And you are blind to believe in false equivalencies or that ANY Arab or Muslim nation is dedicated to democratic principles and peaceful coexistence with Israel. Netanyahu may be a blight on Israeli politics, but so were Nixon, Reagan, Bush 1, Bush 2, and - heaven help us - Trump (1) on our politics. The US has produced world-class war c…
And you are blind to believe in false equivalencies or that ANY Arab or Muslim nation is dedicated to democratic principles and peaceful coexistence with Israel. Netanyahu may be a blight on Israeli politics, but so were Nixon, Reagan, Bush 1, Bush 2, and - heaven help us - Trump (1) on our politics. The US has produced world-class war criminals who get away without a war crimes tribunal or even an impeachment conviction. It has also helped the civilized world rid itself of fascists on a massive scale. As I said, the world will always be threatened by bad actors. To aid and abet fascism and terrorism is the wrong way to go. Like it or not, Israel is the only democracy in the Middle East. Imperfect, just like us. Powerful and productive, just like us. Threatened, just like us. Open your eyes.
1) Name the false equivalency I believe in. Be careful.
2) If you believe either the United States or Israel is dedicated to democratic principles at present, you’re as clueless as George Bush rambling about the Axis of Evil.
3) It is readily apparent that you are a tribal sycophant for the Democratic Party, unless of course, you merely forgot to include Obama or Biden on your war criminal list.
4) As a veteran, I hope you weren’t suggesting my critique of American Empire and Israeli Fascism was aiding or abetting either fascism or terrorism. If so, see my reference to Bush up in 2) above.
5) Thanks for closing with an absurd laugh line. Nothing like an apologist defining the oppressor as the ‘threatened’ entity to give me a loller moment.
One final piece of advice; start digging into alternative, independent media and stop reading propagandists like Malcolm Nance. You’ll be better for it, and won’t come across as an empire simp. My eyes are wide open. You are looking through a camera lens with a propaganda filter, and it tints everything you see. Examples abound:
1. Israel is as bad as Hamas is good, or they are equally bad. Both false.
2. If you had read my comments carefully, you would not conclude that I think the US upholds democracy at all times and in all cases.
3. I left out the Democratic war criminal Lyndon Johnson, but my point was made correctly.
4. As a veteran, you surely must know the difference between Israeli democracy and Jihadist anti-Semitic terror.
5. At no time did I excuse Israel or the US for their foreign policy blunders.
Malcolm Nance is proof positive that terrorists and fascists must be resisted, just like Nazis, whether in Third Reich Germany, Russia, or in the Trump Administration. If you think that there is any viable opposition to the Republican Party other than the Democratic Party (with all its faults), then you are deluded. That's why Putin loves the Republican Party so much; he can control our oligarchs just as easily as he can control his own oligarchs and destroy democracy in the process. No point in belaboring this discussion. We both made our positions clear for all to see.
1) Never said either; you need to brush up on your logical fallacy assessment.
2) Again, never said you did. Stop digging.
3) Lots of people you left out; the ones you named were all GOP. My tribal critique stands.
4) As a veteran, I can differentiate between anti-Semitic and anti-Zionist terror; and between Jihadist terror and resistance to oppression, ethnic cleansing, and genocide; and Israeli democracy and Israeli fascistic Zionism. You cannot, and that’s a shame.
5) BS. Your whole commentary here boils down to Israel good/Hamas bad, analogous to the similar U.S.-Ukraine good/Russia bad Manichaean mindset that is poisoning any attempts to bring peace to either conflict.
Malcolm Nance is proof positive only that pundit money can be made spreading security state propaganda and lies, see Russiagate. It’s laughable that you think Putin controls our oligarchs, and also laughable that you think the Democratic Party is viable opposition to the GOP any more than the GOP is to the Dems. Elections are political theater that perpetuate a democratic illusion that we have choices other than, as Carlin put it, Pepsi vs. Coke. The MIC and monied interests run this country. Anyone who thinks otherwise is deluded. Belabor that.
I suggest you strap on your weapons and join the terrorist group of you choice and fight for your principles. According to you, no one will stop you. We're all too busy watching theater and eating popcorn. But watch your back. You never know when Malcolm Nance will be standing behind you. By the way, where were you on January 6, 2021? If you had been called to defend the Capitol that day, would you have fought with or against the police officers? And exactly what is it that you get from reading Heather's letters? Who is your favorite Spreme Court justice? What is your view on tax policy? the southern border? book burning? school vouchers? abortion? Steve Bannon? And while you're at it, was Hitler a good guy or a bad guy? Should he have been assassinated or should he have been rewarded for the efficiency of his death machine? Who is the greatest person living today? and why?
Lol! I suggest, again, that you stop digging, as you’re making a fool of yourself, and it’s making you mad/embarrassed that you’re being exposed as such. But then, your particular blend of George Bush/Malcolm Nance national security blather is popcorn-eating worthy, so I will oblige your attempt at deflection via gotcha question in the hope that you will respond, after proving your stated desire to cease ‘the belaboring’ was yet another falsehood. I do enjoy my popcorn.
Let’s begin. I was watching the television on 1/6, and thinking to myself, those participants in the mayhem had the right idea, they just picked the wrong target. Instead of attacking the Capitol, they should have veered towards K Street, and smashed into the offices of every corporate lobbyist they came across. This is what the right-wingers, at least those in the ‘throw all the bums out’ crowd, have yet to grasp; the rot is systemic, not personality based, nor ideological; if you expelled every member of Congress and replaced them by popular vote via election, within six weeks they would be bought and paid for just like their predecessors.
Your ‘if you had been’ question is a nonsensical, but typical (for you) attempt at gotcha via hypothetical. Sorry, ‘called’ by who? Pelosi? Why would she call me instead of the National Guard? The FBI? You?… Just stop.
I read Heather’s Letters for the same reason I read most anything; to learn something I didn’t know/wasn’t aware of before. Sometimes that happens, sometimes it doesn’t. I also read them to read the comments; it gives me a good sense of where Team Blue sits at any given moment, without having to gag by wasting time with government propaganda outlets like NYT/WaPo/MSNBC, etc.
My favorite SCOTUS justice is Jackson. My rankings of judges, just like politicians, are based on how much I perceive their decisions/legislative records are influenced by monied interests.
Tax policy? Progressive; think we should return to pre-Reagan brackets. Also in favor of a wealth tax. Border? Cut the military budget and fund a humane policy that provides for maximum incorporation of those seeking asylum from persecution (especially since our mendacious foreign policy is a root cause of said persecution and chaos).
Book burning? Just religious texts… hope you thought that was a funny answer to a funny question. School vouchers? I’m a socialist, for Chrissakes. I’d eliminate private schools were it up to me, just like in Norway/Finland (I forget which). Another reason to slash the Defense budget. Abortion? Don’t want one, don’t get one; otherwise stay the hell away from anyone other than a woman/her physician making that choice.
Steve Bannon? A bad guy, like Hitler… hey two answers in one! Neither; like Osama, Hitler should have been put on trial. I’m not like, say, Obama, in favor of assassination.
There is no one greatest person living today. The people I respect most today are those speaking truth to power, both those in alternative media, and those activists in the grassroots who protest the duplicitous aspects of American Empire. Always enjoy having an empire simp, whether it’s Bill Maher or Biden/Blinken, exposed.
OK. Thank you for the clarification. To sum up, you are, as stated, a progressive and a socialist (although the latter term requires careful definition). I do not know if you are a libertarian leftist or an anarchist leftist, but if you are, that would be where we differ. It looks like you are a Green Party or Young Turks type of progressive (not an accusation, just a possibility). Early in this discussion, I suggested that you are susceptible to false equivalencies. The best example of that would be the equivalence of the Democratic and Republican parties. While that is true in many ways, it is the difference between them that counts (why else would you favor Justice Jackson?). To believe that the Democratic Party is just as bad as the Republican Party is a fatal error. Heather's substack offers countless historical and contempory illustrations of that fact. It is interesting that you would have preferred a violent attack of lobbyist offices instead of the Capitol on J6. Perhaps you are true revolutionary. Revolution is a risky business. It rarely accomplishes what it sets out to do. I'll stick to the effort to overturn Citizens United. Then we can begin.
Further clarification. I would describe myself as a Democratic Socialist, as opposed to a Social Democrat, with a strong lean towards socialism. I would prefer nationalization of the banking, transportation, and energy sectors for example. I am neither a libertarian nor an anarchist socialist. I am not political Party guy, of any sort. I vote based on issues, and there are certain lines I will not cross when marking a ballot. I despise the Young Turks, as they have compromised their principled adversarial role following Trump’s election, as have others, including Bernie Sanders, under the rubric of saving democracy.
I would suggest you are not well informed enough to claim false equivalency when confronted by the both parties are the same argument. On a certain level, mostly social issues, you are indeed correct. But on the most important level, that being the control of both parties by monied interests, you aren’t. And that dwarfs all other issues combined, for it prevents meaningful change legislation from providing solutions to our many problems. Again, I favor Justice Jackson because she is the least susceptible to corporate influence; her alignment with me on certain social issues is secondary.
In some ways, I believe the Democratic Party is worse than the GOP, for the GOP never billed itself as anything other than the champions of the wealthy, even after it used the Southern Strategy to peel the white working class away from the Democrats, post-Brown decision. The Dems, on the other hand, championed respect for workers, then betrayed their trust by chasing corporate cash, lead by Clinton and the DLC from the 90s on. And it still betrays workers in subservience to capital to this day; see any number of legislative crumbs it throws to the working class when in power, only to fill the coffers of corporations at the same time, and exacerbating wealth inequality all the while; the ACA being a prime example.
I’ll accept the revolutionary moniker. I think unless we have one we are toast. I would prefer a nonviolent, political one, but I think one is coming, and I think the longer the Dems try to govern more like Clinton/Obama in their rhetoric/legislation than FDR, the more juice it gives to the radical right. I don’t equate property violence with the personal variety.
You want overturn Citizens United? Legislation will not do it. This is the only way - MoveToAmend.org
Nationalization of banking, transportation, and energy is not going to happen, not least because FDR himself couldn't do that under today's conditions. Until Citizens United is repealed by constitutional amendment (it will take years), we won't be able even to tax those industries and wealthy owners properly. So that kind of socialism (tantamount to government ownership of the means of production) simply won't fly; better to work the tax code as best we can and make serious progress with SCOTUS. Above all, there are two over-riding obstacles to progress. First, the monied interests, primarily through their wholely owned subsidiary the Republican Party, are evil. They will not be moved or enlightened; they are true fascists. Second, the electorate is too stupid to understand that evil. Roughly half of the electorate will never come close to embracing Democratic Socialism (even without the nationalization you prefer); they will continue to vote MAGA or other equivalent without fail. The Reagan revolution is complete and Christian white supremacists are ascending (sorry for the pun). I'll look for you on the ramparts, comrade.
Never said any of the things I support would happen, rather that they should.
I still think you underestimate the degree to which the Democratic Party establishment has been complicit in our neoliberal, impending authoritarian nightmare. I also think you underestimate the degree to which a strong governing coalition could be built if the Democratic Party renounced its corporate fealty, and built quickly. I have less of a feeling the ‘other half of the electorate’ is as monolithic as you seem to. It follows that the constitutional amendment could follow quickly as well (the 18yo vote amendment only took six months from introduction in Congress to ratification). But I have only slightly more confidence that the Democrats could/will do that than you do in the implementation of my socialist ‘utopia’.
That said, I have enjoyed our discussion. I have two book recommendations for you; both of which blew me away with how much I learned about how things really are, as opposed to government narrative. The first is Democracy Inc, by Sheldon Wolin. It focuses on the domestic front, and explains the concept of inverted totalitarianism, and how corporations came to control our democracy. The second is The Devil’s Chessboard, by David Talbot. It is mainly about the creation and rise of the CIA, and the foreign policy repercussions that came with it. In both cases, we as a country have yet to deal with either problem, because, as you point out, most of our population is unaware of either issue. Both were fantastic reads, full of light bulb and holy crap moments.
Will be an interesting couple of years coming up. We’ll see. Peace, t
And you are blind to believe in false equivalencies or that ANY Arab or Muslim nation is dedicated to democratic principles and peaceful coexistence with Israel. Netanyahu may be a blight on Israeli politics, but so were Nixon, Reagan, Bush 1, Bush 2, and - heaven help us - Trump (1) on our politics. The US has produced world-class war criminals who get away without a war crimes tribunal or even an impeachment conviction. It has also helped the civilized world rid itself of fascists on a massive scale. As I said, the world will always be threatened by bad actors. To aid and abet fascism and terrorism is the wrong way to go. Like it or not, Israel is the only democracy in the Middle East. Imperfect, just like us. Powerful and productive, just like us. Threatened, just like us. Open your eyes.
1) Name the false equivalency I believe in. Be careful.
2) If you believe either the United States or Israel is dedicated to democratic principles at present, you’re as clueless as George Bush rambling about the Axis of Evil.
3) It is readily apparent that you are a tribal sycophant for the Democratic Party, unless of course, you merely forgot to include Obama or Biden on your war criminal list.
4) As a veteran, I hope you weren’t suggesting my critique of American Empire and Israeli Fascism was aiding or abetting either fascism or terrorism. If so, see my reference to Bush up in 2) above.
5) Thanks for closing with an absurd laugh line. Nothing like an apologist defining the oppressor as the ‘threatened’ entity to give me a loller moment.
One final piece of advice; start digging into alternative, independent media and stop reading propagandists like Malcolm Nance. You’ll be better for it, and won’t come across as an empire simp. My eyes are wide open. You are looking through a camera lens with a propaganda filter, and it tints everything you see. Examples abound:
Gaza - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yxensYM2R40
Gaza - https://peoplesdispatch.org/2023/11/04/craig-mokhiber-on-uns-failures-in-palestine-and-why-he-quit/
Gaza - https://scheerpost.com/2023/11/03/palestines-obituary/
Gaza - https://www.caitlinjohnst.one/p/we-dont-think-hard-enough-about-what
Gaza - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nCn4XGZeFsk&t=1743s
Gaza - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BDfi6-l1Aec
1. Israel is as bad as Hamas is good, or they are equally bad. Both false.
2. If you had read my comments carefully, you would not conclude that I think the US upholds democracy at all times and in all cases.
3. I left out the Democratic war criminal Lyndon Johnson, but my point was made correctly.
4. As a veteran, you surely must know the difference between Israeli democracy and Jihadist anti-Semitic terror.
5. At no time did I excuse Israel or the US for their foreign policy blunders.
Malcolm Nance is proof positive that terrorists and fascists must be resisted, just like Nazis, whether in Third Reich Germany, Russia, or in the Trump Administration. If you think that there is any viable opposition to the Republican Party other than the Democratic Party (with all its faults), then you are deluded. That's why Putin loves the Republican Party so much; he can control our oligarchs just as easily as he can control his own oligarchs and destroy democracy in the process. No point in belaboring this discussion. We both made our positions clear for all to see.
1) Never said either; you need to brush up on your logical fallacy assessment.
2) Again, never said you did. Stop digging.
3) Lots of people you left out; the ones you named were all GOP. My tribal critique stands.
4) As a veteran, I can differentiate between anti-Semitic and anti-Zionist terror; and between Jihadist terror and resistance to oppression, ethnic cleansing, and genocide; and Israeli democracy and Israeli fascistic Zionism. You cannot, and that’s a shame.
5) BS. Your whole commentary here boils down to Israel good/Hamas bad, analogous to the similar U.S.-Ukraine good/Russia bad Manichaean mindset that is poisoning any attempts to bring peace to either conflict.
Malcolm Nance is proof positive only that pundit money can be made spreading security state propaganda and lies, see Russiagate. It’s laughable that you think Putin controls our oligarchs, and also laughable that you think the Democratic Party is viable opposition to the GOP any more than the GOP is to the Dems. Elections are political theater that perpetuate a democratic illusion that we have choices other than, as Carlin put it, Pepsi vs. Coke. The MIC and monied interests run this country. Anyone who thinks otherwise is deluded. Belabor that.
https://scheerpost.com/2023/11/06/were-a-war-machine-as-a-nation-the-truth-about-american-politics/
I suggest you strap on your weapons and join the terrorist group of you choice and fight for your principles. According to you, no one will stop you. We're all too busy watching theater and eating popcorn. But watch your back. You never know when Malcolm Nance will be standing behind you. By the way, where were you on January 6, 2021? If you had been called to defend the Capitol that day, would you have fought with or against the police officers? And exactly what is it that you get from reading Heather's letters? Who is your favorite Spreme Court justice? What is your view on tax policy? the southern border? book burning? school vouchers? abortion? Steve Bannon? And while you're at it, was Hitler a good guy or a bad guy? Should he have been assassinated or should he have been rewarded for the efficiency of his death machine? Who is the greatest person living today? and why?
Lol! I suggest, again, that you stop digging, as you’re making a fool of yourself, and it’s making you mad/embarrassed that you’re being exposed as such. But then, your particular blend of George Bush/Malcolm Nance national security blather is popcorn-eating worthy, so I will oblige your attempt at deflection via gotcha question in the hope that you will respond, after proving your stated desire to cease ‘the belaboring’ was yet another falsehood. I do enjoy my popcorn.
Let’s begin. I was watching the television on 1/6, and thinking to myself, those participants in the mayhem had the right idea, they just picked the wrong target. Instead of attacking the Capitol, they should have veered towards K Street, and smashed into the offices of every corporate lobbyist they came across. This is what the right-wingers, at least those in the ‘throw all the bums out’ crowd, have yet to grasp; the rot is systemic, not personality based, nor ideological; if you expelled every member of Congress and replaced them by popular vote via election, within six weeks they would be bought and paid for just like their predecessors.
Your ‘if you had been’ question is a nonsensical, but typical (for you) attempt at gotcha via hypothetical. Sorry, ‘called’ by who? Pelosi? Why would she call me instead of the National Guard? The FBI? You?… Just stop.
I read Heather’s Letters for the same reason I read most anything; to learn something I didn’t know/wasn’t aware of before. Sometimes that happens, sometimes it doesn’t. I also read them to read the comments; it gives me a good sense of where Team Blue sits at any given moment, without having to gag by wasting time with government propaganda outlets like NYT/WaPo/MSNBC, etc.
My favorite SCOTUS justice is Jackson. My rankings of judges, just like politicians, are based on how much I perceive their decisions/legislative records are influenced by monied interests.
Tax policy? Progressive; think we should return to pre-Reagan brackets. Also in favor of a wealth tax. Border? Cut the military budget and fund a humane policy that provides for maximum incorporation of those seeking asylum from persecution (especially since our mendacious foreign policy is a root cause of said persecution and chaos).
Book burning? Just religious texts… hope you thought that was a funny answer to a funny question. School vouchers? I’m a socialist, for Chrissakes. I’d eliminate private schools were it up to me, just like in Norway/Finland (I forget which). Another reason to slash the Defense budget. Abortion? Don’t want one, don’t get one; otherwise stay the hell away from anyone other than a woman/her physician making that choice.
Steve Bannon? A bad guy, like Hitler… hey two answers in one! Neither; like Osama, Hitler should have been put on trial. I’m not like, say, Obama, in favor of assassination.
There is no one greatest person living today. The people I respect most today are those speaking truth to power, both those in alternative media, and those activists in the grassroots who protest the duplicitous aspects of American Empire. Always enjoy having an empire simp, whether it’s Bill Maher or Biden/Blinken, exposed.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SvIwub-o_OY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iOjoGWbuQps&list=PL1VUdX8wJjBwCcti8ZkAVdsVy_tp4ckU2
OK. Thank you for the clarification. To sum up, you are, as stated, a progressive and a socialist (although the latter term requires careful definition). I do not know if you are a libertarian leftist or an anarchist leftist, but if you are, that would be where we differ. It looks like you are a Green Party or Young Turks type of progressive (not an accusation, just a possibility). Early in this discussion, I suggested that you are susceptible to false equivalencies. The best example of that would be the equivalence of the Democratic and Republican parties. While that is true in many ways, it is the difference between them that counts (why else would you favor Justice Jackson?). To believe that the Democratic Party is just as bad as the Republican Party is a fatal error. Heather's substack offers countless historical and contempory illustrations of that fact. It is interesting that you would have preferred a violent attack of lobbyist offices instead of the Capitol on J6. Perhaps you are true revolutionary. Revolution is a risky business. It rarely accomplishes what it sets out to do. I'll stick to the effort to overturn Citizens United. Then we can begin.
Further clarification. I would describe myself as a Democratic Socialist, as opposed to a Social Democrat, with a strong lean towards socialism. I would prefer nationalization of the banking, transportation, and energy sectors for example. I am neither a libertarian nor an anarchist socialist. I am not political Party guy, of any sort. I vote based on issues, and there are certain lines I will not cross when marking a ballot. I despise the Young Turks, as they have compromised their principled adversarial role following Trump’s election, as have others, including Bernie Sanders, under the rubric of saving democracy.
I would suggest you are not well informed enough to claim false equivalency when confronted by the both parties are the same argument. On a certain level, mostly social issues, you are indeed correct. But on the most important level, that being the control of both parties by monied interests, you aren’t. And that dwarfs all other issues combined, for it prevents meaningful change legislation from providing solutions to our many problems. Again, I favor Justice Jackson because she is the least susceptible to corporate influence; her alignment with me on certain social issues is secondary.
In some ways, I believe the Democratic Party is worse than the GOP, for the GOP never billed itself as anything other than the champions of the wealthy, even after it used the Southern Strategy to peel the white working class away from the Democrats, post-Brown decision. The Dems, on the other hand, championed respect for workers, then betrayed their trust by chasing corporate cash, lead by Clinton and the DLC from the 90s on. And it still betrays workers in subservience to capital to this day; see any number of legislative crumbs it throws to the working class when in power, only to fill the coffers of corporations at the same time, and exacerbating wealth inequality all the while; the ACA being a prime example.
I’ll accept the revolutionary moniker. I think unless we have one we are toast. I would prefer a nonviolent, political one, but I think one is coming, and I think the longer the Dems try to govern more like Clinton/Obama in their rhetoric/legislation than FDR, the more juice it gives to the radical right. I don’t equate property violence with the personal variety.
You want overturn Citizens United? Legislation will not do it. This is the only way - MoveToAmend.org
Nationalization of banking, transportation, and energy is not going to happen, not least because FDR himself couldn't do that under today's conditions. Until Citizens United is repealed by constitutional amendment (it will take years), we won't be able even to tax those industries and wealthy owners properly. So that kind of socialism (tantamount to government ownership of the means of production) simply won't fly; better to work the tax code as best we can and make serious progress with SCOTUS. Above all, there are two over-riding obstacles to progress. First, the monied interests, primarily through their wholely owned subsidiary the Republican Party, are evil. They will not be moved or enlightened; they are true fascists. Second, the electorate is too stupid to understand that evil. Roughly half of the electorate will never come close to embracing Democratic Socialism (even without the nationalization you prefer); they will continue to vote MAGA or other equivalent without fail. The Reagan revolution is complete and Christian white supremacists are ascending (sorry for the pun). I'll look for you on the ramparts, comrade.
Never said any of the things I support would happen, rather that they should.
I still think you underestimate the degree to which the Democratic Party establishment has been complicit in our neoliberal, impending authoritarian nightmare. I also think you underestimate the degree to which a strong governing coalition could be built if the Democratic Party renounced its corporate fealty, and built quickly. I have less of a feeling the ‘other half of the electorate’ is as monolithic as you seem to. It follows that the constitutional amendment could follow quickly as well (the 18yo vote amendment only took six months from introduction in Congress to ratification). But I have only slightly more confidence that the Democrats could/will do that than you do in the implementation of my socialist ‘utopia’.
That said, I have enjoyed our discussion. I have two book recommendations for you; both of which blew me away with how much I learned about how things really are, as opposed to government narrative. The first is Democracy Inc, by Sheldon Wolin. It focuses on the domestic front, and explains the concept of inverted totalitarianism, and how corporations came to control our democracy. The second is The Devil’s Chessboard, by David Talbot. It is mainly about the creation and rise of the CIA, and the foreign policy repercussions that came with it. In both cases, we as a country have yet to deal with either problem, because, as you point out, most of our population is unaware of either issue. Both were fantastic reads, full of light bulb and holy crap moments.
Will be an interesting couple of years coming up. We’ll see. Peace, t
Thanks. I'll look into those books. Be well.