My father is one of them. He grew up in Nazi Germany and never really change from his early childhood social conditioning. Most of the warehouse workers and truck drivers I meet on the job are also in the Trumpster Republican conservative camp. It’s an illness of lack of vision, an illness of inability to see beneath the surface.
Our job is learn how we can show them how to regain that vision, help them understand that supporting programs that help EVERYONE is the best way to help themselves, and to recognize that a world without daily threats and insults is a better world for all of us.
Finding a way to overcome the hatred, lies, and fear without insulting people like your father is the only way we can reunite America again.
Not everyone wants to "see". It's like the posts from yesterday about abused spouses & kids will choose to return to their abuser because it's what they know. What wasn't addressed is how to break that cycle.
We need to remember that after the civil war racism didn't disappear. It went underground & spread like a weed.
So we do need government programs that address the fears of trump voters as well as a truth and reconciliation program like de-Nazification and what continues in Rwanda. As others point out, education.
There is a whole body of academic research and on the ground organizations that work to break the cycle of domestic violence, including separate groups for victims and perpetrators (though sometimes both members of a couple are instigating, reacting, and escalating). The groups combine dydactic instruction with experience sharing among peers. Food for thought.
Hi Marcy, I just posted an article about the distinction between Red and Blue America. Spent the last several hours in it. It might answer your question. If not, get back to me here, if you can even find this location again. otherwise email RolandRLJ at Google Mail.
Hmm... I was thinking about this when I woke up today—even though the vote was pretty much split down the middle as far as Biden vs Trump, all those votes are about 145 million or so. But there are 331 million people in the states. Yes, the division is real, but that 70 million for trump is less than a quarter of the population. What would happen if more people voted, if it was easier to vote, etc.?
I won’t go into all the many issues around voting, but maybe it’s not true that half the country supports Trump. Unless we just assume the percentage reflected in the vote accurately reflects the population at large... Should we make that assumption?
I feel you on your dad. Mine has vowed to never ever EVER step foot in Chicago. You know what? Because Obama is from there!
Ha. Talk about cutting off your misinformed nose to spite your face. That fabulous city is one of the first trips in my list post-pandemic!
Take solace in the fact that 74 million of the 331 million are between the ages of 0 - 17 and ineligible to vote. And those 74 million kids? We need to make sure they have the best educations and information possible so they can make informed decisions as they grow and age. They will be a test of our ability to change course for every US American as well as those who have come to our shores for a better life.
Now, the rest of those folks, that last 25%? That's who we need to focus on now. Why don't they vote and what will change their minds about voting?
Oh my: I completely forgot about young people when I was talking about population. I’m just drinking my first cup of coffee over here, so that’s my excuse! :) thank you for moving to adult population!
Yes, why didn’t they vote, etc? Excellent questions.
? I'm not sure what you mean. I looked at stats for the approx number of children 0-17 years if age in 2020 and several sources said 74 million. What am I missing in re 112 million?
Daria, I was trying to calculate what part of the population was left that didn't vote. If we have a population of 331 million, and approx. 145 million voted, and 74 million are 0-17 yrs, that leaves 112 million, doesn't it? Spoiler alert: I'm not great with math.
Great point about the proportion of T voters to the population, Lori Anne. As 331 million is the total population, not all of them are old enough to vote. :) US population over 18 is 209 million. Alas, that means the proportion of t voters to the voting population is 33%. Ugh!!!
Having been around for a while, I've noticed something that recurs after elections. Just as some of us are reacting to our disappointment that there wasn't the hoped for sweep, the expected blue wave, and that reaction is sometimes a little extreme because we expected something stronger, so the people who voted for Trump are experiencing a similar reaction. We are already calming down and exploring ways to move forward in a positive way. They will too. Remember before the elections when all these militias were saying they were going to occupy the streets? And when the time came, the streets were mostly empty? There were going to be armed resistors at every polling station and yet most polling stations counted their ballots in peace? Yes there were a few, but I think the events in Kenosha made it real and things stopped being pretend for a lot of the people thinking in terms of violence. And the arrests of several groups by the FBI also made the consequences real for those people. I think that kind of reality testing will sink in to more Trump supporters as they get back to living their ordinary lives. Some of them will persist, but they will tend to draw back from the more extremes of it. And some, as we have seen, will withdraw from it because the reality of what Trump has done to our country will become more apparent to them, in the absence of media hysteria. We are all exhausted emotionally. We have an opportunity to create a calm in which we can begin to work in our small ways to rebuild a world in which normal human interaction can take place. The beginning of a hard road back, but I do believe that we can do it. IF we don't allow ourselves to be caught up again in the negativity that has been nurtured by those who have not yet been able to step away from it (or, in some cases, are addicted to it). We can help each other recover our equanimity, and move on.
Yes, that is definitely something that is both abhorrent and must be addressed. I implore HCR to give us some guidance here. I personally will be doing what I can to influence GA voters to elect Ossoff and Warnock. We must get the stranglehold away from McTurtleneck. He’s right...he has been the Grim Reaper and a thorn in our sides for way too long. We have to turn the Senate. In the meantime, something else we haven’t discussed is how 12 GOP women were elected to Congress! Were we asleep?
The lout on the golf course is supported by approximately half of this country. None of that half is likely to appear here in HCR’s Comments.
My father is one of them. He grew up in Nazi Germany and never really change from his early childhood social conditioning. Most of the warehouse workers and truck drivers I meet on the job are also in the Trumpster Republican conservative camp. It’s an illness of lack of vision, an illness of inability to see beneath the surface.
Our job is learn how we can show them how to regain that vision, help them understand that supporting programs that help EVERYONE is the best way to help themselves, and to recognize that a world without daily threats and insults is a better world for all of us.
Finding a way to overcome the hatred, lies, and fear without insulting people like your father is the only way we can reunite America again.
Good luck with your farher.
We can start by getting the politics out of education and massively improve the school system so that everybody can have a chance in life.
Not everyone wants to "see". It's like the posts from yesterday about abused spouses & kids will choose to return to their abuser because it's what they know. What wasn't addressed is how to break that cycle.
We need to remember that after the civil war racism didn't disappear. It went underground & spread like a weed.
So we do need government programs that address the fears of trump voters as well as a truth and reconciliation program like de-Nazification and what continues in Rwanda. As others point out, education.
There is a whole body of academic research and on the ground organizations that work to break the cycle of domestic violence, including separate groups for victims and perpetrators (though sometimes both members of a couple are instigating, reacting, and escalating). The groups combine dydactic instruction with experience sharing among peers. Food for thought.
Perhaps we can start by hiring reprogrammers who work with people who were once in cults. After all, Trumpism is a cult as is white supremacy.
Thanks, I need it. 62 years and counting.
Roland, curious, if you care to elaborate...what do you mean by early childhood social conditioning?
Hi Marcy, I just posted an article about the distinction between Red and Blue America. Spent the last several hours in it. It might answer your question. If not, get back to me here, if you can even find this location again. otherwise email RolandRLJ at Google Mail.
Post the link here.
Yes please post a link to your article here?
Not sure about a link to an article, but Roland has a long post below about Red and Blue America and similarities between Trump and Hitler.
To believe trump has something to offer them beyond stoking their fear.
Hmm... I was thinking about this when I woke up today—even though the vote was pretty much split down the middle as far as Biden vs Trump, all those votes are about 145 million or so. But there are 331 million people in the states. Yes, the division is real, but that 70 million for trump is less than a quarter of the population. What would happen if more people voted, if it was easier to vote, etc.?
I won’t go into all the many issues around voting, but maybe it’s not true that half the country supports Trump. Unless we just assume the percentage reflected in the vote accurately reflects the population at large... Should we make that assumption?
I feel you on your dad. Mine has vowed to never ever EVER step foot in Chicago. You know what? Because Obama is from there!
Ha. Talk about cutting off your misinformed nose to spite your face. That fabulous city is one of the first trips in my list post-pandemic!
— Lori Anne
Take solace in the fact that 74 million of the 331 million are between the ages of 0 - 17 and ineligible to vote. And those 74 million kids? We need to make sure they have the best educations and information possible so they can make informed decisions as they grow and age. They will be a test of our ability to change course for every US American as well as those who have come to our shores for a better life.
Now, the rest of those folks, that last 25%? That's who we need to focus on now. Why don't they vote and what will change their minds about voting?
Oh my: I completely forgot about young people when I was talking about population. I’m just drinking my first cup of coffee over here, so that’s my excuse! :) thank you for moving to adult population!
Yes, why didn’t they vote, etc? Excellent questions.
Oh, I totally understand.the pre-coffee mind. Believe me! 💙
Apprxo 112 million?
? I'm not sure what you mean. I looked at stats for the approx number of children 0-17 years if age in 2020 and several sources said 74 million. What am I missing in re 112 million?
Daria, I was trying to calculate what part of the population was left that didn't vote. If we have a population of 331 million, and approx. 145 million voted, and 74 million are 0-17 yrs, that leaves 112 million, doesn't it? Spoiler alert: I'm not great with math.
Haha, I'm not either!! (Obviously)
Great point about the proportion of T voters to the population, Lori Anne. As 331 million is the total population, not all of them are old enough to vote. :) US population over 18 is 209 million. Alas, that means the proportion of t voters to the voting population is 33%. Ugh!!!
Having been around for a while, I've noticed something that recurs after elections. Just as some of us are reacting to our disappointment that there wasn't the hoped for sweep, the expected blue wave, and that reaction is sometimes a little extreme because we expected something stronger, so the people who voted for Trump are experiencing a similar reaction. We are already calming down and exploring ways to move forward in a positive way. They will too. Remember before the elections when all these militias were saying they were going to occupy the streets? And when the time came, the streets were mostly empty? There were going to be armed resistors at every polling station and yet most polling stations counted their ballots in peace? Yes there were a few, but I think the events in Kenosha made it real and things stopped being pretend for a lot of the people thinking in terms of violence. And the arrests of several groups by the FBI also made the consequences real for those people. I think that kind of reality testing will sink in to more Trump supporters as they get back to living their ordinary lives. Some of them will persist, but they will tend to draw back from the more extremes of it. And some, as we have seen, will withdraw from it because the reality of what Trump has done to our country will become more apparent to them, in the absence of media hysteria. We are all exhausted emotionally. We have an opportunity to create a calm in which we can begin to work in our small ways to rebuild a world in which normal human interaction can take place. The beginning of a hard road back, but I do believe that we can do it. IF we don't allow ourselves to be caught up again in the negativity that has been nurtured by those who have not yet been able to step away from it (or, in some cases, are addicted to it). We can help each other recover our equanimity, and move on.
Yes, that is definitely something that is both abhorrent and must be addressed. I implore HCR to give us some guidance here. I personally will be doing what I can to influence GA voters to elect Ossoff and Warnock. We must get the stranglehold away from McTurtleneck. He’s right...he has been the Grim Reaper and a thorn in our sides for way too long. We have to turn the Senate. In the meantime, something else we haven’t discussed is how 12 GOP women were elected to Congress! Were we asleep?