I support the protestors right to make their voices heard; I just wish I didn't believe they were being manipulated to undermine Biden. What's happening in Gaza is definitely a humanitarian crisis. But, the answer is not just to abandon Israel. Getting aid to Gaza and not letting Bibi have free reign are the best that the American Presid…
I support the protestors right to make their voices heard; I just wish I didn't believe they were being manipulated to undermine Biden. What's happening in Gaza is definitely a humanitarian crisis. But, the answer is not just to abandon Israel. Getting aid to Gaza and not letting Bibi have free reign are the best that the American President can hope to accomplish.
The big issue is, of course, November; by all means get their message out there, but don't forget that things can get worse. It really doesn't matter if someone hates Biden on a single issue; there is far more at stake. But, if you just can't get past Gaza, remember this: Trump fully supports Bibi and things will get far worse for the people you say you care about.
It is not a humanitarian crisis. It is genocide, and Biden gladly supplies the weapons used. No one is manipulating the students and others. It is Biden who is prepared to lose Michigan, a large chuck of the youth and black vote and hand the nation to Trump for Likud Israel's sake.
Don't harass us and tell use we must vote blue no matter who. Harass Biden and the Democratic leadership. Tell them in no uncertain terms they are on a path to destroy themselves and the nation and must change course.
Biden's hands are tired. He can't just ignore decades of U.S. policy and abandon an ally. Saying he's doing it gladly is just hyperbole. Few, if any, Presidents could do better; many would do worse.
If you think I'm harassing you, you're missing the point. I never said you had to vote blue. All I would ask is that you consider the impact of your vote or lack thereof. If you feel that Trump would handle Israel better, then by all means vote accordingly.
How are Biden's hands tied? He is deliberately ignoring standing US law that should halt all aid to Israel. 22 USC 2034. He is deliberately breaking US law to support Israel.
I have considered the consequences of Trump winning. I may vote for the mother fucker Biden in November but I want him to sweat blood and shit nails from now until then unless he reverses course. He completely cancels every good thing he's done by these acts, so spare me the repetition of what good Biden has done. I'm aware of it.
Who do you think is manipulating these students? Have you spoken with them, visited their encampments, read their statements? Can you provide any links to evidence of their manipulation?
I think that as the arrest records filter out it will become more clear. One account I read of the Columbia arrests was that quite a few were simply agitator/anarchists determined to push their social media standing. They’d been on LE radar for some time. More will be revealed I’m guessing in the coming week.
I'm just going with a gut feeling knowing how much foreign interference there was in the last election. I make no pretense that my suspicions have any weight to them beyond that. I'd be more than happy to listen to any inside information that you are willing to share.
Well Kevin I'm not sure what you might accept as information (or which foreign government you might suspect of deluding the students) but I'll try! I'm familiar with college students and grad students as I've taught them in eight institutions over 45 years in the profession, plus been a campus visitor in many more (here and abroad), sometimes in periods of high stress like this one. I've twice visited the MIT encampment, and have contacts in the Columbia and Barnard ones (I used to teach at Columbia). I was close to many students in the Brandeis Jewish Voice for Peace chapter before it was forced to close, and attended a wonderful (and delicious) seder they organized with Palestinian students on campus. I know the level of information common among campus activists in this riskiest/touchiest of movements--no one would join it for fun, though there was nice Arab dancing at the MIT encampment today, and collective singing, in Hebrew, of the verse from Isaiah 2: 4, set to music by many great composers: "Nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more."
Most of the student leaders have studied the situation, its history, settler colonialism generally. Some are from Israel, some from Gaza, many are American Jews, some participants are from the Caribbean, Africa, India, former Russian "satellite" states--parts of the world that have been through crises of occupation, settler colonialism and independence struggles more recently than the US--and tend to be interested in and informed about it naturally. And at MIT and other schools where some research is funded by the Israeli military, activist students know quite a bit about university finances and endowment holdings. By and large a university is a place for intellectual ferment, discussion, debate, research: knowledge is prioritized, mouthing off in ignorance stigmatized. If you visit an encampment--where people welcome discussion of topics relevant to this bad situation--you'll find yourself in conversation with thoughtful people, sophisticated about political organizing. Why would America's brightest young people be easy to manipulate? Professors are there too. Why would people whose business is finding out and knowing, trained as skeptics, daily taught and/or teaching that unsubstantiated claims are worthless, be easy to manipulate? I think the ignorance and naivete of university students and their faculty supporters needs to be proven rather than taken for granted.
Many of these same students have been active in registering voters and getting the vote in swing states for the Democrats over the last 5 national elections. I'm sorry that President Biden chose to denigrate them in his remarks yesterday.
Thank you for sharing your perspective. I understand your concerns and why you would want to stand up for the students. I may not have your years in academia, but I am a former grad student. I do respect the students and, like I said, believe they should make their voices heard.
Unfortunately, given the black and white presentation of a complex issue and the hatred for Biden who is between a rock and hard place, I do think it's only fair to raise the issue of outside manipulation. But that's it; I have no intention of pursuing the point. More importantly, I'm not going to use my suspicions to question the sincerity of the protestors or undermine the validity of the protests.
Kevin I talked too much! I could more simply have said that few of the students involved have a black and white notion of this agonizingly complex mess. They do have, as do I, a sense that genocide or even ethnocide is under way (some generals and officials have been explicit), however complex the causes, which is no better for Israelis in the long run than for Palestinians. And that our government is enabling and funding that, and research in many of our universities supporting that.
Who is funding these protests? Where did all of the tents come from overnight? All the same as though they were all ordered at the same time. This isn’t rocket science!
I have brought them food and supplies. if they ask for tents I would buy them tents. I would bring them pallets and zip ties to build the barricades. because they are right. it's time to start calling them encampments by the way. we need to start calling them settlements.
You would but they have tons of new tents that all came overnight. Did you see any solicitations for funds for that? I didn’t. And they aren’t right because they are supporting Hamas and Iran. I support Israel and the Palestinians. But Hamas has no intention of achieving peace. They don’t care about the Palestinians. If you want proof ask me…but your mind has to be open.
?? My tent cost $89, and you can get them for less--if you need one, most kids have one. The kids are making their own food (and serving it to visitors) where they have electricity, as they often do in their dorms, and others drop off supplies in solidarity. They make their signs and posters on pieces of cardboard boxes, with magic markers. So, not an expensive Conspiracy.
I also sense an invisible hand of foreign intelligence at work in these demonstrations as well as the apparent Republican strategy to politicize them. Biden's response has been spot-on perfect. Russia and Iran are likely pleased by the chaos they have generated first by encouraging Hamas to sacrifice the Palistinian residents of Gaza with a massacre of innocent Israelis, and now with the protests ignoring the complexity of the situation and the Republicans attacking specifically the women who lead these major universities.
I support the protestors right to make their voices heard; I just wish I didn't believe they were being manipulated to undermine Biden. What's happening in Gaza is definitely a humanitarian crisis. But, the answer is not just to abandon Israel. Getting aid to Gaza and not letting Bibi have free reign are the best that the American President can hope to accomplish.
The big issue is, of course, November; by all means get their message out there, but don't forget that things can get worse. It really doesn't matter if someone hates Biden on a single issue; there is far more at stake. But, if you just can't get past Gaza, remember this: Trump fully supports Bibi and things will get far worse for the people you say you care about.
It is not a humanitarian crisis. It is genocide, and Biden gladly supplies the weapons used. No one is manipulating the students and others. It is Biden who is prepared to lose Michigan, a large chuck of the youth and black vote and hand the nation to Trump for Likud Israel's sake.
Don't harass us and tell use we must vote blue no matter who. Harass Biden and the Democratic leadership. Tell them in no uncertain terms they are on a path to destroy themselves and the nation and must change course.
Biden's hands are tired. He can't just ignore decades of U.S. policy and abandon an ally. Saying he's doing it gladly is just hyperbole. Few, if any, Presidents could do better; many would do worse.
If you think I'm harassing you, you're missing the point. I never said you had to vote blue. All I would ask is that you consider the impact of your vote or lack thereof. If you feel that Trump would handle Israel better, then by all means vote accordingly.
How are Biden's hands tied? He is deliberately ignoring standing US law that should halt all aid to Israel. 22 USC 2034. He is deliberately breaking US law to support Israel.
I have considered the consequences of Trump winning. I may vote for the mother fucker Biden in November but I want him to sweat blood and shit nails from now until then unless he reverses course. He completely cancels every good thing he's done by these acts, so spare me the repetition of what good Biden has done. I'm aware of it.
Who do you think is manipulating these students? Have you spoken with them, visited their encampments, read their statements? Can you provide any links to evidence of their manipulation?
I think that as the arrest records filter out it will become more clear. One account I read of the Columbia arrests was that quite a few were simply agitator/anarchists determined to push their social media standing. They’d been on LE radar for some time. More will be revealed I’m guessing in the coming week.
Deja vu of the Portland Black Lives Matter riot. It was later found that outsiders were causing much of the vandalism.
This was also true in Richmond, Va.
Sure hope so (that more will be revealed in the coming week).
I'm just going with a gut feeling knowing how much foreign interference there was in the last election. I make no pretense that my suspicions have any weight to them beyond that. I'd be more than happy to listen to any inside information that you are willing to share.
Well Kevin I'm not sure what you might accept as information (or which foreign government you might suspect of deluding the students) but I'll try! I'm familiar with college students and grad students as I've taught them in eight institutions over 45 years in the profession, plus been a campus visitor in many more (here and abroad), sometimes in periods of high stress like this one. I've twice visited the MIT encampment, and have contacts in the Columbia and Barnard ones (I used to teach at Columbia). I was close to many students in the Brandeis Jewish Voice for Peace chapter before it was forced to close, and attended a wonderful (and delicious) seder they organized with Palestinian students on campus. I know the level of information common among campus activists in this riskiest/touchiest of movements--no one would join it for fun, though there was nice Arab dancing at the MIT encampment today, and collective singing, in Hebrew, of the verse from Isaiah 2: 4, set to music by many great composers: "Nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more."
Most of the student leaders have studied the situation, its history, settler colonialism generally. Some are from Israel, some from Gaza, many are American Jews, some participants are from the Caribbean, Africa, India, former Russian "satellite" states--parts of the world that have been through crises of occupation, settler colonialism and independence struggles more recently than the US--and tend to be interested in and informed about it naturally. And at MIT and other schools where some research is funded by the Israeli military, activist students know quite a bit about university finances and endowment holdings. By and large a university is a place for intellectual ferment, discussion, debate, research: knowledge is prioritized, mouthing off in ignorance stigmatized. If you visit an encampment--where people welcome discussion of topics relevant to this bad situation--you'll find yourself in conversation with thoughtful people, sophisticated about political organizing. Why would America's brightest young people be easy to manipulate? Professors are there too. Why would people whose business is finding out and knowing, trained as skeptics, daily taught and/or teaching that unsubstantiated claims are worthless, be easy to manipulate? I think the ignorance and naivete of university students and their faculty supporters needs to be proven rather than taken for granted.
Many of these same students have been active in registering voters and getting the vote in swing states for the Democrats over the last 5 national elections. I'm sorry that President Biden chose to denigrate them in his remarks yesterday.
Thank you for sharing your perspective. I understand your concerns and why you would want to stand up for the students. I may not have your years in academia, but I am a former grad student. I do respect the students and, like I said, believe they should make their voices heard.
Unfortunately, given the black and white presentation of a complex issue and the hatred for Biden who is between a rock and hard place, I do think it's only fair to raise the issue of outside manipulation. But that's it; I have no intention of pursuing the point. More importantly, I'm not going to use my suspicions to question the sincerity of the protestors or undermine the validity of the protests.
Kevin I talked too much! I could more simply have said that few of the students involved have a black and white notion of this agonizingly complex mess. They do have, as do I, a sense that genocide or even ethnocide is under way (some generals and officials have been explicit), however complex the causes, which is no better for Israelis in the long run than for Palestinians. And that our government is enabling and funding that, and research in many of our universities supporting that.
Who is funding these protests? Where did all of the tents come from overnight? All the same as though they were all ordered at the same time. This isn’t rocket science!
I have brought them food and supplies. if they ask for tents I would buy them tents. I would bring them pallets and zip ties to build the barricades. because they are right. it's time to start calling them encampments by the way. we need to start calling them settlements.
You would but they have tons of new tents that all came overnight. Did you see any solicitations for funds for that? I didn’t. And they aren’t right because they are supporting Hamas and Iran. I support Israel and the Palestinians. But Hamas has no intention of achieving peace. They don’t care about the Palestinians. If you want proof ask me…but your mind has to be open.
When I watched the tv footage of encampments being cleared away I thought, wow, tents aren’t that cheap. Where did they all come from?
?? My tent cost $89, and you can get them for less--if you need one, most kids have one. The kids are making their own food (and serving it to visitors) where they have electricity, as they often do in their dorms, and others drop off supplies in solidarity. They make their signs and posters on pieces of cardboard boxes, with magic markers. So, not an expensive Conspiracy.
Kids camp. Everyone has tents in my experience.
I also sense an invisible hand of foreign intelligence at work in these demonstrations as well as the apparent Republican strategy to politicize them. Biden's response has been spot-on perfect. Russia and Iran are likely pleased by the chaos they have generated first by encouraging Hamas to sacrifice the Palistinian residents of Gaza with a massacre of innocent Israelis, and now with the protests ignoring the complexity of the situation and the Republicans attacking specifically the women who lead these major universities.
Trump was going to move the American Embassy from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem in support of Bibi.
He did. That was a ill-advised and provocative move.