311 Comments

Quiverin' Qevin can't drive the Republican clown car 10 feet in a straight line because the Fwee-dumb Kawkuss in back will be throwing their feces out the windows at passers-by and taking turns grabbing for the steering wheel.

For two years we get to point at these clucks and say "This is why you cannot have nice things."

Here's a good laugh from the New York Post today, on page 26, upper right corner, three column inches:

FLORIDA MAN MAKES ANNOUNCEMENT

“With just 720 days to go before the next election, a Florida retiree made the surprise announcement Tuesday night that he was running for President.

“In a move no political pundit saw coming, avid golfer Donald J. Trump kicked things off at Mar-a-Lago, his resort and classified-documents library,” .

“Trump, famous for gold-plated lobbies and for firing people on reality television, will be 78 in 2024. His cholesterol levels are unknown, but his favorite food is a charred steak with ketchup.”

“Trump also served as the 45th president.”

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Nov 17, 2022·edited Nov 17, 2022

That's the real deal article under the headline Been There, Don That! Hilarious. Murdoch finally turned on his golden boy. Ouch. That's gotta sting. Lawrence O'Donnell says on his show tonight that's the best thing he's ever read in that paper and it's a masterpiece of prose. What an ego that Trumpty Dumpty keeps on going.

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NO STEERING WHEEL! 'Quiverin' Qevin can't drive the Republican clown car 10 feet in a straight line because...' he doesn't have a steering wheel upstairs.

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Florida Man! This is priceless!

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However, there is another "Florida man" waiting in the wings, perhaps an even more scary one.

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DeSatan is definitely more scary, way farther right, more racist, more bigoted, etc etc. and unfortunately smarter than DJT although thats not much of a compliment. Hopefully his migrant trick will trip him up at some point.

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DeSantis, Rubio, and Scott (Voldemort) are Florida's gift to Fascism. All I can say is we'll keep trying to turn this red state blue.

On the positive side, the MAGAts are slowly moving back into the woodwork as the lights are being turned on them. They'll come running back out at any sign of darkness, of course, but any respite from their vitriol is a gift. At least on this little island, they attack anyone they see as "other," and their basis for that appellation is entirely based on their personal viewpoint. I've been called a "f*cking socialist" simply for using the plastic glove at a gas station.

They were completely out of control, so any lessening of their confidence in being protected from responsibility is a relief.

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He is all of the above, but he seems to be lacking in the charisma department, and charisma seems to make racist bigotry slide more easily down the gullet of more people. I hope enough USians stay focused on this for the next two years, in spite of our storied short attention spans.

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Nov 17, 2022·edited Nov 17, 2022

I agree, Sally, and not just in Florida. I think there are a couple of very, very scary dudes out there. I am; horrified to see Mike Pence emerging as some kind of victim/hero of January 6. Now there is one dangerous man--far to the right, quiet, presentable. What a world! Thanks for putting this thought out there

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Thank you to all who participate in discussions like this. I learn every day from reading the comments and finding reasonable observations and forward thinking. In re: to Pence, I've always considered him dangerous. There are pockets of wealthy donors he visits in this community , wealthy Republican Catholics, Opus Dei corporate types. They are likely all over the world.

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That news doesn't surprise me at all. The speech he made to the Federalist Society sometime in the last year or so that will be found easily on YouTube is too creepy to describe. I can only repeat what I've said before--I felt like I was watching a clip from "The Manchurian Candidate." And this is a man who, on the one hand is reported to be unwilling to have lunch with any woman unless his wife (who he calls 'Mother') is present and, on an awful "other hand" has spent a good chunk of his political life supporting "conversion camps" (any mention of which has vanished from sight, of course). All I can say to all that is, 'No comment.' The only reason to bring it up is that, historically, candidates who bring a certain kind of psychological damage seem to be especially frightening.

But the association with groups like Opus Dei and the Federalist Society (apparently common among all these alt-right types of a certain background and income) is disturbing on its face and every day another Trump-appointee turns up associated with them

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Agree...we can joke around for a bit, but the election numbers are too dang close. RD is the type that will wipe his boots on the public's face.

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He does not have the glittery tv personality facade of #45. Hopefully he cannot charm the cult, though it’s very frightening that 1.5 million Floridians chose him over Crist! 😱 WTF???

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Looks like that part of the public may be laying off glittery and are looking for ruthless. The corporate boards can't wait for him to roll back every restriction preventing their game of risk. I wish they could be satisfied with gambling at the card table...but they can't lie and cheat where there are cameras.

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Yeah, the Don's Minnie Me

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A small m man, to boot.

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ROTFLMAO. The enemy of my enemy is... Murdoch.

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Wow.

“…classified documents library”

Wow.

Let’s see that page number roll back to PAGE 1.

🗽

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Indeed ~ I loved that jab.

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But page 26 (a tiny corner, moreover) was one of the finest parts of the belittlement.

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lol TC ! The piece in the Post didn't escape the attention of late night comedy hosts either ! Count it ironic as well since the 'Post' was previously a total fan of _rump for a long while. Cheers !

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'In the mid-20th century, the paper was owned by Dorothy Schiff, a devoted liberal, who developed its tabloid format. In 1976, Rupert Murdoch bought the Post for US$30.5 million. Since 1993, the Post has been owned by Murdoch's News Corp. Its distribution ranked 4th in the US in 2019.' (Wikipedia)

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A Rupert rag, more partisan than Pecker’s National Enquirer, which let chump choose which headline slandered Hillary the most. So I heard. God knows where

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And it’s inevitably the rag staring me in the face when standing in a grocery checkout line. I

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It's a remarkable day when you can't tell the New York Post from the Borowitz Report, when satire merges with a reality that those who get their news from the Post have never before recognized.

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Nov 17, 2022·edited Nov 17, 2022

The NY Post’s “Florida Man” article is, indeed, one for the ages, and, ya gotta wonder if Rupert will suffer any Trumpian Traumas, etc. But, now onto Reality:

It is now a Numbers Game and a “No Vacation from Placation” Game.

The Democrats will “control” the Senate at least in the similar way they did in 2021 & 2022 - with having to contend with Joe Manchin and Kyrsten Sinema. I tend to believe that, in Georgia, Hershel Walker will be defeated, so the Democrats will only need to pacify one of those two (with a projected 51-49 majority). Unless [HORRORS] one or both of them decide to caucus with the Republicans. Bottom line: They still will need to be placated. If both of them require maximum placation and they turn “Republican,” the numbers would remain the same 51-49 (with a Warnock win), but the Republicans would be the 51. YIKES!!

The Republicans will “control” the House, but just as narrowly as the Democrats control the Senate (pretty much). The numbers will probably be pretty close to 220 - 215. In reality that means that there could be three Republican “Manchin-Sinemas” that could be persuaded to vote with the Democrats. (You also have to note that the 220-215 count requires Perfect Attendance, and I don’t think that happens very often.)

What should the Democrats do?

1.). Don’t get too cocky about this 2022 mid-term election. Yes, it wasn’t a Red Tsunami; it was a Pink Tinkle. BUT it wasn’t a BLUE TSUNAMI or even a Blue Tinkle. From what I’ve been able to decipher, there were more Republican votes for Representative candidates than there were for Democratic candidates (and these are NATIONWIDE numbers). Note: My research might be wrong on this, and, of course, the counting continues, but….

2.) Support Joe Biden and Kamala Harris. Biden might stumble and mumble occasionally, but compare that to Trumpty Dumpty. Also compare Biden’s accomplishments to Trump’s and the entire GOP. Biden is strong domestically/legislatively and internationally/diplomatically. Harris is a “typical” Vice President. There are tons of numerous quotes from VEEPS about the job. Truman: “Look at all the Vice Presidents in history. Where are they? They were about as useful as a cow’s fifth teat.” Of course, when FDR died in office, Truman took over. Let’s remember that our Founding Parents WISELY foresaw the possibility of a President not being able to fulfill his/her* duties and made provisions for a rapid replacement. (* Well, “her” was never in the musket sights of our Founders, but that got changed, too.) Yes, Biden is turning 80. He is still functioning/producing, and, to me, he can put together an “centrist” agenda that can get some Republican votes…if we let him.

3.) Priority #1 - Lower Taxes for average Americans. Well, actually, all he needs to do is pass legislation that eliminates many of the Sunset Clauses of the 2017 TCJA that will RAISE the those taxes in 2025. Let Americans look at their Tax Future with assurance of steady tax rates. (After all, American corporations were given PERMANENT tax rates in the TCJA.)

4.) Priority #2 - Incentivize Fossil Fuel Energy companies to Expand Their Energy Futures (ETEF) by helping them erect wind turbines and solar panels on the land that they are currently using/leasing. The Fossils don’t have to be COMPETING with the Greens; they can actually grab some of their profits. Imagine pulling into you local EXXON station and filling up your EV with electric power generated by EXXON MOBIL….

That’s a decent start, anyway.

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The one thing you don't have to worry about is Manchin or Sinema becoming Republicans. Despite the fact they don't have a lot in common with their fellow Democrats, they have less in common with Republicans on the things that do animate hem.

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Yup, Manchin and Sinema may not turn into full-fledged Republicans, but can either be a giant help or a giant pain in what I refer to as Priority #2, which promotes an end to the Fossil vs Green and the advent of Comprehensive Energy Companies. (i.e., EXXON can still make plenty of money selling petroleum, but it can also develop new revenue streams by erecting solar panels and wind turbines (yes, EXXON will get some breaks for those purchases) next to their pump-jacks, etc. Similar arrangements can be made for Peabody Coal, Chevron Natural Gas, etc.

AND, West Virginia could benefit with such partnerships and Arizona sun fields can be creatively brought into some shared partnerships as well.

Think about how this sort of re-thinking of the Fossil/Green debate will revolutionize ENERGY. Yes, we know that fossil fuel resources are limited and the use of those energy sources are harming the planet, but, rather than going with the message of “We Wanna Close Down the Fossil Fuel Industry,” we adopt the message of Energy Companies of the Past, the Present, and the Future and the FEDERAL GOVERNMENT can assist in that process.

The same goes for my Priority #1. That the Sunset Clauses for average Americans were out there in the first place should be pretty obvious: Just before the 2024 Presidential Election, Republicans were planning to extend the TCJA tax breaks and take credit, once again, for cutting taxes for average Americans. The Democrats (Joe Biden) should propose the elimination of those sunset clause NOW and beat them to the punch. Can you imagine ANY Republican voting against Biden on that on?

Finally, yes, there will be ENDLESS investigations in the House. Let ‘em happen. And have Biden make a statement NOW about this and indicate that when folks are asked for documents and asked to testify, they should do so willingly and promptly. (He can also make a snide comment or two about how the Republicans had a hard time answering House investigations….). AND, the Senate should take up the House J6 investigation. NOW. They can do that.

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There you were in my mind as Nancy Pelosi told us of her decision to stay in the House, although not in a leadership position. She remains a leader. Your thoughts commemorating Nancy Pelosi's role in the life of our county and at this moment are eagerly awaited.

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Gosh, thanks for the summary of what we've been talking about for months. Invaluable.

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Delectable! 3 column inches on page 26...

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I thought this was a joke and I’m spot on!

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Nope - it's real.

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It does seem like something straight out of The Onion, though :)

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Yes, a real joke. You have to laugh.

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And the great article about the "Florida retiree" appeared on p. 26 of the paper.

The other great news was that so many people left his latest rally early that they barred the doors and actively told people they couldn't leave. Bad time for a (dumpster) fire.

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🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 Thanks for this! I had seen the headline posted, but not the entire article. Absolutely love it!

Sadly Murdoch appears to be switching his allegiance to DeSantis, a full-fledged fascist, so with Murdoch's power unbroken, I don't think we're in any better shape.

Nevertheless, a good laugh helps a lot! 😄👍

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Please post a link!😂

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NY Post 11/16/22 p 26 on "Florida Man Makes Announcement:" https://twitter.com/SpiroAgnewGhost/status/1592965293198168064?s=20&t=Nn5ZTf2bYf3qZO_a8KVdfw

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He-he-he!! Nothing spared. I love "Florida retiree".

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Here is another "Florida Man" news story from the Post

https://nypost.com/2022/11/03/homeless-florida-man-jonathan-davis-stabs-hiker-who-befriended-him-on-trail-police/

Sounds similar to Donald Trump.

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How fast Rupert has become our hero…

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Agree. whatever makes the $$$$.

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#45 would be flattered. But just an ordinary “man”… hahaha… a gut punch for that megalomaniac. Whoever planned that NYP piece knew exactly how to hit him where it most hurts him

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"Served"? Cosplayed? Cratered?

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Not for the first time, I say T___p is finished. This time, however, it’s because he has become so borrrringgg.

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Rupert needs to be tarred and feathered

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After a visit to the woodshed for a whoopin’.

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Love is love!

Love President Joe Biden!

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"...twelve—but only twelve—Senate Republicans have voted with all the Democrats to advance a bill to protect marriage equality for same-sex and interracial couples."

Honestly, how can this even be uttered in conversation, let alone being voted on when you have two out of nine SC justices and the VP of the US in interracial marriages?? The very same people who explode against the mere whisper of gun control want to pass laws governing what goes on in people's bedrooms, let alone their very own bodies. The hypocrisy is truly indigestible....

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One can choke to death on it

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I too love and appreciate our president, Joe Biden. He is a good man with a good heart.

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The new Defense of Marriage Act is a step forward for democracy. The House brouhaha that we are expecting may well turn out to be quite the contrary - a two-year circus. Meanwhile I’m hoping for Rev Warnock’s win on 6 December and encouraging everyone who values this new edition of Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. to make a donation or write GOTV postcards. There are donation sites that multiply small donations several times.

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I am about to write 200 GOTV postcards to Georgia. I'm beyond tapped out for contributing money.

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postcard writing is so therapeutic! I am taking them to our Thanksgiving family week! Hoping that I can talk all generations into doing postcards instead of a puzzle this year.

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My situation exactly. I shamelessly asked friends for some stamp money.

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Good for you! I only accepted a list for 50 from my women’s club. But I think buying the postcards and stamps is my financial contribution. I’m tapped out on the money! How many texts can you get in one day asking for five dollars?!

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I don't ask for money. I ask them to vote, and explain why. Better use of resources and better response. As for me, somebody texts me asking for money, they get blocked. If we can get people concerned enough and have the inclination, they will seek out ways to contribute. But pushing them too hard for money risks losing their vote.

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Same here. At the sight of the words "chip in" I tend to click on that little x in the top right hand corner.

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...and why would you want to contribute more money to the bane of our existence, the fueling of endless tweets, texts, emails & unsolicited phone calls?

Isn't this exactly what we deplore about what the Citizen's United decision brought upon us. How many of us have had their minds changed by such a barrage of political advertising?

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Maybe we can undo Citizens United and contribute on tax forms. Until then the Democrats, having fewer large donors, have no choice but to turn to small donors. Republicans have small donors, large donors, large tax cuts AND Citizens United. Money should not be the deterring factor in democratic elections.

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*determining factor (my phone is still learning words).

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Same here. I'm just waiting for the postcards that I ordered; money-wise, I'm tapped out.

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Perhaps post cards from someone you know DO make a difference; one can certainly hope!

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I get so many Warnock e-mails asking for donations. How do I choose?

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Use the ActBlue site. You will receive email receipts. I've used it for several years - multiple donations to several candidates. Be sure NOT to use the "split donation" option. Then your donation gets split 50/50 between Warnock and the Democrat Party.

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Doesn’t stop the emails. I get at least 2 hourly.

Thanking all the gods never gave them my phone #

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I donated to Rev. Warnock before the election and again for this runoff. Thanks to Citizens United, there will never be enough funding from us, the Voters.

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Ideally the Supreme Joke would overturn Citizens United, but that will never happen. We need some Super PACs on the Democratic side.

https://mdfulk.medium.com/on-establishing-a-us-climate-oriented-political-action-committee-675359986aa7?source=friends_link&sk=7d0cbb0b1e438a12ef1ea2529004b139

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Remember Fievel's song....https://youtu.be/cuclz7fVOYY

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Never say never again! I love it. A “New” slogan!

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We need to expand the court.

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Until and unless we expand the court, Roe and other people friendly rulings will be nixed faster than states will be able (or willing) to nullify them. Look at Texas and Florida for examples of what continuing with the court as is.

I prefer expanding to age limits having seen too many instances of wisdom coming with age. And wisdom is what we need in judges.

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NEVER

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I finally set up a special email address/box that I use only for candidate & political contributions. That way, I only look at them when I am planning/sorting contributions and they're not filling up my regular inbox every time I turn around. Otherwise it's a full-time job!

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Great idea. It is to late for many of us. It's like locusts. Or roaches.

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Plan to unsubscribe from all, another big job.

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I did that also in 2020. Even deleting from my regular inboxtook too much time

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Very smart...wish I had done that too. Doomed to the incessant email bombing by the Dems. Sigh

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I’d say give directly to his campaign.

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That's what we did.

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Warnock has direct appeals; also the DCCC has appeals for him. If you are giving through Act Blue, no worries.

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But still, watch for those appeals which split the donation between the candidate and the Party. In Georgia, Warnock needs your full contribution. (Another thing that puzzles me is where the $$$ is coming from when they say your contribution will be doubled or tripled. And what in exchange are they eventually owed? Sources like FTX?)

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Nov 17, 2022·edited Nov 17, 2022

Give to him directly through ActBlue

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Check out the Movement Voter Project. Movement.vote. They give 100% of donations to grassroots organizations. I don’t trust national organizations to spend wisely or effectively.

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Right now, for now, we are working to get Warnock elected. Donating to some movement or other is not going to help. Warnock is a sliver behind in the polls, maybe because the poll are sloppy, but we can't take chances. We need to donate directly to Warnock so his campaign can get their message out asap. I might remind you that if Warnock loses, we not only lose a fine Senator and a solid majority in the Senate - we also avoid an unpredictable, unstable man taking his place. Haven't we had enough of those? Put your money where it will do the best job. It's only 19 days to the runoff. They need funds and support NOW.

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Don’t respond to inane emails, just Google and donate. They will still find you for more begging, but maybe less

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So, if they HAVE the money to "multiply small donations several times" why don't they just contribute that money directly?

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It is far more tempting to donate $3 when it will be multiplied than if it is only $3. I was very grateful for those donors, much as I would like to see the end of Citizens United and publicly financed elections.

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GOTV postcards????

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Yes. Is that surprising?

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What are they??

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Get Out The Vote postcards, to Democratic voters, urging them to vote in the Georgia Senate runoff election. Sorry, I forget that not everyone knows the abbreviation GOTV. :-)

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Virginia, I send him a donation every month. 👍🏻

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Donated!

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Nov 17, 2022·edited Nov 17, 2022

Support for Ukraine is the essential message in today's Letter. Essential to the world, that is how important Ukraine's freedom as an independent, democratic nation. It is about 'the power of partnership'.

'U.S. pledged more assistance that will bring its total so far up to $18.6 billion, and seven other countries also either delivered or pledged more military assistance.'

'Sweden today offered another $287 million, Spain is sending 2 more HAWK launchers and missiles, and Canada is sending another $500 million in assistance and more in winter gear. Germany is sending more defense supplies, artillery, and ammunition. Greece and Poland are sending more ammunition as well.'

U.S. Secretary of Defense Lloyd Austin concluded, “Our resolve is only strengthened by Russia’s indefensible attacks on civilian targets, and we’ll continue to stand together in common purpose because no member of this contact group wants to live in a world where big countries bulldoze their peaceful neighbors, and we won’t just accept Putin’s imperial aggression and erosion of international norms as some kind of new normal. Instead, we will continue to stand up for Ukraine’s inalienable rights to defend itself. We’ll continue to strengthen our unity and resolve. We’ll continue to show the power of partnership.” (Letter)

The US is working with Ukraine and our allies to do the essential work on behalf of Democracy.

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First thing Tanya does on the morning is check Telegram to see how bad the night was. She knew the area well that was hit last night in Dnipro city. Last count 15 dead.

Whether or not the two rockets that struck Poland were Ukrainian air defence old Soviet 300s doesn't matter. It cooled the situation. If it were Putin and done deliberately there will be a repeat at some point.

The joke is that NATO is stationed at the Polish Border to keep the Poles from attacking Russia.

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Allen, Wishing you and Tanya wherever you are and everyone in Ukraine and those who managed to leave Ukraine, safe passage and an end to this criminal attack and violence, this War on Ukraine. Love and Hope from all of us.

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🌻🛤️🍁❤️

Please, more from you in the near future, (the old-fashioned way) Allen.

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Allen,

Sounds like you, Tanya, and Lucky have reached safety?! Wishing you all the best. 💙💛

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Timothy Snyder has a sub stack Thinking About...........yesterday, detailing how to help by supporting through donations.

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'Help stop a genocide'. See link below.

https://snyder.substack.com/p/help-stop-a-genocide

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Thank you.

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“Support for Ukraine is the essential message in today's Letter. Essential to the world, that is how important” Fern your words are right on. We must remember history and ignoring Fascists and Nazis for years while they destroyed Europe and infiltrated USA. We are the World now. Universal. Our media and technology connect us as never before. We must not close our eyes or our hearts. Ukrainian people are not only courageous, but counting on the world to care. It seems crazy that we have actually watched, observed Russia destroy a country. Right before our eyes, the world. We must continue support.

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"The Republican civil war between the far right and the medium right is playing out in leadership struggles."

I was thinking it was more like between fascists and semi-fascists!

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The party of death and the party of keeping people alive, but torturing them. Right now medium right sounds like medium rare....pretty bloody.

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Nov 17, 2022·edited Nov 17, 2022

Thanks for the post on two important aspects of what is transpiring in this time of transition nationally. Great to see the continued strong support of the Ukraine. Also, it is going to be interesting to see the convolutions (and convulsions) that occur in the fragmenting GOP. Reading the latest several posts on the National Review web page (some allowed for full length) shows the change in the climate and the finger pointing. No time to relax however. Georgia is a key to the future. The GOP will NOT stop dirty tricks, lying, and the continual attempt to undercut justice, compassion, opportunity, and just plain common sense. They really are the Party of Destruction. The Clown Car is also a potential Demolition Derby (for the nation.....)

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On the missle that landed in Prezewodow, Poland, I had requested in LFAA comments yesterday asking anyone to post Anne Applebaum on the incident. No one did. So here is the bottom line from Anne's piece today in the "Ideas" section of The Atlantic:

theatlantic.com.

"What really caused the missle that landed in the Polish border village of Prezewodow yesterday was as Presidemt Joe Biden, Polish President Andrezej & other Nato officials have suggested, the result of a Ukranian antimissle defense barrage".

For those who watched Biden's statement abroad made to reporters, Biden specifically mentioned the trajectory of the missle [not from Russia]. See also, theguardian.com & note that Emma Grahan-Harrelson is reporting from Prezewodow, Poland.

For those who watched the Pentagon's very early terse statement, that statement contradicted those who still confuse association with causation, a form of misinformation.

I do agree as a matter of International Law & common sense, Putin is ultimately responsible for the terror barrage on Ukraine, As I posted yesterday, Putin has lost the land war. Putin has switched to a new strategy already deployed in Syria: terror, ethnic cleansing & infrastructure destruction against the people of Ukraine that must be stopped without fail.

Ukraine must be repaired; its people must be healed. The war crimes must be prosecuted.

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" .. Putin has switched to a new strategy already deployed in Syria: terror, ethnic cleansing & infrastructure destruction against the people of Ukraine that must be stopped " Syria is good recent example. The Chechen wars, also recent, forebode all that's come since, when one views longer term. A more thorough view is summarized here. Cheers Bryan ! -> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wars_involving_Russia

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D4N, thank you for the "longer term" view: fresh in my mind was the story of a young Syrian woman who had escaped to the UK.

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I really want to support NATO and President Biden but as my post above shows, it looks like they are lying. Why is not completely clear but now more than ever, the world needs truth.

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I don't know if they are lying, but it is disturbing that President Zelenskyy is not in agreement with NATO's conclusions. One has to wonder why the Ukrainians have not been part of the investigation. As to why NATO, Biden, et al might be lying, it may be because if they blame Russia, and Russia has attacked a NATO country, then under section 5 NATO has to come to the defence of Poland, thereby possibly setting off World War III.

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Until the NATO investigation is complete, it's bad PR for Zelenskyy to state publicly that the missile was Ukrainian, lest he give the impression that it's a good thing the missile landed across someone else's border.

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That has already been clarified. For one thing, section five would go into effect only if requested AND the situation was clear. It is not yet. The incident is being handled under section four. That allows NATO leverage and increases the possibility of resolving this without escalation (though Putin will make that difficult). We can argue this thing to death and accuse people of lying, but then I want to question why some people want to wring as much out of it as they can. Short-sighted or deliberately provocative?

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Everything I’ve read or heard sounded like everyone is being careful on not placing blame and just saying it was not necessarily a direct strike from Russia and that a thorough investigation will take place. Seems like an awfully lot at stake here, (untold lives). Would hope they will do everything they can to sort thru the chaos and get to the truth. Seems unlikely it was intentional if it was Putin, which doesn’t excuse it but might be a reason to avoid pouring gasoline on the current situation.

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Deb, I carefully looked for "my post above" but could not find it?

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No, you found it! :) the one about the coordinates and NATO. Thx for your interesting link and reply. I agree, NATO has little to win by lying.

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Is NATO buying time? To accept that it was a russian missle puts a HUGE new demand on NATO allies. I could see the NATO allies wanting to downplay this incident, while sending back channel communications to Putin to knock it off. “Fool me once, shame on you. Follow me twice, shame on me.”? I trust Zelensky, but understand why the allies would hedge. Winter in almost here, dedicating a new military expectation of Boots-on-the-Ground from all of us is the last Christmas present NATO wants to have to afford right now.

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MLRGMI, I also trust Zelensky. I also respect the Secretary General of NATO who has been in office over 8 years, Jens Stoltenberg. I am not proficient in the internal dynamics of the now expanding (Finland & Sweeden ) NATO. Winter is nearly here; complicating many issues, mobility, energy, military tactics to name a few. I believe you are correct, NATO "boots on the grounds" is not desired. But, there are many tactical options to consider.

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I'm finding it difficult to discover where Russia is launching these missiles from. Ships in the Black Sea? Belarus? All the way from the Russian border to the east?

I do hope that somebody can put a big hurt on those launch sites, especially if they are ships in the Black Sea and vulnerable to drone boats. (Firing missiles directly into Russian or Belarus territory, unfortunately, not a good idea politically.) I also hope that a big part of these aid commitments include repair materials for energy facilities, not just weapons.

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Russia’s long-range missiles are just that: long range, some significantly. They’re coming from Russia. Interesting chart in this article:

https://taskandpurpose.com/news/russia-land-based-missile-range-chart/

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If we accept that any country can engage in the manufacture of weapons, then, at some point those weapons will be used. It's what humans do. So many humans still believe it's okay to value some lives more than others and that killing those "less valued" lives is justifiable. I wonder if we'll ever get beyond this, or are we "wired" to see it this way?

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Values are deeply personal but most value creativity and intelligence. We must have a biological instinct for self-preservation and creativity and intelligence both further our ability to survive. So to me, it looks like we are “wired”.

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Alright, my dear brothers and sisters, while you are playing detective in an ongoing and deadly war others are actually suffering in the fight for their freedom....Let's wait and see, let's be patient.....clearer heads are wisely and carefully investigating. Acting on assumption would be diasterous.

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What? I wasn't suggesting that we act on assumptions, only that as long as our species tolerates the manufacture of weapons, they will eventually be used. I wasn't assuming anything about who did what in this conflict, only noting that as a species we're okay with killing others for whatever cause we may espouse. And, I'm certainly not unaware of the horror people are enduring and feel fortunate that I've not had to experience it first hand. However, my mother struggled through the German occupation of Holland, including the hunger winter, during WWII and my father was imprisoned in Japanese prison camp for civilians in Indonesia, so I've seen how war can scar people. I hold the weapons manufacturers as well as those who volunteer to work in the factories that produce these instruments of suffering and destruction and any leader of a country that chooses to use them against civilians responsible. We seem to never learn.

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J.Nol, I was not calling you out by name regarding the incident in Poland....my comment was regarding the many posts with opinions from afar about an incident that if missed judged could bring us into WW 111. A detailed diagnosis must be made especially by those affected the most.

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I agree. It's usually best to reserve judgment or refrain from sharing an opinion about something when not all the facts are in. But, as you know, humans being who they are, will often wade in sometimes without any facts or information at all. 😉

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Very happy the Defense “of Marriage act moved forward with bipartisan support. Maybe “only twelve” Republicans voted for it but a cross over is a cross over. I wonder if there could be enough Republican crossover in the House to keep the Jan 6 committee going just to drive another nail in trump’s demise.

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Jack Cocchiarella: "There’s nothing more Mitch McConnell than voting AGAINST interracial marriage while being in an interracial marriage."

https://twitter.com/JDCocchiarella/status/1593001402078760960?s=20&t=Nn5ZTf2bYf3qZO_a8KVdfw

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Yeah, well: he and Clarence Thomas are all too literally grandfathered in, now, aren't they?

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A subtle message to Elaine he wants out?

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Not totally surprising since he never defends his wife agains tfg's racist name-calling. Sick.

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People's sexuality, reproduction, and marriage should be exempted from all legislation the same way religion is in the First Amendment. Private is private.

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Well, except for lower limits on the age of consent for marriage: let's keep those, please.

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If wishes were fishes and there were Republicans who were committed to honoring their Oath of Office - but then, we have to remember their nature.

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Why did Schumer not do a Defense of Women’s Health bill concurrently? If it goes down we still have the issue still front and center. The more stories about the true need for keeping abortion legal, the better.

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Probably 12 repubs would disappear?

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Valid issue. Biden said, without a "D" majority in the House, he would not be able to get a bill codifying Roe through Congress. He's right. Just as there was a loud message that democracy was on the line in the 2022 election, a compaign message was needed that without a significant "D" majority in both chambers, we would have a load jam - which we now see before us.

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Kyiv Lat: 50.45466, Long: 30.5238

Lviv Lat: 49.83826, Long: 24.02324

Polish Farmers field: Lat: 50.45466 Long: 24.02324

Notice:

Kyiv Lat = Polish Farmers Field Lat

Lviv Long = Polish Farmers Field Long

Very improbable that this is a coincidence! very likely a Russian entered the coordinates incorrectly. President Zelenskyy must be allowed to participate in the investigation and NATO absolutely must be truthful!

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Nov 17, 2022·edited Nov 17, 2022

Google earth does show a farm field (there are many). There are no structures nearby and the field was recently harvested.

What I do not know is if this field was the field where the missle struck. I have tried to find a way to discern the exact farm field and cannot.

However, whatever the field you have defined as the coordinates is close to where the missle struck based on some other visuals

https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/missile-hits-poland-after-crossing-ukraine-border-reports

The interesting thing is that you take a low probability of occurrence (a soldier somehow typing in the coordinates of one city for LONG then antoher City for LAT), and then claim that means ALL of NATO are lying.

I would say that, all things considered, ALL of NATO lying about something that Zelensky could possibly prove as a lie is also a very low probability. What would be the motive to place such a wedge?

Note, low probability events do occur. But, they should not be the first choice when many unknowns are part of the overall system.

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I have to confess that I looked up these coordinates myself in a not normal state of mind. The Ukrainian Denys Daveydov released a coordinates video yesterday that resulted in my doubt of NATO. All I read/saw of NATO yesterday morning seemed to be agreeing that the missiles landing in Poland were a result of Ukrainian air defense while Ukraine is certain it’s a “hello” from Moscow. Being “under investigation” is acceptable, blaming Ukraine is not, because every inch of NATO territory is supposed to be defended by NATO. Is it a way to get out of going to war as critics claim? Is NATO spineless? It did seem that way yesterday. I suppose these officials speaking of the security agreements are not to be taken literally but that does give them a wish-washy (yes spineless) flavor. And excluding Zelensky from the investigation doesn’t help with transparency.

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I wonder if it is truly spineless to avoid a war. No one wants to be a victim of lies, but it is enough to see this stance spreading. These wars over pride and resources terrorize people and put $ into the hands of the already rich. For these men, it is a giant game of risk. It's not about people. To these narcissistic boors, people present chaos. They want resources. So yeah, let's see them sweat it out at the table, to see who will accept the blame for making a murderous mistake. Two people died. That's 2 too many.

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I agree. Anything they can do to avoid plunging us into another war should be done. However, blaming Ukraine, probably isn't the best strategy. I am glad not to have to be deciding this but the thug Putin has got to go. I hope there are some in Russia brave enough to finally stand up to him and say enough is enough.

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Google maps shows an open farmer’s field with no nearby structures at the coordinates that you cite. Wiki gives 50.474444, 23.921944 as the site of the missile hit. Google maps shows a group of small buildings there, about 10 km away from the the other coordinates.

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Is Bellingcat checking this out? They usually are credible.

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The Polish/Ukrainian border isn't a straight line, however: Przewodów (the village in Poland) is in the bit of the border that bulges significantly eastward, and lies on or near a line drawn from Lviv straight north.

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Interesting point!

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This is conjecture and a stretch at that.

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Extraordinary pick up!

Well done!

The NATO investigation team needs you!

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The mandate is in to get much critical legislation completed between now and Jan. 3 when the new Congress takes office. It's clear the Republicans are threatened by Congressmen Swawell and Schiff. I'm expecting Congressman Raskin to be on the Hit List, too. The Good News today is learning that Katie Porter (and her white board) from CA was re-elected.

There is no time for voters to sit back and relax though. Letters and emails will be needed to let every member of the Senate and House know where we stand when the crazies like MTG, Jordan, Biggs, Hawley, and so many more try to push their "burn & destroy" agenda while cheer-leading Trump in front of media microphones. There will be no loose pennies from this household. In addition to the non-profits I try to support, I can see the need already for building campaign chests for those with backbone and commitment to continue the fight for our democracy.

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Thank you for noting Katie Porter’s re-election. I’ve been trying to check every day but anything I accessed about her election still had it too close to call 🤨.

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It's still too close to call, but according to ocvote.gov (the official Orange County election website) last night, Katie is still leading 51.63% to 48.37%.

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Yahooo for Katie Porter and her white board (from Montreal)…Another bright light!!!

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'An American Tragedy'

By David Remnick

'November 9, 2016'

'The election of Donald Trump to the Presidency is nothing less than a tragedy for the American republic, a tragedy for the Constitution, and a triumph for the forces, at home and abroad, of nativism, authoritarianism, misogyny, and racism. Trump’s shocking victory, his ascension to the Presidency, is a sickening event in the history of the United States and liberal democracy. On January 20, 2017, we will bid farewell to the first African-American President—a man of integrity, dignity, and generous spirit—and witness the inauguration of a con who did little to spurn endorsement by forces of xenophobia and white supremacy. It is impossible to react to this moment with anything less than revulsion and profound anxiety.' (NewYorker)

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I knew that, as did many.

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More importantly we have known this for 6+ years and nothing has changed for the better. The grifter and conman kept grifting and conning as he did his best to undermine and destroy democracy. He and his Republican cohorts are guilty of crimes against humanity, undermining the Constitution, and defiling the rule of law. Meanwhile, the Fourth Estate treats all of this as political gamesmanship with stories that sell subscriptions. Forgotten or avoided are stories focusing on the rise of fascism and the crushing increase in income and wealth inequality.

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Nov 17, 2022·edited Nov 17, 2022

Both aspects concerning the US & Trump -- his election to the presidency and what that indicates about country at the time -- and then what the six plus of the US/ Trump/Republican Party/ and all the rest of us mean. An analysis of the midterm elections is part of our understanding. Much is abbreviated in your summary ChipsPOV All fair minded and keen summaries might differ a bit but would consider a good deal by examining the major threads, roots, players, eternal forces and the details.

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In short, nobody has explained to my satisfaction how a deranged psychopath got within a mile of the White House. Nobody has determined how the media could be so negligent in their responsibility to inform and educate, to provide truthful analysis in the face of extraordinary lies and misinformation. In short, how the hell did this happen and where were the safeguards and pushback within our system of government? Trump and the Republicans representing a distinct minority of Americans and at the behest of the wealthy have completely exploited politics and governance to their benefit. As Jeri said, most of us knew what Trump was and could imagine what was coming.

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The Republican Twelve:

Susan Collins of Maine

Lisa Murkowski of Alaska

Rob Portman of Ohio

Mitt Romney of Utah

Thom Tillis of North Carolina

Roy Blunt of Missouri

Cynthia Lummis of Wyoming

Richard Burr of North Carolina

Shelley Moore Capito of West Virginia

Dan Sullivan of Alaska

Joni Ernst of Iowa

Todd Young of Indiana

I take back all the bad things I've reported they've said. Not really. They're still all deplorables.

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Oh yes...Susie from Maine has a lot atonement to perform. I, for one, am still furious about her confirmation of "I Love Beer" Kavanaugh.

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Well, she had probably become concerned.

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Have you seen the YouTube of Susan Collins expressing her concern? Funny-sad

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Yep, all of them are willing to crawl, mewling like kittens, at The Man from Florida's feet.

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Heavy with soon to be retiring Senators.

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Yes. One correct vote does not erase what they've supported and continue to support in the fascist party.

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Has Murkowski's race been called yet?

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If neither Kelly Tshibaka nor Sen. Lisa Murkowski wins outright with more than 50% of the vote, then the race will be decided with ranked choice tabulation scheduled for Nov. 23. Tshibaka is currently at 43.3% and Murkowski is at 43.1%.

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Pretty confident most of Chesbro’s 10% will go to Murkowski on the 2nd round. Not much concern there.

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Thank you Heather.

“Russia could stop the war at any time.”

Yes, Putin could.

Of course I’m disappointed that team Blue didn’t keep the House - though if reasonable Reds will trump the Trumps, perhaps our 2 party system has a shot at functioning again.

May prison be in Trump’s future and the gulag in Putin’s.

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Nov 17, 2022·edited Nov 17, 2022

Count me among those who believe that Democrats could have retained their majority in the House with better leadership and strategy. Yes, gerrymandering was a major impediment. But there were enough narrow losses, including in more rural districts, that demonstrate my point. And then there's New York. Talk about a failure, especially by the state party.

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Not just gerrymandering. Actively ignoring court orders and using illegal maps, with an assist from SCOTUS.

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As well as voter suppression and intimidation.

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Definitely another significant factor.

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In Texas, 9.6 million registered voters did not vote. Breaks my heart! Abbutt and his party of good ol’ boys will continue to wreck havoc on our state. I’ve lived here most of my life by other people’s design. Now I’m planning to get out!

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Nov 17, 2022·edited Nov 17, 2022

Michael,

I live in NY. I can say, Kathy Hochul's $600 million gift to one of her main campaign donors, the owner of the Buffalo Bills Pegula family, in Buffalo, was a driving force to vote Republican.

Another driving force was Kathy Hochul's gift, to a middle man campaign donor, of $637 million dollars for 200,000 Covid tests that California had paid $300 million for by buying directly from the company making the tests instead of a middle man.

So, do the math. Hochul gives $637 million for Covid tests that cost $300 million.

Where did the rest of the money go? I am a Democrat and it was ALL I COULD DO to hold my hand steady enough to vote for Hochul. I really did almost vote for Zeldin.

AND, if she keeps up her stealing my money to give to the rich reverse Robin hood antics I will vote Republican next time.

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Nothing could make me vote Republican.

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Nov 17, 2022·edited Nov 17, 2022

I live in New York as well but do not know about governor Hochul's '$600 million gift to the Buffalo Bills Pegula family', perhaps, Mike S will explain. I would like to know more about the governor making such a gift. I did, however, read the following two articles about how the governor filled her campaign coffers and a new state law campaign finance system, which will lower individual contribution limits and establish a small-dollar public matching program for state-level offices.

'Last November, when many of Manhattan’s skyscrapers sat half-empty, Gov. Kathy Hochul made a high-stakes wager on New York City’s commercial real estate industry: She vowed to move ahead with a marquee plan to restore Pennsylvania Station and erect new office towers around it.'

'For Manhattan’s mega-rich real estate developers, the announcement signaled Ms. Hochul’s support for the kind of grand projects that foretell a windfall, and some found a concrete way of showing their approval to the new governor.'

'In the weeks that followed, Ms. Hochul’s campaign received checks for $69,700, the legal limit, from some of the city’s biggest real estate executives, including Steven Roth of Vornado Realty Trust, which is positioned to directly benefit from the project that he once called a “Promised Land.” Other checks trickled in from developers, builders, engineers and even some who opposed it.'

'The campaign contributions flowed from a broader spigot of cash turned on last fall by New York’s varied special interests, from real estate and building trades to hospitals, labor unions and gaming companies, directed toward Ms. Hochul’s election campaign.'

'The donations included $200,000 in checks from the family behind a major construction firm with millions in state contracts, $47,000 that was tied to a gaming giant leaning on the state to expand legal gambling, and $41,000 traced back to a single Albany lobbyist.'

'The funds helped Ms. Hochul, a moderate Democrat who unexpectedly ascended to office last August, assemble a record-setting $21.6 million war chest, and claim a steep advantage heading into June’s Democratic primary and November’s general election.'

'People and industries with financial interests before the state have long been reliable donors to top elected officials, showering them with money that, at times, can pose ethical and legal problems.' (NYTimes) See gifted link below.

The following, an except from Gotham Gazette notes those that donated the maximum amount to Hochul's campaign and, importantly, details the new state campaign finance system, which will lower individual contribution limits and establish a small-dollar public matching program for state-level offices.

'Since Kathy Hochul became governor in August 2021, 47 people have given the maximum amount – $69,700 – directly to her campaign, according to campaign finance filings through October 3.'

'In total, the governor's campaign has brought in $46 million in her first 14 months in office. That massive sum will not be as easy to accumulate in future elections thanks to a new state campaign finance system that will lower individual contribution limits and establish a small-dollar public matching program for state-level offices.'

'The system, intended to help reduce the influence of big money in politics by amplifying the value of everyday donors, will match small donations to participating candidates with public funds, allowing them to rely less on large checks from wealthy individuals and special interest groups. It will also lower contribution limits across the board, making it more difficult, by design, for politicians to raise huge sums of cash from individual contributors.' See link below for the complete article.

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/01/20/nyregion/hochul-fund-raising-donors.html?unlocked_article_code=NfkEoiThORk9doVhL2OU29mUzA8FG9e5WzxCKhWK6f4MsmYpVnRnKmvk-Cmix_FIkIXXMhlr29tmCezBZRe4j-RmWOWAzn3ewX6P5GzJriqb6WO1_EjX3EXeCokDehGphFVb-aJD1r_cKVd3hlGgtONKlpS1I_Tcw5llD7vhZ-kNHTzA1QDiS2urOPmi_2j_h7yC68I2bEIw8dFdTshYWAhlIlyH9PcT-NiA03RikXJtJsOYMjf6nzeShhkA7FEAElNa1p6DN7FkbKHjVt_DCaU0OixEIXOucHJEWygphjSaeqgE0xwQ467V2lL4aHCAQVPxKB2dEaZ3_Mf2dH7XUWcenVvu&smid=share-url

https://www.gothamgazette.com/state/11615-hochul-cuomo-fundraising-election-new-campaign-finance-system

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Nov 17, 2022·edited Nov 17, 2022

Corruption is no stranger to either party, unfortunately.

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What’s happening in NY State? Flipping from Blue to Red?

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Nov 17, 2022·edited Nov 17, 2022

LOL I was just posting a quote from Vox when I saw you post the link the quote came from!! TY!

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Upstate NY is mostly red, outside major cities.

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Vox points several fingers. One is some crazy Gerry Mandering and another was: “According to a mid-October poll by Quinnipiac University, likely voters in New York said crime was the most serious issue facing the state, with inflation in second place. Among Democrats, crime was the second most important issue behind protecting democracy.”

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But MAGA red?? They’re all so privileged to be unconcerned for fascism??

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The blue voters didn’t turn out in big enough numbers compared to 2020in addition to the new Districts .

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Mr. Garau,

Don't hold your breath for Trump to go to jail.

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Does anyone not recognize the irony that Justice Thomas is in an inter-racial marriage, yet he opposes LGBTQ+ marriages. Really?????? I grew up in the south (born 1960) and I honestly had no idea into my 20's and maybe 30's that gay marriage wasn't legalized when inter-racial marriage was legalized. That made sense to me - marry whomever you love. Call me clueless, and I knew lots of people that I presumed were gay, but I didn't think it was any of my business whether they married or not. Why would they advertise their sexual orientation any more than I would? Little did I know that they couldn't get married and were still horribly discriminated against! My son is gay and I'm so glad he came of age in a (somewhat) better world.

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Nov 17, 2022·edited Nov 17, 2022

Judy,

Justice Thomas is not in dissonance with the color of his skin or his status as human being.

Justice Thomas is just a paid minion of the Federalist Society, and, I am sure he is paid very, very well.

He will, always, 100% of the time, do as he is told to do by his puppet masters in the Federalist Society. He does not mind what they call him when they meet together to craft what he will do next. He does not mind taking orders from them.

He does not mind the big Swiss Bank deposits he gets.

He is totally corrupt. Just like Kavanaugh. Just like Gorsuch.

The Federalist Society's takeover of the Supreme Court is an unmatched assault on Democracy because: It is the one institution in our Democracy that is anti-Democratic.

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100%

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The Federalist Society (and the backers of that Society) have impacted the entire Justice system. It is a travesty and a direct assault on juris prudence in a blatant attempt to favor the wealthy and establish a de facto plutocratic form of government. BTW, you forgot to include Alito who in my mind is completely compromised and in total conflict with established law.

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It's fantastic to see the Democratic leadership rushing to take advantage of the waning days of their control of both the Senate and House to pass such historic legislation. The Respect for Marriage Act will be more enduring proof that the government can indeed protect our pursuit of life, liberty, and happiness.

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You are simply brilliant.

“In 1856, at a time when party alignments were shifting markedly, it took the House two months and 133 ballots finally to choose Representative Nathaniel Banks of Massachusetts, and by then, everyone knew exactly who backed whom.”

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One more nugget of knowledge I never knew.

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