Ten more people in Boulder, Colorado, died yesterday, shot by a man with a gun, just days after we lost 8 others in Atlanta, Georgia, shot by a man with a gun.
And now the NRA has filed for bankruptcy? Is this true? And why (really)? Is this a "whole 'nother topic"? I found myself wishing it was part of this article
I have a good friend who made that connection - the Russian tap got turned off and the NRA dried up. Who else might dry up if Russia's spigot is closed off?
A former Russian Central Banker, Alexander Torshin ( a wanted man in Spain and Europe for all kinds of financial Crimes, Laundering, bribes, etc), with the help of Red Sparrow of an intelligence agent Maria Butina, infiltrate the NRA, with the disguise/cover as a foreign grad student and founder of an organization for a gun rights Russia that doesn't really exist, "Right to Bear Arms" of Russia. So, she is sleeping around with Republican donors and operatives like Paul Ericson-SD, and dirty old men to get both kompromat and to infiltrate the NRA leadership and donors, she is "eyes, ears, and insurance" to make sure Torshin's donations go to the right Republican PAC to the right Republican Candidates. Can you think of anything more sleezy, corrupt, unpatriotic, and illegal? Or is it legal for Foreigner's to donate to the NRA without disclosure and funnel to PACS of the NRA's choosing. As if that money doesn't come with strings attached. It really makes we wonder now about Joe Manchin's cozy relationship the NRA. Show me the money trail Senator Manchin, otherwise we know who owns your ass.
I think she became infamous for a bit of both. My impression isn't that she was seducing a bunch of NRA folks, more like being the attractive supporter in all the pictures they took. As I recall, she was working with Torshin.
I may get some flack for this, but I disagree with lowering the flag every time we have a mass shooting. It's like prayers and condolences from members of Congress and state legislatures yet nothing ever happens to fix the problem. It is meaningless and is like yelling fire until no one pays any attention. Why doesn't the Congress fund mental health initiatives instead? With a couple of thousand a day dying of COVID we should have the flag at half staff permanently. Let's celebrate the lives that will be saved if the Congress would get off its duff and do the right thing.
I don't mind lowering the flag; it's a sign of respect. What I do mind, a lot, is DOING NOTHING to limit violence through gun control. It's yet another instance where the GQP shows contempt for American opinion and public safety in appeasing its corporate donors.
and appeasing who else? Collecting data on gun violence would be most helpful; removing assault weapons would advance the cause; making high-capacity ammunition unavailable would be most helpful.
And not doing anything to stop it is a clear insult to those who paid the ultimate price. As an aside here .......it also helps in the UK that the local policeman is not himself a constant bearer of guns......like the people he is there to serve. Time to get back to the notion that our police forces are there to serve the people and not just the governments that employ them and pay them with our money.
Yes but demilitarize the gangs etc by the same token and concentrate a great deal more intelligence and intuition into their ranks and procedures and thus massively improve their effectiveness in protecting the people from those with criminal intent
The issue of militarized gangs has nothing to do do with mass shootings. Mass shooters are walking into gun shops/gun shows as allegedly law abiding citizens and buying weaponry designed to kill. They are not gang members. Mass shooters are the kid next door or the retiree or the disgruntled employee. Their targets are people going about their daily lives going to school, the movies, shopping, concerts, whatever.
Stuart, the word gang is code for a non-whites who commit group violence. I mean really, when was the last time you heard the word gang used when referring to a group of organized, violent whites And when the US, specifically, sanctions the general population owning assault weapons how are you going to demilitarize a "gang"? Or the "God fearing", homeschooling, survivalist "family" (gang) armed to the teeth? Or the Proud Boys (gang), The 3 Percenters. (gang)? Or the Bundy family (gang).
What the US says is this: if you're white and a member of a private militia/group (gang) you can own any weapon you want. If you're a white individual, even one with a history of mental illness or violence, you can own any weapon you want. Don't tell me what laws are on the books because they're not being enforced. And honest to God, after all this time, don't you think US Americans could face the truth about ourselves as a culture?
We also need to come to terms with the media's (including the internet) use of violence and constant killing in our entertainment venues. Those of us in the psych fields, particularly with adolescents in the past 25 years, have seen epic rises in mental health issues— depression, anxiety, self-harm, mental cruelty towards each other and suicide rates sky-rocketing. The damaging effects on families and addictions. Our youth are needing to be medicated, or self-medicate to live on this planet. We need systemic change [everything].
We do need change. We live in a time where violence has become rationalized and accepted as just a part of life. Except if course when it boils over. And in your field you see the impact at a granular level.
Perhaps we notice it more when the rise is among adolescents because youth should be a hopeful time - but I think (with no stats or articles to prove this - pure gut feeling) the constant news of violence and killing is damaging us all. I know that among my own friends (old folks) self-medication has been necessary since our own youths. Today's Letter reminds me of how much we have slid backward since the Reagan years. Certainly, there was a lot of historic and continuing racism before that time, so I'm not trying to put any kind of MAGA spin on the past, but the Movement Conservatives have spread the abuse to just about everyone not in the upper echelons of their corporate dream world. Man, I'm depressed today - along with many of you, I know!
Penelope, I guess I should have read through this entire thread before posting my comments on the differences between British and American TV shows.........😊
Daria I would also add that the overwhelming majority of killings in these situations are of women and girls. Women and girls are targeted in spousal murder in overwhelming numbers as well. The only time the "balance" between male and female dead occurs is when the shooter is just randomly opening fire, as occurred in Las Vegas for instance. And yet that is not part of the conversation.
Gun shows were invented long before assault rifles, by a treasured culture of hunters and sportspeople (okay, men). Ban assault rifles. Go back to the NRA's original goal of promoting safety.
Not sure that a Dislike option is a good idea. It allows us to express a wider range of views more succinctly. But it also increases negativity and tends to promote bickering or ad hominem remarks. LFAA discussions are admirably civil compared to other fora; we don't want to lose that.
I entirely agree Daria but i was trying to find a succinct way of expressing the daily grind of the police officer. Mass shootings are more and more frequent of course for the reasons that you evoke but they are hardly in the daily experience of the individual policeman. The influence that the issue has on his daily routine is fear, fear of what reaction he'll get from the family quarrel that has been reported or the store getting robbed never mind reports of wifebeating.
I understand what you're saying. And I understand that a law enforcement officer faces potential danger every time they go on shift. In fact, right before Christmas, a dear friend's son in law was shot in the face during a routine traffic stop. He is recently back on the job. If I believed in such things I'd say it's a miracle. The issue is this: unbridled, uncontrolled "legal" gun ownership. And not one or two guns but dozens of guns. Frankly, I think mass shootings in the US, depending on what definition one uses, are far more prevalent than you imagine.
Another option is to make a distinction between situations that require armed police - like dealing with active shooters - and all the tasks now delegated to police that could better be done by unarmed persons trained for the task: helping people who are homeless, or having a mental health crisis, or driving with a broken tail light. Split off all the second type. It’s already done in many suburbs and it works well.
I couldn’t agree more. Jobs that no one wants to do have been dropped onto the police. Many calls the police get are really mental health calls. Police should not have to deal with those calls. The police should not be outfitted like a military force either. Police are not meant to go to war with citizens. None of these reforms can take place without a good government, training, money and lots of time and patience. But who has patience anymore?
exactly. The police de-militarized. Re-frame policing to advocacy and protectors rather than offensive forces.
And mental health professionals to address mental health issues.
Cops, by and large, are full of fear. [Sorry, Ally, but, you know, white male fragility] Re-educate toward community work, safety education, poverty elimination, resident in community.
Perhaps they feel that being a "gang member" says something about their character that they don't need in their shop to promote internal harmony and cohesion.
Yes, but my understanding of how the police became militarized is that a small number of men robbed a bank somewhere in Southern California, likely near Los Angeles, in the late 1970s, but I could be off by half a decade(?). when the police arrived with the robbery still in progress, they found themselves massively outgunned. The result was the beginning of the rapid growth of SWAT teams. The increasing militarization is likely the cause of further distancing in attitudes between police and civilians. The first SWAT teams, likely not called that then, date back to the 1960s and drug gangs, but what exists now seems almost a whole new culture.
This may be sort of off topic, but not entirely, as it speaks to cultures. I watch a lot of British TV mysteries and what could be characterized as crime shows, I guess (Unforgotten, Shetland, etc.), and one thing that I find jarring when I then see American cop shows is that in American TV, they are ALWAYS running forward, guns drawn, or rolling a vehicle or blowing something up. In British shows, you almost never even SEE a gun, let alone garish explosions and such. Apparently, seeing things blown up, shot up, burned up, is what American audiences want. Not this audience. Give me a plot line that makes sense and forget the pyrotechnics, thank you.
Sandra I am also a fan of British cop shows and I love the fact that they are focused less on violence being met by more violence, as in US cop shows. However, they are just as fictional as US cop shows. Alas. The British Constabulary is racist, sexist, prone to violence, and they feel enormously entitled. The fact that most are not licensed to carry firearms is a good thing because I would fear what a British beat cop might do if he were allowed to carry, especially in cities (Manchester, Leeds, Bradford, Liverpool, Bristol . . .) where there are large immigrant populations pitted against financially straitened white working class residents. The stalking, abduction, and murder of a woman in South London by a London cop, which happened a couple weeks ago and precipitated a series of mass demonstrations that the government is all het up about (because, y'know, women being uppity makes British men super nervous), is shocking but I suspect also not all that unusual: British cops are just as prone to corruption and abuse as US cops.
Linda, for sure, people are people everywhere. I was painting in broad strokes, obviously. And yes, on both sides of the Pond, they are fiction. No doubt the fiction of believing the British are more 'civilized' has been proven wrong multiple times over, especially as more of the truth of colonialism has come to the fore. I'm sure the prejudices that seem more prevalent now have always been there. What, perhaps, has changed is the extent to which they are tolerated or even encouranged.
In US cop/detective shows EVERYBODY has a weapon (good guys and bad guys). Most of the British shows I watch don't seem to "give" a weapon to both sides...as I remember
I agree with your POV. I also read very little US Crime/Mystery fiction for the same reason. I'm not saying that "offshore" crime/mystery fiction is glib and lovely but I find much of it better conceived and better written. Maybe I'm a snob though...
We have a Congress that has been infiltrated by some members who have never known what it is to be loyal to this country. Money and power continues to be what influences them. It is a pretty simple equation and a very old one.
Our police forces are very militarized and need to return to the days of protect and serve. That sentiment encompasses all that a community police force needs to motivate them in every small town and large city in the United States.
They used to be called Peace Officers in my hometown of 7,000 in the 1950s. I e often wondered if the loss of so many men in WWII had anything to do with the crime rate after the war.
The Republicans in Congress DO NOT want government to work for ordinary people. During the past 4 years, they passed tax cuts and confirmed judges and very little else. They do not care about regular people except at election time. We are talking about people who would not take up meaningful gun legislation after small children and teachers were murdered in Sandy Hook. Legislation that helps ordinary people does not get support from the “Haves” party, which currently uses the name Republican.
Lowering the flag is simply a gesture of condolence from America. It has no political meaning. Communities often offer food, cards, flowers to neighbors grieving for the loss of a loved one. It is not much, but it simply says America and our neighbors care about your sorrow. Let's not pummel such gestures of condolence. Let it be.
Let's send the families flowers then or a personal note from their representative. Lowering the flag every time a mentally ill gunman sneezes dilutes any sense of sincere condolences from my perspective.
And today I'm wondering if we are also in a state of perpetual PTSD. I find myself now thinking the awful "what if" I go to the grocery store and I see someone in the parking lot carrying a "long gun." That's as much a part of my current reality as I felt the first time I entered a theater after Aurora and the first time I gathered with others (pre-pandemic) for a concert after Las Vegas. And why I don't feel safe anywhere - church, restaurants, stores, walking down the sidewalk, driving under an overpass, etc. It's not just Covid; it's because of where I live and all the open carry white supremacists here...white men wearing fatigues driving pickup trucks with oversized wheels, waving their confederate flags. Before the pandemic, I had returned from the grocery and a friend was helping me unload the bags out of my car when we heard a series of blasts about a block away. He, being a Marine and recognizing the sound instantly, pushed me down and then dragged me into the house and told me to shelter away from windows. That's my life now; always being on "alert" for the possibility that someone else will go off "half cocked" as they say. It's like living on the edge while being "safe" inside one's own home.
To do nothing would be worse. At least the acts are recognized and it serves to remind the radical gun rights people this is a result of their insistence in allowing anyone to own a weapon of mass destruction.
Not to say that funding mental health initiatives is bad, because I'm certainly all in favor of doing more for people wrestling with mental health issues, but I feel it's not relevant. We talk about mental health when we have another and yet another mass shooting ad infinitum because we are unwilling or incapable of talking about guns. Sorry to borrow the bromide, but mental health problems don't kill (other) people --with rare exceptions-- guns kill people.
People wrestling with mental illness are far less dangerous to others than the general public, statistically.
That said, it is fascinating that we elect folks to Congress who do not enact workable solutions to a uniquely American problem, the misuse of guns. These mass murders are predictable and they not only have in common that their perpetrators are almost universally white men but that they are universally carried out by gunfire. What do we not 'get' about that reality?
Yes, my motto right now is "Re-elect No One". If they aren't going to do anything or the don't work well with others to come up with solutions, they shouldn't be there. I do have a few exceptions to this motto, but none of them have an R by their name even if I would vote for them personally. I'm not voting for anyone supporting the Republican party at any level in government as long as it is the party of hate, violence, lies, etc etc.
Yes, I agree with you. We need both. Assault weapons and its ammunition is meant to kill, nothing less. Also, as Heather pointed out, if we read the Constitution as originalists "bear arms" means be part of a well-regulated militia. The gun manufacturers wouldn't even spend a nickel on a known trigger problem allowing the gun to fire when unintended that killed several people including children but they'll spend millions and millions on lobbying the Congress to do nothing. I'd like states to start requiring insurance on guns like we do for automobiles... and make assault weapons unaffordable. Our country as a whole needs some lessons in mental wellness with all the people gullible to conspiracy theories, etc. There is, also, helping men feel better about themselves so they don't have to carry a big weapon so they don't feel small in other ways. At least with President Biden, he is sincere about his condolences to people.
It’s societal mental health at issue not that of individuals. I struggle to put words together in the way so many excel at here in this forum, but we need to pay far more attention to experts who have studied these things. I’m not the historian or academic, as so many are here, and so I may just be less informed, but I find myself wondering why there is not more mention of work done by Robert Jay Lipton, William Reich, the field of psychohistory (“Psychohistory derives many of its concepts from areas that are perceived to be ignored by conventional historians and anthropologists as shaping factors of human history, in particular, the effects of parenting practice and child abuse.[2] According to conventional historians "the science of culture is independent of the laws of biology and psychology".[3] and "[t]he determining cause of a social fact should be sought among social facts preceding and not among the states of individual consciousness".[4]
Psychohistorians, on the other hand, suggest that social behavior such as crime and war may be a self-destructive re-enactment of earlier abuse and neglect; that unconscious flashbacks to early fears and destructive parenting could dominate individual and social behavior.[5][6]”-from Wiki
And I would add there is very good work being done today (Bruce Perry to name just one) on the way towards a healthier society. We can also go all the way back to Margaret Mead’s study of indigenous cultures. There are many here in this community that have given voice to the way forward being thru love. People bathed in love as children cannot fathom the impoverishment and abuse that many children are dealt in their formative years unless they see it up front and in their face.
Did Trump have a mental “illness” or is he mentally unwell? I think we are justifiably sensitive about the label of “ mental illness”, but I feel like we have to find the words and ways to converse about how we get to a more humane humanity and Trump and friends are humanely unwell. I have to say I’m pretty confident that problem lies within their brains, so what else should we call it. An earnest question.
My wife says poking these issues is like poking a fire ant hill. We are all about to get stung. I see this as the ultimate death struggle in zero sum gamesmanship. The Republican leadership will use this issue to fill their coffers and reinvigorate their dying culture. What a sad way to spend our time.
The most effective way to kill fire ants is to use the two-step method: baiting and mound drench. The first step involves using bait to kill the queen and other worker ants deep in the colony. The second step is to use insecticide for targeted treatments on the mounds.
Lowering the flag without accomplishing any gun safety, while using political and government power to protect an increasingly violent gun culture and industry is more propaganda and misinformation. Our courts don't offer any protection when Americans try to hold those who proliferate guns responsible for their participation. The tobacco industry was not given this kind of protection.
The flag was never meant to accomplish gun safety. Lowering the flag is a gesture of respect for the bereaved. Don’t overshadow the purpose of lowering the flag with a political purpose. Not to object to your point, though. That should be addressed, just not by the lowered flag.
I hear ya, Cathy, but I disagree. Symbols are important. But we need more symbols and more ceremonies that display and share our grief for the loved and lost. We need a national act of solidarity with the victim's families. We need a collective act of sorrow for the lost; and to demonstrate our collective disgust for the NRA and those elected leader's who profess we can not do anything about gun violence. We need bigger, not smaller symbols and ceremonies to force the change we deserve.
Yes, I hear you. Asian-Americans felt like they were finally a recognized group with the flag at half staff for the mass shooting in Georgia. What are we going to do when nothing is being done and the flag is at half staff every day with a mass shooting? Just leave it down all the time? Is the country going to be in mourning all the time? Depressing.
My favorite quote of Wallace Stegner's (or, one of my favorite quotes of his) is, I suspect, one of his least quoted: "When the West fully learns that cooperation, not rugged individualism, is the quality that most characterizes and preserves it, then it has a chance to create a society to match its scenery."
Without local cooperation they wouldn't have survived in the West; the "indian" wars, their agricultural inanities and the climate would have driven them back across the Mississippi. An excellent example of what happens without that sense of "being in this together" are the early attempts at settlement on the James River in Virginia where each scion of wealthy English families was in it for himself and not there to ensure that the community had food to eat. Counter examples of how "cooperation" saved the very lives of the new communities can simply be found in the cooperation accorded the "pilgrim" settlements in New England where they died of hunger without the Native population feeding them......think on that the next time you celebrate Thanksgiving!
Everything is so tied up in big money. I think I know how the commoners felt under the lords and ladies of old; powerless. And to know that this is one more thing we can tie to the legacy of Ronald Reagan?Trickle-down economics, demolished social safety nets, and unfettered rights to own and carry guns; all are weapons of mass destruction in terms of the harm they have caused.
Heather's review of the history of gun ownership in America, the Second Amendment, the NRA, etc. pretty much corresponds with what I remember. For me the most disturbing part of the story is how the gun industry and the NRA and movement conservatives managed to convince even the SCOTUS that the clear English in the Second Amendment is about personal gun rights, not about a well-regulated Militia being necessary to the security of a free State. Clearly the right to a gun was dependent on the need for the militia, which made sense when the USA did not maintain a standing army. Well, now we have a standing army (big time), and no need whatsoever for private individuals to have guns or "bear" arms, as intended by the founders.
The most frustrating thing about this issue is how easy it should be to find a working compromise, but the Right has always used its slippery slope argument that somehow sensible gun laws would infringe on the rights of law-abiding hunters and fearful people wanting to keep a small revolver in the bedside table for home defense. This is clearly not true, both could be accommodated while making mass murders with semi-automatic M-16 clones extremely difficult to accomplish, especially by deranged young men.
David I agree, but I do disagree with calling these men "deranged." They are acculturated to believe that "having a bad day" is a reasonable excuse to go on a killing spree. Moreover, BIPOC who own guns are far more likely to be killed by the police, who consider the 2nd Amendment to refer only to white people, than to be coaxed away from the killing fields and treated with kid gloves, as occurred in Georgia and, even if wounded, in Boulder. It most certainly occurred in Wisconsin when the teenager (who should not have owned a gun in the first place) killed protestors--and is now being hailed as a hero by the Trumpista Party and other despicables. I am not using their names, btw, because that gives these poster children for toxic masculinity a platform.
Way back in 2002, Michael Moore's film Bowling for Columbine produced a statistic: there are far more guns in Canada per capita than in the USA. Yet the number of homicides in Canada, the number of mass shootings, the killing of (usually female) spouses and children is a fraction--even per capita (taking into account the smaller population overall)--than in the USA. The question is not why is Canada equally awash with guns but not awash with mass murders. The question is why the USA and its alleged legislators (I refuse to call these grotesqueries who occupy so many public offices in the US anything more than alleged) have normalized the idea that mass murder, spousal murder, child killing are all merely the "reasonable" fallout for the "right to bear arms."
We are clearly on the same side of this issue and I agree our racist, misogynist and pervasively violent American culture - such as it is - contributes to the likelihood that a few of our young men will become deranged, take advantage of the ease with which almost anyone can purchase the semiautomatic equivalent of an M16 ( the military version can be fired on automatic) and express their derangement by killing a lot of people very quickly. Having learned to shoot an M 16 back in basic training in 1972, I am actually surprised that the young man in the Boulder King Soopers was only able to kill 10 people and not 20 or 30; that's how deadly these $500 weapons are. In fact, considering how many military-style weapons are floating around in our society, and how many unhappy people in our winner-take-all-screw-the-hindmost economy there must be, It surprises me we do not have even more mass killing than we do.
Of course I agree with you that our police tend to summarily kill BIPOC in the kind of situations in which they make an effort to arrest Whites, that our society is shot through with - in fact, founded on - racism, misogyny, xenophobia and unwarranted feelings of cultural superiority (otherwise known as exceptionalism) and that the Trumpistas appear to revel in it .
I also agree that "Bowling for Columbine" gives important insight into the USA's gun problem and is an excellent documentary film, but gun laws have become stricter in Canada since 2002 in response to an increase in gun violence there, too. Nevertheless, it continues to be a far less violent and more democratic country than ours.
In any case, when I use the word "derangement" I am not thinking of someone who is merely having a bad day (however you want to define it) but more of someone who is living in an unimaginable existential black hole and who sees no alternative but to commit suicide and, unfortunately, make a statement and be remembered. I doubt any of these killers thinks of his own problem(s) as simply a bad day, and I imagine the police spokesman in Atlanta who suggested this was the case for last week's mass murderer has heard from his superiors, if not been fired. At least I hope so.
I saw the film almost 20 years ago so I cannot remember the numbers he used, but he did have solid stats on this AND he interviewed a bunch of Canadians (including gun owners) about what it was that made Canada different in their opinion. It was one of the most interesting parts of the film for me--obviously, since it has stayed with me for 20 years!
This whole attempt to convince Americans of the “right” of toddlers to shoot their siblings dead (“tragic but you can’t limit guns”)has been an effective attack in the very sanity of this country.
TYPO ALERT: Printz was 1997, as I have corrected it, not 1991, as I just this second sent out. Sorry about that!
And now the NRA has filed for bankruptcy? Is this true? And why (really)? Is this a "whole 'nother topic"? I found myself wishing it was part of this article
Yes, they are trying to escape consequences in the corruption investigation of them in NY.
Yes, they have. It's easily searchable. They plan on moving their HQ to Texas.
Let’s not forget the NRA’s Russian funding off DJT during the 2016 election, or Maria Butina either. Millions and millions of dollars poured in.
I have a good friend who made that connection - the Russian tap got turned off and the NRA dried up. Who else might dry up if Russia's spigot is closed off?
A former Russian Central Banker, Alexander Torshin ( a wanted man in Spain and Europe for all kinds of financial Crimes, Laundering, bribes, etc), with the help of Red Sparrow of an intelligence agent Maria Butina, infiltrate the NRA, with the disguise/cover as a foreign grad student and founder of an organization for a gun rights Russia that doesn't really exist, "Right to Bear Arms" of Russia. So, she is sleeping around with Republican donors and operatives like Paul Ericson-SD, and dirty old men to get both kompromat and to infiltrate the NRA leadership and donors, she is "eyes, ears, and insurance" to make sure Torshin's donations go to the right Republican PAC to the right Republican Candidates. Can you think of anything more sleezy, corrupt, unpatriotic, and illegal? Or is it legal for Foreigner's to donate to the NRA without disclosure and funnel to PACS of the NRA's choosing. As if that money doesn't come with strings attached. It really makes we wonder now about Joe Manchin's cozy relationship the NRA. Show me the money trail Senator Manchin, otherwise we know who owns your ass.
https://www.argusleader.com/story/news/politics/2018/07/18/maria-butina-connected-south-dakota-man-russia-nra/795796002/
https://www.npr.org/2019/05/10/721763041/exclusive-documents-detail-meetings-of-russians-with-treasury-federal-reserve
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aleksandr_Torshin
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maria_Butina
https://www.npr.org/2019/05/10/721763041/exclusive-documents-detail-meetings-of-russians-with-treasury-federal-reserve
Alexander Torshin.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-44865626
My brother is very upset about their moving. He got great pleasure in giving the middle finger every time he drove past the building to and from work!
Of course, his finger must have developed arthritis or some such thing.
Have to move since state of New York moved to dissolve NRA.
https://apnews.com/article/us-news-new-york-state-courts-lawsuits-coronavirus-pandemic-57bf4d7b3c2ba58d719ad85cc11fb024
They could have dissolved and gone into the dark night while they looked for more dark money!
https://www.cnbc.com/2021/01/15/nra-files-for-bankruptcy-says-it-will-reincorporate-in-texas.html
Let's take over the NRA and keep it in Washington? Or Alaska? Or New Hampshire? Or Nevada? Ha, or maybe Delaware?
Put the NRA where it belongs -- in a Russian oblast.
They are in bed with Putin anyway. See Maria Butina.
Ignore the sex ( maria butina) follow the Money (Alexander Torshin)
I think she became infamous for a bit of both. My impression isn't that she was seducing a bunch of NRA folks, more like being the attractive supporter in all the pictures they took. As I recall, she was working with Torshin.
I would have claimed the "1" was just a poorly typed "7". ;-)
No worries
SUBSTACK NEEDS AN EDIT FUNCTION!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I thought so too, but it makes us a little more reflective and disciplined to proof read ourselves, & not rely on the spell checker so much!
I may get some flack for this, but I disagree with lowering the flag every time we have a mass shooting. It's like prayers and condolences from members of Congress and state legislatures yet nothing ever happens to fix the problem. It is meaningless and is like yelling fire until no one pays any attention. Why doesn't the Congress fund mental health initiatives instead? With a couple of thousand a day dying of COVID we should have the flag at half staff permanently. Let's celebrate the lives that will be saved if the Congress would get off its duff and do the right thing.
I don't mind lowering the flag; it's a sign of respect. What I do mind, a lot, is DOING NOTHING to limit violence through gun control. It's yet another instance where the GQP shows contempt for American opinion and public safety in appeasing its corporate donors.
It is hollow respect when they don't do anything.
Hollow indeed, in truth it is pathetic.
I posted this elsewhere, pardon the repetition: https://www.cbsnews.com/video/olivia-munn-speaks-out-on-anti-asian-racism-importance-of-representation-in-hollywood/
Listen to the exchange about lowering the flag starting at about 1:51.
and appeasing who else? Collecting data on gun violence would be most helpful; removing assault weapons would advance the cause; making high-capacity ammunition unavailable would be most helpful.
And not doing anything to stop it is a clear insult to those who paid the ultimate price. As an aside here .......it also helps in the UK that the local policeman is not himself a constant bearer of guns......like the people he is there to serve. Time to get back to the notion that our police forces are there to serve the people and not just the governments that employ them and pay them with our money.
Yes. Demilitarize the police and divert some resources to community efforts to help people.
Yes but demilitarize the gangs etc by the same token and concentrate a great deal more intelligence and intuition into their ranks and procedures and thus massively improve their effectiveness in protecting the people from those with criminal intent
The issue of militarized gangs has nothing to do do with mass shootings. Mass shooters are walking into gun shops/gun shows as allegedly law abiding citizens and buying weaponry designed to kill. They are not gang members. Mass shooters are the kid next door or the retiree or the disgruntled employee. Their targets are people going about their daily lives going to school, the movies, shopping, concerts, whatever.
Stuart, the word gang is code for a non-whites who commit group violence. I mean really, when was the last time you heard the word gang used when referring to a group of organized, violent whites And when the US, specifically, sanctions the general population owning assault weapons how are you going to demilitarize a "gang"? Or the "God fearing", homeschooling, survivalist "family" (gang) armed to the teeth? Or the Proud Boys (gang), The 3 Percenters. (gang)? Or the Bundy family (gang).
What the US says is this: if you're white and a member of a private militia/group (gang) you can own any weapon you want. If you're a white individual, even one with a history of mental illness or violence, you can own any weapon you want. Don't tell me what laws are on the books because they're not being enforced. And honest to God, after all this time, don't you think US Americans could face the truth about ourselves as a culture?
Dang, Daria. Truth.
We also need to come to terms with the media's (including the internet) use of violence and constant killing in our entertainment venues. Those of us in the psych fields, particularly with adolescents in the past 25 years, have seen epic rises in mental health issues— depression, anxiety, self-harm, mental cruelty towards each other and suicide rates sky-rocketing. The damaging effects on families and addictions. Our youth are needing to be medicated, or self-medicate to live on this planet. We need systemic change [everything].
We do need change. We live in a time where violence has become rationalized and accepted as just a part of life. Except if course when it boils over. And in your field you see the impact at a granular level.
Perhaps we notice it more when the rise is among adolescents because youth should be a hopeful time - but I think (with no stats or articles to prove this - pure gut feeling) the constant news of violence and killing is damaging us all. I know that among my own friends (old folks) self-medication has been necessary since our own youths. Today's Letter reminds me of how much we have slid backward since the Reagan years. Certainly, there was a lot of historic and continuing racism before that time, so I'm not trying to put any kind of MAGA spin on the past, but the Movement Conservatives have spread the abuse to just about everyone not in the upper echelons of their corporate dream world. Man, I'm depressed today - along with many of you, I know!
Penelope, I guess I should have read through this entire thread before posting my comments on the differences between British and American TV shows.........😊
"It (NRA) backed ... parts of the 1968 Gun Control Act, designed to stop what seemed to be America’s hurtle toward violence in that turbulent decade."
That would be when the Black Panther Party took up firearms to protect themselves and the black community.
Bingo. Because you can't have Black Americans protecting themselves and their communities.
Here is a source on that:
https://www.history.com/news/black-panthers-gun-control-nra-support-mulford-act
Daria I would also add that the overwhelming majority of killings in these situations are of women and girls. Women and girls are targeted in spousal murder in overwhelming numbers as well. The only time the "balance" between male and female dead occurs is when the shooter is just randomly opening fire, as occurred in Las Vegas for instance. And yet that is not part of the conversation.
I agree 100%.
Why are gun shows even allowed anymore? As far as I know we don’t hold annual poison fairs.
Gun shows were invented long before assault rifles, by a treasured culture of hunters and sportspeople (okay, men). Ban assault rifles. Go back to the NRA's original goal of promoting safety.
Perhaps we could consult Socrates about that one.
Unless you’re not counting deep fried ice cream:)
Good question.
We need a reply icon for "agree and don't like it".
Not sure that a Dislike option is a good idea. It allows us to express a wider range of views more succinctly. But it also increases negativity and tends to promote bickering or ad hominem remarks. LFAA discussions are admirably civil compared to other fora; we don't want to lose that.
Agree.
“Face the truth about ourselves...? Now that would be revolutionary.
I entirely agree Daria but i was trying to find a succinct way of expressing the daily grind of the police officer. Mass shootings are more and more frequent of course for the reasons that you evoke but they are hardly in the daily experience of the individual policeman. The influence that the issue has on his daily routine is fear, fear of what reaction he'll get from the family quarrel that has been reported or the store getting robbed never mind reports of wifebeating.
I understand what you're saying. And I understand that a law enforcement officer faces potential danger every time they go on shift. In fact, right before Christmas, a dear friend's son in law was shot in the face during a routine traffic stop. He is recently back on the job. If I believed in such things I'd say it's a miracle. The issue is this: unbridled, uncontrolled "legal" gun ownership. And not one or two guns but dozens of guns. Frankly, I think mass shootings in the US, depending on what definition one uses, are far more prevalent than you imagine.
A lot of White people Need to look at themselves in the Mirror, and Ask themselves some Very Important questions!!!
AND BE HONEST with themselves!!!!!🤔😣
I find I need to do that over and over again as I learn.
Yes.
Daria, you rock! Beautifully put.
Thanks, Linda!
Morning, Daria...and YES, ma'am!!
Morning, Lynell!
Truth!
Thank you, Daria.
The Lone Ranger, but modern versions
Another option is to make a distinction between situations that require armed police - like dealing with active shooters - and all the tasks now delegated to police that could better be done by unarmed persons trained for the task: helping people who are homeless, or having a mental health crisis, or driving with a broken tail light. Split off all the second type. It’s already done in many suburbs and it works well.
I couldn’t agree more. Jobs that no one wants to do have been dropped onto the police. Many calls the police get are really mental health calls. Police should not have to deal with those calls. The police should not be outfitted like a military force either. Police are not meant to go to war with citizens. None of these reforms can take place without a good government, training, money and lots of time and patience. But who has patience anymore?
exactly. The police de-militarized. Re-frame policing to advocacy and protectors rather than offensive forces.
And mental health professionals to address mental health issues.
Cops, by and large, are full of fear. [Sorry, Ally, but, you know, white male fragility] Re-educate toward community work, safety education, poverty elimination, resident in community.
AND so important, the ability to see & UNDERSTAND the difference!
Intelligence plus intuition. Excellent combination.
There wouldn’t be so many gangs if there were more good paying employers who would not hire gang members.
Perhaps they feel that being a "gang member" says something about their character that they don't need in their shop to promote internal harmony and cohesion.
Yes, but my understanding of how the police became militarized is that a small number of men robbed a bank somewhere in Southern California, likely near Los Angeles, in the late 1970s, but I could be off by half a decade(?). when the police arrived with the robbery still in progress, they found themselves massively outgunned. The result was the beginning of the rapid growth of SWAT teams. The increasing militarization is likely the cause of further distancing in attitudes between police and civilians. The first SWAT teams, likely not called that then, date back to the 1960s and drug gangs, but what exists now seems almost a whole new culture.
This may be sort of off topic, but not entirely, as it speaks to cultures. I watch a lot of British TV mysteries and what could be characterized as crime shows, I guess (Unforgotten, Shetland, etc.), and one thing that I find jarring when I then see American cop shows is that in American TV, they are ALWAYS running forward, guns drawn, or rolling a vehicle or blowing something up. In British shows, you almost never even SEE a gun, let alone garish explosions and such. Apparently, seeing things blown up, shot up, burned up, is what American audiences want. Not this audience. Give me a plot line that makes sense and forget the pyrotechnics, thank you.
Sandra I am also a fan of British cop shows and I love the fact that they are focused less on violence being met by more violence, as in US cop shows. However, they are just as fictional as US cop shows. Alas. The British Constabulary is racist, sexist, prone to violence, and they feel enormously entitled. The fact that most are not licensed to carry firearms is a good thing because I would fear what a British beat cop might do if he were allowed to carry, especially in cities (Manchester, Leeds, Bradford, Liverpool, Bristol . . .) where there are large immigrant populations pitted against financially straitened white working class residents. The stalking, abduction, and murder of a woman in South London by a London cop, which happened a couple weeks ago and precipitated a series of mass demonstrations that the government is all het up about (because, y'know, women being uppity makes British men super nervous), is shocking but I suspect also not all that unusual: British cops are just as prone to corruption and abuse as US cops.
Linda, for sure, people are people everywhere. I was painting in broad strokes, obviously. And yes, on both sides of the Pond, they are fiction. No doubt the fiction of believing the British are more 'civilized' has been proven wrong multiple times over, especially as more of the truth of colonialism has come to the fore. I'm sure the prejudices that seem more prevalent now have always been there. What, perhaps, has changed is the extent to which they are tolerated or even encouranged.
But British cops are not as deadly.
In US cop/detective shows EVERYBODY has a weapon (good guys and bad guys). Most of the British shows I watch don't seem to "give" a weapon to both sides...as I remember
I agree with your POV. I also read very little US Crime/Mystery fiction for the same reason. I'm not saying that "offshore" crime/mystery fiction is glib and lovely but I find much of it better conceived and better written. Maybe I'm a snob though...
Intelligent deduction everytime...yeh!
Right there with you, Sandra, as to British cop shows!
I am with you on all that, Sandra.
We have a Congress that has been infiltrated by some members who have never known what it is to be loyal to this country. Money and power continues to be what influences them. It is a pretty simple equation and a very old one.
Our police forces are very militarized and need to return to the days of protect and serve. That sentiment encompasses all that a community police force needs to motivate them in every small town and large city in the United States.
They used to be called Peace Officers in my hometown of 7,000 in the 1950s. I e often wondered if the loss of so many men in WWII had anything to do with the crime rate after the war.
The Republicans in Congress DO NOT want government to work for ordinary people. During the past 4 years, they passed tax cuts and confirmed judges and very little else. They do not care about regular people except at election time. We are talking about people who would not take up meaningful gun legislation after small children and teachers were murdered in Sandy Hook. Legislation that helps ordinary people does not get support from the “Haves” party, which currently uses the name Republican.
Lowering the flag is simply a gesture of condolence from America. It has no political meaning. Communities often offer food, cards, flowers to neighbors grieving for the loss of a loved one. It is not much, but it simply says America and our neighbors care about your sorrow. Let's not pummel such gestures of condolence. Let it be.
Let's send the families flowers then or a personal note from their representative. Lowering the flag every time a mentally ill gunman sneezes dilutes any sense of sincere condolences from my perspective.
Lowering the flag is a simple gesture of respect— it’s the least we can do.
Yes, you could send the families your personal condolences. Condolences are about the bereaved, not the gunman.
These days it feels like we are in perpetual National mourning.
And today I'm wondering if we are also in a state of perpetual PTSD. I find myself now thinking the awful "what if" I go to the grocery store and I see someone in the parking lot carrying a "long gun." That's as much a part of my current reality as I felt the first time I entered a theater after Aurora and the first time I gathered with others (pre-pandemic) for a concert after Las Vegas. And why I don't feel safe anywhere - church, restaurants, stores, walking down the sidewalk, driving under an overpass, etc. It's not just Covid; it's because of where I live and all the open carry white supremacists here...white men wearing fatigues driving pickup trucks with oversized wheels, waving their confederate flags. Before the pandemic, I had returned from the grocery and a friend was helping me unload the bags out of my car when we heard a series of blasts about a block away. He, being a Marine and recognizing the sound instantly, pushed me down and then dragged me into the house and told me to shelter away from windows. That's my life now; always being on "alert" for the possibility that someone else will go off "half cocked" as they say. It's like living on the edge while being "safe" inside one's own home.
yes, in truth, there is no safe space
IMHO, that is a sobering realization
To do nothing would be worse. At least the acts are recognized and it serves to remind the radical gun rights people this is a result of their insistence in allowing anyone to own a weapon of mass destruction.
Not to say that funding mental health initiatives is bad, because I'm certainly all in favor of doing more for people wrestling with mental health issues, but I feel it's not relevant. We talk about mental health when we have another and yet another mass shooting ad infinitum because we are unwilling or incapable of talking about guns. Sorry to borrow the bromide, but mental health problems don't kill (other) people --with rare exceptions-- guns kill people.
People wrestling with mental illness are far less dangerous to others than the general public, statistically.
That said, it is fascinating that we elect folks to Congress who do not enact workable solutions to a uniquely American problem, the misuse of guns. These mass murders are predictable and they not only have in common that their perpetrators are almost universally white men but that they are universally carried out by gunfire. What do we not 'get' about that reality?
Yes, my motto right now is "Re-elect No One". If they aren't going to do anything or the don't work well with others to come up with solutions, they shouldn't be there. I do have a few exceptions to this motto, but none of them have an R by their name even if I would vote for them personally. I'm not voting for anyone supporting the Republican party at any level in government as long as it is the party of hate, violence, lies, etc etc.
Yes, I agree with you. We need both. Assault weapons and its ammunition is meant to kill, nothing less. Also, as Heather pointed out, if we read the Constitution as originalists "bear arms" means be part of a well-regulated militia. The gun manufacturers wouldn't even spend a nickel on a known trigger problem allowing the gun to fire when unintended that killed several people including children but they'll spend millions and millions on lobbying the Congress to do nothing. I'd like states to start requiring insurance on guns like we do for automobiles... and make assault weapons unaffordable. Our country as a whole needs some lessons in mental wellness with all the people gullible to conspiracy theories, etc. There is, also, helping men feel better about themselves so they don't have to carry a big weapon so they don't feel small in other ways. At least with President Biden, he is sincere about his condolences to people.
Insurance on guns is a tremendous notion. But there is a serious problem with tiny penises.
It’s societal mental health at issue not that of individuals. I struggle to put words together in the way so many excel at here in this forum, but we need to pay far more attention to experts who have studied these things. I’m not the historian or academic, as so many are here, and so I may just be less informed, but I find myself wondering why there is not more mention of work done by Robert Jay Lipton, William Reich, the field of psychohistory (“Psychohistory derives many of its concepts from areas that are perceived to be ignored by conventional historians and anthropologists as shaping factors of human history, in particular, the effects of parenting practice and child abuse.[2] According to conventional historians "the science of culture is independent of the laws of biology and psychology".[3] and "[t]he determining cause of a social fact should be sought among social facts preceding and not among the states of individual consciousness".[4]
Psychohistorians, on the other hand, suggest that social behavior such as crime and war may be a self-destructive re-enactment of earlier abuse and neglect; that unconscious flashbacks to early fears and destructive parenting could dominate individual and social behavior.[5][6]”-from Wiki
And I would add there is very good work being done today (Bruce Perry to name just one) on the way towards a healthier society. We can also go all the way back to Margaret Mead’s study of indigenous cultures. There are many here in this community that have given voice to the way forward being thru love. People bathed in love as children cannot fathom the impoverishment and abuse that many children are dealt in their formative years unless they see it up front and in their face.
Did Trump have a mental “illness” or is he mentally unwell? I think we are justifiably sensitive about the label of “ mental illness”, but I feel like we have to find the words and ways to converse about how we get to a more humane humanity and Trump and friends are humanely unwell. I have to say I’m pretty confident that problem lies within their brains, so what else should we call it. An earnest question.
Yes, Indeed, indeed!
My wife says poking these issues is like poking a fire ant hill. We are all about to get stung. I see this as the ultimate death struggle in zero sum gamesmanship. The Republican leadership will use this issue to fill their coffers and reinvigorate their dying culture. What a sad way to spend our time.
those fire ants ain't a joke. We used to call them 'piss aints' in LA [lower Alabama].
I agree about getting stung, but poking is essential. Alerting our congressional creatures is critical.
We represent at least 100 folks when we take action to communicate to congress.
We actually do have leverage, aka power.
The most effective way to kill fire ants is to use the two-step method: baiting and mound drench. The first step involves using bait to kill the queen and other worker ants deep in the colony. The second step is to use insecticide for targeted treatments on the mounds.
CBS This Morning interviewed Olivia Munn. Here is what she said about the President lowering the flag for the Asian Community. (Slide over to about the 1:50 time) https://www.cbsnews.com/video/olivia-munn-speaks-out-on-anti-asian-racism-importance-of-representation-in-hollywood/
Powerful. I can certainly understand why especially in this case the lowering of the flag is so important. Thanks for the link.
Wow. Thanks for this. Opened my eyes, and heart. Which means I'm crying again. So powerful.
Lowering the flag without accomplishing any gun safety, while using political and government power to protect an increasingly violent gun culture and industry is more propaganda and misinformation. Our courts don't offer any protection when Americans try to hold those who proliferate guns responsible for their participation. The tobacco industry was not given this kind of protection.
The flag was never meant to accomplish gun safety. Lowering the flag is a gesture of respect for the bereaved. Don’t overshadow the purpose of lowering the flag with a political purpose. Not to object to your point, though. That should be addressed, just not by the lowered flag.
I hear ya, Cathy, but I disagree. Symbols are important. But we need more symbols and more ceremonies that display and share our grief for the loved and lost. We need a national act of solidarity with the victim's families. We need a collective act of sorrow for the lost; and to demonstrate our collective disgust for the NRA and those elected leader's who profess we can not do anything about gun violence. We need bigger, not smaller symbols and ceremonies to force the change we deserve.
Ted, I agree.
Yes to yo, Ted
For some folks lowering the flag is an emotional outlet that helps them grieve. It is difficult to deny that outlet.
Yes, I hear you. Asian-Americans felt like they were finally a recognized group with the flag at half staff for the mass shooting in Georgia. What are we going to do when nothing is being done and the flag is at half staff every day with a mass shooting? Just leave it down all the time? Is the country going to be in mourning all the time? Depressing.
My favorite quote of Wallace Stegner's (or, one of my favorite quotes of his) is, I suspect, one of his least quoted: "When the West fully learns that cooperation, not rugged individualism, is the quality that most characterizes and preserves it, then it has a chance to create a society to match its scenery."
Without local cooperation they wouldn't have survived in the West; the "indian" wars, their agricultural inanities and the climate would have driven them back across the Mississippi. An excellent example of what happens without that sense of "being in this together" are the early attempts at settlement on the James River in Virginia where each scion of wealthy English families was in it for himself and not there to ensure that the community had food to eat. Counter examples of how "cooperation" saved the very lives of the new communities can simply be found in the cooperation accorded the "pilgrim" settlements in New England where they died of hunger without the Native population feeding them......think on that the next time you celebrate Thanksgiving!
Stegner was brilliant and poignant.
Everything is so tied up in big money. I think I know how the commoners felt under the lords and ladies of old; powerless. And to know that this is one more thing we can tie to the legacy of Ronald Reagan?Trickle-down economics, demolished social safety nets, and unfettered rights to own and carry guns; all are weapons of mass destruction in terms of the harm they have caused.
Heather's review of the history of gun ownership in America, the Second Amendment, the NRA, etc. pretty much corresponds with what I remember. For me the most disturbing part of the story is how the gun industry and the NRA and movement conservatives managed to convince even the SCOTUS that the clear English in the Second Amendment is about personal gun rights, not about a well-regulated Militia being necessary to the security of a free State. Clearly the right to a gun was dependent on the need for the militia, which made sense when the USA did not maintain a standing army. Well, now we have a standing army (big time), and no need whatsoever for private individuals to have guns or "bear" arms, as intended by the founders.
The most frustrating thing about this issue is how easy it should be to find a working compromise, but the Right has always used its slippery slope argument that somehow sensible gun laws would infringe on the rights of law-abiding hunters and fearful people wanting to keep a small revolver in the bedside table for home defense. This is clearly not true, both could be accommodated while making mass murders with semi-automatic M-16 clones extremely difficult to accomplish, especially by deranged young men.
David I agree, but I do disagree with calling these men "deranged." They are acculturated to believe that "having a bad day" is a reasonable excuse to go on a killing spree. Moreover, BIPOC who own guns are far more likely to be killed by the police, who consider the 2nd Amendment to refer only to white people, than to be coaxed away from the killing fields and treated with kid gloves, as occurred in Georgia and, even if wounded, in Boulder. It most certainly occurred in Wisconsin when the teenager (who should not have owned a gun in the first place) killed protestors--and is now being hailed as a hero by the Trumpista Party and other despicables. I am not using their names, btw, because that gives these poster children for toxic masculinity a platform.
Way back in 2002, Michael Moore's film Bowling for Columbine produced a statistic: there are far more guns in Canada per capita than in the USA. Yet the number of homicides in Canada, the number of mass shootings, the killing of (usually female) spouses and children is a fraction--even per capita (taking into account the smaller population overall)--than in the USA. The question is not why is Canada equally awash with guns but not awash with mass murders. The question is why the USA and its alleged legislators (I refuse to call these grotesqueries who occupy so many public offices in the US anything more than alleged) have normalized the idea that mass murder, spousal murder, child killing are all merely the "reasonable" fallout for the "right to bear arms."
Hello Linda,
We are clearly on the same side of this issue and I agree our racist, misogynist and pervasively violent American culture - such as it is - contributes to the likelihood that a few of our young men will become deranged, take advantage of the ease with which almost anyone can purchase the semiautomatic equivalent of an M16 ( the military version can be fired on automatic) and express their derangement by killing a lot of people very quickly. Having learned to shoot an M 16 back in basic training in 1972, I am actually surprised that the young man in the Boulder King Soopers was only able to kill 10 people and not 20 or 30; that's how deadly these $500 weapons are. In fact, considering how many military-style weapons are floating around in our society, and how many unhappy people in our winner-take-all-screw-the-hindmost economy there must be, It surprises me we do not have even more mass killing than we do.
Of course I agree with you that our police tend to summarily kill BIPOC in the kind of situations in which they make an effort to arrest Whites, that our society is shot through with - in fact, founded on - racism, misogyny, xenophobia and unwarranted feelings of cultural superiority (otherwise known as exceptionalism) and that the Trumpistas appear to revel in it .
I also agree that "Bowling for Columbine" gives important insight into the USA's gun problem and is an excellent documentary film, but gun laws have become stricter in Canada since 2002 in response to an increase in gun violence there, too. Nevertheless, it continues to be a far less violent and more democratic country than ours.
In any case, when I use the word "derangement" I am not thinking of someone who is merely having a bad day (however you want to define it) but more of someone who is living in an unimaginable existential black hole and who sees no alternative but to commit suicide and, unfortunately, make a statement and be remembered. I doubt any of these killers thinks of his own problem(s) as simply a bad day, and I imagine the police spokesman in Atlanta who suggested this was the case for last week's mass murderer has heard from his superiors, if not been fired. At least I hope so.
I wonder what kind of prolific guns Canadians own. Was there any specificity on that stat?
I saw the film almost 20 years ago so I cannot remember the numbers he used, but he did have solid stats on this AND he interviewed a bunch of Canadians (including gun owners) about what it was that made Canada different in their opinion. It was one of the most interesting parts of the film for me--obviously, since it has stayed with me for 20 years!
Michael Moore posted the entire movie, Bowling for Comunbine for free viewing today:
https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=274662174031394&id=100044628390313
wow, just watched it. Mr. Moore is a really smart and provocative man. I remember Roger and Me--a sign for rabbits for sale read
pets or meat
the followup was a movie called Pets or Meat
Kind of a resonant dichotomy.
This whole attempt to convince Americans of the “right” of toddlers to shoot their siblings dead (“tragic but you can’t limit guns”)has been an effective attack in the very sanity of this country.