. Trump would kill US all. Time to educate that food and water are necessities for human life. Gasoline and gold are not. Eggs come from well-fed (grains) chickens (I used to give them watermelon and cantaloupe rinds in summer). I met a package of asparagus last week that said “made in the grocery store.” First time I knew how deceptive the food guys are.
Lol...
D4N: Why is it funny? Too many Americans are too far removed from farms and farming to understand the dangers of climate change. Food is NOT made in the grocery store nor grown there. False advertising is no longer a joke, if ever it was.
Ignore the polls.
Rolyac, for all those who claim that Biden is "too old," "senile," or as Scott Pelley described him, "tired," they need to have watched his bravery, resolve, and statesmanship during the current crisis in the Middle East. Even Netanyahu, who is certainly not aligned with Biden's political brand, was eager to be hosting him - perhaps because "Sleepy Joe" is more popular with the Israelis than Bibi is.
If this man is "tired," he has earned the right to be. People half his age would have fallen apart at this point, and if anyone I know tells me that he's unfit, I will remove them from my contacts list, right after smacking them down.
Consider smacking down Pelley. For quite some time now, I've been turning the tables around on some of these broadcasters, but as tastefully as I can manage. I don't always get wins, but it seems I did get a few. Most recently, I got on Scripps broadcasting for how they were narrative 'spinning' regarding the autoworker's striking, a topic I have in depth knowledge about. Their tenor has changed a bit.
Good for you, D4N. We should all stand up to these self-appointed "experts." It's clear that the motivation is little more than stirring up controversy. The best that they appear to be interested in is both-sides "reporting."
Bibi, is a 'poster boy' wanna' be autocrat; I think I posted an analysis of him here not long ago.
Scott Pelley used every word in the Thesaurus for “old” on 60 Minutes.
I'd be interested to see how long it would take for Scott Pelley or any of the other MSM who are so eager to comment negatively on Biden to keep his schedule. We won't even discuss how he'd negotiate the current poisonous right-wing crap that is constant background noise, trying to upend anything positive to keep our fragile democracy together.
I can’t even imagine the ignorant word salad that would come out of Trumps mouth right now. I’ll never forget the deer in the headlights look on George W’s face when he was told about 911 while he was reading stories to kids. He went on vaca shortly after that. Biden is doing a stellar job.
Yes ... everyone, repeat after Roylac ... Biden, leading as Our elder statesman. "He did well."
Here’s another take on the speech, leaving the question of ‘old age’ aside; focusing more on the ‘leadership’ question as it relates to empire.
https://www.counterpunch.org/2023/10/20/empire-joe-biden-gaslighting-in-tel-aviv/
Talk is cheap.
https://scheerpost.com/2023/10/18/patrick-lawrence-roger-waters-and-the-one-state-solution/
“Israel has to build a wall around itself to keep out the people it forced into refugee camps at its formal founding in 1948, but that is O.K. Incessant violence against the Palestinian population: This is O.K., too—part of the story, as they say. For the sake of its security it must bomb the airports in neighboring countries, as it did this week in Syria and Lebanon. But Israel is Israel, Israel is a great post–World War II success, a monument to human decency and the rule of law, and Israel must be.
And amid this cacophony, all this grating noise, a vast, rueful silence. Among the Western democracies’ countless unsayables, the greatest of these is that the state of Israel, founded on injustice 75 years ago, is a failed experiment. Instead of jubilee celebrations, it is ethnic-cleansing a helpless population—a monstrous memorial to the six million whose names it was intended to honor. In the same way, no one in Washington or among the European vassals can say what needs to be said about the long record of America’s “unconditional support” for Israel: It is the gravest foreign policy failure—among many, of course—in the postwar period.”
Yes-- Biden left all that for another time maybe. That's another strength of his visit. I read that in 6 days, Israel used more bombs on Gaza than we used in 4 years in oh, you know that country we withdrew from a while ago. It was way too many! I'm pretty sure Biden must loathe Netanyahu-- remember how he came over to visit Trump while Barack was president? To show that any treaty we signed could be thrown away the following week? I think that's how it was.
I also heard on the CBC‘s “as it happens“ that the number of bombs that have fallen on Gaza so far exceed the number that fell in Afghanistan in over a year. What struck me was that Gaza is the size of Hoboken New Jersey and Afghanistan is the size of Texas. We are talking true urban warfare here -in very close quarters.
Thank you for the link to that article, Tom. Well worth the read.
Just finished said article. Cogent and timely. We have propped up Israel for far too long. They served their purpose as allies with the intelligence they were well positioned to obtain in a region that started going south on us when the oil rich Arab world began throwing its weight around, highjacking airplanes and finding other ways to tell us to butt out of their business. Cooler heads had better start prevailing in this hotbed of revenge and spite. The eye for an eye thing doesn’t work for an atomic world. It’s completely inimical to life as we need it to be.
Thanks you very much for this Patrick Lawrence article. A great voice, a refreshing take on this tangled knot.
However, I must say, the idea of Palestinians sharing a legislature with Israelis makes our current chaos in the House of Representatives seem like a Latin club at Oxford.
Why not? Both are Semitic and intelligent. Religion is the center of this quarrel, as it has been for how many thousands of years. My god is better than your god. This time the Israelis won on that score. My hope is that the US Catholic bishops will not go after Biden on this one which would denigrate them to the level of jihad. Here we are fighting the crusades (our fault) all over again. As a group, why can’t humans grow up to be nice? My theory: parental beatings and hatred passed from generation to generation. Has everyone noticed Biden’s loving family or are Hunter’s problems all they see? Our president has risen above multiple tragedies to serve with human distinction and grace that should be an example to US all.
Somehow they need to see their common humanity. There was a story years ago about a camp, in the US, that brought together Arab and Israeli teens in the hope they would learn from each other and return home wiser and more tolerant. I wonder what became of that.
You may be referring to an initiative by President Carter. He spent an awful lot of time and capital suing for peace, and in particular between Egypt, Palestinians (Arafat), and Israel; As I recall the Camp David accords were one result.
Has anyone else here any information on this camp?
Could it be revived?
It's way to too late for any kind of peace or understanding or safety for Israel and certainly not for the Palestinians. 100 million in additional aid to Gaza, where the population (50% are children/Hamas supporters) is losing everything: living in rubble, no water, no medical aid, nothing, to be shared with the West Bank: what a joke.
And 10... 15? billion for Israel. .....
More folly of the human race.
I agree. He didn't falter at all; as well, he didn't mince words with wanna' be dictator Bibi, privately and publicly. Uncomfortable diplomacy at it's best by a master of the craft. He also publicly expressed his / our sympathy for the innocent victims in Gaza and Israel. Paraphrasing in his public address, "The majority of Palestinians suffering are 'not' hamas."
Lol....
Sadly, the rejection and wars by the Arabs against the new state, whatever you want to think of that, did more to create the Palestinian disaster. A very different history might taken place with another response. Every war, mind you, that the Arab states LOST.
So, it’s all about winning and losing? Not about right and wrong? Just what ‘another response’ are you referencing here?
From my limited reading/investigation so far, Israel’s decision to pursue hardline Zionism over democracy has done more to ‘create the Palestinian disaster’. But then, I tend to take the side of oppressed over oppressor, so maybe that’s my own bias talking.
I do agree this was a massive Jewish intrusion into Palestine over several generations, and it didn't take long for a Palestinian resistance, even if at the front end Palestinians were selling Jewish immigrants then very low-value land. Anti-semitism in Europe was really the propellant for further immigration esp after the Nazi takeover, and Jews sought futilely to emigrate to eg England, USA, Canada etc, who consistently turned them away. So help yourself to pointing the blame finger. And remember the British aided and abetted the Jewish immigration into Palestine, trying to keep down the un-ending jewish movements, well the movie gives you some idea how that worked out. Ultimately a small majority in the UN supported the creation of both Jewish and Palestinian states. Then all hell broke loose. That, and 2 more brief wars launched by Arabs, all failures. Without the wars the mass removals and flight of Palestinians to Arab countries wouldn't have happened. The alternative would have been a negotiated co-operation. So we've got to a point that a terrorist organization which won power in Gaza by both the ballet box and bullet, gunning down their fellow Gazans, maintains a terrorist campaign on the grounds that Israel has no right to exist. So kudos to your sympathies to Gazans but what kind of outcome do did Hamas' military and terror campaigns have for Gaza? We have a pretty good idea on that right? And in the end, likely 10 to 100 to one kill ratio for their efforts not to mention enormous property and infrastructure damage in Gaza. I do agree, this have been an ongoing tragedy in multiple parts.
Hamas won power because Israel and the U.S. wanted it; a wedge driven to neutralize the PLO. Blowback much? Your kill ratio is, to put it gently, flawed.
Now, back to blame finger follies.
"because Israel and the US wanted it" ... never heard of that myself, here's a Wiki summary of things. https://www.wikiwand.com/en/2006_Palestinian_legislative_election
Feel free to provide real information on the "wedge" thesis, and i just provided a rough idea of outsized casualty ratios, my only point being Palestinian casualties have always been far larger than Israeli.
Hamas certainly does its share of oppression of its own people.
Not saying Hamas isn’t flawed. But come on.
https://www.caitlinjohnst.one/p/us-warmongers-keep-pushing-the-narrative
I agree but to point out this happening at this moment BECAUSE Hamas started this, as the article pointed out. And Lindsay Graham is just a plain Nutbag in my book. Not to be taken seriously by any measure. I agree that Israel needs to take responsibility for their share of essentially imprisoning Palestinians but Hamas also reigns terror on its own people. How do root out Hamas without effecting Palestinians?
I get it Tom; hence I have to regard one conflict at a time there. The current conflict was initiated by the defacto rulers of the Palestinians from territory of the Gaza Strip that was ceded to Palestinians by Israel. This time, "they" - the Palestinians sucker punched Israel; they have the right and responsibility to respond.
You want to re-write history on that blood-soaked piece of earth. Am sure The Christian Crusaders as well as the Muslim Infidels believed each were “right” too. In 2005, there was a fight in The Church of the Holy Sepulcher between Greek Orthodox and Roman Catholics—am sure each thought they were “right” also.
The winner of the war—and there have been so many wars on that piece of earth!—gets management/ownership of the land. Israel won all the wars. Right or not, it’s the way of what we now call The Middle East, and around the world.
Tom, I am posting your very informative Norman Finklestein speech.
Most probably didn't find it yesterday.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NnCf18IRvFk
Like too many, the focus appears to be on the symptoms and not the cause. I agree with Tom High and thank him for the link to the article. I am so pleased that people in this forum are not afraid to address the gorilla in the room.
The whole situation is part of the long standing quagmire in the Middle East, much of the blame for which falls to the Brits in their handling of the Palestinian Mandate after WWI where they treated both groups horribly. I recommend Legacy of Violence about the British Empire in various places and Lawrence in Arabia for insight into the players in the area around WWI. Also Arab countries have refused to take Palestinian refugees after the creation of Israel and still don't want them. Both the Israelis and groups like Hamas bear the blame for their treatment of ordinary Palestinians. We also have Jerusalem, sacred place for three religions who have much in common. There are no easy solutions. The one good thing that may come of this is the rejection in the end of the corrupt Bibi.
Thank you for the reading recommendations, they are now lined up on my kindle! :-)
Good. I thought Lawrence in Arabia was one of the best histories I had read in a long time. The one on the British Empire showed me how so many current situations go back to their empire. at least in part.
Yep.
Do you think crusades too?
Yes, that issue added to the problem way back when.
I completely disagree. I have studied the history which is, of course, complicated but from its inception after WWI, when Great Britain won the war and mapped out a place to be shared by Jews and Muslims it was the Muslims who refused to accept the Jewish people. Great Britain tried to moderate but failed and turned the problem over to the UN which, like Britain came up with a two state solution which the Palestinians rejected. After Israel declared itself a state, it was attacked on all sides by Arabs and won the war. Instead of accepting it lost the war the Palestinians began its unending grievance campaign of rage and terror attacks. The Arab nations not only expelled all their Jewish population, it also refused to allow the Palestinians to gain citizenship, the ability to work and any rights. Did the Palestinians blame their inhospitable neighbors? No. They blamed the Jews. Israel is itself a nation largely populated by Holocaust refugees and refugees of Russian pograms. After additional attacks in the 1960s by Arab countries, Israel again won and obtained even more land. Israel gave most of the land back which it didn’t have to do in exchange for peace. Instead it became the victim of countless terror attacks carried out by the PLO including the kidnapping and murder of Israels athletes at the Olympics in 1972, bombed busses, suicide bombers, additional kidnappings and more. So even though Palestinians lost the war in 1947-48 it is still contesting the results. The walls around Israel didn’t go up right away but only after repeated attempts to live without a wall resulted in escalating terror attacks against Israeli civilians.
The population is largely radicalized around the mission of elimination of the State of Israel and all Jews. And that was over 50 years ago before Hamas existed and became more extreme. They not only torture, butcher, kill and kidnap innocent children, babies, men and women, they videotape themselves committing these atrocities and not only brag about it - they rejoice publicly about it. They post pictures of themselves on social media attacking Israel and are hailed in Iran and other countries as great victors!
After all that did Israel declare a day of rage, burn Palestinian flags, surround embassies? No. They mourned and set about trying to save the hundreds of hostages taken. Of course they bombed Gaza. There are still missiles being fired upon Israel from Gaza. As Hamas demands an end to Israel’s bombing it is actively bombing Israel and holding on to hundreds of hostages. They like hostages- the ultimate weapon of terror.
So I respectfully disagree with your assessment of the situation. Every attempt to mediate a two state solution has been derailed by terror attacks. I don’t think much of the current prime minister of Israel- his hard right and unlawful actions have done much to discredit the Israeli government. He is a wanna-be autocrat. But past prime ministers have done much work towards peace. And Israelis do not celebrate the murder of civilians or threaten endless rage campaigns.
I’ve studied history as well. It’s interesting how your studies seem to indicate a preference to always come down on the Israeli side of wall, as it were.
It comes down on the Israeli side of wall when facts dictate that it should. In this case, the Arab state would today be thriving on half of Palestine, next to Israel on the other half, if Arabs had said yes. They chose to invade Israel instead to take both halves for an all-Arab State of Palestine, and their loss to Jewish defenders proved disastrous.
Israel gets some blame for some of the things that have happened over the decades. But Israel being built on half of Palestine in 1948 is not one of them. The Jews of Palestine were as entitled as the Arabs of Palestine to a state of their own, and they didn't make the Arabs go to war. That's on Arabs.
The Arab Palestinians, now called Palestinians, have been betrayed or abandoned by its leaders since 1947. It’s very sad.
So of course they blame the Jews, the eternal scapegoat.
Agree completely, 60. Smart Arab leaders would have taken the offer and run in 1948, avoiding the next 75 years of humiliation and blood. They betrayed their own people, and the new crop is even worse.
Ah, the ol’ half a loaf meme. ‘Israel being built on… half of Palestine’. Couldn’t have expressed it better myself. Thank you!
What are you talking about? That's exactly what should have happened in 1948: half the land to Palestine's Jews, half to Palestine's Arabs. Had the latter said yes, today they'd be partners instead of enemies.
But losing the wars of conquest waged by Palestine's Arabs to steal the half owned by Palestine's Jews--i.e., the legally formed State of Israel--changed the paradigm of nationhood forever, and not in the Arabs' favor.
I recommend everyone read Legacy of Violence if they think the Brits did a great job in Palestine.
Sadly, those are the facts in evidence Tom. If you disagree with facts in evidence that's an altogether different matter.
My understanding is how you describe it. I'd add the number of Jews that were expelled from Arab countries and 'sent' to Israel, along with survivors of the Russian pogroms and Holocaust was close to a million. Palestinians share with Israelis and Jews worldwide the experience of having been rejected and/or tormented by our neighbors.
The right drones on about American exceptionalism! However, the American and British negotiators after World War I and World War II were EXceptionally Bad at creating redrawing national boundaries after each war!
What would you have done.
Accepted Jewish refugees into Britain and France, instead of displacing an indigenous population.
Sounds really sane. How would you have sold that idea to those Countries?
Check this book for details: The Last Million by David Nasaw. Interview on C-span...
But, of course, the US understands and supports - and partcipates in - genocide. You and I live on land taken from a sophisticated culture by force and by the murder of millions of people.
Please don't use the word genocide: it has become vulgar.
Genocide IS vulgar. What would you like to use instead? Ethnic cleansing? Denial is also vulgar.
It has become vulgar in it's overuse. No one is in denial.
What word shall I use to indicate an action that is meant to - and does - kill an entire population?
You are right.. altho the word is overused and heavily political, what settlers did to the Indigenous people in North America was genocide.
And what Israel is doing to the Palestinians is a one hundred year process of genocide. Theodor Herzl's plan, formed in 1895, was (and still is) to remove - one way or another - all Palestinians from "our land". What Israel is doing now is attempted genocide. That is not a political statement - it is a monstrous fact.
Roger Waters? Seriously? Major antisemite. Pogroms in Israel, yet again and again and again it’s the Jews fault. Enough of the hating the Jewish People. After millennia of these crap tactics which Do. Not. WORK! Give it a rest.
Major antisemite? Prove it. You do understand thinking that being opposed to Israeli government policy and hating the Jewish people are inextricably connected is absurd, fallacious mental gymnastics? Maybe not.
https://www.caitlinjohnst.one/p/israel-is-just-a-nonstop-bombing
This excerpt made me wonder if the entire story would be a steaming pile of yak dung. So, to be sure, I hit the link and read every word.
Yep. Steaming pile of yak.
Israel exists as legally and morally as any other nation built on forfeited Ottoman Empire land in the postwar era. Those six nations were Syria, Jordan, Lebanon, Iraq, Israel, and Palestine. The Mandate system, set up by the League of Nations after WWI to distribute Allied-conquered Ottoman land to local populations for states of their own, made the same offer to all six:
"Here's your land, free for the taking. Ready to build and govern your own state?"
The first five people said yes, built their states, and got on with their lives. The last, the Muslim Arabs of Palestine, told Mandate powers to get lost and invaded newborn Israel instead, with the goal of conquering it and merging both halves of geographic Palestine into an all-Arab State of Palestine.
That plan went kablooey when Jews won that War of 1948, thereby capturing some of the land Muslim Arabs could have used to build Palestine if they'd said yes. Remember, Israel haters: Palestine was NOT an "Arab nation" or "Islamic land." It was a province of the Ottoman Empire on which two peoples would eventually have legitimate claims to states via the Mandate system: Arabs AND Jews, not just Arabs.
If Arabs had said "Yes!" instead of "Open fire!, they'd have been living free and prosperous next to Israel for 75 years. Instead, their invasions of Israel in 1967 and 1973, Intifadas that murdered thousands of Jews in the 1980s and 1990s, and the Hamas massacre just two weeks ago, guaranteed their self-inflicted "Nakba" never healed.
Do I want Palestinians to have their own sovereign state? Yes, I do. They deserve a place of their own just as Israelis do. But Israelis aren't stopping them from getting that. They're stopping themselves.
Palis need to get realistic about what that state's size and contours will be, because waging and losing three wars of annihilation against a state that did nothing to you but exist carries strong penalties. You will not get Jerusalem, you will not get the right of return. You will get land and permanent borders and the freedom to run your place as you see fit, provided it doesn't harm your neighbors. So suck it up, take what you can negotiate with sovereign power Israel, build your state, and thrive in peace. Do it NOW, to differentiate yourself from the murdering viper of Hamas.
When peace finally breaks out, you and Israel can join other decent neighbors to fight those real enemies: Hamas, Hezbollah, Taliban, Islamic State, and their paymaster, Iran, the terrorists who want to destroy not just Israel, but all of you, to return the Middle East to Caliphate status with its rejection of modernity and murder of any who dare object.
Don't let what them do to you what they did to Afghans. Partner up and win.
Thanks Shane. Very nicely presented.
You're welcome, Gail, I appreciate your taking the time!
Spot on history lesson Shane. You expended more effort there than I would care to, so kudo's to you friend. For me, I'm done giving this topic and myth believers any more oxygen.
Much obliged, D4N, thanks for this. I spent far more time and effort than I would normally, too, but needed to get all this out of system :-)
I 'get it' Shane.
Wait. Back up a moment please. You lost me somewhere between the Mandate system set up by the League of Nations after WWI.
"The Mandate system, set up by the League of Nations after WWI to distribute Allied-conquered Ottoman land to local populations for states of their own, made the same offer to all six:
"Here's your land, free for the taking. Ready to build and govern your own state?"
The first five people said yes, built their states, and got on with their lives. The last, the Muslim Arabs of Palestine, told Mandate powers to get lost and invaded newborn Israel instead, with the goal of conquering it and merging both halves of geographic Palestine into an all-Arab State of Palestine. "
Except you jump almost 30 years and leave out a great deal of extremely pertinent history and what you have written is not quite accurate. In fact it's a lot of bull in which you have revised and reshaped history to fit the Israeli narrative with a stunning absence of context and leaving out some fairly significant facts such as how the British completely sold out the Palestinians with the Balfour Declaration (oh yeah, remember that?) and how in the original mandate contrary to your ridiculous fantasy the Palestinians were promised their own state along with the other five countries but the reason they never got it was not because they turned it down but because the Brits had engaged in a whole of lot of shady dealings behind the scenes, negotiations about who would get Palestine with significant input and lobbying by the Zionists primarily Weizmann, and no input by the Palestinians.
The ultimate decision about division of the land was made was made in the absence of any consultation with the Palestinians whatsoever and land on which the Palestinian people had lived for two millennia was given away by Great Britain under the Balfour Declaration for the purpose of establishing the Jewish state based on the Zionists' assertion for decades that Palestine was the Biblical homeland of the Jews who were entitled to it on that basis. The rights of the indigenous Palestinian population were never acknowledged, a consideration or an issue.
So yes, indeed, they did not take it well when their lands, homes, olive groves and orchards were expropriated and 750,000 Palestinians were forced out of Israel and contrary to the narrative Israel continues to promote, and to which American and other Jews steadfastly adhere, very few of them left voluntarily.
If you think I am posting this to exculpate or excuse the vile acts of Hamas which I abhor and consider atrocities and barbaric war crimes you could not be more wrong. Like D4N, I'm pretty tired of giving this topic and myth believers any more oxygen as well.
"it's a lot of bull in which you have revised and reshaped history to fit the Israeli narrative with a stunning absence of context and leaving out some fairly significant facts . . ."
We're done talking, Lin. You want to continue to write your own myths, do it on your own thread.
The idea has been to make life so rough for the Palestinians that they would leave.
Baloney. Absent terror attacks from the territories, Israel would have left them alone to do their thing.
Uhhhh, no.
Agreed!
Founded on injustice?
Guess you don’t believe the UN is valid international entity, either. The Palestinian Arabs stated so in rejecting the Partition. Now, of course, Palestinians demand the UN condemn Israel for something every week.
Thank you for the link - I for one, had no idea - NONE - as to exactly what the Oslo Accords & the "two state solution" actually meant. It would appear to mean that the Palestinians get to live in Gaza and Israel gets all else! Two states? AND a wall to keep them in. The picture of that wall did it for me. A ghetto really. Why doesnt that make Israelis stop to think?
Its colonialism - just like what was done here to our NATIVE Americans or Africa or India or how many other countries.
Our history is tainted. But I'd not use the same brush.
The wall went up after the suicide bombers from The West Bank, not before.
I’m not 100% pro Israel either, especially with Netanyahu in power, BUT would you have ethnic cleansing? It’s what has been happening to Israel for a long time and is still happening.
Herb Klinker, Speechwriters are told what to write. They don't make it up. And President Biden's remarks sounded precisely like him and his decades of experience, not someone else.
"Magnificent!" - yes, if you ignore the abysmal conditions imposed by the Israelis on the population daily. At least 1/3 in "extreme poverty. The Israeli Defense Minister's view of Palestinians as "human animals." If truth matters, then context matters and in this case details of Gazan daily life matter. See "The Chris Hedges Report with Professor Norman Finkelstein on Israel's genocidal campaign in Gaza, the world's largest concentration camp."(chrishedges.substack.com)
Max Blumenthal, Amy Goodman, Katy Halper,,Aaron Mate and members of Jewish Voice for Peace provide a much needed perspective on this conflict
I invite you to do some LEGITIMATE research on the t
“QUESTIONABLE SOURCE
A questionable source exhibits one or more of the following: extreme bias, consistent promotion of propaganda/conspiracies, poor or no sourcing of credible information, a complete lack of transparency, and/or is fake news. Fake News is the deliberate attempt to publish hoaxes and/or disinformation for profit or influence (Learn More). Sources listed in the Questionable Category may be very untrustworthy and should be fact-checked on a per-article basis. Please note sources on this list are not considered fake news unless specifically written in the reasoning section for that source. See all Questionable sources.“
All of these are well respected journalists and definitely are NOT “questionable sources”!
From Media Bias Fact Check
QUESTIONABLE SOURCE
A questionable source exhibits one or more of the following: extreme bias, consistent promotion of propaganda/conspiracies, poor or no sourcing of credible information, a complete lack of transparency, and/or is fake news. Fake News is the deliberate attempt to publish hoaxes and/or disinformation for profit or influence (Learn More). Sources listed in the Questionable Category may be very untrustworthy and should be fact-checked on a per-article basis. Please note sources on this list are not considered fake news unless specifically written in the reasoning section for that source. See all Questionable sources.
Overall, we rate The Jewish Voice (TJV) Right Biased and Questionable based on the promotion of right-wing propaganda, pseudoscience, conspiracy theories, poor sources, and several examples of false or misleading claims.
Detailed Report
Questionable Reasoning: Conspiracy Theories, Pseudoscience, Propaganda, Poor Sourcing, False Claims
Bias Rating: FAR RIGHT
Factual Reporting: MIXED
Country: USA
Press Freedom Rank: MOSTLY FREE
Media Type: Newspaper
Traffic/Popularity: Medium Traffic
MBFC Credibility Rating: LOW CREDIBILITY
Thanks, Barbara M. It is critically important that we understand bias in reporting.
I disagree.
On the resources I listed,
Was Gaza the world’s largest concentration camp before the Egyptian and Israeli blockade?
Ever ask that question?
Herb, Biden’s latest speeches just keep getting better and better. Even with his hectic schedule, his delivery and obvious empathy make them stand out.
The US is so lucky to have Biden as president. We know that. How do you get more Americans to know that?
HCR peddles the absurd propaganda that an "errant terrorist missile" destroyed the hospital in Gaza. With our willful, public blindness, the USA and Israel lose the support of the world outside NATO and the "golden billion" countries.
"Israel bombed, probably with a U.S. made Hellfire missile, the courtyard of the Baptist al-Ahli Arab hospital where thousands had sought refuge. A short video of the immediate aftermath shows several dozens if not hundreds of dead and wounded. Doctors later held a press conference while standing among some of the casualties.
"Like other hospitals al-Ahli Arab had been told by Israel to evacuate but could not do so as there are no other places where the sick and wounded, including many intensive care cases, could be cared for.
"Three days earlier, notes the UN, the same hospital had, like others, already been bombed:
"14 October 2023: In Gaza city city and governorate, Ahli Arab Hospital was hit by Israeli airstrikes, partially damaging two floors and damaging the ultrasound and mammography room. Four people were injured. Sources: Al Jazeera V and Personal Communication
"To then claim, as Biden did, that 'the other team' was responsible for the attack is unfathomable....
"The backlash had solidified entrenched positions in the developing world on the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, officials said. They warned that this could derail future diplomatic efforts on Ukraine.
“'We have definitely lost the battle in the Global South,' said one senior G7 diplomat. 'All the work we have done with the Global South [over Ukraine] has been lost . . . Forget about rules, forget about world order. They won’t ever listen to us again.'"
https://www.moonofalabama.org/2023/10/wests-pro-israel-position-accelerates-its-loss-of-power.html
Speckle,
The truth is we don't know who fired the missile that blew up a hospital that had become a haven for refugees.
We only know that Palestinians claim Israel did and Israel claims Hamas did. Very predictably apparently nobody fired the missile.
What we can also say is: IF the United States spends 20 years in a country that had nothing to do with 9-11 twin tower bombing, dropping bombs on the civilian population while claiming that "we" were fighting terrorists, then,
other countries will learn that neat USA Pony trick: To hide behind "fighting terrorists" while simply testing weapons on an innocent civilian population.
As you know Mike, I agree that those 20 years in Afghanistan were a travesty - a horror show of a solution looking for a problem created elsewhere by other people.
But if every element of our intelligence apparatus tells us that it was a bad rocket from a Jihad terrorist group, I think I would take that explanation over ANYTHING that Hamas would claim.
Hamas left their morality in the dust when they accepted billions from Qatar and used it to build a military machine - vs building infrastructure for the people they claim to protect. Tunnels vs water facilities. Rockets instead of more hospitals. Training kids to fight instead of collecting trash properly and growing food.
Hamas has no integrity. Nothing they ever say will be based on truth. They are merciless self aggrandizing political beasts. They warrant eradication - not trust.
We have made many mistakes in foreign policy. And we will make more, I am sure. In some ways we have just continued the "colonial" attitudes of our European ancestors. Lots of blame and shame to go around about that. But Hamas is no better than Nazis or Russian troops who rape and slaughter with glee.
" ... rape and slaughter with glee ..." and disseminate images of the victims ... feeding fires of grief, fear, hatred and more violence ... does nothing to resolve conflict or invite peaceful resolution - only furthers the destructive behaviors on all sides ...
Yes.
Russia does not want to resolve the conflict (their genocide of their cousins) in Ukraine. And Putin loves the Gaza story. It's all about keeping Russian eyes off his incompetence and his theft of their national treasure at home.
Completely agree Bill.
Did you see the AlJazeera footage of the rocket being fired inside Gaza and then making a u-turn into the hospital? Al Jazeera is more trustworthy than any of the media outlets in the US. They named the terrorist organization that fired the rocket and they were associated with Hamas.
I trust Jake Sullivan way more than anyone in the TFFG administration to do everything possible to not get us into WWIII, even though it may have already begun.
AlJazeera is based in Qatar. Qatar is the largest contributor to Hamas. So its reporting may be biased.
We used to watch AlJazeera USA before it was sold. Ali Velshi was awesome. Their news was the least biased I've seen since CNN first came on the air in 1980.
Of course, Velshi is now with MSNBC, but the stories I've seen on the Ukraine War from Al Jazeeri seem to be devoid of commentary.
I was sorry Al Gore sold Al Jeerza USA also. In the beginning, it was excellent
A level and trustworthy analysis of what happened in Gaza. Sources are not beholden to either side.
https://open.substack.com/pub/tcinla757/p/an-analysis-of-the-hospital-bombing?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android&r=elruf
With all the disinformation that we live with, we have ( I hope) gotten to demand evidence for allegations. The talk of Hamas responsibility for the hospital bombing ,sounds very similar to Trump proving to his believers that the election was stolen
You trying to reason with this speckle guy? waste of time and space.
Why are you here? What an absolute lunatic.
Rickey Woody Writes Rickey’s Newsletter -Woodchuck' - "Why are you here? What an absolute lunatic."
To whom are you referring to?
"You talking to me?" --𝘛𝘢𝘹𝘪 𝘋𝘳𝘪𝘷𝘦𝘳
Following weird comment tracking here, I think that, since his "line" is the same as those that are responding directly to the original author of this "thread" who is Herb Clinker.
Ally House (Oregon) Writes View From the Back Row -- "Following weird comment tracking here"
An understatement. And my point exactly.
Per your citation. According to a media bias fact check:
QUESTIONABLE SOURCE
A questionable source exhibits one or more of the following: extreme bias, consistent promotion of propaganda/conspiracies, poor or no sourcing to credible information, a complete lack of transparency, and/or is fake news. Fake News is the deliberate attempt to publish hoaxes and/or disinformation for profit or influence (Learn More). Sources listed in the Questionable Category may be very untrustworthy and should be fact-checked on a per-article basis. Please note sources on this list are not considered fake news unless specifically written in the reasoning section for that source. See all Questionable sources.
Overall, we rate Moon of Alabama Left as Biased and questionable based on the promotion of pro-Russian propaganda and conspiracy theories, the use of poor sources, false claims, and a lack of transparency.
Detailed Report
Questionable Reasoning: Lack of Transparency, False Information, Conspiracy, Propaganda
Bias Rating: LEFT
Factual Reporting: LOW
Country: USA
Press Freedom Rating: MOSTLY FREE
Media Type: Website
Traffic/Popularity: Medium Traffic
MBFC Credibility Rating: LOW CREDIBILITY
History
Moon Of Alabama is a political blog founded in 2004. According to its about page, they are an independent and open forum for members of another blog called the Whiskey Bar. Moon Of Alabama states its purpose as “to discuss politics, economics, philosophy and blogger Billmon’s Whiskey Bar writings.” A Daily Kos article describes Blogger Billmon (pseudonym) as one of the earliest and leading guest bloggers of Daily Kos and a self-admitted financial writer working for a big Wall Street firm.
Read our profile on the United States government and media.
Funded by / Ownership
The editor and the person who runs the blog are anonymous, and the about page states that “Bernhard started and still runs the site, and you can reach the current administrator of this site by emailing Bernhard at MoonofA_at_aol.com (replacing _at_ with @).” The Moon of Alabama does not have advertising, but they do have a donate button, so we assume this is the primary funding method.
Analysis/ Bias
Moon of Alabama looks at the issues from a progressive perspective; for example, this article describes Trump’s cabinet as follows: “Soon Netanyahoo will have the cabinet in place in DC he always dreamed of. A hawkish Pompeo at State, a real torturer as head of the CIA, and now Bolton are already sufficient to protect Israel’s further expansion” The majority of blog posts utilize emotionally loaded headlines such as “Trump Asks Russia To Roll Over – It Won’t” and “John Bolton Wants No Deal With North Korea Or Iran – But Is There Any Other Choice?”
Moon of Alabama utilizes questionable sources such as RT News, Fox News, as well as credible sources such as Bloomberg, NY Times, Haaretz, The Jerusalem Post, Politico, cisac.fsi.stanford.edu, and blogs such as johnhelmer.org.
In this update, we find that Moon of Alabama has become sympathetic toward Russia and the war in Ukraine, often citing misinformation. For example, in this article they claim a false flag Neo-Nazis In Ukraine Fake Incidents To Gain More ‘Western’ Support – Updated. Media credibility rater Newsguard has detailed an extensive list of false and misleading claims regarding Ukraine. Generally, Moon of Alabama is a pro-Russian conspiracy website.
Failed Fact Checks
None in the Last 5 years. See above.
Overall, we rate Moon of Alabama Left as Biased and questionable based on the promotion of pro-Russian propaganda and conspiracy theories, the use of poor sources, false claims, and a lack of transparency. (M. Huitsing 6/6/2018) Updated (12/12/2022)
Source: https://www.moonofalabama.org/
I completely agree with you. I thought Operation Gaza in 2014 was horrific. This is genocide in no uncertain terms and the U.S. is a funder/contributor/supporter of it.
I agree, but this is a completely different administration that has done everything they can to keep our troops out of harm's way. When was the last time that happened? And don't say under TFFG, because he murdered a Navy Seal in Yemen two weeks into his term.
Biden is sending more weapons to Israel. That's why I say we are complicent.
To John Schmeeckle: "HCR peddles the absurd propaganda that an "errant terrorist missile" destroyed the hospital in Gaza."
And you know that is "absurd propaganda" how, exactly? Because Hamas says so? That's pathetic.
Biden is gold. Jordan is dross. Third rate at that.
Biden repeated so much propaganda and misinformation that he should forget about running for president.
The trumpers were quick to make fun of the fact he repeated a word 3 times-for emphasis- they attributed it to being confused and stuttering. They should talk.
Thank you once again, Heather. I am so glad to see that President Biden accomplished what he set out to do; more so, that he has returned safely.
HCR peddles the absurd propaganda that an "errant terrorist missile" destroyed the hospital in Gaza. With our willful, public blindness, the USA and Israel lose the support of the world outside NATO and the "golden billion" countries.
"Israel bombed, probably with a U.S. made Hellfire missile, the courtyard of the Baptist al-Ahli Arab hospital where thousands had sought refuge. A short video of the immediate aftermath shows several dozens if not hundreds of dead and wounded. Doctors later held a press conference while standing among some of the casualties.
"Like other hospitals al-Ahli Arab had been told by Israel to evacuate but could not do so as there are no other places where the sick and wounded, including many intensive care cases, could be cared for.
"Three days earlier, notes the UN, the same hospital had, like others, already been bombed:
"14 October 2023: In Gaza city city and governorate, Ahli Arab Hospital was hit by Israeli airstrikes, partially damaging two floors and damaging the ultrasound and mammography room. Four people were injured. Sources: Al Jazeera V and Personal Communication
"To then claim, as Biden did, that 'the other team' was responsible for the attack is unfathomable....
"The backlash had solidified entrenched positions in the developing world on the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, officials said. They warned that this could derail future diplomatic efforts on Ukraine.
“'We have definitely lost the battle in the Global South,' said one senior G7 diplomat. 'All the work we have done with the Global South [over Ukraine] has been lost . . . Forget about rules, forget about world order. They won’t ever listen to us again.'"
https://www.moonofalabama.org/2023/10/wests-pro-israel-position-accelerates-its-loss-of-power.html
Aren't you glad you live in America. You spout stuff like this in China, North Korea, Hungary, China or Russia, you would be in a cell.
It is great to ne an American!
Rickey, you go man.
A perfect response. Thank you 🙏
Don’t respond to this guy.. no likes or replies. He doesn’t deserve any attention whatsoever.
He's the "scroll on by" guy.
Exactly.
You are living in an erroneous bubble. You cite this the Alabama publication as the bedrock for your opinions and it is a piece of junk. That is your right.
What is not your right is to continually be rude to Dr. Richardson. It makes you look small and mean. I, personally, can't stand your disrespect towards an author who could actually get you banned from her site. And yet she doesn't.
Barbara, thankfully HCR doesn’t just preach freedom of speech, she actually allows it!
Yes she does. I also believe in defending people when they are being attacked.
Substack Inc has contractual responsibility to ' Readers' under their CA chosen law.
Speckle,
"C'mon man".
Why doesn't everyone just completely ignore speckle, like we do with petulant children clamoring for attention?
He was quite active earlier this year. He routinely made wild accusations and resorted to name calling of anyone who disagreed with him (hilariously, "thugly" was his favorite and applied it to many of the most senior commenters on this forum)
He resorted to copy/pasting his diatribes, sometimes over a dozen times per Letter. He was repeatedly reported to the Letters administrator, and finally disappeared from the Letters forum.
I picture Jack Nicholson's face coming through the door in The Shining:
Here's Johnny!!
No more oxygen.
Actually, Thugly the Troll was joined by fellow trolls Skidmark and Harmless, not to mention the crooked lawyer.
You could also picture Arnold's face at the police station:
"I'll be back"
Exactly; no more oxygen.
Willful ignorance runs willy nilly in far right media. Let’s get more information before blaming anyone. I want evidence and the truth. God bless Joe Biden’s strong, measured, heartfelt words and his bravery in going into war zone.
John Schmeeckle - "HCR peddles the absurd propaganda..."
Overall, we rate 𝗠𝗼𝗼𝗻 𝗼𝗳 𝗔𝗹𝗮𝗯𝗮𝗺𝗮 Left as Biased and questionable based on the promotion of pro-Russian propaganda and conspiracy theories, the use of poor sources, false claims, and a lack of transparency.
Detailed Report
Questionable Reasoning: Lack of Transparency, False Information, Conspiracy, Propaganda
Bias Rating: LEFT
Factual Reporting: LOW
Country: USA
Press Freedom Rating: MOSTLY FREE
Media Type: Website
Traffic/Popularity: Medium Traffic
MBFC Credibility Rating: LOW CREDIBILITY
https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/moon-of-alabama/
Ron - looking at the site - the heading "where barflies get together" - just might say it all!!
Their strong point is battlefield assessments.
Morning, Lynell. Agreed on the tag of your post.
Mr. Biden continues to speak and act in a way that will secure his place in history as one of the more effective representatives of the US of A. We voted for and received wisdom, courage, experience, humility and HUMANITY. It pains me that so many people think we shouldn't choose another 4 years of the same...In such a start contrast to his predecessor, he RISES to occasions rather than constantly sinking to new lows with every opportunity. I'm confident we'll look back on his tenure with a great deal of gratitude and pride another half century from now, as we currently do for Roosevelt, Eisenhower, Kennedy, etc.
I have said, Biden is the best president in my lifetime. Even when I don't agree with everything he says and does, I understand why he does it, and it makes sense. He has intelligence and integrity, and the latter is non-existent in the Republican Party right now. There are some people like Former Judge J. Michael Luttig in the Republican party who have integrity, and they are not backing the MAGA part of the party. In fact, they are standing with Biden in times of crisis.
I totally agree. His empathy is inspiring, and it sets a standard that all future presidential candidates should be required to meet.
Yet again, another character trait...
Just Sayin',
I am very grateful for your words and the respectful words of others regarding all who have worked diligently to support both Jews and Palestinians. We should be free to hold different faiths.
Wars are from those who want power without regard , without respect for human life.
I am so grateful for President Joe Biden, for Anthony Blinken and for the many men and women who are a part of his team. Without such patriots, we too may be taken over by despots.
May we always stand for freedom....for decency...for the hope of a better life for all and for the health of our planet. This work is hard...this work takes determination. I am so grateful for President Joe Biden's leadership and for his outstanding team of freedom loving Americans!!!!!!
Dismaying. Especially, after hearing the abysmal conditions imposed upon the Gazans by Israel - for decades. Trapped inside a strip of land 5 miles wide. 1/3 in extreme poverty. Almost 50% unemployment rate. No jobs. Majority under 25.Please see "The Chris Hedges Report with Professor Norman Finkelstein on Israel's genocidal campaign in Gaza, the world's largest concentration camp." (chrishedges.substack.com) How can you ignore the Israel Minister of Defense view of Palestinians as "human animals"?
The conditions “imposed” by Israel are abysmal. Worse than abysmal.
And exactly what has any Arab country done to help their fellow Muslims? Offered refugee status? Offered land, support, humanitarian aid? Engaged in diplomacy with Hamas or Hezbollah? Helped Egypt with equipment for the humanitarian corridor?
Look at a map of the Middle East and North Africa. Tens of thousands of miles of land Arabs could offer as a way to diffuse the situation. Do they? What solutions does the Arab world offer Palestinians?
We have turned a blind eye to the problems of Palestinians throughout. But blaming Israel and the US Government for this complex situation is a pretty naive reading of several thousand years of religious and racial animosity that existed long before the US government got involved. Do we need to clean up our act? In a huge way. But so do the rest of the players in this horribly terrorist-torn region.
Yes, I completely agree with you, Selina. I also listened to Chris Hedges Report with Norman Finkelstein.
Selina, if people attacked your rightful, legal residence, would you then buy them dinner and invite them over for movies and popcorn? Are you noticing that no other countries are assisting the Palestinians? Of course other Jew hating countries will assist Hamas, but that’s another story.
It surprises me that something like the horrors of 10/7 had not already happened, in light of the conditions you outline.
Selina, this is straight to the interview with Norman Finklestein
packed with insights. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B0aemeCbRTk&list=PLy_O1FuTWPSErF5OCxvyUgzJs_yVmP6Wu&index=20
I agree, Just Sayin'. It is a shame we have to wait a half-century or more for his true effectiveness to come to light.
I have to note that well more than half of the reader commentary and a large number of “likes” are about Biden and his performance, not about the 2,000,000 trapped in Gaza, nor about the vengeful savagery that Hamas inflicted on Jewish civilians this month, nor about the policies of a Jewish leader (Netanyahu) who intentionally propped up Hamas in order to weaken the Palestinian authority and lessen the possibility of a two state solution or the emergence of a single non-apartheid state. I am going to guess this is in part because we don’t have a solution to offer. Maybe we have been acting for decades like enablers and should make clear that at the end of the day this is not for the United States to solve.. Deterring other outside powers (Iran) is certainly legitimate but what happened these last few days is not about “us” or our politics. Israel is not an orphaned child; it is a wealthy nuclear and military power. Israelis need to find a lasting solution that is something other than genocide.
O, but it is tied to the US. The US Jewish population and many evangelicals in the US support Israel, Israel provides a strategic military space for the US, and the US has nearly always pledged to support Israel in return for Israel doing what the US wants.
My point is that the US has only minimal influence over the complex conflicts and events in Israel/Palestine, not that there aren't domestic constituencies that push us to "intervene". These interventions often have not been helpful. Seventy-five years after Israel's establishment the conflict festers and erupts. Moreover, I'm not sure that the historical record would support your assertion that Israel does what the US wants. Nor should it do so; Israel is an independent country that must act on its own perceptions of its interests and the people living within it. The conflict is primarily their problem not ours and we are not well equipped to solve it---that's my main assertion.
Ok, but the US is involved, in my opinion.
see also Thomas Friedman in today's NYT: https://www.nytimes.com/2023/10/19/opinion/biden-speech-israel-gaza.html.
Thank you.
yes the US is involved and thank you for staying with me. I also appreciate that many wish to support President Biden but I would like to see less focus on our domestic politics and more on the events on the ground and the realization that this may not be a problem for us to solve. We have, as Pres. Biden has noted, a bad history in trying to impose our will in the region. In a phrase, it's really not about us.
When the Israelis chose expansion over security, 1967, they invited a change in their politics as well as their military.
HCR peddles the absurd propaganda that an "errant terrorist missile" destroyed the hospital in Gaza. With our willful, public blindness, the USA and Israel lose the support of the world outside NATO and the "golden billion" countries.
"Israel bombed, probably with a U.S. made Hellfire missile, the courtyard of the Baptist al-Ahli Arab hospital where thousands had sought refuge. A short video of the immediate aftermath shows several dozens if not hundreds of dead and wounded. Doctors later held a press conference while standing among some of the casualties.
"Like other hospitals al-Ahli Arab had been told by Israel to evacuate but could not do so as there are no other places where the sick and wounded, including many intensive care cases, could be cared for.
"Three days earlier, notes the UN, the same hospital had, like others, already been bombed:
"14 October 2023: In Gaza city city and governorate, Ahli Arab Hospital was hit by Israeli airstrikes, partially damaging two floors and damaging the ultrasound and mammography room. Four people were injured. Sources: Al Jazeera V and Personal Communication
"To then claim, as Biden did, that 'the other team' was responsible for the attack is unfathomable....
"The backlash had solidified entrenched positions in the developing world on the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, officials said. They warned that this could derail future diplomatic efforts on Ukraine.
“'We have definitely lost the battle in the Global South,' said one senior G7 diplomat. 'All the work we have done with the Global South [over Ukraine] has been lost . . . Forget about rules, forget about world order. They won’t ever listen to us again.'"
https://www.moonofalabama.org/2023/10/wests-pro-israel-position-accelerates-its-loss-of-power.html
John, I just read where a huge segment of our population would agree to Trump serving as POTUS from his prison cell, and this after all that has been disclosed about Putin's puppet. This is the thought that came to my mind from what you penned above: "With our willful, public blindness,. . ." Why do MAGA/KKK Republicans support Trump, even if he is serving time in prison? It's because he represents their core racist feelings. It is so intense (their racism) that they would subvert a democratic system in order to install a white Protestant supremacy autocratic system.
" It's because he represents their core racist feelings."
Richard, my own perspective is that Trump has managed to do something that is only rarely done successfully. He has managed to replicate what Jesus did and what Mohammed did.
He has imbued in many people a feeling that he is some kind of divinely supported leader who has special powers and really, really cares about those who choose to "believe in him".
I have met folks before who are fanatically attached to a belief. Those folks are not going to debate, they are not going to think, they are not going to analyze.
They are going to BELIEVE. And, having chosen to BELIEVE they will defend that belief against any logic.
I ran across these people in my first semester at A&M, knocking on my dorm door and asking me "if I was saved".
Trump? He is truly dangerous.
Not just 45, but the extreme conservative faction that has gone autocratic I.E. Project 2025
Mike S,
Ouch. Comparing Trump to Jesus?
Better to say both of them exuded charisma . . . except it would be more accurate to say their messages resonated but for very different reasons.
Trump's messages come from the malignant narcissism astute psychologically trained people have noted.
Jesus' messages came from a heart that forgave his killers and embraced the suffering of others even as he was being executed.
Not the same.
Yes. An odd comparison. But I think Mike is comparing the powers of charisma - the ability to get folks to "believe" vs employing critical thinking skills. The concern is that people "believe" as virtual robots and they can be convinced to love or hate. To help or kill.
Jesus had the perfect message. But all too often, his followers have perverted his teachings and used his name to justify all manner of abuse and violence.
You have heard of "Jews for Jesus". I am in the camp of "Nones for Jesus". But no support for the majority of "Christians" who don't have a clue what "Christ's" message was.
Your posts are a valuable reminder that there are still some Christians worthy of respect. More please :)
I do not believe that Jesus lead by fear, but from a wealth of compassion, the antithesis of 45.
Correct.
The mysticism Jesus employed to garner interest in his message is similar to Trump’s mysticism.
Once some is inspired by mysticism and enters belief space then they are receptive to ANY message.
Mike, not to worry - death is final and, after death, pain free. But, back to the point about Trump. I encourage you to read "A Fever in the Heartland" by Timothy Egan, recounting the rise of the KKK in the Midwest (principally Indiana) in the 1920's. Trump is the "reincarnation) of D.C. Stephenson, the head of the KKK in Indiana and the other states back then. What did Stephenson peddle? Pure KKK" white Protestant supremacy now, white Protestant supremacy forever." I am not a psychiatrist though I do have three advanced degrees. Still, that doesn't qualify me to opine professionally on the matter, but I suspect that, down deep, those evangelicals who support Trump don't truly buy the Christian message, particularly the lessons in Matthew 25: 34-46. But, perhaps they're unfamiliar with 25: 45-46 - "Then he will answer them, 'Truly I say to you, as you did it not to the least of these, you did it not to me.' And they will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life." If i were a believer, this message would scare the hell out of me.
I will do and thank you.
I think you would find their own evangelical twist on these words.
Yes, they will and do, but there is no equivocation in Jesus' words, no qualifications on race, color, creed, national origin or anything else. It's absolute. And so is his promise of eternal damnation. So, my inference. They don't buy it. What are they in reality? Fair weather Christians?