When will women start writing laws that restrict a man’s right to bodily autonomy? How about insisting every male has a vasectomy at age 18, fewer unwanted pregnancies and if that man wants children and can prove he can afford to care for them until they reach 18 he can have that vasectomy reversed, at his own expense. Everybody is ignoring the fact that none of these pregnancies happen without male involvement, yet men have no consequences and are given this kind of power and control over women?? Beyond infuriating.
When she was a senator, Kamala Harris asked Brett Kavanaugh what laws restricted men's rights to bodily autonomy. He hemmed and hawed until he finally said none.
“Take a gander at this Project 2025 gem on male condoms.”
Eliminate men’s preventive services from the women’s preventive services mandate. In December 2021, HRSA updated its women’s preventive services guidelines to include male condoms after claiming for years that it had no authority to do so because Congress explicitly limited the mandate to “women’s” preventive care and screenings. HRSA should not incorporate exclusively male contraceptive methods into guidelines that specify they encompass only women’s services.
Project 2025, page 485
“This could indicate a tactical intention to restrict access to condoms. It could also signal a willingness to separate a man’s contraceptive tool from options for women. Given my experience with Christian Nationalism, I’m more inclined to believe the former. Because again, hardline Christian Nationalists believe nothing man-made should prohibit the joining of sperm and egg.”
The media should be presenting Project 2025 piece by piece and explaining what the impact would be. This is the blueprint for if Trump wins - or the next time any Republican wins.
Actually we found it by accident....this is a Republican thing! They only want us to be aware of what they need to get the vote. Those dirty crooks!!!!! PS. I learned about it in these comments....and found it... but, it wasn't available to me until I added the www.
I’d love to know how many of them have been faithful to their wives. How many are on 2nd and 3rd trophy wife status. How deep a dive would that take? Of course, Pence and Johnson wouldn’t be included in search.
My comment about the rhythm method goes back almost 40 years when my best friend, a practicing Catholic, told me she was pregnant for the 4th time in 4 years ( her second pregnancy was twins). Her husband had a vasectomy right after that. They’ve been married 43 years and have 9 grandchildren.
I suspect a lot men would not have a vasectomy as they would think it would harm their masculinity. The saying is that REAL men can wear pink AND still be masculine.
The main theme in Project 2025, hidden in the overall plan, relates to demographics and white supremacy. The demographic problm is that white folks are not replacing themselves at a sustainable rate. From a productivity standpoint, immigrants can easily make up for that; but that presents a clear political danger to those focused on race-based power -- they will not be abe to impose their will on the country. So they aim to limit imigration ("...you will not replace us!") by scapegoating immigrants and establishing immigrant detention camps, the latest version of concentration camps. At the same time, they need to increase the production of white chidren, and the abortion bans are one way to accomplish that. A more effective approach is to ban contraception. Incorporating religion into the scheme helps establish a supposed moral basis for defining right and wrong, and from there limiting the freedom of women and families to regulate family size. In this view, Trump and MAGA are only means to an end, since they are willing to exercise the cruelty needed to bring these about quickly.
people don't look forward and are only concerned with instant gratification. No abortion. Swell. but they want to cut social services which would help single parents, and welfare programs for the thousands of 18 year olds who are thrown out of the foster care system. Thousands of children waiting to be adopted, and now they want to add more children to the list.
So, they could outlaw vasectomies to equalize the intrusions on male and female reproductive choice. They moght even think such a move would make everyone happy!
And I believe most men could care less if they are a father or not. They mostly like that orgasm! Not the child....that is an accident. The child to some becomes a burden unless they choose to just walk away and give the mother the full responsibility.
I heard on NPR this morning that pregnant women in Missouri are not allowed (by law) to get a divorce (while pregnant). This allows husbands to prevent their wives from divorcing them as long as they are pregnant. Again, controlling and limiting women by keeping them pregnant.
I like Kamala. She needs "women" to get out onto the streets in numbers which stop traffic. Women comprise half of our population (plus or minus), they are not forced to wear head-scarfs to indicate their submission to some diety or whatever, let alone submission to the other half of the population. So, tell me.., women can conceal-carry just like men..., what IS the problem girls? You don't want to get pregnant..? Don't F around. And, "guys".., if the DNA matches, you're on-the-hook! Next.
The admonition to not f*ck around unless you want to get pregnant ignores some critical facts. The only forms of birth control that are 100% effective 100% of the time are total abstinence, tubal ligation, or same sex acts. Even vasectomy doesn't qualify. Leaving aside the reality that human beings have the right to have and enjoy sex (much of which takes place in a committed relationship) and we see that the admonition to only have sex if you want to get pregnant is quite unhelpful. As for solving anything with a gun, well that's like saying more rain is the solution for floods.
MisTBlu, thank you for your most kind treatment of my remark(s). In a nutshell it was a way of expressing my frustration that women (in general) don't team up and refute the "male" crap that they are blanketed with. In this country the means and laws exist to do so. And, in our brief history, "women" have taken 'the bull(shit)' , meaning "men", by the horn and showed them the door. That's kind of what I implied by 'concealed-carry'. Thank you again for your comment. The last thing I want to see is you resorting to wearing a scarf.
I have asked this same question over and over but to no avail. In the United States I guess women get pregnant through divine intervention because there is NEVER any mention of putting men in jail when they impregnate a women, or any mention ever that men had a part in a pregnancy, wanted or unwanted. Why aren’t women speaking up more? I told my oldest granddaughter years ago, before Cheetolinni, that they would eventually come for contraceptives. It’s in their plan now. When that same granddaughter got married last year, she had three bridesmaids, all young twenty something’s …all Trump supporters. Insane!! If women don’t rally and fight back, they will continue to take our rights away. But I’m afraid too many live with their heads in the sand and won’t wake up until it’s too late!!
Exactly -- what if a law was passed requiring that all males at birth were given DNA tests so that their paternity could be easily determined and they would be on the hook for half the $$ and half childcare if the woman wanted it. I hate the idea of one awful law that has to be combatted by another awful law -- but since most of the legislators passing these laws are men they should have some (fore)skin in the game.
Sharon, Systematic and Laurie, it seems entirely plausible to me that some day women will wield enough political power to align themselves with truly equal rights (and responsibilities) leading to passage of an amendment that requires the DNA testing of every baby born to single mothers (whether conceived consensually or by rape) with subsequent enforcement of paternity responsibilities (or jail) if and when DNA matches are discovered in the data bases already available and which grow daily. THAT would begin to balance the Kamala Harris equation if offered as a bargaining chip in exchange for removing these multiple laws aimed only at women's reproductive rights. We have reached a stage where courts recognize the validity and reliability of DNA testing as much if not more than eye-witness testimony.
Well following God's slaying of Onan for 'spilling his seed' the Catholic Church made coitus interruptus and by extension all contraception a sin.
Currently, the right to contraception is protected by two Supreme Court decisions, Griswold v. Connecticut (1965) and Eisenstadt v. Baird (1972). In Griswold, the Court recognized that the constitutional right to privacy encompasses the right of married people to obtain contraceptives. Eisenstadt extends protections to unmarried couples.
Opus Dei acolyte and court capture operative Leonard Leo's merry band of Catholic extremists composing the Supreme Court majority haven't gotten around to overturning that, yet. Although Scalia spoke of it explicitly and his sock puppets Alito and Thomas have dissembled and darkly hinted at what else Dobbs opens the door to overturning.
According to the Gospel of St. Scalia, the right to handheld rocket launchers could be protected but not condoms.
From an interview 2012 Fox interview with Chris Wallace:
"What about "handheld rocket launchers that can bring down airplanes"? Scalia said it's unclear whether that's protected, and "it will have to be decided." I'll look forward to it.
But of particular interest to me was Scalia's opposition to privacy rights. Unprompted, the justice noted his opposition to reproductive rights, and it led to this exchange:
WALLACE: What about the right to privacy that the court found in known 1965?
SCALIA: There is no right to privacy. No generalized right to privacy.
WALLACE: Well, in the Griswold case, the court said there was.
SCALIA: Indeed it did, and that was -- that was wrong.
Scalia was one of those evil ideologues who was very intelligent. Alito and Thomas can't hold a candle to him intellectually, but they are evil enough.
Head banging on wall - this thread is scapula sharp today. I’m also reviewing memories of 38 years ago today when our daughter was born. The t terror and anticipation of having
Notice the 3 dots bottom right of your comment. Touch that and see if Edit is an option. It may expire after a while, but you should have at least 5 minutes.
Thank you, I did not know there was a timed edit window. I probably used my five minutes trying to get back to my post🙄. Inexplicably, the post disappeared before I finished and posted itself.
Just thinking of some I know, and have known. Also TV has mobs of invigorated young people with venom pointed at whoever has a dab of power. Not the situation everywhere, but I am surprised by the lethargy of some and the energy of others. Sorry "young," it's not just you.
But our artists know them better. That's why I always beg for citations of those -- call them artists -- who've taken the time and effort to provide scenarios better than have most of us.
Enough states have now ratified the Amendment, but after the ratification deadline. Pelosi introduced legislation to remove the deadline, but Democrats didn’t have the Senate.
Intelligent, strong, effective, and wickedly funny -- Nancy's been a perfect leader for the last wave of feminism.
Claims she learned her leadership skills from raising her 5 kids--that she had in 6 years. Like to see Speaker Johnson or any of the previous Speakers (all male) manage that!
Yes, Systematic Curiosity, "it was always about taking away women's freedom."
But there's a next step, which devolves to the disappearance of even the concept of freedom -- anyone's (except of course the monied corrupt).
When humanities totally disappear (not just their uses in schools today), everyone can sink to the status of serfs again. Slaves for the aristocratic classes currently called billionaires, or most of the justices on the Clarence court.
How did it even occur even briefly, the concept of women's freedom? The U.S. entertained it fitfully for a few decades. Japan did so, for a few centuries (1,000 years ago, the Heian era). Soon, even its memory will have become as obsolete as our neutered elites have made humanities in schools today.
May I suggest the thought-experiment novel “The Power” by Naomi Aldermann….an interesting read—was on Obama’s 2017 (I think that was the year) recommended books list.
I told my boyfriend that is a supporter of tfg (and a die hard Fox News watcher and Republican) that tfg would take away a womans rights to abortion and he acted like I had two (2) heads! He never heard of that and it would not happen..... now we can't discuss politics! We talk about the weather...mainly he calls me everyday to make sure I didn't die over night. LOL That was after I heard about someone that died and know one knew it for at least a week.
I like to think they’d vote in their own interests. Though usually a last resort, keeping politicians away from a woman’s own choices is a good idea. And good for the men they might date. Right?
Well, many of us are cognizant of the man's involvement. Things would be easier were the Equal Rights Amendment given a window to complete ratification.
Ned, I’ve been waiting my whole life (at least becoming really aware of it in the ‘60’s) for the ERA to be ratified….clock is ticking for me to experience this in the here ‘n now!
I have been on board throughout my political 'neurotissey' of fluctuating between the two Parties. Women are not yet completely part of the body politic. If they were, violations of the fourth and ninth amendments would not be so casual.
The voters who constitute the majority who have rebuffed the anti-abortion bans by their votes that reversed these bans consist of both men and women. I recommend encouraging that voting majority with giving credit where credit is due as a whole. They do not want political hacks practicing medicine without a license either. How they voted is what made the difference, not their gender assigned at birth.
Gwen, I have been saying this for years--including on this platform. What I find interesting is that suddenly (starting in late February but more significantly in the last few weeks) the national news feeds are starting to talk about the fact that in the 1970s (yes: the 1970s--that's significant) the MO legislature passed a law making it very difficult for a pregnant woman to get divorced, even from an abusive husband. And why? because women are finally pushing back HARD and because the MO leg is dominated by christofascists who want to control all aspects of women's bodies (including refusing to get rid of sales tax on women's menstrual cycle products), they are beginning to realize that the law might, ahem, be working against them. Because all the penises in the MO leg and governor's office are also trying to prevent Missourians from voting on a constitutional amendment guaranteeing women's right to bodily autonomy--BECAUSE THEY KNOW THAT IT WILL PASS. For anyone who questions the idea that these men and their non-cis, non-male enablers are malevolent actors who need to be removed from office, just take a look at what they think of women: as vessels for their sperm and incubators, not as humans. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fUspLVStPbk
Linda, I didn't recall the Monty Python sketch, but I do remember one on Rowan and Martin's Laugh In, where there were two couples depicted; one Catholic with children who appeared to be a bout 9-12 months apart in age, and one fundamentalist with one child. If I remember right, the Fundie asked the Catholic "you mean more than just on the wedding night?" and the Catholic replied "Yes, all the time!"
AH, I admit that "Every Sperm is Sacred" is right up there in Monty Python moments for me--along with "Always Look on the Bright Side of Life" (from Life of Brian--it's one reason the movie was banned in Alabama . . .) and "We're Knights of the Roundtable" which is at its most delicious when sung by animated Lego characters. I don't remember the Laugh-In skit--and I watched those religiously (sorry for the pun!)--but it sounds about right!
Most of my Monty Python use comes from “Search For the Holy Grail”. Those are : “I fart in your general direction” and anything I wish to disrespect “smells of elderberries”.
My dear friends got me a sweatshirt featuring “Black Knight BBQ, eat 840AD. It features the Black Knight (minus an arm) grilling with a quote that reads “just a flesh round” (picture a beef shank 1” thick with a round bon in the center…) and another that reads “our sauce ‘tis but a small batch”.
Aaron, it would seem that a DNA paternity test at birth of any baby born out of wedlock would go a long way toward motivating males of our species to use of the most available of those contraception techniques.
RE: Children Born out of Wedlock. There might be a few men who subscribe to "Letters" who, when an adolescent, whispered in the ear of a sweet young thing, "I love you. I love you." So, they're on a date. Say it's a dance. They decide the music is crummy so they take off. They drive down a quiet country road with the radio playing 'really good music.' Handsome stud reaches under the driver's seat and pulls out a pint of blackberry brandy, or some other such syrupy beverage. He offers her some; she obliges. He takes some. Repeat. In an hour's time they are in a different part of the auto. He offers his mantra, again. "I love you." A sad statistic is about to get its start!
Like car wreck fatalities, enforcement and education doesn't have near the effect as better technology. We don't want our kids driving death traps, let's make unwed mothers less likely.
The scenario I painted is as old as dirt. The characters are different, but the same. Somewhere in the mix is conversation with that adolescent about the facts of life or the birds and the bees, which some parents find difficult to have with their child/children, so they don't, or they say "Go talk to your mother/father!" So, (again referencing my scenario) while studly's partner might have thought what she did was wrong, according to family values, admonitions from church, or the health teacher at school, she decides SHE LIKES IT! We already know Studly likes it, and, they dodged a bullet. No pregnancy. Wonder if they will be intimate again? Wonder if they will always dodge the bullet? So, I don't know how your comment fits into my scenario, unless it is metaphoric, but I'd like to know.
We are designed to fall in love and make babies. It's in our DNA. Once those juices start flowing it changes our brains to do what rational people with foresight and good judgment can't imagine. To improve the average judgment of our democracy, maybe we could pull from the voting roles unwed parents of any sex.
Interesting that Utah has the lowest proportion of unwed mothers. "In 2012, just 15 percent of Utah women who had given birth in the past 12 months were unmarried — less than half the U.S. average. Utah also has the 5th lowest number of legal abortions. and 10th highest per capita income. They must be doing something right.
The results that Utah is experiencing might be attributed to the Mormon Church's influence on the population (I would guess that many if not most, of Utahns are Mormon).
Reversible male birth control is on the horizon with a dissolvable plug injected into the vas. I'm not at all sure that will solve the problem as long as we don't hold the fathers financially responsible for the children they father. There is no way to share the physical toll that pregnancy takes on a body. Just try to get disability insurance while you are pregnant.
Cameron, exactly so! DNA testing at birth of children born out of wedlock with subsequent paternity responsibilities enforced by law when matches discovered in already available databases would be a giant step toward leveling the playing field of laws restricting women's rights to their own reproductive freedoms.
Please, Systematic Curiosity, it did "have to be this way."
Logically, when schools rid themselves of humanities (for standardized testing to gut K-12, and for neutered silo specialization to make a mockery of "higher" ed), the perpetual juvenile no longer had anyone modeling anything but vulgarity, plus its ancillary "boys will be boys."
Before it was determined to be "cruel and unusual" punishment, men that committed rape were castrated. If someone is a serial rapist, why isn't an option for a judge to order a castration. We have 3 strike laws in many states, why not make that part of the sentence for second or third offenses.
Also, the 66,000 women who were raped and then became pregnant in the 6 week or fewer anti-abortion states. After a mandatory DNA test is administered and paternity is established, then automatically fine the rapist $10k per year as of the pregnancy date. (Of course that would be increased each year tied to COLA). If the baby is miscarried or due to an abortion, let the fine stand.
Many to most of these children are unwanted and raised by a single parent who has limited job opportunities in many cases. Child care for the children of rape in these states should be paid for by the state as well.
But, we're talking about Republicans here who have no interest in what happens to a baby once it is born.
Well part of the problem is the mistake that far too many people make: people think rape is about sex and male hormones. Rape is about violence, control and misogyny, period.
T L - You are correct. TFFG is a rapist - pure and simple. I cannot support a rapist, who was also indicted for many other crimes.
Just as I cannot support any religious group of people who reinforce the patriarchy. This includes the Catholic Church who allow their priests to rape children with impunity. Unless you count being relocated from one parish to another as punishment.
It also includes the 6 SCOTUS Republicans including Amy who belongs to a Catholic cult that supports the patriarchal view of the Catholic Church.
Republicans are ignoring SCOTUS rulings and if they grant immunity to the President, Biden is free to replace them. Damn the norms. He will have immunity to do as he pleases, just as TFFG will if he wins.
That 66,000 number illustrates the RAPE problem in this country as well. My God why aren't people up in arms about that as well?
Currently on social media there is a piece going around about what women would choose to run into in the woods a man or a bear. What women are saying is not that they think they could outrun the bear, or the bear isn't scary, or that they wouldn't get killed by the bear. They are saying that the potential outcome of the bear attack is still far less frightening than what a man could do to them. Men are all bent out of shape that women are choosing the bear.
My wife has reinforced in me the difference between a man walking down the street at 10:00 pm and a woman doing the same. She would NEVER do that even in a small town. I have done that many times in cities with the highest crime rates in the US. It's not because I'm brave or that I'm stupid, men just aren't molested or mugged like women are.
This is one of the most unfair things in our society.
People of color face the same fears as most women and an undocumented person is likely as not to get deported if they are raped or mugged.
And the GOP claims they are the party of justice. They don't have a clue.
Donna, I found that thought experiment interesting as well. I, too, would choose a bear. Bears don’t attack people with anything like the frequency that men do. I saw one response along the lines of “I would choose the bear because if it attacked me, I wouldn’t be forced to carry its fetus to term.” Men’s responses to women’s choices have been illuminating to say the least.
Men often see part of their role in relationships as that of protector. I want men to ask themselves: from what are you protecting women? The answer is, of course, from other men.
I think so. A solid majority, even in red states, supports women's right to abortion. The big underlying question is whether or not we will continue to live in a democracy where majority opinion matters. The antics in the MAGA wing of Congress, orchestrated by Trump, are primarily directed at the goal of trying to convince the public that democracy can't function. We must show them that it can!
We have the capacity to sweep. Expand the base. Here in Baghdad By the Sea, abortion was all over the local news...except for the Miami Herald, Spanish language El Herald and las noticias.
In honor of the event, FB6, Fadems and partner groups sent 100,000 texts to nonregistered Floridians re abortion.
FT 6 has added Florida to its targeted states. Besides abortion, marijuana is on the ballot. FT 6 has a dedicated database and uses every outreach method possible (phone and text, postcard, email and targeted ad, and in-person too), to target new Democratic voters will make the most impact – in the most flippable states and districts.
And in a democracy, the more choices we have on the ballot the more democratic the election is.And a spoiler is one who lacks the ability to win himself and blocks another potential winner. Based on recent Zogby polling, that defines Biden as a spoiler.
Yes, but to address the responsibility of men on this issue, as well as recognizing women as full human beings, a Feminist Democratic majority will get you a lot closer.
I'd like a show of hands by legislators: Who among you has had a pregnancy terminated by abortion -- or pressured a woman to end a pregnancy when you were the father? If truth serum were administered in advance, a huge number of hands would be raised!
Women legislators have shared their stories, but not men. Another question might be: how many of you have fathered a child out of wedlock and paid your fair share of support to the mother?
Men can avoid exposure and behave sanctimoniously while passing restrictive legislation and avoiding parental responsibility.
WOW! Daniel, what a dramatic antecedent if not premonition of two of the major concerns, nay conflicts which plague our modern world! Now if old Aristophenes could have imagined the possibility of humans irreversibly altering, if not destroying, their own world we'd have a true trifecta for the plagues on mankind!
It strikes me that enslavers and the forced birth people have a similar thought in mind--to deny people the right to their own body. Enslavers used skin color as a way to determine who should be enslaved. Forced birthers use sex as a way to deny women the right to their own bodies. Slavery was many magnitudes of horrible. All manner of rationalization was employed to justify slavery as all manner of rationalization is currently used to justify denying women needed healthcare. It has always been about white men having power and control over others.
This could tip the balance in favor of Democrats this November, more than counterbalancing the protest votes (or lack thereof) over Gaza. And then all manner of things could be set right. It is horrendous that women and girls must endure this outrage against their bodily autonomy. Let's use the anger to win.
Texas under Governor too stupid to not run during a thunderstorm Abbott has reduced prosecution of rape cases by 2/3. So, basically Texas has legalized rape and incest and made it illegal to receive women's health care.
Masters was raped in her Dallas home in 1985 when she was 13. She waited for more than 20 years for her SAK to be processed before her case was finally reopened, only for the statute of limitations to have already passed. Her attacker went on to commit other rapes. For years prior to HB 8 becoming law, Masters campaigned for sexual assault kit reform, lobbying the state government and becoming an advocate for sexual assault victims.
"It's almost like men designed the system." John Fugelsang
I’m sorry, this is fu^#*ng horrible. And why is always the goddamned WHITE males (won’t call them “men”) making these horrific laws? You couldn’t pay me to live in TX.
Yes! Except it bothers me when I hear posts of women “20 something’s” who support trump.
I saw something on Ari’s show last night, a discussion about how people get their news and who they support. Interesting that the young “20 something’s” get their news from social media platforms versus people who get their news from sources such as newspapers and reliable reporting, support Biden.
Young people think things will improve with trump in office. Prices in the grocery and gasoline is what they are focusing on. If they read legitimate sources (from Robert Reich, HCR, Jay Kao) they would have a better understanding. But they call these sources fake news. I had a fiery discussion with my son last evening….. ugh.
My husband told me about a conversation he had with a 20-something co-worker recently. She gets all her news from social media and supports RFK Jr. Without criticizing her, he told her about a couple of key Biden initiatives, like the Inflation Reduction Act, and their impact. She listened with interest... he gave her something concrete to think about.
Yes. This issue that has universal impact and reflects the extreme views of a vocal minority should motivate voters. And then...add the details within Project 2025 and what could be better political ammunition in defense of human rights and democracy?
Interestingly, Gaza protest against Dems is not widespread among youth, according to anything I've read, and it's actually a small sample of universities where protests have been happening. On the GOP side of things, they're all for Israel.
For those interested who have seen him in action in previous invasions of Substack, be aware that TrumpTroll "Frank Lee" is back. His purpose is to rile you up and play havoc with the conversations going on at the leading progressive/liberal Substacks.
Yes, that's the one thing that's true that he says. He is indeed a "social misfit." You don't see any of us going over to their sites and pulling this crap.
A six-week window for girls and women to become aware they are pregnant, visit a healthcare provider, and have the time necessary to consider their best path forward is literally absurd and a cruelty perpretrated by Republicans' insane obsession for power. Six weeks screams the Republicans' utter comtempt for females and the pleasure they take in hurting and mocking girls and women. This is insanity at its worst.
Exactly. Unless you are a 14-16 yr old girl who has gone through this, you can never understand the position these girls are in. They are terrified of how their parents will respond, they are terrified to ask anyone in their family for help, they have no money, and depending on where you live, you could be marked forever as a very bad person by that one action you took to protect your self and your life.
Jill Messick Ward, I agree we need to give minors options without parental consent when faced with parents not acting in the best interest of their daughter. My friend's family took a minor in and raised the 15 year old girl and her baby because her parents kicked her out of the house when they learned she was pregnant. They said it wasn't Christian-like behavior and God comes first, so they booted their scared daughter out and disowned her.
Other than money-changes, who did Jesus kick out? I'm not a "believer", but it has seemed to me that kindness was the key theme in what Jesus was preaching; and yet so much cruelty has been perpetrated in the name of religion. It makes no sense.
I was in a class last evening with make favorite dog training instructor. She tells us again and again to think about what the dog experiences, to try to provide what the dog needs to feel safe and feel good about doing what we want or need the dog to do. Person to person is different from person to dog, but empathy and understanding remain the best tools for a mutually beneficial relationship. Supremacy is crap, and in extreme forms becomes literally evil.
JL Graham, yes, love includes not excludes people. It seeks to understand not condemn others. Jesus and your dog trainer were/are good examples of love in action.
Yes, I am working on improving my own. At this point I indulge my distaste for sociopaths. I respect those who embrace even them; not the behavior, but the human being at the core.
MaryPat Sercu - MI, the story is even more unthinkable than what I posted. Decades ago, my friend's teenage neice was clear across the country visiting her dad as her parents were divorced. That's when her friend told her about being pregnant and that her parents were kicking her out "because God comes first in their house". My friend's neice phoned home to her mom to ask if the girl could come live with them. Her mom thought about it and then told her daughter yes, but only if she can speak to her friend's parents and they give their permission. The parents gave their permission to give their own daughter and soon to be grandchild to a woman clear across the country, they'd never met. Clearly, that was child neglect and insanity.
And women must make 2 doctor visits, at least 24 hours apart before receiving an abortion in Florida. Our ballot initiatives have a high bar of 60%, but, even when they pass the legislature slow walk’s implementation and waters it down as much as possible. The will of the people be damned.
As for the Texas habit of judge shopping, they want their chosen judge not only to decide state cases, but, federal ones as well that affect all Americans. Their version of state’s rights appears to be heads I win, tails you loose.
If Texas, or any state, refuses to follow federal law, then federal funds should be withheld until they comply. It’s time to get tough and protect the Union.
Diane Love (St Pertersburg FL), my heart goes out to you and the people of FL for all the heartbreak to come. Tyranny is an awful thing. I hope the ballot proposal is overwhelmingly passed and R voters apply pressure to the legislature to honor the will of the people.
Texas. Exasperation. Can we give it back to Mexico, after all the good people relocate?
Cruelty is the point. Many men have a scapegoat for their indiscretions, while there is no downside to their actions. Who is going to point a finger at them? If they have no morals, they do the finger-pointing. The guilt is soon obvious and the results fall on one while the other is exonerated. That’s why they are so sure that God is a man.
Move to the South where rape isn't prosecuted and you can have mini-me's running around without any consequences. If a woman tries to abort your baby lock her and her doctor up!
Thank you for presenting this issue so clearly. Women (and the men who love them) need to realize the danger that these laws pose to anyone who can become pregnant.
Another side effect: a medical student who wants to specialize in obstetrics or gynecology will want to do their residency in a state that allows abortions so that they can be taught about that healthcare as well as associated procedures (like dilation and curettage D&C). It’s been shown that the majority of doctors choose to practice in the same state where they do their residencies. So, states outlawing abortions will have fewer obstetricians in the future.
Yes, this is a very serious problem. This is basic and necessary female medical care that is no longer being given to women in a number of states. Here's the other problem: as a set of male medical students who want to into OBGYN it's very, very small. Less than 1%. There is a growing population a very competent mid-wives who could use some help with training and getting licensed in states not in only in New England.
Both nurse midwives and professional (formerly called "lay") midwives provide excellent, highly competent and supportive care for pregnant women all across this nation. CNM's have always been licenced, while professional credentials are more recent. They are all affected by these draconian and potentially deadly laws though.
Exactly, and it’s already happening. Established OBGYNs are leaving, medical students are changing their specialty, and fewer are moving here. The “unintended” consequences of these laws are devastating.
Doctors are treating pregnant people like unexploded ordnances, afraid treatment will blow up their careers. This was already a high risk career. So much for the joy of pregnancy.
How well I know Barbara. It took me months to get an appointment with a OB/GYN for suspected uterine cancer. Living with the uncertainty made me actually relieved when they finally diagnosed cancer. Then they acted quickly. And I have great insurance.
Unintended consequences also include the impact on the health and well-being of women dealing with unique situations like ectoptic pregnancies, nonviable fetuses, and so on. As if the men making these laws even understand women's anatomy!
Most men have no clue. And women who want to outlaw abortions have internalized sexism, thinking men will protect them.
If I had a daughter who wanted to get pregnant, I’d advise her to leave Florida for a state that would honor her rights and protect her in an emergency.
Yesterday's enslavers are today called justices on the Clarence court -- they just hate, hate, hate anyone being free when ancient stereotypes abound to which elites may consign millions of people to conform.
Yesterday's enslavers are called Republicans -- who hate, hate, hate anyone not packaged by our billionaires.
Thank you, J L for the link correcting some myths regarding the economics of U.S. slavery.
I think we all know, though need not respect, how economics evolve. Dark money in the hands of U.S. billionaires has grown, evolved, and brought in whole ancillary professions further to vaunt the billionaires.
See Frank Vogl's "The Enablers: How the West Supports Kleptocrats and Corruption -- Endangering our Democracy" and Oliver Bullough's "Butler to the World: How Britain Became the Servant of Tycoons, Tax Dodgers, Kleptocrats and Criminals."
Whole new industries have grown in America of the morally empty and the ethically constricted. Take the biz ed regimes that have so outstripped everything else across U.S. "higher" ed. They're the living dead who offshored those millions of former U.S. working-class jobs. Humanities crippled. So the fact that their economics techniques and strategies evolve doesn't impress me one bit.
The former U.S. working class who got their jobs offshored correctly see our elites as morally empty, ethically constricted, humanities crippled, living dead. But because humanities got so marginalized, silo-set-aside, and abandoned (like our former working classes) none has ever had access to the novels, memoirs, histories, films, and music which detail the damages. So all just generalize clumsily about our elites -- as if all morphed into one and the same glob.
A pathetic situation, J L -- one which will worsen until our schools throw off the billionaires, the dark money, and others such as the standardized testers who dig all deeper into inhumanity.
Somehow I turned out to be a natural science nerd, but also an arts nerd. I love conversations with scientists, but more of my friends have been artists. I think science aims to approximate Kant's ding an sich. The arts address the human sentient experience. Of the two approaches, I think what we sensually experience makes us most human, (humanities?); but possession of a reasonably accurate map of how reality is put together, is immensely useful, and sometimes the key to survival.
Phil, I’ve heard those exact words said to an exhausted mother of 8 children by a parish priest. Five months later she died in childbirth, leaving her husband to raise all those children.
My mother wanted her tubes tied after five, and got that same sermon. The last of the five was the only one not born in the Catholic hospital - they wouldn't do the ligation that her doctor told her was necessary if she wanted to live. That's just one of the many reasons I stopped being a practicing Catholic decades ago.
50 years ago I had to have a D & C (side effect of being on the pill for ten years - my babies were born 15 months apart). "Why not just tie my tubes while I'm under anaesthetic?" I asked my reasonable young Australian doctor. "Certainly," he said, "I'll need your husband's written permission." Forget it, I said, and subjected myself to the painful indignity of an IUD.
My daughter was born 5 years after my tubes were tied. My mother said it was my fault because each of my three sons were named (middle name) after a grandparent, but none after her. So my daughter's middle name is "Phelan"...
Mary Hardt, to you and all the other women, Happy Day of the Goddesses. I read an article today that said that in Europe pre-christianity, May 1st was called Day of the Goddesses to celebrate the feminine. (It is now the 2nd but HCR's post is for the 1st, so I think it's okay to still celebrate.)
My French friends and I exchanged virtual sprigs of lily-of-the valley, which is customary in France on 1st May, which is also a full paid public holiday in Europe honoring the workers
My parents raised me in the Unitarian-Universalist church and had not heard of "Original Sin" until I was about 8 years old.. It never made a bit of sense for me. If there is an "original sin" it's our urges to dominate others.
Phil, I wish more people would talk about the religious aspects of the abortion and bodily autonomy debate. Too much is left unsaid by most people.
[Edit: This piece runs long. It's after 3 am here between Milwaukee and Chicago. Maybe I can edit it down to half the present size later today.]
There are fundamental questions about the nature of the universe that must be decided by each individual human. In our system in the US, we have a large number of people who think of themselves, and refer to themselves, as Christians. Some, perhaps many, only understand a little about what it means to be a Christian -- judging by what they do, not by what they say. To be sure, many people have a thorough understanding of Christianity.
The First Amendment's purpose is to ensure that each citizen can make their own evaluation of whether or not God exists, and what to do about it either way. It is apparent that many of the people who oppose abortion also regard the Bible as literally true in all aspects. In their literal belief and understanding there are disembodied spirits, and souls, that enter and depart from the human body. Another popular belief is that God manipulates things in the world, and puts a particular soul into a particular body, or something like that, and there is a plan for that soul's life in the physical world. The belief goes back and forth, conveniently, that everything that happens is God's Will. However, we are quite certain that the children who were murdered at Sandy Hook Elementary School were not victims of God's Will.
For me, and for people who believe as I do, if there is a God, It does not operate that way. To do so would effectively completely remove our moral agency. We strive to do what is right and good. We want, and need, to be masters of our own destiny, to the extent possible. For those who believe that God plays an active role in the things that happen to us humans in this world, that's fine for them, but I don't want them to make laws for society that conform to their personal belief systems. This is why we need the separation of church and state. Those true believers can be forgiven for forgetting that there are other religions and belief systems. Many Christians firmly believe that their religion is the one true religion.
I'm not asking the true believers to conform their beliefs to what I believe. I'm only saying "You do you". Live the way you think is right. And allow me to live the way I think is right. I would venture to say that the First Amendment defines an important part of the "soul of America" -- freedom to worship, and believe, as we wish.
We could remind the Speaker Johnsons of the world that the separation of church and state protects their right to worship according to what they believe. It also protects me from being forced to conform my belief and practice to Speaker Johnson's estimation of what is going on in this universe. I would not want Speaker Johnson to force my daughter to conform to his version of reality. Her decision about what to do with her body should be her prerogative exclusively. If she were a believer in Buddhism or Cao Dai in Vietnam, she should be allowed to live according to what she believes.
The gray area exists around the point of viability. We all know that we DO want to be able to legislate morality. We don't want to tolerate murder. So the fundamental question is whether or not we as a society want to allow a woman to terminate her pregnancy if she wishes to do so, prior to the point of viability. If the pregnant woman does not believe in souls or disembodied spirits, it should be her right to decide whether or not to bring a child into this world. She might pray for guidance in the matter, following the advice of Jesus, alone in secret in her closet, where God listens to her prayer, and knows what is in her heart. In that same passage, we are warned not to act like the hypocrites, who stand on the public street corner and pray out loud, thereby hoping to be seen by their fellow citizens as pious. In that sense, Speaker Johnson is like the hypocrites, if he tells the young woman that she must bear the child. Speaker Johnson doesn't know God's will in the matter. For all we know, he (Johnson) may be like the hypocrites, hoping to be seen publicly to do "the right thing". Her relationship in this matter is between her and God. The Congress should not invade her privacy by forcing her to carry her pregnancy to full term. The Members of Congress must respect her relationship with God. If she doesn't believe in God, and wants to terminate her pregnancy, she should not be forced to conform her own beliefs to the will of other members of society who believe in a popular religion. That would be a violation of her rights as an American citizen under the First Amendment to the Constitution, popularly known as Separation of Church and State.
Thank you David. The separation of church and state was as important to the Founders as was the prevention of a monarchy. Their own history in Europe was rife with the horrors rendered by both. They might have have been guided by certain Christian values and traditions, but they were clearly informed by the centuries of Christian conflict and conflagration - slaughter and endless horrors brought on by religious intolerance.
The fact that we are actually having this conversation is a statement of the stubborn refusal of a minority of self righteous, self absorbed, bible thumping, arrogant monsters who are ignorant of the past and it's lessons. If there is a Hell (which is unlikely) there will be a special section for them where they will be lectured by people with completely different religious views. Since there are about 4000 religions on the planet, that would be sufficient to torture them for something close to eternity.
So conveniently, so many Christians leave Satan’s work out of the picture. Rape is not God’s work. Forcing a child or woman of any age to bear the child of a rapist is not God’s work. The choice !!! Satan is so much at work here and being rewarded by Trump and his Republican creepers!
I consider that being Pro-Choice includes respecting a woman's relationship with her doctor, and also respecting her relationship with herself. Each woman will need to look at her values, and in many cases her relationship to the God of her understanding, or if she is not religious, her sense of right and wrong as a human being.
Yes. And believing mumbo jumbo nonsense from mythical sources of superstition is also a human decision and long tradition. Not to disparage anyone's belief system, but if one attempts to apply it to others, one should stick their beliefs where the sun doesn't shine.
If there is a magic man/woman in the sky, and it is benevolent, it would want us to procreate in a manner that is healthy, loving and positive. It would want children to be wanted. It would want babies to be born when they can be cared for properly - with adequate shelter, food, healthcare and education.. and love. No? God doesn't love us all equally?
So if you follow my logic, the magic sky thing that Republican anti-abortion extremists worship must be a diabolical devil demon entity that enjoys watching humans suffer.
Yep. The real position of 'Right to Life' founder Donald Wildmon was that unwanted pregnancies were a punishment from God. By the early '80s most people weren't buying this argument, so he rebranded and pretended to care about unborn children.
Knowing the religious basis for the anti-choice movement explains a lot. That's how they can be anti-abortion, anti-contraception, anti-education, etc. For them it's all about not interfering with God's will.
(Edit: when a rant about the nature and misperception of divinity elicits zero response, my instinct is to delete it. So that's what I've done, for general purposes.)
Republican pro-lifers aren't pro-life or pro-America! They're pro-power and control. Pro-self. Pro-guns that kill. Pro-laws that kill women with unsafe pregnancies. Pro-dictator. Anti-liberty. They are pro- laws that further their agenda. Anti-truth, anti-life anti-liberty, anti-justice, and anti- the pursuit of happiness ... unless it's their own. And yet, they are well positioned to overthrow our democracy and rule us all. It's sickening.
I am a bit surprised that Florida did not arrest Harris for speaking out/protesting their abortion law. If she encouraged any woman to leave the state, she may be seen as a conspirator.
Here's an idea. You are a Mom/Dad of new first time voters. Talk them through "How to Vote" ie walk in, get your ballot, go to the booth and pick your choices, put your ballot into the voting machine, and leave. Offer to go with them a few times, then take them out to breakfast/lunch/dinner. Tell them you are proud of them for voting. After they have voted, discuss why you voted for who you did. Tell them voting is private, and they don't have to tell you who they voted for. They will tell you who they voted for and why. They will be proud of themselves because you approve of them for voting. Reinforce that voting is essential to our democracy. And that the only way to have voting is for ALL eligible voters to keep voting . Seems stupid, but if only older people are voting, Democracy dies. We have to get the young people on board when they can first vote, and let them know that their vote counts and that they have a HUGE say in how things go in the future. But only if they vote.
They have a huge say, but also a responsibility to make a choice that is just to ALL of the people. Typically the least privileged elements of society suffer most when we don't vote or make unwise choices. Equal protection under law. We should make it so.
I'll say one more thing. As a survivor of early adolescent sexual assault, I cannot fathom how much more traumatized (long term) I would have been had I gotten pregnant abs been forced to bring that horrible man's offspring into the world. 13 year old "women" are GIRLS. Forced pregnancy... then the guy who did it should be forced to never have sex again, yep, cut it off, and have to pay for EVERYTHING. Even if that means enslaving him. God knows these criminals won't ever be accountable if they are not forced. Crazy for crazy. Can you even imagine if that was the price?
The Florida abortion ban epitomizes American fascism by prioritizing state control over individual liberties, specifically targeting women's bodily autonomy and healthcare decisions. The Florida abortion ban not only epitomizes American fascism by prioritizing state control over individual liberties but also echoes the authoritarianism of the Civil War-era Confederacy, alive in the 21st century, as it targets women's bodily autonomy and healthcare decisions. This aligns with historical state-centric tactics that erode federal protections for personal freedoms, reinforcing systemic oppression and inequality.
Escaped the hell hole in '85. It's been all downhill for Florida since. With everything from hanging chads to book bans to an outright life-threatening attitude towards women, I do not see how it could get much worse. Oh, and I forgot the threatened water supply and the overcrowded roads - minor inconveniences, compared to the lack of humanity in the state government. And some of my friends still want to retire there. Go figure.
Florida is 2 states and should be divided into North and South. South Florida is essentially a Borough of New York City, generates the majority of tax revenues and anything worthy of note. North Florida is former Confederacy, really part of lower/slower Alabama and Georgia. As we say in Miami, 'the farther north you go, the farther south you get'. We in South Florida are fed up, disgusted and made miserable by north Florida, have been living for decades with the 'tyranny of the minority' the rest of country recently discovered with WBush and Trump. Only solution is to end gerrymandering, which Roberts court refused to do.
South of Florida City sadly is not what it was, except possibly Key West. Yet those that want to not pave paradise are stymied by the state legislature who overrule them, or their voices are drowned out by transplants and idiots. As elsewhere they vote against their self interest.
Yes, it has become more difficult, as the insurance companies deal with global warming and the realization the state is really nothing but a big sandbar. Sinkholes and all.
If the states that have banned abortion really believe that abortion is wrong and all pregnancies should come to term, then where are their programs for pre-natal care, publicly funded child care, publicly funded child health care, child food programs, and child development programs. Upon examination this whole position seems to track some sort of Puritan thinking that seems to be aimed at punishing women for engaging in sex using arguments that seem to shout lofty notions such a right to life. Those on the right are constantly shouting about government regulation, however, they have no difficulty regulating the rights of women.
This is dead on. I've heard Evangelicals complain about Plan B because it allowed women to escape the consequences of their actions. There are almost certainly some people who honestly oppose abortion because they care about unborn children. But the actual members of the 'Right to Life' movement clearly have an agenda that doesn't match their claims.
Apparently, the Evangelicals haven't heard that the only reason a woman gets pregnant is that sperm is introduced at a time of fertility. That is to say, it isn't women that cause pregnancy, it is men. THEY should be the responsible party.
Hold the Florida Republican legislators who were involved in banning abortions accountable! Check this map for every Florida legislator: State House, State Senate, Congressional rep, Senator, Governor and State Attorney General, along with their contact details. It includes details on how to register to voter in Florida, check your Voter ID and details on Amendment 4 which is the ballot measure to restore abortion rights.
When will women start writing laws that restrict a man’s right to bodily autonomy? How about insisting every male has a vasectomy at age 18, fewer unwanted pregnancies and if that man wants children and can prove he can afford to care for them until they reach 18 he can have that vasectomy reversed, at his own expense. Everybody is ignoring the fact that none of these pregnancies happen without male involvement, yet men have no consequences and are given this kind of power and control over women?? Beyond infuriating.
When she was a senator, Kamala Harris asked Brett Kavanaugh what laws restricted men's rights to bodily autonomy. He hemmed and hawed until he finally said none.
Kamala even repeated the question, in a polite-and-almost-condescending voice. After Kavanaugh’s previous demeanor, it was glorious to watch.
Kavanaugh forgot the only law at that time—The Selective Service Act.
Kavanaugh can forget the U.S. draft, Citizen60.
His Putin arranges all the fighting and murder fit to Kavanaugh's liking.
Hahaha
“Take a gander at this Project 2025 gem on male condoms.”
Eliminate men’s preventive services from the women’s preventive services mandate. In December 2021, HRSA updated its women’s preventive services guidelines to include male condoms after claiming for years that it had no authority to do so because Congress explicitly limited the mandate to “women’s” preventive care and screenings. HRSA should not incorporate exclusively male contraceptive methods into guidelines that specify they encompass only women’s services.
Project 2025, page 485
“This could indicate a tactical intention to restrict access to condoms. It could also signal a willingness to separate a man’s contraceptive tool from options for women. Given my experience with Christian Nationalism, I’m more inclined to believe the former. Because again, hardline Christian Nationalists believe nothing man-made should prohibit the joining of sperm and egg.”
📣https://project2025istheocracy.substack.com/p/reader-question-what-does-project
The media should be presenting Project 2025 piece by piece and explaining what the impact would be. This is the blueprint for if Trump wins - or the next time any Republican wins.
Actually we found it by accident....this is a Republican thing! They only want us to be aware of what they need to get the vote. Those dirty crooks!!!!! PS. I learned about it in these comments....and found it... but, it wasn't available to me until I added the www.
I’d love to know how many of them have been faithful to their wives. How many are on 2nd and 3rd trophy wife status. How deep a dive would that take? Of course, Pence and Johnson wouldn’t be included in search.
How many have provided abortions to their mistresses?
I'm not so sure about Johnson. We can't forget that he has a buddy system app to keep him from viewing porn.
TIME's next cover story/special issue, a logical follow-up to the current issue on Drumpf!
Lynne, exactly this.
You know what they call people who use the rhythm method of birth control?
Parents.
No doubt that would be denied too!
Rhythm method was used by Catholics back in the day. Maybe that's why they had such large families, i.e. Kennedys.
Another highly effective birth control method is holding an aspirin between your knees.
My comment about the rhythm method goes back almost 40 years when my best friend, a practicing Catholic, told me she was pregnant for the 4th time in 4 years ( her second pregnancy was twins). Her husband had a vasectomy right after that. They’ve been married 43 years and have 9 grandchildren.
I suspect a lot men would not have a vasectomy as they would think it would harm their masculinity. The saying is that REAL men can wear pink AND still be masculine.
The main theme in Project 2025, hidden in the overall plan, relates to demographics and white supremacy. The demographic problm is that white folks are not replacing themselves at a sustainable rate. From a productivity standpoint, immigrants can easily make up for that; but that presents a clear political danger to those focused on race-based power -- they will not be abe to impose their will on the country. So they aim to limit imigration ("...you will not replace us!") by scapegoating immigrants and establishing immigrant detention camps, the latest version of concentration camps. At the same time, they need to increase the production of white chidren, and the abortion bans are one way to accomplish that. A more effective approach is to ban contraception. Incorporating religion into the scheme helps establish a supposed moral basis for defining right and wrong, and from there limiting the freedom of women and families to regulate family size. In this view, Trump and MAGA are only means to an end, since they are willing to exercise the cruelty needed to bring these about quickly.
I appreciate your succinct summary of Project 2025.
I didn't even touch on a role for acquiring wealth and power, but that seems to be behind the attraction to autocratic oligarchs ...
They must not take into consideration the fact that if whites have no contraception, neither will anyone else.
Deep thinkers, they're not!
people don't look forward and are only concerned with instant gratification. No abortion. Swell. but they want to cut social services which would help single parents, and welfare programs for the thousands of 18 year olds who are thrown out of the foster care system. Thousands of children waiting to be adopted, and now they want to add more children to the list.
Excellent point!
Ah, yes. America’s need for “a domestic supply of infants”, as written by Samuel Alioto.
Let Samuel Aioto get pregnant!
It might as well be called The Aryan Race Document.
That is exactly what it is.
So, they could outlaw vasectomies to equalize the intrusions on male and female reproductive choice. They moght even think such a move would make everyone happy!
Yep!
Yup
This is so very very true!!👍I agree with you MisTBlu!!!
And I believe most men could care less if they are a father or not. They mostly like that orgasm! Not the child....that is an accident. The child to some becomes a burden unless they choose to just walk away and give the mother the full responsibility.
I heard on NPR this morning that pregnant women in Missouri are not allowed (by law) to get a divorce (while pregnant). This allows husbands to prevent their wives from divorcing them as long as they are pregnant. Again, controlling and limiting women by keeping them pregnant.
How terrible.
Sharon I think you are right about some men, but not most. I have two grown sons who welcomed having a family and who supported their wives.
That is wonderful. I have 2 son-in-laws that do the same.
I like Kamala. She needs "women" to get out onto the streets in numbers which stop traffic. Women comprise half of our population (plus or minus), they are not forced to wear head-scarfs to indicate their submission to some diety or whatever, let alone submission to the other half of the population. So, tell me.., women can conceal-carry just like men..., what IS the problem girls? You don't want to get pregnant..? Don't F around. And, "guys".., if the DNA matches, you're on-the-hook! Next.
The admonition to not f*ck around unless you want to get pregnant ignores some critical facts. The only forms of birth control that are 100% effective 100% of the time are total abstinence, tubal ligation, or same sex acts. Even vasectomy doesn't qualify. Leaving aside the reality that human beings have the right to have and enjoy sex (much of which takes place in a committed relationship) and we see that the admonition to only have sex if you want to get pregnant is quite unhelpful. As for solving anything with a gun, well that's like saying more rain is the solution for floods.
MisTBlu, thank you for your most kind treatment of my remark(s). In a nutshell it was a way of expressing my frustration that women (in general) don't team up and refute the "male" crap that they are blanketed with. In this country the means and laws exist to do so. And, in our brief history, "women" have taken 'the bull(shit)' , meaning "men", by the horn and showed them the door. That's kind of what I implied by 'concealed-carry'. Thank you again for your comment. The last thing I want to see is you resorting to wearing a scarf.
I have asked this same question over and over but to no avail. In the United States I guess women get pregnant through divine intervention because there is NEVER any mention of putting men in jail when they impregnate a women, or any mention ever that men had a part in a pregnancy, wanted or unwanted. Why aren’t women speaking up more? I told my oldest granddaughter years ago, before Cheetolinni, that they would eventually come for contraceptives. It’s in their plan now. When that same granddaughter got married last year, she had three bridesmaids, all young twenty something’s …all Trump supporters. Insane!! If women don’t rally and fight back, they will continue to take our rights away. But I’m afraid too many live with their heads in the sand and won’t wake up until it’s too late!!
Exactly -- what if a law was passed requiring that all males at birth were given DNA tests so that their paternity could be easily determined and they would be on the hook for half the $$ and half childcare if the woman wanted it. I hate the idea of one awful law that has to be combatted by another awful law -- but since most of the legislators passing these laws are men they should have some (fore)skin in the game.
Sharon, Systematic and Laurie, it seems entirely plausible to me that some day women will wield enough political power to align themselves with truly equal rights (and responsibilities) leading to passage of an amendment that requires the DNA testing of every baby born to single mothers (whether conceived consensually or by rape) with subsequent enforcement of paternity responsibilities (or jail) if and when DNA matches are discovered in the data bases already available and which grow daily. THAT would begin to balance the Kamala Harris equation if offered as a bargaining chip in exchange for removing these multiple laws aimed only at women's reproductive rights. We have reached a stage where courts recognize the validity and reliability of DNA testing as much if not more than eye-witness testimony.
Love it, nail them where it hurts
Well following God's slaying of Onan for 'spilling his seed' the Catholic Church made coitus interruptus and by extension all contraception a sin.
Currently, the right to contraception is protected by two Supreme Court decisions, Griswold v. Connecticut (1965) and Eisenstadt v. Baird (1972). In Griswold, the Court recognized that the constitutional right to privacy encompasses the right of married people to obtain contraceptives. Eisenstadt extends protections to unmarried couples.
Opus Dei acolyte and court capture operative Leonard Leo's merry band of Catholic extremists composing the Supreme Court majority haven't gotten around to overturning that, yet. Although Scalia spoke of it explicitly and his sock puppets Alito and Thomas have dissembled and darkly hinted at what else Dobbs opens the door to overturning.
According to the Gospel of St. Scalia, the right to handheld rocket launchers could be protected but not condoms.
From an interview 2012 Fox interview with Chris Wallace:
"What about "handheld rocket launchers that can bring down airplanes"? Scalia said it's unclear whether that's protected, and "it will have to be decided." I'll look forward to it.
But of particular interest to me was Scalia's opposition to privacy rights. Unprompted, the justice noted his opposition to reproductive rights, and it led to this exchange:
WALLACE: What about the right to privacy that the court found in known 1965?
SCALIA: There is no right to privacy. No generalized right to privacy.
WALLACE: Well, in the Griswold case, the court said there was.
SCALIA: Indeed it did, and that was -- that was wrong.
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/scalia-rejects-privacy-rights-flna916023
Scalia was one of those evil ideologues who was very intelligent. Alito and Thomas can't hold a candle to him intellectually, but they are evil enough.
Head banging on wall - this thread is scapula sharp today. I’m also reviewing memories of 38 years ago today when our daughter was born. The t terror and anticipation of having
(Cont’d, ((stupid Substack)). a baby!
Notice the 3 dots bottom right of your comment. Touch that and see if Edit is an option. It may expire after a while, but you should have at least 5 minutes.
This is an edit after 32 minutes
Thank you, I did not know there was a timed edit window. I probably used my five minutes trying to get back to my post🙄. Inexplicably, the post disappeared before I finished and posted itself.
Even the young are too often ostriches
Please cite a novel or movie, Jeri, reducing the young as does your one sentence.
Just thinking of some I know, and have known. Also TV has mobs of invigorated young people with venom pointed at whoever has a dab of power. Not the situation everywhere, but I am surprised by the lethargy of some and the energy of others. Sorry "young," it's not just you.
You and I may know young people, Jeri.
But our artists know them better. That's why I always beg for citations of those -- call them artists -- who've taken the time and effort to provide scenarios better than have most of us.
They are livin the life and enjoying the excitement!
The Equal Rights Amendment is what’s needed.
Enough states have now ratified the Amendment, but after the ratification deadline. Pelosi introduced legislation to remove the deadline, but Democrats didn’t have the Senate.
I miss Nancy Pelosi.
Intelligent, strong, effective, and wickedly funny -- Nancy's been a perfect leader for the last wave of feminism.
Claims she learned her leadership skills from raising her 5 kids--that she had in 6 years. Like to see Speaker Johnson or any of the previous Speakers (all male) manage that!
Yet another excellent reason to hold (& fortify) the Senate: Pass the ERA! 💪
And take back the House of Representatives.
Absolutely!!! Yes, we need to take back the House as well! Thank you.
Yes, Systematic Curiosity, "it was always about taking away women's freedom."
But there's a next step, which devolves to the disappearance of even the concept of freedom -- anyone's (except of course the monied corrupt).
When humanities totally disappear (not just their uses in schools today), everyone can sink to the status of serfs again. Slaves for the aristocratic classes currently called billionaires, or most of the justices on the Clarence court.
How did it even occur even briefly, the concept of women's freedom? The U.S. entertained it fitfully for a few decades. Japan did so, for a few centuries (1,000 years ago, the Heian era). Soon, even its memory will have become as obsolete as our neutered elites have made humanities in schools today.
May I suggest the thought-experiment novel “The Power” by Naomi Aldermann….an interesting read—was on Obama’s 2017 (I think that was the year) recommended books list.
I told my boyfriend that is a supporter of tfg (and a die hard Fox News watcher and Republican) that tfg would take away a womans rights to abortion and he acted like I had two (2) heads! He never heard of that and it would not happen..... now we can't discuss politics! We talk about the weather...mainly he calls me everyday to make sure I didn't die over night. LOL That was after I heard about someone that died and know one knew it for at least a week.
Well said!
How about - if they don't get a vasectomy, they can't own a gun?
Many men would have a conniption fit. Let’s go for it.
So that's a good reason... right?
Do we have to have permission?
Well folks you both know the answer if you have to ask.
How right you are
How about refusing sex? You know, Lysistrata in real life.
The women in _Lysistrata_ didn't get slapped around, or f*ed forcibly, or both. But then _Lysistrata_ was a comedy.
Brilliant!
brilliant.
Hey, Swbv -- there's also, too, the monster pick-up trucks starting at $50,000, $60,000.
I like to think they’d vote in their own interests. Though usually a last resort, keeping politicians away from a woman’s own choices is a good idea. And good for the men they might date. Right?
😂❤️
Gwen, if I could “like” your comment 100 times I would. Thank you for writing that.
Well, many of us are cognizant of the man's involvement. Things would be easier were the Equal Rights Amendment given a window to complete ratification.
Ned, I’ve been waiting my whole life (at least becoming really aware of it in the ‘60’s) for the ERA to be ratified….clock is ticking for me to experience this in the here ‘n now!
Sadly, it appears our clocks are turning backwards...
Apropos of that thought, Ellen: Paul Simon Slip Slidin’ Away https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vVoX_Oh21ug
"The nearer your destination, the more you're slip slidin' away."
I have been on board throughout my political 'neurotissey' of fluctuating between the two Parties. Women are not yet completely part of the body politic. If they were, violations of the fourth and ninth amendments would not be so casual.
Exactly!
The voters who constitute the majority who have rebuffed the anti-abortion bans by their votes that reversed these bans consist of both men and women. I recommend encouraging that voting majority with giving credit where credit is due as a whole. They do not want political hacks practicing medicine without a license either. How they voted is what made the difference, not their gender assigned at birth.
Gwen, I have been saying this for years--including on this platform. What I find interesting is that suddenly (starting in late February but more significantly in the last few weeks) the national news feeds are starting to talk about the fact that in the 1970s (yes: the 1970s--that's significant) the MO legislature passed a law making it very difficult for a pregnant woman to get divorced, even from an abusive husband. And why? because women are finally pushing back HARD and because the MO leg is dominated by christofascists who want to control all aspects of women's bodies (including refusing to get rid of sales tax on women's menstrual cycle products), they are beginning to realize that the law might, ahem, be working against them. Because all the penises in the MO leg and governor's office are also trying to prevent Missourians from voting on a constitutional amendment guaranteeing women's right to bodily autonomy--BECAUSE THEY KNOW THAT IT WILL PASS. For anyone who questions the idea that these men and their non-cis, non-male enablers are malevolent actors who need to be removed from office, just take a look at what they think of women: as vessels for their sperm and incubators, not as humans. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fUspLVStPbk
Linda, I didn't recall the Monty Python sketch, but I do remember one on Rowan and Martin's Laugh In, where there were two couples depicted; one Catholic with children who appeared to be a bout 9-12 months apart in age, and one fundamentalist with one child. If I remember right, the Fundie asked the Catholic "you mean more than just on the wedding night?" and the Catholic replied "Yes, all the time!"
AH, I admit that "Every Sperm is Sacred" is right up there in Monty Python moments for me--along with "Always Look on the Bright Side of Life" (from Life of Brian--it's one reason the movie was banned in Alabama . . .) and "We're Knights of the Roundtable" which is at its most delicious when sung by animated Lego characters. I don't remember the Laugh-In skit--and I watched those religiously (sorry for the pun!)--but it sounds about right!
Most of my Monty Python use comes from “Search For the Holy Grail”. Those are : “I fart in your general direction” and anything I wish to disrespect “smells of elderberries”.
My dear friends got me a sweatshirt featuring “Black Knight BBQ, eat 840AD. It features the Black Knight (minus an arm) grilling with a quote that reads “just a flesh round” (picture a beef shank 1” thick with a round bon in the center…) and another that reads “our sauce ‘tis but a small batch”.
TMI and a complete sidebar, but there ya go.
🤣
"Nearly 300,000 paternity tests are conducted each year to determine parent relationships" and financial responsibility.
Children born to unwed mothers is as high as 55% in several states.
https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/pressroom/sosmap/unmarried/unmarried.htm
60 percent of children born out of wedlock are poor, compared with only 37 percent of children born within marriage.
https://www.urban.org/sites/default/files/publication/69846/409295-Poverty-among-Children-Born-Outside-of-Marriage.PDF
Contraception techniques for all unwed people makes sense.
Aaron, it would seem that a DNA paternity test at birth of any baby born out of wedlock would go a long way toward motivating males of our species to use of the most available of those contraception techniques.
RE: Children Born out of Wedlock. There might be a few men who subscribe to "Letters" who, when an adolescent, whispered in the ear of a sweet young thing, "I love you. I love you." So, they're on a date. Say it's a dance. They decide the music is crummy so they take off. They drive down a quiet country road with the radio playing 'really good music.' Handsome stud reaches under the driver's seat and pulls out a pint of blackberry brandy, or some other such syrupy beverage. He offers her some; she obliges. He takes some. Repeat. In an hour's time they are in a different part of the auto. He offers his mantra, again. "I love you." A sad statistic is about to get its start!
Like car wreck fatalities, enforcement and education doesn't have near the effect as better technology. We don't want our kids driving death traps, let's make unwed mothers less likely.
The scenario I painted is as old as dirt. The characters are different, but the same. Somewhere in the mix is conversation with that adolescent about the facts of life or the birds and the bees, which some parents find difficult to have with their child/children, so they don't, or they say "Go talk to your mother/father!" So, (again referencing my scenario) while studly's partner might have thought what she did was wrong, according to family values, admonitions from church, or the health teacher at school, she decides SHE LIKES IT! We already know Studly likes it, and, they dodged a bullet. No pregnancy. Wonder if they will be intimate again? Wonder if they will always dodge the bullet? So, I don't know how your comment fits into my scenario, unless it is metaphoric, but I'd like to know.
We are designed to fall in love and make babies. It's in our DNA. Once those juices start flowing it changes our brains to do what rational people with foresight and good judgment can't imagine. To improve the average judgment of our democracy, maybe we could pull from the voting roles unwed parents of any sex.
Interesting that Utah has the lowest proportion of unwed mothers. "In 2012, just 15 percent of Utah women who had given birth in the past 12 months were unmarried — less than half the U.S. average. Utah also has the 5th lowest number of legal abortions. and 10th highest per capita income. They must be doing something right.
https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/data/seattle-has-lowest-rate-of-unwed-motherhood-among-u-s-big-cities/#:~:text=Utah%20is%20also%20a%20bastion,than%20half%20the%20U.S.%20average.
The results that Utah is experiencing might be attributed to the Mormon Church's influence on the population (I would guess that many if not most, of Utahns are Mormon).
Reversible male birth control is on the horizon with a dissolvable plug injected into the vas. I'm not at all sure that will solve the problem as long as we don't hold the fathers financially responsible for the children they father. There is no way to share the physical toll that pregnancy takes on a body. Just try to get disability insurance while you are pregnant.
Cameron, exactly so! DNA testing at birth of children born out of wedlock with subsequent paternity responsibilities enforced by law when matches discovered in already available databases would be a giant step toward leveling the playing field of laws restricting women's rights to their own reproductive freedoms.
So true. It matters. I found a man who was raised to be a solid man. In fact, when he died, that was an adjective I heard more than once.
Please, Systematic Curiosity, it did "have to be this way."
Logically, when schools rid themselves of humanities (for standardized testing to gut K-12, and for neutered silo specialization to make a mockery of "higher" ed), the perpetual juvenile no longer had anyone modeling anything but vulgarity, plus its ancillary "boys will be boys."
Like locker room talk of grabbing women-needs to change. There are birth control failures, so room for responsibilities by all parties.
Before it was determined to be "cruel and unusual" punishment, men that committed rape were castrated. If someone is a serial rapist, why isn't an option for a judge to order a castration. We have 3 strike laws in many states, why not make that part of the sentence for second or third offenses.
Also, the 66,000 women who were raped and then became pregnant in the 6 week or fewer anti-abortion states. After a mandatory DNA test is administered and paternity is established, then automatically fine the rapist $10k per year as of the pregnancy date. (Of course that would be increased each year tied to COLA). If the baby is miscarried or due to an abortion, let the fine stand.
Many to most of these children are unwanted and raised by a single parent who has limited job opportunities in many cases. Child care for the children of rape in these states should be paid for by the state as well.
But, we're talking about Republicans here who have no interest in what happens to a baby once it is born.
Well part of the problem is the mistake that far too many people make: people think rape is about sex and male hormones. Rape is about violence, control and misogyny, period.
T L - You are correct. TFFG is a rapist - pure and simple. I cannot support a rapist, who was also indicted for many other crimes.
Just as I cannot support any religious group of people who reinforce the patriarchy. This includes the Catholic Church who allow their priests to rape children with impunity. Unless you count being relocated from one parish to another as punishment.
It also includes the 6 SCOTUS Republicans including Amy who belongs to a Catholic cult that supports the patriarchal view of the Catholic Church.
Republicans are ignoring SCOTUS rulings and if they grant immunity to the President, Biden is free to replace them. Damn the norms. He will have immunity to do as he pleases, just as TFFG will if he wins.
A former catholic, I agree.!
I will contribute to his legal fund
Pure and simple
yeah, that isn't the best way to describe violence towards women, is it? I think I fixed it--thank you.
That 66,000 number illustrates the RAPE problem in this country as well. My God why aren't people up in arms about that as well?
Currently on social media there is a piece going around about what women would choose to run into in the woods a man or a bear. What women are saying is not that they think they could outrun the bear, or the bear isn't scary, or that they wouldn't get killed by the bear. They are saying that the potential outcome of the bear attack is still far less frightening than what a man could do to them. Men are all bent out of shape that women are choosing the bear.
My wife has reinforced in me the difference between a man walking down the street at 10:00 pm and a woman doing the same. She would NEVER do that even in a small town. I have done that many times in cities with the highest crime rates in the US. It's not because I'm brave or that I'm stupid, men just aren't molested or mugged like women are.
This is one of the most unfair things in our society.
People of color face the same fears as most women and an undocumented person is likely as not to get deported if they are raped or mugged.
And the GOP claims they are the party of justice. They don't have a clue.
"The GOP claims they are the party of justice": Really?!? They're the party of taking away people's rights.
Donna, I found that thought experiment interesting as well. I, too, would choose a bear. Bears don’t attack people with anything like the frequency that men do. I saw one response along the lines of “I would choose the bear because if it attacked me, I wouldn’t be forced to carry its fetus to term.” Men’s responses to women’s choices have been illuminating to say the least.
Men often see part of their role in relationships as that of protector. I want men to ask themselves: from what are you protecting women? The answer is, of course, from other men.
Kit, that last paragraph is so, so accurate.
Donna, I've been following that as well. It is freaking amazing to watch the "bros" fall all over themselves decrying that.
Double like, Gary.
A Feminist majority in Congress might help. There a large number of women you will never be able to count on.
A Democratic majority gets you most of the way there.
I think so. A solid majority, even in red states, supports women's right to abortion. The big underlying question is whether or not we will continue to live in a democracy where majority opinion matters. The antics in the MAGA wing of Congress, orchestrated by Trump, are primarily directed at the goal of trying to convince the public that democracy can't function. We must show them that it can!
We have the capacity to sweep. Expand the base. Here in Baghdad By the Sea, abortion was all over the local news...except for the Miami Herald, Spanish language El Herald and las noticias.
In honor of the event, FB6, Fadems and partner groups sent 100,000 texts to nonregistered Floridians re abortion.
FT 6 has added Florida to its targeted states. Besides abortion, marijuana is on the ballot. FT 6 has a dedicated database and uses every outreach method possible (phone and text, postcard, email and targeted ad, and in-person too), to target new Democratic voters will make the most impact – in the most flippable states and districts.
https://www.fieldteam6.org/
And in a democracy, the more choices we have on the ballot the more democratic the election is.And a spoiler is one who lacks the ability to win himself and blocks another potential winner. Based on recent Zogby polling, that defines Biden as a spoiler.
Yes, but to address the responsibility of men on this issue, as well as recognizing women as full human beings, a Feminist Democratic majority will get you a lot closer.
I'd like a show of hands by legislators: Who among you has had a pregnancy terminated by abortion -- or pressured a woman to end a pregnancy when you were the father? If truth serum were administered in advance, a huge number of hands would be raised!
Women legislators have shared their stories, but not men. Another question might be: how many of you have fathered a child out of wedlock and paid your fair share of support to the mother?
Men can avoid exposure and behave sanctimoniously while passing restrictive legislation and avoiding parental responsibility.
Add to that who of you have forced yourself on a woman when she didn’t want to but you did?
@Gwen. Note that the Lysistrata by Aristophanes, was originally performed in Athens in 411 BCE.
WOW! Daniel, what a dramatic antecedent if not premonition of two of the major concerns, nay conflicts which plague our modern world! Now if old Aristophenes could have imagined the possibility of humans irreversibly altering, if not destroying, their own world we'd have a true trifecta for the plagues on mankind!
Let's start with viagra/cialis
It strikes me that enslavers and the forced birth people have a similar thought in mind--to deny people the right to their own body. Enslavers used skin color as a way to determine who should be enslaved. Forced birthers use sex as a way to deny women the right to their own bodies. Slavery was many magnitudes of horrible. All manner of rationalization was employed to justify slavery as all manner of rationalization is currently used to justify denying women needed healthcare. It has always been about white men having power and control over others.
YES!!!
This could tip the balance in favor of Democrats this November, more than counterbalancing the protest votes (or lack thereof) over Gaza. And then all manner of things could be set right. It is horrendous that women and girls must endure this outrage against their bodily autonomy. Let's use the anger to win.
Texas under Governor too stupid to not run during a thunderstorm Abbott has reduced prosecution of rape cases by 2/3. So, basically Texas has legalized rape and incest and made it illegal to receive women's health care.
This from the Dallas Observer-
https://www.dallasobserver.com/news/rape-kit-backlog-is-lower-in-dallas-but-the-work-isnt-complete-18182373
Masters was raped in her Dallas home in 1985 when she was 13. She waited for more than 20 years for her SAK to be processed before her case was finally reopened, only for the statute of limitations to have already passed. Her attacker went on to commit other rapes. For years prior to HB 8 becoming law, Masters campaigned for sexual assault kit reform, lobbying the state government and becoming an advocate for sexual assault victims.
"It's almost like men designed the system." John Fugelsang
"Fuck the patriarchy." Emma Watson
Gary, a simply APALLING miscarriage of law enforcement and justice!
OMG, that is horrible!
I’m sorry, this is fu^#*ng horrible. And why is always the goddamned WHITE males (won’t call them “men”) making these horrific laws? You couldn’t pay me to live in TX.
I mean no disrespect for the many white men who I know are good people.
Lots of video of jaw-dropping Republican asswholery.
Yes! Except it bothers me when I hear posts of women “20 something’s” who support trump.
I saw something on Ari’s show last night, a discussion about how people get their news and who they support. Interesting that the young “20 something’s” get their news from social media platforms versus people who get their news from sources such as newspapers and reliable reporting, support Biden.
Young people think things will improve with trump in office. Prices in the grocery and gasoline is what they are focusing on. If they read legitimate sources (from Robert Reich, HCR, Jay Kao) they would have a better understanding. But they call these sources fake news. I had a fiery discussion with my son last evening….. ugh.
My husband told me about a conversation he had with a 20-something co-worker recently. She gets all her news from social media and supports RFK Jr. Without criticizing her, he told her about a couple of key Biden initiatives, like the Inflation Reduction Act, and their impact. She listened with interest... he gave her something concrete to think about.
Yes. This issue that has universal impact and reflects the extreme views of a vocal minority should motivate voters. And then...add the details within Project 2025 and what could be better political ammunition in defense of human rights and democracy?
Hamas are the great oppressers of woomen requiring they wear trash bag like clothing to concear their bodies... Small Dinosaurs!
Interestingly, Gaza protest against Dems is not widespread among youth, according to anything I've read, and it's actually a small sample of universities where protests have been happening. On the GOP side of things, they're all for Israel.
It may not matter by Nov, the cretins are busy.
For those interested who have seen him in action in previous invasions of Substack, be aware that TrumpTroll "Frank Lee" is back. His purpose is to rile you up and play havoc with the conversations going on at the leading progressive/liberal Substacks.
TCinLA, thanks for rhe heads up.
Thanks for the warning. And what about the Putin envoy, Mr. John Sméagol? Is he still around?
Watch for him.
He'll be back. (that should be read in a Schwarzenegger voice, by the way)
Fortunately not like Ahhhnuld's Terminator.
:D
Thanks TC. I thought he'd died of COVID.
It would have been nice to include him among the morons who flunked Evolution's IQ test, but we weren't that lucky.
TC, thanks for the warning.
Thanks for the heads up, TC. Is he the one who claims to be a "social misfit"?
Yes, that's the one thing that's true that he says. He is indeed a "social misfit." You don't see any of us going over to their sites and pulling this crap.
Repubs never have a deficit of arses needing attention
They will seek us out and shoot ys
A six-week window for girls and women to become aware they are pregnant, visit a healthcare provider, and have the time necessary to consider their best path forward is literally absurd and a cruelty perpretrated by Republicans' insane obsession for power. Six weeks screams the Republicans' utter comtempt for females and the pleasure they take in hurting and mocking girls and women. This is insanity at its worst.
Exactly. Unless you are a 14-16 yr old girl who has gone through this, you can never understand the position these girls are in. They are terrified of how their parents will respond, they are terrified to ask anyone in their family for help, they have no money, and depending on where you live, you could be marked forever as a very bad person by that one action you took to protect your self and your life.
Jill Messick Ward, I agree we need to give minors options without parental consent when faced with parents not acting in the best interest of their daughter. My friend's family took a minor in and raised the 15 year old girl and her baby because her parents kicked her out of the house when they learned she was pregnant. They said it wasn't Christian-like behavior and God comes first, so they booted their scared daughter out and disowned her.
Other than money-changes, who did Jesus kick out? I'm not a "believer", but it has seemed to me that kindness was the key theme in what Jesus was preaching; and yet so much cruelty has been perpetrated in the name of religion. It makes no sense.
I was in a class last evening with make favorite dog training instructor. She tells us again and again to think about what the dog experiences, to try to provide what the dog needs to feel safe and feel good about doing what we want or need the dog to do. Person to person is different from person to dog, but empathy and understanding remain the best tools for a mutually beneficial relationship. Supremacy is crap, and in extreme forms becomes literally evil.
JL Graham, yes, love includes not excludes people. It seeks to understand not condemn others. Jesus and your dog trainer were/are good examples of love in action.
Yes, I am working on improving my own. At this point I indulge my distaste for sociopaths. I respect those who embrace even them; not the behavior, but the human being at the core.
And booted out their own infant grandchild, too. Godless.
MaryPat Sercu - MI, the story is even more unthinkable than what I posted. Decades ago, my friend's teenage neice was clear across the country visiting her dad as her parents were divorced. That's when her friend told her about being pregnant and that her parents were kicking her out "because God comes first in their house". My friend's neice phoned home to her mom to ask if the girl could come live with them. Her mom thought about it and then told her daughter yes, but only if she can speak to her friend's parents and they give their permission. The parents gave their permission to give their own daughter and soon to be grandchild to a woman clear across the country, they'd never met. Clearly, that was child neglect and insanity.
Yes, clearly that was child neglect and "Christian" insanity. The true Christian is your friend who took in the pregnant teenager.
Or as I like to call it, being "decent human beings."
Basically opposed to women's health, denying care, promoting misery, criminalizing ALL miscarriages.
Political sadism.
The pillory's too good for them.
Not to mention if it was a family member who got you pregnant.
A cruelty perpretrated by Republicans' insane obsession for power.
Let me count the ways.
JL Graham, to infinity.
And beyond!
And women must make 2 doctor visits, at least 24 hours apart before receiving an abortion in Florida. Our ballot initiatives have a high bar of 60%, but, even when they pass the legislature slow walk’s implementation and waters it down as much as possible. The will of the people be damned.
As for the Texas habit of judge shopping, they want their chosen judge not only to decide state cases, but, federal ones as well that affect all Americans. Their version of state’s rights appears to be heads I win, tails you loose.
If Texas, or any state, refuses to follow federal law, then federal funds should be withheld until they comply. It’s time to get tough and protect the Union.
Diane Love (St Pertersburg FL), my heart goes out to you and the people of FL for all the heartbreak to come. Tyranny is an awful thing. I hope the ballot proposal is overwhelmingly passed and R voters apply pressure to the legislature to honor the will of the people.
Texas. Exasperation. Can we give it back to Mexico, after all the good people relocate?
Cruelty is the point. Many men have a scapegoat for their indiscretions, while there is no downside to their actions. Who is going to point a finger at them? If they have no morals, they do the finger-pointing. The guilt is soon obvious and the results fall on one while the other is exonerated. That’s why they are so sure that God is a man.
Move to the South where rape isn't prosecuted and you can have mini-me's running around without any consequences. If a woman tries to abort your baby lock her and her doctor up!
Gary Loft, it's off the charts, egoic insanity/cruelty.
Worst, M Tree?
You forget the Arizona Territory law of 1864 that set the age of consent for girls to 10.
Thankfully, that law has now been repealed--2 Rs crossed party lines and voted with the Ds. Governor will sign
Phil Balla, true, it's hard to keep track of all the worsts. Learning of the 1864 law left me outraged.
Thank you for presenting this issue so clearly. Women (and the men who love them) need to realize the danger that these laws pose to anyone who can become pregnant.
Another side effect: a medical student who wants to specialize in obstetrics or gynecology will want to do their residency in a state that allows abortions so that they can be taught about that healthcare as well as associated procedures (like dilation and curettage D&C). It’s been shown that the majority of doctors choose to practice in the same state where they do their residencies. So, states outlawing abortions will have fewer obstetricians in the future.
https://www.google.com/url?q=https://www.ama-assn.org/medical-students/preparing-residency/after-dobbs-m4s-face-stark-reality-when-applying-residency&sa=U&sqi=2&ved=2ahUKEwj62puVpe6FAxXwkYkEHe2XCVUQFnoECBQQAQ&usg=AOvVaw30ZwvF3K0ctfdlBfnvSbNA
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5058583/
Yes, this is a very serious problem. This is basic and necessary female medical care that is no longer being given to women in a number of states. Here's the other problem: as a set of male medical students who want to into OBGYN it's very, very small. Less than 1%. There is a growing population a very competent mid-wives who could use some help with training and getting licensed in states not in only in New England.
Both nurse midwives and professional (formerly called "lay") midwives provide excellent, highly competent and supportive care for pregnant women all across this nation. CNM's have always been licenced, while professional credentials are more recent. They are all affected by these draconian and potentially deadly laws though.
https://www.nacpm.org/
Exactly, and it’s already happening. Established OBGYNs are leaving, medical students are changing their specialty, and fewer are moving here. The “unintended” consequences of these laws are devastating.
Doctors are treating pregnant people like unexploded ordnances, afraid treatment will blow up their careers. This was already a high risk career. So much for the joy of pregnancy.
There are many (post-menopausal) women who seek care from GYNs. Who will be treating them? It goes beyond pregnancy
How well I know Barbara. It took me months to get an appointment with a OB/GYN for suspected uterine cancer. Living with the uncertainty made me actually relieved when they finally diagnosed cancer. Then they acted quickly. And I have great insurance.
Or younger women with fibroids, endometriosis, and many other common female problems?
And there are way more of us than there are of them. It's hard to find post menopausal care in your 60's.
Unintended consequences also include the impact on the health and well-being of women dealing with unique situations like ectoptic pregnancies, nonviable fetuses, and so on. As if the men making these laws even understand women's anatomy!
They only know that tab p goes into slot v.
LOL
Brilliant🎯
Most men have no clue. And women who want to outlaw abortions have internalized sexism, thinking men will protect them.
If I had a daughter who wanted to get pregnant, I’d advise her to leave Florida for a state that would honor her rights and protect her in an emergency.
One wonders if they can even find the… well, you know what I mean (sorry I couldn’t help myself 😂)
Yes, it's an old, dirty history.
Yesterday's enslavers are today called justices on the Clarence court -- they just hate, hate, hate anyone being free when ancient stereotypes abound to which elites may consign millions of people to conform.
Yesterday's enslavers are called Republicans -- who hate, hate, hate anyone not packaged by our billionaires.
https://getpocket.com/explore/item/how-slavery-became-america-s-first-big-business
Thank you, J L for the link correcting some myths regarding the economics of U.S. slavery.
I think we all know, though need not respect, how economics evolve. Dark money in the hands of U.S. billionaires has grown, evolved, and brought in whole ancillary professions further to vaunt the billionaires.
See Frank Vogl's "The Enablers: How the West Supports Kleptocrats and Corruption -- Endangering our Democracy" and Oliver Bullough's "Butler to the World: How Britain Became the Servant of Tycoons, Tax Dodgers, Kleptocrats and Criminals."
Whole new industries have grown in America of the morally empty and the ethically constricted. Take the biz ed regimes that have so outstripped everything else across U.S. "higher" ed. They're the living dead who offshored those millions of former U.S. working-class jobs. Humanities crippled. So the fact that their economics techniques and strategies evolve doesn't impress me one bit.
The former U.S. working class who got their jobs offshored correctly see our elites as morally empty, ethically constricted, humanities crippled, living dead. But because humanities got so marginalized, silo-set-aside, and abandoned (like our former working classes) none has ever had access to the novels, memoirs, histories, films, and music which detail the damages. So all just generalize clumsily about our elites -- as if all morphed into one and the same glob.
A pathetic situation, J L -- one which will worsen until our schools throw off the billionaires, the dark money, and others such as the standardized testers who dig all deeper into inhumanity.
Inhumanity in so many pathetic versions.
Somehow I turned out to be a natural science nerd, but also an arts nerd. I love conversations with scientists, but more of my friends have been artists. I think science aims to approximate Kant's ding an sich. The arts address the human sentient experience. Of the two approaches, I think what we sensually experience makes us most human, (humanities?); but possession of a reasonably accurate map of how reality is put together, is immensely useful, and sometimes the key to survival.
J L -- nicest, of course, to balance, keep in some balance, the two you cite so well here.
This article explains a LOT. OMG. Will order book. Thank You, I think, JL.
ROEvember is coming!
Roevember!! A really catchy word!
I have heard anti-abortion advocates say that pregnancy is God given. Pregnancy is a human decision
Phil, I’ve heard those exact words said to an exhausted mother of 8 children by a parish priest. Five months later she died in childbirth, leaving her husband to raise all those children.
My mother wanted her tubes tied after five, and got that same sermon. The last of the five was the only one not born in the Catholic hospital - they wouldn't do the ligation that her doctor told her was necessary if she wanted to live. That's just one of the many reasons I stopped being a practicing Catholic decades ago.
50 years ago I had to have a D & C (side effect of being on the pill for ten years - my babies were born 15 months apart). "Why not just tie my tubes while I'm under anaesthetic?" I asked my reasonable young Australian doctor. "Certainly," he said, "I'll need your husband's written permission." Forget it, I said, and subjected myself to the painful indignity of an IUD.
Anne-Louise, I’ll bet that if your husband wanted his tubes tied, he wouldn’t have needed your signed permission. Grrr
I have a shrewd suspicion you might be right.
Did you eventually get your tubes tied, or did you get a new doctor?
My reply has vanished. If it doesn't surface, I'll send it again. It was another adventure story - that ended up in hospital under anaesthetic.
My daughter was born 5 years after my tubes were tied. My mother said it was my fault because each of my three sons were named (middle name) after a grandparent, but none after her. So my daughter's middle name is "Phelan"...
I'm sorry your husband wouldn't have given his written permission. IUD's suck and can cause damage.
Don't blame him - he never knew. Permission? Whose body?
James, same here.
American Catholicism. Christ and his gospel...
Any connections???
Not just connections, a tapestry.
Mary Hardt, to you and all the other women, Happy Day of the Goddesses. I read an article today that said that in Europe pre-christianity, May 1st was called Day of the Goddesses to celebrate the feminine. (It is now the 2nd but HCR's post is for the 1st, so I think it's okay to still celebrate.)
My French friends and I exchanged virtual sprigs of lily-of-the valley, which is customary in France on 1st May, which is also a full paid public holiday in Europe honoring the workers
M tree- We can celebrate all year if we want. Who is stopping us?
Mary Hardt, sad stuff, patriarchy and religion.
One in the same, I've noticed.
Not always, but yes, an awful lot.
Then is endomitiosis "God given"?
Yes-just punishment for original sin, and all that…
My parents raised me in the Unitarian-Universalist church and had not heard of "Original Sin" until I was about 8 years old.. It never made a bit of sense for me. If there is an "original sin" it's our urges to dominate others.
Grizzle Grizzle.
Karma
Phil, I wish more people would talk about the religious aspects of the abortion and bodily autonomy debate. Too much is left unsaid by most people.
[Edit: This piece runs long. It's after 3 am here between Milwaukee and Chicago. Maybe I can edit it down to half the present size later today.]
There are fundamental questions about the nature of the universe that must be decided by each individual human. In our system in the US, we have a large number of people who think of themselves, and refer to themselves, as Christians. Some, perhaps many, only understand a little about what it means to be a Christian -- judging by what they do, not by what they say. To be sure, many people have a thorough understanding of Christianity.
The First Amendment's purpose is to ensure that each citizen can make their own evaluation of whether or not God exists, and what to do about it either way. It is apparent that many of the people who oppose abortion also regard the Bible as literally true in all aspects. In their literal belief and understanding there are disembodied spirits, and souls, that enter and depart from the human body. Another popular belief is that God manipulates things in the world, and puts a particular soul into a particular body, or something like that, and there is a plan for that soul's life in the physical world. The belief goes back and forth, conveniently, that everything that happens is God's Will. However, we are quite certain that the children who were murdered at Sandy Hook Elementary School were not victims of God's Will.
For me, and for people who believe as I do, if there is a God, It does not operate that way. To do so would effectively completely remove our moral agency. We strive to do what is right and good. We want, and need, to be masters of our own destiny, to the extent possible. For those who believe that God plays an active role in the things that happen to us humans in this world, that's fine for them, but I don't want them to make laws for society that conform to their personal belief systems. This is why we need the separation of church and state. Those true believers can be forgiven for forgetting that there are other religions and belief systems. Many Christians firmly believe that their religion is the one true religion.
I'm not asking the true believers to conform their beliefs to what I believe. I'm only saying "You do you". Live the way you think is right. And allow me to live the way I think is right. I would venture to say that the First Amendment defines an important part of the "soul of America" -- freedom to worship, and believe, as we wish.
We could remind the Speaker Johnsons of the world that the separation of church and state protects their right to worship according to what they believe. It also protects me from being forced to conform my belief and practice to Speaker Johnson's estimation of what is going on in this universe. I would not want Speaker Johnson to force my daughter to conform to his version of reality. Her decision about what to do with her body should be her prerogative exclusively. If she were a believer in Buddhism or Cao Dai in Vietnam, she should be allowed to live according to what she believes.
The gray area exists around the point of viability. We all know that we DO want to be able to legislate morality. We don't want to tolerate murder. So the fundamental question is whether or not we as a society want to allow a woman to terminate her pregnancy if she wishes to do so, prior to the point of viability. If the pregnant woman does not believe in souls or disembodied spirits, it should be her right to decide whether or not to bring a child into this world. She might pray for guidance in the matter, following the advice of Jesus, alone in secret in her closet, where God listens to her prayer, and knows what is in her heart. In that same passage, we are warned not to act like the hypocrites, who stand on the public street corner and pray out loud, thereby hoping to be seen by their fellow citizens as pious. In that sense, Speaker Johnson is like the hypocrites, if he tells the young woman that she must bear the child. Speaker Johnson doesn't know God's will in the matter. For all we know, he (Johnson) may be like the hypocrites, hoping to be seen publicly to do "the right thing". Her relationship in this matter is between her and God. The Congress should not invade her privacy by forcing her to carry her pregnancy to full term. The Members of Congress must respect her relationship with God. If she doesn't believe in God, and wants to terminate her pregnancy, she should not be forced to conform her own beliefs to the will of other members of society who believe in a popular religion. That would be a violation of her rights as an American citizen under the First Amendment to the Constitution, popularly known as Separation of Church and State.
Thank you David. The separation of church and state was as important to the Founders as was the prevention of a monarchy. Their own history in Europe was rife with the horrors rendered by both. They might have have been guided by certain Christian values and traditions, but they were clearly informed by the centuries of Christian conflict and conflagration - slaughter and endless horrors brought on by religious intolerance.
The fact that we are actually having this conversation is a statement of the stubborn refusal of a minority of self righteous, self absorbed, bible thumping, arrogant monsters who are ignorant of the past and it's lessons. If there is a Hell (which is unlikely) there will be a special section for them where they will be lectured by people with completely different religious views. Since there are about 4000 religions on the planet, that would be sufficient to torture them for something close to eternity.
So conveniently, so many Christians leave Satan’s work out of the picture. Rape is not God’s work. Forcing a child or woman of any age to bear the child of a rapist is not God’s work. The choice !!! Satan is so much at work here and being rewarded by Trump and his Republican creepers!
Ah, but they DO believe that it is God, working in his "mysterious ways". Complete and utter carp.
What about the Jewish faith, who does not recognize a person as a person until they are born?
"...when they draw their first breath..." similar to the passage in Genesis when G*d breathed life into the man.
I consider that being Pro-Choice includes respecting a woman's relationship with her doctor, and also respecting her relationship with herself. Each woman will need to look at her values, and in many cases her relationship to the God of her understanding, or if she is not religious, her sense of right and wrong as a human being.
Yes. And believing mumbo jumbo nonsense from mythical sources of superstition is also a human decision and long tradition. Not to disparage anyone's belief system, but if one attempts to apply it to others, one should stick their beliefs where the sun doesn't shine.
If there is a magic man/woman in the sky, and it is benevolent, it would want us to procreate in a manner that is healthy, loving and positive. It would want children to be wanted. It would want babies to be born when they can be cared for properly - with adequate shelter, food, healthcare and education.. and love. No? God doesn't love us all equally?
So if you follow my logic, the magic sky thing that Republican anti-abortion extremists worship must be a diabolical devil demon entity that enjoys watching humans suffer.
Yep. The real position of 'Right to Life' founder Donald Wildmon was that unwanted pregnancies were a punishment from God. By the early '80s most people weren't buying this argument, so he rebranded and pretended to care about unborn children.
Knowing the religious basis for the anti-choice movement explains a lot. That's how they can be anti-abortion, anti-contraception, anti-education, etc. For them it's all about not interfering with God's will.
(Edit: when a rant about the nature and misperception of divinity elicits zero response, my instinct is to delete it. So that's what I've done, for general purposes.)
Republican pro-lifers aren't pro-life or pro-America! They're pro-power and control. Pro-self. Pro-guns that kill. Pro-laws that kill women with unsafe pregnancies. Pro-dictator. Anti-liberty. They are pro- laws that further their agenda. Anti-truth, anti-life anti-liberty, anti-justice, and anti- the pursuit of happiness ... unless it's their own. And yet, they are well positioned to overthrow our democracy and rule us all. It's sickening.
Sarah, that is the America THEY WANT, with all the hope of their stony hearts. With them, remember that cruelty is ALWAYS the point.
I am a bit surprised that Florida did not arrest Harris for speaking out/protesting their abortion law. If she encouraged any woman to leave the state, she may be seen as a conspirator.
That's next if democracy dies.
Here's an idea. You are a Mom/Dad of new first time voters. Talk them through "How to Vote" ie walk in, get your ballot, go to the booth and pick your choices, put your ballot into the voting machine, and leave. Offer to go with them a few times, then take them out to breakfast/lunch/dinner. Tell them you are proud of them for voting. After they have voted, discuss why you voted for who you did. Tell them voting is private, and they don't have to tell you who they voted for. They will tell you who they voted for and why. They will be proud of themselves because you approve of them for voting. Reinforce that voting is essential to our democracy. And that the only way to have voting is for ALL eligible voters to keep voting . Seems stupid, but if only older people are voting, Democracy dies. We have to get the young people on board when they can first vote, and let them know that their vote counts and that they have a HUGE say in how things go in the future. But only if they vote.
They have a huge say, but also a responsibility to make a choice that is just to ALL of the people. Typically the least privileged elements of society suffer most when we don't vote or make unwise choices. Equal protection under law. We should make it so.
Yup.
They would like to, but DeSantis runs the risk of having his house burnt down by a throng of furious women if he does that- and he knows it.
I'll say one more thing. As a survivor of early adolescent sexual assault, I cannot fathom how much more traumatized (long term) I would have been had I gotten pregnant abs been forced to bring that horrible man's offspring into the world. 13 year old "women" are GIRLS. Forced pregnancy... then the guy who did it should be forced to never have sex again, yep, cut it off, and have to pay for EVERYTHING. Even if that means enslaving him. God knows these criminals won't ever be accountable if they are not forced. Crazy for crazy. Can you even imagine if that was the price?
Thank you, Heather.
AMERICAN FASCISM
The Florida abortion ban epitomizes American fascism by prioritizing state control over individual liberties, specifically targeting women's bodily autonomy and healthcare decisions. The Florida abortion ban not only epitomizes American fascism by prioritizing state control over individual liberties but also echoes the authoritarianism of the Civil War-era Confederacy, alive in the 21st century, as it targets women's bodily autonomy and healthcare decisions. This aligns with historical state-centric tactics that erode federal protections for personal freedoms, reinforcing systemic oppression and inequality.
“and anyone helping a “runaway” could be imprisoned for six months and fined $1,000”.
Today, in Alabama, we have the 21st Century version of the Fugitive Act: the “Runaway Abortion Seeker Act”
Escaped the hell hole in '85. It's been all downhill for Florida since. With everything from hanging chads to book bans to an outright life-threatening attitude towards women, I do not see how it could get much worse. Oh, and I forgot the threatened water supply and the overcrowded roads - minor inconveniences, compared to the lack of humanity in the state government. And some of my friends still want to retire there. Go figure.
Florida is 2 states and should be divided into North and South. South Florida is essentially a Borough of New York City, generates the majority of tax revenues and anything worthy of note. North Florida is former Confederacy, really part of lower/slower Alabama and Georgia. As we say in Miami, 'the farther north you go, the farther south you get'. We in South Florida are fed up, disgusted and made miserable by north Florida, have been living for decades with the 'tyranny of the minority' the rest of country recently discovered with WBush and Trump. Only solution is to end gerrymandering, which Roberts court refused to do.
"Equal Justice Under Law" is engraved on the SCOTUS building. What is the relationship of gerrymandering to that??
South of Florida City sadly is not what it was, except possibly Key West. Yet those that want to not pave paradise are stymied by the state legislature who overrule them, or their voices are drowned out by transplants and idiots. As elsewhere they vote against their self interest.
My relatives who left Jacksonville a few years ago, referred to FL as "Baja Georgia".
James, don’t forget how hard it is to get house, windstorm or flood insurance.
Yes, it has become more difficult, as the insurance companies deal with global warming and the realization the state is really nothing but a big sandbar. Sinkholes and all.
If the states that have banned abortion really believe that abortion is wrong and all pregnancies should come to term, then where are their programs for pre-natal care, publicly funded child care, publicly funded child health care, child food programs, and child development programs. Upon examination this whole position seems to track some sort of Puritan thinking that seems to be aimed at punishing women for engaging in sex using arguments that seem to shout lofty notions such a right to life. Those on the right are constantly shouting about government regulation, however, they have no difficulty regulating the rights of women.
This is dead on. I've heard Evangelicals complain about Plan B because it allowed women to escape the consequences of their actions. There are almost certainly some people who honestly oppose abortion because they care about unborn children. But the actual members of the 'Right to Life' movement clearly have an agenda that doesn't match their claims.
Apparently, the Evangelicals haven't heard that the only reason a woman gets pregnant is that sperm is introduced at a time of fertility. That is to say, it isn't women that cause pregnancy, it is men. THEY should be the responsible party.
Hold the Florida Republican legislators who were involved in banning abortions accountable! Check this map for every Florida legislator: State House, State Senate, Congressional rep, Senator, Governor and State Attorney General, along with their contact details. It includes details on how to register to voter in Florida, check your Voter ID and details on Amendment 4 which is the ballot measure to restore abortion rights.
https://thedemlabs.org/2024/05/01/florida-republicans-ban-abortions-map-of-who-to-hold-accountable/