A follow-up to some stories I’ve mentioned: Egypt has opened its border crossing into Gaza, permitting ambulances to carry 76 badly injured Palestinians to Egypt, while 335 people who hold foreign passports were able to cross. Jonathan Lemire, Nahal Toosi, and Alexander Ward of
"You should not be afraid of someone who has a library and reads many books; you should fear someone who has only one book; and he considers it sacred, but he has never read it." Frederich Nietzsche
Craig, too true. And when you add the “prosperity gospel” in which God supposedly gives material riches to the most faithful, (regardless of how many commandments they break to acquire and keep them), then you encourage pride of class and exploitation of anyone not in your group (those favored by your god).
No, it’s the religion preached by preachers like Joel Ostern. “ The Prosperity Gospel (PG) is a fast-growing theologically conservative movement frequently associated with Pentecostalism, evangelicalism, and charismatic Christianity that emphasizes believers’ abilities to transcend poverty and/or illness through devotion and positive confession. The PG is popular among impoverished communities, where at best it is considered to offer the poor a means of imagining and reaching for better lives (at times accompanied by sound financial advice), and at worst is criticized as predatory and manipulative, particularly when churches or pastors require heavy tithing.”
Mary, just send money you don't have to your pastor. I am reminded of the scene in Repo Man where the young man is eating a can of...is it dog food....while his parents are glued to a TV pastor and sending him all their money. My great niece has fallen for this kind of thing and once was on Facebook trying to solicit funds for her pastor. During the pandemic she was upset that she could go to the grocery store, but not church. Pfft, isn' an omnipresent god everywhere. She was also in my will for a family item which i then figured she would either give or sell to help her pastor. So, that item is now going to my nephew here.
Fortunately they all live at least 2000 miles away and so I only see things on Facebook. I did take on something she said once for all the good it did.
The “Prosperity Gospel” is a new name for an old product. In the 19th century, the “Gospel of Wealth” emerged in American as an explanation for and lionization of men like Andrew Carnegie, John D. Rockefeller and others who had amassed great fortunes. It also, later, underpinned non-denominational preachers like, the Reverend Ike who liked to say, “the best thing you can do for the poor is not be one of them.” This, in turn, is what we hear from Joel Osteen and his ilk today.
Nope, but they don't follow the Sermon on the Mount.....too woke. Jesus is also clearly against using religion to get rich. So Osteen and his ilk are running a den of thieves and of course loudly praying.
I am a bit surprised that we are seeing comments where the commentor is not familiar with "prosperity gospel". Yes it is a thing and it has been a thing for a while. Many of Trump's "spiritual" advisory folks were of this bent. Remember Paula White? It was sickening to watch.
Yes Beverly. Should go down as one of the biggest cons in the history of evangelicalism. Few people on earth are more un-Christian than Trump. I do not know how conservative Christians who are Trump bootlickers can look at themselves in the mirror without complete and utter shame. A new meaning of the word hypocrisy.
Check Robert Schuller’s sermons that built the Crystal Cathedral in Orange County, CA. (1955 and 1980). Been around for a very long time. The sermons often started with “cast your bread upon the waters and it will return to you 10-fold.” That is, give money to this ministry and you will be made rich.
Our system of government and its founding documents are the product of The Enlightenment’s rejection of absolute monarchy and state religion. In a recent essay in The Atlantic, Peter Wehner explains where House Speaker Mike Johnson’s view of government’s role comes from. The essay is worth reading and it’s frightening. Johnson, evidently, believes The Enlightenment either did not happen or should be considered error.
He is a true believer who is full of hubris and arrogance. He has this constant smarmy look as if only he knows and the rest of us dolts do not. He is truly awful.
Anyone who thinks that material wealth is a sign of God’s approval (prosperity gospel), must’ve missed that part about the rich man trying to squeeze through the needle’s eye...
Thanks for the article, MAS. Just read it and indeed you are correct to use the word "frightening". It pulls the curtain back on not just Johnson but how his mentors like David Barton the "Christian-right activist who cherry picks from the past to promote political agendas in the present, to paint a picture of America’s history as evangelicals would like it to be", perverting Madison & Jefferson's written words into their own worldview. Worse, Johnson's commitment to these perversions led 139 House GOP to illegally try overturning the election who “In formal statements justifying their votes, about three-quarters relied on the arguments of,... Mike Johnson"
The author, Peter Wehner's last line sums it all up, "he uses his Christian faith to sacralize his fanaticism and assault on truth. I can't help thinking this isn't what Jesus had in mind."
Jesus certainly didn't have anyone like Speaker Smug in mind. In fact, he would have been on Jesus's black list....exactly the kind of person who practices the form but not the essence of a religion. This was part of his dismay with the Temple hierarchy.
Practices the form of what religion? Not any Christian religion. Quite the contrary, as your reference to the concept of black list suggests. But I for one loathe the term "black list" which harkens to mind Tail Gunner Joe McCarthy.
Focusing on Madison and Jefferson and the Virginia Constitution gives a distorted impression of the role of church and state at the founding. It is not helpful to deny that there were strong religious impulses when the nation was founded. The First Amendment was readily accepted because it was a restraint on the FEDERAL government. It pleased the Deists (e.g. Jefferson) because they distrusted all religions but perhaps more importantly, it was supported by many religious people who feared that state level links to particular religions would be overridden in a movement to establish a national church. The Fourteenth Amendment was not interpreted to extend the religious First Amendment protections from state action until 1940 (Cantwell v. Connecticut).
Here are a few other points to bear in mind: In 1776 all but one of the thirteen colonies (Rhode Island) had ties to one or another church. Church-state ties persisted for decades afterwards and were only gradually weakened during a period that was sometimes called the Disestablishment . The last Congregational link in Massachusetts (always the bane of Maine) was not dissolved until 1833. Long ago (as now) religious (and anti-religious) enthusiasm seemed to breed controversy and political conspiracy theories. In 1800 it was the Illuminati who (first) were said to be using Jefferson to end all religions and then, in a new conspiracy, were alleged to be using Adams to impose one national one!
These struggles have continuous life over centuries.
Not sure it was resistance to empire although it was the Romans who crucified. No, it was his calling out of the Temple hierarchy who aided and abetted his being crucified. They were not interested in helping the poor and the outcasts, only enriching themselves. Does this sound familiar.
It sure does. And don't forget welcoming strangers (immigrants).
Some commentaries indicate that the Palm Sunday procession was an act of resistance to the emperor--a royal procession and declaration that Caesar wasn't lord. There are other indications of resistance to empire in the Gospels.
Render unto Caesar. The Romans were puzzled by Jewish resistance because they extended to Jews some things not available to others under Rome like not having to worship Caesar as a god and other duties of Roman subjects. Then Jews continued to resist and the result was their utter defeat by Titus and the destruction of the Temple. Most of the time the Romans were tolerant of other religions as long as people did not rebel. I am not an expert, but I see the life of Jesus as being focused on the problems of the Temple hierarchy and the ignoring of the real problems of ordinary people.
George Bernard Shaw wrote a very interesting and (IMO) illuminating essay about Jesus in the introduction to his play, Androcles and the Lion. Not the Jesus of the Prosperity Gospel.
I recently read “The Petroleum Papers” by Geoff Dembicki (which I highly recommend). I was struck by how many of the early fossil fuel magnates were strong proponents of evangelical Christianity. Apparently, despoiling the planet was consistent with their theology.
I don't go that far. We need churches, and Christian organizations, that reject all of this to remain financially healthy so that they can mount an effective resistance to this stuff. They're the first line of defense against it, because they are best equipped to throw sand in the Dominionists' theological gears.
And most of the kinds of Christians who would be resisting Dominionism and Christian nationalism do service work in their communities that would cost those communities more in social services than any tax revenue they would get from assessing church properties.
Further, taxing churches would probably violate the First Amendment's "free exercise of religion" clause, and probably also subject non-religious 501(c)3 charities to taxation.
So... failed farthest-right politicians embraced religion, converted to pastors, made money tax-free.... and misguided their passive, obedient flock in all things.
I would argue that a church is not a person, and has no constitutional rights, under the First Amendment or otherwise- it's just a type of social club. Human beings have constitutional rights, but entities do not - notwithstanding Citizens United and McCulloch v Maryland. (Citizens United was just plain wrongly decided, in my view, and McCulloch could be more narrowly construed so as to allow reasonable and appropriate taxation). Taxing an organization that one belongs to doesn't impede one's free exercise of religion, because no one is forced to pay to exercise their religion, are they? (Are they?) Churches, especially "the" Church, own vast amounts of very valuable real estate, as well as valuable personal property. As it stands now, people are allowed to take a tax deduction for contributions to their churches, but the church has no concomitant responsibility to pay tax on that income - unlike virtually every other club people choose to join, and pay dues to in order to be members. This damages our economy, particularly local economies in which a church owns valuable real estate but is sheltered from paying taxes on it.
And there's no reason the tax code can't make a distinction between taxable charitable entities and non-taxable charitable entities. Once an entity dives into the realm of politics, it should not be entitled to tax-free status.
Most people can no longer take tax deductions for their church contributions becasue of the Trump tax law. We would have to donate something close to $30,000 in total charitable deductions this year to even begin itemizing them--and that would only be amounts over that $30,000 (I could be wrong about the exact figure, but it's large).
Churches are not social clubs. That's a common attack label, but that's not their purpose; they are organized for the purpose of religious worship and religious instruction, so their very existence very much would fall under the "free exercise of religion" clause. The comparison of churches with corporations is a false analogy.
Most churches would have to close their doors if they were taxed. And that would shutter the social services they provide, putting a burden on taxpayer funded social services. The idea that churches damage our economy is just another attack, on the order of religious bigotry, that has no basis in fact.
Most of the wealth of the church is non-fungible; that is, it's not easily converted to cash, so the claim that the churches' wealth can be used to claim they should be taxed is simply not a valid argument.
Just because a few churches abuse their tax-exempt status (and it's really only a small percentage overall) is no reason to deny it to the many congregations that are trying to be faithful.
And as I wrote above, they are the first defense against the Dominionists and Christian nationalists. You can bet that, should they take over our government completely (God forbid), non-compliant and resisting churches would be the first organizations they would attack. Forcing them to pay taxes would kneecap the needed resistance they would provide.
Don, the large donors are the point - they are the ones getting huge tax deductions against their huge incomes. Not fair at all. And they can and do use their large donations to form policy and procedures - and those are rarely social services without a political agenda attached.
A specific church may have been formed for a specific purpose - allegedly. It isn't what they claim they are organized for, it is what they actually do once they are organized, which should justify their qualifying for non-taxable status. To the extent they carry out political organizing, or just engaging in socializing, they are not qualified for a tax deduction based on their religious instruction or worship. Call it a political club or a social club, that is not religious.
As I said, considering the zillions of extremely detailed provisons of the Code, making distinctions between churches qualified for non-taxable status and those "churches" in name only and therefore not qualified should be no trouble at all for the kind of people who have drafted (and amended, and amended, and amended) that Code.
And the analogy to corporations is apt; it is human beings, not their organizations, that have the right to freedom of religion. A church is an entity separate and distinct from its human congregation, and exists independently of them; if a member dies, the church does not die. If all the congregants die, the entity that is the church still "lives" - exactly what a corporation does.
With respect to the real and personal property of a church, yes, real and personal property can be sold to raise money to pay taxes; if a person has no source of income, and has to sell their stuff to pay their bills, why shouldn't a church? If a church has income, it can pay its taxes - I mean, by definition, it's not going to be liable for income taxes unless it has income; if its income is insufficient for that, it can tithe more. And let's not pretend that many "churches" aren't very wealthy, beyond the dreams of avarice, sitting on property, real or personal, that exists for "investment" (apartment buildings, artwork, items of gold and silver and jewels, etc.), and could be sold in a heartbeat, or used for paying taxes. Not all churches hold services in a congregant's living room.
And regardless of how many in number the cheating "churches" are, they are exactly the ones, the mega-churches come immediately to mind, against which a fair tax code should be enforced. Fix the tax code to prevent the cheating by political organizations masquerading as churches - they should have to justify their tax-free status, and if they actually provide religious instruction and worship and charitable services without political activism, like REAL churches, then they, like the REAL churches, can remain non-taxable.
And if they and other entities paid a fair share of taxes, a lot of the social services they provide could be shifted to the government's shoulders, and could be provided to all and sundry without any religious overtones, as such aid should be.
Finally, with all due respect, there don't seem to be any churches at all fighting in any noticeable way against the Xtian nationalists, end-of-times evangelists, dominionists, or other RWNJ gangs opposed to and working against democracy. Individuals, sure, but have any of the Xtian nationalists or their sorry ilk ceased striving to overthrow our nation as a consequence? I'd love to hear about their successes!
Anyway, taxation is a vexed question always, and with the RWNJs in the House of Reps now trying to fund aid to Israel ($14B) conditioned on defunding the IRS to the extent of every penny allocated to it under the 2022 Inflation Reduction Act ($80B), it raises its ugly head again, benefitting the rich tax cheats to the detriment of the rest of us - and, eventually, anyone abroad we'd like to help. They are truly despicable.
Well placed comment, Craig, and Amen, Frederick Nietzche. Hallelujah for the plethora of books that public libraries provide for all.
When I ask people during phone banking when “religion” comes up, specifically white Christian viewpoint, “have you read the Bible cover to cover?”, I have yet to either get a response or a “yes”.
Any teacher will tell you it is impossible to teach without reading and thinking first. One cannot foster varying viewpoints if one does not have a viewpoint. One can harbor a single viewpoint when that viewpoint has been shoved down the throat rather than cured and savored by the brain.
All they have to do is go to church and their pastor will tell them what to believe as will people in Bible study classes based of course, on their interpretation and an emphasis on those things that Jesus did not really teach. We have the Christianity of Paul, not so much Jesus. He managed to prevail over the brothers of Jesus in Jerusalem and that is too bad. I once again recommend God, An Anatomy for an excellent understanding of what is in the OT which reflects ideas prevalent in the ancient Middle East at the time.
The Buybull, cover to cover is an absolute, contradictory mess. From the Hateful Barbarism of the Old Testament to the Proselytizing of Paul, trying to get his Greeks & Romans to give up the old (fun) Pagan ways.
My Bible is very thin. Matthew, Mark, Luke & John. Something I have noticed that "Poser Christians" never quote from.
But... doesn't it have to be "up for discussion"? The Gospel, in particular, in which Jesus speaks in parables, often grossly misunderstood and misinterpreted by churchmen to fit in with their pursuit of power. If one doesn't probe and study in depth, the Good News may not come into its own.
I thought this was Thomas Aquinas, “hominem unius libri timeo…" ('I fear the man of a single book'). I was not aware Nietzsche had enlarged upon it. I would have thought him too nihilistic and deterministic to have written this.
I'm 78, MA in Religious Studies from VA Theological Seminary, 800 hours of Chaplain training, a former RC nun, and I have not read every single word in the Hebrew Scriptures (what we used to call Old Testament). I bet neither has almost everyone who uses "The Bible" to justify all manner of injustice. Just saying.....
Oh, Mary, thank you for the reminder and the link. It's one of my favorite scenes, second only to Adam Arkin's psychiatrist telling Josh in "Noel"..."because we get better." I cry every time!
Or worse yet, Craig, doesn't read the original tract, but avidly reads and/or listens to others who reinterpret what was said or written to suit their own prejudices. Most of the people I have met, including my mother and her sister, claimed to be devout 'Christians" but who, in reality followed Calvin and Knox.
Bravo Clearly explains our country’s position on church and state per the founders And cuts the new so called speaker who should know about separation of church and state down to size on his backhanded bill
Both church and state are corrupted when single-minded religious groups capture the civil powers of the state or when those entrusted with powers to defend all of the people misuse them to serve a personal or factional ideology. The Enlightenment mindset of the founders, while inadequate to recognize the equal rights of race and gender, still managed to legitimize and further a foundation for universal rights, which many still fight to expand today. Their acquaintance with advances in scientific thinking prized legitimacy established by testable logic and evidence, not prophecy. They did not reject individual faith in religion, but ruled it out as a basis for deciding matters of state that would require independent verification, such as guilt or innocence in a trial. The outcomes of theocratic governance can be observed throughout the world, and throughout history and can be compared to the outcomes of religiously tolerant, yet secularly governed societies. I know which option I would choose.
The Founding Fathers were well aware of the Crusades and the religious wars that had wracked Europe for the preceding 150 years. They probably knew about some of the tortures that Tomás de Torquemada (the Inquisition) inflicted upon "heretics," and the witch trials in the colonies. They knew that religion was a serious threat to the state. Moving forward, Stalin, Hitler and Mussolini were all raised as Roman Catholics. It could merely be coincidental, but given that six of our Supreme Court Justices are Roman Catholic, I have little confidence that they can keep religion and despotic inclinations out of their decisions. I feel fairly confident that Speaker Mike Johnson has no problem with the concept that "the end justifies the means." What if Johnson and the MAGA Republicans simply shut down the government by starving it?
Two reminders: President Joe Biden is Catholic. And a truly excellent example of one who walks the walk instead of just talking the talk, unlike the dictators previously mentioned in your examples of world leaders no one should seek to emulate regardless which religion they were raised in.
Second, Leonard Leo is neither clergy nor theologian. His dark-money machinations represent capitalism, not the Roman Catholic church. Leo’s outsize, evil affects on Supreme Court nominations are terrifying and are currently, finally under investigation by the Justice Department.
Has the Catholic Church produced more than its fair share of evil autocrats? Yes. But so have most major religions. Netanyahu is Jewish and not exactly a great example of a mensch. Iran’s Ayatollahs cause untold harm with their death chants. Religion is a human construct; therefore has all the same problems humans do.
Please be careful judging all Catholics by the behaviors of the rich, powerful, mentally-deranged white guys who try to burn the world down. Has little or nothing to do with being a person of faith.
When power, money and egos (pride) go so far off the rails as the radical right coalition of Catholics and fundamentalist Christians has gone, we need to call out even those members of the cult who merely do nothing and say little or nothing. At some point it is a choice and an action to fail to oppose wrongful use of power and influence; we are long past that point with both the Republican Party and the Catholic and fundamentalist Christian religions (all 3 of which are tightly wrapped together in the current courts and political structures). Because politicians, and citizens in general, do not read history - or read only an edited, distorted version of it - they fail to realize how much religion was intentionally excluded from the founding principles of the US by virtually all of the white men we now revere as Founding Fathers. With all due respect to those who consider themselves "persons of faith", religion, which is a human construct, has done more damage and caused more misery and suffering than any other force in human existence. It has no place in the secular legal, political and social management of a diverse and inclusive world, country, state, town or any other secular organization. Our country was founded by people who'd seen and escaped religious interference and intended to establish a democratic Republic free of its pernicious influence.
I just have to say, with all due respect, that fellowship and bonding with others for comfort has offered a huge space for those in need. Religion has been there to offer this. But, yes, separation between church and state here in the US was Madison's goal.
I don't think all churches and temples house cult and not all cults are religious, but all cults prohibit and often severely punish cross-examination of the cults precepts, in which I can find no legitimacy. If one's basis for faith is robust, it should be able to withstand questioning and scrutiny. I think that the beginning of wisdom and civility is acknowledgment that every single one of us is human, fallible, and obliged to make consequential decisions with the benefit of certainty.
Like all other human constructs of power it can be used for good or evil, it depends on who the people using it elevate to power.
Look at us now. We have a choice between a man filled with love or a man filled with hate, and so many want to give power to the man filled with hate. It’s always been up to us. Which wolf do we feed? There’s only one mothership for all of us.
Excellent points, Sheila. I didn't point out the atrocities perpetrated in the name of some of the other religions, Islam in particular. These religions are beliefs based on faith, which I define as the firm belief in the truth of something based on hope and conjecture. They have no facts to support their claims and reason is not on their side either. Our inability as a species in the generality to think critically, to get beyond our confirmation bias, to believe what we want to believe, costs us and the rest of the creatures that share this planet with us dearly.
Richard, I'd like to comment on your statement about the inability of humans as a species to think critically. I think the opposite - the ABILITY to think critically is inborn in most of us, but how to execute that ability must be taught by others who have learned from previous others, etc. As must refraining from squashing it in the young by people in positions of power or authority over them, whether parents, teachers, "spiritual leaders" (which are often nothing of the kind, IMO), governmental officials, the media, employers/bosses, etc. That ability can become a disability if discouraged and prevented and punished enough. And someone who's motivated to obtain power as a consequence of effectively squashing the critical thinking ability in others can and will do so -as we have seen. Sadly.
And I completely agree with your comment on the truth that all religions are based in fantasy and wishing, not on anything real. Maybe someday as a species we'll outgrow the need for a Big Daddy to reward the good guys and punish the bad guys, and so fear being a bad guy ourselves. I suppose it's possible to be spiritual, in the sense of having an awareness of being fully entitled to belong within and be a part of the entire cosmos, and appreciate that (like appreciating music, or nature, that can bring ecstasy or joy) without having to have faith in, or even believe in the existence of, some superpower - but that spirituality doesn't lead to power, and money, so it's not very popular, as far as I can see.
“As must refraining from squashing it in the young by people in positions of power or authority over them, whether parents, teachers, "spiritual leaders"…”
I think we all have, to varying degrees, inborn capacity to develop any of the traits that humans possess, but more than other animals(even though many animals do this a lot), our behaviors are learned from experience and each other. We also have advanced powers of self-reflection and empathy that serve us as a species. we also have a unique, individual experience and identity, the sense of "me", that we all need, but becomes toxic is "me" is ultimately all that we care about. Some people encourage mindfulness, while malignant narcissists often encourage self-serving self-absorption, and build cults around it.
Some of the gullibility could be cultural. Thomas Frank, in his book, "What's the Matter with Kansas," shows how the oligarchs use the promulgation of wedge issues through the media to persuade ordinary Americans to vote against their own best social and economic interests. How far down the income ladder must they plunge before catching on to the Pied-Piper play on them? The oligarchs really do intend to turn this government into an oligarchical autocracy. Who said it, "Total power corrupts totally?"
Lynn Spann Bowditch, you do seem to be telling of a belief in what I'd term "mono-atheism". To state my position, I see myself as religious but mistrust beliefs and belief systems, especially those grounded in blind faith. Not only the creeds required by Christian churches but various forms of inculcated irrationality, including scientism and blind faith in the deity of our time, money.
It is, of course, a common projection to imagine that others have beliefs while we... have Knowledge.
Going back to what I called mono-atheism, this seems on the face of it to be a variation on the endemic disease of the monotheist religions. The notion that there is One truth is unbelievably powerful and its political usefulness is evident... Thus, it can become correspondingly dangerous in the hands of anyone in a position of power who proclaims he possesses that one truth. Anyone, regardless of religious belief.
In Buddhism, the danger is when someone whose motivation is unsound has attained great powers of concentration. Witness the case of Ashin Wirathu in Burma: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-30930997.
Some other examples of religious or pseudo-religious abuse:
The Japanese militarists created a synthetic religion called State Shinto, centered on the deified Emperor, a ritualization of Japan's supposed spiritual superiority that integrated all the most negative features of the warriors' code. Buddhism was downgraded and everyone was obliged to join in imperial rites.
By demonizing the huge Muslim population of India, Prime Minister Narendra Modi has succeeded in hammering the immensely diverse communities, beliefs and philosophies that go under the single label "Hinduism" into something more like a solid mass.
Hitler achieved something similar by deforming the great diversity of the German-speaking peoples into a seemingly monolithic unit, the Herrenvolk, destined to dominate all lesser races and obliterate those whom the Fuehrer demonized, in particular Jews and Roma.
Stalin persecuted all religions without exception until the Nazi invasion of the Soviet Union, when he understood the need to draw on the ancient identification of Slavic peoples with Orthodoxy in the defense or Russia and Ukraine from Mongols and Tatars in the east and Catholic Poles and Teutonic Knights in the West.
'Even as President Biden presses Israel to define clearly the goals of its war against Hamas in Gaza, he is turning his eyes to a much larger endgame: the ever-elusive hope for a lasting peace deal between Israel and the Palestinians.'
'Speaking to reporters last week, Mr. Biden said that “when this crisis is over, there has to be a vision of what comes next, and in our view it has to be a two-state solution,” creating a sovereign Palestinian nation alongside the state of Israel.'
'The question is how hard Mr. Biden intends to work for that outcome.'
'Until last month, the Israeli-Palestinian conflict was not among his top priorities. A president focused on countering China and then Russia’s invasion of Ukraine had little time or inclination for a distant goal that stymied — and politically bruised — several of his predecessors.'
'Biden administration officials also doubted whether Israel’s increasingly hawkish leadership was interested in any plausible deal. They also wondered whether the Palestinians would trust the United States as a peace broker after four years of the Trump administration’s dramatically pro-Israel tilt and a Trump peace plan that the Palestinian Authority leader Mahmoud Abbas, excluded from its devising, declared dead on arrival.'
'Unlike his recent predecessors, Mr. Biden did not appoint a special envoy for Middle East peace or task his secretary of state with trying to forge an agreement between Israel and the Palestinians. Instead, he focused on mediating a normalization agreement between Israel and Saudi Arabia, hoping to leverage Israeli concessions to the Palestinians along the way.'
“It was not a tier-one policy objective to solve this conflict,” 'said David Makovsky, a former peace process negotiator in the Obama administration.' “The goal was to stabilize, and not trying and failing a fifth time.”
'Mr. Biden did not follow through on his promise to reopen a U.S. consulate in East Jerusalem.'
'But even modest efforts proved surprisingly difficult, and some analysts believe that Mr. Biden’s minimalist approach neglected the Palestinians. In particular, Palestinians had hoped Mr. Biden would reverse several Trump-era decisions that downgraded diplomatic ties with the Palestinians and loosened guardrails on Israeli settlement activity in the West Bank.'
'It wasn’t to be.'
'As a candidate, Mr. Biden promised to reopen the Washington office of the Palestine Liberation Organization, which Mr. Trump shuttered, kicking out Palestinian representatives from the nation’s capital. Mr. Biden never acted on the pledge.'
'Nor did he follow through on his promise as a candidate to reopen a U.S. consulate in East Jerusalem — also shut down by Mr. Trump — that had long served as America’s local diplomatic point of contact for the Palestinians.'
'Many Palestinians also hoped that the United States under Mr. Biden would reinstate a State Department legal opinion declaring Israeli settlements in the West Bank to be illegal. Secretary of State Mike Pompeo canceled the opinion, which had been in force for four decades. Secretary of State Antony J. Blinken has not moved to reverse it.' (NYTimes) See gifted link below.
Black journalist and writer Ta-Nehisi Coats delivered a complacency shattering interview on DemocracyNow.org in the second half of today's hour long news program.
None of us would want to miss it.
As for US envoys for Middle East peace, isn't it time to get the usual guardians of the tragic status quo out of the way and finally let a country with lived experience like Ireland or South Africa take the lead?
Shane, the usual "guardians of the tragic status quo" are also, in large part, the very creators and then perpetuators thereof. And yes, we - the US in particular - need to consent to being led for a change, and learn from the experience of others, such as and including Ireland and South Africa - not that there's entire peace in either of those places.
Coats was recently in occupied Palestine and applies his experience with race and discrimination to illuminate matters we have learned to ignore. We, of course, have for decades "adjusted to" excuses for bombing and occupation of country after country and our President has noted that arms production is a jobs program.
This is the problem of painting everyone with the same brush because of the behavior of certain individuals. Religion, like everything else, can be used for good or ill. I am currently, finally, reading Braiding Sweetgrass, where she talks constantly of a world view which sees natural world as a gift and a world view that sees everything as a commodity.
Sheila, Yes! Or listen to the author read it on the audio version. She has a hauntingly sweet voice. I listened to the book first, then went right out to buy the paperback so I could mark it up--then bought several copies to give away. It's a little costly, but worth it for special people!
Her father's morning coffee ritual reawakened my life of gratitude that had become dormant during the first year of the last administration.
I believe I recommended the book to this community some time ago now....
Michele, and everything in the natural world is sacred--whatever one's spirituality or religious beliefs happen to be.
Some Christians have forgotten (or ignored) this. They believe they have dominion over creation, instead of responsibility to care for it (and each other). Thus we have enslavement, abuse of animals, and raping the earth--In my opinion the Garden--all with the implied permission of their particular version of God in Genesis....
Yes. So many people have no respect for other people let alone the earth. I listen every day to drivers roaring up and down our street and street racing at night. We had one instance where late at night a person hit a pedestrian on a nearby street and put the body in his car and drove it out of town and it seems to me just left the car. He did get caught thankfully.
I think in the end we are all persons of some sort of faith, but not all of it is theological, and not all theological faith is authoritarian, but some if it is, and it seems to me no accident that the authoritarian strain of religious interpretation melds with coercion of authoritarian politics. It is the religious spin of those who aim to lord it over others. The other strain aims to liberate, which is the nemesis of authoritarians, and, as was the case for MLK, often met with violence. And not all violence is physical, it often takes the form of pernicious lies, such as racism, sexism, homophobia, etc, that both harms directly and creates environments where material violence is likely to occur.
It seems that many self-proclaimed Christians despise the poorest, worship money and the most monied, and dream of executions and war, seemingly the very antipode of thoughts attributed to Jesus.
The wonderful thing is how these all-powerful church hierarchies produced so many truly great saints and such marvels as the great cathedrals. (Who today could even imagine such music in stone as Hagia Sofia or Amiens cathedral... Or, moving to Islam, the mosques of Iran and Central Asia?)
The hierarchy produced the funding; the stone masons and mosaic artists produced the timeless beauty. I would love to see those mosques in person; thank heavens for the internet so at least I can enjoy photos!
One of the things that fascinates me as an artist was the freemason movement. Was it a movement of well-trained artisans who trained the next generation of artisans so the Cathedrals could be completed? Or was it a political movement? How did those, whose skills gave them a passport to travel, including income and respect, become such a force in Europe? Learning from many cultures is a well-established method of breaking down barriers. Yet, the Catholic Church seeks to create barriers - as in our way or you will be outed as a (pagan, infidel, whore, witch, take your pick) and be stoned, othered, attacked, left to starve. How is that Christian, by the way?
And how many of the authors of the US Constitution were Masons?
The Roman Catholic Church’s history is bathed in blood. Yet my dad became a conscientious objector growing up in the Catholic Church. Why did he “get” it and someone like Brett Kavanaugh become a Supreme Court Justice? Feel like a toddler some days with the constant question why.
Our democracy has been deeply damaged by the actions of those who call themselves Christian, including Evangelicals and Catholics. And the guardrails separating church from state are badly battered. ! You guessed it; why do they do that?
A couple more modern day saints would be helpful. Like my colleagues in the climate movement.
Jennifer, for me, I think that they are so invested in what they want to believe, that they can't recognize the truth, i.e., facts. They have a huge blind spot. It is a common phenomenon among humans, very common. Belief in an afterlife is the prime example.
Reagan-Trump "Republicans" pretend to hate "government" while yet making it more intrusive and heavy-handed upon those not in their club. It's "government of the people, by the people, for the people" neo-"Republicans" have come to despise, as well as the common weal, and it is that they have consistently attacked and dismantled these four plus decades, (just count the ways) in a wealth-fueled quest to reestablish something harking to feudalism.
I’m going to quibble with you. Stalin was not raised Roman Catholic. He attended a Russian Orthodox academy.
Those leaders, like today’s evangelicals, perverted the teachings of the Church. Can you imagine what Jesus would think of the prosperity gospel folks? I’m pretty sure he’d throw them out of the temple, reminding them of camels and eyes of needles.
Me thinks we go through these periods to emphasize and move above the din.
Hopefully enlightenment vs WWIII.
Heather encapsulates with historic precision , her Letters ARE enlightenment . ( Must be her shoes...Lord, I love her shoes!!!!)
We have a real chance here ...here within the clever and careful thoughts spurred by research and knowledge ...and so share we should , good journalism /good writing best encourages.... to rest the chatter of our minds amidst this cacophony .
I read an email this morning about Meta being sued by 41 states for instigating addictive behaviors in teenagers , depression, and suicide.
Me thinks the ‘parental oversight ‘forgot about off buttons/structured time allotted for social things/ and that little word ‘no’ ...which btw needs enforced from day 1. I acknowledge the algorithms , the hard sell techniques, new toys, disinformation, capitalism pitfalls AND the religious/cults/demagoguery being captured by anyone or multiples.
WE have all skirted such or been part of at times ...education is but one key.
Evolving is currently a hot ticket , can we rise and better ourselves...again?
🤣, it was her natural self on 60 Minutes with Judy W. Heather lives in my home state , exudes a gathered , rugged ‘ downeasta’ wholesomeness in her dress and competent carriage, equally the teacher…but the shoes cinched it for me . “Now there’s a level headed woman!” I quipped to my husband , “ check out those shoes!”
Foundations, solid needs, she studies our foundations, well done Heather!
Also, her appearance on the LBJ Library gives a great view of Heather as herself- including the great shoes (I so agree about those!) and a stellar display of her delightful wit.
Wow! You said it, Richard! You will appreciate that every December for reasons I do not know. I get a letter from the RC bishops from Pennsylvania telling me how to vote and asking for money. It’s been fun watching Pope Francis recognizing over population and climate change, when my RC neighbor tells me “God will take care of climate change.” Science began with Galileo’s standing up for what he knew and the embrace of the Enlightenment which began to free us from superstition by studying and writing about what is as opposed to what were products of fearful imaginings.
Thank you. I have a 12 volume set of the writings of Thomas Jefferson, and his abounding curiosity should be an inspiration to the likes of Johnson, if he would be read them.
His fascination with science, and copious correspondence, is astonishing. I am reminded of one small thing, his excitement with a new gadget, the metronome. Musical performances had no fixed way of knowing a composers intent at rhythm, and this wonderful new device made it possible for each movement of any piece to contain a setting for the metronome.
Thank you for writing about Jefferson and the metronome. Having been to Monticello, I knew about his farming interests, but you are reminding us of what a Renaissance man he was.
Thanks for the info about the metronome. I did not know that Jefferson had invented it. Practice with a metronome is a darn near daily exercise for me.
He didn’t, it was originally invented by I think an eastern European . It was patented by a German man. I want to say he heard about it from Lavoisier, whose acquaintance he had made when ambassador to France, but…hey there are 12 volumes.
Good to know. I just know that, without a metronome, I would be incapable of "playing ahead of the beat" which you have to do on the tuba (18' of tubing plus sitting in the back row means making your noise earlier than you think...)
Galileo, one for whom the term "genius" fully applies, managed to calculate a numerical value for objects accelerating due to gravity, a benchmark for Newton and Einstein to build on. Since he had no metronome with which to quantify time, some speculate he used his pulse, but in any case a good-enough way to regulate the measure of time. A pendulum perhaps? He managed to extrapolate free fall from objects rolling down ramps.
Professor, if only you were in Congress! I would love to see you cut these bloviating “Christians” down to size with historical accuracy the way Katie Porter does with financial accuracy.
MAGA's would cover their ears, but I have seen Elizabeth Warren's keen knowledge of subject manner reduce some less prepared officials to awkward silence.
Some of the founding fathers were deists. They believed in a Creator God, who created the universe and left to operate according to the rules the Creator put in place, example gravity.
Jefferson was one such deist. He even created his own version of the Bible, cutting out the parts he disliked. What would Mike Johnson do with Jefferson?
Jefferson's Bible was not about cutting out the parts he didn't like. He was trying to separate the teaching of Jesus from the commentary of Paul and the other commentary written for centuries after Jesus lived.
Jefferson cut out the words attributed to Jesus and glued them into a journal, creating a Bible of Jesus's teachings.
What would Johnson do with Lincoln? Their heads are on the mountain and even on money. They are too famous to dis, and DJT discovered that Lincoln was a Republican, so what to do? I am sure that someone quoting some of Lincoln's less salient writing would be reflexively dismissed as a "Communist" by MAGAs. I notice and morn the removal of Lincoln's Birthday as a national holiday.
Johnson would not be at all pleased with Jefferson's heavily edited Bible.
Plus, the founders knew about auto-da-fé and were trying to popularize the equality of all “men.” They may have been a bit shocked at Abigail Adams, but they didn’t burn her at a stake. Never forget: even if Jesus embraced Mary Magdalene, the Catholic Church only “awarded” souls to women in the 12th century. But still you cannot teach that in public school. (If an international medievalist, a high church Episcopalian, hadn’t said it in class....)
George Lakoff writes about differences between conservatives and liberals. Conservatives tend to be more afraid of change, and difference than liberals. They also tend to seek out authoritarian leaders to feel reassured that someone is in charge, while liberals want more nurturing leaders.
“Conservatism consists of exactly one proposition, to wit: There must be in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect.”
Kanai et al. (2011) found that conservatism was associated with greater gray matter volume in the amygdala, and suggested that this finding may be associated with the emotional and cognitive differences across political orientation, particularly those associated with 'managing fear and uncertainty' (p. 678). (NIH)
This makes so much sense. In situations of perceived threat, the amygdala is activated and stimulates many neurohormones. One effect is that the prefrontal cortex is over-ridden by fear and anger. Rational thought is more difficult and less compelling than the automatic response of avoidance, freezing or attacking.
I’ve had a few conversations with conservatives wherein I try to politely challenge their most basic misinformation. I could literally see their PFC disengage: that “deer in the headlights” look, followed by changing the subject to the next rant.
Clearly there is something neurologically different in their thought processes.
We must never forget the attack on peaceful Black Lives Matter marchers in DC so tfg manbaby could walk across the street and hold a bible upside-down. The troops he called out, the low flying helicopters, would have stopped the Jan 6 rioters cold. The stunt seemed so weird then but makes perfect sense of his intent to me now.
Christopher, 100% of that people list believe in money, not the "Lord". In America, when you see a Republican in government, they are there for the money. No other reason.
That is generally true. But the few that are in it to change America to a theocratic government are really the most frightening. They are not indifferent to money but they absolutely have a different goal. Their culture war positions are not a sop to their base but something they are determined to fight and win. (shiver)
Straight out of the NT, bent on changing a "corrupt" world, a self-serving "called by God" to do "His" bidding.... yours and the comments of others, amplify Heather's essay on the First Amendment. The Enlightenment was toning down the violent consequences of the breakup of Christianity in Europe on both traditional governmental forms and republican innovations....but we of course need to be mindful that the severe anti-Catholic biases of the French Revolution was formidable.
Because when your foundation is an imaginary sky pilot, you can make up what you want to.
I really don't want to put words in Zella's mouth, but my recent experience tells me that many Christians (at least here at LFAAU) do not believe that those who follow a path towards Christian Nationalism are actual Christians, since they do not follow the teachings of Christ.
Thank you, as always Heather. You are right on point tonight.
The "Originalists" of SCOTUS are obviously expressing there opinions as cut from whole cloth. The power to amend our constitution is as original as could be and is proof positive that the founders were aware that unknown future entities, conditions or objects could become necessarary to account for in the legal system, statute and application and understanding of the first ten ammendmends. The AR-15 is such an unknown and the belief expressed by Mike Johnson is expressly and originally unfounded and not allowed. I read the Federalist Papers some sixty- five years ago in a civics class and am a bit rusty, but the quote of Madison makes me wonder about the Federalist Society. Have they ever read the Federalist Papers?
Thank you, Ransom Rideout, I first studied The Federalist in 1956-'57 and reread the papers decades ago, seeking lessons for Europe.
So, I too have often asked myself the same question. Have they ever read the book or is it, like the Bible and The Wealth of Nations, just another fat tome to be waved upside down to impress the foolish?
A name which has no connection to the goal. Chump proved the Bible best used to create an illusion (delusion) for those who never read a book but listened to the purveyors of righteous from an evil perch. The Federalist Society just latched on to a familiar and respected name
Ransom, While I take your point on the power to amend inscribed in the Constitution, I would add that our Founders enlisted a very steep climb for whomever would want to edit them—two-thirds majority in both U.S. legislative chambers and subsequent ratification by three-fourths of the states. I imagine most of us have viewed this threshold as both a blessing and a curse.
Ransom, I imagine you’re right about the justified “original” intent. Still, the Founders’ methodical reasoning doesn’t make me any less frustrated that we are the only country that still enacts an electoral college to elect its president, let alone the other disheartening vestiges that fuel minority rule over the will of the majority. Note I haven’t even gotten started on the 2nd Amendment.
Yes. Heather went deeply into why this was done to go from the Articles of Confederation to the writing of our Constitution. In order for the slave states to ratify, the Electoral Collegewas was to give the South parity in votes because Black Slaves were only three fifths of a white man in the census. The Senate gave the southern states parity beween the states themselves.
It's been sixty years since I studied this stuff. Scroll back through Heather's archive of History Chats.You can get there from her FB page.
On a more frightening note, the T-Rump had an opening campaign rally in Waco,Texas today?yesterday? where he laid out the plan to resurect the Confederacy, basically. Re-establish the Southern Oligahchy as our rulers. They plan to make all our issues irrelevant. This election is no joke. Donate as much as you can to Fair Fight, CREW, Common Cause and others who are waging the legal battles to secure un-molested elections. Google Voting Rights Legal Action Organizations and many will show up.
Can’t think of anyone who epitomizes the Repub party these days more than Santos. At least he doesn’t pretend righteousness. Sorry you are dead and can’t see this, Bill Buckley.
Ransom ... you got 52 LIKES. A lot. That's because of the power of your words and insight I think. And I'm in Athens. The birthplace of democracy. Where they know a Theocracy is not a democracy. So me, and my 20000 tourist friends, and the guides, we salute you and your wisdom. J. ¹
I too am very rusty on the Federalist Papers, but in Heather’s quote from Madison, I was given pause to read. “it is the mutual duty of all to practice Christian forbearance, love, and charity toward each other.” I will explore the context for the reference, but wonder if anyone here can clarify why he refers to to these values as specifically Christian. Is this simply a universal reference that all who read in that time would understand as such? I wonder if a statement like that can be, and is being, used to claim that the founders assumed a specifically Christian value system (however it be individually construed).
I had the same thought. The average Christian will simply see the word Christian and claim it means that we are a Christian nation, meaning the whole of Christianity, and not a circumscribed , era-defined adjective describing the "the mutual duty of all to practice Christian forbearance, love, and charity toward each other.” I (an athiest) went to a Catholic college taught by nuns (for the full tuition scholarship). A common saying was "That's mighty Christian of you." It was meant as a small sarcasm against people who were performative but not sincere in their actions toward others.
That's mighty nice of you to say, Ransom. I try to only post worthwhile additions, but I recognize that these are very long comment threads, and I know that few people will end up reading most of it.
Frustrating sometimes. Several of Heather's followers who followed Steve Schmidt (and Joyce) also have decided to stay in contact after he pissed us off big time last Friday for going to work for Dean Phillips to primary Biden. Six very smart women and one other man maybe. You might appreciate staying in touch too. If so, Kathy Sherpa was the main instigator and a wonderful person about my age(mid-late 70s) and a retired psychaiatrist.
I am sure she will not mind if I pass long her email. I will let her know. Not an active group, but to pass on important information and be there for support in these crazy times. When one sends an email, your thoughtgoes directly and is not lost in the fast moving stream.
Anyway, you sound like you might just fit right in. if you care to, check in with Kathy :
I thought I’d meant practice Christian forbearance...and practice love and charity. But heck, it might have been directed at Christian’s to “practice what you preach!”
I thought about that too and I believe that in the context of the freedom of religious PRACTICE being discussed, he was referring to HIS belief as a Christian and telling those of other denominations or sects, (and there were several) that forebearance would be expected in return from the others. None should claim superiority over another.
I agree with you Victor. Those who believe that their way is the only way will use any excuse to justify themselves. That mention of Christianity is nowhere in the First Amendment and mentioned in any other writing is irrelavent.
Junk Fish Johnson, MAGA head of the House, is burnishing his Trumpist credentials. Seeking to reduce IRS funding by $14 billion is as loony a ‘debt reduction’ initiative as was Trump’s ‘trickle down’ tax giveaway to the wealthy in 2017.
As for his Bible-thumping interpretation of the First Amendment, he is as screwed up as is Trump’s trampling of the Constitution.
In fact, at the time of the Constitutional Convention, various states either supported a specific religion and/or penalized a religion. I believe that Catholics in Delaware were discriminated against. Massachusetts continued to support a specific religion into the 19th century.
The Stench Court is steadily encroaching on the First Amendment’s clear separation of church and state, while Trump’s ‘Christianity’ is a mockery of Jesus’s New Testament message.
Johnson is a fitting leader of The Gang That Couldn’t Shoot Straight.
Sadly, his carnival freak show Is impeding such imperative needs as keeping the government open after mid-November, funding Ukraine (and Israel), and other matters associated with responsible governance.
"Sadly, his carnival freak show Is impeding such imperative needs as keeping the government open after mid-November, funding Ukraine (and Israel), and other matters associated with responsible governance."
Don't hold back Keith!! Way to say it like it truly is.
Read American Crusade: How the Supreme Court is Weaponizing Religious Freedom by Andrew Seidel. Nightmare stuff. The Roberts Court has been tearing down the wall, brick by brick, case by case - with deliberate and incompetent judgements.
'THE AMERICAN ISRAEL Public Affairs Committee, or AIPAC, was the top donor to Rep. Mike Johnson during his most recent campaign, chipping in $25,000 between 2021 and 2022, according to an OpenSecrets analysis of his political contributors. Johnson’s first order of business as speaker of the House is to seek budget cuts in exchange for a $14 billion aid package for Israel.'
'The Louisiana Republican’s proposal for the aid to Israel, which comes as the country continues its unchecked bombardment of Gaza, would strip $14 billion from the Internal Revenue Service, including for a program the agency is developing to allow Americans to file their taxes for free.'
'AIPAC, for its part, is pushing Congress to provide additional funding to Israel amid the ongoing war. In an ominous statement on Monday, AIPAC tweeted, “We strongly support the measure to fully fund critical security assistance for Israel in its fight to destroy Hamas. We recognize that this is the first step in a process that will continue to unfold. Each step of the process, we will work for overwhelming bipartisan Congressional support for this critical assistance.”
'Johnson’s proposal, in its current iteration, faces steep odds in Congress, though it could force Democrats to to choose between voting against aid to Israel and incurring the wrath of the powerful AIPAC lobby, or voting for a bill that will subvert President Joe Biden’s efforts to strengthen the IRS. '
'The bill would also slash funding that would bolster the IRS’s tax evasion enforcement and tax filing assistance. The proposal is a nonstarter with Senate Democrats who have decried the strategy and pointed to a Congressional Budget Office score showing that the move would actually increase the federal deficit. It would also likely be dismissed by Biden, who secured $80 billion to boost the IRS through his Inflation Reduction Act.'
'Biden has called on Congress to pass a $106 billion military assistance package for both Ukraine and Israel. Earlier this week, Secretary of State Antony Blinken reiterated the president’s plea during a Senate hearing, where he was repeatedly interrupted by protesters decrying the administration’s support for the war in Gaza.'
'Johnson, meanwhile, seeks to decouple the Israel military aid from assistance to Ukraine. A bill that provides funding only to Israel may be a hard sell for Democrats who face increasing calls to support a ceasefire — a humanitarian intervention AIPAC has explicitly rejected. (So far, 18 members of Congress have signed onto a resolution urging a ceasefire in Gaza.)' (TheIntercept)
To clarify: AIPAC donates equally to both parties as do so many other entities. There is a large number of American jews who do not support AIPAC and do support Israel for a variety of reasons. The U.S. has always supported Israel and continues support now, for a bunch of reasons, not the least being it is the only Mideast democracy. Our national and international interests are very much buoyed by supporting the worlds' democracies everywhere.
Mike Johnson is among the fervent Christian extremists whose support for Israel lies in their ingenuous desire to convert us Jews to Christians, which we abhor. These are all facts. Facts that too few know. These conversations to be fair must rely on all the facts that are in play, not just the popular ones being bandied about, propped up by a relatively ignorant - and varied - media eager to play our emotions for profit and/or whatever slant they are taking.
It could be said that what we are seeing is democracy being stretched to its limits where every fool gets to have their say in every foolish way now on display. Lesson learned.
Brief background concerning the Palestinians and Israel
'United Nations: The Question of Palestine'
'The Nakba, which means “catastrophe” in Arabic, refers to the mass displacement and dispossession of Palestinians during the 1948 Arab-Israeli war. Before the Nakba, Palestine was a multi-ethnic and multi-cultural society. However, the conflict between Arabs and Jews intensified in the 1930s with the increase of Jewish immigration, driven by persecution in Europe, and with the Zionist movement aiming to establish a Jewish state in Palestine.'
'In November 1947, the UN General Assembly passed a resolution partitioning Palestine into two states, one Jewish and one Arab, with Jerusalem under a UN administration. The Arab world rejected the plan, arguing that it was unfair and violated the UN Charter. Jewish militias launched attacks against Palestinian villages, forcing thousands to flee. The situation escalated into a full-blown war in 1948, with the end of the British Mandate and the departure of British forces, the declaration of independence of the State of Israel and the entry of neighbouring Arab armies. The newly established Israeli forces launched a major offensive. The result of the war was the permanent displacement of more than half of the Palestinian population.'
'As early as December 1948, the UN General Assembly called for refugee return, property restitution and compensation (resolution 194 (II)). However, 75 years later, despite countless UN resolutions, the rights of the Palestinians continue to be denied. According to the UN Relief and Works Agency for Palestine Refugees (UNRWA) more than 5 million Palestine refugees are scattered throughout the Middle East. Today, Palestinians continue to be dispossessed and displaced by Israeli settlements, evictions, land confiscation and home demolitions.'
'The Nakba anniversary is a reminder not only of those tragic events of 1948, but of the ongoing injustice suffered by the Palestinians. The Nakba had a profound impact on the Palestinian people, who lost their homes, their land, and their way of life. It remains a deeply traumatic event in their collective memory and continues to shape their struggle for justice and for their right to return to their homes. In 2022, the UN General Assembly requested that this anniversary be commemorated on 15 May 2023, for the first time in the history of the UN. '(UN) See link below.
Fern, The UN is composed of 195 countries 56 of them are Islamic. They are a very biased organization. Your comments leave out a lot of history. The land that Jordan and Israel occupy had many rulers. You chose to reference the 19th Century but without an unbiased reference point the whole picture is blurred if not irradicated. The Philistines were first to claim ownership. Then the Jews, next the Babylonians, the Byzantine Empire, the Romans, the Crusades, the Ottoman Empire, England's Palestinian Mandate after WWI, WWII, 1948, war of Independence, 1967 war that gave Israel control of the land once again. This land has been jockeyed over for centuries. Here's a little bit more of the history you left out. The Balfour Declaration was signed in 1914, promising Israel a Jewish homeland by Lord Balfour of England and Lord Rothchild that encompassed biblical Palestine. Why? Because Chaim Weitzman, a renowned scientist and influential in England’s politics, convinced them that Israel was being persecuted by mainly Russia but was put in Ghettos all over Europe and deserved to live in their biblical homeland. Note that they were persecuted by Christians since they did not accept Jesus Christ as their Savior FOR CENTURIES. In addition, in 1921, Chaim Weitzman invented Acetone, which helped England win WWI. You might believe England had no right to promise anything, but they had a Palestinian Mandate over the land in question and all Allied powers signed an agreement called the League of Nations in 1923, giving Israel a Jewish homeland. However, that was not the end of the story, because right before this agreement was signed Churchill needed to get Abdullah’s agreement. Abdullah agreed as long as Transjordan was created. This gave the Arabs 80% of the land and 20% went to Israel. Jordan's land stretches all the way to Syria. Israel was reduced to the size of New Jersey. Fast forward to 1948 when Israel fought a war for independence and won. England was counting on them losing, since the whole Arab world were their opponents! A lesser known fact is that Jewish organizations at the end of the 19 th century and beyond bought thousands of acres of land from Arab Sheiks only to get rid of the land Mark Twain said was the ugliest place on earth. They sold to the highest bidder and Jewish organizations hold those deeds. So your argument that Arabs were in the majority and were dispossessed bears closer scrutiny. In fact, Jews were in the majority at that time because they were fleeing Russian pogroms and emigrated with the help of Sokolov and Weitzman to Palestine.
Many thanks for this way more complete look that people can learn about - if they want to, if they want to expand their understanding. The UN's relatively spineless role continues to this day to make pronouncements against Israel in the face of this way deeper story; my step sister who worked there many years ago was a close witness to their waffling on this and other subjects.
It is a disservice to truth, to eventual more peaceful dealings of every sort, to spout UN intransigence uncritically as if theirs
was somehow the only and last word around.
Anti-Israel stands are in themselves a stand for the rule of bullying- should-win. What gives the 22 Arab nations with an immense land mass, with oil, with a vastly larger population the right somehow to call the big shots? Why are they so threatened with the power that tiny little Israel must maintain in the face of such outnumbering? Get a grip.
Thank you Robin for putting things in perspective. I feel like a feather in the wind blowing smoke or maybe more aptly a lone wolf in the wilderness. Yes, the UN is a biased organization. It wasn't always. I remember when its actions matched its rhetoric. I worshipped at the alter of the UN. I named my cat UNO and her brother UNESCO. As a young student, I worked at the UN on the same floor as Dag Hammarskjöld, Swedish diplomat, economist and author. UNESCO is the United Nations Educational, Scientific and Cultural Organization. Their aim is to promote peace and security through international cooperation. The United Nations organization stood for peace dignity and equality. They have been resting on their past performance far too long.
One of the greatest tragedies of modern times is that we created a UN without teeth to enforce its decisions. Thank you for this essential piece of history. It points out the original founding error that will haunt this region forever. Forever.
Bill The reality was that the UN politically could not have been created without a Security Council in which Stalin’s Soviet Union had veto power (along with US, UK, France, and China).
FDR recognized this (unlike Wilson and his God-driven dream of a League of Nations).
There is a bevy of articles on how the Security Council might be changed, including new permanent members. However, I consider the possibility that Russia, China, and the United States giving up the veto power as zero.
The large General Assembly can discuss and vote, but the Security Council is the principal authorizing body, with the veto available to its five permanent members.
Understood. As long as there are Putins and Xis, a world governing organization that values human rights and territorial integrity can't exist. So it has been and always will be. There is no hope. We do the best we can with what we have to work with. Billions of desperate, selfish humans fighting over scraps while billionaires hog the wealth and resources of a wobbly planet.
As a species, we aren't nearly as smart as we think we are.
Fern, there you go again, quoting your UN bible like fundamentalists quote their bible to justify their biases.
Those Jewish militias were formed because Arabs were attacking Jewish settlements. Those Jewish settlements were on land purchased from individuals using donated funds raised in the US and Europe. They were not stolen lands.
The UN partition essentially granted Jews land to form a state that encompassed those settlements plus a buffer of unlivable land, and the jews accepted it. Jordan and Egypt rejected this and exhorted the Arabs to reject it. The 1948 war was waged by those Arab states, a set of disorganized skirmishes which ended up Israel expanding its territory in those DEFENSIVE battles, which gave it the pre-1967 borders.
Your UN document is again, like the last time, totally one sided and composed after the fact to hide years of repeated rejections of chances at peace and total incompetence by the losing side.
I will refrain from labeling the quality of your mind and discourse and any effort to share information with you, Jerry Helfand, is not encouraged by your insults and absolutism. With all, the following books are rather good for helping to understand Israel's war against Hamas: FAILING PEACE by Sara Roy; BLIND SPOT, AMERICA AND THE PALESTINIANS, FROM BALFOUR TO TRUMP by KHALED ELGINDY; SIX DAYS OF WAR by MICHAEL B. OREN; The Hundred Years' War on PALESTINE by Rashid Khalidi.
One: Do you think Israel has a right to exist and defend itself?
Two: Have you ever been there or have you just read about it? Have you talked in person to an Israeli Arab? Have you talked in person to someone injured in one of the wars there?
These are books 'about', not full reality checks and discussions, are meant to reinforce opinions with words. What a difference.
On the ground facts are often much harder to deal with, requiring minds to be open to misinterpretations and their consequences. Anyone can publish any book they want to.
Publishing is not truth per se. Actions tell the actual tale.
'THE AMERICAN ISRAEL Public Affairs Committee, or AIPAC, was the top donor to Rep. Mike Johnson during his most recent campaign, chipping in $25,000 between 2021 and 2022,". Fern, I usually appreciate your comments, because your voice is an important one. IMO. When you quote a statistic like that, it should be balanced with something like this: Jews represent 2% of our population but receive 60% of the violence in this country. Young Jews on college campuses are getting death threats because of unbalanced comments that only quote one side of the equation. Their lives are being made a living hell by organizations like Students for Justice and comments from our congress women like Ilan Omar, Rashida Tlaib and AOC. Ilan Omar declared A Day of Rage against Israel because she thought the failed Hamas rocket launch was sent by Israel. Hamas claimed 500 dead, when the number was 50. HCR stated yesterday that The Hamas controlled Ministry of Health's figures were generally accurate. Perhaps, but the figures they quote include Hamas terrorist operatives and innocent Palestinians they prevent from moving south at gunpoint. My point is that AIPC and ADL influence are being outnumbered by 1.9 billion Muslims in the world, left wing members of congress, and university presidents.. When people that are respected put their thumb on the scale, they are promoting bigotry in the minds of those on this newsletter and the public at large IMHO. ADL Is a Jewish org. that specializes in civil rights law and combats antisemitism and extremism, would that Iran had a similar org.. The American Israel Public Affairs Committee ( AIPAC) is a lobbying group that advocates pro Israel policies. A quick search of the internet found 15 Christian lobbying org. with the following statistics:Total for Clergy & Religious Organizations: $4,725,000
Total Number of Clients Reported: 15
Total Number of Lobbyists Reported: 58
Total Number of Revolvers: 18 (31.0%)
Try finding a website that takes the Israeli side in any of the conflicts between the Palestinians and Israel. You won't. If you key in Hamas, you may get a hit, but there is always justification for their acts of aggression.
In summary, Israel is fighting a propaganda war that they are losing, because as I said, there are 1.9 billion Muslims and 16 million Jews. Israel's war has never been about murdering innocent Palestinians. Their war has been with Hamas, a proxy as Hezbollah, the Houthi's and Iraq are. I am no fan of Mike Johnson or Netanyahu. Mike Johnson is being led by the Freedom party, a group of white supremacists and Christian Fundamentalists, who do not give a hoot about Israel. MTG and Rand Paul don't want to fund Israel or Ukraine. The Freedom party would throw Israel under the bus tomorrow given the opportunity. Netanyahu, I believe is on his way out. His response to the 10/7 attack opened Pandora's box and gave credibility to all the antisemites and Jew haters in the world. Hamas doesn't need anymore help from people that should know better.
Unchecked bombardment?? Those are targeted attacks on Hamas operations hidden underground using civilians living above as shields. Those are targeted operations initiated after warning civilians to leave, after weeks of telling civilians to leave. What other army tells its enemy where it's going to attack to give civilians a chance to get to safety?
And a cease fire?? There was a cease fire that was broken by Hamas on Oct 7. Hamas charter calls for eradication of Israel and the killing of all Jews worldwide. It has been launching rockets into Israel since at least 2005 on an almost weekly basis.
The Palestinians were offered peace in the Oslo accords. They rejected total autonomy and international support.
Yes, I support humanitarian pauses to allow civilians to get out of harms way. But let a nihilistic terrorist group like Hamas, which terrorizes its own people as well as Israel, keep its terror capabilities? We're not crazy.
Please start supporting the Palestinians by condemning Hamas.
Are you living in Gaza? I'm not telling you what to do. The IDF warns civilians to get out of the way of targeted attacks focused on Hanas centers of terror operations. The IDF has been telling civilians to leave northern Gaza for weeks. There is southern Gaza as an area that is away from the most intense operations against Hamas.
Or should Israel just keep tolerating Hamas' promised continued attacks on Israel (just repeated today on US media)?
Tell me. What should Israel do to defend itself? Or shouldn't it?
“Only in Washington when you cut spending do they call it an increase in the deficit,” For an intelligent, successful man(M. Johnson) to pump this kind of non-sense, shows that he's pandering to and taking advantage of - a particular audience. The non-partisan CBO lays it out as plain as day that defunding the IRS is a bad idea. So this shows me that powerful rich people are at work influencing Congress to let them keep more than their share of income and put the tax burden on the working class. I remember when trump did that tax cut and the average Joe got a few hundred dollars while the rich got thousands, millions, and billions. This drove up the deficit and cut services to the public. 'But we ain't care. we could now afford to buy a whole carton of cigarettes and case of beer !'
Nov 26, 1932, quote by Will Rogers “The money was all appropriated for the top in the hopes that it would trickle down to the needy. Mr. Hoover didn’t know that money trickled up. Give it to people at the bottom and people at the top will have it before night, anyhow. But it will at least have passed through the poor fellow’s hands.” I personally think that Mr. Hoover knew damn well that money trickled up, so do current greedy bastards. They just want a direct line
Dogs under a feudal lord's table would have been far better off than America's poorer citizens.
I spoke of a new feudalism a long time ago. However, I maligned feudalism -- in which there was a degree of reciprocity, serfs receiving protection and the right to a proportion of their produce in exchange for their services. Even chattel slaves were housed and fed. As for interactions, it was African slaves who showed their masters in the deep South how to farm their land, given their experience of similar conditions in Africa. Conditions unfamiliar to immigrants from temperate climes.
Under Jim Crow, there is no responsibility, no true interaction, blacks were and still are at best ignored, at worst imprisoned or lynched.
The word "Economics" derives from the ancient Greek "oikonomia", meaning household management. Under the pseudo-economics proposed by the champions of oligarchy, America's poorest have a status midway between that of the dogs that live outside human habitations in the third world... and vermin. Perilously close to the outlook of Germany's Nazi Party and consequent policies... strongly influenced by America's Jim Crow laws.
["Woke" is a useful bogeyman for Fascists & friends but the reality is that the woke and their fans are almost all still half asleep and dreaming confused dreams. If woke were in any way proportionate to the oppression suffered over centuries, there would indeed be cause for fear. The idiots want to hide the pus suppurating from a deep, deep wound. They don't realize that they risk creating the very reaction that their own deep-buried guilty conscience fears.]
Your comment shows you're way above my pay grade, although Greek Civilization was part of my double major in education. Comments like yours restore my faith in humanity. There are a number of people on this newsletter that speak to me and that I don't always agree with, but I respect their point of view, hard as it is for me to accept.
You're kind, Eadie, but... “above my pay grade”? Surely not.
After all, I often find it hard to accept my own point of view. My head's quite sure of it, my heart needs time to catch up.
Aren't we all like that, those of us who aren't saints or touched by genius?
I just find it great that we can talk to each other here, talk seriously, gossip, joke, talk about ourselves, talk of the world, talk of our ideas, our beliefs, our commitments, talk about history and what is happening now—talk about what it can all mean.
Some of the things I write, it hurts me to think, it's painful to express, it hurts me to worry that in speaking of things foul I may be fouling myself and others.... The worst thing about evil is how it sticks to you even when you think of it, it sticks and it stains.
More important, always, to seek the truth and try to express it.
It's a rare privilege to meet with people who are doing just that, and there are no few of them here. Thank goodness for that!
The robber barons “tried” to take care of their poorly paid “slaves,” with shanties, company stores and such. A pathetic effort as most have been throughout history. Samuel Gompers is why I am a Dem. Love his take on “economics…”The man who has millions will want everything he can lay his hands on and then raise his voice against the poor devil who wants ten cents more a day.”
Just need to add that "woke" in this context is a long way from the word's meaning, when "woke" meant ownership of one's own feelings about one's self and one's value as a human being, I heard it first used by friends in the black community, then expanded by allies seeking awareness about the reality of black lives in America. Some of those folks were more insightful at that than others. The word as it is used here has been twisted beyond recognition from the original intent. Peter, you are usually more insightful. This disappoints and saddens me. I think I understand what you think youare trying to communicate, but I think instead you just kind of shot past it.
I’m sorry, Annie, but now you’re teaching me, and I’m grateful for that. I’d always taken it that “woke” simply meant “awake”—and I understand that is one common current meaning in America.
So, isn’t “awake to myself” where waking up begins, then “alive to myself”… next, waking up to “I’m a man/a woman”?
All that’s gut feeling; awakening to thought follows on after those first stirrings—I, for instance, make a habit at this stage of remembering the presence of my teacher just before I rise to my feet. And that’s the same as awakening to my worth as a human being, indeed the same as remembering that we human beings are all, in the deepest possible—yet hard to imagine—sense, equal.
*
Now, if I spoke in terms of “awake” and “asleep”, it is because I am very much aware that I, too, am more than half asleep. Here’s a quick explanation, if people can grasp what it, a dream, means. (It’s a bit like another dream in which someone knocked at the door, I opened, and… it was ME.)
*
So, I was sixteen years old, at boarding school.
I woke up one morning, got out of bed, walked from the dormitory to the bathroom and had a shower.
Then I realized that I hadn’t woken up at all, I was still in my bed, still asleep, still dreaming.
But I wanted to get up, so I got up. This time, I shaved and got dressed, then realized, yet again, that I hadn’t woken up at all, I was still in my bed, fast asleep.
I went down the stairs.
Same again.
This repeated eleven—11—times. I went to my desk downstairs, I went to chapel for morning prayers, I came back, I looked at my work, I got out all my books—by the ninth time, I was getting desperate.
The eleventh dream found me at the door of the classroom building. Here, at last I really opened my eyes.
*
We believe we’ve woken up, we believe we’re wide awake. Are we?
*
I didn’t need to say more than that we are all equal.
Yet, why am I always coming back to those five words that open Article 1 of the German Basic Law: “Die Würde des Menschen ist unantastbar”? Five words for which no one knows how many died, no one knows how many were maimed, no one can imagine the immensity of suffering. This is translated as “Human dignity shall be inviolable” but I’m struck by Würde/worth, Menschen/man, tast/touch. Don’t mess with man’s worth. Or, in Robbie Burns’ Scots: “A man’s a man for a’ that”.
Jeri, this is one of my favorite quotes. I agree that current oligarchs know full well that giving someone a hand up doesn’t weaken them—look how they contribute to their children’s education instead of making them take out student loans.
I have never been an oligarch, but we paid for my daughter’s education. That was back in a time when it was possible for non-oligarch’s to do that. Then the loan sharks found that it was a great scam, about the time that colleges changed to what the traffic would bear. I have to say that inherited wealth tends to make some second generation wealthy kids pretty useless creatures. Us scrappers never had to worry about anything but survival. But the humans among us realize that helping the needy is not only a real Christian tenet but a human moral tenet as well.
Jeri, well said. I’ve never understood why some Christians believe that helping the needy does them harm. My point is that these same people don’t believe that helping their children does them harm (only the poor people and their children).
Exactly, "helping only makes them dependent." How many times have we heard that. With absolutely no idea what some people face every day. And, no interest in having a clue.
Jeri, I can’t count the number of times that I’ve heard someone say “we don’t have much, but I’m damned if we’re going to take handouts from the government “.
My uncle used to tell me that "if you distributed all the money on earth equally, the same folks who had it at first , would end up with it again". It feels good the say that. But it s not 100% accurate. : )
You are correct. Powerful people, billionaires that want more tax cuts by defeuding the IRS. Israel is fighting a propaganda war and their worst enemy is the rethuglican freedom party. They give Jews a bad name and give Hamas a leg up. The freedom party does not care about Israel. Their support just feeds into the Christian fundamentalist cult that Jews will be saved if they accept Jesus Christ.
The Constitutional Convention was not a synod. The Federalist Papers did not originate from various church councils and other religious hierarchies. The Southern Baptist Convention didn't exist at the time, thankfully. Most of all, to my mind, what the framers intended over all of it, was that freedom of religion also brought freedom from religion, the latter being more important.
People like Mike Johnson use their religion. their god, to justify imposing their will on their fellow citizens, while shirking personal responsibility. People have used religion to that end for millennia. I believe that is exactly what the framers sought to avoid.
I believe there is no greater danger from within the US government than Speaker (and Christifascist) Mike Johnson. I pray that the investigations that have already uncovered that he has never reported having a checking or savings account in his financial disclosure forms... that he “adopted without adopting” a 14 year old Black boy when he was 25... that he offered legal services to an anti-gay, conversion therapy organization ... continue and expose him for the extreme and possibly even perverted person he is... resulting in a Blue Wave in 2024 that weakens the GOP to a point of near irrelevancy... thereby saving democracy.
I truly hope that SOMEONE gets to the bottom of never having a checking or savings account. I’m guessing his salary isn’t paid in cash. Who vetted this person?
Changing the belief in any myth and superstition is an exercise in futility. People fervently believe that their eternal existence is more important than their earthly existence. Consequently they will do almost anything to exhibit their commitment to their beliefs. They much prefer faith to facts.
They prefer ignorance to learning. They think head in the sand is a safe position. I know them well. True for some chump haters as well as most chump lovers.
It's true, Colette, but it isn't sad -- it's life! Constitutions, democratic institutions are living things and need to be cherished, fed, watered by every generation -- or they die.
We -- by which I mean successive generations -- have taken these things, our rights and our responsibilities to ourselves and to one another, for granted.
We have neglected them. We have put them on an altar, worshipping them, proclaiming them in creeds mumbled, sung or shouted, the better to forget them... and forget ourselves.
Great recap on the accounting irony. The narrative is very thin. The House isn't hiding the motivations to protect the rich GOP donors. A double standard
In order to make sure men had the right of conscience, the First Amendment to the Constitution reads: “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof….”
I worry that a strict interpretation of this would allow the Executive and Judicial branches free rein to regulate the way we practice religion... or choose not to.
Especially since authoritarians seem to favor the "unitary executive" and a Supreme Court that seems to distort history, becoming, in effect, an "activist court" beyond any checks or balances.
Bob, it's my worry, too. The fundamentalists on SCOTUS do it all the time. And it's patently clear that anyone who takes a "literal" interpretation of the Bible is using that insanely contracdictory and man-made document any way they want to to justify anything they want. Of course they're going to perform the same moral gymnastics with the Constitution, Declaration, and our legal system.
How can we avert our eyes from Gaza? The punishment for nothing they have done that Netanyahu is inflicting on the Palestinians is ghastly. He was using Hamas as a way to keep the Palestinian Authority at bay. Antisemitism is on fire. We are witnessing the effects of what the egos of Putin, Netanyahu, Trump and their ilk do to 'civilization'.
'Israeli strikes on Gaza refugee camp offer glimpse of war’s destruction' (WAPO, excerpt)
JERUSALEM — Kamal Masoud was at home with his wife and five children on Tuesday afternoon in the Jabalya refugee camp. They were talking about how to survive a bombardment when the Israeli missiles struck.
“The entire area was wiped out,” Masoud told The Washington Post by phone, hours after a series of Israeli strikes devastated his neighborhood in the northern Gaza Strip, flattening several residential buildings and leaving gaping craters in the concrete.'
'More than 110 people were killed and hundreds more wounded in the attack, according to doctors at two nearby hospitals, in what appeared to be the deadliest aerial assault by Israel since the war began. The final toll remained unclear, Palestinian officials said, because victims were still trapped under the rubble.'
'Masoud and his family survived. But 30 of his relatives were killed, he said, among them children as young as 2 months old.'
'Israeli strikes on Jabalya refugee camp kill and injure hundreds in Gaza'
“There is no safe place in the invasion,” he said of Israel’s ground operations, which have steadily expanded since Friday — part of what Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu has called the “second phase of the war.”
'The strike on Jabalya offers a glimpse of the destruction wrought across Gaza by Israel’s relentless air war, and the grave dangers facing civilians as Israeli ground forces move deeper into the enclave. At least 8,796 Gazans have been killed since the start of the conflict, according to Gaza’s Health Ministry, and 22,219 wounded.'
'By geolocating the edges of the destruction and comparing it with satellite imagery, The Post determined that the scale of the damage spanned roughly 50,000 square feet — nearly the size of a football field — and that the strike toppled or scarred more than a dozen buildings. Debris from the explosion appears to have blackened rooftops in multiple directions.' (WAPO) See gifted link below.
I do not believe we are diverting our eyes, We must breathe. We must do all we can to save OUR nation in order that we will be able be there for others. This requires meaningful action and clear communucation, which, so far is still allowed but in great danger in this country.
Netanyahu is a criminal. Now he is a war criminal. Almost all here are very aware and angry about the situation in Gaza,
So true. Albert Schweitzer once said “Think occasionally of the suffering of which you spare yourself the sight.” Most of us do, and are bombarded daily with so much that is hard to bear. Others keep up with the Kardashians…
Ransom Rideout, I think that a great number of people are diverting their eyes from the horror being vested upon those Palestinians in the Gaza strip because any criticism of Israel is seen as being anti-Semitic. It is impossible to be upset by both the Hamas attack and by the Israeli response without being taken to task by one group or the other. Jessica Craven had a good piece on November 1 over that very thing. It is worth the read.
I have not opened Jessica's piece yet. She's good. My point was only that we here are all aware of the attrocities from each side, and when we are dealing with our own survival, especially in regard to being able to help others, saving ourselves is of even greater importance. You can't save anyone if you can't save yourself first. This is every bit as important.
Critisism of Israel can never be equated with anti-Semitism. It is legitamate and one can not turn a blind eye to reality. A large number, the majority, of Israelie's are outraged by Netanyahu. Critisizing the government of Israel is in support of THEM. Netanyhu and his party are so far to the right as to justify being called Fascists. He does not represent the majority in Israel.
I am fine with being attacked. I will not bend history. The Jewish people were pawns in a European power play to justify a military presence in the Middle East to oversee the oil rich sheikdoms it had just created and settle a debt. The Jewish people and the Palestinians are both the victims.
As noted in Heather's letter we were all reading, there is serious business to attend to that has a direct effect on that woman's comment. The immages are burned into our conciousness. Our eyes are necessary to attend to that business.
Ally, you made a crucial point. Those who question Israel's military obliteration of Gaza, along with many of the 2.3 Palestinians who live there are often targeted. Any questioning of Israeli's policies toward the Palestinians before the war and now is forbidden and that includes any criticism of Biden essentially continuing Trump's policies, while promising important support for them when he was a candidate. In the spirit of your thinking, to have a great deal of respect for Biden does not mean that he is or could be 'perfect'.
Perfection is not possible. In a political world there is much bending and balancing going on. His hug of Netanyahu is a point of contention, but part of that balancing act. Netanyahu has ignored Biden's words of caution to his own peril.
Perfection is not possible. In a political world there is much bending and balancing going on. His hug of Netanyahu is a point of contention, but part of that balancing act. Netanyahu has ignored Biden's words of caution to his own peril.
'WASHINGTON (AP) — The U.S. has already begun delivering critically needed munitions and military equipment to Israel, the White House said Monday, as the Pentagon reviews its inventories to see what else can be sent quickly to boost its ally in the three-day-old war with Hamas.'
'John Kirby, a spokesman for the National Security Council, confirmed Monday evening that the first batch of military aid in the wake of the violent assault by Hamas militants is “making its way” to Israel.'
“We fully expect there will be additional requests for security assistance for Israel as they continue to expend munitions in this fight,” Kirby said. “We will stay in lockstep with them, making sure that we’re filling their needs as best we can and as fast as we can.” (AP) See link below.
Horrific things are done in war--What "took the cake" was dropping the atomic bomb on Hiroshima and Nagasaki. We seem to have a short attention span when it comes to our own horrific past.
There will be no peace in the Hamas/Israel war until three things happen,: Hamas is eradicated, Israeli's get rid of the corrupt current government and its ties to its own ultra-nationalist right wing that is fomenting an expansion in the West Bank, and a government is established for the Palestinians that actually cares about the people.
In the meantime the top priority has to be preventing the war from involving more states. Biden is walking a tightrope where he is trying to protect the Palestinians by pushing for aid and trying to use leverage on the Israelis while keeping the conflict from widening. The arms to Israel is symbolic, along with the repositioned carriers, and is messaging to keep other states out. None of Israel's neighbors are willing to take in more Palestinians which is why Egypt is not opening the crossings to allow more than a trickle of aid in to Gaza. Biden is having to cajole Egypt to let even that in. Hamas, which is using Gazans as human shields doesn't want them to leave either. They are the true evil actors here and their intent is to destroy Israel and to use the bombing to get more recruits among the Gazans. Their true intent there is clear from the fact that they did nothing in advance of the initial terrorist attack to store food and water and fuel and medicines for the general population. Iran also wants to derail all of the efforts for Arab nations to normalize relations with Israel that were close to completion before the Hamas attack.
There are always wrongs on all sides in wars. Here in the United States the polarization is being stoked with attacks and threats on Muslims and Jews. It's being stoked by disinformation on both sides. It's being used to create dysfunction in our own government. We have to recognize the full scope of what is happening and understand what Biden is trying to do. Repudiating Israel will guarantee it is attacked by all of the Iranian allied forces in the area and that will kill more Israelis, Palestinians inside Israel, and give a greenlight to the far right Nationalists in Israel to go on their own rampage in retaliation. Does that ultimately make things better?
'Before Oct. 7, analysts were fretting more about the West Bank, not Gaza, as the potential spark for an explosion of Israeli and Palestinian violence. The calendar year had seen a surge in violence involving Palestinians and Israeli settlers — the latter emboldened by a coterie of influential far-right ministers holding top positions in the cabinet of Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu. Human rights groups tracked an escalation in attacks by armed setters, who stormed through Palestinian villages, vandalized Palestinian property and destroyed Palestinian crops. A tense security environment saw an uptick in Palestinian militancy, with Israel’s military deploying the bulk of its manpower to counter perceived threats in the West Bank.'
'Even before the Islamist group Hamas’s bloody rampage through southern Israeli towns and kibbutzim three weeks ago, which triggered a punishing, brutal Israeli response, 2023 was the deadliest year for Palestinians in the West Bank in two decades. But in the aftermath of the deadliest day in Israel’s history, the scales have tipped even further. In the shadow of the war in Gaza, Israeli settlers have ramped up their attacks on Palestinian communities in the West Bank. Groups of settler vigilantes, some roaming around on ATVs, have set fire to Palestinian homes. A Palestinian man harvesting olives was gunned down by a Jewish settler this weekend.'
'The Israeli human rights group B’Tselem says at least seven Palestinians have been killed by Israeli settlers since the war in Gaza began; more than 100 Palestinians in the West Bank have been killed by Israeli forces over the same time period, according to the United Nations, as tensions boil over. Hundreds of Palestinians have been driven from their homes by settlers, who appear to be acting with a degree of impunity. It has raised fears among Palestinians in the West Bank that the current febrile moment could be a prelude to a wider campaign of violence and expulsion.'
“The war in Gaza gave the settlers the green light,” Tariq Mustafa, who fled his home in the Bedouin community of Wadi Siq after threats from armed settlers, told my colleagues. “Before, they would yell at us to go to Ramallah. Now they are telling us to go all the way to Jordan.”
'The Israeli campaign against Hamas, entrenched in the Gaza Strip, is understandably dominating attention. But it’s allowed an already deteriorating situation in the West Bank to drift in an alarming direction.'
“The lack of attention has allowed the settlers and their enforcement bodies, official (the military and the police) and semi-official (the settlements’ security officers and right-wing volunteers acting as escorts), to escalate their attacks against Palestinian herders and farmers with a clear goal: to expel more communities from their land and homes,” wrote Haaretz journalist Amira Hass.'
'According to the Israeli human rights organization Yesh Din, settlers attacked Palestinians in the West Bank on 100 different occasions and in at least 62 locations from Oct. 7 to Oct. 22 — with that figure undoubtedly higher a week later. But the violence is part of a deeper trend. According to September U.N. data, 12 percent of Palestinian herding communities in the West Bank had been forced from their homes because of settler intimidation and violence.'
“The Israeli government is supportive of these attacks and does nothing to stop this violence,” noted a recent statement from 30 Israeli human rights groups and civil-society organizations. “On the contrary: government ministers and other officials are backing the violence and in many cases the military is present or even participates in the violence, including in incidents where settlers have killed Palestinians.”
'Netanyahu’s far-right government includes a number of extremist politicians who specifically champion the expansion of settlements in the West Bank and the annexation of some of its land — moves that are viewed broadly by the international community as illegal and an impediment to the creation of a viable Palestinian state. The latter is a cause rejected outright by figures such as like Finance Minister Bezalel Smotrich and National Security Minister Itamar Ben Gvir, who emerged from the far-right fringes of Israeli politics to positions of influence in Netanyahu’s cabinet. Smotrich infamously called this year for the flattening of an entire Palestinian town in the West Bank. Ben Gvir, in recent weeks, has gone about various Israeli towns and West Bank settlements distributing high-powered guns to local civilians.'
'Jewish settler population in West Bank passes half a million'
'Their increasing clout and angry worldview have hung over a year of spiraling violence in the West Bank. And it may be all the more validated as Israeli attitudes grow more hawkish in the wake of Hamas’s atrocities. About half a million settlers live in the West Bank, in settlements that abut the lands and homes of a Palestinian population six times their number. For the Israeli right, their security concerns are paramount. For Palestinians, life under a relentless military occupation is only stoking further despair and radicalization. Since Oct. 7, Israeli security forces have detained hundreds of Palestinians in the West Bank as part of a wider crackdown on potential militancy.'
“Israel’s sweeping security measures in the West Bank are an extension of its war against Hamas in Gaza, an attempt to eliminate the militant group and permanently shift the balance of power in a conflict that has raged for decades,” my colleagues reported a week ago. “But many Palestinians and some analysts warn the measures could have the opposite effect. Hamas’s presence is limited in the West Bank, where the rival Fatah movement holds power, but many of its aims are shared by a new generation of militant groups that have taken up arms here over the last year. The fighters are young, loosely organized and opportunistic.”
'Sensing the looming troubles, the Biden administration has urged Israel to rein in its extremist settlers. President Biden said last week that their actions and incitement were “pouring gasoline” on an already volatile situation. But in the current climate, with Netanyahu bent on a “mighty vengeance,” that’s easier said than done.'
“A responsible Israeli government would approach Israel’s challenge in the West Bank as the two-front battle that it truly is: against Palestinian and Jewish violence alike,” wrote Alex Lederman of the Israel Policy Forum. “But this problem transcends Israel’s current political reality. Just as this war is prompting Israelis to question long-held assumptions about how Israel should navigate the challenges posed by Hamas in Gaza, it should also spur a reckoning about the unnecessary and avoidable security burden posed by the settlement movement.”
'In the West Bank, ordinary Palestinians are bracing for worse to come. “Fear fills the air as people remember a 2002 Israeli invasion that destroyed much of the West Bank’s infrastructure and left many people dead,” wrote Ramallah-based journalist Dalia Hatuqa. “A repetition of that invasion is the specter in people’s minds as they clear out grocery store shelves, anticipating another stretch of long days being trapped inside due to an army curfew which may or may not come.” (WAPO, By Ishaan Tharoor
Ishaan, foreign affairs columnist at The Washington Post, where he authors the Today's WorldView newsletter and column.) Copied in full from October 31, 2023 at 2:02 a.m. EDT.
Thanks for the article on the West Bank situation. What has to be remembered is that 450,000 out of 9.5 million Israelis demonstrated against Netanyahu and his far right coalition just a few months ago . There are people of good conscience who seek peace everywhere.
Thank you for adding this. It points out both how horrible the plight of the Gazans is and how Hamas places no priority on the basic well-being of those people. In fact, it does not look like the slow death of innocent Gazan children from disease and starvation means any more to Hamas than the quick brutal murder of Israeli innocent ones.
I live in an area close to NYC and my daughter's middle school classmates lost parents in 9/11. The repercussions of that terrorist act still linger, but this is more shocking because the Hamas attack intentionally killed children. And now more innocent children are being killed by the Israeli response attempting to destroy Hamas.
I am not ignoring the whole long, complicated history of the Middle East, but 9/11 hit close to home for me, and I pass the memorials to those dead every time I go into the center of my town. I remember going to a lookout point and seeing the smoke rising form the rubble at the World Trade Center. The Hamas act that started this next phase in the Middle East wars seems so much more brutal. And it is so clear to me that that was the intent.
Exactly. Biden is balancing on a swinging tightrope in a heavy wind. Everything he does will anger someone. The far right in Israel are asking for it, beliving the unlimited US military support will allow them to do whatever they want. Netanyahu is their boy and he needs a war to stay out of jail.
Very many moving parts and a long complicated history.
Thank you for your thoughts regarding this. I HOPE Biden is doing the right thing...he always does...this situation is extremely difficult and he has to win the next election for all our sakes.
Fern Murder is murder, whether it’s Hamas brutal savagery in slaughtering Israelis or Netanyahu’s slaughtering countless thousands of Palestinians civilians who have no where to escape air strikes and Israeli Defense Force ground attacks.
I fervently hope that the United States is not rushing to Israel artillery shells and support for the Israeli Air Force, while Gaza Palestinians are experiencing greater short-term killing than Putin has inflicted on Ukrainian civilians.
Professor (Emeritus), I think you are forgetting something. HAMAS is actually killing both Palestinians (by forcing the people of Gaza to be human shields which they hide behind under ground) and Israelis in their homes. And, yes Netanyahu belongs in jail.
I don't think we are forgetting anything, it is just that this criminal who has done more than any neo-Nazi to foment anti-Semitism, is doing just what those who planned and executed the deliberately vile attack on Israeli citizens expected and wanted him to do.
Just as those who planned 9/11 meant it to trigger a chain reaction bomb. And more than succeeded -- thanks to Bush Cheney Rumsfeld et al.
This time the trap was even nastier and more cunningly set. And the victims on both sides are ordinary human beings. For the key Hamas planners, probably in safety elsewhere, Gaza citizens too are at once expendable and useful as martyrs.
I read that on the West Bank fanatical Jewish settlers have been launching pogroms against their Palestinian neighbors.
Someone must step in fast and stop this playing with fire near to gasoline.
(Danger, then, of a Waco scenario -- more martyrs to an ultra-extremist cause.)
Peter, they are living in tunnels, under Shifa hospital in Qatar. You hit the nail on the head. Israel is fighting a propaganda war and Netanyahu opened Pandora's box. I believe Israeli's will vote him out of office. Whether he goes to jail for his corruption is still questionable. He and tRump would make interesting bedfellows.
Corrections. The Hamas fighters are in a deep tunnel network, especially -- according to Israeli sources -- under hospitals and schools. And the Shifa hospital is in Gaza, not Qatar.
I'd say that Hamas blasted the lock on Pandora's box and Netanyahu and his extremist bedfellows opened the lid wide when they promised and delivered, not justice but deliberate vengeance.
That said, any government of any country would have faced an almost impossibly difficult situation if presented with a comparable attack on its citizens and cities coming from a small, densely populated entity. This is what makes the ruthlessly cynical Hamas move so diabolically effective. The accumulation of arms, together with the complex tunnel network under Gaza make for a trap both military and political, one into which the Hamas planners fully intended to draw the IDF, in the knowledge that any Israeli attack must harm their own civilians and, in so doing, isolate Jews and non-Muslims, provoking a wave of hatred for kafirun and, in particular, for America, seen as guarantor of oppression.
Sorry, of course you're correct. I think I was mistaken about the whole operation. Gaza City is where I thought Shifa hospital was located, however, the article didn't mention the name of the hospital I read. It is probably because the commander of operations was in a tunnel along with other terrorist operatives under a bldg, not the Shifa hospital, that Israel bombed. They bombed the the tunnels that led to the foundation collapsing and anyone near that bldg. was killed.
'More than 3,600 Palestinian children were killed in the first 25 days of the war between Israel and Hamas, according to Gaza’s Hamas-run Health Ministry. They were hit by airstrikes, smashed by misfired rockets, burned by blasts and crushed by buildings, and among them were newborns and toddlers, avid readers, aspiring journalists and boys who thought they’d be safe in a church.'
'Nearly half of the crowded strip’s 2.3 million inhabitants are under 18, and children account for 40% of those killed so far in the war. An Associated Press analysis of Gaza Health Ministry data released last week showed that as of Oct. 26, 2,001 children ages 12 and under had been killed, including 615 who were 3 or younger.'
“When houses are destroyed, they collapse on the heads of children,” writer Adam al-Madhoun said Wednesday as he comforted his 4-year-old daughter Kenzi at the Al Aqsa Martyrs Hospital in the central Gaza city of Deir al-Balah. She survived an airstrike that ripped off her right arm, crushed her left leg and fractured her skull.'
'Israel says its airstrikes target Hamas militant sites and infrastructure, and it accuses the group of using civilians as human shields. It also says more than 500 militant rockets have misfired and landed in Gaza, killing an unknown number of Palestinians.'
“Gaza has become a graveyard for thousands of children,” said James Elder, a spokesperson for UNICEF, the U.N. children’s agency.
'Images and footage of shell-shocked children being pulled from rubble in Gaza or writhing on dirty hospital gurneys have become commonplace and have fueled protests around the world. Scenes from recent airstrikes included a rescuer cradling a limp toddler in a bloodied white tutu, a bespectacled father shrieking as he clutched his dead child tight to his chest, and a dazed young boy covered in blood and dust staggering alone through the ruins.' (AP) See link below.
There is no reason, bruce klassen, for you to think that Keith Wheelock is forgetting anything. He is pointing to the Israel military attacks on Jabalya refugee camp and that there is so safe place in Gaza for the more than 2.3 million Palestinians who live there.
'The Roman historian Tacitus famously conjured a line that still resonates from antiquity. “They make a desert, and call it peace,” concluded a bitter Caledonian enemy of the Romans, whose speech reproduced in Tacitus’s chronicle decried the injustices wrought by the powerful empire as its legions rampaged across the land.'
'Israeli politicians, including Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, cast their ongoing campaign in the Gaza Strip as a war of justice and retribution against the savagery of Islamist group Hamas, which is responsible for the single deadliest assault on Israel since the Jewish state’s founding. In a shock Oct. 7 raid, militants infiltrated across the fortified border and killed some 1,400 Israelis in numerous town and kibbutzim, while abducting more than 230 hostages.'
'In their zeal to punish Hamas, Israel has already triggered a deep humanitarian crisis for the besieged enclave of 2.3 million people and killed more than 8,500 people, including over 3,500 children, and destroyed thousands of buildings in the crammed territory amid relentless aerial bombardments. A statement from UNICEF, the U.N. children’s agency, called Gaza “a graveyard for thousands of children” — such is the shocking rate by which Israeli airstrikes are pulverizing homes and the families sheltering within. “It’s a living hell for everyone else,” the statement said.'
'The latest brutal hit took place Tuesday when Israeli forces dropped bombs on the densely populated Jabalya refugee camp in northern Gaza, ostensibly to eliminate a senior Hamas military commander. But the bombs flattened a whole neighborhood — destroying some 20 buildings, according to local accounts — and killing more than 100 people. My colleagues reported that Israel also carried out subsequent strikes on the area.'
“I was waiting in line to buy bread when suddenly and without any prior warning seven to eight missiles fell,” an eyewitness, Mohammad Ibrahim, told CNN. “There were seven to eight huge holes in the ground, full of killed people, body parts all over the place. It felt like the end of the world.”
'The scale and speed of what’s taking place has horrified many onlookers. Over the weekend, Craig Mokhiber, the director of the New York office of the U.N. high commissioner for human rights, resigned his post, arguing that the United Nations was once again failing to thwart what he described as a “textbook case for genocide.”
“The current wholesale slaughter of the Palestinian people, rooted in an ethno-nationalist colonial settler ideology, in continuation of decades of their systematic persecution and purging, based entirely upon their status as Arabs … leaves no room for doubt,” Mokhiber wrote in a letter that was widely circulated on social media and panned by some defenders of Israel as effectively calling for the dissolution of the Jewish state.'
'Any determination of “genocide” is both highly fraught and usually anchored in clear legal precedents. Raz Segal, an Israeli historian of the Holocaust, argued two weeks ago that Israel was already complicit in violating at least three of the five acts of the U.N. Genocide Convention in its war on Hamas in Gaza, which has triggered a huge dislocation of the Palestinian population there and raised the specter of potential mass expulsion from Gaza.'
'On Tuesday, an Israeli military spokesman described the loss of civilian life in Jabalya as an unfortunate “tragedy of war.” But that sentiment belies the views of many in Israel who seek a more definitive outcome — not merely the full defeat of Hamas, but the flattening of Gaza and the entire context where Hamas emerged. Segal cited the rhetoric of numerous Israeli politicians calling for de facto collective punishment of Palestinians living in Gaza in the immediate aftermath of the Hamas attack — a body of statements that’s only grown in the days since.'
'On Wednesday, Galit Distel Atbaryan, a former minister in Netanyahu’s government, called on social media for the “erasing all of Gaza from the face of the earth” and urged the mass eviction of Palestinians — “that the Gazan monsters will fly to the southern fence and try to enter Egyptian territory, or they will die.”
'Even for more sober-minded Israelis, there’s a hardened belief that the old status quo over Gaza cannot return. The Hamas strike was interpreted by some in Israel as an indictment of old policies, including the 2005 withdrawal of settlers and troops from the Gaza Strip that ended the military occupation of the territory — though Israel has nevertheless exercised deep control over much of what happens within Gaza through an asphyxiating economic blockade and a tight security regime.'
“The lesson many are arguing now is that Israel should never relinquish territory, should always maintain complete security control over all territory and that Palestinians should never be allowed to have self-determination,” Dahlia Scheindlin, an Israeli political scientist, told me during a Tuesday panel that I moderated at the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace.'
'Scheindlin pointed to the vague ideas of an endgame floated by Israeli officials and commentators in the still-remote scenario that Gaza is effectively purged of Hamas fighters. These include a desire to at least temporarily reoccupy Gaza, transfer authority for the territory to the Palestinian Authority — which holds sway in the West Bank and has already ruled out any postwar role in Gaza absent a broader political solution between Israelis and Palestinians — or some form of international peacekeeping arrangement whenever hostilities die down. The Israeli publication Local Call reported this week about a leaked internal document within Israel’s Intelligence Ministry suggesting the wholesale depopulation of Gaza and de facto ethnic cleansing.'
'One of the reasons there may be an Israeli “preference for moving Palestinians into Egypt” as opposed to ushering in PA control of the territory, observed Zaha Hassan, a fellow at the Carnegie Endowment, at the same panel, is that successive Israeli administrations have capitalized on Palestinian disunity to extend control over the occupied territories and expand settlements in the West Bank.'
“Israel has had a strategic interest in not seeing a unified Palestinian entity that could make peace with Israel and advance a two-state solution,” Hassan said, invoking the moribund vision of separate Israeli and Palestinian states existing side-by-side.'
'Paradoxically, even as Israel lays waste to swaths of the Gaza Strip, the need for such an arrangement is only growing more urgent. “No one has any utopian illusions that a diplomatic process which failed to yield a solution for over three decades will suddenly succeed after the deep trauma inflicted on Israel by Hamas’ October 7 attack and the destruction being caused in Gaza with Israel’s resulting war to destroy Hamas,” Anshel Pfeffer wrote in Haaretz. “However, to bring this war to an end, there will be no choice but to at least be open to such a possibility.” (WAPO, Today's WorldView, By Ishaan Tharoor,with Sammy Westfall) Copied in full.
Very well stated Fern McBride; However, that is actually not what I was thinking. I'll try to be more explicit. I was thinking that the Gaza Palestinians are being killed by both sides, once again. They are the victims once again. They are "thrown to the wolves" once again. This time it's the HAMAS 'brothers' and those controlling them (some say Iran). Not only Israel. What was forgotten (or left out on purpose or accident) was the historical context. The Arab community's complicity in killing and oppressing Palestinians has been going on since before the Nakba in 1948 when the Palestinian's Arab "brothers" stood by and let the West make their fateful deception in 1919 reality (re: the so called Faisal-Weizman agreement). And, that was not the last time the Palestinians looked to other "brothers" for help against oppression and were served up nothing. Palestinians deserve some peace and a new homeland, but that's not what Hamas and Hamas' controllers want...because Hamas wants them as Human ....No I won't say it again, Judy.
To quote you bruce klassen, 'Palestinians deserve some peace and a new homeland, ...' How much is 'some peace' for the Palestinians? '...and a 'new' homeland? 'New' ? Have you put your thinking cap on to assess how that measures up to Israel's policies and treatment of the Palestinians? How close or far away are your thoughts from those of Netanyahu and his administration?
My thoughts (which don't really matter) are probably far away from N's (I am not privy to them). Peace is peace, since you are testing my specific words. My point of view would be a lasting peace for Palestinians and Israelis. 'New' is because the Ottoman Empire occupied 'Palestine' before 1918 (for more than 300/400 years) and the British after them until 1948 in the East and Jordan/Egypt in the West Bank until 1967. Israel's policies and treatment of those people whom we currently call Palestinians is an apartheid abomination worsened even recently by Netanyahu's flight to the Right (from going to prison). So, I can't believe for a second that that will change, even as many Israeli's seem to be for some kind of accommodation, and a two state solution is being spoken of again. However, that said, do you believe that any of the Arab 'brothers' policies would be beneficial to the 'Palestinian' people, or bring peace?
Please Fern, let us not split hairs to finely. A NEW homeland at this point might be only because the existing one is being obliterted by Fascistic rightwing crininals of whom Netanyahu is their leader. I have written much about what Bruce posts below. Please read it carefully.
Gaza is packed with people...They aren't "human shields".....there isn't anywhere that people aren't. The captives: will they be bombed by Israel also? My guess is Yes.
Judy As a Foreign Service Officer I was physically deeply involved in 1964 in trying to rescue over 3,000 foreign hostages under Congolese rebel death threat.
We were horrified by what the rebels were doing to Congolese and foreigners. HOWEVER, at no time did we consider a rescue operation that endangered the non-rebel population, though some seemed supportive of the rebels.
I have been following recent events in the West Bank, where there are over 2 million Palestinians and 500,000 Israeli settlers who have been ‘intruded’ illegally on to Arab land. The killing of Palestinians has increased significantly since October 7th and armed Israeli settlers are mistreating (and killing) unarmed Palestinians.
I consider it unconscionable that tens of thousands of Gaza Palestinians will be killed and wounded as ‘revenge’ for a brutal and savage Hamas attack.
If you were a Palestinian, would you look favorably on Israel once this extensive military action terminates? Personally, I expect that this would provide a breeding ground for even more Hamas-type terrorists.
I am learning about this almost every waking hour. Last night, at 2am!, I researched Former IDF soldiers on youtube...some spoke of how they could no longer support the abuse and terrorism they were putting on the people of Gaza. Another had soldiers, not former, who spoke about how they deal with their job in the West Bank. sadistic. there are almost as many military soldiers in the West Bank as settlers. They are there to monitor every move the Palestinians make and protect and support and be fed goodies by the settlers.
I have studied the Jewish thing on my own since 1960, I was 19...that is when I discovered that good people like me, a German American did THAT terrible thing to those cool jews.. I saw Jews as using their brains and were fringe.....I got a book detailing Jewish history back to the 12th century........the Jews always get themselves into a situation where they become victims. It used to be the Christ killer accusation but that is over. The GD Evangelicals LOVE them. Now, they have a country all their own and look what's happening. They could have gotten along with the indigenous population but they planned way before '48 to get rid of them. They have the most powerful country in the world as their bestest friend. A formula for disaster. What is happening now is beyond insane. They justify it. Israel is definitely in trouble but the biggest problem is the bloody region. Who is going to lob an atom bomb over Iran or wherever, first? The Jews are supposed to so smart. They are using their smarts to ....put themselves right back into victimhood. I'm really sick of the human race. Too many that are in charge are a-holes.
Those in the Israeli government are savages. Just like Putin's. No one can stop it. Is this something we will have to get used to? Those who survive these living hell atrocities will be scared forever.
Fern, One life taken is too many. It's horrifying to see what's taking place in Palestine. It is also horrifying to see babies beheaded and thrown to the curb, ripped out of their mother's womb and young kids enjoying a music festival murdered in cold blood. Listing the casualties of war simply indicates whose side we're on. I understand that you see the large numbers of Palestinians caught up in this fight as tragic. I agree more than you probably will ever know. 1400 Israelis dead are equal to 50,000 Americans. Jews number 9. 1 million, Americans number 330 million. However, in my feeble attempt to balance the scales, you must also be aware that the moniker refugee camp is misleading. It's one of the bases of operations Hamas's operative terrorists are working from. Hundreds of these operatives were killed in the most recent Israeli attack. The collapsed bldg. you see in video footage was where the Hamas commander that orchestrated the 10/7 attack was living under, in a tunnel with many more of his cohorts. Israel destroyed the tunnels they lived in and the foundation the bldg rested on collapsed. Yes, innocents lives were taken in or near the facility. Yes, Netanyahu like Bush 2 was aware and warned of the 10/7 attack as Bush 2 was of 911. IMHO, you are a compassionate and articulate writer usually you back up by your comments by good sources. My hope is that you will be open to reading the Times of Israel, the Jerusalem Post, the Jewish Virtual Library as a reference to balance your point of view. Again, I respect you have the right to your opinion, but on this issue I believe you need to give equal weight to the Israeli side of the issue.
Fern, I am happy you appreciated this comment. I just want you to know I respect your opinion and that is why I needed to respond to some of the comments you made. I hope it didn't sound like a rant, but there are many more on this thread that share your general opinion, and I believe more than one voice needs to be at the table. You make this newsletter worth reading because of the well researched comments you provide. So I will continue to read your comments with the respect they deserve.
Eadie, thank you for your thoughtful response. I have tried not to express my personal opinions about Israel's war on Hamas. As usual I tried to bring information, with sources, well considered commentary, questions, etc., to my comments and replies. Venting (airing strong emotional feelings) is not my thing, but I did let my guard down in one exchange on this thread, yesterday. In the midst of Climate Change, collapsing Democracies, the war in Ukraine, the threats to our country 's democracy; Israel's government and its war have added consuming alarm to my days. I think that Israel's war is about more than Hamas. I am Jewish and what happens to us is part of who I am. My inclination is to understand more, and you will probably continue to find my comments rather even keeled but sometimes strongly decided on one side or another. We go on together, Eadie!
I have to admit I was surprised when you said you are Jewish. Your name is misleading. I believe you are in the same camp as J. Street, Peter Beinart, Ben Ami etc., Robert Reich, so you have a lot of company. IMO, I find that I'm sure you have done your research, but we all favor sources that agree with us, me included. I reiterate, give the Jerusalem Post and the Times of Israel a try. I feel the same way as you do when someone tries to ask me to watch FOX news. It goes against everything I believe, or to give the UN another try. I guess we'll have to agree to disagree and yes I will continue to follow your comments, because I believe you are intelligent, well read and try to inform us all on this thread.
Meta- dysfunction! It is a broken record all over again, like 5C BC. "there is a time for war". The wars of hate must stop NOW. Throw the record into the trash heap of history forever.
Put honestly or another way, southern Christian Republican Speaker Mike is a lying racist and fascist that wants to destroy our democracy by directing our government into mess with our religious freedoms and the right to choose what we do with faith, Sunday morning, our belief or denial in the supernatural, and Speaker Mike lies openly without contest from his Republican Party leadership about the impact of his tax policy, the IRS and the budget impact obliging the CBO to declare his blatant disregard for fact and the truth of his position on cutting the IRS budget to appeal to our most wealthy tax cheats.
Speaker Mike is another liar sitting as Speaker. Hastert and Agnew come to mind, both Republicans.
Clearly, Speaker Mike is a lying hypocrite on taxing the rich, the deficit impact of the IRS, inflation and deficits.
In layman’s terms, Speaker Mike is a Trump suck-up, willing to lie about numbers and tax policy, and he calls himself a conservative. What bull shit.
How tragic it is that we Americans again have a crook in the Speaker’s Chair; Republican Speakers Agnew and Hastert were prosecuted - here we go again.
Clearly, Republican Speaker Mike sucks up to Moscow and Putin and wealthy oligarchs. What’s what with Republicans?
Dr. Richardson, you have presented us with a lesson on the “Freedom of Religion” as it was meant to be. Not as MAGA Mike is using the Speakership to promote his ‘religious beliefs’.
What I fear is that he is much worse than Kevin McCarthy. At least, when it came down to the wire, McCarthy did the right thing. He figured out a way around the MAGA crowd and kept this nation open. Kept the government from shutting down.
I fear that this is the first thing in MAGA Mike’s agenda. He has been told by Trumputin, and the rest of the MAGA republicans to shut the government down. It will be done now. Along with everything else they want to do
If I may, Notes on Useful Beauty, I would disagree with Jeffries making the error. I think the Republicans made the error. First, instead of being the old Republican Party, they are going the way of MAGA, following the lead, as well as following the lead and word of Trump. They are acting as if Trump is their president, and no one else’s word means anything. They still have several representatives on that side of the aisle that would be excellent Speakers. Mitt Romney for one, would be an excellent choice, even though he’s not going to run for office again, he’s still of the ‘old guard’ so to speak.
I’m not a Republican, but my parents were before the party started ti change back in the 70s. Then they flipped to the Democratic Party. So, I am looking at this from the other side of the aisle also. I’m sitting on the Democratic side and I have to see that Jeffries and the other Democrats saw McCarthy following the lead of the MAGA group of Representatives and knew that if anything was to get accomplished, a change had to be made. And, I truly believe that Johnson was looked at like a good choice above all others running because he was a ‘virtually unknown’ person. So, they rolled the dice.
As it turned out, Johnson looked good from the outside, but when they, as we, have had a chance to test drive that car, and check under the hood, it doesn’t look so damn good. Now, it’s back to the drawing board to figure out what to do now. This model is e we rise than the one they had. They should have kept McCarthy over this…..
I just worry about the amount of damage Johnson and his ilk will be able to do before the election. As far as the election goes, Johnson is the poster boy for Vote for 18th Century morals or Vote for 21st Democracy….
His first damage is shutting down the government. That alone will cause the economy to fluctuate a good but, which will be blamed on Biden. But, in actuality, Trump is calling the shots now fur the House of Representatives. That’s why Santis wasn’t expelled yesterday. Trump doesn’t want him home. He’s in Trump’s pocket, just like Gaetz, Greene, Boebert, and about a dozen or so more.
Heather, I have been a free subscriber for a while, and I love your work. I joined to paid today just so I could comment on our new speaker and his perverted and wrong and dangerous views on church and state. I have I suspect, a somewhat unique perspective among your community here. I feel like I know Johnson and his type well. He is not most Christians or even Baptists.
1. I am a Christian.
2. I am a life long Southern Baptist(70 years and counting), often frustrated and embarrassed, but still there(see Robert Jeffress, Franklin Graham, the Falwells, et al.)
3. I am a life long Texan(also often frustrated and embarrassed, especially in recent years(see Cruz, Abbott, Paxton, et al.).
4. Church and state issues are near and dear to my heart, and are one of the few areas where Baptists have taken the lead historically in championing that separation Johnson rejects. Johnson is so, so wrong in my view.
While I agree with Johnson on some if not most of his THEOLOGICAL views, and try to live my life “based on the Bible,” as he so “modestly” stated, some of his positions even in theology are extreme, even for Southern Baptists(see new earth creationism for one example). There is nothing in the Baptist Faith and Message(Southern Baptists non creedal “creed”) that requires or even addresses that at all. That is a radical, weird, and unnecessary belief shipped in from even more fundamentalist groups like Pentecostals, etc.
I could talk theology and Biblical teachings all day, but I really want to talk about the separation of church and state. Johnson’s position on that are totally wrong, unChristian, unAmerican and especially unBaptist. His views are diametrically opposed to historical—-and in my view absolutely correct—-positions almost all Baptists have taken. Therefore, he is driving me crazy with his actions here. Your discussion of James Madison is so good, but I want to add a footnote. Madison was greatly influenced in his views and in his advocacy for the First Amendment by John Leland, a Baptist pastor in Virginia, and other Baptists. We believe in a free church in a free state. I tell everyone that when the church becomes entangled with the state, the church will be corrupted every time! See the USA over the last 8 years in particular to prove my thesis. Christian Nationalism which Johnson appears to be in up to his eyeballs(see a lot of other recent reporting) is wrong, wrong, wrong, and NOT a Baptist idea. In fact, just the opposite is what we have always believed and followed. Freedom means freedom to believe or not believe.
Sorry for the long post. He is 100% wrong on this point, and his Christian Nationalism is dangerous for our country. I say that as a “Bible believing, pretty traditional, Baptist Christian.” Mike Johnson thinks that is what he is, but he is not. For one thing he would not have tried to overthrow the government based on a lie. He is a radical of the highest order.
Since Mike Johnson was elected Speaker, I have been trying to raise the alarm about Johnson and the influence he has had from Dominionist Christians. I have posted a couple comments here today, with links to what I think are important articles, and have commented in previous days about Dominionism and the threat it poses to liberal democracy (and to Christianity). Dominionism, if you're not familiar, goes much, much deeper than Christian nationalism. See the article I posted in a previous comment.
I am not Baptist, but I have friends who are, and they have happily schooled me on historical Baptist teachings about church and state. I have learned a lot and have become grateful for the Baptist witness on these matters, from Roger Williams to Jimmy Carter. How far so many Baptists, as well as other Christians, have strayed from these principles!
I wrote a long reply then deleted it. Too much backstory about how the Baptist Church basically stole my daughter from my family. She joined a VERY legalistic church.
I hope that there are more people like you, because I truly fear for the way she is rearing my grandchildren.
And Rick, btw--I used to work with many Muslim women, who were kind enough to answer my honest questions about their faith. I would talk about my daughter's church, and one of the once commented that "almost sounds like Sharia law". This, from a devote Muslim!!
Rick, welcome in! I, too, was a looky-Lou for a time, then joined in (being retired, funds are limited) to be able to dialog with the folks here. I appreciate the variety of views here and the lively dialog that requires that we THINK critically and appreciate diverse opinions. There are some very knowledgeable and thoughtful folks who post here & I learn a lot from them.
Thank you. Dr. Richardson has a unique and engaging style and a historian’s wisdom and perspective. I also agree, the commenters are a diverse and wonderful group, with thoughtful and wide ranging opinions.
"You should not be afraid of someone who has a library and reads many books; you should fear someone who has only one book; and he considers it sacred, but he has never read it." Frederich Nietzsche
Craig, too true. And when you add the “prosperity gospel” in which God supposedly gives material riches to the most faithful, (regardless of how many commandments they break to acquire and keep them), then you encourage pride of class and exploitation of anyone not in your group (those favored by your god).
The prosperity gospel?? Is that another name for rogue capitalism practiced by the oligarchs???
No, it’s the religion preached by preachers like Joel Ostern. “ The Prosperity Gospel (PG) is a fast-growing theologically conservative movement frequently associated with Pentecostalism, evangelicalism, and charismatic Christianity that emphasizes believers’ abilities to transcend poverty and/or illness through devotion and positive confession. The PG is popular among impoverished communities, where at best it is considered to offer the poor a means of imagining and reaching for better lives (at times accompanied by sound financial advice), and at worst is criticized as predatory and manipulative, particularly when churches or pastors require heavy tithing.”
https://rpl.hds.harvard.edu/faq/prosperity-gospel#:~:text=The%20Prosperity%20Gospel%20(PG)%20is,through%20devotion%20and%20positive%20confession.
Mary, just send money you don't have to your pastor. I am reminded of the scene in Repo Man where the young man is eating a can of...is it dog food....while his parents are glued to a TV pastor and sending him all their money. My great niece has fallen for this kind of thing and once was on Facebook trying to solicit funds for her pastor. During the pandemic she was upset that she could go to the grocery store, but not church. Pfft, isn' an omnipresent god everywhere. She was also in my will for a family item which i then figured she would either give or sell to help her pastor. So, that item is now going to my nephew here.
I was worried there. Must be tough having a family member who has fallen for a cult.
Fortunately they all live at least 2000 miles away and so I only see things on Facebook. I did take on something she said once for all the good it did.
Religion and money = Roots of All Evil
The “Prosperity Gospel” is a new name for an old product. In the 19th century, the “Gospel of Wealth” emerged in American as an explanation for and lionization of men like Andrew Carnegie, John D. Rockefeller and others who had amassed great fortunes. It also, later, underpinned non-denominational preachers like, the Reverend Ike who liked to say, “the best thing you can do for the poor is not be one of them.” This, in turn, is what we hear from Joel Osteen and his ilk today.
The entire LDS church is built on this premise.
Yep
Yes. You got that right!
Whoa! What is that gospel? !?!?! Maybe not from
the sermon on the mount!
Nope, but they don't follow the Sermon on the Mount.....too woke. Jesus is also clearly against using religion to get rich. So Osteen and his ilk are running a den of thieves and of course loudly praying.
My memory is not great, but didn't Osteen refuse to open one of his stores? for people looking for shelter from a major hurricane? Eventually he did
Yes, he refused to open the 16,000 seat stadium church to Hurricane Harvey victims until he was called on it.
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna797036
Yes, he did. He had to be shamed into doing so. So much "Christian."
Jesus is definitely way too woke!!!
I am a bit surprised that we are seeing comments where the commentor is not familiar with "prosperity gospel". Yes it is a thing and it has been a thing for a while. Many of Trump's "spiritual" advisory folks were of this bent. Remember Paula White? It was sickening to watch.
and they made 45 a golden idol, too.
Yes Beverly. Should go down as one of the biggest cons in the history of evangelicalism. Few people on earth are more un-Christian than Trump. I do not know how conservative Christians who are Trump bootlickers can look at themselves in the mirror without complete and utter shame. A new meaning of the word hypocrisy.
It was UGLY
Always good to get educated!
Check Robert Schuller’s sermons that built the Crystal Cathedral in Orange County, CA. (1955 and 1980). Been around for a very long time. The sermons often started with “cast your bread upon the waters and it will return to you 10-fold.” That is, give money to this ministry and you will be made rich.
Oh, you mean rich HERE on Earth. Oh, no, I meant in HEAVEN; meanwhile, these false prophets are raking it in.
Just what we need. A bible verse to justify trump.
That’s called tribalism!
Our system of government and its founding documents are the product of The Enlightenment’s rejection of absolute monarchy and state religion. In a recent essay in The Atlantic, Peter Wehner explains where House Speaker Mike Johnson’s view of government’s role comes from. The essay is worth reading and it’s frightening. Johnson, evidently, believes The Enlightenment either did not happen or should be considered error.
He is a true believer who is full of hubris and arrogance. He has this constant smarmy look as if only he knows and the rest of us dolts do not. He is truly awful.
My feeling too except a one word description would be “smug”. Or absolute arrogance - in my opinion
Yes, he is smug as only a true believer can be. Already I can't stand to see his face and that little smile.
No true follower of Jesus is full of hubris and arrogance
Jesus himself said “...i am gentle and humble in heart.”
Jesus words to the proud and arrogant religionists, Pharisees in those days, were
“You snakes! You brood of vipers! How will you escape being condemned to hell?”
Watch Him, listen and learn, Mr. Speaker.
Anyone who thinks that material wealth is a sign of God’s approval (prosperity gospel), must’ve missed that part about the rich man trying to squeeze through the needle’s eye...
Shades of John Ashcroft!!
I had forgotten him with good reason.
Thanks for the article, MAS. Just read it and indeed you are correct to use the word "frightening". It pulls the curtain back on not just Johnson but how his mentors like David Barton the "Christian-right activist who cherry picks from the past to promote political agendas in the present, to paint a picture of America’s history as evangelicals would like it to be", perverting Madison & Jefferson's written words into their own worldview. Worse, Johnson's commitment to these perversions led 139 House GOP to illegally try overturning the election who “In formal statements justifying their votes, about three-quarters relied on the arguments of,... Mike Johnson"
The author, Peter Wehner's last line sums it all up, "he uses his Christian faith to sacralize his fanaticism and assault on truth. I can't help thinking this isn't what Jesus had in mind."
Jesus certainly didn't have anyone like Speaker Smug in mind. In fact, he would have been on Jesus's black list....exactly the kind of person who practices the form but not the essence of a religion. This was part of his dismay with the Temple hierarchy.
"sacralize"--thanks for a new word, for me, and concept. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sacralism
Spot on!
Practices the form of what religion? Not any Christian religion. Quite the contrary, as your reference to the concept of black list suggests. But I for one loathe the term "black list" which harkens to mind Tail Gunner Joe McCarthy.
Words I never thought would come to mind: Mike Johnson makes me miss Kevin McCarthy.
Michael, So out of the frying pan, into the hellfire?
Focusing on Madison and Jefferson and the Virginia Constitution gives a distorted impression of the role of church and state at the founding. It is not helpful to deny that there were strong religious impulses when the nation was founded. The First Amendment was readily accepted because it was a restraint on the FEDERAL government. It pleased the Deists (e.g. Jefferson) because they distrusted all religions but perhaps more importantly, it was supported by many religious people who feared that state level links to particular religions would be overridden in a movement to establish a national church. The Fourteenth Amendment was not interpreted to extend the religious First Amendment protections from state action until 1940 (Cantwell v. Connecticut).
Here are a few other points to bear in mind: In 1776 all but one of the thirteen colonies (Rhode Island) had ties to one or another church. Church-state ties persisted for decades afterwards and were only gradually weakened during a period that was sometimes called the Disestablishment . The last Congregational link in Massachusetts (always the bane of Maine) was not dissolved until 1833. Long ago (as now) religious (and anti-religious) enthusiasm seemed to breed controversy and political conspiracy theories. In 1800 it was the Illuminati who (first) were said to be using Jefferson to end all religions and then, in a new conspiracy, were alleged to be using Adams to impose one national one!
These struggles have continuous life over centuries.
Oh, they read it. They just take from it what they want and leave the rest alone.
Yes, the stuff they leave alone is the stuff that they ban other books for
Oh, I think it's more than that--much more. The life and witness of Jesus--his critique of "religion" and his resistance to empire--for a big example.
Not sure it was resistance to empire although it was the Romans who crucified. No, it was his calling out of the Temple hierarchy who aided and abetted his being crucified. They were not interested in helping the poor and the outcasts, only enriching themselves. Does this sound familiar.
It sure does. And don't forget welcoming strangers (immigrants).
Some commentaries indicate that the Palm Sunday procession was an act of resistance to the emperor--a royal procession and declaration that Caesar wasn't lord. There are other indications of resistance to empire in the Gospels.
Render unto Caesar. The Romans were puzzled by Jewish resistance because they extended to Jews some things not available to others under Rome like not having to worship Caesar as a god and other duties of Roman subjects. Then Jews continued to resist and the result was their utter defeat by Titus and the destruction of the Temple. Most of the time the Romans were tolerant of other religions as long as people did not rebel. I am not an expert, but I see the life of Jesus as being focused on the problems of the Temple hierarchy and the ignoring of the real problems of ordinary people.
George Bernard Shaw wrote a very interesting and (IMO) illuminating essay about Jesus in the introduction to his play, Androcles and the Lion. Not the Jesus of the Prosperity Gospel.
Indeed!
I recently read “The Petroleum Papers” by Geoff Dembicki (which I highly recommend). I was struck by how many of the early fossil fuel magnates were strong proponents of evangelical Christianity. Apparently, despoiling the planet was consistent with their theology.
Cafeteria Christianity...
I think that's known as "The Salad Bar Sect" of Christianity....
And require the churches to pay income taxes.
And property taxes, which stay within the community.
I don't go that far. We need churches, and Christian organizations, that reject all of this to remain financially healthy so that they can mount an effective resistance to this stuff. They're the first line of defense against it, because they are best equipped to throw sand in the Dominionists' theological gears.
And most of the kinds of Christians who would be resisting Dominionism and Christian nationalism do service work in their communities that would cost those communities more in social services than any tax revenue they would get from assessing church properties.
Further, taxing churches would probably violate the First Amendment's "free exercise of religion" clause, and probably also subject non-religious 501(c)3 charities to taxation.
So... failed farthest-right politicians embraced religion, converted to pastors, made money tax-free.... and misguided their passive, obedient flock in all things.
Politics disguised as religion -- yuk!
I would argue that a church is not a person, and has no constitutional rights, under the First Amendment or otherwise- it's just a type of social club. Human beings have constitutional rights, but entities do not - notwithstanding Citizens United and McCulloch v Maryland. (Citizens United was just plain wrongly decided, in my view, and McCulloch could be more narrowly construed so as to allow reasonable and appropriate taxation). Taxing an organization that one belongs to doesn't impede one's free exercise of religion, because no one is forced to pay to exercise their religion, are they? (Are they?) Churches, especially "the" Church, own vast amounts of very valuable real estate, as well as valuable personal property. As it stands now, people are allowed to take a tax deduction for contributions to their churches, but the church has no concomitant responsibility to pay tax on that income - unlike virtually every other club people choose to join, and pay dues to in order to be members. This damages our economy, particularly local economies in which a church owns valuable real estate but is sheltered from paying taxes on it.
And there's no reason the tax code can't make a distinction between taxable charitable entities and non-taxable charitable entities. Once an entity dives into the realm of politics, it should not be entitled to tax-free status.
Most people can no longer take tax deductions for their church contributions becasue of the Trump tax law. We would have to donate something close to $30,000 in total charitable deductions this year to even begin itemizing them--and that would only be amounts over that $30,000 (I could be wrong about the exact figure, but it's large).
Churches are not social clubs. That's a common attack label, but that's not their purpose; they are organized for the purpose of religious worship and religious instruction, so their very existence very much would fall under the "free exercise of religion" clause. The comparison of churches with corporations is a false analogy.
Most churches would have to close their doors if they were taxed. And that would shutter the social services they provide, putting a burden on taxpayer funded social services. The idea that churches damage our economy is just another attack, on the order of religious bigotry, that has no basis in fact.
Most of the wealth of the church is non-fungible; that is, it's not easily converted to cash, so the claim that the churches' wealth can be used to claim they should be taxed is simply not a valid argument.
Just because a few churches abuse their tax-exempt status (and it's really only a small percentage overall) is no reason to deny it to the many congregations that are trying to be faithful.
And as I wrote above, they are the first defense against the Dominionists and Christian nationalists. You can bet that, should they take over our government completely (God forbid), non-compliant and resisting churches would be the first organizations they would attack. Forcing them to pay taxes would kneecap the needed resistance they would provide.
Don, the large donors are the point - they are the ones getting huge tax deductions against their huge incomes. Not fair at all. And they can and do use their large donations to form policy and procedures - and those are rarely social services without a political agenda attached.
A specific church may have been formed for a specific purpose - allegedly. It isn't what they claim they are organized for, it is what they actually do once they are organized, which should justify their qualifying for non-taxable status. To the extent they carry out political organizing, or just engaging in socializing, they are not qualified for a tax deduction based on their religious instruction or worship. Call it a political club or a social club, that is not religious.
As I said, considering the zillions of extremely detailed provisons of the Code, making distinctions between churches qualified for non-taxable status and those "churches" in name only and therefore not qualified should be no trouble at all for the kind of people who have drafted (and amended, and amended, and amended) that Code.
And the analogy to corporations is apt; it is human beings, not their organizations, that have the right to freedom of religion. A church is an entity separate and distinct from its human congregation, and exists independently of them; if a member dies, the church does not die. If all the congregants die, the entity that is the church still "lives" - exactly what a corporation does.
With respect to the real and personal property of a church, yes, real and personal property can be sold to raise money to pay taxes; if a person has no source of income, and has to sell their stuff to pay their bills, why shouldn't a church? If a church has income, it can pay its taxes - I mean, by definition, it's not going to be liable for income taxes unless it has income; if its income is insufficient for that, it can tithe more. And let's not pretend that many "churches" aren't very wealthy, beyond the dreams of avarice, sitting on property, real or personal, that exists for "investment" (apartment buildings, artwork, items of gold and silver and jewels, etc.), and could be sold in a heartbeat, or used for paying taxes. Not all churches hold services in a congregant's living room.
And regardless of how many in number the cheating "churches" are, they are exactly the ones, the mega-churches come immediately to mind, against which a fair tax code should be enforced. Fix the tax code to prevent the cheating by political organizations masquerading as churches - they should have to justify their tax-free status, and if they actually provide religious instruction and worship and charitable services without political activism, like REAL churches, then they, like the REAL churches, can remain non-taxable.
And if they and other entities paid a fair share of taxes, a lot of the social services they provide could be shifted to the government's shoulders, and could be provided to all and sundry without any religious overtones, as such aid should be.
Finally, with all due respect, there don't seem to be any churches at all fighting in any noticeable way against the Xtian nationalists, end-of-times evangelists, dominionists, or other RWNJ gangs opposed to and working against democracy. Individuals, sure, but have any of the Xtian nationalists or their sorry ilk ceased striving to overthrow our nation as a consequence? I'd love to hear about their successes!
Anyway, taxation is a vexed question always, and with the RWNJs in the House of Reps now trying to fund aid to Israel ($14B) conditioned on defunding the IRS to the extent of every penny allocated to it under the 2022 Inflation Reduction Act ($80B), it raises its ugly head again, benefitting the rich tax cheats to the detriment of the rest of us - and, eventually, anyone abroad we'd like to help. They are truly despicable.
Lynn, are you involved with a congregation? Because it appears that you really have no idea what you are talking about.
Well placed comment, Craig, and Amen, Frederick Nietzche. Hallelujah for the plethora of books that public libraries provide for all.
When I ask people during phone banking when “religion” comes up, specifically white Christian viewpoint, “have you read the Bible cover to cover?”, I have yet to either get a response or a “yes”.
Any teacher will tell you it is impossible to teach without reading and thinking first. One cannot foster varying viewpoints if one does not have a viewpoint. One can harbor a single viewpoint when that viewpoint has been shoved down the throat rather than cured and savored by the brain.
Salud!
🗽
All they have to do is go to church and their pastor will tell them what to believe as will people in Bible study classes based of course, on their interpretation and an emphasis on those things that Jesus did not really teach. We have the Christianity of Paul, not so much Jesus. He managed to prevail over the brothers of Jesus in Jerusalem and that is too bad. I once again recommend God, An Anatomy for an excellent understanding of what is in the OT which reflects ideas prevalent in the ancient Middle East at the time.
The Buybull, cover to cover is an absolute, contradictory mess. From the Hateful Barbarism of the Old Testament to the Proselytizing of Paul, trying to get his Greeks & Romans to give up the old (fun) Pagan ways.
My Bible is very thin. Matthew, Mark, Luke & John. Something I have noticed that "Poser Christians" never quote from.
The core... of what survived after Constantine used religion as an immensely powerful unifying factor (hence, of course, the birth of heresy).
I've found it useful to add other dimensions, other viewpoints that cast light on the canonical gospels, via the often difficult Gospel of Thomas.
Thumpers. My brother's one, smack you with a literal, out of context quote that suits their grossly ignorant view of Christian style humanity.
Absolutely. Even the Bible is up for discussion. Many interpret-it to their liking.
But... doesn't it have to be "up for discussion"? The Gospel, in particular, in which Jesus speaks in parables, often grossly misunderstood and misinterpreted by churchmen to fit in with their pursuit of power. If one doesn't probe and study in depth, the Good News may not come into its own.
There in lies the problem because there are many who preach and don’t truly understand The Word.
So yes to your response!
I thought this was Thomas Aquinas, “hominem unius libri timeo…" ('I fear the man of a single book'). I was not aware Nietzsche had enlarged upon it. I would have thought him too nihilistic and deterministic to have written this.
I liked that line too Craig, Happy Thursday🫶
I'm 78, MA in Religious Studies from VA Theological Seminary, 800 hours of Chaplain training, a former RC nun, and I have not read every single word in the Hebrew Scriptures (what we used to call Old Testament). I bet neither has almost everyone who uses "The Bible" to justify all manner of injustice. Just saying.....
Terry, I love this scene from The West Wing in which President Bartlett tests an Evangelical leader’s knowledge of the Hebrew Scriptures.
https://youtu.be/S1-ip47WYWc?si=a08DpzDNRkJS784u
Oh, Mary, thank you for the reminder and the link. It's one of my favorite scenes, second only to Adam Arkin's psychiatrist telling Josh in "Noel"..."because we get better." I cry every time!
Or worse yet, Craig, doesn't read the original tract, but avidly reads and/or listens to others who reinterpret what was said or written to suit their own prejudices. Most of the people I have met, including my mother and her sister, claimed to be devout 'Christians" but who, in reality followed Calvin and Knox.
Oh. My. Yes.
Boom!
Love love love this!!
Bravo Clearly explains our country’s position on church and state per the founders And cuts the new so called speaker who should know about separation of church and state down to size on his backhanded bill
Both church and state are corrupted when single-minded religious groups capture the civil powers of the state or when those entrusted with powers to defend all of the people misuse them to serve a personal or factional ideology. The Enlightenment mindset of the founders, while inadequate to recognize the equal rights of race and gender, still managed to legitimize and further a foundation for universal rights, which many still fight to expand today. Their acquaintance with advances in scientific thinking prized legitimacy established by testable logic and evidence, not prophecy. They did not reject individual faith in religion, but ruled it out as a basis for deciding matters of state that would require independent verification, such as guilt or innocence in a trial. The outcomes of theocratic governance can be observed throughout the world, and throughout history and can be compared to the outcomes of religiously tolerant, yet secularly governed societies. I know which option I would choose.
The Founding Fathers were well aware of the Crusades and the religious wars that had wracked Europe for the preceding 150 years. They probably knew about some of the tortures that Tomás de Torquemada (the Inquisition) inflicted upon "heretics," and the witch trials in the colonies. They knew that religion was a serious threat to the state. Moving forward, Stalin, Hitler and Mussolini were all raised as Roman Catholics. It could merely be coincidental, but given that six of our Supreme Court Justices are Roman Catholic, I have little confidence that they can keep religion and despotic inclinations out of their decisions. I feel fairly confident that Speaker Mike Johnson has no problem with the concept that "the end justifies the means." What if Johnson and the MAGA Republicans simply shut down the government by starving it?
Two reminders: President Joe Biden is Catholic. And a truly excellent example of one who walks the walk instead of just talking the talk, unlike the dictators previously mentioned in your examples of world leaders no one should seek to emulate regardless which religion they were raised in.
Second, Leonard Leo is neither clergy nor theologian. His dark-money machinations represent capitalism, not the Roman Catholic church. Leo’s outsize, evil affects on Supreme Court nominations are terrifying and are currently, finally under investigation by the Justice Department.
Has the Catholic Church produced more than its fair share of evil autocrats? Yes. But so have most major religions. Netanyahu is Jewish and not exactly a great example of a mensch. Iran’s Ayatollahs cause untold harm with their death chants. Religion is a human construct; therefore has all the same problems humans do.
Please be careful judging all Catholics by the behaviors of the rich, powerful, mentally-deranged white guys who try to burn the world down. Has little or nothing to do with being a person of faith.
When power, money and egos (pride) go so far off the rails as the radical right coalition of Catholics and fundamentalist Christians has gone, we need to call out even those members of the cult who merely do nothing and say little or nothing. At some point it is a choice and an action to fail to oppose wrongful use of power and influence; we are long past that point with both the Republican Party and the Catholic and fundamentalist Christian religions (all 3 of which are tightly wrapped together in the current courts and political structures). Because politicians, and citizens in general, do not read history - or read only an edited, distorted version of it - they fail to realize how much religion was intentionally excluded from the founding principles of the US by virtually all of the white men we now revere as Founding Fathers. With all due respect to those who consider themselves "persons of faith", religion, which is a human construct, has done more damage and caused more misery and suffering than any other force in human existence. It has no place in the secular legal, political and social management of a diverse and inclusive world, country, state, town or any other secular organization. Our country was founded by people who'd seen and escaped religious interference and intended to establish a democratic Republic free of its pernicious influence.
I just have to say, with all due respect, that fellowship and bonding with others for comfort has offered a huge space for those in need. Religion has been there to offer this. But, yes, separation between church and state here in the US was Madison's goal.
I don't think all churches and temples house cult and not all cults are religious, but all cults prohibit and often severely punish cross-examination of the cults precepts, in which I can find no legitimacy. If one's basis for faith is robust, it should be able to withstand questioning and scrutiny. I think that the beginning of wisdom and civility is acknowledgment that every single one of us is human, fallible, and obliged to make consequential decisions with the benefit of certainty.
Like all other human constructs of power it can be used for good or evil, it depends on who the people using it elevate to power.
Look at us now. We have a choice between a man filled with love or a man filled with hate, and so many want to give power to the man filled with hate. It’s always been up to us. Which wolf do we feed? There’s only one mothership for all of us.
Amen
Tom, you nailed it. (Imho)....
Excellent points, Sheila. I didn't point out the atrocities perpetrated in the name of some of the other religions, Islam in particular. These religions are beliefs based on faith, which I define as the firm belief in the truth of something based on hope and conjecture. They have no facts to support their claims and reason is not on their side either. Our inability as a species in the generality to think critically, to get beyond our confirmation bias, to believe what we want to believe, costs us and the rest of the creatures that share this planet with us dearly.
By their action we will know them not by their claim of faith.
Richard, I'd like to comment on your statement about the inability of humans as a species to think critically. I think the opposite - the ABILITY to think critically is inborn in most of us, but how to execute that ability must be taught by others who have learned from previous others, etc. As must refraining from squashing it in the young by people in positions of power or authority over them, whether parents, teachers, "spiritual leaders" (which are often nothing of the kind, IMO), governmental officials, the media, employers/bosses, etc. That ability can become a disability if discouraged and prevented and punished enough. And someone who's motivated to obtain power as a consequence of effectively squashing the critical thinking ability in others can and will do so -as we have seen. Sadly.
And I completely agree with your comment on the truth that all religions are based in fantasy and wishing, not on anything real. Maybe someday as a species we'll outgrow the need for a Big Daddy to reward the good guys and punish the bad guys, and so fear being a bad guy ourselves. I suppose it's possible to be spiritual, in the sense of having an awareness of being fully entitled to belong within and be a part of the entire cosmos, and appreciate that (like appreciating music, or nature, that can bring ecstasy or joy) without having to have faith in, or even believe in the existence of, some superpower - but that spirituality doesn't lead to power, and money, so it's not very popular, as far as I can see.
“As must refraining from squashing it in the young by people in positions of power or authority over them, whether parents, teachers, "spiritual leaders"…”
Especially, the “shroud of shame”
I think we all have, to varying degrees, inborn capacity to develop any of the traits that humans possess, but more than other animals(even though many animals do this a lot), our behaviors are learned from experience and each other. We also have advanced powers of self-reflection and empathy that serve us as a species. we also have a unique, individual experience and identity, the sense of "me", that we all need, but becomes toxic is "me" is ultimately all that we care about. Some people encourage mindfulness, while malignant narcissists often encourage self-serving self-absorption, and build cults around it.
Some of the gullibility could be cultural. Thomas Frank, in his book, "What's the Matter with Kansas," shows how the oligarchs use the promulgation of wedge issues through the media to persuade ordinary Americans to vote against their own best social and economic interests. How far down the income ladder must they plunge before catching on to the Pied-Piper play on them? The oligarchs really do intend to turn this government into an oligarchical autocracy. Who said it, "Total power corrupts totally?"
Lynn Spann Bowditch, you do seem to be telling of a belief in what I'd term "mono-atheism". To state my position, I see myself as religious but mistrust beliefs and belief systems, especially those grounded in blind faith. Not only the creeds required by Christian churches but various forms of inculcated irrationality, including scientism and blind faith in the deity of our time, money.
It is, of course, a common projection to imagine that others have beliefs while we... have Knowledge.
Going back to what I called mono-atheism, this seems on the face of it to be a variation on the endemic disease of the monotheist religions. The notion that there is One truth is unbelievably powerful and its political usefulness is evident... Thus, it can become correspondingly dangerous in the hands of anyone in a position of power who proclaims he possesses that one truth. Anyone, regardless of religious belief.
In Buddhism, the danger is when someone whose motivation is unsound has attained great powers of concentration. Witness the case of Ashin Wirathu in Burma: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-30930997.
Some other examples of religious or pseudo-religious abuse:
The Japanese militarists created a synthetic religion called State Shinto, centered on the deified Emperor, a ritualization of Japan's supposed spiritual superiority that integrated all the most negative features of the warriors' code. Buddhism was downgraded and everyone was obliged to join in imperial rites.
By demonizing the huge Muslim population of India, Prime Minister Narendra Modi has succeeded in hammering the immensely diverse communities, beliefs and philosophies that go under the single label "Hinduism" into something more like a solid mass.
Hitler achieved something similar by deforming the great diversity of the German-speaking peoples into a seemingly monolithic unit, the Herrenvolk, destined to dominate all lesser races and obliterate those whom the Fuehrer demonized, in particular Jews and Roma.
Stalin persecuted all religions without exception until the Nazi invasion of the Soviet Union, when he understood the need to draw on the ancient identification of Slavic peoples with Orthodoxy in the defense or Russia and Ukraine from Mongols and Tatars in the east and Catholic Poles and Teutonic Knights in the West.
'Even as President Biden presses Israel to define clearly the goals of its war against Hamas in Gaza, he is turning his eyes to a much larger endgame: the ever-elusive hope for a lasting peace deal between Israel and the Palestinians.'
'Speaking to reporters last week, Mr. Biden said that “when this crisis is over, there has to be a vision of what comes next, and in our view it has to be a two-state solution,” creating a sovereign Palestinian nation alongside the state of Israel.'
'The question is how hard Mr. Biden intends to work for that outcome.'
'Until last month, the Israeli-Palestinian conflict was not among his top priorities. A president focused on countering China and then Russia’s invasion of Ukraine had little time or inclination for a distant goal that stymied — and politically bruised — several of his predecessors.'
'Biden administration officials also doubted whether Israel’s increasingly hawkish leadership was interested in any plausible deal. They also wondered whether the Palestinians would trust the United States as a peace broker after four years of the Trump administration’s dramatically pro-Israel tilt and a Trump peace plan that the Palestinian Authority leader Mahmoud Abbas, excluded from its devising, declared dead on arrival.'
'Unlike his recent predecessors, Mr. Biden did not appoint a special envoy for Middle East peace or task his secretary of state with trying to forge an agreement between Israel and the Palestinians. Instead, he focused on mediating a normalization agreement between Israel and Saudi Arabia, hoping to leverage Israeli concessions to the Palestinians along the way.'
“It was not a tier-one policy objective to solve this conflict,” 'said David Makovsky, a former peace process negotiator in the Obama administration.' “The goal was to stabilize, and not trying and failing a fifth time.”
'Mr. Biden did not follow through on his promise to reopen a U.S. consulate in East Jerusalem.'
'But even modest efforts proved surprisingly difficult, and some analysts believe that Mr. Biden’s minimalist approach neglected the Palestinians. In particular, Palestinians had hoped Mr. Biden would reverse several Trump-era decisions that downgraded diplomatic ties with the Palestinians and loosened guardrails on Israeli settlement activity in the West Bank.'
'It wasn’t to be.'
'As a candidate, Mr. Biden promised to reopen the Washington office of the Palestine Liberation Organization, which Mr. Trump shuttered, kicking out Palestinian representatives from the nation’s capital. Mr. Biden never acted on the pledge.'
'Nor did he follow through on his promise as a candidate to reopen a U.S. consulate in East Jerusalem — also shut down by Mr. Trump — that had long served as America’s local diplomatic point of contact for the Palestinians.'
'Many Palestinians also hoped that the United States under Mr. Biden would reinstate a State Department legal opinion declaring Israeli settlements in the West Bank to be illegal. Secretary of State Mike Pompeo canceled the opinion, which had been in force for four decades. Secretary of State Antony J. Blinken has not moved to reverse it.' (NYTimes) See gifted link below.
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/11/01/us/politics/biden-israel-palestinians-peace.html?unlocked_article_code=1.7Uw.7Avo.xON-kEja5vGa&smid=url-share
Black journalist and writer Ta-Nehisi Coats delivered a complacency shattering interview on DemocracyNow.org in the second half of today's hour long news program.
None of us would want to miss it.
As for US envoys for Middle East peace, isn't it time to get the usual guardians of the tragic status quo out of the way and finally let a country with lived experience like Ireland or South Africa take the lead?
Shane, the usual "guardians of the tragic status quo" are also, in large part, the very creators and then perpetuators thereof. And yes, we - the US in particular - need to consent to being led for a change, and learn from the experience of others, such as and including Ireland and South Africa - not that there's entire peace in either of those places.
Coats was recently in occupied Palestine and applies his experience with race and discrimination to illuminate matters we have learned to ignore. We, of course, have for decades "adjusted to" excuses for bombing and occupation of country after country and our President has noted that arms production is a jobs program.
This is the problem of painting everyone with the same brush because of the behavior of certain individuals. Religion, like everything else, can be used for good or ill. I am currently, finally, reading Braiding Sweetgrass, where she talks constantly of a world view which sees natural world as a gift and a world view that sees everything as a commodity.
One of my favorite books! Thanks for the reminder. Time to reread, I think.
Sheila, Yes! Or listen to the author read it on the audio version. She has a hauntingly sweet voice. I listened to the book first, then went right out to buy the paperback so I could mark it up--then bought several copies to give away. It's a little costly, but worth it for special people!
Her father's morning coffee ritual reawakened my life of gratitude that had become dormant during the first year of the last administration.
I believe I recommended the book to this community some time ago now....
It is beautifully written. I am really enjoying it and every page is filled with something to think about.
Michele, and everything in the natural world is sacred--whatever one's spirituality or religious beliefs happen to be.
Some Christians have forgotten (or ignored) this. They believe they have dominion over creation, instead of responsibility to care for it (and each other). Thus we have enslavement, abuse of animals, and raping the earth--In my opinion the Garden--all with the implied permission of their particular version of God in Genesis....
Yes. So many people have no respect for other people let alone the earth. I listen every day to drivers roaring up and down our street and street racing at night. We had one instance where late at night a person hit a pedestrian on a nearby street and put the body in his car and drove it out of town and it seems to me just left the car. He did get caught thankfully.
I think in the end we are all persons of some sort of faith, but not all of it is theological, and not all theological faith is authoritarian, but some if it is, and it seems to me no accident that the authoritarian strain of religious interpretation melds with coercion of authoritarian politics. It is the religious spin of those who aim to lord it over others. The other strain aims to liberate, which is the nemesis of authoritarians, and, as was the case for MLK, often met with violence. And not all violence is physical, it often takes the form of pernicious lies, such as racism, sexism, homophobia, etc, that both harms directly and creates environments where material violence is likely to occur.
It seems that many self-proclaimed Christians despise the poorest, worship money and the most monied, and dream of executions and war, seemingly the very antipode of thoughts attributed to Jesus.
I agree. i think the life of the spirit is important, but for some it becomes adherence to hatred and violence.
Or a narcissistic pretext for it.
Very well said.
The wonderful thing is how these all-powerful church hierarchies produced so many truly great saints and such marvels as the great cathedrals. (Who today could even imagine such music in stone as Hagia Sofia or Amiens cathedral... Or, moving to Islam, the mosques of Iran and Central Asia?)
The hierarchy produced the funding; the stone masons and mosaic artists produced the timeless beauty. I would love to see those mosques in person; thank heavens for the internet so at least I can enjoy photos!
One of the things that fascinates me as an artist was the freemason movement. Was it a movement of well-trained artisans who trained the next generation of artisans so the Cathedrals could be completed? Or was it a political movement? How did those, whose skills gave them a passport to travel, including income and respect, become such a force in Europe? Learning from many cultures is a well-established method of breaking down barriers. Yet, the Catholic Church seeks to create barriers - as in our way or you will be outed as a (pagan, infidel, whore, witch, take your pick) and be stoned, othered, attacked, left to starve. How is that Christian, by the way?
And how many of the authors of the US Constitution were Masons?
The Roman Catholic Church’s history is bathed in blood. Yet my dad became a conscientious objector growing up in the Catholic Church. Why did he “get” it and someone like Brett Kavanaugh become a Supreme Court Justice? Feel like a toddler some days with the constant question why.
Our democracy has been deeply damaged by the actions of those who call themselves Christian, including Evangelicals and Catholics. And the guardrails separating church from state are badly battered. ! You guessed it; why do they do that?
A couple more modern day saints would be helpful. Like my colleagues in the climate movement.
It is eerily possible. Johnson and his ilk do not want to know truth. They are too busy twisting it.
Jennifer, for me, I think that they are so invested in what they want to believe, that they can't recognize the truth, i.e., facts. They have a huge blind spot. It is a common phenomenon among humans, very common. Belief in an afterlife is the prime example.
The gop has been starving federal social support programs since their guru Reagan declared government is the problem!
Reagan-Trump "Republicans" pretend to hate "government" while yet making it more intrusive and heavy-handed upon those not in their club. It's "government of the people, by the people, for the people" neo-"Republicans" have come to despise, as well as the common weal, and it is that they have consistently attacked and dismantled these four plus decades, (just count the ways) in a wealth-fueled quest to reestablish something harking to feudalism.
I’m going to quibble with you. Stalin was not raised Roman Catholic. He attended a Russian Orthodox academy.
Those leaders, like today’s evangelicals, perverted the teachings of the Church. Can you imagine what Jesus would think of the prosperity gospel folks? I’m pretty sure he’d throw them out of the temple, reminding them of camels and eyes of needles.
Me thinks we go through these periods to emphasize and move above the din.
Hopefully enlightenment vs WWIII.
Heather encapsulates with historic precision , her Letters ARE enlightenment . ( Must be her shoes...Lord, I love her shoes!!!!)
We have a real chance here ...here within the clever and careful thoughts spurred by research and knowledge ...and so share we should , good journalism /good writing best encourages.... to rest the chatter of our minds amidst this cacophony .
I read an email this morning about Meta being sued by 41 states for instigating addictive behaviors in teenagers , depression, and suicide.
Me thinks the ‘parental oversight ‘forgot about off buttons/structured time allotted for social things/ and that little word ‘no’ ...which btw needs enforced from day 1. I acknowledge the algorithms , the hard sell techniques, new toys, disinformation, capitalism pitfalls AND the religious/cults/demagoguery being captured by anyone or multiples.
WE have all skirted such or been part of at times ...education is but one key.
Evolving is currently a hot ticket , can we rise and better ourselves...again?
This format and you give hope ...🫶
💙💙VOTE ALL COMPLICIT OUT💙💙
I’ve missed the shoes..do you have pictures?!🤪
🤣, it was her natural self on 60 Minutes with Judy W. Heather lives in my home state , exudes a gathered , rugged ‘ downeasta’ wholesomeness in her dress and competent carriage, equally the teacher…but the shoes cinched it for me . “Now there’s a level headed woman!” I quipped to my husband , “ check out those shoes!”
Foundations, solid needs, she studies our foundations, well done Heather!
Also, her appearance on the LBJ Library gives a great view of Heather as herself- including the great shoes (I so agree about those!) and a stellar display of her delightful wit.
Video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gkbAayPUjtM
Also some neat still photos: https://www.flickr.com/photos/lbjlibrarynow/albums/72177720312036685/
I still need to see that episode, thanks for the reminder! Yes, competency, level-headedness, humor, and smarts.
She included a pair in her 4/29/23 letter. 😁
Wow! You said it, Richard! You will appreciate that every December for reasons I do not know. I get a letter from the RC bishops from Pennsylvania telling me how to vote and asking for money. It’s been fun watching Pope Francis recognizing over population and climate change, when my RC neighbor tells me “God will take care of climate change.” Science began with Galileo’s standing up for what he knew and the embrace of the Enlightenment which began to free us from superstition by studying and writing about what is as opposed to what were products of fearful imaginings.
He’s trying😬😡
Correction to Richard Sutherland: Stalin was a seminarist in the Russian Orthodox Church before he became a bandit, then...
*
To the Kah-Gay-Bay
*
Our old Nobodaddy Joe
watches us from down below.
At the seminary, he
grew jealous of the Deity;
plotted there to take His place,
liquidate the human race,
leaving only Party cadres,
indispensable cadavers
and of course His Privates, We.
Thank you. I have a 12 volume set of the writings of Thomas Jefferson, and his abounding curiosity should be an inspiration to the likes of Johnson, if he would be read them.
His fascination with science, and copious correspondence, is astonishing. I am reminded of one small thing, his excitement with a new gadget, the metronome. Musical performances had no fixed way of knowing a composers intent at rhythm, and this wonderful new device made it possible for each movement of any piece to contain a setting for the metronome.
Johnson would likely want to ban it.
Thank you for writing about Jefferson and the metronome. Having been to Monticello, I knew about his farming interests, but you are reminding us of what a Renaissance man he was.
Thanks for the info about the metronome. I did not know that Jefferson had invented it. Practice with a metronome is a darn near daily exercise for me.
He didn’t, it was originally invented by I think an eastern European . It was patented by a German man. I want to say he heard about it from Lavoisier, whose acquaintance he had made when ambassador to France, but…hey there are 12 volumes.
Good to know. I just know that, without a metronome, I would be incapable of "playing ahead of the beat" which you have to do on the tuba (18' of tubing plus sitting in the back row means making your noise earlier than you think...)
I never thought about it. A well tempered tuba.
Galileo, one for whom the term "genius" fully applies, managed to calculate a numerical value for objects accelerating due to gravity, a benchmark for Newton and Einstein to build on. Since he had no metronome with which to quantify time, some speculate he used his pulse, but in any case a good-enough way to regulate the measure of time. A pendulum perhaps? He managed to extrapolate free fall from objects rolling down ramps.
No one has mentioned Jefferson’s (French) wine cellar. Don’t remember where I learned about that, but this seems a good thing to throw into the mix.
Professor, if only you were in Congress! I would love to see you cut these bloviating “Christians” down to size with historical accuracy the way Katie Porter does with financial accuracy.
MAGA's would cover their ears, but I have seen Elizabeth Warren's keen knowledge of subject manner reduce some less prepared officials to awkward silence.
Some of the founding fathers were deists. They believed in a Creator God, who created the universe and left to operate according to the rules the Creator put in place, example gravity.
Jefferson was one such deist. He even created his own version of the Bible, cutting out the parts he disliked. What would Mike Johnson do with Jefferson?
Jefferson's Bible was not about cutting out the parts he didn't like. He was trying to separate the teaching of Jesus from the commentary of Paul and the other commentary written for centuries after Jesus lived.
Jefferson cut out the words attributed to Jesus and glued them into a journal, creating a Bible of Jesus's teachings.
What would Johnson do with Lincoln? Their heads are on the mountain and even on money. They are too famous to dis, and DJT discovered that Lincoln was a Republican, so what to do? I am sure that someone quoting some of Lincoln's less salient writing would be reflexively dismissed as a "Communist" by MAGAs. I notice and morn the removal of Lincoln's Birthday as a national holiday.
Johnson would not be at all pleased with Jefferson's heavily edited Bible.
Plus, the founders knew about auto-da-fé and were trying to popularize the equality of all “men.” They may have been a bit shocked at Abigail Adams, but they didn’t burn her at a stake. Never forget: even if Jesus embraced Mary Magdalene, the Catholic Church only “awarded” souls to women in the 12th century. But still you cannot teach that in public school. (If an international medievalist, a high church Episcopalian, hadn’t said it in class....)
Repubs have been nothing but skilled at corrupting the messages of the founding fathers
Jeri Chilcutt. That is the most concise description of the MAGA Republican I’ve read
Thank you. Pretty good at cherry picking the Bible too. About ditched the NT.
Nothing new, I fear.
The Trump Whitehouse was packed with radical evangelical Christian nationalists - Pence, Pompeo, Perry, Sessions, DeVos ..... and the rest.
No wonder they think he was sent by the Lord
Hence, disagreeing with him (Mango Muffin) is blasphemy, right! I can hardly believe we have become soooo stupid. "Stupid is as stupid does...".
Stupid, ignorant, and 360 hating, a bad trifecta which some call winning, others call our worst disaster.
And afraid. Their fear drives them sometimes into paranoia. Their fear drives their hatred.
Always true, fear is the driver for a lot of insanity.
George Lakoff writes about differences between conservatives and liberals. Conservatives tend to be more afraid of change, and difference than liberals. They also tend to seek out authoritarian leaders to feel reassured that someone is in charge, while liberals want more nurturing leaders.
no argument here
Today there are no Conservatives. Bill Buckley spins in his grave when that term is applied to MAGA Republicans.
J. Nol Writes J.’s Substack - "George Lakoff writes about differences between conservatives and liberals."
And he most recently said:
"𝘛𝘩𝘦 𝘱𝘳𝘰𝘨𝘳𝘦𝘴𝘴𝘪𝘷𝘦 𝘮𝘪𝘯𝘥𝘴𝘦𝘵 𝘪𝘴 𝘴𝘤𝘳𝘦𝘸𝘪𝘯𝘨 𝘶𝘱 𝘵𝘩𝘦 𝘸𝘰𝘳𝘭𝘥. 𝘛𝘩𝘦 𝘱𝘳𝘰𝘨𝘳𝘦𝘴𝘴𝘪𝘷𝘦 𝘮𝘪𝘯𝘥𝘴𝘦𝘵 𝘪𝘴 𝘨𝘶𝘢𝘳𝘢𝘯𝘵𝘦𝘦𝘪𝘯𝘨 𝘯𝘰 𝘱𝘳𝘰𝘨𝘳𝘦𝘴𝘴 𝘰𝘯 𝘨𝘭𝘰𝘣𝘢𝘭 𝘸𝘢𝘳𝘮𝘪𝘯𝘨. 𝘛𝘩𝘦 𝘱𝘳𝘰𝘨𝘳𝘦𝘴𝘴𝘪𝘷𝘦 𝘮𝘪𝘯𝘥𝘴𝘦𝘵 𝘪𝘴 𝘴𝘢𝘺𝘪𝘯𝘨, '𝘠𝘦𝘴, 𝘧𝘳𝘢𝘤𝘬𝘪𝘯𝘨 𝘪𝘴 𝘧𝘪𝘯𝘦.' 𝘛𝘩𝘦 𝘱𝘳𝘰𝘨𝘳𝘦𝘴𝘴𝘪𝘷𝘦 𝘮𝘪𝘯𝘥𝘴𝘦𝘵 𝘪𝘴 𝘴𝘢𝘺𝘪𝘯𝘨, '𝘠𝘦𝘴, 𝘨𝘦𝘯𝘦𝘵𝘪𝘤𝘢𝘭𝘭𝘺 𝘮𝘰𝘥𝘪𝘧𝘪𝘦𝘥 𝘰𝘳𝘨𝘢𝘯𝘪𝘴𝘮𝘴 𝘢𝘳𝘦 𝘖𝘒', 𝘸𝘩𝘦𝘯, 𝘪𝘯 𝘧𝘢𝘤𝘵, 𝘵𝘩𝘦𝘺'𝘳𝘦 𝘩𝘰𝘳𝘳𝘪𝘣𝘭𝘦, 𝘢𝘯𝘥 𝘵𝘩𝘦 𝘱𝘳𝘰𝘨𝘳𝘦𝘴𝘴𝘪𝘷𝘦 𝘮𝘪𝘯𝘥𝘴𝘦𝘵 𝘥𝘰𝘦𝘴𝘯'𝘵 𝘬𝘯𝘰𝘸 𝘩𝘰𝘸 𝘵𝘰 𝘥𝘦𝘴𝘤𝘳𝘪𝘣𝘦 𝘩𝘰𝘸 𝘩𝘰𝘳𝘳𝘪𝘣𝘭𝘦 𝘵𝘩𝘦𝘺 𝘢𝘳𝘦. 𝘛𝘩𝘦𝘳𝘦'𝘴 𝘢 𝘥𝘪𝘧𝘧𝘦𝘳𝘦𝘯𝘤𝘦 𝘣𝘦𝘵𝘸𝘦𝘦𝘯 𝘱𝘳𝘰𝘨𝘳𝘦𝘴𝘴𝘪𝘷𝘦 𝘮𝘰𝘳𝘢𝘭𝘪𝘵𝘺, 𝘸𝘩𝘪𝘤𝘩 𝘪𝘴 𝘨𝘳𝘦𝘢𝘵, 𝘢𝘯𝘥 𝘵𝘩𝘦 𝘱𝘳𝘰𝘨𝘳𝘦𝘴𝘴𝘪𝘷𝘦 𝘮𝘪𝘯𝘥𝘴𝘦𝘵, 𝘸𝘩𝘪𝘤𝘩 𝘪𝘴 𝘩𝘢𝘭𝘧 𝘖𝘒 𝘢𝘯𝘥 𝘩𝘢𝘭𝘧 𝘢𝘸𝘧𝘶𝘭."
The left, he argues, "𝘪𝘴 𝘭𝘰𝘴𝘪𝘯𝘨 𝘵𝘩𝘦 𝘱𝘰𝘭𝘪𝘵𝘪𝘤𝘢𝘭 𝘢𝘳𝘨𝘶𝘮𝘦𝘯𝘵 – 𝘦𝘷𝘦𝘳𝘺 𝘺𝘦𝘢𝘳, 𝘪𝘵 𝘤𝘦𝘥𝘦𝘴 𝘮𝘰𝘳𝘦 𝘨𝘳𝘰𝘶𝘯𝘥 𝘵𝘰 𝘵𝘩𝘦 𝘳𝘪𝘨𝘩𝘵, 𝘶𝘯𝘥𝘦𝘳 𝘵𝘩𝘦 𝘮𝘪𝘴𝘵𝘢𝘬𝘦𝘯 𝘪𝘮𝘱𝘳𝘦𝘴𝘴𝘪𝘰𝘯 𝘵𝘩𝘢𝘵 𝘵𝘩𝘪𝘴 𝘸𝘪𝘭𝘭 𝘣𝘳𝘪𝘯𝘨 𝘦𝘷𝘦𝘳𝘺𝘵𝘩𝘪𝘯𝘨 𝘤𝘭𝘰𝘴𝘦𝘳 𝘵𝘰 𝘵𝘩𝘦 𝘤𝘦𝘯𝘵𝘳𝘦. 𝘐𝘯 𝘧𝘢𝘤𝘵, 𝘵𝘩𝘦𝘳𝘦 𝘪𝘴 𝘯𝘰 𝘤𝘦𝘯𝘵𝘳𝘦: 𝘵𝘩𝘦 𝘮𝘰𝘳𝘦 𝘱𝘳𝘰𝘨𝘳𝘦𝘴𝘴𝘪𝘷𝘦𝘴 𝘤𝘢𝘱𝘪𝘵𝘶𝘭𝘢𝘵𝘦, 𝘵𝘩𝘦 𝘮𝘰𝘳𝘦 𝘣𝘰𝘭𝘥𝘭𝘺 𝘵𝘩𝘦 𝘤𝘰𝘯𝘴𝘦𝘳𝘷𝘢𝘵𝘪𝘷𝘦𝘴 𝘦𝘹𝘱𝘳𝘦𝘴𝘴 𝘵𝘩𝘦𝘪𝘳 𝘷𝘪𝘴𝘪𝘰𝘯, 𝘢𝘯𝘥 𝘵𝘩𝘦 𝘧𝘶𝘳𝘵𝘩𝘦𝘳 𝘵𝘰 𝘵𝘩𝘦 𝘳𝘪𝘨𝘩𝘵 𝘵𝘩𝘦 𝘮𝘢𝘪𝘯𝘴𝘵𝘳𝘦𝘢𝘮 𝘮𝘰𝘷𝘦𝘴. 𝘛𝘩𝘦 𝘳𝘦𝘢𝘴𝘰𝘯 𝘪𝘴 𝘵𝘩𝘢𝘵 𝘤𝘰𝘯𝘴𝘦𝘳𝘷𝘢𝘵𝘪𝘷𝘦𝘴 𝘴𝘱𝘦𝘢𝘬 𝘧𝘳𝘰𝘮 𝘢𝘯 𝘢𝘶𝘵𝘩𝘦𝘯𝘵𝘪𝘤 𝘮𝘰𝘳𝘢𝘭 𝘱𝘰𝘴𝘪𝘵𝘪𝘰𝘯, 𝘢𝘯𝘥 𝘢𝘱𝘱𝘦𝘢𝘭 𝘵𝘰 𝘷𝘰𝘵𝘦𝘳𝘴' 𝘷𝘢𝘭𝘶𝘦𝘴. 𝘓𝘪𝘣𝘦𝘳𝘢𝘭𝘴 𝘵𝘳𝘺 𝘵𝘰 𝘢𝘳𝘨𝘶𝘦 𝘢𝘨𝘢𝘪𝘯𝘴𝘵 𝘵𝘩𝘦𝘮 𝘶𝘴𝘪𝘯𝘨 𝘦𝘷𝘪𝘥𝘦𝘯𝘤𝘦; 𝘵𝘩𝘦𝘺 𝘢𝘳𝘦 𝘦𝘮𝘣𝘢𝘳𝘳𝘢𝘴𝘴𝘦𝘥 𝘣𝘺 𝘦𝘮𝘰𝘵𝘪𝘰𝘯𝘢𝘭𝘪𝘵𝘺. 𝘛𝘩𝘦𝘺 𝘵𝘩𝘪𝘯𝘬 𝘵𝘩𝘢𝘵 𝘪𝘧 𝘺𝘰𝘶 𝘤𝘢𝘯 𝘫𝘶𝘴𝘵 𝘥𝘦𝘮𝘰𝘯𝘴𝘵𝘳𝘢𝘵𝘦 𝘵𝘰 𝘷𝘰𝘵𝘦𝘳𝘴 𝘩𝘰𝘸 𝘵𝘩𝘦𝘪𝘳 𝘴𝘦𝘭𝘧-𝘪𝘯𝘵𝘦𝘳𝘦𝘴𝘵 𝘪𝘴 𝘴𝘦𝘳𝘷𝘦𝘥 𝘣𝘺 𝘢 𝘴𝘰𝘤𝘪𝘢𝘭𝘭𝘺 𝘦𝘨𝘢𝘭𝘪𝘵𝘢𝘳𝘪𝘢𝘯 𝘱𝘰𝘴𝘪𝘵𝘪𝘰𝘯, 𝘵𝘩𝘢𝘵 𝘸𝘪𝘭𝘭 𝘸𝘰𝘳𝘬, 𝘢𝘯𝘥 𝘦𝘷𝘦𝘳𝘺𝘰𝘯𝘦 𝘸𝘪𝘭𝘭 𝘷𝘰𝘵𝘦 𝘧𝘰𝘳 𝘵𝘩𝘦𝘮 𝘢𝘯𝘥 𝘵𝘩𝘦 𝘥𝘦𝘣𝘢𝘵𝘦 𝘸𝘪𝘭𝘭 𝘣𝘦 𝘰𝘷𝘦𝘳. 𝘐𝘯 𝘧𝘢𝘤𝘵, 𝘓𝘢𝘬𝘰𝘧𝘧 𝘢𝘴𝘴𝘦𝘳𝘵𝘴, 𝘷𝘰𝘵𝘦𝘳𝘴 𝘥𝘰𝘯'𝘵 𝘷𝘰𝘵𝘦 𝘧𝘰𝘳 𝘣𝘢𝘭𝘥 𝘴𝘦𝘭𝘧-𝘪𝘯𝘵𝘦𝘳𝘦𝘴𝘵; 𝘴𝘦𝘭𝘧-𝘪𝘯𝘵𝘦𝘳𝘦𝘴𝘵 𝘧𝘢𝘪𝘭𝘴 𝘵𝘰 𝘪𝘨𝘯𝘪𝘵𝘦, 𝘪𝘵 𝘪𝘯𝘴𝘱𝘪𝘳𝘦𝘴 𝘯𝘰𝘵𝘩𝘪𝘯𝘨 – 𝘱𝘳𝘰𝘨𝘳𝘦𝘴𝘴𝘪𝘷𝘦𝘴, 𝘰𝘧 𝘢𝘭𝘭 𝘱𝘦𝘰𝘱𝘭𝘦, 𝘰𝘶𝘨𝘩𝘵 𝘵𝘰 𝘶𝘯𝘥𝘦𝘳𝘴𝘵𝘢𝘯𝘥 𝘵𝘩𝘪𝘴."
https://www.theguardian.com/books/2014/feb/01/george-lakoff-interview
“Conservatism consists of exactly one proposition, to wit: There must be in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect.”
— Frank Wilhoit
Fear, true, but don’t forget about hate is a driving force.
Kanai et al. (2011) found that conservatism was associated with greater gray matter volume in the amygdala, and suggested that this finding may be associated with the emotional and cognitive differences across political orientation, particularly those associated with 'managing fear and uncertainty' (p. 678). (NIH)
This makes so much sense. In situations of perceived threat, the amygdala is activated and stimulates many neurohormones. One effect is that the prefrontal cortex is over-ridden by fear and anger. Rational thought is more difficult and less compelling than the automatic response of avoidance, freezing or attacking.
I’ve had a few conversations with conservatives wherein I try to politely challenge their most basic misinformation. I could literally see their PFC disengage: that “deer in the headlights” look, followed by changing the subject to the next rant.
Clearly there is something neurologically different in their thought processes.
“Mango Muffin.” 😂🤣😂 Hadn’t heard that one. Thanks for the morning chuckle.
I like orange putrescence, courtesy of Stacy Abrams.
🤣🤣🤣 Laughter is good for the soul. Hilarious!!
Humor is a foundational ingredient. Without it every thing is 'flat'. Even the earth would be flat..oh my!
We must never forget the attack on peaceful Black Lives Matter marchers in DC so tfg manbaby could walk across the street and hold a bible upside-down. The troops he called out, the low flying helicopters, would have stopped the Jan 6 rioters cold. The stunt seemed so weird then but makes perfect sense of his intent to me now.
Christopher, 100% of that people list believe in money, not the "Lord". In America, when you see a Republican in government, they are there for the money. No other reason.
That is generally true. But the few that are in it to change America to a theocratic government are really the most frightening. They are not indifferent to money but they absolutely have a different goal. Their culture war positions are not a sop to their base but something they are determined to fight and win. (shiver)
not evangelicals?
So far, the Lord has a rotten track record. Trump could well be one of the Lords "natural disasters".
Wrong lord...
Straight out of the NT, bent on changing a "corrupt" world, a self-serving "called by God" to do "His" bidding.... yours and the comments of others, amplify Heather's essay on the First Amendment. The Enlightenment was toning down the violent consequences of the breakup of Christianity in Europe on both traditional governmental forms and republican innovations....but we of course need to be mindful that the severe anti-Catholic biases of the French Revolution was formidable.
Add to the list former AG Barr, a devout radical catholic!
Christopher, I don't think the Donal Trump has any acquaintance with the Lord.
Ah, but his followers, his base thinks he does, that's enough, and he knows it.
Enough is enough!
https://www.newyorker.com/humor/borowitz-report/ginni-thomas-says-mike-johnsons-wife-seems-a-little-crazy
But Lord of what?
not evangelicals? really?
Why does each side believe the other side doesn't believe?
Because when your foundation is an imaginary sky pilot, you can make up what you want to.
I really don't want to put words in Zella's mouth, but my recent experience tells me that many Christians (at least here at LFAAU) do not believe that those who follow a path towards Christian Nationalism are actual Christians, since they do not follow the teachings of Christ.
and Christian
Thank you, as always Heather. You are right on point tonight.
The "Originalists" of SCOTUS are obviously expressing there opinions as cut from whole cloth. The power to amend our constitution is as original as could be and is proof positive that the founders were aware that unknown future entities, conditions or objects could become necessarary to account for in the legal system, statute and application and understanding of the first ten ammendmends. The AR-15 is such an unknown and the belief expressed by Mike Johnson is expressly and originally unfounded and not allowed. I read the Federalist Papers some sixty- five years ago in a civics class and am a bit rusty, but the quote of Madison makes me wonder about the Federalist Society. Have they ever read the Federalist Papers?
Thank you, Ransom Rideout, I first studied The Federalist in 1956-'57 and reread the papers decades ago, seeking lessons for Europe.
So, I too have often asked myself the same question. Have they ever read the book or is it, like the Bible and The Wealth of Nations, just another fat tome to be waved upside down to impress the foolish?
"or is it, like the Bible and The Wealth of Nations, just another fat tome to be waved upside down to impress the foolish?"
Answer: Yes.
There is no way that Rump has ever read the Bible. If he opens that book just to look in it, he would immediately go up in flames.
Chortle!
A name which has no connection to the goal. Chump proved the Bible best used to create an illusion (delusion) for those who never read a book but listened to the purveyors of righteous from an evil perch. The Federalist Society just latched on to a familiar and respected name
Right there with you.
Nothing in the Constitution prescribes or authorizes original intent as the way to interpret the document.
I think I was sort of referring to that.
My way of agreeing with your thoughtful comments. J.
You might be as facetious and sly as I.
Now that’s a profound statement!
Ransom, While I take your point on the power to amend inscribed in the Constitution, I would add that our Founders enlisted a very steep climb for whomever would want to edit them—two-thirds majority in both U.S. legislative chambers and subsequent ratification by three-fourths of the states. I imagine most of us have viewed this threshold as both a blessing and a curse.
It is both and I believe that was the"original" intent.
Ransom, I imagine you’re right about the justified “original” intent. Still, the Founders’ methodical reasoning doesn’t make me any less frustrated that we are the only country that still enacts an electoral college to elect its president, let alone the other disheartening vestiges that fuel minority rule over the will of the majority. Note I haven’t even gotten started on the 2nd Amendment.
Yes. Heather went deeply into why this was done to go from the Articles of Confederation to the writing of our Constitution. In order for the slave states to ratify, the Electoral Collegewas was to give the South parity in votes because Black Slaves were only three fifths of a white man in the census. The Senate gave the southern states parity beween the states themselves.
It's been sixty years since I studied this stuff. Scroll back through Heather's archive of History Chats.You can get there from her FB page.
On a more frightening note, the T-Rump had an opening campaign rally in Waco,Texas today?yesterday? where he laid out the plan to resurect the Confederacy, basically. Re-establish the Southern Oligahchy as our rulers. They plan to make all our issues irrelevant. This election is no joke. Donate as much as you can to Fair Fight, CREW, Common Cause and others who are waging the legal battles to secure un-molested elections. Google Voting Rights Legal Action Organizations and many will show up.
Hang in there, Barbara Jo.
Like Nazis, repubs are not loathe to twist logic to embrace the opposite of what was intended. I would say it’s a major skill set. Thanks Frank Luntz…
Deftly illustrated by their unwillingness to expel George Santos.
Can’t think of anyone who epitomizes the Repub party these days more than Santos. At least he doesn’t pretend righteousness. Sorry you are dead and can’t see this, Bill Buckley.
Ransom ... you got 52 LIKES. A lot. That's because of the power of your words and insight I think. And I'm in Athens. The birthplace of democracy. Where they know a Theocracy is not a democracy. So me, and my 20000 tourist friends, and the guides, we salute you and your wisdom. J. ¹
Thank you JBR (name one day?) ENJOY! but keep an eye out for smoke...
I am, as Scarlett O’Hara said, “pea green with envy.” Enjoy Greece!!!
I too am very rusty on the Federalist Papers, but in Heather’s quote from Madison, I was given pause to read. “it is the mutual duty of all to practice Christian forbearance, love, and charity toward each other.” I will explore the context for the reference, but wonder if anyone here can clarify why he refers to to these values as specifically Christian. Is this simply a universal reference that all who read in that time would understand as such? I wonder if a statement like that can be, and is being, used to claim that the founders assumed a specifically Christian value system (however it be individually construed).
I had the same thought. The average Christian will simply see the word Christian and claim it means that we are a Christian nation, meaning the whole of Christianity, and not a circumscribed , era-defined adjective describing the "the mutual duty of all to practice Christian forbearance, love, and charity toward each other.” I (an athiest) went to a Catholic college taught by nuns (for the full tuition scholarship). A common saying was "That's mighty Christian of you." It was meant as a small sarcasm against people who were performative but not sincere in their actions toward others.
But this is just the Federalist Papers. As relavant to their claim as the Pentagon Papers.
Ha, a dear friend of mine was sent to one by her father for the same reason. I, being an aethiest also, say" That's raht christian of yuh"
Your comments have been very good for quite a while, Barbara.
That's mighty nice of you to say, Ransom. I try to only post worthwhile additions, but I recognize that these are very long comment threads, and I know that few people will end up reading most of it.
Frustrating sometimes. Several of Heather's followers who followed Steve Schmidt (and Joyce) also have decided to stay in contact after he pissed us off big time last Friday for going to work for Dean Phillips to primary Biden. Six very smart women and one other man maybe. You might appreciate staying in touch too. If so, Kathy Sherpa was the main instigator and a wonderful person about my age(mid-late 70s) and a retired psychaiatrist.
I am sure she will not mind if I pass long her email. I will let her know. Not an active group, but to pass on important information and be there for support in these crazy times. When one sends an email, your thoughtgoes directly and is not lost in the fast moving stream.
Anyway, you sound like you might just fit right in. if you care to, check in with Kathy :
kdsherpa@ bellsouth.net
Enjoy your day, wherever you are.
Thanks - I also had the same thought/question and re-read that section several times.
I thought I’d meant practice Christian forbearance...and practice love and charity. But heck, it might have been directed at Christian’s to “practice what you preach!”
I had the same question.
I thought about that too and I believe that in the context of the freedom of religious PRACTICE being discussed, he was referring to HIS belief as a Christian and telling those of other denominations or sects, (and there were several) that forebearance would be expected in return from the others. None should claim superiority over another.
I agree with you Victor. Those who believe that their way is the only way will use any excuse to justify themselves. That mention of Christianity is nowhere in the First Amendment and mentioned in any other writing is irrelavent.
See Nietzsche quote above.
Junk Fish Johnson, MAGA head of the House, is burnishing his Trumpist credentials. Seeking to reduce IRS funding by $14 billion is as loony a ‘debt reduction’ initiative as was Trump’s ‘trickle down’ tax giveaway to the wealthy in 2017.
As for his Bible-thumping interpretation of the First Amendment, he is as screwed up as is Trump’s trampling of the Constitution.
In fact, at the time of the Constitutional Convention, various states either supported a specific religion and/or penalized a religion. I believe that Catholics in Delaware were discriminated against. Massachusetts continued to support a specific religion into the 19th century.
The Stench Court is steadily encroaching on the First Amendment’s clear separation of church and state, while Trump’s ‘Christianity’ is a mockery of Jesus’s New Testament message.
Johnson is a fitting leader of The Gang That Couldn’t Shoot Straight.
Sadly, his carnival freak show Is impeding such imperative needs as keeping the government open after mid-November, funding Ukraine (and Israel), and other matters associated with responsible governance.
"Sadly, his carnival freak show Is impeding such imperative needs as keeping the government open after mid-November, funding Ukraine (and Israel), and other matters associated with responsible governance."
Don't hold back Keith!! Way to say it like it truly is.
Thank you.
👍x a gazillion ‼️
"...a fitting leader of The Gang That Couldn't Shoot Straight"
That wins the internet today, Keith.
Tuba I’m waiting for Junk Fish to lament “I didn’t know the gun was loaded.’
Sigh. I need to clean the keyboard and screen of the spewed coffee.
Read American Crusade: How the Supreme Court is Weaponizing Religious Freedom by Andrew Seidel. Nightmare stuff. The Roberts Court has been tearing down the wall, brick by brick, case by case - with deliberate and incompetent judgements.
Right on target, Keith. Thank you for making heavy light and shooting straight.
As far as MAGA Mike and the theocrat scum are concerned, Fundamentalism isn't a religion, it's a curse on mankind.
'THE AMERICAN ISRAEL Public Affairs Committee, or AIPAC, was the top donor to Rep. Mike Johnson during his most recent campaign, chipping in $25,000 between 2021 and 2022, according to an OpenSecrets analysis of his political contributors. Johnson’s first order of business as speaker of the House is to seek budget cuts in exchange for a $14 billion aid package for Israel.'
'The Louisiana Republican’s proposal for the aid to Israel, which comes as the country continues its unchecked bombardment of Gaza, would strip $14 billion from the Internal Revenue Service, including for a program the agency is developing to allow Americans to file their taxes for free.'
'AIPAC, for its part, is pushing Congress to provide additional funding to Israel amid the ongoing war. In an ominous statement on Monday, AIPAC tweeted, “We strongly support the measure to fully fund critical security assistance for Israel in its fight to destroy Hamas. We recognize that this is the first step in a process that will continue to unfold. Each step of the process, we will work for overwhelming bipartisan Congressional support for this critical assistance.”
'Johnson’s proposal, in its current iteration, faces steep odds in Congress, though it could force Democrats to to choose between voting against aid to Israel and incurring the wrath of the powerful AIPAC lobby, or voting for a bill that will subvert President Joe Biden’s efforts to strengthen the IRS. '
'The bill would also slash funding that would bolster the IRS’s tax evasion enforcement and tax filing assistance. The proposal is a nonstarter with Senate Democrats who have decried the strategy and pointed to a Congressional Budget Office score showing that the move would actually increase the federal deficit. It would also likely be dismissed by Biden, who secured $80 billion to boost the IRS through his Inflation Reduction Act.'
'Biden has called on Congress to pass a $106 billion military assistance package for both Ukraine and Israel. Earlier this week, Secretary of State Antony Blinken reiterated the president’s plea during a Senate hearing, where he was repeatedly interrupted by protesters decrying the administration’s support for the war in Gaza.'
'Johnson, meanwhile, seeks to decouple the Israel military aid from assistance to Ukraine. A bill that provides funding only to Israel may be a hard sell for Democrats who face increasing calls to support a ceasefire — a humanitarian intervention AIPAC has explicitly rejected. (So far, 18 members of Congress have signed onto a resolution urging a ceasefire in Gaza.)' (TheIntercept)
To clarify: AIPAC donates equally to both parties as do so many other entities. There is a large number of American jews who do not support AIPAC and do support Israel for a variety of reasons. The U.S. has always supported Israel and continues support now, for a bunch of reasons, not the least being it is the only Mideast democracy. Our national and international interests are very much buoyed by supporting the worlds' democracies everywhere.
Mike Johnson is among the fervent Christian extremists whose support for Israel lies in their ingenuous desire to convert us Jews to Christians, which we abhor. These are all facts. Facts that too few know. These conversations to be fair must rely on all the facts that are in play, not just the popular ones being bandied about, propped up by a relatively ignorant - and varied - media eager to play our emotions for profit and/or whatever slant they are taking.
It could be said that what we are seeing is democracy being stretched to its limits where every fool gets to have their say in every foolish way now on display. Lesson learned.
Brief background concerning the Palestinians and Israel
'United Nations: The Question of Palestine'
'The Nakba, which means “catastrophe” in Arabic, refers to the mass displacement and dispossession of Palestinians during the 1948 Arab-Israeli war. Before the Nakba, Palestine was a multi-ethnic and multi-cultural society. However, the conflict between Arabs and Jews intensified in the 1930s with the increase of Jewish immigration, driven by persecution in Europe, and with the Zionist movement aiming to establish a Jewish state in Palestine.'
'In November 1947, the UN General Assembly passed a resolution partitioning Palestine into two states, one Jewish and one Arab, with Jerusalem under a UN administration. The Arab world rejected the plan, arguing that it was unfair and violated the UN Charter. Jewish militias launched attacks against Palestinian villages, forcing thousands to flee. The situation escalated into a full-blown war in 1948, with the end of the British Mandate and the departure of British forces, the declaration of independence of the State of Israel and the entry of neighbouring Arab armies. The newly established Israeli forces launched a major offensive. The result of the war was the permanent displacement of more than half of the Palestinian population.'
'As early as December 1948, the UN General Assembly called for refugee return, property restitution and compensation (resolution 194 (II)). However, 75 years later, despite countless UN resolutions, the rights of the Palestinians continue to be denied. According to the UN Relief and Works Agency for Palestine Refugees (UNRWA) more than 5 million Palestine refugees are scattered throughout the Middle East. Today, Palestinians continue to be dispossessed and displaced by Israeli settlements, evictions, land confiscation and home demolitions.'
'The Nakba anniversary is a reminder not only of those tragic events of 1948, but of the ongoing injustice suffered by the Palestinians. The Nakba had a profound impact on the Palestinian people, who lost their homes, their land, and their way of life. It remains a deeply traumatic event in their collective memory and continues to shape their struggle for justice and for their right to return to their homes. In 2022, the UN General Assembly requested that this anniversary be commemorated on 15 May 2023, for the first time in the history of the UN. '(UN) See link below.
https://www.un.org/unispal/about-the-nakba/
Fern, The UN is composed of 195 countries 56 of them are Islamic. They are a very biased organization. Your comments leave out a lot of history. The land that Jordan and Israel occupy had many rulers. You chose to reference the 19th Century but without an unbiased reference point the whole picture is blurred if not irradicated. The Philistines were first to claim ownership. Then the Jews, next the Babylonians, the Byzantine Empire, the Romans, the Crusades, the Ottoman Empire, England's Palestinian Mandate after WWI, WWII, 1948, war of Independence, 1967 war that gave Israel control of the land once again. This land has been jockeyed over for centuries. Here's a little bit more of the history you left out. The Balfour Declaration was signed in 1914, promising Israel a Jewish homeland by Lord Balfour of England and Lord Rothchild that encompassed biblical Palestine. Why? Because Chaim Weitzman, a renowned scientist and influential in England’s politics, convinced them that Israel was being persecuted by mainly Russia but was put in Ghettos all over Europe and deserved to live in their biblical homeland. Note that they were persecuted by Christians since they did not accept Jesus Christ as their Savior FOR CENTURIES. In addition, in 1921, Chaim Weitzman invented Acetone, which helped England win WWI. You might believe England had no right to promise anything, but they had a Palestinian Mandate over the land in question and all Allied powers signed an agreement called the League of Nations in 1923, giving Israel a Jewish homeland. However, that was not the end of the story, because right before this agreement was signed Churchill needed to get Abdullah’s agreement. Abdullah agreed as long as Transjordan was created. This gave the Arabs 80% of the land and 20% went to Israel. Jordan's land stretches all the way to Syria. Israel was reduced to the size of New Jersey. Fast forward to 1948 when Israel fought a war for independence and won. England was counting on them losing, since the whole Arab world were their opponents! A lesser known fact is that Jewish organizations at the end of the 19 th century and beyond bought thousands of acres of land from Arab Sheiks only to get rid of the land Mark Twain said was the ugliest place on earth. They sold to the highest bidder and Jewish organizations hold those deeds. So your argument that Arabs were in the majority and were dispossessed bears closer scrutiny. In fact, Jews were in the majority at that time because they were fleeing Russian pogroms and emigrated with the help of Sokolov and Weitzman to Palestine.
Many thanks for this way more complete look that people can learn about - if they want to, if they want to expand their understanding. The UN's relatively spineless role continues to this day to make pronouncements against Israel in the face of this way deeper story; my step sister who worked there many years ago was a close witness to their waffling on this and other subjects.
It is a disservice to truth, to eventual more peaceful dealings of every sort, to spout UN intransigence uncritically as if theirs
was somehow the only and last word around.
Anti-Israel stands are in themselves a stand for the rule of bullying- should-win. What gives the 22 Arab nations with an immense land mass, with oil, with a vastly larger population the right somehow to call the big shots? Why are they so threatened with the power that tiny little Israel must maintain in the face of such outnumbering? Get a grip.
Check biases at the door of reality.
Thank you Robin for putting things in perspective. I feel like a feather in the wind blowing smoke or maybe more aptly a lone wolf in the wilderness. Yes, the UN is a biased organization. It wasn't always. I remember when its actions matched its rhetoric. I worshipped at the alter of the UN. I named my cat UNO and her brother UNESCO. As a young student, I worked at the UN on the same floor as Dag Hammarskjöld, Swedish diplomat, economist and author. UNESCO is the United Nations Educational, Scientific and Cultural Organization. Their aim is to promote peace and security through international cooperation. The United Nations organization stood for peace dignity and equality. They have been resting on their past performance far too long.
One of the greatest tragedies of modern times is that we created a UN without teeth to enforce its decisions. Thank you for this essential piece of history. It points out the original founding error that will haunt this region forever. Forever.
Bill The reality was that the UN politically could not have been created without a Security Council in which Stalin’s Soviet Union had veto power (along with US, UK, France, and China).
FDR recognized this (unlike Wilson and his God-driven dream of a League of Nations).
There is a bevy of articles on how the Security Council might be changed, including new permanent members. However, I consider the possibility that Russia, China, and the United States giving up the veto power as zero.
The large General Assembly can discuss and vote, but the Security Council is the principal authorizing body, with the veto available to its five permanent members.
Understood. As long as there are Putins and Xis, a world governing organization that values human rights and territorial integrity can't exist. So it has been and always will be. There is no hope. We do the best we can with what we have to work with. Billions of desperate, selfish humans fighting over scraps while billionaires hog the wealth and resources of a wobbly planet.
As a species, we aren't nearly as smart as we think we are.
...and most importantly, our living life killers: Putin, Kim Jong Un, Isaias Afewerki, Bashar al-Assad...you know our next stops, Bill.
Fern, there you go again, quoting your UN bible like fundamentalists quote their bible to justify their biases.
Those Jewish militias were formed because Arabs were attacking Jewish settlements. Those Jewish settlements were on land purchased from individuals using donated funds raised in the US and Europe. They were not stolen lands.
The UN partition essentially granted Jews land to form a state that encompassed those settlements plus a buffer of unlivable land, and the jews accepted it. Jordan and Egypt rejected this and exhorted the Arabs to reject it. The 1948 war was waged by those Arab states, a set of disorganized skirmishes which ended up Israel expanding its territory in those DEFENSIVE battles, which gave it the pre-1967 borders.
Your UN document is again, like the last time, totally one sided and composed after the fact to hide years of repeated rejections of chances at peace and total incompetence by the losing side.
I will refrain from labeling the quality of your mind and discourse and any effort to share information with you, Jerry Helfand, is not encouraged by your insults and absolutism. With all, the following books are rather good for helping to understand Israel's war against Hamas: FAILING PEACE by Sara Roy; BLIND SPOT, AMERICA AND THE PALESTINIANS, FROM BALFOUR TO TRUMP by KHALED ELGINDY; SIX DAYS OF WAR by MICHAEL B. OREN; The Hundred Years' War on PALESTINE by Rashid Khalidi.
Shalom Aleichem
Fine. Just answer two things:
One: Do you think Israel has a right to exist and defend itself?
Two: Have you ever been there or have you just read about it? Have you talked in person to an Israeli Arab? Have you talked in person to someone injured in one of the wars there?
Tikkun Olam serves much more, in both the short and long run.
These are books 'about', not full reality checks and discussions, are meant to reinforce opinions with words. What a difference.
On the ground facts are often much harder to deal with, requiring minds to be open to misinterpretations and their consequences. Anyone can publish any book they want to.
Publishing is not truth per se. Actions tell the actual tale.
Check out Eadie's f/actual post above.
FERN MCBRIDE (NYC)
4 hrs ago
'THE AMERICAN ISRAEL Public Affairs Committee, or AIPAC, was the top donor to Rep. Mike Johnson during his most recent campaign, chipping in $25,000 between 2021 and 2022,". Fern, I usually appreciate your comments, because your voice is an important one. IMO. When you quote a statistic like that, it should be balanced with something like this: Jews represent 2% of our population but receive 60% of the violence in this country. Young Jews on college campuses are getting death threats because of unbalanced comments that only quote one side of the equation. Their lives are being made a living hell by organizations like Students for Justice and comments from our congress women like Ilan Omar, Rashida Tlaib and AOC. Ilan Omar declared A Day of Rage against Israel because she thought the failed Hamas rocket launch was sent by Israel. Hamas claimed 500 dead, when the number was 50. HCR stated yesterday that The Hamas controlled Ministry of Health's figures were generally accurate. Perhaps, but the figures they quote include Hamas terrorist operatives and innocent Palestinians they prevent from moving south at gunpoint. My point is that AIPC and ADL influence are being outnumbered by 1.9 billion Muslims in the world, left wing members of congress, and university presidents.. When people that are respected put their thumb on the scale, they are promoting bigotry in the minds of those on this newsletter and the public at large IMHO. ADL Is a Jewish org. that specializes in civil rights law and combats antisemitism and extremism, would that Iran had a similar org.. The American Israel Public Affairs Committee ( AIPAC) is a lobbying group that advocates pro Israel policies. A quick search of the internet found 15 Christian lobbying org. with the following statistics:Total for Clergy & Religious Organizations: $4,725,000
Total Number of Clients Reported: 15
Total Number of Lobbyists Reported: 58
Total Number of Revolvers: 18 (31.0%)
Try finding a website that takes the Israeli side in any of the conflicts between the Palestinians and Israel. You won't. If you key in Hamas, you may get a hit, but there is always justification for their acts of aggression.
In summary, Israel is fighting a propaganda war that they are losing, because as I said, there are 1.9 billion Muslims and 16 million Jews. Israel's war has never been about murdering innocent Palestinians. Their war has been with Hamas, a proxy as Hezbollah, the Houthi's and Iraq are. I am no fan of Mike Johnson or Netanyahu. Mike Johnson is being led by the Freedom party, a group of white supremacists and Christian Fundamentalists, who do not give a hoot about Israel. MTG and Rand Paul don't want to fund Israel or Ukraine. The Freedom party would throw Israel under the bus tomorrow given the opportunity. Netanyahu, I believe is on his way out. His response to the 10/7 attack opened Pandora's box and gave credibility to all the antisemites and Jew haters in the world. Hamas doesn't need anymore help from people that should know better.
Unchecked bombardment?? Those are targeted attacks on Hamas operations hidden underground using civilians living above as shields. Those are targeted operations initiated after warning civilians to leave, after weeks of telling civilians to leave. What other army tells its enemy where it's going to attack to give civilians a chance to get to safety?
And a cease fire?? There was a cease fire that was broken by Hamas on Oct 7. Hamas charter calls for eradication of Israel and the killing of all Jews worldwide. It has been launching rockets into Israel since at least 2005 on an almost weekly basis.
The Palestinians were offered peace in the Oslo accords. They rejected total autonomy and international support.
Yes, I support humanitarian pauses to allow civilians to get out of harms way. But let a nihilistic terrorist group like Hamas, which terrorizes its own people as well as Israel, keep its terror capabilities? We're not crazy.
Please start supporting the Palestinians by condemning Hamas.
GO WHERE? Are you telling me what to do? Of course, you are!
Are you living in Gaza? I'm not telling you what to do. The IDF warns civilians to get out of the way of targeted attacks focused on Hanas centers of terror operations. The IDF has been telling civilians to leave northern Gaza for weeks. There is southern Gaza as an area that is away from the most intense operations against Hamas.
Or should Israel just keep tolerating Hamas' promised continued attacks on Israel (just repeated today on US media)?
Tell me. What should Israel do to defend itself? Or shouldn't it?
“… incurring the wrath of the powerful AIPAC lobby, or voting for a bill that will subvert President Joe Biden’s efforts to strengthen the IRS. '
If this group backs Li’ll Mikey, they were never in Biden’s corner!
Does anyone know if persons with dual U.S. Israeli citizenship can donate to AIPAC?
Anyone can donate to any organization. Citizenship to any country not required. Only a credit card.
“Only in Washington when you cut spending do they call it an increase in the deficit,” For an intelligent, successful man(M. Johnson) to pump this kind of non-sense, shows that he's pandering to and taking advantage of - a particular audience. The non-partisan CBO lays it out as plain as day that defunding the IRS is a bad idea. So this shows me that powerful rich people are at work influencing Congress to let them keep more than their share of income and put the tax burden on the working class. I remember when trump did that tax cut and the average Joe got a few hundred dollars while the rich got thousands, millions, and billions. This drove up the deficit and cut services to the public. 'But we ain't care. we could now afford to buy a whole carton of cigarettes and case of beer !'
Nov 26, 1932, quote by Will Rogers “The money was all appropriated for the top in the hopes that it would trickle down to the needy. Mr. Hoover didn’t know that money trickled up. Give it to people at the bottom and people at the top will have it before night, anyhow. But it will at least have passed through the poor fellow’s hands.” I personally think that Mr. Hoover knew damn well that money trickled up, so do current greedy bastards. They just want a direct line
Money does not trickle up under such arrangements. At the very least it is siphoned up.
In recent years, a suction pump.
Trickling was meant for the “lesser beings.” The suction is for the greedy bastards.
Dogs under a feudal lord's table would have been far better off than America's poorer citizens.
I spoke of a new feudalism a long time ago. However, I maligned feudalism -- in which there was a degree of reciprocity, serfs receiving protection and the right to a proportion of their produce in exchange for their services. Even chattel slaves were housed and fed. As for interactions, it was African slaves who showed their masters in the deep South how to farm their land, given their experience of similar conditions in Africa. Conditions unfamiliar to immigrants from temperate climes.
Under Jim Crow, there is no responsibility, no true interaction, blacks were and still are at best ignored, at worst imprisoned or lynched.
The word "Economics" derives from the ancient Greek "oikonomia", meaning household management. Under the pseudo-economics proposed by the champions of oligarchy, America's poorest have a status midway between that of the dogs that live outside human habitations in the third world... and vermin. Perilously close to the outlook of Germany's Nazi Party and consequent policies... strongly influenced by America's Jim Crow laws.
["Woke" is a useful bogeyman for Fascists & friends but the reality is that the woke and their fans are almost all still half asleep and dreaming confused dreams. If woke were in any way proportionate to the oppression suffered over centuries, there would indeed be cause for fear. The idiots want to hide the pus suppurating from a deep, deep wound. They don't realize that they risk creating the very reaction that their own deep-buried guilty conscience fears.]
Your comment shows you're way above my pay grade, although Greek Civilization was part of my double major in education. Comments like yours restore my faith in humanity. There are a number of people on this newsletter that speak to me and that I don't always agree with, but I respect their point of view, hard as it is for me to accept.
You're kind, Eadie, but... “above my pay grade”? Surely not.
After all, I often find it hard to accept my own point of view. My head's quite sure of it, my heart needs time to catch up.
Aren't we all like that, those of us who aren't saints or touched by genius?
I just find it great that we can talk to each other here, talk seriously, gossip, joke, talk about ourselves, talk of the world, talk of our ideas, our beliefs, our commitments, talk about history and what is happening now—talk about what it can all mean.
Some of the things I write, it hurts me to think, it's painful to express, it hurts me to worry that in speaking of things foul I may be fouling myself and others.... The worst thing about evil is how it sticks to you even when you think of it, it sticks and it stains.
More important, always, to seek the truth and try to express it.
It's a rare privilege to meet with people who are doing just that, and there are no few of them here. Thank goodness for that!
The robber barons “tried” to take care of their poorly paid “slaves,” with shanties, company stores and such. A pathetic effort as most have been throughout history. Samuel Gompers is why I am a Dem. Love his take on “economics…”The man who has millions will want everything he can lay his hands on and then raise his voice against the poor devil who wants ten cents more a day.”
Just need to add that "woke" in this context is a long way from the word's meaning, when "woke" meant ownership of one's own feelings about one's self and one's value as a human being, I heard it first used by friends in the black community, then expanded by allies seeking awareness about the reality of black lives in America. Some of those folks were more insightful at that than others. The word as it is used here has been twisted beyond recognition from the original intent. Peter, you are usually more insightful. This disappoints and saddens me. I think I understand what you think youare trying to communicate, but I think instead you just kind of shot past it.
The breeze at dawn has secrets to tell you.
Don't go back to sleep.
You must ask for what you really want.
Don't go back to sleep.
People are going back and forth
across the doorsill
where the two worlds touch.
The door is round and open.
Don't go back to sleep.
*
Rumi
*
I’m sorry, Annie, but now you’re teaching me, and I’m grateful for that. I’d always taken it that “woke” simply meant “awake”—and I understand that is one common current meaning in America.
So, isn’t “awake to myself” where waking up begins, then “alive to myself”… next, waking up to “I’m a man/a woman”?
All that’s gut feeling; awakening to thought follows on after those first stirrings—I, for instance, make a habit at this stage of remembering the presence of my teacher just before I rise to my feet. And that’s the same as awakening to my worth as a human being, indeed the same as remembering that we human beings are all, in the deepest possible—yet hard to imagine—sense, equal.
*
Now, if I spoke in terms of “awake” and “asleep”, it is because I am very much aware that I, too, am more than half asleep. Here’s a quick explanation, if people can grasp what it, a dream, means. (It’s a bit like another dream in which someone knocked at the door, I opened, and… it was ME.)
*
So, I was sixteen years old, at boarding school.
I woke up one morning, got out of bed, walked from the dormitory to the bathroom and had a shower.
Then I realized that I hadn’t woken up at all, I was still in my bed, still asleep, still dreaming.
But I wanted to get up, so I got up. This time, I shaved and got dressed, then realized, yet again, that I hadn’t woken up at all, I was still in my bed, fast asleep.
I went down the stairs.
Same again.
This repeated eleven—11—times. I went to my desk downstairs, I went to chapel for morning prayers, I came back, I looked at my work, I got out all my books—by the ninth time, I was getting desperate.
The eleventh dream found me at the door of the classroom building. Here, at last I really opened my eyes.
*
We believe we’ve woken up, we believe we’re wide awake. Are we?
*
I didn’t need to say more than that we are all equal.
Yet, why am I always coming back to those five words that open Article 1 of the German Basic Law: “Die Würde des Menschen ist unantastbar”? Five words for which no one knows how many died, no one knows how many were maimed, no one can imagine the immensity of suffering. This is translated as “Human dignity shall be inviolable” but I’m struck by Würde/worth, Menschen/man, tast/touch. Don’t mess with man’s worth. Or, in Robbie Burns’ Scots: “A man’s a man for a’ that”.
*
Then let us pray that come it may,
As come it will for a’ that,
That Sense and Worth, o’er a’ the earth
Shall bear the gree an’ a’ that.
For a’ that, an’ a’ that,
It’s comin yet for a’ that,
That Man to Man the warld o’er
Shall brithers be for a’ that.
I consider myself “woke” with no apologies.
👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼
Jeri, this is one of my favorite quotes. I agree that current oligarchs know full well that giving someone a hand up doesn’t weaken them—look how they contribute to their children’s education instead of making them take out student loans.
I have never been an oligarch, but we paid for my daughter’s education. That was back in a time when it was possible for non-oligarch’s to do that. Then the loan sharks found that it was a great scam, about the time that colleges changed to what the traffic would bear. I have to say that inherited wealth tends to make some second generation wealthy kids pretty useless creatures. Us scrappers never had to worry about anything but survival. But the humans among us realize that helping the needy is not only a real Christian tenet but a human moral tenet as well.
Jeri, well said. I’ve never understood why some Christians believe that helping the needy does them harm. My point is that these same people don’t believe that helping their children does them harm (only the poor people and their children).
Exactly, "helping only makes them dependent." How many times have we heard that. With absolutely no idea what some people face every day. And, no interest in having a clue.
Jeri, I can’t count the number of times that I’ve heard someone say “we don’t have much, but I’m damned if we’re going to take handouts from the government “.
Because they find the needy to be morally deficient. If they weren’t, they wouldn’t need help.
: )
My uncle used to tell me that "if you distributed all the money on earth equally, the same folks who had it at first , would end up with it again". It feels good the say that. But it s not 100% accurate. : )
May be true, human beings would not have forgotten how to play pecking order games.
And this has been going on fow HOW long?
rump had gas prices @ $2.15 / gallon too the rump puffers reminisce
And within 2 years they had raised to 2.72/gallon under TFFG
You are correct. Powerful people, billionaires that want more tax cuts by defeuding the IRS. Israel is fighting a propaganda war and their worst enemy is the rethuglican freedom party. They give Jews a bad name and give Hamas a leg up. The freedom party does not care about Israel. Their support just feeds into the Christian fundamentalist cult that Jews will be saved if they accept Jesus Christ.
The Constitutional Convention was not a synod. The Federalist Papers did not originate from various church councils and other religious hierarchies. The Southern Baptist Convention didn't exist at the time, thankfully. Most of all, to my mind, what the framers intended over all of it, was that freedom of religion also brought freedom from religion, the latter being more important.
People like Mike Johnson use their religion. their god, to justify imposing their will on their fellow citizens, while shirking personal responsibility. People have used religion to that end for millennia. I believe that is exactly what the framers sought to avoid.
Religion -- especially monotheism, though Modi in India is using polytheism successfully -- abused by rulers as a powerful political instrument.
Christ's teaching thus used/abused by the Roman empire when Constantine made it the established religion of that empire. Worm in the apple.
Madison and the drafters of the Constitution got the point. So do those who prescribe theocracy and plan to reduce the US Constitution to a semblance.
Successors to the backwoodsmen who opposed the Constitution, claiming that Americans needed only God and the Bible.
A powerful instrument, even when held upside down by one who's not read it.
Don't forget guns.
There's your triple blessing!
I believe there is no greater danger from within the US government than Speaker (and Christifascist) Mike Johnson. I pray that the investigations that have already uncovered that he has never reported having a checking or savings account in his financial disclosure forms... that he “adopted without adopting” a 14 year old Black boy when he was 25... that he offered legal services to an anti-gay, conversion therapy organization ... continue and expose him for the extreme and possibly even perverted person he is... resulting in a Blue Wave in 2024 that weakens the GOP to a point of near irrelevancy... thereby saving democracy.
Very dangerous anti-gay gay guy....like Hoover or Roy Cohen. Self hating haters.
Ah yes, the closeted, anti-gay gay man. There have been many such Republicans. I’m waiting for an investigation to confirm Johnson is one of them too.
I have always believed that the Closeted use their violence or manlyness as cover. The world would be a better place if the closets were emptied.
Yes! It does feel like what magicians call "misdirection".
Here's to closets being emptied (metaphysically speaking) everywhere!
I truly hope that SOMEONE gets to the bottom of never having a checking or savings account. I’m guessing his salary isn’t paid in cash. Who vetted this person?
It appears that many are working hard on that.
He adopted a black teen when he was 25?!?! How did I miss that? Is the media "covering" that up by not reporting it?
Any news about where that teen is now?
There is no cover up. Just Google "Mike Johnson Black son" and you'll see plenty of article. Here's one, from Vanity Fair...
https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2023/10/mike-johnson-new-speaker-black-son
Thank you!
You’re welcome 😊
It seems that every few years a new generation must fight this same battle. 😎
Changing the belief in any myth and superstition is an exercise in futility. People fervently believe that their eternal existence is more important than their earthly existence. Consequently they will do almost anything to exhibit their commitment to their beliefs. They much prefer faith to facts.
They prefer ignorance to learning. They think head in the sand is a safe position. I know them well. True for some chump haters as well as most chump lovers.
Do they not realize that a head in the sand exposes one's rump? Maybe that's why they are all "asses"?
Excellent point, that’s the part that is most visible. Wouldn’t mind kicking a few
True and it is really sad, isn't it!
It's true, Colette, but it isn't sad -- it's life! Constitutions, democratic institutions are living things and need to be cherished, fed, watered by every generation -- or they die.
We -- by which I mean successive generations -- have taken these things, our rights and our responsibilities to ourselves and to one another, for granted.
We have neglected them. We have put them on an altar, worshipping them, proclaiming them in creeds mumbled, sung or shouted, the better to forget them... and forget ourselves.
Now we're paying the price.
Great recap on the accounting irony. The narrative is very thin. The House isn't hiding the motivations to protect the rich GOP donors. A double standard
Typically the IRS has 3 years to audit a return. These guys are trying to run out the clock
In order to make sure men had the right of conscience, the First Amendment to the Constitution reads: “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof….”
I worry that a strict interpretation of this would allow the Executive and Judicial branches free rein to regulate the way we practice religion... or choose not to.
Especially since authoritarians seem to favor the "unitary executive" and a Supreme Court that seems to distort history, becoming, in effect, an "activist court" beyond any checks or balances.
Bob, it's my worry, too. The fundamentalists on SCOTUS do it all the time. And it's patently clear that anyone who takes a "literal" interpretation of the Bible is using that insanely contracdictory and man-made document any way they want to to justify anything they want. Of course they're going to perform the same moral gymnastics with the Constitution, Declaration, and our legal system.
Just the phrase "a man and his god" shows how tenuous it is - not the stuff to make laws by.
Or just the phrase "a man."
Agreed, Alexandra. Why men only?
I always thought it meant “paws off” for the establishment or for the prohibition…period.
Bob, I don't understand how these words CAN be misconstrued. Except by an idiot or a conjurer-conman.
?
Because the amendment mentions Congress, whose responsibility is to make laws. It is not given to either the Executive or Judicial Branches.
The concept of a "Unitary Executive" is one they wanted to avoid; an activist court was something they never envisioned.
Yes. I was just wondering where Bob was going with his fears.You are sharp Ally.
You don't worry alone.
How can we avert our eyes from Gaza? The punishment for nothing they have done that Netanyahu is inflicting on the Palestinians is ghastly. He was using Hamas as a way to keep the Palestinian Authority at bay. Antisemitism is on fire. We are witnessing the effects of what the egos of Putin, Netanyahu, Trump and their ilk do to 'civilization'.
'Israeli strikes on Gaza refugee camp offer glimpse of war’s destruction' (WAPO, excerpt)
JERUSALEM — Kamal Masoud was at home with his wife and five children on Tuesday afternoon in the Jabalya refugee camp. They were talking about how to survive a bombardment when the Israeli missiles struck.
“The entire area was wiped out,” Masoud told The Washington Post by phone, hours after a series of Israeli strikes devastated his neighborhood in the northern Gaza Strip, flattening several residential buildings and leaving gaping craters in the concrete.'
'More than 110 people were killed and hundreds more wounded in the attack, according to doctors at two nearby hospitals, in what appeared to be the deadliest aerial assault by Israel since the war began. The final toll remained unclear, Palestinian officials said, because victims were still trapped under the rubble.'
'Masoud and his family survived. But 30 of his relatives were killed, he said, among them children as young as 2 months old.'
'Israeli strikes on Jabalya refugee camp kill and injure hundreds in Gaza'
“There is no safe place in the invasion,” he said of Israel’s ground operations, which have steadily expanded since Friday — part of what Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu has called the “second phase of the war.”
'The strike on Jabalya offers a glimpse of the destruction wrought across Gaza by Israel’s relentless air war, and the grave dangers facing civilians as Israeli ground forces move deeper into the enclave. At least 8,796 Gazans have been killed since the start of the conflict, according to Gaza’s Health Ministry, and 22,219 wounded.'
'By geolocating the edges of the destruction and comparing it with satellite imagery, The Post determined that the scale of the damage spanned roughly 50,000 square feet — nearly the size of a football field — and that the strike toppled or scarred more than a dozen buildings. Debris from the explosion appears to have blackened rooftops in multiple directions.' (WAPO) See gifted link below.
https://wapo.st/40jGjqO
I do not believe we are diverting our eyes, We must breathe. We must do all we can to save OUR nation in order that we will be able be there for others. This requires meaningful action and clear communucation, which, so far is still allowed but in great danger in this country.
Netanyahu is a criminal. Now he is a war criminal. Almost all here are very aware and angry about the situation in Gaza,
So true. Albert Schweitzer once said “Think occasionally of the suffering of which you spare yourself the sight.” Most of us do, and are bombarded daily with so much that is hard to bear. Others keep up with the Kardashians…
Included with the minutia I pick up everyday, Ivanka left her new house on Billionaire’s Row to fly to CA for Kim K’s b’day party.
My laugh for the day
Ransom Rideout, I think that a great number of people are diverting their eyes from the horror being vested upon those Palestinians in the Gaza strip because any criticism of Israel is seen as being anti-Semitic. It is impossible to be upset by both the Hamas attack and by the Israeli response without being taken to task by one group or the other. Jessica Craven had a good piece on November 1 over that very thing. It is worth the read.
https://open.substack.com/pub/chopwoodcarrywaterdailyactions/p/chop-wood-carry-water-111-c24?r=3hlhv&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=email
I have not opened Jessica's piece yet. She's good. My point was only that we here are all aware of the attrocities from each side, and when we are dealing with our own survival, especially in regard to being able to help others, saving ourselves is of even greater importance. You can't save anyone if you can't save yourself first. This is every bit as important.
Critisism of Israel can never be equated with anti-Semitism. It is legitamate and one can not turn a blind eye to reality. A large number, the majority, of Israelie's are outraged by Netanyahu. Critisizing the government of Israel is in support of THEM. Netanyhu and his party are so far to the right as to justify being called Fascists. He does not represent the majority in Israel.
I am fine with being attacked. I will not bend history. The Jewish people were pawns in a European power play to justify a military presence in the Middle East to oversee the oil rich sheikdoms it had just created and settle a debt. The Jewish people and the Palestinians are both the victims.
As noted in Heather's letter we were all reading, there is serious business to attend to that has a direct effect on that woman's comment. The immages are burned into our conciousness. Our eyes are necessary to attend to that business.
Ally, you made a crucial point. Those who question Israel's military obliteration of Gaza, along with many of the 2.3 Palestinians who live there are often targeted. Any questioning of Israeli's policies toward the Palestinians before the war and now is forbidden and that includes any criticism of Biden essentially continuing Trump's policies, while promising important support for them when he was a candidate. In the spirit of your thinking, to have a great deal of respect for Biden does not mean that he is or could be 'perfect'.
Perfection is not possible. In a political world there is much bending and balancing going on. His hug of Netanyahu is a point of contention, but part of that balancing act. Netanyahu has ignored Biden's words of caution to his own peril.
Both of your points are well taken.
Exactly so!
Ally, in case you miss the post above..
Perfection is not possible. In a political world there is much bending and balancing going on. His hug of Netanyahu is a point of contention, but part of that balancing act. Netanyahu has ignored Biden's words of caution to his own peril.
The best comment I’ve read is by Professor Ruth Ben- Ghiat who studies autocrats and autocracy. RSN published it.
'WASHINGTON (AP) — The U.S. has already begun delivering critically needed munitions and military equipment to Israel, the White House said Monday, as the Pentagon reviews its inventories to see what else can be sent quickly to boost its ally in the three-day-old war with Hamas.'
'John Kirby, a spokesman for the National Security Council, confirmed Monday evening that the first batch of military aid in the wake of the violent assault by Hamas militants is “making its way” to Israel.'
“We fully expect there will be additional requests for security assistance for Israel as they continue to expend munitions in this fight,” Kirby said. “We will stay in lockstep with them, making sure that we’re filling their needs as best we can and as fast as we can.” (AP) See link below.
https://apnews.com/article/israel-palestinians-hamas-state-department-39b9e7f15334ff756f022704f9516867
Our country is helping!!! Israel. The USA has done some bad things; this one takes the cake.
Horrific things are done in war--What "took the cake" was dropping the atomic bomb on Hiroshima and Nagasaki. We seem to have a short attention span when it comes to our own horrific past.
There will be no peace in the Hamas/Israel war until three things happen,: Hamas is eradicated, Israeli's get rid of the corrupt current government and its ties to its own ultra-nationalist right wing that is fomenting an expansion in the West Bank, and a government is established for the Palestinians that actually cares about the people.
In the meantime the top priority has to be preventing the war from involving more states. Biden is walking a tightrope where he is trying to protect the Palestinians by pushing for aid and trying to use leverage on the Israelis while keeping the conflict from widening. The arms to Israel is symbolic, along with the repositioned carriers, and is messaging to keep other states out. None of Israel's neighbors are willing to take in more Palestinians which is why Egypt is not opening the crossings to allow more than a trickle of aid in to Gaza. Biden is having to cajole Egypt to let even that in. Hamas, which is using Gazans as human shields doesn't want them to leave either. They are the true evil actors here and their intent is to destroy Israel and to use the bombing to get more recruits among the Gazans. Their true intent there is clear from the fact that they did nothing in advance of the initial terrorist attack to store food and water and fuel and medicines for the general population. Iran also wants to derail all of the efforts for Arab nations to normalize relations with Israel that were close to completion before the Hamas attack.
There are always wrongs on all sides in wars. Here in the United States the polarization is being stoked with attacks and threats on Muslims and Jews. It's being stoked by disinformation on both sides. It's being used to create dysfunction in our own government. We have to recognize the full scope of what is happening and understand what Biden is trying to do. Repudiating Israel will guarantee it is attacked by all of the Iranian allied forces in the area and that will kill more Israelis, Palestinians inside Israel, and give a greenlight to the far right Nationalists in Israel to go on their own rampage in retaliation. Does that ultimately make things better?
'Before Oct. 7, analysts were fretting more about the West Bank, not Gaza, as the potential spark for an explosion of Israeli and Palestinian violence. The calendar year had seen a surge in violence involving Palestinians and Israeli settlers — the latter emboldened by a coterie of influential far-right ministers holding top positions in the cabinet of Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu. Human rights groups tracked an escalation in attacks by armed setters, who stormed through Palestinian villages, vandalized Palestinian property and destroyed Palestinian crops. A tense security environment saw an uptick in Palestinian militancy, with Israel’s military deploying the bulk of its manpower to counter perceived threats in the West Bank.'
'Even before the Islamist group Hamas’s bloody rampage through southern Israeli towns and kibbutzim three weeks ago, which triggered a punishing, brutal Israeli response, 2023 was the deadliest year for Palestinians in the West Bank in two decades. But in the aftermath of the deadliest day in Israel’s history, the scales have tipped even further. In the shadow of the war in Gaza, Israeli settlers have ramped up their attacks on Palestinian communities in the West Bank. Groups of settler vigilantes, some roaming around on ATVs, have set fire to Palestinian homes. A Palestinian man harvesting olives was gunned down by a Jewish settler this weekend.'
'The Israeli human rights group B’Tselem says at least seven Palestinians have been killed by Israeli settlers since the war in Gaza began; more than 100 Palestinians in the West Bank have been killed by Israeli forces over the same time period, according to the United Nations, as tensions boil over. Hundreds of Palestinians have been driven from their homes by settlers, who appear to be acting with a degree of impunity. It has raised fears among Palestinians in the West Bank that the current febrile moment could be a prelude to a wider campaign of violence and expulsion.'
“The war in Gaza gave the settlers the green light,” Tariq Mustafa, who fled his home in the Bedouin community of Wadi Siq after threats from armed settlers, told my colleagues. “Before, they would yell at us to go to Ramallah. Now they are telling us to go all the way to Jordan.”
'The Israeli campaign against Hamas, entrenched in the Gaza Strip, is understandably dominating attention. But it’s allowed an already deteriorating situation in the West Bank to drift in an alarming direction.'
“The lack of attention has allowed the settlers and their enforcement bodies, official (the military and the police) and semi-official (the settlements’ security officers and right-wing volunteers acting as escorts), to escalate their attacks against Palestinian herders and farmers with a clear goal: to expel more communities from their land and homes,” wrote Haaretz journalist Amira Hass.'
'According to the Israeli human rights organization Yesh Din, settlers attacked Palestinians in the West Bank on 100 different occasions and in at least 62 locations from Oct. 7 to Oct. 22 — with that figure undoubtedly higher a week later. But the violence is part of a deeper trend. According to September U.N. data, 12 percent of Palestinian herding communities in the West Bank had been forced from their homes because of settler intimidation and violence.'
“The Israeli government is supportive of these attacks and does nothing to stop this violence,” noted a recent statement from 30 Israeli human rights groups and civil-society organizations. “On the contrary: government ministers and other officials are backing the violence and in many cases the military is present or even participates in the violence, including in incidents where settlers have killed Palestinians.”
'Netanyahu’s far-right government includes a number of extremist politicians who specifically champion the expansion of settlements in the West Bank and the annexation of some of its land — moves that are viewed broadly by the international community as illegal and an impediment to the creation of a viable Palestinian state. The latter is a cause rejected outright by figures such as like Finance Minister Bezalel Smotrich and National Security Minister Itamar Ben Gvir, who emerged from the far-right fringes of Israeli politics to positions of influence in Netanyahu’s cabinet. Smotrich infamously called this year for the flattening of an entire Palestinian town in the West Bank. Ben Gvir, in recent weeks, has gone about various Israeli towns and West Bank settlements distributing high-powered guns to local civilians.'
'Jewish settler population in West Bank passes half a million'
'Their increasing clout and angry worldview have hung over a year of spiraling violence in the West Bank. And it may be all the more validated as Israeli attitudes grow more hawkish in the wake of Hamas’s atrocities. About half a million settlers live in the West Bank, in settlements that abut the lands and homes of a Palestinian population six times their number. For the Israeli right, their security concerns are paramount. For Palestinians, life under a relentless military occupation is only stoking further despair and radicalization. Since Oct. 7, Israeli security forces have detained hundreds of Palestinians in the West Bank as part of a wider crackdown on potential militancy.'
“Israel’s sweeping security measures in the West Bank are an extension of its war against Hamas in Gaza, an attempt to eliminate the militant group and permanently shift the balance of power in a conflict that has raged for decades,” my colleagues reported a week ago. “But many Palestinians and some analysts warn the measures could have the opposite effect. Hamas’s presence is limited in the West Bank, where the rival Fatah movement holds power, but many of its aims are shared by a new generation of militant groups that have taken up arms here over the last year. The fighters are young, loosely organized and opportunistic.”
'Sensing the looming troubles, the Biden administration has urged Israel to rein in its extremist settlers. President Biden said last week that their actions and incitement were “pouring gasoline” on an already volatile situation. But in the current climate, with Netanyahu bent on a “mighty vengeance,” that’s easier said than done.'
“A responsible Israeli government would approach Israel’s challenge in the West Bank as the two-front battle that it truly is: against Palestinian and Jewish violence alike,” wrote Alex Lederman of the Israel Policy Forum. “But this problem transcends Israel’s current political reality. Just as this war is prompting Israelis to question long-held assumptions about how Israel should navigate the challenges posed by Hamas in Gaza, it should also spur a reckoning about the unnecessary and avoidable security burden posed by the settlement movement.”
'In the West Bank, ordinary Palestinians are bracing for worse to come. “Fear fills the air as people remember a 2002 Israeli invasion that destroyed much of the West Bank’s infrastructure and left many people dead,” wrote Ramallah-based journalist Dalia Hatuqa. “A repetition of that invasion is the specter in people’s minds as they clear out grocery store shelves, anticipating another stretch of long days being trapped inside due to an army curfew which may or may not come.” (WAPO, By Ishaan Tharoor
Ishaan, foreign affairs columnist at The Washington Post, where he authors the Today's WorldView newsletter and column.) Copied in full from October 31, 2023 at 2:02 a.m. EDT.
Thanks for the article on the West Bank situation. What has to be remembered is that 450,000 out of 9.5 million Israelis demonstrated against Netanyahu and his far right coalition just a few months ago . There are people of good conscience who seek peace everywhere.
Thank you Fern. This is Netanyahus mess and the Israeli people see it.
Georgia, had to check this before posting to make sure it wasn’t just a rumor: Apparently Hamas is hoarding fuel (and other supplies) for their purposes rather than providing desperately needed fuel to the hospitals: https://www.nbcnews.com/news/investigations/hamas-hoarding-vast-amounts-fuel-gaza-hospitals-run-low-us-officials-s-rcna122977 I watch this whole thing & the spreading misery with broken-hearted horror.
Thank you for adding this. It points out both how horrible the plight of the Gazans is and how Hamas places no priority on the basic well-being of those people. In fact, it does not look like the slow death of innocent Gazan children from disease and starvation means any more to Hamas than the quick brutal murder of Israeli innocent ones.
I live in an area close to NYC and my daughter's middle school classmates lost parents in 9/11. The repercussions of that terrorist act still linger, but this is more shocking because the Hamas attack intentionally killed children. And now more innocent children are being killed by the Israeli response attempting to destroy Hamas.
I am not ignoring the whole long, complicated history of the Middle East, but 9/11 hit close to home for me, and I pass the memorials to those dead every time I go into the center of my town. I remember going to a lookout point and seeing the smoke rising form the rubble at the World Trade Center. The Hamas act that started this next phase in the Middle East wars seems so much more brutal. And it is so clear to me that that was the intent.
Exactly. Biden is balancing on a swinging tightrope in a heavy wind. Everything he does will anger someone. The far right in Israel are asking for it, beliving the unlimited US military support will allow them to do whatever they want. Netanyahu is their boy and he needs a war to stay out of jail.
Very many moving parts and a long complicated history.
Thank you for your thoughts regarding this. I HOPE Biden is doing the right thing...he always does...this situation is extremely difficult and he has to win the next election for all our sakes.
Fern Murder is murder, whether it’s Hamas brutal savagery in slaughtering Israelis or Netanyahu’s slaughtering countless thousands of Palestinians civilians who have no where to escape air strikes and Israeli Defense Force ground attacks.
I fervently hope that the United States is not rushing to Israel artillery shells and support for the Israeli Air Force, while Gaza Palestinians are experiencing greater short-term killing than Putin has inflicted on Ukrainian civilians.
Professor (Emeritus), I think you are forgetting something. HAMAS is actually killing both Palestinians (by forcing the people of Gaza to be human shields which they hide behind under ground) and Israelis in their homes. And, yes Netanyahu belongs in jail.
I don't think we are forgetting anything, it is just that this criminal who has done more than any neo-Nazi to foment anti-Semitism, is doing just what those who planned and executed the deliberately vile attack on Israeli citizens expected and wanted him to do.
Just as those who planned 9/11 meant it to trigger a chain reaction bomb. And more than succeeded -- thanks to Bush Cheney Rumsfeld et al.
This time the trap was even nastier and more cunningly set. And the victims on both sides are ordinary human beings. For the key Hamas planners, probably in safety elsewhere, Gaza citizens too are at once expendable and useful as martyrs.
I read that on the West Bank fanatical Jewish settlers have been launching pogroms against their Palestinian neighbors.
Someone must step in fast and stop this playing with fire near to gasoline.
(Danger, then, of a Waco scenario -- more martyrs to an ultra-extremist cause.)
Peter, they are living in tunnels, under Shifa hospital in Qatar. You hit the nail on the head. Israel is fighting a propaganda war and Netanyahu opened Pandora's box. I believe Israeli's will vote him out of office. Whether he goes to jail for his corruption is still questionable. He and tRump would make interesting bedfellows.
Corrections. The Hamas fighters are in a deep tunnel network, especially -- according to Israeli sources -- under hospitals and schools. And the Shifa hospital is in Gaza, not Qatar.
I'd say that Hamas blasted the lock on Pandora's box and Netanyahu and his extremist bedfellows opened the lid wide when they promised and delivered, not justice but deliberate vengeance.
That said, any government of any country would have faced an almost impossibly difficult situation if presented with a comparable attack on its citizens and cities coming from a small, densely populated entity. This is what makes the ruthlessly cynical Hamas move so diabolically effective. The accumulation of arms, together with the complex tunnel network under Gaza make for a trap both military and political, one into which the Hamas planners fully intended to draw the IDF, in the knowledge that any Israeli attack must harm their own civilians and, in so doing, isolate Jews and non-Muslims, provoking a wave of hatred for kafirun and, in particular, for America, seen as guarantor of oppression.
Sorry, of course you're correct. I think I was mistaken about the whole operation. Gaza City is where I thought Shifa hospital was located, however, the article didn't mention the name of the hospital I read. It is probably because the commander of operations was in a tunnel along with other terrorist operatives under a bldg, not the Shifa hospital, that Israel bombed. They bombed the the tunnels that led to the foundation collapsing and anyone near that bldg. was killed.
‘A curse to be a parent in Gaza' (AP)
'More than 3,600 Palestinian children were killed in the first 25 days of the war between Israel and Hamas, according to Gaza’s Hamas-run Health Ministry. They were hit by airstrikes, smashed by misfired rockets, burned by blasts and crushed by buildings, and among them were newborns and toddlers, avid readers, aspiring journalists and boys who thought they’d be safe in a church.'
'Nearly half of the crowded strip’s 2.3 million inhabitants are under 18, and children account for 40% of those killed so far in the war. An Associated Press analysis of Gaza Health Ministry data released last week showed that as of Oct. 26, 2,001 children ages 12 and under had been killed, including 615 who were 3 or younger.'
“When houses are destroyed, they collapse on the heads of children,” writer Adam al-Madhoun said Wednesday as he comforted his 4-year-old daughter Kenzi at the Al Aqsa Martyrs Hospital in the central Gaza city of Deir al-Balah. She survived an airstrike that ripped off her right arm, crushed her left leg and fractured her skull.'
'Israel says its airstrikes target Hamas militant sites and infrastructure, and it accuses the group of using civilians as human shields. It also says more than 500 militant rockets have misfired and landed in Gaza, killing an unknown number of Palestinians.'
“Gaza has become a graveyard for thousands of children,” said James Elder, a spokesperson for UNICEF, the U.N. children’s agency.
'Images and footage of shell-shocked children being pulled from rubble in Gaza or writhing on dirty hospital gurneys have become commonplace and have fueled protests around the world. Scenes from recent airstrikes included a rescuer cradling a limp toddler in a bloodied white tutu, a bespectacled father shrieking as he clutched his dead child tight to his chest, and a dazed young boy covered in blood and dust staggering alone through the ruins.' (AP) See link below.
There is no reason, bruce klassen, for you to think that Keith Wheelock is forgetting anything. He is pointing to the Israel military attacks on Jabalya refugee camp and that there is so safe place in Gaza for the more than 2.3 million Palestinians who live there.
https://apnews.com/article/israel-hamas-11-1-2023-children-killed-4a352398b32887e60a658e0270f0a021
How do you comfort a 4-year-old in that state?
'Israel makes a desolation and may call it peace'
'The Roman historian Tacitus famously conjured a line that still resonates from antiquity. “They make a desert, and call it peace,” concluded a bitter Caledonian enemy of the Romans, whose speech reproduced in Tacitus’s chronicle decried the injustices wrought by the powerful empire as its legions rampaged across the land.'
'Israeli politicians, including Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, cast their ongoing campaign in the Gaza Strip as a war of justice and retribution against the savagery of Islamist group Hamas, which is responsible for the single deadliest assault on Israel since the Jewish state’s founding. In a shock Oct. 7 raid, militants infiltrated across the fortified border and killed some 1,400 Israelis in numerous town and kibbutzim, while abducting more than 230 hostages.'
'In their zeal to punish Hamas, Israel has already triggered a deep humanitarian crisis for the besieged enclave of 2.3 million people and killed more than 8,500 people, including over 3,500 children, and destroyed thousands of buildings in the crammed territory amid relentless aerial bombardments. A statement from UNICEF, the U.N. children’s agency, called Gaza “a graveyard for thousands of children” — such is the shocking rate by which Israeli airstrikes are pulverizing homes and the families sheltering within. “It’s a living hell for everyone else,” the statement said.'
'The latest brutal hit took place Tuesday when Israeli forces dropped bombs on the densely populated Jabalya refugee camp in northern Gaza, ostensibly to eliminate a senior Hamas military commander. But the bombs flattened a whole neighborhood — destroying some 20 buildings, according to local accounts — and killing more than 100 people. My colleagues reported that Israel also carried out subsequent strikes on the area.'
“I was waiting in line to buy bread when suddenly and without any prior warning seven to eight missiles fell,” an eyewitness, Mohammad Ibrahim, told CNN. “There were seven to eight huge holes in the ground, full of killed people, body parts all over the place. It felt like the end of the world.”
'The scale and speed of what’s taking place has horrified many onlookers. Over the weekend, Craig Mokhiber, the director of the New York office of the U.N. high commissioner for human rights, resigned his post, arguing that the United Nations was once again failing to thwart what he described as a “textbook case for genocide.”
“The current wholesale slaughter of the Palestinian people, rooted in an ethno-nationalist colonial settler ideology, in continuation of decades of their systematic persecution and purging, based entirely upon their status as Arabs … leaves no room for doubt,” Mokhiber wrote in a letter that was widely circulated on social media and panned by some defenders of Israel as effectively calling for the dissolution of the Jewish state.'
'Any determination of “genocide” is both highly fraught and usually anchored in clear legal precedents. Raz Segal, an Israeli historian of the Holocaust, argued two weeks ago that Israel was already complicit in violating at least three of the five acts of the U.N. Genocide Convention in its war on Hamas in Gaza, which has triggered a huge dislocation of the Palestinian population there and raised the specter of potential mass expulsion from Gaza.'
'On Tuesday, an Israeli military spokesman described the loss of civilian life in Jabalya as an unfortunate “tragedy of war.” But that sentiment belies the views of many in Israel who seek a more definitive outcome — not merely the full defeat of Hamas, but the flattening of Gaza and the entire context where Hamas emerged. Segal cited the rhetoric of numerous Israeli politicians calling for de facto collective punishment of Palestinians living in Gaza in the immediate aftermath of the Hamas attack — a body of statements that’s only grown in the days since.'
'On Wednesday, Galit Distel Atbaryan, a former minister in Netanyahu’s government, called on social media for the “erasing all of Gaza from the face of the earth” and urged the mass eviction of Palestinians — “that the Gazan monsters will fly to the southern fence and try to enter Egyptian territory, or they will die.”
'Even for more sober-minded Israelis, there’s a hardened belief that the old status quo over Gaza cannot return. The Hamas strike was interpreted by some in Israel as an indictment of old policies, including the 2005 withdrawal of settlers and troops from the Gaza Strip that ended the military occupation of the territory — though Israel has nevertheless exercised deep control over much of what happens within Gaza through an asphyxiating economic blockade and a tight security regime.'
“The lesson many are arguing now is that Israel should never relinquish territory, should always maintain complete security control over all territory and that Palestinians should never be allowed to have self-determination,” Dahlia Scheindlin, an Israeli political scientist, told me during a Tuesday panel that I moderated at the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace.'
'Scheindlin pointed to the vague ideas of an endgame floated by Israeli officials and commentators in the still-remote scenario that Gaza is effectively purged of Hamas fighters. These include a desire to at least temporarily reoccupy Gaza, transfer authority for the territory to the Palestinian Authority — which holds sway in the West Bank and has already ruled out any postwar role in Gaza absent a broader political solution between Israelis and Palestinians — or some form of international peacekeeping arrangement whenever hostilities die down. The Israeli publication Local Call reported this week about a leaked internal document within Israel’s Intelligence Ministry suggesting the wholesale depopulation of Gaza and de facto ethnic cleansing.'
'One of the reasons there may be an Israeli “preference for moving Palestinians into Egypt” as opposed to ushering in PA control of the territory, observed Zaha Hassan, a fellow at the Carnegie Endowment, at the same panel, is that successive Israeli administrations have capitalized on Palestinian disunity to extend control over the occupied territories and expand settlements in the West Bank.'
“Israel has had a strategic interest in not seeing a unified Palestinian entity that could make peace with Israel and advance a two-state solution,” Hassan said, invoking the moribund vision of separate Israeli and Palestinian states existing side-by-side.'
'Paradoxically, even as Israel lays waste to swaths of the Gaza Strip, the need for such an arrangement is only growing more urgent. “No one has any utopian illusions that a diplomatic process which failed to yield a solution for over three decades will suddenly succeed after the deep trauma inflicted on Israel by Hamas’ October 7 attack and the destruction being caused in Gaza with Israel’s resulting war to destroy Hamas,” Anshel Pfeffer wrote in Haaretz. “However, to bring this war to an end, there will be no choice but to at least be open to such a possibility.” (WAPO, Today's WorldView, By Ishaan Tharoor,with Sammy Westfall) Copied in full.
Very well stated Fern McBride; However, that is actually not what I was thinking. I'll try to be more explicit. I was thinking that the Gaza Palestinians are being killed by both sides, once again. They are the victims once again. They are "thrown to the wolves" once again. This time it's the HAMAS 'brothers' and those controlling them (some say Iran). Not only Israel. What was forgotten (or left out on purpose or accident) was the historical context. The Arab community's complicity in killing and oppressing Palestinians has been going on since before the Nakba in 1948 when the Palestinian's Arab "brothers" stood by and let the West make their fateful deception in 1919 reality (re: the so called Faisal-Weizman agreement). And, that was not the last time the Palestinians looked to other "brothers" for help against oppression and were served up nothing. Palestinians deserve some peace and a new homeland, but that's not what Hamas and Hamas' controllers want...because Hamas wants them as Human ....No I won't say it again, Judy.
To quote you bruce klassen, 'Palestinians deserve some peace and a new homeland, ...' How much is 'some peace' for the Palestinians? '...and a 'new' homeland? 'New' ? Have you put your thinking cap on to assess how that measures up to Israel's policies and treatment of the Palestinians? How close or far away are your thoughts from those of Netanyahu and his administration?
My thoughts (which don't really matter) are probably far away from N's (I am not privy to them). Peace is peace, since you are testing my specific words. My point of view would be a lasting peace for Palestinians and Israelis. 'New' is because the Ottoman Empire occupied 'Palestine' before 1918 (for more than 300/400 years) and the British after them until 1948 in the East and Jordan/Egypt in the West Bank until 1967. Israel's policies and treatment of those people whom we currently call Palestinians is an apartheid abomination worsened even recently by Netanyahu's flight to the Right (from going to prison). So, I can't believe for a second that that will change, even as many Israeli's seem to be for some kind of accommodation, and a two state solution is being spoken of again. However, that said, do you believe that any of the Arab 'brothers' policies would be beneficial to the 'Palestinian' people, or bring peace?
Please Fern, let us not split hairs to finely. A NEW homeland at this point might be only because the existing one is being obliterted by Fascistic rightwing crininals of whom Netanyahu is their leader. I have written much about what Bruce posts below. Please read it carefully.
Gaza is packed with people...They aren't "human shields".....there isn't anywhere that people aren't. The captives: will they be bombed by Israel also? My guess is Yes.
Judy As a Foreign Service Officer I was physically deeply involved in 1964 in trying to rescue over 3,000 foreign hostages under Congolese rebel death threat.
We were horrified by what the rebels were doing to Congolese and foreigners. HOWEVER, at no time did we consider a rescue operation that endangered the non-rebel population, though some seemed supportive of the rebels.
I have been following recent events in the West Bank, where there are over 2 million Palestinians and 500,000 Israeli settlers who have been ‘intruded’ illegally on to Arab land. The killing of Palestinians has increased significantly since October 7th and armed Israeli settlers are mistreating (and killing) unarmed Palestinians.
I consider it unconscionable that tens of thousands of Gaza Palestinians will be killed and wounded as ‘revenge’ for a brutal and savage Hamas attack.
If you were a Palestinian, would you look favorably on Israel once this extensive military action terminates? Personally, I expect that this would provide a breeding ground for even more Hamas-type terrorists.
I am learning about this almost every waking hour. Last night, at 2am!, I researched Former IDF soldiers on youtube...some spoke of how they could no longer support the abuse and terrorism they were putting on the people of Gaza. Another had soldiers, not former, who spoke about how they deal with their job in the West Bank. sadistic. there are almost as many military soldiers in the West Bank as settlers. They are there to monitor every move the Palestinians make and protect and support and be fed goodies by the settlers.
I have studied the Jewish thing on my own since 1960, I was 19...that is when I discovered that good people like me, a German American did THAT terrible thing to those cool jews.. I saw Jews as using their brains and were fringe.....I got a book detailing Jewish history back to the 12th century........the Jews always get themselves into a situation where they become victims. It used to be the Christ killer accusation but that is over. The GD Evangelicals LOVE them. Now, they have a country all their own and look what's happening. They could have gotten along with the indigenous population but they planned way before '48 to get rid of them. They have the most powerful country in the world as their bestest friend. A formula for disaster. What is happening now is beyond insane. They justify it. Israel is definitely in trouble but the biggest problem is the bloody region. Who is going to lob an atom bomb over Iran or wherever, first? The Jews are supposed to so smart. They are using their smarts to ....put themselves right back into victimhood. I'm really sick of the human race. Too many that are in charge are a-holes.
AND.....Yes, this would provide a breeding ground for even more Hamas-type terrorists. Rebellion against constant severe abuse.
YES
So, you’re a collective punishment guy? And make selective demands here?
https://consortiumnews.com/2023/11/01/asad-abukhalil-do-you-condemn-israel/?eType=EmailBlastContent&eId=82faf6a8-13da-49d4-9966-1c3077801a6e
Thank you, Keith.
Those in the Israeli government are savages. Just like Putin's. No one can stop it. Is this something we will have to get used to? Those who survive these living hell atrocities will be scared forever.
Fern, One life taken is too many. It's horrifying to see what's taking place in Palestine. It is also horrifying to see babies beheaded and thrown to the curb, ripped out of their mother's womb and young kids enjoying a music festival murdered in cold blood. Listing the casualties of war simply indicates whose side we're on. I understand that you see the large numbers of Palestinians caught up in this fight as tragic. I agree more than you probably will ever know. 1400 Israelis dead are equal to 50,000 Americans. Jews number 9. 1 million, Americans number 330 million. However, in my feeble attempt to balance the scales, you must also be aware that the moniker refugee camp is misleading. It's one of the bases of operations Hamas's operative terrorists are working from. Hundreds of these operatives were killed in the most recent Israeli attack. The collapsed bldg. you see in video footage was where the Hamas commander that orchestrated the 10/7 attack was living under, in a tunnel with many more of his cohorts. Israel destroyed the tunnels they lived in and the foundation the bldg rested on collapsed. Yes, innocents lives were taken in or near the facility. Yes, Netanyahu like Bush 2 was aware and warned of the 10/7 attack as Bush 2 was of 911. IMHO, you are a compassionate and articulate writer usually you back up by your comments by good sources. My hope is that you will be open to reading the Times of Israel, the Jerusalem Post, the Jewish Virtual Library as a reference to balance your point of view. Again, I respect you have the right to your opinion, but on this issue I believe you need to give equal weight to the Israeli side of the issue.
Fern, I am happy you appreciated this comment. I just want you to know I respect your opinion and that is why I needed to respond to some of the comments you made. I hope it didn't sound like a rant, but there are many more on this thread that share your general opinion, and I believe more than one voice needs to be at the table. You make this newsletter worth reading because of the well researched comments you provide. So I will continue to read your comments with the respect they deserve.
Eadie, thank you for your thoughtful response. I have tried not to express my personal opinions about Israel's war on Hamas. As usual I tried to bring information, with sources, well considered commentary, questions, etc., to my comments and replies. Venting (airing strong emotional feelings) is not my thing, but I did let my guard down in one exchange on this thread, yesterday. In the midst of Climate Change, collapsing Democracies, the war in Ukraine, the threats to our country 's democracy; Israel's government and its war have added consuming alarm to my days. I think that Israel's war is about more than Hamas. I am Jewish and what happens to us is part of who I am. My inclination is to understand more, and you will probably continue to find my comments rather even keeled but sometimes strongly decided on one side or another. We go on together, Eadie!
Thank you Fern;
I have to admit I was surprised when you said you are Jewish. Your name is misleading. I believe you are in the same camp as J. Street, Peter Beinart, Ben Ami etc., Robert Reich, so you have a lot of company. IMO, I find that I'm sure you have done your research, but we all favor sources that agree with us, me included. I reiterate, give the Jerusalem Post and the Times of Israel a try. I feel the same way as you do when someone tries to ask me to watch FOX news. It goes against everything I believe, or to give the UN another try. I guess we'll have to agree to disagree and yes I will continue to follow your comments, because I believe you are intelligent, well read and try to inform us all on this thread.
Meta- dysfunction! It is a broken record all over again, like 5C BC. "there is a time for war". The wars of hate must stop NOW. Throw the record into the trash heap of history forever.
Thank you, as always, Fern McBride for what you bring to us.
Put honestly or another way, southern Christian Republican Speaker Mike is a lying racist and fascist that wants to destroy our democracy by directing our government into mess with our religious freedoms and the right to choose what we do with faith, Sunday morning, our belief or denial in the supernatural, and Speaker Mike lies openly without contest from his Republican Party leadership about the impact of his tax policy, the IRS and the budget impact obliging the CBO to declare his blatant disregard for fact and the truth of his position on cutting the IRS budget to appeal to our most wealthy tax cheats.
Speaker Mike is another liar sitting as Speaker. Hastert and Agnew come to mind, both Republicans.
Clearly, Speaker Mike is a lying hypocrite on taxing the rich, the deficit impact of the IRS, inflation and deficits.
In layman’s terms, Speaker Mike is a Trump suck-up, willing to lie about numbers and tax policy, and he calls himself a conservative. What bull shit.
How tragic it is that we Americans again have a crook in the Speaker’s Chair; Republican Speakers Agnew and Hastert were prosecuted - here we go again.
Clearly, Republican Speaker Mike sucks up to Moscow and Putin and wealthy oligarchs. What’s what with Republicans?
Dr. Richardson, you have presented us with a lesson on the “Freedom of Religion” as it was meant to be. Not as MAGA Mike is using the Speakership to promote his ‘religious beliefs’.
What I fear is that he is much worse than Kevin McCarthy. At least, when it came down to the wire, McCarthy did the right thing. He figured out a way around the MAGA crowd and kept this nation open. Kept the government from shutting down.
I fear that this is the first thing in MAGA Mike’s agenda. He has been told by Trumputin, and the rest of the MAGA republicans to shut the government down. It will be done now. Along with everything else they want to do
Can we elect you, Professor Richardson as the next Speaker. I'd feel much safer with you so close to the Presidency!
We could!
No, we need her to be free.
Yes, I am afraid Hakeem Jefferies made an error there.
If I may, Notes on Useful Beauty, I would disagree with Jeffries making the error. I think the Republicans made the error. First, instead of being the old Republican Party, they are going the way of MAGA, following the lead, as well as following the lead and word of Trump. They are acting as if Trump is their president, and no one else’s word means anything. They still have several representatives on that side of the aisle that would be excellent Speakers. Mitt Romney for one, would be an excellent choice, even though he’s not going to run for office again, he’s still of the ‘old guard’ so to speak.
I’m not a Republican, but my parents were before the party started ti change back in the 70s. Then they flipped to the Democratic Party. So, I am looking at this from the other side of the aisle also. I’m sitting on the Democratic side and I have to see that Jeffries and the other Democrats saw McCarthy following the lead of the MAGA group of Representatives and knew that if anything was to get accomplished, a change had to be made. And, I truly believe that Johnson was looked at like a good choice above all others running because he was a ‘virtually unknown’ person. So, they rolled the dice.
As it turned out, Johnson looked good from the outside, but when they, as we, have had a chance to test drive that car, and check under the hood, it doesn’t look so damn good. Now, it’s back to the drawing board to figure out what to do now. This model is e we rise than the one they had. They should have kept McCarthy over this…..
I just worry about the amount of damage Johnson and his ilk will be able to do before the election. As far as the election goes, Johnson is the poster boy for Vote for 18th Century morals or Vote for 21st Democracy….
His first damage is shutting down the government. That alone will cause the economy to fluctuate a good but, which will be blamed on Biden. But, in actuality, Trump is calling the shots now fur the House of Representatives. That’s why Santis wasn’t expelled yesterday. Trump doesn’t want him home. He’s in Trump’s pocket, just like Gaetz, Greene, Boebert, and about a dozen or so more.
Heather, I have been a free subscriber for a while, and I love your work. I joined to paid today just so I could comment on our new speaker and his perverted and wrong and dangerous views on church and state. I have I suspect, a somewhat unique perspective among your community here. I feel like I know Johnson and his type well. He is not most Christians or even Baptists.
1. I am a Christian.
2. I am a life long Southern Baptist(70 years and counting), often frustrated and embarrassed, but still there(see Robert Jeffress, Franklin Graham, the Falwells, et al.)
3. I am a life long Texan(also often frustrated and embarrassed, especially in recent years(see Cruz, Abbott, Paxton, et al.).
4. Church and state issues are near and dear to my heart, and are one of the few areas where Baptists have taken the lead historically in championing that separation Johnson rejects. Johnson is so, so wrong in my view.
While I agree with Johnson on some if not most of his THEOLOGICAL views, and try to live my life “based on the Bible,” as he so “modestly” stated, some of his positions even in theology are extreme, even for Southern Baptists(see new earth creationism for one example). There is nothing in the Baptist Faith and Message(Southern Baptists non creedal “creed”) that requires or even addresses that at all. That is a radical, weird, and unnecessary belief shipped in from even more fundamentalist groups like Pentecostals, etc.
I could talk theology and Biblical teachings all day, but I really want to talk about the separation of church and state. Johnson’s position on that are totally wrong, unChristian, unAmerican and especially unBaptist. His views are diametrically opposed to historical—-and in my view absolutely correct—-positions almost all Baptists have taken. Therefore, he is driving me crazy with his actions here. Your discussion of James Madison is so good, but I want to add a footnote. Madison was greatly influenced in his views and in his advocacy for the First Amendment by John Leland, a Baptist pastor in Virginia, and other Baptists. We believe in a free church in a free state. I tell everyone that when the church becomes entangled with the state, the church will be corrupted every time! See the USA over the last 8 years in particular to prove my thesis. Christian Nationalism which Johnson appears to be in up to his eyeballs(see a lot of other recent reporting) is wrong, wrong, wrong, and NOT a Baptist idea. In fact, just the opposite is what we have always believed and followed. Freedom means freedom to believe or not believe.
Sorry for the long post. He is 100% wrong on this point, and his Christian Nationalism is dangerous for our country. I say that as a “Bible believing, pretty traditional, Baptist Christian.” Mike Johnson thinks that is what he is, but he is not. For one thing he would not have tried to overthrow the government based on a lie. He is a radical of the highest order.
Wow, an excellent comment thank you for joining.
Thank you, Rick.
Since Mike Johnson was elected Speaker, I have been trying to raise the alarm about Johnson and the influence he has had from Dominionist Christians. I have posted a couple comments here today, with links to what I think are important articles, and have commented in previous days about Dominionism and the threat it poses to liberal democracy (and to Christianity). Dominionism, if you're not familiar, goes much, much deeper than Christian nationalism. See the article I posted in a previous comment.
I am not Baptist, but I have friends who are, and they have happily schooled me on historical Baptist teachings about church and state. I have learned a lot and have become grateful for the Baptist witness on these matters, from Roger Williams to Jimmy Carter. How far so many Baptists, as well as other Christians, have strayed from these principles!
Yes, yes, yes!!!!
Welcome aboard! I look forward to more of your insights.
I wrote a long reply then deleted it. Too much backstory about how the Baptist Church basically stole my daughter from my family. She joined a VERY legalistic church.
I hope that there are more people like you, because I truly fear for the way she is rearing my grandchildren.
And Rick, btw--I used to work with many Muslim women, who were kind enough to answer my honest questions about their faith. I would talk about my daughter's church, and one of the once commented that "almost sounds like Sharia law". This, from a devote Muslim!!
Rick, welcome in! I, too, was a looky-Lou for a time, then joined in (being retired, funds are limited) to be able to dialog with the folks here. I appreciate the variety of views here and the lively dialog that requires that we THINK critically and appreciate diverse opinions. There are some very knowledgeable and thoughtful folks who post here & I learn a lot from them.
Thank you. Dr. Richardson has a unique and engaging style and a historian’s wisdom and perspective. I also agree, the commenters are a diverse and wonderful group, with thoughtful and wide ranging opinions.