I was only 4, but I will never forget this being on the television for what seemed all day and all night. It is probably the only thing I really remember from age 4, but it truly affected me and it still does. We have to take seriously the calls for violence against judges, politicians, poll workers and others.
I live in a small town, in a liberal bubble within the liberal bubble of California. The other day I saw an 8.5x11” paper posted on a wall of a restaurant in our tiny liberal down town. It was a Wanted:Dead or Alive poster for our district’s Democrat representative Jared Huffman, calling him a Palestinian child and baby killer for voting to continue to give money to Israel. I can guess that it wasnt the obnoxious diesel truck redneck magapublicans who posted it. They wouldnt have enough gray matter to put this together. I took it down. I found it a very dangerous thing to be promoting. It is troublesome to me that today’s liberal youth (I am 55, I dont feel all that old yet) are so absolutely ignorant that they are falling for the propaganda that the magapublicans hope they fall for, that they have zero historical knowledge or lack such critical thinking skills that they cannot for a moment ask themselves, “hmmmm, am I over-simplifying a situation I really know nothing about, and am going to vote for a third party candidate and that will show Biden and the Democrats that they better listen to me, a smartphone zombie”, and just like that, poof- there goes the great American experiment.
Tina, Commenting on “liberal youth,” while we must admonish both the violent rhetoric you referenced and also a proclivity to support third party candidates, who, invariably, will contribute to election results that likely produce rule by a plurality rather than a majority, contrary to your claim of unmitigated ignorance or an inability to think critically, I write to offer an alternate perspective. Though obviously not always the case, I have found, relative to the Hamas/Israeli War, that young, particularly college-educated, youth, increasingly are accepting the view that the only way Hamas ultimately will be weakened and made an irrelevant political force is if Palestinians have a path to freedom and can see that an ethical resistance, not what happened on October 7th, but an ethical fight for its rights, is working.
Thank you Barbara Jo. It is all too easy to focus on just about any group or individual. It seems to me that it is a moment for each of us to show some restraint while we seek ways to be helpful or let those beyond our immediate community work for peace where war has all to often been an impediment to civility.
Thank you Jay....I had the same sequence of reaction, but didn't quite know how to manage/describe it. I am grateful for your clarity. And thank you to Tina, Barbara Jo, John and you. Blessings,
Thank you, John, for your reply. I take heart from your words, which I view as mirroring the thoughts of a nearly critical mass, all of whom are determined to ward off the darkness that is threatening virtually every aspect of our civil society.
The impediment to peace is religion. Islam is not a religion of tolerance, even among its own people. The only solution is a two-state one. A Palestinian state can be carved out the same way modern Israel was carved out. It has to be that way to avoid more of this.
Um, hold on a big minute, Mr. Sutherland: Islam ABSOLUTELY IS a religion of tolerance, love, care for those in need, generosity, humility, praise of and guidance from a Higher Power, good will toward ALL people, etc etc etc. Sadly and alarmingly, just like Christianity, it has been twisted and distorted and reinterpreted and manipulated to mean what terrorists (foreign and domestic) have needed it to represent.
Real Muslims are wonderful human beings and, just like real Christians, despise all this murderous, greedy, self-serving behavior the United States, the world, is caught up in.
Please, PLEASE, let’s all stop criticizing, fearing, HATING what we do not understand, what we really know nothing about.
SL Weston, beautifully said. Thank you. I’d encourage Richard Sutherland to read the poetry of the Sufis, beginning with Rumi. Or the memoir by Daisy Khan called Born with Wings. I know many peace loving and kind Muslims. We must open our minds and hearts to all of the people on our planet.
I responded to Richard Sutherland and forgot to say Thank you to you for your heart-felt comment.
And here's where my hope comes from - hatred is a symptom of hurt. Love is and always will be stronger than any hatred that shows up in ourselves and others. If we bring healing love to the hurt, we are holding the stronger energy and "we shall overcome"...by the strength of our healing, loving hearts. Blessings
I respectfully disagree. Muslims even kill their own females if the ladies don't cover their heads. Tolerance? It should be made of sterner stuff. The evil that the Christians inflict up others here in the U.S., for example, racist Christians, is not done in the name of the religion. But, to the contrary, the numerous, numerous Islamic terrorist organizations do what they do in the name of Islam. This is one report: Since the 1979 Islamic Revolution, one of the key priorities of the Iranian regime has been exporting its revolution abroad. Designated a sponsor of terror by the U.S. government in 1984, Iran is considered the “foremost state sponsor of terrorism,” providing “a range of support, including financial, training, and equipment, to [terrorist] groups around the world – particularly Hezbollah,” according to the U.S. State Department.
Kennedy's murder happened 1 year before my birth. Yet today is the FIRST time I learned that his assassination was linked to white supremacy. Our country's teaching of history is severely compromised. I'm disgusted at how much ignorance and bigotry is not only allowed, but actually openly encouraged by certain loud segments of the "humanity for me but not for thee crowd". (And yes, the religious thee is used on purpose.) I routinely find that devoutness is too often correlated to heirarchy and bigotry, the belief that their faith makes them better than others. From there it's a short slide to dehumanizing others.
The Warren report did not determine why Oswald shot JFK; as TIME reported in 1964, “The explanation of Oswald's motive for killing President Kennedy was buried with him.”
Chances are we'll never really ever know what motivated Oswald.
I wouldn’t be born until ’68, and despite being taught history in school, this is the first time I’ve heard of JFK’s assassination being linked to white supremacy, as well. I was taught that his assassination was over Cuba (communism) and that it was LBJ’s support of civil rights that southern democrats became republicans. This article actually made me cry :(
Lately, it seems that Christianity is not a religion of tolerance - if you look at Christian Nationalist propaganda. I am an agnostic but I think people who are intolerant use religion to justify their hate-filled speech and to whip up others for reasons of power, profit or personal dysfunction. But I will admit that there have been so many atrocities committed by “religious” people that I often feel like we would be better off without religion.
I totally feel that religion is the root to all evil. I too consider myself agnostic. I will never understand why people grab onto this historical story of one supreme being. I ask myself what is the payoff for these believers. It must make them feel good. To each his own. Let there be peace, let peace begin with me.
Better off without religion? That would make a great Master's thesis. One could do studies in those countries where religion plays a minor part and compare them with one or more countries where religion plays a significant part. The Founding Fathers were well aware of the religious wars between the Protestants and the Catholics that wracked Europe for almost two centuries. I think that all atheists are also agnostic - we can't know. What's on the other side of the Universe? Empty space? It's beyond our comprehension capacity to know. If there is other life out there somewhere, it may be that none of it has a brain or a capacity to reason or to know or to think. We could be the best there is.
Carolyn, respectfully, it is more than people. Look at the situation here in the U.S. If Trump and the MAGA/KKK take power in next year's election, there will be no reason for Thanksgiving. It's what people think, believe and act on that count. Religion, race and ethnicity as well as one's sex are some of the various components. I have seen one report that 54% of Americans between 16 and 74 read at a 6th grade level or below. I need to look into this further to confirm. If so, that helps to explain the racism, misogyny, xenophobia and homophobia of the MAGA/KKK,
I would say its more about territorial dispossession. Of course, you can read Islam into this quite easily, but the real motivation has been the broad destruction of a one-time Palestinian society, the "Catastrophe", as it is remembered. Has Hamas now just committed political suicide and made things even worse? Sad to say, Israel's military over reaction is just about what Hamas leadership expected. I hear the death toll now has exceeded 14000.
It IS exactly what Hamas expected - invited! The attack on October 7th was a guarantee that there would be a retaliation. What is the end game? What kind of fighter has no goal other than the deaths of all its opponents? No desire for his own state? No desire to protect his own people? Frank, it's more than political suicide. It is literal suicide.
What kind of a brain wants an endless war? What kind of heart invites - literally welcomes - the deaths of thousands of its own people - women, children?
It's almost as if there is a death worm in their brains. And the same worm is living in some of their enemies. When this ends, historians may view this in a light similar to Carthage.
The impediment to a two-state solution is not religion. It is the extremists among those who purport to be religious, and who seem to have the loudest voice.
Put a new southern border for Israel between Gaza and the West Bank. This unifies the two areas. The Negev region becomes Palestine. This provides space for the large population of Gaza to move into. The Negev does not currently contain a large population of Jewish People. There are resources that can help contribute to a viable economy. This requires an outside authority to force Israel to accept. As it did to create Israel. The Israeli leadership has never wanted to accommodate the Palestinians. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Israel#/media/File:Israel_population_density_2018.png
It is long past time to "fix" this. No agreement will give either side everything it wants. That's what compromise is all about, something the MAGA/KKK refuse to do. In fact, they want a white Protestant autocracy and to get it they've got to cheat.
My husband taught me that. Although both of us were “lapsed” (doing church music for years and learning history can be a Wizard of Oz experience). During our ten years in France he refused to visit cathedrals after a time, thinking of how many died to build them.
I don’t agree with you. I am not religious, I admit, but I think disparaging another’s religion is an inflammatory practice.
I think a flaw in Israel’s government is the degree to which it mixes its religion and civil government. I also favor a two-state solution, but if the Palestinians take the same approach and develop a quasi-religious government of their own, the two states will forever feel great friction.
Yes, a 2 state solution is the answer. But the majority of Arabs do not believe in that as a solution. They want the Jews and Israel to cease to exist.
I am troubled by the ignorance of some of our older friends about the current war. I have seen far too many memes which reference ancient times as if Israelis were the only people present in the Palestine of that era. They are also woefully ignorant of more current events and the role of others like the Brits during the Palestinian Mandate and seem to think that modern Israel has nothing to do with Gaza and the formation of Hamas. They know nothing or choose to know nothing about what has been going on and is going on in the West Bank. They do acknowledge that Bibi is awful. We have an on going argument with someone who is not Jewish (but said recently she thinks she has some Jewish ancestors) who keeps posting memes and makes no distinction between Hamas and ordinary Palestinians. She has gotten history lessons from both of us about both ancient times and more modern history. She seems to have stopped at least for now. This is so complex with many players then and now, so memes do not help.
"I have found, relative to the Hamas/Israeli War, that young, particularly college-educated, youth, increasingly are accepting the view that the only way Hamas ultimately will be weakened and made an irrelevant political force is if Palestinians have a path to freedom and can see that an ethical resistance, not what happened on October 7th, but an ethical fight for its rights, is working."
Your summary describes my two 25 year old twins perspective, both with a university degree, exactly.
Of course, it is also my perspective and, I think, any reasonable person's perspective. Hamas will not go away as long as Israel continues to terrorize, colonize, steal land, and murder Palestinians with impunity using US weapons and US provided money for bulldozers to push down houses.
Mike, Considering, over the past 6 weeks, that U.S. leadership had persistently underscored its hopes that Israel not repeat our mistakes after 9/11, I had believed enough of those at the top would be receptive to the advantages of viewing the situation our way. Hence, starting by meeting with our district U.S. House Representative and our 2 Senators, we’re trying to create a ripple effect so others, nationwide, would do the same.
Thank you Barbara Jo, cooler heads must prevail, but I certainly understand Tina's fear. I have lived through this media frenzy since the 1967 war. The racism of the highly educated then towards the Palestinians and Arabs was palpable, at least to my ears listening. The Palestinian's situation is much better known now. It is well recognied that they also deserve a homeland, The Likud and Netanyahu have used and strengthened Hamas to stoke up Israeli opposition to the two state solution. We all know what is going on there.The media coverage is so graphic now that the young people are horrified and want it to stop NOW. Unfortuntly, that is not how negocations work. I look foeward to hearing from Biden in a few days, if this truce he brokered holds and the people hear how difficult the process is, from the man who has been on it 24/7 since October 7th. In the meantime, have a great Thanksgiving.
The problem with suppression is that it produces radicals. The problem with radicals is that it produces more radicals on the 'other' side. This leads to constant warfare, degrading the economic, moral, and spiritual welfare of all involved. Real leaders offer a way up and out of this hamster wheel of death. The Biden/Harris/Blinken team is offering just such a way to the Likud coalition and Hamas.
Under their current respective leaderships, Hamas will be extinguished in a few years and Israel, if it survives at all, will be a police state hemorrhaging population to Europe and the US. Only by giving the Palestinians their own state and/or a true voice in the Israeli democracy can Israel survive and the Palestinians thrive.
"Only by giving the Palestinians their own state and/or a true voice in the Israeli democracy can Israel survive and the Palestinians thrive."
Exactly ZERO chance this will happen. Israeli hate toward Palestinians is "deep and wide". Since that hate is fully supported by US money and weapons, Israel has no reason to change.
And the destruction of Gaza by the Israelis, and the killing of innocents in pursuit of the destruction of Hamas, will only give us another generation (or two or three) of Palestinians who will continue to work for the destruction of their oppressor. All of the efforts made by the US to broker peace have come to naught.
A two state solution is inevitable. But it will probably happen after Israelis realize they are completely isolated and as world opinion has turned so away from them that they have no choice. Support for Israel will become fragile in the US. The media shows us the carnage hourly. Public opinion will shift.
The awful irony is that Hamas is making any solution impossible in the short term. What mystifies me is the lack of resolve by Palestinians to overthrow the fascist terrorists who rule them and invite - no, create - the deaths of women and children. It boggles.
For now, this is how it looks. You are right, Mike. From Pew before October 7:
"Only 35% of Israelis think “a way can be found for Israel and an independent Palestinian state to coexist peacefully,” according to the survey, which was conducted in March and April, prior to the latest violence in the West Bank. That represents a decline of 9 percentage points since 2017 and 15 points since 2013. Sep 26, 2023"
There are many reasons for the hate you speak of. There was no “Palestine” until after WW I and then the waffling of the British government did little, if anything, to deal fairly with the people who lived in that part of the defeated Ottoman Empire. Promises were made to both polities though nothing substantial to satisfy any group.
The various Arab groups did what they could and established several states which, unfortunately, excluded the people we now call Palestinians. To this day neighboring nations have not welcomed Palestinians and have maintained camps of refugees rather than welcoming their neighbors to citizenship or encouraging the creation of a state for the Palestinians.
Did you see our president’s hug? It was the beginning of the end for Netanyahu. The Israelis in the streets before the war understood it. They were there for change. It’s those we have seen on TV who are still caught up in hatred and fear.
Sorry, but no. There may be a few who reason as you do, but they are a tiny minority. You can tell that by how few express equal outrage at Hamas and Israel. Much more common are the those who behave as if history began on October 8th. They have no understanding of, nor interest in trying to know what is like to be among a tiny fraction of the world’s people who have been threatened with extermination again and again and again today. I say this as a Jew and a Zionist who reviles the clique that runs the Israeli government, someone who sees little difference between “Jewish” extremist settlers who want to clear Palestinians from the West Bank, and Hamas.
You are right, but the problem with including Hamas in that analysis is that Hamas is a nihilistic inhuman terror organization, and deserves no quarter. It is not fighting for Palestinians, but for Iran. It arose from misinformation and incompetence and inept leadership. In that way, the parallels to the risks we face in the US are scary.
Is it anti-Semitism or more "anti-Netanyahu-ism"? Aren't he and the fundy West Bank Zionists the ones more at fault here? I have to admit to being short on info here.
Living way outside the liberal bubble , I have seen the most vile bumper stickers when President Obama was in office & read almost daily posts by MAGA Congress critters full of lies & propaganda feeding their base. This has been festering for a very long time & bursting into full fury J6. They seem to be infecting their base for another eruption.
I don't trust liars like Trump, but trust is the currency of an open society, and good faith conversion is it's means. Sometimes social movements have to hit us over the head (but civily so) to get out attention, but democracy can't operate without conversation across the divisions of society. I think a free society is wary but honest, and looking to forge trustworthy alliances. See how trust functions in the "GOP" inner circle, they throw anyone and anything under the bus to gain a point. Diversity and even creative controversy rely on a foundational agreement on unalienable rights and duties to each individual and society as a whole. We need better communication between generations and more appreciation for one another's circumstance to forge the solidarity that tyrants fear.
The MAGA/KKK Republicans have abandoned the commitment to the democratic process: one person, one vote, majority rule. They know that they and their values are in the minority, so they will do what they can to seize power, even overturning the U.S. Constitution. Folks, like it or not, we're at war right now. It's time to get involved.
That is why it was so enticing to Steve Bannon when he saw the psychological profiling that Cambridge Analytica developed. He knew the potential it offered - coupled with social media- to fracture trust, clarity, and conversation. He saw that you could tear down a wall of resistance to your worldview by dissolving the mortar of trust, before the bricks even realized how important the mortar was. So here we sit; a wobbly wall, with a manufactured storm of BS pummeling us.
Perhaps every aspect of government need some kind of "explainer" to describe what they do and why, with points off for puffery. Government is so insinuated into the infrastructure that supports our style of life, that I sure I grasp only a fraction of it. It's fine to be a pioneer and "rough it" if you ave the skills, the temperament, necessity, and a tolerance for risk (no real 911 in the wilderness) and I loved being in wilderness, but living in a complex, mass society is a whole new set of challenges, and a lot of practices that are acceptable on a small scale but don't scale up well, like outhouses, let alone fire protection. As the scale of our society grows, maintaining it becomes increasingly complicated. As our aggregated knowledge grows, we struggle to integrate emerging opportunities with impacts. As we build complexity, otherwise minor failures can magnify knock-on impacts. There is a reason why pilots are obligated to pre-check and monitor every part of the plane. It's the only way a human can fly and maintain reasonable safety.
Yes. An “explainer” and/or a “last mile” grade. What I mean is that ideas can be great on paper, or small scale pilot programs may work, but fail when built out as one-size-fits-all. Taking hard looks at how successful policy is actually implemented (or not) will give us much needed information to improve things. Yes it goes slower. But so far “Go-Fast-and-Break-Things sucks. Also, the money it will save us is no small thing. People respond differently to systems and policies that work. Taking hard, open-minded looks at problems as they actually are delivered at the “last mile” - and fix the broken/redundant/maddening elements , is what adults need to do.
I would hate to think that is true. I have been so disgusted by the old critters who slobber over chump, that I have hoped that the young would not be fooled by the con man caricature
So essentially you're saying "don't trust anyone not of your own generation". Good luck with that. About 50% of Boomers go for DT, of those generations who come after, that figure drops to 10% or so. Who is more trustworthy? Didn't Jerry Rubin become some sort of Wall Street investor? I saw him speak in the early 80s and that seemed to be the case. Happy Thanksgiving, TC. I am thankful to you for making me think, (and laugh sometimes too) :)
My point exactly. And if you look at what he did with his later life before being hit by a car crossing Wilshire Boulevard against traffic - big into the scam of mulit-level marketing and other Yuppie sellout crap from the 80s and 90s - he makes my point even better himself.
TC, I am 80 and find the notion of wholesale condemnation of any age groups rather unfortunate. As this is also the date of JFG’s brutal murder and recalling that I was 20 that calling out of young people would feel pretty contrary to all that the Kennedy era was about.
We are, as Joyce Vance, writes “in this together.” We better find a way to avoid such alienation as we muddle through these horrific times as a democracy.
We were called upon “to ask not what your country can do for you, but what you can do for your country.” That quote must find its way back in to our spirit and communal outlook.
I'm four years your junior. I got a rush of inspiration when I heard those words from JFK, although in retrospect, I was pretty self-involved. Ultimately we are individuals and we are collectively the country, so the relationship of service cuts two ways. Lincoln's "The legitimate object of government, is to do for a community of people, whatever they need to have done, but can not do, at all, or can not, so well do, for themselves---in their separate, and individual capacities." is a far cry from modern Republicans. He also said "In all that the people can individually do as well for themselves, government ought not to interfere. " which would be more to their liking, but there is a difference between interference and interaction. Democracy is all about interaction.
I really like the logic, tone and values of your comments.
signed, another one "4 years his junior".
Kennedy's words should give us pause. Stop and think about how well they were received. That was leadership at its best. Kennedy was a flawed president. They all are. We all are. We will never know how good or bad he ultimately would have performed. But he did set in motion some extremely important principles - as well described in today's letter about Ole Miss.
Then flash forward to Carter asking for a tiny sacrifice during an energy crisis and we see how we had already jumped on the "me" train. Kennedy's "we" train is how a civilized and socially compassionate society functions. I should add that the single most consistent and eloquent voice for that "we" train" right now is President Joe Biden.
Hi John, your reply came to me. TC will probably see it. He is 79. I do not believe TC was condemning any age group. If we think back to our early twenties, i remember how sure I was in what I believed, as a well educated young man and I was very active politically. Looking at what TC quoted from Rubin, perhaps we should look at ourselves, in that context.
You and TC are a few years older than me, but do we trust ourseleves now?
An example of TC's point is the San Gabrial Valley Progressives, who invited me to join prior to the 2016 election. They were a group of young Berniecrats, who I could not get a sraight answer out of, as to who they voted for, but I believe many such, all over the country could not morally justify voting for Clinton. and either did not vote or voted third party and, as a result, were a factor in giving us the T-rump.
Intelligence does not an indicator of knowledge. Expeience is. Perhaps TC was referring to that. You say you are 80. I think, by your education, you should understand this.
I would suggest you read TC's Substack. It is quite good and informative.
I was a Berniecrat (though this is my first encounter with the term). I was an alternate delegate for Bernie who emphasized the role of unregulated money in a large array of current problems. I don't think Bernie got a fair enough shake from the Democratic Party, but in the end he and I supported Hillary as the the last candidate standing who could stand up to a wannabe despot.
The thing about voting that I don't see discussed enough is the responsibility that goes with the choice. Bad choices may or may not impact us (or more accurately, we may be less aware of how they impact us unless it's directly) but odds are high that careless or neglected choices will impact those already most deprived most of all. Immigrants whose children were taken, (and a large number still not reunited with them) endured that. Thousands of COVID victims who would logically have be saved from an early death with better prevention regimes endure it. Victims of rising hate crime and those in fear of such crimes endure it. The list is long. A vote is not a personal statement so much as a strategic choice of a probable future for the many, as well as one's self.
I suspect there was a touch (well, maybe a slap) of irony intended by TC (as evidenced by his “smile” at the end of his statement.)
I was 4 1/2 on 11/22/62, and our living room was full of between 6-10 adults from our neighborhood, since my folks were the ones with both a TV and who “allowed” smoking inside. (Sidebar: “allowed” is somewhat snarky because they were not 2-3 pack a day smokers). They were both STAUNCH liberals. I was surprised to learn as an adult that my Dad’s sister and her husband (very religious people, which my folks were not) were also very liberal. Mom always bristled at that statement and would mutter “some people’s children...not mine though.”
Well Ransom, I think your second, one line paragraph speaks to my concern. Who are we, in our 70s or 80s, to look to a younger generation rather than reflect on our role? We all play a part in the collective and must build bridges rather than divide or generically call out groups.
As for those who can't offer a straight answer or go on to vote for a third party, they attempt to defy the history of third parties. I think Ross Perot might still hold the record for most third party votes. Yet, the bottom line is that we do, as another writer pointed out, have to take responsibility for our votes rather than throw them away. In 2016 Jill Stein's voters played a major factor in Trump's win. To wit, it boggles my mind that she returns in 2023 and stands prepared to play the same role. Seriously Jill??? Seriously Robert? Seriously Cornell? Seriously Dean?
As for my age, education, or experience, nothing helps me understand the insanity of our moment as we see and hear some pretty abhorrent speech and actions. Yet, I will work to find a path forward that does not disparage those who care about our democracy, but rather seek to understand in order to be understood. It's the best we (I} can do even as I look in the mirror and see a somewhat flawed individual who gives it his best.
I am 88 ---met JFK at a campaign rally in Salt Lake City when my husband was in grad school. My comment is that we all desperately need to figure out what we can as individuals do for our country.
That seems to me like a very important question, and that asking it, exploring it, and keeping it open seems like a good first step. Perhaps we already know some of the answers. E puribus Unum.
right wing propaganda for misleading Leftish youth. Yes, one must denounce the policies/actions of the Netanyahu administration supported by the collusion of American Christian Nationalists and Jewish right wing extremists but ... antiSemitism tainting righteous left wing critique of Israeli policy goes back at least to the influence in the 1970s of a PLO flush with money and never careful about antiSemitism putting out slick propaganda exhibitions and bringing in speakers to college campuses and organizing fully paid be hip and party with us trips to Lebanon, Gaza, and the West Bank *and* the influence on the left of Louis Farrakhan's NOI virulent antiSemitism. I recall early 1980s protests about US policy in Central America and seeing supporters of the PLO and NOI selling copies of the Russian antiSemitic screed The Protocols of the Elders of Zion.
Thank you for reminding everyone of the pernicious propaganda of the PLO. I was a student in Dublin, Ireland in 1977 and saw first hand, some of the posters you describe on bombed out building sites in the North, specifically Belfast. The PLO trained the Provisional wing of the Irish Republican Army in terrorist actions and then layered virulent anti-semitic ideas on an already explosive situation. One of the ugly back stories of that long-festering war allegedly based on religion - not.
I have no ideas about how to aid diplomatic efforts to end the endless war in the Middle East. But those of us who live outside the daily pain and terror on both sides need to educate ourselves deeply before wading into the policy end of the pool.
ThankYou very much for your contribution to the discussion.
I saw these poster exhibits and heard such speakers on the campus of Southern Illinois University - Edwardsville in around 1978-9.
Yes, IRA support for the Palestinian cause goes back to the British occupation of Palestine. (Seeing England as a shared enemy also involved shared IRA and Palestinian support for Nazi Germany.) Also, one ought not elide the fundamental unmitigated antiSemitism of Catholic creed at the time.
Traditional Christian antiSemitism also plays into Louis Farrakhan's personal history as well as the wedge his NOI antiSemitism has driven between Black and Jewish progressive activists.
James Baldwin in a 1962 essay recalls the religious creed based antiSemitism of the church he grew up in. But in a 1967 essay he says Blacks are not antiSemitic as such, but resent Jews because they are White.
Of course, as Jews, we're never white enough for some and always too white for others. But when effectively the KKK and NOI make common cause - it gets dicey.
It all gets complicated.
What gets lost in the confusion, is legitimate critique of Israeli government racist right wing religious extremist policy under increasingly unjust and unjustifiable Netanyahu administrations. Culminating in Netanyahu's current government which has elevated Jewish terrorists - designated as such by previous Israeli administrations - to official office.
Please don’t lump all of today’s liberal youth into this category. My liberal youth grandson could out debate many people on today’s political climate and everything I hear from his group is clear thinking, investigation and critical thinking. Your words are exactly why they have zero respect for people that can teach them from their own experiences. You’ve dismissed the future of this country because of a poster you removed and attributed to a group without any facts. Trust me, there are conservatives in your liberal enclave as well as radicals your very own age.
I'm sorry Tina, but "Biden and the Democrats" are listening to you. I'm sorry that you don't feel that way. There are many things I'd like to see the Biden administration do differently. There are many things I think the Obama administration could have done differently. However, as proven in the 2016 election, a vote for a 3rd party candidate is essentially a vote for Trump. I wish it were otherwise. I wish a vote for a 3rd party candidate would send a message to Biden and associates. Please reconsider.
Jared Huffman is now my representative. My former representative was Adam Schiff. I have been very disappointed in both of their responses to the slaughter of Palestinians by the Israeli government and West Bank settlers. But I do have to put in a word for today's liberal youth. Yes, at this moment, SOME of them are reacting to those injustices with B&W rhetoric that is of the moment. I have faith that a year from now they will have matured to the point where they will be able to clearly foresee the consequences of their choices.
The NYT did a good piece defining what a liberal is and how it differs from being a progressive. I suggest Tina fits the definition of a liberal and authors of the poster that of a progressive .. the two are similar but different.
Tina - you are correct. So many have no historical knowledge or critical thinking skills or any idea about civics, government, sociology, etc., etc., etc.. They are comfortable being led by their 'influencers'. It is sickening, dangerous and scary.
Well you did the right thing, in my opinion, by taking down the homemade sign. But, you might be underestimating those diesel truck drivers. As I have said in other posts, we cannot and should not make sweeping generalizations about any people.
Yes! We should be concerned about people posting or promoting what feels good to them but probably lacks a depth of understanding. To that end, I am convinced we need to support those who are trying to find peace wherever and whomever they may be. Everything I have seen or read suggest not all are seeking peace but many are.
I believe the Biden Administration with Anthony Blinken leading the way is working very hard to find or create paths forward. I cannot second guess those efforts but rather can hold peace in my heart and community.
Very dangerous indeed, but please consider this: the key issues that are “personal” to the youth if America are and will be next November: 1) protection of abortion rights from the Republican threat of a nationwide ban; 2) adoption of strong gun safety legislation to protect America’ youth and everyone else of a Republican movement across every state to enable everyone to buy dangerous guns without background checks etc; 3) essential new laws to fight dangerous climate change which threatens every young person’s future; and 4) a new push by Republicans to ban condoms supported by Republican Speaker Mike Johnson! I don’t think what’s happening in Israel is as important and impactful to young voters as the those four front and center nationwide threats by a Republican president, senators and House members?
I was 9, and like you, will never forget that day and the week that followed. But I had been too young to have been aware of 20,000 troops --- 20,000!!!--- being sent to Ole Miss to enforce the law. It truly boggles the mind. The moral courage of JFK and RFK was truly amazing (and MLK Jr.).
I was 19 and working in San Francisco. At noon I went for a walk and saw the newspaper headlines. I was so shocked and still recall that sick feeling inside. What especially haunted me was Mrs. Kennedy’s words about letting them see what they did, with his blood caked all over her pink suit. Of course, no internet then, just TV. And then two days later Jack Ruby (a nightclub owner) killed Lee Harvey Oswald on live TV which I saw.
I was 12 years old, in my 7th grade class when our teacher announced JFK’s death.She burst into tears and sent us home. I picked up my things and started walking home when I heard a male kid from behind me say “Yay, that n***er lover is dead!”. Now where did you think he heard it from? I ran home and locked myself in the bathroom, refusing to come out. I just knew that Khrushchev and the Russians would take over our country. I was naive but also petrified. My parents talked me out of unlocking the door and then explained to me how government works. The next 3 days were spent watching CBS News with Walter Cronkite. What got me the most was the funeral procession. That, I will never forget.
I felt that sick feeling too - along with feeling lost, without a leader. We had just gone through the Cuban Missile Crisis and had been traumatized by that. Now, we didn't have that man to protect us against the Russians.
I was in sixth grade, coming back to class from recess. Students were whispering. Mrs Gillingham stood up and told us that the president had been shot, and that we should all pray for him. It was the first time I ever heard the word prayer in a public school - so it really caught my attention. Just as she finished saying that the classroom PA system crackled to life and a TV journalist said “The President is dead.” We were all sent home and as I walked home, my 11-yo brain knew that this was something so important that I was unable to understand it.
My sister was 4 yrs old and it is one of her most vivid memories as a young child. I was born afterwards, and remember how my grandparents were still grieving the loss and firmly believed he was murdered by the CIA.
Thanks, Heather for the post. It is poignant and also, as it should, prompts alarm bells for our current time.
I was a few days shy of turning 10, preparing for my birthday party. Upon hearing the news, we cancelled my party. I knew nothing about what being the President of the United States actually meant. All I knew was that the leader of our country was killed, and that I was very sad about it.
I was 10, fifth grade. Vivid memory of my classroom, another teacher entering the room crying, speaking quietly to my teacher, Mr. Grubb, in front of the silent class. Her leaving in quiet tears, and Mr. Grubb turning to us to say the president has been shot, that we’d be going home early and our buses would be out front. At home, our b&w TV was on Walter Cronkite for days; saw Ruby shoot Oswald; the funeral procession; learning words I’d never before heard, like “caisson.” When I come across that word, I immediately remember the b&w TV screen, the dark, majestic horse with its saddle on backwards. There is nothing else in my childhood memory, or in the 50 years of adult memories, that is comparable to Nov. 22, 1963, and those days that followed.
Thank you Karen. You and I are the same age. My thoughts echo yours completely. I had not known these background details until reading this piece today. Very sobering. We have come a ways but have so far to go.
I am similarly astounded by the idea of 20,000 soldiers in Mississippi - it must have felt like a new Civil War. This newsletter is so great for giving us this kind of historical context.
Troll me thinks. But I will respond in case I am wrong. The poorly educated are most of our youth now. Years of rediculously testing them instead of actually helping them learn to think! It's been decades of a war to kill our federally funded education system . Why? By whom? The answer seems abundantly clear in light of our bought and paid for Supreme Court, our Congress filled with angry imbeciles, also bought by the obscenely wealthy. It appears to be the same racist, hate filled power structure explained here in this post that killed a President, his brother and Dr. King, the most famous but also others, killed or imprisoned trying to make a better USA and indeed
better world. 60 years and still the haters control so much and all based on racism. Yes , the media is cowardly but that is a more recent development as all have been bought and are now controlled by just a few MEN.
As to "breeding like rabbits" you show yourself to think you are above the human condition. I wonder, have you supported birth control efforts in your community? Do you support health care for all? You sound much like someone who has never gone without these most fundamental human needs. Lucky you. Don't like what you see?
VOTE and help others do so. Help make love and compassion prevail instead of blaming the victims of this never ending nightmare.
Thank you! I thought Terrie's comment was highly offensive. I was going to respond, but you did a great job of identifying the problem and the solution. "Vote and help others do so........"
In our current day society it is too easy to point in one or two directions- education or media, culture wars or sound bites fall as shallow calls to recognize there are many reasons for the divisions and misunderstandings of our country.
It seems we would be better served to step back, look at our dilemma from 30,000 feet and from the vantage point of our own communities to find ways to heal and move collectively to a more informed and engaged loving demeanor. Let’s work to restore faith in our fellow citizens and institutions by taking small steps to better educate and converse with one another.
Might we seek peace and a better civic outlook, actions, and solutions?
Yes the lowered quality of public education which should have focused on critical thinking skills…instead we got the competition in the testing testing and more g-d testing.
Honestly, liberals carry MUCH of the blame for the state of education.
With the best of intentions, we have emphasized teaching tolerance & acceptance, promoting self-esteem, removing stratification into talented vs struggling classes.
And it's nice to see how comfortable my daughter is around handicapped, trans and minority kids. There is so much less bullying. And I never see her up late at night crying that she still has an hour of homework left. But it's really frightening that she doesn't know that Africa isn't a country and that she has read less than a dozen text-based books cover to cover in the last five years.
It is easy in our "rifted" country (beyond divided!) to respond emotionally to people we consider different from ourselves, but it is not helpful to "sniff down" at people we do not understand. I am now 71. Due to my father's civil engineer position that involved overseeing projects from start to finish all over the country, I lived in 13 different places in the US by the time I graduated from high school. From North Carolina to Maine, from Massachusetts to Washington and Alaska, and Midwestern states as well, I learned that there are pockets of hate fueled by stereotypes everywhere. I think the experience taught me to avoid stereotypical thinking (when self aware enough to recognize I am doing it) and to avoid making assumptions about an individual's behavior or attitudes.
There is some brave media out there, too. Sometimes branded "alternative." I think Fox News is guilty of many journalistic sins, and mass corporate media in general falls short of greatness. But the ugly, even crazy groups in our society are, perhaps, more a reflection of our violent nature, our violent history that we were not taught in even the very best schools.
I’m guilty of having a condescending attitude towards those who espouse the extreme right politics! You’re probably right in that that’s not a “reuniting“ strategy! But, the right wing leader needs to shut down his negativity too! We’ve had enough conspiracy theories and MAGA lies for a lifetime!
Surely there's SOMEONE to blame. An 'other' unlike us 'good people', blameless and honest and full of love for our nation. Sure, we hate them, but we're good. They're bad. And they're trying to destroy our nation.
But, truly, someone from either side could read the paragraph above and know that it applies to them.
Fear causes a need to blame someone, a hatred for the cause of the fear. Hatred creates people who should see themselves as one group, to see themselves as enemies.
The only way forward is to acknowledge that we one nation, with MANY of the same goals. Democrats are not nearly as scared and desperate as Republicans because our liberal media makes money from making us feel superior while conservative media makes money from terrifying their readers that their morality and country are under attack by us.
Every time a Dem gets angry or acts superior, we widen the gap that we should be bridging. We re-enforce the core Republican message that we are their enemy and their way of life is under attack and they had better elect whoever will stick it to liberals the hardest. It's life or death.
I was 8 and remember the shock and disbelief on my parents faces, and how, as Susan does, it was on the TV endlessly. We simply must find a way to transcend the racism and violence lest it destroy us all.
Cynthia, I was also 8 when JFK was brutally murdered, When my Father picked me up from school he had the radio on in our car and the announcer on the news bulletin made the announcement that the President was dead. I asked my Father, '' President Kennedy in not really dead is he??'' My Father replied, '' i am afraid so, son.'' Even though i was just a little boy, i was astonished and very saddened by that.
I was barely two. But even I remember sitting around the TV while my parents were talking about something serious. One of my first vivid memories is watching a little boy salute his dad’s coffin. I was of course much older when I understood what I’d watched. I was in Ft Worth but my parents were from Illinois. They didn’t have the Southern outlook. Being in Ft Worth now is a nut country on a whole other level!
Me, too, Susan-I remember my mom crying and the tv coverage. I was 3 1/2-it’s my earliest memory. It left such an impression on me-and yes, it is a sobering thing to hear the calls for violence, but perhaps even more terrifying is the nonchalance and lack of empathy exhibited by the GOP in the wake of those calls. Peace be yours.
Susan, I remember far too well what Kennedy faced back then. I was 14 living in an Oklahoma town (Sulphur) that still enforced its segregated water fountains in the public library. There were two fears: 1) that Kennedy would secretly turn over the running of the country to the pope; and 2) that Kennedy (and his brother) would force the country to address its treatment of blacks. The hatred that welled up when confronted with desegregation went underground, only to return as a reaction to our first black president. You’re right—fear and hatred are a dangerous mix.
I was 8, in third grade. If I remember correctly, we spent the rest of the school day watching the news on the tv - perched on one of those "audio-visual" carts each classroom had, but rarely put into use.
Sixty years later, I thought to myself after reading this letter, one rarely anticipates an event like that occurring, but when it does, you realize; Ah, of course, it was inevitable. We haven't reached the 2nd civil war stage of the current cycle of violence, but we are certainly in it, and at this point, more violence - perhaps that 2nd civil war - seems inevitable.
With that dark thought in mind, wishing you all a peaceful, loving Thanksgiving.
I was 6, and like you, will never forget that day. The funeral, seeing Caroline Kennedy, who was my age, and knowing something terribly wrong had happened, as my parents and grandparents were glued to the TV. I remember lying under the piano bench and watching and listening and knowing that something impossibly wrong had just happened.
I was almost four, and my memory is like yours. Our family had just gotten our first television. It was small, black and white, of course, and sat on a high shelf. I thought there would be shows to watch, but on every channel a flag-draped coffin lay.
I was 6, and it is also one of my earliest memories. We were sent home early from school, and when I got home the house was mostly dark, and my mother was in the kitchen frying something. She shouldn’t have been home as she was a working mother, so something was indeed very wrong. In the den adjoining the kitchen, the television was on as it would be for days.
I was 4 1/2 and remember going in to watch a 2:00 show on TV. The living room had my folks and 5 neighbors crowded in, watching the TV coverage (we were the only family that had a TV and allowed smoking). I was banished to the back of the house with a “Quick Draw McGraw” album for the duration.
Same. I had just turned 4 a month before. I remember my cartoons were pre-empted and my sister came home from (Catholic) school early and very upset. Kennedy's assassination is one of my earliest memories. An introduction to just how crazy this world can be.
I was thirteen and had no sense that such a thing was even possible--that this shiny, elegant President who the whole world loved (I took for granted) had been killed. I didn't know or understand the racial underpinnings of the hatred of Kennedy. Of course, it was wrong to be racist. Everyone knew that! We were a naive generation who had grown up in a country that was convinced of itself and its rightness and, of course, we stood for truth and justice and democracy. That was a long time ago.
I was 4, as well, living in Fort Worth on the edge of chaos but thereafter an increasingly aware on-looker. Officer Tippit, old Oswald Cowtown haunts, Zapruder, "hey didja know...?".
It was a day with global impact but then so small-town local for a child.
My sister was 10 months old, and has a similar memory, although I don't think it affected her the way it did you, as she was too young for that. But she remembers being in front of the TV and some of what she saw.
The country is far nuttier today — both in intensity and geographic spread. We can thank the omnipresence of media, professional and less so. Via social media every crazy idea and outlandish lie multiply and reach everywhere instantly.
On a personal note, I can still remember so vividly learning of the news in junior high. Students openly sobbed. This was in Central Florida where the Cuban Missile Crisis was tangible, waves of military planes flying south. At school we had regular drills in "hiding" underneath our small desks as if that would save us from Armageddon. JFK was our hero for defusing the crisis. And then he was dead.
I had a similar experience with the Cuban Missile Crisis only on the West Coast. My Dad was a Navy jet pilot and we had moved from California and were then stationed on Whidbey Island, WA in Oak Harbor. I was 9 years old at the elementary school off base when an announcement came over the loud speaker that President Kennedy had been shot and killed in Dallas. We were stunned and the teacher was crying as were we the students. It was frightening. The bus came to take us back to our base housing and it was a heart wrenching time.
I had just been called out of class by the (high school) school nurse and was being driven home by her. I had had a terrible cough for six weeks which was finally getting better when our imperious family doctor finally decided (after weeks of telling me it was nothing, to take an xray which came back showing pneumonia. I heard on the nurse's car radio that the president had been shot, and then that he was dead. I was stunned. I much admired JFK, who was popular among my classmates.
I was working in London. Yes, we all crowded in fearful silence round a radio on the kitchen table to listen to the leader take us through the Cuba missile crisis. And that day in November people were crying openly in the street, for the loss of hope, for the loss of greatness.
I started listening, but, as is always the case with youtube, there are way, way too many words (constant talking) and way too little information (the talking is mostly spurious). The main reason why I love Dr. Richardson's post?. Few words and huge amount of information. All garnered over a 5 minute period of reading.
Michael, my father-in-law was an Air Force pilot who flew 82 Albatross missions before and during the Bay of Pigs and the Cuban Missile Crisis (earning the highest medal for valor outside of a combat situation then awarded; barely junior to the Bronze Star, which he was awarded for his Viet Nam service) and at the time of JFK’s assassination was in the cadre of Air Force One pilots.
He was home that day, and my wife (then 18 months) and her brother (2 1/2) had been playing in the car and knocked it out of gear, causing it to roll down the driveway. He had gone to the body shop when the got scrambled. He called my mother-in-law and had her take a cab to the shop, get the car and the kids, and get out of DC.
It was interesting listening to him in later years (he hated the Kennedy’s and was a racist a****le to boot) thank about the uncertainty of that day, and his wondering who was behind the assassination.
"I want them to see what they have done to Jack." Jacqueline Kennedy
A picture tells a thousand words. Trite but true. How about some pictures of the Supremes basking in the sun with their benefactors? And next to that picture, the same judges explaining why their benefactor deserved to have a tax law ruling overturned.
And where are the pictures of Trump's border wall that has been patched over 4000 times since it was installed?
We can think of it as nuttier, but there is method in the madness, and to me it all points to plutocrats, although there seems to be something in many, many people who somehow prefer as stratified, top-down society to the messy but invigorating ferment of democracy. It seems that the plutocrats and the top-downers enable one another. Otherwise, I think humanity would have just said "no" to tyrants eons ago.
It's weird to see hard right wingers making gains in other nations given the historical and current examples of where that leads. It weird that people would kill to try to keep keep an ordinary man of another race from attending a university.
But who had the most to gain from slavery? Who gains most from the "Republican" shift to hard right? Follow the money.
We have 2yrs to go in France and there is a real danger that the Right wing Marine Le Pen will get in BUT I don't see her as dangerous as Trump or many of the other Repubs.
One supposes that Spain still has some memory of dictatorship. I know Occupation still echos in French society. It's seems something of a mystery why we often keep making the same mistakes. France had fascism foisted on them, but you would think they'd want no part of it. Nazis were way unpopular when I was a kid, although fascism masqueraded as aggressive anti-communism; such as the reign Joe McCarthy. Unchecked, unbalanced power, left, right, or whatever, abridged unalienable rights, tends to corrupt.
“I want them to see what they’ve done to Jack”…..Jackie was right about the brutal photos of President Kennedy’s death….and the ‘caked blood’ on her suit…and we REALLY need in the next 11 months to ‘see to it’ that we help US voters to SEE what is at stake in this presidential election! and there should be no ignorance about the price we will pay if Trump and those white supremicists win!
I was a very young sophomore in high school worried about a chemistry test on that day. There was no way to ever erase the image of Jackie in the blood stained pink suit. I think her actions following the assassination, her courage that day in being present at Lyndon Johnson's swearing in, lent legitimacy and almost unbearable dignity to the peaceful transition of power on that plane. Compare that to Trump's mockery of that process, and disdain for our institutions.
Perhaps "seeing what they've done" is what is needed to bend the arc history--the violence done to Emmett Till, to Jack Kennedy, to our children in school shootings, to George Floyd, on January 6. The question is are there enough of us who have eyes that actually perceive the violence and hate and are sickened enough to take a stand?
Solemn, definitely, but peaceful for the transition itself, in spite of the horrible act of violence that provoked it, and in contrast to the violence of January 6. That was what I was trying to express. I meant peaceful as in peaceful transition of power which we all believed in back in 1963. It was, back then, what we always assumed would happen in our country. We can assume it no longer.
Agree, Georgia, as in 2020, the 1963 transition was only after considerable anxiety that further violence might prevent it. That calm swearing in of new president was a great relief.
I remember the events as if yesterday. But this recounting of the hatred against Kennedy was a startling reminder of how the civil rights issue divided our country and lingers to this day.
I'm aware now of how awful and dangerous racism is, but I had little awareness of it, at 10, on that day. I remember speculation about whether Communist Cubans or the Mafia had assassinated JFK, but no talk about racism. The Mississippi story now adds a whole new layer to my memories of that horrible day, particularly since I had spent 5 years of my childhood in Fort Worth prior to that. I was unaware that I was growing up in nut country.
I too have never learned that white supremacy was the actual cause of this assassination. It seems that all the talk blaming communists and socialists was just dog whistling to actual racists.
Well from what I've read there were tensions and fears there that day, and the Mississippi thing must have ramped that up considerably, but we still don't know what the cause was even today.
The memory is seared into the brains and lives of those who were alive at that time. Yes, JFK was a young man, but Jacqueline Kennedy was only 34 years old on that day and publicly led this country through an excruciating time of national grief and mourning with unprecedented poise and grace.
I was 13 and in the 8th grade. In many ways, that was when my awakening really began. When I later encountered Edmund Burke's famous admonition, one of my first thoughts was that JFK was indeed a good man who chose to do something. They may have cut him down, but evil has not been triumphant.
I was 14 and in the ninth grade in Manhattan, NY. I will never forget the day and the ride home on the crosstown bus from my high school Julia Richman. People were openly weeping on the streets of New York. No one was home when I arrived to our new apartment on the Upper West Side. I wasn’t sure what to do, so i wandered down to the street and entered a museum on the corner of Riverside Drive and 103rd Street. There was an exhibit of psychedelic art, with music in each room. A strange way to spend the late afternoon in November, 1963. Lady Bird’s memories were very poignant and have affected me deeply. I hope we are wiser now and will work on turning the tide of history. Happy Thanksgiving, 🍁 Heather and Buddy and to all in this vital community.
Well said.... I was in jr high in Portland, ME. Repeating my comment (posted 10 min after your post): "What an incredibly sad day. I was 12 and have never forgotten everyone's disbelief in our junior high (in Portland, ME) when the PA system announced that the President had been shot and that we were to all go home. The enormity of this transformational day... I mark it as a political awareness day for me. Assassinations were (in my mind) a thing of the distant past that had happened to Lincoln. -- I do believe that JFK (maybe) and RFK (definitely) would have been very good if not very great Presidents. On the other hand, maybe LBJ was the only person who could have passed the Civil Rights legislation as President. We will never know. That's how history goes."
Steve, while I don't know a lot about LBJ beyond his reign as a real "operator" as Speaker of the House before signing on to JFK's presidential run, my impression is that Kennedy's assassination gave him a true "cause" in civil rights to fight for, a fight for which he was especially gifted. It was sad to subsequently see his accomplishments substantially undercut by his prosecution of the Viet Nam war, the other legacy from JFK.
Absolutely! I almost included his role in the Vietnam War, but didn't want to detract from his Civil Rights legacy.... and we don't know if Kennedy would have gotten us involved in Vietnam.
Still so fresh. Still causes me to tear up, my throat to tighten. I was 14 years old. John Kennedy was my first political campaign. Then came MLK, Robert Kennedy and many others. Our violent country that continues to kill, and kill and kill.
Thanks for this. My father was a Republican and didn’t want JFK to reach the presidency. It was the first time I remember hearing about politics. I had no reason to question his opinion.
I was in 4th grade on that horrible day, but only remember wondering what all the fuss was about. We heard about the murder during class. I couldn’t figure out how he got shot in a temple if he was in a car! That’s when I learned the name of another part of my head.
My dad didn’t like JFK, so why were the teachers so upset? I thank subsequent educators for filling in the blanks and that includes HCR, who continues to fill in the blanks and tie events together.
The struggle against discrimination in any form and the tendency for humans to assert tribalism, might continue forever, considering human nature. But I will continue to speak a different truth of human dignity and compassion. To honor my dad who had both. (He was an Eisenhower R.)
The National trauma gave birth to the Conspiracy Theory Industry which continues in Podcasts to this very day complete with teasers to encourage "likes" & inadmissible grifting drivel.
Byan Sean McKown, I can't help but feel amused by your suggestion that the "Conspiracy Theory Industry" was born with Kennedy's assassination. While it was certainly given a jolt and a lot of national attention, the Conspiracy Theory Industry has a much longer history.
Thank you. I was 10, in fifth grade, when Kennedy was killed. I remember it vividly, and then later on my entire elementary school filing somberly into the auditorium to watch the funeral procession together on a television someone had brought in. But I am white, raised in a predominantly white small rural town, and I had no sense of the civil rights struggle going on, no idea of the reason Kennedy was in Dallas. It’s taken me all these decades since, and listening to smart historians like you, to understand the causes and the contexts for the history I experienced as a child.
Well said, and my experience was similar. I was also 10 and in the fifth grade. In September our teacher had requested an autographed picture of JFK, on behalf of our class and she showed it to us and was very proud of it. We lived in Las Vegas at the time. On that fateful day, I was out at school lunch break and a boy had a transistor radio and heard the news that JFK was shot and several of us gathered around to listen. We were shocked of course. Then I walked back to the classroom and saw the teacher and all of the girls crying. I knew immediately that our President was dead. I'm tearing up just writing this. My parents and I watched the funeral procession on TV with neighbor friends on the 25th. I will never forget John Jr's salute. He was his 3rd birthday.
Kennedy's murder happened 1 year before my birth. Yet today is the FIRST time I learned that his assassination was linked to white supremacy. Our country's teaching of history is severely compromised. I'm disgusted at how much ignorance and bigotry is not only allowed, but actually openly encouraged by certain loud segments of the "humanity for me but not for thee crowd". (And yes, the religious thee is used on purpose.)
You bring a tear to my eyes. I was 10 and in a catholic school. A nun went from class to class reporting that the president had been shot and to stand and pray. I remember so well. I remember the lonely walk home from school that day. Then sitting in front of the family TV with my sister and crying uncontrollably. Mother came upstairs and tried to say something lighthearted but it didn’t work. Then Walter Cronkite looked at the wall clock or maybe his watch and pronounced the president dead. And my days of innocence ended at that moment and I realized that the world I had been born into was a cruel one. And it has only become more cruel as the decades have passed.
No, he didn’t, but his struggle, subtle as it was, to keep his composure was palpable emanating from the TV screen and somehow made the devastating news even more piercing.
I was 9 at a Catholic school. Never ever have believed Oswald was guilty. I remember that walk home, so confused, so sad. We will never know who killed President Kennedy.
I was 12 at a Catholic school. My girlfriend and I were just walking back to school after eating “uptown” when we heard the news. I think it was particularly resonant in the Catholic community.
Yes, I was a sophomore at a Catholic Girls High School in San Francisco, in Sr. Agnes' class. Of course Pres Kennedy was adored by the nuns ass the first Catholic President. The principal, Sr. Charlotte, came on the PA system and told us that the President had been shot. We and the adjoining elementary school (boys and girls schools) marched 2 blocks down Fair Oaks St to pray for the President at St. James Church. We were then told the President died. It was a very sad march back to school, where we were dismissed. The next few days were a blur of television news until on Sunday morning, I watched Jack Ruby kill Oswald on national TV. Horrible, horrible times were just beginning.
So vivid. I was same age, recall Cronkite was reading paper copy (from something like the AP wire), that he swallowed and started speaking, glanced up at what I have thought was a wall clock (newsrooms did not exist without wall clocks) when he got to the specific time of death, adding how many minutes ago that had occurred. And he stopped speaking for a moment, gathered himself to go on. No added drama; completely genuine. Mentioned this elsewhere, but the array of memories about Nov. 22, 1963, and the ensuing days = the most detailed, vivid memory of at least my childhood -- among the top ones of my 70-year-old life.
I know. Whether JFK would have used his time well as president, one can never know. But the myth of Camelot and my mother’s absolute admiration of him instilled in me a sense of greatness then sudden total loss. AS I said, his murder ending my brief illusion of rightful purpose, of innocence. It was over. And early rock n roll also died when the Beatles arrived. 1958 through 1963 is the musical song period I enjoy performing.
I was in 1st grade in our one room school in Ontario. Our Teacher Mrs Lee broke the news to us. I still remember the incredible amount of sadness that even we as young Canadians felt about his assassination. We mourned with the USA.
Thanks, very much for your comment, Donna. It makes me wonder what most Canadians think about what is going on now here in the USA with the Fascist GQP and the Mango Monster, Donald TUMP?? I have chatted with a few Canadians recently, and they seem to be very disgusted and angered at what is going on now here in the USA, much like me and the great people on this comment site. Canada is an interesting and fascinating nation to me.
Like so many others, I remember the day with crystal clarity too. I was at boarding school in New Hampshire, and one of my friends give us the news in the hallway upstairs just outside my room. It didn't seem possible. It shouldn't happen in the US! Kennedy represented a better way, and no one really knew Johnson at my school. We were plunged into uncertainty and unbearable sadness as the campus came together to watch the news. Still, after all these years, I still have the dream of a better America. Reading about this tragic event makes me more determined than ever to join others to work for a better county, now and next year.
Thank you Jan Tappan... may strength and community devotion support your commitment to creating and supporting the work of making this 2023-into-2024 a better country
… Or imagine how America would have turned out if the majority of voters, not the electoral college, had put Al Gore in the presidency (with a climate change action plan) instead of Bush Jr (with Iraq war, rise of ISIS), or Hillary Clinton (checking Putin) instead of Donald Trump (encouraging racists to come out from under their rock’s, flattering dictators like Putin who felt emboldened to invade Ukraine, attempted coup to undermine US democracy). Americans’ poor choices have led to untold suffering. What’s wrong with these people?
Roger Stone and the Supreme Court kept Al Gore from the presidency. The evil underbelly of the USA. Here is Rob Reiner's new podcast and what, most probably, happened to JFK and why. Very convincing.
Cathy, the last sentence in your comment is the same thing i have asked myself and others the very same question hundreds of times. It seems to me that ''these people'' are horribly brainwashed and pitifully gullible to the extreme.
Curtis LeMay and the joint chiefs of the defense department wanted to bomb and invade Cuba during the missile crisis. President Kennedy and his administration rejected their advice and avoided war. JFK was a negotiator. The assassinations of Jack Kennedy and Yitzsak Rabin were coups we still suffer from.
I agree Bill. People forget that Kennedy was president when we first became involved in Vietnam. For a long time, only young people were against that war.
Kennedy was the guy who got us deeper into Vietnam. He got publicly humiliated by Krushchev at the Vienna Summit in 1961, came home looking for a way to get "payback." He read the Soviet theory of supporting "wars of national liberation" and determined we would oppose them. That December he ordered 1,500 "advisors" to Vietnam.
And do not fall for the liberal myth that he was shot because he was going to get us out. He had ordered the overthrow of Diem a month earlier, and went along with Diem's assassination by the ARVN. He was the cold warrior's Cold Warrior. I've written two books about my war, and in none of my research did I turn up anything about him ending our involvement. But the Kennedy Machine did a good job of putting all the blame on LBJ, the guy who had to be dragged kicking and screaming into each and every "escalation" the Kennedy New Frontiersmen (led by Strange McNamara and McGeorge Bundy, JFK's two most trusted and influential guys) came up with.
If you want to listen to a shocking podcast listen to "Nixon's War" and you hear live tapes of LBJ, Nixon and Kissinger. Nixon could have ended the VN War soon after he entered office in 1970, instead he waited until 1973 and killed a lot more Americans and Vietnamese. Oh, and sweet Kissinger is still alive!!
You'd have thought he'd have learned everything he needed to know about Vietnam when he visited the place in 1953 as a new Senator and came back to tell people the French were going to lose and deserved to and we had a big problem because we were seen as the supporters of the French - which we were. But 9 years later he forgot everything. Kennedy was not the "deep thinker" they tried to portray him as. "Profiles in Courage" was ghost written from his college term paper. And his idea of courage was the Republican Senator who cast the deciding vote not to impeach Andrew Johnson, who deserved impeachment then as much as Trump does.
JFK was the first politician I worked for, hanging door knockers for him in 1960 when I was in high school. I actually believed his BS inaugural address. My own experience of Vietnam, and then researching it nowadays when you can get access to all the stuff that used to be classified, I've lost all good thought of him. He wasn't even close to what people thought - and some still think - he was.
Nobody is perfect. Not JFK for sure. Vietnam was a HUGE money maker for both military contractors and elected officials who were continuously paid well to authorize more weapons during the Vietnam war. Many a congressman got super rich off of the military contractor lobby.
It is not really JFK who was at fault. It was/is our entire governmental system which is, honestly, fundamentally flawed.
If you or I were in Congress or the Presidency, all day long, every day, rich contractors would be in our office attempting to buy us. Since that really can change the trajectory of one's life (big money that is), you and I would probably have bombed Vietnam for 30 years as well.
We would be hugely rich as a result.
Our government, which, is really just a big House of Prostitution where our "Congress people" (the prostitutes) are paid very well to do what they are told by contractors and lobbyists (the johns).
Don't blame JFK for being human. Me n You? We would be doing the same thing.
Many of us at Penn walked dazed and weeping in the streets that day and the next, and then the assassin was murdered while in police custody, on live tv. That day began the long painful downfall into the chaos of Viet Nam and the end of feeling safe when on the streets. The catafalque, Jaackie's removal her ring to place it on her dead husband's finger, all haunted us and still do haunt us to some extent.
I was a college freshman sitting in a world history class when someone stuck his head in the door and said, “Kennedy just got shot!” The entire class was in a stupor. There was a history professor named Kennedy and that created some initial confusion! But as we learned from our professor, Dr. Eugene Huck, it was President Kennedy. He quickly dismissed class! Many students and teachers crowded into the student lounge to watch the proceedings on television! That day is embedded in my memory forever!
My Father had just let me in the car in front of Central High and Elementary School when i heard the news that Pres. Kennedy had been shot and killed 60 years ago. I was in the 3rd grade and only 8 years old. I will never forget that horrible day in our history.
I was only 4, but I will never forget this being on the television for what seemed all day and all night. It is probably the only thing I really remember from age 4, but it truly affected me and it still does. We have to take seriously the calls for violence against judges, politicians, poll workers and others.
I live in a small town, in a liberal bubble within the liberal bubble of California. The other day I saw an 8.5x11” paper posted on a wall of a restaurant in our tiny liberal down town. It was a Wanted:Dead or Alive poster for our district’s Democrat representative Jared Huffman, calling him a Palestinian child and baby killer for voting to continue to give money to Israel. I can guess that it wasnt the obnoxious diesel truck redneck magapublicans who posted it. They wouldnt have enough gray matter to put this together. I took it down. I found it a very dangerous thing to be promoting. It is troublesome to me that today’s liberal youth (I am 55, I dont feel all that old yet) are so absolutely ignorant that they are falling for the propaganda that the magapublicans hope they fall for, that they have zero historical knowledge or lack such critical thinking skills that they cannot for a moment ask themselves, “hmmmm, am I over-simplifying a situation I really know nothing about, and am going to vote for a third party candidate and that will show Biden and the Democrats that they better listen to me, a smartphone zombie”, and just like that, poof- there goes the great American experiment.
Tina, Commenting on “liberal youth,” while we must admonish both the violent rhetoric you referenced and also a proclivity to support third party candidates, who, invariably, will contribute to election results that likely produce rule by a plurality rather than a majority, contrary to your claim of unmitigated ignorance or an inability to think critically, I write to offer an alternate perspective. Though obviously not always the case, I have found, relative to the Hamas/Israeli War, that young, particularly college-educated, youth, increasingly are accepting the view that the only way Hamas ultimately will be weakened and made an irrelevant political force is if Palestinians have a path to freedom and can see that an ethical resistance, not what happened on October 7th, but an ethical fight for its rights, is working.
Thank you Barbara Jo. It is all too easy to focus on just about any group or individual. It seems to me that it is a moment for each of us to show some restraint while we seek ways to be helpful or let those beyond our immediate community work for peace where war has all to often been an impediment to civility.
There it is. Tina spoke to my fear, Barbara to my hope, and John to my struggle. Working for peace is not easy.
Thank you Jay....I had the same sequence of reaction, but didn't quite know how to manage/describe it. I am grateful for your clarity. And thank you to Tina, Barbara Jo, John and you. Blessings,
Exactly.
Thank you, John, for your reply. I take heart from your words, which I view as mirroring the thoughts of a nearly critical mass, all of whom are determined to ward off the darkness that is threatening virtually every aspect of our civil society.
The impediment to peace is religion. Islam is not a religion of tolerance, even among its own people. The only solution is a two-state one. A Palestinian state can be carved out the same way modern Israel was carved out. It has to be that way to avoid more of this.
Um, hold on a big minute, Mr. Sutherland: Islam ABSOLUTELY IS a religion of tolerance, love, care for those in need, generosity, humility, praise of and guidance from a Higher Power, good will toward ALL people, etc etc etc. Sadly and alarmingly, just like Christianity, it has been twisted and distorted and reinterpreted and manipulated to mean what terrorists (foreign and domestic) have needed it to represent.
Real Muslims are wonderful human beings and, just like real Christians, despise all this murderous, greedy, self-serving behavior the United States, the world, is caught up in.
Please, PLEASE, let’s all stop criticizing, fearing, HATING what we do not understand, what we really know nothing about.
SL Weston, beautifully said. Thank you. I’d encourage Richard Sutherland to read the poetry of the Sufis, beginning with Rumi. Or the memoir by Daisy Khan called Born with Wings. I know many peace loving and kind Muslims. We must open our minds and hearts to all of the people on our planet.
I responded to Richard Sutherland and forgot to say Thank you to you for your heart-felt comment.
And here's where my hope comes from - hatred is a symptom of hurt. Love is and always will be stronger than any hatred that shows up in ourselves and others. If we bring healing love to the hurt, we are holding the stronger energy and "we shall overcome"...by the strength of our healing, loving hearts. Blessings
THANK YOU, SLWeston, for introducing a more generous, humane, and accurate perspective, which accomplishes what religion at it's best is all about.
I respectfully disagree. Muslims even kill their own females if the ladies don't cover their heads. Tolerance? It should be made of sterner stuff. The evil that the Christians inflict up others here in the U.S., for example, racist Christians, is not done in the name of the religion. But, to the contrary, the numerous, numerous Islamic terrorist organizations do what they do in the name of Islam. This is one report: Since the 1979 Islamic Revolution, one of the key priorities of the Iranian regime has been exporting its revolution abroad. Designated a sponsor of terror by the U.S. government in 1984, Iran is considered the “foremost state sponsor of terrorism,” providing “a range of support, including financial, training, and equipment, to [terrorist] groups around the world – particularly Hezbollah,” according to the U.S. State Department.
So very true.
Kennedy's murder happened 1 year before my birth. Yet today is the FIRST time I learned that his assassination was linked to white supremacy. Our country's teaching of history is severely compromised. I'm disgusted at how much ignorance and bigotry is not only allowed, but actually openly encouraged by certain loud segments of the "humanity for me but not for thee crowd". (And yes, the religious thee is used on purpose.) I routinely find that devoutness is too often correlated to heirarchy and bigotry, the belief that their faith makes them better than others. From there it's a short slide to dehumanizing others.
The Warren report did not determine why Oswald shot JFK; as TIME reported in 1964, “The explanation of Oswald's motive for killing President Kennedy was buried with him.”
Chances are we'll never really ever know what motivated Oswald.
I wouldn’t be born until ’68, and despite being taught history in school, this is the first time I’ve heard of JFK’s assassination being linked to white supremacy, as well. I was taught that his assassination was over Cuba (communism) and that it was LBJ’s support of civil rights that southern democrats became republicans. This article actually made me cry :(
Barbara, did you see my post just a few postings above yours? I've believed for years that racial hatred killed JFK.
Lately, it seems that Christianity is not a religion of tolerance - if you look at Christian Nationalist propaganda. I am an agnostic but I think people who are intolerant use religion to justify their hate-filled speech and to whip up others for reasons of power, profit or personal dysfunction. But I will admit that there have been so many atrocities committed by “religious” people that I often feel like we would be better off without religion.
I totally feel that religion is the root to all evil. I too consider myself agnostic. I will never understand why people grab onto this historical story of one supreme being. I ask myself what is the payoff for these believers. It must make them feel good. To each his own. Let there be peace, let peace begin with me.
Better off without religion? That would make a great Master's thesis. One could do studies in those countries where religion plays a minor part and compare them with one or more countries where religion plays a significant part. The Founding Fathers were well aware of the religious wars between the Protestants and the Catholics that wracked Europe for almost two centuries. I think that all atheists are also agnostic - we can't know. What's on the other side of the Universe? Empty space? It's beyond our comprehension capacity to know. If there is other life out there somewhere, it may be that none of it has a brain or a capacity to reason or to know or to think. We could be the best there is.
I can do without religion but NOT without God
The impediment to peace is people.
Carolyn, respectfully, it is more than people. Look at the situation here in the U.S. If Trump and the MAGA/KKK take power in next year's election, there will be no reason for Thanksgiving. It's what people think, believe and act on that count. Religion, race and ethnicity as well as one's sex are some of the various components. I have seen one report that 54% of Americans between 16 and 74 read at a 6th grade level or below. I need to look into this further to confirm. If so, that helps to explain the racism, misogyny, xenophobia and homophobia of the MAGA/KKK,
I would say its more about territorial dispossession. Of course, you can read Islam into this quite easily, but the real motivation has been the broad destruction of a one-time Palestinian society, the "Catastrophe", as it is remembered. Has Hamas now just committed political suicide and made things even worse? Sad to say, Israel's military over reaction is just about what Hamas leadership expected. I hear the death toll now has exceeded 14000.
Exactly right.
It IS exactly what Hamas expected - invited! The attack on October 7th was a guarantee that there would be a retaliation. What is the end game? What kind of fighter has no goal other than the deaths of all its opponents? No desire for his own state? No desire to protect his own people? Frank, it's more than political suicide. It is literal suicide.
What kind of a brain wants an endless war? What kind of heart invites - literally welcomes - the deaths of thousands of its own people - women, children?
It's almost as if there is a death worm in their brains. And the same worm is living in some of their enemies. When this ends, historians may view this in a light similar to Carthage.
What about all the half million settlers (with military guns) living on Palestinian land?
Half million Jews on Palestinian land? It's an issue that must be resolved if the killing is to stop.
YEP, armed and refusing to join the military. Religious fanaticism in full dress.
The impediment to a two-state solution is not religion. It is the extremists among those who purport to be religious, and who seem to have the loudest voice.
Put a new southern border for Israel between Gaza and the West Bank. This unifies the two areas. The Negev region becomes Palestine. This provides space for the large population of Gaza to move into. The Negev does not currently contain a large population of Jewish People. There are resources that can help contribute to a viable economy. This requires an outside authority to force Israel to accept. As it did to create Israel. The Israeli leadership has never wanted to accommodate the Palestinians. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Israel#/media/File:Israel_population_density_2018.png
It is long past time to "fix" this. No agreement will give either side everything it wants. That's what compromise is all about, something the MAGA/KKK refuse to do. In fact, they want a white Protestant autocracy and to get it they've got to cheat.
My husband taught me that. Although both of us were “lapsed” (doing church music for years and learning history can be a Wizard of Oz experience). During our ten years in France he refused to visit cathedrals after a time, thinking of how many died to build them.
I don’t agree with you. I am not religious, I admit, but I think disparaging another’s religion is an inflammatory practice.
I think a flaw in Israel’s government is the degree to which it mixes its religion and civil government. I also favor a two-state solution, but if the Palestinians take the same approach and develop a quasi-religious government of their own, the two states will forever feel great friction.
Yes, a 2 state solution is the answer. But the majority of Arabs do not believe in that as a solution. They want the Jews and Israel to cease to exist.
Somehow, there must be a solution. Well, perhaps not, not until Islam and Judaism no longer exist. Very depressing.
I am troubled by the ignorance of some of our older friends about the current war. I have seen far too many memes which reference ancient times as if Israelis were the only people present in the Palestine of that era. They are also woefully ignorant of more current events and the role of others like the Brits during the Palestinian Mandate and seem to think that modern Israel has nothing to do with Gaza and the formation of Hamas. They know nothing or choose to know nothing about what has been going on and is going on in the West Bank. They do acknowledge that Bibi is awful. We have an on going argument with someone who is not Jewish (but said recently she thinks she has some Jewish ancestors) who keeps posting memes and makes no distinction between Hamas and ordinary Palestinians. She has gotten history lessons from both of us about both ancient times and more modern history. She seems to have stopped at least for now. This is so complex with many players then and now, so memes do not help.
"I have found, relative to the Hamas/Israeli War, that young, particularly college-educated, youth, increasingly are accepting the view that the only way Hamas ultimately will be weakened and made an irrelevant political force is if Palestinians have a path to freedom and can see that an ethical resistance, not what happened on October 7th, but an ethical fight for its rights, is working."
Your summary describes my two 25 year old twins perspective, both with a university degree, exactly.
Of course, it is also my perspective and, I think, any reasonable person's perspective. Hamas will not go away as long as Israel continues to terrorize, colonize, steal land, and murder Palestinians with impunity using US weapons and US provided money for bulldozers to push down houses.
Mike, Considering, over the past 6 weeks, that U.S. leadership had persistently underscored its hopes that Israel not repeat our mistakes after 9/11, I had believed enough of those at the top would be receptive to the advantages of viewing the situation our way. Hence, starting by meeting with our district U.S. House Representative and our 2 Senators, we’re trying to create a ripple effect so others, nationwide, would do the same.
Good for you and good luck!
The Biden Administration should have pushed back much harder to blunt the Israeli settlers transgressions.
Pretty much, but here's an Aljazeera article, gives you an idea what you're up against .... https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2021/5/18/mapping-israeli-occupation-gaza-palestine
Thanks. I am a fan of Aljazeera although tend toward Wapo, NYT and The Guardian. The Guardian seems less biased.
Frank, thank you for the link.
Thank you Barbara Jo, cooler heads must prevail, but I certainly understand Tina's fear. I have lived through this media frenzy since the 1967 war. The racism of the highly educated then towards the Palestinians and Arabs was palpable, at least to my ears listening. The Palestinian's situation is much better known now. It is well recognied that they also deserve a homeland, The Likud and Netanyahu have used and strengthened Hamas to stoke up Israeli opposition to the two state solution. We all know what is going on there.The media coverage is so graphic now that the young people are horrified and want it to stop NOW. Unfortuntly, that is not how negocations work. I look foeward to hearing from Biden in a few days, if this truce he brokered holds and the people hear how difficult the process is, from the man who has been on it 24/7 since October 7th. In the meantime, have a great Thanksgiving.
The problem with suppression is that it produces radicals. The problem with radicals is that it produces more radicals on the 'other' side. This leads to constant warfare, degrading the economic, moral, and spiritual welfare of all involved. Real leaders offer a way up and out of this hamster wheel of death. The Biden/Harris/Blinken team is offering just such a way to the Likud coalition and Hamas.
Under their current respective leaderships, Hamas will be extinguished in a few years and Israel, if it survives at all, will be a police state hemorrhaging population to Europe and the US. Only by giving the Palestinians their own state and/or a true voice in the Israeli democracy can Israel survive and the Palestinians thrive.
"Only by giving the Palestinians their own state and/or a true voice in the Israeli democracy can Israel survive and the Palestinians thrive."
Exactly ZERO chance this will happen. Israeli hate toward Palestinians is "deep and wide". Since that hate is fully supported by US money and weapons, Israel has no reason to change.
And the destruction of Gaza by the Israelis, and the killing of innocents in pursuit of the destruction of Hamas, will only give us another generation (or two or three) of Palestinians who will continue to work for the destruction of their oppressor. All of the efforts made by the US to broker peace have come to naught.
The WAPO photograph of the children lying dead brought home that Hamas must be stopped. Never at the cost of innocent lives.
A two state solution is inevitable. But it will probably happen after Israelis realize they are completely isolated and as world opinion has turned so away from them that they have no choice. Support for Israel will become fragile in the US. The media shows us the carnage hourly. Public opinion will shift.
The awful irony is that Hamas is making any solution impossible in the short term. What mystifies me is the lack of resolve by Palestinians to overthrow the fascist terrorists who rule them and invite - no, create - the deaths of women and children. It boggles.
For now, this is how it looks. You are right, Mike. From Pew before October 7:
"Only 35% of Israelis think “a way can be found for Israel and an independent Palestinian state to coexist peacefully,” according to the survey, which was conducted in March and April, prior to the latest violence in the West Bank. That represents a decline of 9 percentage points since 2017 and 15 points since 2013. Sep 26, 2023"
And then there is the other reality: that Hamas will never accept Israel’s existence and will not stop killing until Israel ceases to exist.
There are many reasons for the hate you speak of. There was no “Palestine” until after WW I and then the waffling of the British government did little, if anything, to deal fairly with the people who lived in that part of the defeated Ottoman Empire. Promises were made to both polities though nothing substantial to satisfy any group.
The various Arab groups did what they could and established several states which, unfortunately, excluded the people we now call Palestinians. To this day neighboring nations have not welcomed Palestinians and have maintained camps of refugees rather than welcoming their neighbors to citizenship or encouraging the creation of a state for the Palestinians.
Did you see our president’s hug? It was the beginning of the end for Netanyahu. The Israelis in the streets before the war understood it. They were there for change. It’s those we have seen on TV who are still caught up in hatred and fear.
Sorry, but no. There may be a few who reason as you do, but they are a tiny minority. You can tell that by how few express equal outrage at Hamas and Israel. Much more common are the those who behave as if history began on October 8th. They have no understanding of, nor interest in trying to know what is like to be among a tiny fraction of the world’s people who have been threatened with extermination again and again and again today. I say this as a Jew and a Zionist who reviles the clique that runs the Israeli government, someone who sees little difference between “Jewish” extremist settlers who want to clear Palestinians from the West Bank, and Hamas.
You are right, but the problem with including Hamas in that analysis is that Hamas is a nihilistic inhuman terror organization, and deserves no quarter. It is not fighting for Palestinians, but for Iran. It arose from misinformation and incompetence and inept leadership. In that way, the parallels to the risks we face in the US are scary.
Is it anti-Semitism or more "anti-Netanyahu-ism"? Aren't he and the fundy West Bank Zionists the ones more at fault here? I have to admit to being short on info here.
Nicely written Barbara. I hope you are correct .
Living way outside the liberal bubble , I have seen the most vile bumper stickers when President Obama was in office & read almost daily posts by MAGA Congress critters full of lies & propaganda feeding their base. This has been festering for a very long time & bursting into full fury J6. They seem to be infecting their base for another eruption.
My old pal Jerry Rubin got it wrong. It was "Don't Trust Anyone UNDER Thirty." :-)
I don't trust liars like Trump, but trust is the currency of an open society, and good faith conversion is it's means. Sometimes social movements have to hit us over the head (but civily so) to get out attention, but democracy can't operate without conversation across the divisions of society. I think a free society is wary but honest, and looking to forge trustworthy alliances. See how trust functions in the "GOP" inner circle, they throw anyone and anything under the bus to gain a point. Diversity and even creative controversy rely on a foundational agreement on unalienable rights and duties to each individual and society as a whole. We need better communication between generations and more appreciation for one another's circumstance to forge the solidarity that tyrants fear.
The MAGA/KKK Republicans have abandoned the commitment to the democratic process: one person, one vote, majority rule. They know that they and their values are in the minority, so they will do what they can to seize power, even overturning the U.S. Constitution. Folks, like it or not, we're at war right now. It's time to get involved.
That is why it was so enticing to Steve Bannon when he saw the psychological profiling that Cambridge Analytica developed. He knew the potential it offered - coupled with social media- to fracture trust, clarity, and conversation. He saw that you could tear down a wall of resistance to your worldview by dissolving the mortar of trust, before the bricks even realized how important the mortar was. So here we sit; a wobbly wall, with a manufactured storm of BS pummeling us.
Perhaps every aspect of government need some kind of "explainer" to describe what they do and why, with points off for puffery. Government is so insinuated into the infrastructure that supports our style of life, that I sure I grasp only a fraction of it. It's fine to be a pioneer and "rough it" if you ave the skills, the temperament, necessity, and a tolerance for risk (no real 911 in the wilderness) and I loved being in wilderness, but living in a complex, mass society is a whole new set of challenges, and a lot of practices that are acceptable on a small scale but don't scale up well, like outhouses, let alone fire protection. As the scale of our society grows, maintaining it becomes increasingly complicated. As our aggregated knowledge grows, we struggle to integrate emerging opportunities with impacts. As we build complexity, otherwise minor failures can magnify knock-on impacts. There is a reason why pilots are obligated to pre-check and monitor every part of the plane. It's the only way a human can fly and maintain reasonable safety.
Yes. An “explainer” and/or a “last mile” grade. What I mean is that ideas can be great on paper, or small scale pilot programs may work, but fail when built out as one-size-fits-all. Taking hard looks at how successful policy is actually implemented (or not) will give us much needed information to improve things. Yes it goes slower. But so far “Go-Fast-and-Break-Things sucks. Also, the money it will save us is no small thing. People respond differently to systems and policies that work. Taking hard, open-minded looks at problems as they actually are delivered at the “last mile” - and fix the broken/redundant/maddening elements , is what adults need to do.
I would hate to think that is true. I have been so disgusted by the old critters who slobber over chump, that I have hoped that the young would not be fooled by the con man caricature
So essentially you're saying "don't trust anyone not of your own generation". Good luck with that. About 50% of Boomers go for DT, of those generations who come after, that figure drops to 10% or so. Who is more trustworthy? Didn't Jerry Rubin become some sort of Wall Street investor? I saw him speak in the early 80s and that seemed to be the case. Happy Thanksgiving, TC. I am thankful to you for making me think, (and laugh sometimes too) :)
But when Jerry said that, we were under 30.
My point exactly. And if you look at what he did with his later life before being hit by a car crossing Wilshire Boulevard against traffic - big into the scam of mulit-level marketing and other Yuppie sellout crap from the 80s and 90s - he makes my point even better himself.
And he seemed like such a nice boy.
I laughed out loud.
It always depends upon which side of the divide you find yourself.
It does.
It takes a while to figure that out.
TC, I am 80 and find the notion of wholesale condemnation of any age groups rather unfortunate. As this is also the date of JFG’s brutal murder and recalling that I was 20 that calling out of young people would feel pretty contrary to all that the Kennedy era was about.
We are, as Joyce Vance, writes “in this together.” We better find a way to avoid such alienation as we muddle through these horrific times as a democracy.
We were called upon “to ask not what your country can do for you, but what you can do for your country.” That quote must find its way back in to our spirit and communal outlook.
I'm four years your junior. I got a rush of inspiration when I heard those words from JFK, although in retrospect, I was pretty self-involved. Ultimately we are individuals and we are collectively the country, so the relationship of service cuts two ways. Lincoln's "The legitimate object of government, is to do for a community of people, whatever they need to have done, but can not do, at all, or can not, so well do, for themselves---in their separate, and individual capacities." is a far cry from modern Republicans. He also said "In all that the people can individually do as well for themselves, government ought not to interfere. " which would be more to their liking, but there is a difference between interference and interaction. Democracy is all about interaction.
I really like the logic, tone and values of your comments.
signed, another one "4 years his junior".
Kennedy's words should give us pause. Stop and think about how well they were received. That was leadership at its best. Kennedy was a flawed president. They all are. We all are. We will never know how good or bad he ultimately would have performed. But he did set in motion some extremely important principles - as well described in today's letter about Ole Miss.
Then flash forward to Carter asking for a tiny sacrifice during an energy crisis and we see how we had already jumped on the "me" train. Kennedy's "we" train is how a civilized and socially compassionate society functions. I should add that the single most consistent and eloquent voice for that "we" train" right now is President Joe Biden.
All aboard!
Nicely said, thanks, J L.
That quote is the best legacy from Kennedy. Repeat your last paragraph ad nauseam.
Sadly, the cult thinks they are making America great again (well, some do) when they are just hating Dems.
Hi John, your reply came to me. TC will probably see it. He is 79. I do not believe TC was condemning any age group. If we think back to our early twenties, i remember how sure I was in what I believed, as a well educated young man and I was very active politically. Looking at what TC quoted from Rubin, perhaps we should look at ourselves, in that context.
You and TC are a few years older than me, but do we trust ourseleves now?
An example of TC's point is the San Gabrial Valley Progressives, who invited me to join prior to the 2016 election. They were a group of young Berniecrats, who I could not get a sraight answer out of, as to who they voted for, but I believe many such, all over the country could not morally justify voting for Clinton. and either did not vote or voted third party and, as a result, were a factor in giving us the T-rump.
Intelligence does not an indicator of knowledge. Expeience is. Perhaps TC was referring to that. You say you are 80. I think, by your education, you should understand this.
I would suggest you read TC's Substack. It is quite good and informative.
I was a Berniecrat (though this is my first encounter with the term). I was an alternate delegate for Bernie who emphasized the role of unregulated money in a large array of current problems. I don't think Bernie got a fair enough shake from the Democratic Party, but in the end he and I supported Hillary as the the last candidate standing who could stand up to a wannabe despot.
The thing about voting that I don't see discussed enough is the responsibility that goes with the choice. Bad choices may or may not impact us (or more accurately, we may be less aware of how they impact us unless it's directly) but odds are high that careless or neglected choices will impact those already most deprived most of all. Immigrants whose children were taken, (and a large number still not reunited with them) endured that. Thousands of COVID victims who would logically have be saved from an early death with better prevention regimes endure it. Victims of rising hate crime and those in fear of such crimes endure it. The list is long. A vote is not a personal statement so much as a strategic choice of a probable future for the many, as well as one's self.
I suspect there was a touch (well, maybe a slap) of irony intended by TC (as evidenced by his “smile” at the end of his statement.)
I was 4 1/2 on 11/22/62, and our living room was full of between 6-10 adults from our neighborhood, since my folks were the ones with both a TV and who “allowed” smoking inside. (Sidebar: “allowed” is somewhat snarky because they were not 2-3 pack a day smokers). They were both STAUNCH liberals. I was surprised to learn as an adult that my Dad’s sister and her husband (very religious people, which my folks were not) were also very liberal. Mom always bristled at that statement and would mutter “some people’s children...not mine though.”
Well Ransom, I think your second, one line paragraph speaks to my concern. Who are we, in our 70s or 80s, to look to a younger generation rather than reflect on our role? We all play a part in the collective and must build bridges rather than divide or generically call out groups.
As for those who can't offer a straight answer or go on to vote for a third party, they attempt to defy the history of third parties. I think Ross Perot might still hold the record for most third party votes. Yet, the bottom line is that we do, as another writer pointed out, have to take responsibility for our votes rather than throw them away. In 2016 Jill Stein's voters played a major factor in Trump's win. To wit, it boggles my mind that she returns in 2023 and stands prepared to play the same role. Seriously Jill??? Seriously Robert? Seriously Cornell? Seriously Dean?
As for my age, education, or experience, nothing helps me understand the insanity of our moment as we see and hear some pretty abhorrent speech and actions. Yet, I will work to find a path forward that does not disparage those who care about our democracy, but rather seek to understand in order to be understood. It's the best we (I} can do even as I look in the mirror and see a somewhat flawed individual who gives it his best.
Peace and Happy Thanksgiving.
I am 88 ---met JFK at a campaign rally in Salt Lake City when my husband was in grad school. My comment is that we all desperately need to figure out what we can as individuals do for our country.
That seems to me like a very important question, and that asking it, exploring it, and keeping it open seems like a good first step. Perhaps we already know some of the answers. E puribus Unum.
Don't blame only
right wing propaganda for misleading Leftish youth. Yes, one must denounce the policies/actions of the Netanyahu administration supported by the collusion of American Christian Nationalists and Jewish right wing extremists but ... antiSemitism tainting righteous left wing critique of Israeli policy goes back at least to the influence in the 1970s of a PLO flush with money and never careful about antiSemitism putting out slick propaganda exhibitions and bringing in speakers to college campuses and organizing fully paid be hip and party with us trips to Lebanon, Gaza, and the West Bank *and* the influence on the left of Louis Farrakhan's NOI virulent antiSemitism. I recall early 1980s protests about US policy in Central America and seeing supporters of the PLO and NOI selling copies of the Russian antiSemitic screed The Protocols of the Elders of Zion.
Thank you for reminding everyone of the pernicious propaganda of the PLO. I was a student in Dublin, Ireland in 1977 and saw first hand, some of the posters you describe on bombed out building sites in the North, specifically Belfast. The PLO trained the Provisional wing of the Irish Republican Army in terrorist actions and then layered virulent anti-semitic ideas on an already explosive situation. One of the ugly back stories of that long-festering war allegedly based on religion - not.
I have no ideas about how to aid diplomatic efforts to end the endless war in the Middle East. But those of us who live outside the daily pain and terror on both sides need to educate ourselves deeply before wading into the policy end of the pool.
ThankYou very much for your contribution to the discussion.
I saw these poster exhibits and heard such speakers on the campus of Southern Illinois University - Edwardsville in around 1978-9.
Yes, IRA support for the Palestinian cause goes back to the British occupation of Palestine. (Seeing England as a shared enemy also involved shared IRA and Palestinian support for Nazi Germany.) Also, one ought not elide the fundamental unmitigated antiSemitism of Catholic creed at the time.
Traditional Christian antiSemitism also plays into Louis Farrakhan's personal history as well as the wedge his NOI antiSemitism has driven between Black and Jewish progressive activists.
James Baldwin in a 1962 essay recalls the religious creed based antiSemitism of the church he grew up in. But in a 1967 essay he says Blacks are not antiSemitic as such, but resent Jews because they are White.
Of course, as Jews, we're never white enough for some and always too white for others. But when effectively the KKK and NOI make common cause - it gets dicey.
It all gets complicated.
What gets lost in the confusion, is legitimate critique of Israeli government racist right wing religious extremist policy under increasingly unjust and unjustifiable Netanyahu administrations. Culminating in Netanyahu's current government which has elevated Jewish terrorists - designated as such by previous Israeli administrations - to official office.
https://www.palestineposterproject.org/poster/plo-ira-one-struggle
https://foreignpolicy.com/2010/06/23/why-the-irish-support-palestine-2/
https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/1962/11/17/letter-from-a-region-in-my-mind
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Negroes_Are_Anti-Semitic_Because_They%27re_Anti-White
Please don’t lump all of today’s liberal youth into this category. My liberal youth grandson could out debate many people on today’s political climate and everything I hear from his group is clear thinking, investigation and critical thinking. Your words are exactly why they have zero respect for people that can teach them from their own experiences. You’ve dismissed the future of this country because of a poster you removed and attributed to a group without any facts. Trust me, there are conservatives in your liberal enclave as well as radicals your very own age.
I'm sorry Tina, but "Biden and the Democrats" are listening to you. I'm sorry that you don't feel that way. There are many things I'd like to see the Biden administration do differently. There are many things I think the Obama administration could have done differently. However, as proven in the 2016 election, a vote for a 3rd party candidate is essentially a vote for Trump. I wish it were otherwise. I wish a vote for a 3rd party candidate would send a message to Biden and associates. Please reconsider.
Jared Huffman is now my representative. My former representative was Adam Schiff. I have been very disappointed in both of their responses to the slaughter of Palestinians by the Israeli government and West Bank settlers. But I do have to put in a word for today's liberal youth. Yes, at this moment, SOME of them are reacting to those injustices with B&W rhetoric that is of the moment. I have faith that a year from now they will have matured to the point where they will be able to clearly foresee the consequences of their choices.
The NYT did a good piece defining what a liberal is and how it differs from being a progressive. I suggest Tina fits the definition of a liberal and authors of the poster that of a progressive .. the two are similar but different.
Tina - you are correct. So many have no historical knowledge or critical thinking skills or any idea about civics, government, sociology, etc., etc., etc.. They are comfortable being led by their 'influencers'. It is sickening, dangerous and scary.
Well you did the right thing, in my opinion, by taking down the homemade sign. But, you might be underestimating those diesel truck drivers. As I have said in other posts, we cannot and should not make sweeping generalizations about any people.
Yes! We should be concerned about people posting or promoting what feels good to them but probably lacks a depth of understanding. To that end, I am convinced we need to support those who are trying to find peace wherever and whomever they may be. Everything I have seen or read suggest not all are seeking peace but many are.
I believe the Biden Administration with Anthony Blinken leading the way is working very hard to find or create paths forward. I cannot second guess those efforts but rather can hold peace in my heart and community.
Very dangerous indeed, but please consider this: the key issues that are “personal” to the youth if America are and will be next November: 1) protection of abortion rights from the Republican threat of a nationwide ban; 2) adoption of strong gun safety legislation to protect America’ youth and everyone else of a Republican movement across every state to enable everyone to buy dangerous guns without background checks etc; 3) essential new laws to fight dangerous climate change which threatens every young person’s future; and 4) a new push by Republicans to ban condoms supported by Republican Speaker Mike Johnson! I don’t think what’s happening in Israel is as important and impactful to young voters as the those four front and center nationwide threats by a Republican president, senators and House members?
So well stated. Thank you for expressing how I feel about the craziness of today’s youth. They are following a very dangerous propaganda.
Do you live in Marin? I don't know of another county in CA where we throw around the word "bubble."
yes.
I was 9, and like you, will never forget that day and the week that followed. But I had been too young to have been aware of 20,000 troops --- 20,000!!!--- being sent to Ole Miss to enforce the law. It truly boggles the mind. The moral courage of JFK and RFK was truly amazing (and MLK Jr.).
I was 19 and working in San Francisco. At noon I went for a walk and saw the newspaper headlines. I was so shocked and still recall that sick feeling inside. What especially haunted me was Mrs. Kennedy’s words about letting them see what they did, with his blood caked all over her pink suit. Of course, no internet then, just TV. And then two days later Jack Ruby (a nightclub owner) killed Lee Harvey Oswald on live TV which I saw.
I was 12 years old, in my 7th grade class when our teacher announced JFK’s death.She burst into tears and sent us home. I picked up my things and started walking home when I heard a male kid from behind me say “Yay, that n***er lover is dead!”. Now where did you think he heard it from? I ran home and locked myself in the bathroom, refusing to come out. I just knew that Khrushchev and the Russians would take over our country. I was naive but also petrified. My parents talked me out of unlocking the door and then explained to me how government works. The next 3 days were spent watching CBS News with Walter Cronkite. What got me the most was the funeral procession. That, I will never forget.
Here is Rob Reiner's new series on why and how President Kennedy was assasinated.
https://youtu.be/NaL9oHh7nPc?si=xAmyWsdXDwtDM4qx
I was 14 and in English class and we all started crying and then I missed the school bus that was taking us home early and then finally Cronkite.
I felt that sick feeling too - along with feeling lost, without a leader. We had just gone through the Cuban Missile Crisis and had been traumatized by that. Now, we didn't have that man to protect us against the Russians.
Now, we don’t have that man to protect us against the CIA. Fify.
And it was the bumper sticker spreading hatred but it was the age before the internet. And then there was like today—the endless conspiracy theories.
60 years ago now. Thanks Heather a bone chilling alarm bell from our shared history.
I was in sixth grade, coming back to class from recess. Students were whispering. Mrs Gillingham stood up and told us that the president had been shot, and that we should all pray for him. It was the first time I ever heard the word prayer in a public school - so it really caught my attention. Just as she finished saying that the classroom PA system crackled to life and a TV journalist said “The President is dead.” We were all sent home and as I walked home, my 11-yo brain knew that this was something so important that I was unable to understand it.
My sister was 4 yrs old and it is one of her most vivid memories as a young child. I was born afterwards, and remember how my grandparents were still grieving the loss and firmly believed he was murdered by the CIA.
Thanks, Heather for the post. It is poignant and also, as it should, prompts alarm bells for our current time.
Me too - I was in third grade and remember seeing that murder and telling my mother with amazement that I saw it.
I was a few days shy of turning 10, preparing for my birthday party. Upon hearing the news, we cancelled my party. I knew nothing about what being the President of the United States actually meant. All I knew was that the leader of our country was killed, and that I was very sad about it.
... as well as that of LBJ !!!
I was 10, fifth grade. Vivid memory of my classroom, another teacher entering the room crying, speaking quietly to my teacher, Mr. Grubb, in front of the silent class. Her leaving in quiet tears, and Mr. Grubb turning to us to say the president has been shot, that we’d be going home early and our buses would be out front. At home, our b&w TV was on Walter Cronkite for days; saw Ruby shoot Oswald; the funeral procession; learning words I’d never before heard, like “caisson.” When I come across that word, I immediately remember the b&w TV screen, the dark, majestic horse with its saddle on backwards. There is nothing else in my childhood memory, or in the 50 years of adult memories, that is comparable to Nov. 22, 1963, and those days that followed.
Thank you Karen. You and I are the same age. My thoughts echo yours completely. I had not known these background details until reading this piece today. Very sobering. We have come a ways but have so far to go.
I am similarly astounded by the idea of 20,000 soldiers in Mississippi - it must have felt like a new Civil War. This newsletter is so great for giving us this kind of historical context.
I hadn't realized that either. His name was prominent in the news, though.
The segment of the population that promotes violence still exists today! It is just shameful and reflects terribly on our nation!
The "poorly educated" have bred like rabbits and the darkness of ignorance has spread through the heart and soul of our country like stage 4 cancer.
I hold the cowardly media partially responsible.
Troll me thinks. But I will respond in case I am wrong. The poorly educated are most of our youth now. Years of rediculously testing them instead of actually helping them learn to think! It's been decades of a war to kill our federally funded education system . Why? By whom? The answer seems abundantly clear in light of our bought and paid for Supreme Court, our Congress filled with angry imbeciles, also bought by the obscenely wealthy. It appears to be the same racist, hate filled power structure explained here in this post that killed a President, his brother and Dr. King, the most famous but also others, killed or imprisoned trying to make a better USA and indeed
better world. 60 years and still the haters control so much and all based on racism. Yes , the media is cowardly but that is a more recent development as all have been bought and are now controlled by just a few MEN.
As to "breeding like rabbits" you show yourself to think you are above the human condition. I wonder, have you supported birth control efforts in your community? Do you support health care for all? You sound much like someone who has never gone without these most fundamental human needs. Lucky you. Don't like what you see?
VOTE and help others do so. Help make love and compassion prevail instead of blaming the victims of this never ending nightmare.
Thank you! I thought Terrie's comment was highly offensive. I was going to respond, but you did a great job of identifying the problem and the solution. "Vote and help others do so........"
In our current day society it is too easy to point in one or two directions- education or media, culture wars or sound bites fall as shallow calls to recognize there are many reasons for the divisions and misunderstandings of our country.
It seems we would be better served to step back, look at our dilemma from 30,000 feet and from the vantage point of our own communities to find ways to heal and move collectively to a more informed and engaged loving demeanor. Let’s work to restore faith in our fellow citizens and institutions by taking small steps to better educate and converse with one another.
Might we seek peace and a better civic outlook, actions, and solutions?
Yes the lowered quality of public education which should have focused on critical thinking skills…instead we got the competition in the testing testing and more g-d testing.
@Tamera
Honestly, liberals carry MUCH of the blame for the state of education.
With the best of intentions, we have emphasized teaching tolerance & acceptance, promoting self-esteem, removing stratification into talented vs struggling classes.
And it's nice to see how comfortable my daughter is around handicapped, trans and minority kids. There is so much less bullying. And I never see her up late at night crying that she still has an hour of homework left. But it's really frightening that she doesn't know that Africa isn't a country and that she has read less than a dozen text-based books cover to cover in the last five years.
Unfortunately, a lot of them are highly educated.
It is easy in our "rifted" country (beyond divided!) to respond emotionally to people we consider different from ourselves, but it is not helpful to "sniff down" at people we do not understand. I am now 71. Due to my father's civil engineer position that involved overseeing projects from start to finish all over the country, I lived in 13 different places in the US by the time I graduated from high school. From North Carolina to Maine, from Massachusetts to Washington and Alaska, and Midwestern states as well, I learned that there are pockets of hate fueled by stereotypes everywhere. I think the experience taught me to avoid stereotypical thinking (when self aware enough to recognize I am doing it) and to avoid making assumptions about an individual's behavior or attitudes.
There is some brave media out there, too. Sometimes branded "alternative." I think Fox News is guilty of many journalistic sins, and mass corporate media in general falls short of greatness. But the ugly, even crazy groups in our society are, perhaps, more a reflection of our violent nature, our violent history that we were not taught in even the very best schools.
I’m guilty of having a condescending attitude towards those who espouse the extreme right politics! You’re probably right in that that’s not a “reuniting“ strategy! But, the right wing leader needs to shut down his negativity too! We’ve had enough conspiracy theories and MAGA lies for a lifetime!
@Terrie -
Surely there's SOMEONE to blame. An 'other' unlike us 'good people', blameless and honest and full of love for our nation. Sure, we hate them, but we're good. They're bad. And they're trying to destroy our nation.
But, truly, someone from either side could read the paragraph above and know that it applies to them.
Fear causes a need to blame someone, a hatred for the cause of the fear. Hatred creates people who should see themselves as one group, to see themselves as enemies.
The only way forward is to acknowledge that we one nation, with MANY of the same goals. Democrats are not nearly as scared and desperate as Republicans because our liberal media makes money from making us feel superior while conservative media makes money from terrifying their readers that their morality and country are under attack by us.
Every time a Dem gets angry or acts superior, we widen the gap that we should be bridging. We re-enforce the core Republican message that we are their enemy and their way of life is under attack and they had better elect whoever will stick it to liberals the hardest. It's life or death.
I totally agree, Mr. Wilkins, and it really does reflect terribly on our nation. The enormous number of these kind of people is truly frightening.
Violence has always been popular and the bane of humanity's existence. Will we ever learn? It's a path to extinction.
I was 8 and remember the shock and disbelief on my parents faces, and how, as Susan does, it was on the TV endlessly. We simply must find a way to transcend the racism and violence lest it destroy us all.
Cynthia, I was also 8 when JFK was brutally murdered, When my Father picked me up from school he had the radio on in our car and the announcer on the news bulletin made the announcement that the President was dead. I asked my Father, '' President Kennedy in not really dead is he??'' My Father replied, '' i am afraid so, son.'' Even though i was just a little boy, i was astonished and very saddened by that.
I was barely two. But even I remember sitting around the TV while my parents were talking about something serious. One of my first vivid memories is watching a little boy salute his dad’s coffin. I was of course much older when I understood what I’d watched. I was in Ft Worth but my parents were from Illinois. They didn’t have the Southern outlook. Being in Ft Worth now is a nut country on a whole other level!
Me, too, Susan-I remember my mom crying and the tv coverage. I was 3 1/2-it’s my earliest memory. It left such an impression on me-and yes, it is a sobering thing to hear the calls for violence, but perhaps even more terrifying is the nonchalance and lack of empathy exhibited by the GOP in the wake of those calls. Peace be yours.
Susan, I remember far too well what Kennedy faced back then. I was 14 living in an Oklahoma town (Sulphur) that still enforced its segregated water fountains in the public library. There were two fears: 1) that Kennedy would secretly turn over the running of the country to the pope; and 2) that Kennedy (and his brother) would force the country to address its treatment of blacks. The hatred that welled up when confronted with desegregation went underground, only to return as a reaction to our first black president. You’re right—fear and hatred are a dangerous mix.
I was 8, in third grade. If I remember correctly, we spent the rest of the school day watching the news on the tv - perched on one of those "audio-visual" carts each classroom had, but rarely put into use.
Sixty years later, I thought to myself after reading this letter, one rarely anticipates an event like that occurring, but when it does, you realize; Ah, of course, it was inevitable. We haven't reached the 2nd civil war stage of the current cycle of violence, but we are certainly in it, and at this point, more violence - perhaps that 2nd civil war - seems inevitable.
With that dark thought in mind, wishing you all a peaceful, loving Thanksgiving.
I was 6, and like you, will never forget that day. The funeral, seeing Caroline Kennedy, who was my age, and knowing something terribly wrong had happened, as my parents and grandparents were glued to the TV. I remember lying under the piano bench and watching and listening and knowing that something impossibly wrong had just happened.
NY Times article on the film: “The Lady Bird Diaries” on HULU..https://www.nytimes.com/2023/11/14/style/lady-bird-diaries-hulu-lyndon-b-johnson.html?searchResultPosition=2
It will be a welcome companion to the excellent books by Caro on LBJ....that I am listening to on Audible.
I was almost four, and my memory is like yours. Our family had just gotten our first television. It was small, black and white, of course, and sat on a high shelf. I thought there would be shows to watch, but on every channel a flag-draped coffin lay.
I was 6, and it is also one of my earliest memories. We were sent home early from school, and when I got home the house was mostly dark, and my mother was in the kitchen frying something. She shouldn’t have been home as she was a working mother, so something was indeed very wrong. In the den adjoining the kitchen, the television was on as it would be for days.
I was 4 1/2 and remember going in to watch a 2:00 show on TV. The living room had my folks and 5 neighbors crowded in, watching the TV coverage (we were the only family that had a TV and allowed smoking). I was banished to the back of the house with a “Quick Draw McGraw” album for the duration.
Same. I had just turned 4 a month before. I remember my cartoons were pre-empted and my sister came home from (Catholic) school early and very upset. Kennedy's assassination is one of my earliest memories. An introduction to just how crazy this world can be.
I was thirteen and had no sense that such a thing was even possible--that this shiny, elegant President who the whole world loved (I took for granted) had been killed. I didn't know or understand the racial underpinnings of the hatred of Kennedy. Of course, it was wrong to be racist. Everyone knew that! We were a naive generation who had grown up in a country that was convinced of itself and its rightness and, of course, we stood for truth and justice and democracy. That was a long time ago.
I was 4, as well, living in Fort Worth on the edge of chaos but thereafter an increasingly aware on-looker. Officer Tippit, old Oswald Cowtown haunts, Zapruder, "hey didja know...?".
It was a day with global impact but then so small-town local for a child.
My sister was 10 months old, and has a similar memory, although I don't think it affected her the way it did you, as she was too young for that. But she remembers being in front of the TV and some of what she saw.
I was in 7th grade. My teacher as crying and we were dismissed early. I had no idea why at first.
We are still in nut country.
The country is far nuttier today — both in intensity and geographic spread. We can thank the omnipresence of media, professional and less so. Via social media every crazy idea and outlandish lie multiply and reach everywhere instantly.
On a personal note, I can still remember so vividly learning of the news in junior high. Students openly sobbed. This was in Central Florida where the Cuban Missile Crisis was tangible, waves of military planes flying south. At school we had regular drills in "hiding" underneath our small desks as if that would save us from Armageddon. JFK was our hero for defusing the crisis. And then he was dead.
I had a similar experience with the Cuban Missile Crisis only on the West Coast. My Dad was a Navy jet pilot and we had moved from California and were then stationed on Whidbey Island, WA in Oak Harbor. I was 9 years old at the elementary school off base when an announcement came over the loud speaker that President Kennedy had been shot and killed in Dallas. We were stunned and the teacher was crying as were we the students. It was frightening. The bus came to take us back to our base housing and it was a heart wrenching time.
I had just been called out of class by the (high school) school nurse and was being driven home by her. I had had a terrible cough for six weeks which was finally getting better when our imperious family doctor finally decided (after weeks of telling me it was nothing, to take an xray which came back showing pneumonia. I heard on the nurse's car radio that the president had been shot, and then that he was dead. I was stunned. I much admired JFK, who was popular among my classmates.
I was working in London. Yes, we all crowded in fearful silence round a radio on the kitchen table to listen to the leader take us through the Cuba missile crisis. And that day in November people were crying openly in the street, for the loss of hope, for the loss of greatness.
Here is Rob Reiner's new series on the JFK assasination. Some important answers.
https://youtu.be/NaL9oHh7nPc?si=xAmyWsdXDwtDM4qx
I started listening, but, as is always the case with youtube, there are way, way too many words (constant talking) and way too little information (the talking is mostly spurious). The main reason why I love Dr. Richardson's post?. Few words and huge amount of information. All garnered over a 5 minute period of reading.
Mike, I completely agree. Brevity is holy…
Michael, my father-in-law was an Air Force pilot who flew 82 Albatross missions before and during the Bay of Pigs and the Cuban Missile Crisis (earning the highest medal for valor outside of a combat situation then awarded; barely junior to the Bronze Star, which he was awarded for his Viet Nam service) and at the time of JFK’s assassination was in the cadre of Air Force One pilots.
He was home that day, and my wife (then 18 months) and her brother (2 1/2) had been playing in the car and knocked it out of gear, causing it to roll down the driveway. He had gone to the body shop when the got scrambled. He called my mother-in-law and had her take a cab to the shop, get the car and the kids, and get out of DC.
It was interesting listening to him in later years (he hated the Kennedy’s and was a racist a****le to boot) thank about the uncertainty of that day, and his wondering who was behind the assassination.
Thank you for sharing this with us.
"I want them to see what they have done to Jack." Jacqueline Kennedy
A picture tells a thousand words. Trite but true. How about some pictures of the Supremes basking in the sun with their benefactors? And next to that picture, the same judges explaining why their benefactor deserved to have a tax law ruling overturned.
And where are the pictures of Trump's border wall that has been patched over 4000 times since it was installed?
Yes and it’s nuttier
We can think of it as nuttier, but there is method in the madness, and to me it all points to plutocrats, although there seems to be something in many, many people who somehow prefer as stratified, top-down society to the messy but invigorating ferment of democracy. It seems that the plutocrats and the top-downers enable one another. Otherwise, I think humanity would have just said "no" to tyrants eons ago.
It's weird to see hard right wingers making gains in other nations given the historical and current examples of where that leads. It weird that people would kill to try to keep keep an ordinary man of another race from attending a university.
But who had the most to gain from slavery? Who gains most from the "Republican" shift to hard right? Follow the money.
Follow the money indeed. What else could explain how that chainsaw-wielding clown Milei just won in Argentina? What a shame.
A horrible shame. I cry for you Argentina.
Yup.
Holland...........looks like it's going to the far right!
😱😭
Oh no! This is horrible news.
Yes it is.
Just happy Spain has a leftist for a while.
We have 2yrs to go in France and there is a real danger that the Right wing Marine Le Pen will get in BUT I don't see her as dangerous as Trump or many of the other Repubs.
One supposes that Spain still has some memory of dictatorship. I know Occupation still echos in French society. It's seems something of a mystery why we often keep making the same mistakes. France had fascism foisted on them, but you would think they'd want no part of it. Nazis were way unpopular when I was a kid, although fascism masqueraded as aggressive anti-communism; such as the reign Joe McCarthy. Unchecked, unbalanced power, left, right, or whatever, abridged unalienable rights, tends to corrupt.
“I want them to see what they’ve done to Jack”…..Jackie was right about the brutal photos of President Kennedy’s death….and the ‘caked blood’ on her suit…and we REALLY need in the next 11 months to ‘see to it’ that we help US voters to SEE what is at stake in this presidential election! and there should be no ignorance about the price we will pay if Trump and those white supremicists win!
I was a very young sophomore in high school worried about a chemistry test on that day. There was no way to ever erase the image of Jackie in the blood stained pink suit. I think her actions following the assassination, her courage that day in being present at Lyndon Johnson's swearing in, lent legitimacy and almost unbearable dignity to the peaceful transition of power on that plane. Compare that to Trump's mockery of that process, and disdain for our institutions.
Perhaps "seeing what they've done" is what is needed to bend the arc history--the violence done to Emmett Till, to Jack Kennedy, to our children in school shootings, to George Floyd, on January 6. The question is are there enough of us who have eyes that actually perceive the violence and hate and are sickened enough to take a stand?
Georgia, I appreciate your comment but am completely thrown by your words "peaceful transition". Perhaps you meant to say "solemn transition"?
Solemn, definitely, but peaceful for the transition itself, in spite of the horrible act of violence that provoked it, and in contrast to the violence of January 6. That was what I was trying to express. I meant peaceful as in peaceful transition of power which we all believed in back in 1963. It was, back then, what we always assumed would happen in our country. We can assume it no longer.
Agree, Georgia, as in 2020, the 1963 transition was only after considerable anxiety that further violence might prevent it. That calm swearing in of new president was a great relief.
You're killing me!
On the contrary, those of us who still believe in democracy do assume it. We will fight for it. We will die for It.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peaceful_transition_of_power?wprov=sfla1
Amen, Joan!
I remember the events as if yesterday. But this recounting of the hatred against Kennedy was a startling reminder of how the civil rights issue divided our country and lingers to this day.
I'm aware now of how awful and dangerous racism is, but I had little awareness of it, at 10, on that day. I remember speculation about whether Communist Cubans or the Mafia had assassinated JFK, but no talk about racism. The Mississippi story now adds a whole new layer to my memories of that horrible day, particularly since I had spent 5 years of my childhood in Fort Worth prior to that. I was unaware that I was growing up in nut country.
After a period of sanity, the nuts are loose again
I too have never learned that white supremacy was the actual cause of this assassination. It seems that all the talk blaming communists and socialists was just dog whistling to actual racists.
Barbara,
Well from what I've read there were tensions and fears there that day, and the Mississippi thing must have ramped that up considerably, but we still don't know what the cause was even today.
The memory is seared into the brains and lives of those who were alive at that time. Yes, JFK was a young man, but Jacqueline Kennedy was only 34 years old on that day and publicly led this country through an excruciating time of national grief and mourning with unprecedented poise and grace.
I was 13 and in the 8th grade. In many ways, that was when my awakening really began. When I later encountered Edmund Burke's famous admonition, one of my first thoughts was that JFK was indeed a good man who chose to do something. They may have cut him down, but evil has not been triumphant.
I was 14 and in the ninth grade in Manhattan, NY. I will never forget the day and the ride home on the crosstown bus from my high school Julia Richman. People were openly weeping on the streets of New York. No one was home when I arrived to our new apartment on the Upper West Side. I wasn’t sure what to do, so i wandered down to the street and entered a museum on the corner of Riverside Drive and 103rd Street. There was an exhibit of psychedelic art, with music in each room. A strange way to spend the late afternoon in November, 1963. Lady Bird’s memories were very poignant and have affected me deeply. I hope we are wiser now and will work on turning the tide of history. Happy Thanksgiving, 🍁 Heather and Buddy and to all in this vital community.
Well said.... I was in jr high in Portland, ME. Repeating my comment (posted 10 min after your post): "What an incredibly sad day. I was 12 and have never forgotten everyone's disbelief in our junior high (in Portland, ME) when the PA system announced that the President had been shot and that we were to all go home. The enormity of this transformational day... I mark it as a political awareness day for me. Assassinations were (in my mind) a thing of the distant past that had happened to Lincoln. -- I do believe that JFK (maybe) and RFK (definitely) would have been very good if not very great Presidents. On the other hand, maybe LBJ was the only person who could have passed the Civil Rights legislation as President. We will never know. That's how history goes."
Steve, while I don't know a lot about LBJ beyond his reign as a real "operator" as Speaker of the House before signing on to JFK's presidential run, my impression is that Kennedy's assassination gave him a true "cause" in civil rights to fight for, a fight for which he was especially gifted. It was sad to subsequently see his accomplishments substantially undercut by his prosecution of the Viet Nam war, the other legacy from JFK.
Absolutely! I almost included his role in the Vietnam War, but didn't want to detract from his Civil Rights legacy.... and we don't know if Kennedy would have gotten us involved in Vietnam.
I was 13, in junior high school on the opposite side of the country. It was surreal at the time.
Our TV was on all day for the next several days.
I wish we were wiser now.
Still so fresh. Still causes me to tear up, my throat to tighten. I was 14 years old. John Kennedy was my first political campaign. Then came MLK, Robert Kennedy and many others. Our violent country that continues to kill, and kill and kill.
The loss of these three men in the 1960s was really devastating. How would the US be different today had they lived??
Google the song Abraham Martin and John
https://www.google.com/search?q=goodbye+john+goodbye+martin+goodbye+bobby&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en-us&client=safari
Thanks for the reminder about this tribute!
No one old enough to remember can forget the exact moment when they heard the news of John Kennedy’s murder. It is burned so deeply into our memories.
And he did not die in vain, unless we forget what he stood for, and the impetus his death gave to the cause of equal rights.
The ugliness of White Supremacy has never been more apparent than in the last seven years. We cannot afford to forget.
Happy Thanksgiving to all, and let’s give thanks to the sacrifice that John Kennedy (and millions more) made to secure the America we live in today!
Thanks for this. My father was a Republican and didn’t want JFK to reach the presidency. It was the first time I remember hearing about politics. I had no reason to question his opinion.
I was in 4th grade on that horrible day, but only remember wondering what all the fuss was about. We heard about the murder during class. I couldn’t figure out how he got shot in a temple if he was in a car! That’s when I learned the name of another part of my head.
My dad didn’t like JFK, so why were the teachers so upset? I thank subsequent educators for filling in the blanks and that includes HCR, who continues to fill in the blanks and tie events together.
The struggle against discrimination in any form and the tendency for humans to assert tribalism, might continue forever, considering human nature. But I will continue to speak a different truth of human dignity and compassion. To honor my dad who had both. (He was an Eisenhower R.)
Nicely written... thank you.
Yes it was, thank you HCR
The National trauma gave birth to the Conspiracy Theory Industry which continues in Podcasts to this very day complete with teasers to encourage "likes" & inadmissible grifting drivel.
Byan Sean McKown, I can't help but feel amused by your suggestion that the "Conspiracy Theory Industry" was born with Kennedy's assassination. While it was certainly given a jolt and a lot of national attention, the Conspiracy Theory Industry has a much longer history.
I concur Mary Ellen. I should have commented that JFK's murder accelerated the conspiracy theory Industry.
Thank you. I was 10, in fifth grade, when Kennedy was killed. I remember it vividly, and then later on my entire elementary school filing somberly into the auditorium to watch the funeral procession together on a television someone had brought in. But I am white, raised in a predominantly white small rural town, and I had no sense of the civil rights struggle going on, no idea of the reason Kennedy was in Dallas. It’s taken me all these decades since, and listening to smart historians like you, to understand the causes and the contexts for the history I experienced as a child.
Thank you.
Well said, and my experience was similar. I was also 10 and in the fifth grade. In September our teacher had requested an autographed picture of JFK, on behalf of our class and she showed it to us and was very proud of it. We lived in Las Vegas at the time. On that fateful day, I was out at school lunch break and a boy had a transistor radio and heard the news that JFK was shot and several of us gathered around to listen. We were shocked of course. Then I walked back to the classroom and saw the teacher and all of the girls crying. I knew immediately that our President was dead. I'm tearing up just writing this. My parents and I watched the funeral procession on TV with neighbor friends on the 25th. I will never forget John Jr's salute. He was his 3rd birthday.
Kennedy's murder happened 1 year before my birth. Yet today is the FIRST time I learned that his assassination was linked to white supremacy. Our country's teaching of history is severely compromised. I'm disgusted at how much ignorance and bigotry is not only allowed, but actually openly encouraged by certain loud segments of the "humanity for me but not for thee crowd". (And yes, the religious thee is used on purpose.)
You bring a tear to my eyes. I was 10 and in a catholic school. A nun went from class to class reporting that the president had been shot and to stand and pray. I remember so well. I remember the lonely walk home from school that day. Then sitting in front of the family TV with my sister and crying uncontrollably. Mother came upstairs and tried to say something lighthearted but it didn’t work. Then Walter Cronkite looked at the wall clock or maybe his watch and pronounced the president dead. And my days of innocence ended at that moment and I realized that the world I had been born into was a cruel one. And it has only become more cruel as the decades have passed.
Only time I saw Walter Cronkite almost lose composure.
Except for Apollo 13... that was close too.
But he didn’t
No, he didn’t, but his struggle, subtle as it was, to keep his composure was palpable emanating from the TV screen and somehow made the devastating news even more piercing.
I don't know how he did it, but he did as all around him likely wept. You are right, his struggle was palpable.
I was 9 at a Catholic school. Never ever have believed Oswald was guilty. I remember that walk home, so confused, so sad. We will never know who killed President Kennedy.
Here is Rob Reiner's new podcast series about the JFK assasination. He makes the most convincing case I have seen of who really killed JFK and why.
https://youtu.be/NaL9oHh7nPc?si=xAmyWsdXDwtDM4qx
Thank you!
I was 12 at a Catholic school. My girlfriend and I were just walking back to school after eating “uptown” when we heard the news. I think it was particularly resonant in the Catholic community.
I believe it was Oswald. He was unbalanced.
Yes, I was a sophomore at a Catholic Girls High School in San Francisco, in Sr. Agnes' class. Of course Pres Kennedy was adored by the nuns ass the first Catholic President. The principal, Sr. Charlotte, came on the PA system and told us that the President had been shot. We and the adjoining elementary school (boys and girls schools) marched 2 blocks down Fair Oaks St to pray for the President at St. James Church. We were then told the President died. It was a very sad march back to school, where we were dismissed. The next few days were a blur of television news until on Sunday morning, I watched Jack Ruby kill Oswald on national TV. Horrible, horrible times were just beginning.
So vivid. I was same age, recall Cronkite was reading paper copy (from something like the AP wire), that he swallowed and started speaking, glanced up at what I have thought was a wall clock (newsrooms did not exist without wall clocks) when he got to the specific time of death, adding how many minutes ago that had occurred. And he stopped speaking for a moment, gathered himself to go on. No added drama; completely genuine. Mentioned this elsewhere, but the array of memories about Nov. 22, 1963, and the ensuing days = the most detailed, vivid memory of at least my childhood -- among the top ones of my 70-year-old life.
I know. Whether JFK would have used his time well as president, one can never know. But the myth of Camelot and my mother’s absolute admiration of him instilled in me a sense of greatness then sudden total loss. AS I said, his murder ending my brief illusion of rightful purpose, of innocence. It was over. And early rock n roll also died when the Beatles arrived. 1958 through 1963 is the musical song period I enjoy performing.
I was in 1st grade in our one room school in Ontario. Our Teacher Mrs Lee broke the news to us. I still remember the incredible amount of sadness that even we as young Canadians felt about his assassination. We mourned with the USA.
Thanks, very much for your comment, Donna. It makes me wonder what most Canadians think about what is going on now here in the USA with the Fascist GQP and the Mango Monster, Donald TUMP?? I have chatted with a few Canadians recently, and they seem to be very disgusted and angered at what is going on now here in the USA, much like me and the great people on this comment site. Canada is an interesting and fascinating nation to me.
Like so many others, I remember the day with crystal clarity too. I was at boarding school in New Hampshire, and one of my friends give us the news in the hallway upstairs just outside my room. It didn't seem possible. It shouldn't happen in the US! Kennedy represented a better way, and no one really knew Johnson at my school. We were plunged into uncertainty and unbearable sadness as the campus came together to watch the news. Still, after all these years, I still have the dream of a better America. Reading about this tragic event makes me more determined than ever to join others to work for a better county, now and next year.
Yes, I think we all need to get back to that necessary work. Thanks for your comment. I too, still believe in the experiment.
Thank you Jan Tappan... may strength and community devotion support your commitment to creating and supporting the work of making this 2023-into-2024 a better country
I really do wonder sometimes how America would have turned out had JFK not been assassinated. That is a scenario that really does defy my imagination.
… Or imagine how America would have turned out if the majority of voters, not the electoral college, had put Al Gore in the presidency (with a climate change action plan) instead of Bush Jr (with Iraq war, rise of ISIS), or Hillary Clinton (checking Putin) instead of Donald Trump (encouraging racists to come out from under their rock’s, flattering dictators like Putin who felt emboldened to invade Ukraine, attempted coup to undermine US democracy). Americans’ poor choices have led to untold suffering. What’s wrong with these people?
It was the Electoral College, enabled by the Supreme Court that gave us President Bush the second. Gore won the popular vote.
Yep yep yep. President Gore and we would have a wise Supreme Court.
Roger Stone and the Supreme Court kept Al Gore from the presidency. The evil underbelly of the USA. Here is Rob Reiner's new podcast and what, most probably, happened to JFK and why. Very convincing.
https://youtu.be/NaL9oHh7nPc?si=xAmyWsdXDwtDM4qx
Cathy, the last sentence in your comment is the same thing i have asked myself and others the very same question hundreds of times. It seems to me that ''these people'' are horribly brainwashed and pitifully gullible to the extreme.
Absolutely.
JFK, RFK and MLK.... it was a moment in time - we could have gone a different way.
I’m afraid though that the Vietnam war would have ignited nonetheless. The political leaders were all Cold War warriors.
Curtis LeMay and the joint chiefs of the defense department wanted to bomb and invade Cuba during the missile crisis. President Kennedy and his administration rejected their advice and avoided war. JFK was a negotiator. The assassinations of Jack Kennedy and Yitzsak Rabin were coups we still suffer from.
That's what Rob Reiner's new podcast on the assasination is revealing:
https://youtu.be/NaL9oHh7nPc?si=xAmyWsdXDwtDM4qx
I agree Bill. People forget that Kennedy was president when we first became involved in Vietnam. For a long time, only young people were against that war.
Kennedy was the guy who got us deeper into Vietnam. He got publicly humiliated by Krushchev at the Vienna Summit in 1961, came home looking for a way to get "payback." He read the Soviet theory of supporting "wars of national liberation" and determined we would oppose them. That December he ordered 1,500 "advisors" to Vietnam.
And do not fall for the liberal myth that he was shot because he was going to get us out. He had ordered the overthrow of Diem a month earlier, and went along with Diem's assassination by the ARVN. He was the cold warrior's Cold Warrior. I've written two books about my war, and in none of my research did I turn up anything about him ending our involvement. But the Kennedy Machine did a good job of putting all the blame on LBJ, the guy who had to be dragged kicking and screaming into each and every "escalation" the Kennedy New Frontiersmen (led by Strange McNamara and McGeorge Bundy, JFK's two most trusted and influential guys) came up with.
If you want to listen to a shocking podcast listen to "Nixon's War" and you hear live tapes of LBJ, Nixon and Kissinger. Nixon could have ended the VN War soon after he entered office in 1970, instead he waited until 1973 and killed a lot more Americans and Vietnamese. Oh, and sweet Kissinger is still alive!!
Nixon kept LBJ from ending it in 1968. Kissinger is a war crinimal
I totally agree!! He's the worst - trump is the worst but Kissinger is running neck and neck with a whole band of incorigables.
Good points.
Thanks for the reminder. But wasn’t Kennedy smart enough to learn anything from Cuba?
You'd have thought he'd have learned everything he needed to know about Vietnam when he visited the place in 1953 as a new Senator and came back to tell people the French were going to lose and deserved to and we had a big problem because we were seen as the supporters of the French - which we were. But 9 years later he forgot everything. Kennedy was not the "deep thinker" they tried to portray him as. "Profiles in Courage" was ghost written from his college term paper. And his idea of courage was the Republican Senator who cast the deciding vote not to impeach Andrew Johnson, who deserved impeachment then as much as Trump does.
JFK was the first politician I worked for, hanging door knockers for him in 1960 when I was in high school. I actually believed his BS inaugural address. My own experience of Vietnam, and then researching it nowadays when you can get access to all the stuff that used to be classified, I've lost all good thought of him. He wasn't even close to what people thought - and some still think - he was.
TC,
Nobody is perfect. Not JFK for sure. Vietnam was a HUGE money maker for both military contractors and elected officials who were continuously paid well to authorize more weapons during the Vietnam war. Many a congressman got super rich off of the military contractor lobby.
It is not really JFK who was at fault. It was/is our entire governmental system which is, honestly, fundamentally flawed.
If you or I were in Congress or the Presidency, all day long, every day, rich contractors would be in our office attempting to buy us. Since that really can change the trajectory of one's life (big money that is), you and I would probably have bombed Vietnam for 30 years as well.
We would be hugely rich as a result.
Our government, which, is really just a big House of Prostitution where our "Congress people" (the prostitutes) are paid very well to do what they are told by contractors and lobbyists (the johns).
Don't blame JFK for being human. Me n You? We would be doing the same thing.
TC, what do you think of Rob Reiner's new podcast series on JFK and the assasination?
https://youtu.be/NaL9oHh7nPc?si=xAmyWsdXDwtDM4qx
I liked his vision for space, but knew little of Viet Nam. I still blame McNamara. At least later…
Thanks again.
Attributed to the military industrial complex as Eisenhower labeled it ... the lobbyists proliferated.
RFK and MLK also.....
Many of us at Penn walked dazed and weeping in the streets that day and the next, and then the assassin was murdered while in police custody, on live tv. That day began the long painful downfall into the chaos of Viet Nam and the end of feeling safe when on the streets. The catafalque, Jaackie's removal her ring to place it on her dead husband's finger, all haunted us and still do haunt us to some extent.
Does this level of stoic dignity still exist? Now there is Marjorie...
Jill and Joe . . . err . . . President Biden
Say it often, say it loud, even for those on the left and right who refuse to hear it.
I was a college freshman sitting in a world history class when someone stuck his head in the door and said, “Kennedy just got shot!” The entire class was in a stupor. There was a history professor named Kennedy and that created some initial confusion! But as we learned from our professor, Dr. Eugene Huck, it was President Kennedy. He quickly dismissed class! Many students and teachers crowded into the student lounge to watch the proceedings on television! That day is embedded in my memory forever!
My Father had just let me in the car in front of Central High and Elementary School when i heard the news that Pres. Kennedy had been shot and killed 60 years ago. I was in the 3rd grade and only 8 years old. I will never forget that horrible day in our history.