Many Canadians view America as a country brimming with self-confidence that would easily swell to arrogance at propitious moments (eg the Dream Team of NBA stars at the Olympics in Atlanta), expressed in the insufferable USA, USA, USA chants.
There was a periodically renewed debate within our country as to whether we were too self-effacing and would do well to adopt at least some of the attitude Americans had to their country.
We did adopt a more “take no prisoners” style in our government-initiated “Own the Podium” movement which aimed to support (and harden) our Olympic hopefuls.
But, by and large, we felt it futile to adopt the brash American attitude. It seemed to suit you - it wouldn’t us.
Then came 9/11.
When the dust settled, so to speak, we saw a new America. It was (or so it seemed to us, much less confident. The swagger was gone. There was a seeming national introspection - a moment in which Americans felt their bubble had been burst, their invulnerability pierced.
We saw Americans respond by going to war in two countries, that is true. But America seemed subdued and chastened, less sure of its ability to bestride the world like some unthinking Colossus.
Many of us would date American loss of confidence to 2001, not 2017 as has been suggested, maybe verified by studies.
The 21st century has been and continues to be a time of deep reckoning and hard questions for America about itself. Out of that has come a fierce struggle for the soul of the country - a quixotic quest, it seems to me. There are too many America’s for one soul to harbour.
I appreciate your thoughtful analysis. From what I’ve seen, American confidence (not quite the same thing as pride) on the international stage has ebbed and flowed over the past 60 years. Viet Nam seriously dented America’s confidence, followed by the double whammy of the OPEC oil embargoes. Confidence sprang back under Reagan, re-enforced by the falling of the Berlin Wall and the collapse of the Soviet Union. It remained strong through the Clinton years, and actually rose after 2001, as America felt an outpouring of support from around the world. If anything, after 2001, America was overconfident. Dubyah’s arrogant neocons proclaimed (as they set out to invade Iraq and Afghanistan), “we don’t need to study history, we make history”. That didn’t turn out so well. Confidence (and pride) were strong during the Obama years. Then, it fell considerably during Trump’s presidency, for (I think) two reasons. One is that many of us were ashamed that such an unfit man could become president. Trump was an embarrassment to us. The other is that Trump’s rhetoric painted the world with fear - proposing that we cower behind walls and withdraw from the world, instead of continuing to lead by action and example. Trump’s vision, what little there was of it, was small and bitter. Nothing to instill confidence or pride.
I love this comment. I suppose that there could be reliable tracking by polls which illustrate your thesis. At an intellectual level, it makes tremendous sense to me.
I would put in two further comments to ponder.
The first is that 9/11 was an incredibly successful attack on American soil, considerably more impactful than the difficult periods - Vietnam, the OPEC crises, the Trump era - that you explained.
9/11 was a terrorism event that was shock and awe in a way the world had never seen (in terrorism). It came as a complete surprise - to ordinary Americans. It was televised live in unsparing detail - who can unsee people jumping out of skyscrapers? And the enemy was to most people, relatively unknown for some time.
If they could pull off that, why could they not blow up 10 Walmarts at exactly the same moment a month or two later. The attackers showed power and daring. Who knew what they were capable of?
Then followed the futility of two wars, the creation of the Dept. of Homeland Security, the daily humiliations at airports when we went to travel again.
Du ta was arrogant but Americans soon learned how stupid his response was - and how all sympathy was squandered in pursuing bin Laden and al Qaeda. On a macro scale it just kept worse and worse.
The second point I’d make is this. In Vietnam Americans learned slowly and painfully that they could lose a war. That was a new thing. And it certainly must have drained away confidence.
But the nation was far, far stronger then than it was in 2001. The pillars of any society, rock solid community organizations were virtually fully intact. People went to mainstream churches in high numbers. Schools were trusted. The government was seen as a force for good, although less so as Vietnam dragged on. Family units were stronger. The service club ethos was a binding force (Kiwanis, Lions Club etc). The Boy Scout organization was at the height of its influence. The union movement was at its apex. And so on.
For many reasons middle class Americans believed in the concept of America. On the other hand 9/11 came at a time when America seemed to be crumbling internally.
Despite your very persuasive points, I still cling to my belief that the 21st century has been one bad year after another for Americans. I do not think confidence suddenly eroded in 2017.
Report on a 2016 poll - a time at which 81% of Americans say they are extremely/very proud to be American.
The poll at the link above shows that 74% of Americans believe the country to be on the wrong track. 44% say it has been so for a long time - dating back to the Fifties.
Is this poll dispositive? I make no claims so. But the book I have been researching and writing for two years now indicates time and time again this waning of confidence in America over the past 60 years.
You wrote such a lovely piece. And then answered me with a one-sentence 'my poll is the be-all and end-all comment'. Disappointing.
My original post was exploring the point McConnell made, that "pride in America has fallen significantly". I wondered where that came from - was there data or did he just make it up. I found that indeed, there are polls measuring "American pride" with data going back 20 years or more. And that the measure of people who are proud or very proud has been remarkably steady, until Trump, at which point it fell. You expanded the discussion with some interesting observations, which are fun to read and think about, but which had little to do with my original point or the data from polls measuring American pride.
I think your original point about their being a difference between pride and confidence is the one overlooked.
You analyzed well why pride plummeted suddenly over Trump.
Confidence is different as you mentioned. American confidence in itself has dropped greatly since the Fifties, although as you pointed out it was revived nicely by Reagan.
But 9/11 was devastating. Bush’s immediate reaction notwithstanding and the outpouring of genuine sympathy and love from much of the world, Americans came to realize in short order how vulnerable they were, and in years to come how dangerous and unfriendly the world was. Americans want to be liked and this is always hard to achieve when you seek to be feared as well. The legacy of Cheney, Wolfowitz and their plan for a 21st century dominated by America is grim. And Trump was the piece de resistance. What a fool he was.
In any case thanks for the exchange of ideas. I think we were crossways between pride and confidence.
You are right. What a drop! Wouldn't you like to see that broken down, for instance, Republicans, Democrats, Independents, educational levels, race, class, ethnology, etc.?
The decline in pride numbers started in 2017. By the time the pandemicbegan it had dropped 20 points.
Many Canadians view America as a country brimming with self-confidence that would easily swell to arrogance at propitious moments (eg the Dream Team of NBA stars at the Olympics in Atlanta), expressed in the insufferable USA, USA, USA chants.
There was a periodically renewed debate within our country as to whether we were too self-effacing and would do well to adopt at least some of the attitude Americans had to their country.
We did adopt a more “take no prisoners” style in our government-initiated “Own the Podium” movement which aimed to support (and harden) our Olympic hopefuls.
And there was an *enormously* successful beer commercial - I’m a Canadian (https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=WMxGVfk09lU) which brilliantly captured our aspirations.
But, by and large, we felt it futile to adopt the brash American attitude. It seemed to suit you - it wouldn’t us.
Then came 9/11.
When the dust settled, so to speak, we saw a new America. It was (or so it seemed to us, much less confident. The swagger was gone. There was a seeming national introspection - a moment in which Americans felt their bubble had been burst, their invulnerability pierced.
We saw Americans respond by going to war in two countries, that is true. But America seemed subdued and chastened, less sure of its ability to bestride the world like some unthinking Colossus.
Many of us would date American loss of confidence to 2001, not 2017 as has been suggested, maybe verified by studies.
The 21st century has been and continues to be a time of deep reckoning and hard questions for America about itself. Out of that has come a fierce struggle for the soul of the country - a quixotic quest, it seems to me. There are too many America’s for one soul to harbour.
I appreciate your thoughtful analysis. From what I’ve seen, American confidence (not quite the same thing as pride) on the international stage has ebbed and flowed over the past 60 years. Viet Nam seriously dented America’s confidence, followed by the double whammy of the OPEC oil embargoes. Confidence sprang back under Reagan, re-enforced by the falling of the Berlin Wall and the collapse of the Soviet Union. It remained strong through the Clinton years, and actually rose after 2001, as America felt an outpouring of support from around the world. If anything, after 2001, America was overconfident. Dubyah’s arrogant neocons proclaimed (as they set out to invade Iraq and Afghanistan), “we don’t need to study history, we make history”. That didn’t turn out so well. Confidence (and pride) were strong during the Obama years. Then, it fell considerably during Trump’s presidency, for (I think) two reasons. One is that many of us were ashamed that such an unfit man could become president. Trump was an embarrassment to us. The other is that Trump’s rhetoric painted the world with fear - proposing that we cower behind walls and withdraw from the world, instead of continuing to lead by action and example. Trump’s vision, what little there was of it, was small and bitter. Nothing to instill confidence or pride.
I love this comment. I suppose that there could be reliable tracking by polls which illustrate your thesis. At an intellectual level, it makes tremendous sense to me.
I would put in two further comments to ponder.
The first is that 9/11 was an incredibly successful attack on American soil, considerably more impactful than the difficult periods - Vietnam, the OPEC crises, the Trump era - that you explained.
9/11 was a terrorism event that was shock and awe in a way the world had never seen (in terrorism). It came as a complete surprise - to ordinary Americans. It was televised live in unsparing detail - who can unsee people jumping out of skyscrapers? And the enemy was to most people, relatively unknown for some time.
If they could pull off that, why could they not blow up 10 Walmarts at exactly the same moment a month or two later. The attackers showed power and daring. Who knew what they were capable of?
Then followed the futility of two wars, the creation of the Dept. of Homeland Security, the daily humiliations at airports when we went to travel again.
Du ta was arrogant but Americans soon learned how stupid his response was - and how all sympathy was squandered in pursuing bin Laden and al Qaeda. On a macro scale it just kept worse and worse.
The second point I’d make is this. In Vietnam Americans learned slowly and painfully that they could lose a war. That was a new thing. And it certainly must have drained away confidence.
But the nation was far, far stronger then than it was in 2001. The pillars of any society, rock solid community organizations were virtually fully intact. People went to mainstream churches in high numbers. Schools were trusted. The government was seen as a force for good, although less so as Vietnam dragged on. Family units were stronger. The service club ethos was a binding force (Kiwanis, Lions Club etc). The Boy Scout organization was at the height of its influence. The union movement was at its apex. And so on.
For many reasons middle class Americans believed in the concept of America. On the other hand 9/11 came at a time when America seemed to be crumbling internally.
Despite your very persuasive points, I still cling to my belief that the 21st century has been one bad year after another for Americans. I do not think confidence suddenly eroded in 2017.
Okay, don’t believe it. Your feelings outweigh the data.
Are you really satisfied with such a flip answer?
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/americans-1950s-poll_n_580fcf0be4b08582f88c9575
Report on a 2016 poll - a time at which 81% of Americans say they are extremely/very proud to be American.
The poll at the link above shows that 74% of Americans believe the country to be on the wrong track. 44% say it has been so for a long time - dating back to the Fifties.
Is this poll dispositive? I make no claims so. But the book I have been researching and writing for two years now indicates time and time again this waning of confidence in America over the past 60 years.
You wrote such a lovely piece. And then answered me with a one-sentence 'my poll is the be-all and end-all comment'. Disappointing.
My original post was exploring the point McConnell made, that "pride in America has fallen significantly". I wondered where that came from - was there data or did he just make it up. I found that indeed, there are polls measuring "American pride" with data going back 20 years or more. And that the measure of people who are proud or very proud has been remarkably steady, until Trump, at which point it fell. You expanded the discussion with some interesting observations, which are fun to read and think about, but which had little to do with my original point or the data from polls measuring American pride.
Fair enough.
I think your original point about their being a difference between pride and confidence is the one overlooked.
You analyzed well why pride plummeted suddenly over Trump.
Confidence is different as you mentioned. American confidence in itself has dropped greatly since the Fifties, although as you pointed out it was revived nicely by Reagan.
But 9/11 was devastating. Bush’s immediate reaction notwithstanding and the outpouring of genuine sympathy and love from much of the world, Americans came to realize in short order how vulnerable they were, and in years to come how dangerous and unfriendly the world was. Americans want to be liked and this is always hard to achieve when you seek to be feared as well. The legacy of Cheney, Wolfowitz and their plan for a 21st century dominated by America is grim. And Trump was the piece de resistance. What a fool he was.
In any case thanks for the exchange of ideas. I think we were crossways between pride and confidence.
You are right. What a drop! Wouldn't you like to see that broken down, for instance, Republicans, Democrats, Independents, educational levels, race, class, ethnology, etc.?