Racism is obvious, but pathological guilt about sex also seems to be a motivation for the crimes. Investigators should look into what’s preached in the killer’s church.
Racism is obvious, but pathological guilt about sex also seems to be a motivation for the crimes. Investigators should look into what’s preached in the killer’s church.
Daria, You seem to have gotten to the nub of this. I'm wondering how long it will take for the blame the victim(s) to begin? You know, 'well they were sex workers (I'm using the polite term here) and they knew the risks'.
There is some real deep, ugly stuff here. Calling Dr. Freud, stat. 3 -2 -1 ...
Daria, you have more information than I, who live in Atlanta. Guess I'll have to read today's newspaper, and hope that it has more information. Independent counseling might have been more helpful. I can only imagine that fundamentalist advice could have been part of his problem. It makes me think of a friend who went to her priest for advice about sexual problems with her husband.
Pathological guilt about sex as a motivation for violence against women sounds too much like a get out of jail plan. I am not buying it. What purpose would be served by investigators searching for answers in community churches? Just another way to blame someone else. Too many people in life have suffered unspeakable abuse that derails their growth and well-being, from family members, from religious leaders, from hate groups, etc. Too many people have suffered from life in cults. But most abused people do not resort to massive acts of violence.
Correct— the description of the very young white man —he had a terrible day and he was at the end of his rope — but if he couldn’t go to that store and buy the gun we wouldn’t have the ugly incident.
Just so you are aware, the Southern Baptist Convention has very deep tentacles embedded in the fabric of our country. I would not call them community churches. They are hotbeds of intolerance and bigotry. Long was a member of an SBC church which promoted far right leaning beliefs, politically, socially and personally.
Congregations. 47,530 (2019)
Members. 14,525,579 (2019)
Weekly attendance = 5,250,230[1]
A look at the list of politicians who are SBC is informative, it will give you a sense of how and why our politics of intolerance is thriving. The body that supports the abuse you cite is very powerful and influential in every aspect of ALL of OUR lives, not just the lives of adherents. It has derailed and continues to derail the entire nation.
and there are thousands of smaller sects, equally or more fundamentalist in nature throughout. This rabid fundamentalism (misogyny, xenophobia, homophobia, racism, etc) poisons beyond the SBC.
We should look at the cause of the pathological guilt if we want to follow our better angels. No it should not be a license to kill and definitely should not be used to blame the victims. That is exactly what the pathological patriarchy hopes for. But we need to look deeply into the pathology if we want to do better as a society.
Using sex as a weapon or an excuse is not fundamentally about sex. As the saying goes - if you hit someone over the head with a spade, it's not called gardening.
Wait a minute, Southern religion? What is Southern religion? And all churches south of the Mason-Dixon have as a goal teaching hate, misogyny, and racism? I have lived in the South most of my 71 years, attended many different churches and never witnessed poisoning through the teaching of hate. Let's not make far-thrown condemnations based on our own limited knowledge.
"Southern religion" is Southern Fundamentalism. Most prominently the southern Baptist Church. And very definitely NOT "all" southern churches. I had the privilege of knowing the late Presbyterian minister Rev. Jim Thompson of Alabama, who came home from the Korean War and from his experiences decided to enter the ministry. In the first year of his posting to his first church, the Montgomery Bus Boycott began. He was one of only a very few Southern white ministers who supported that. He worked with Martin Luther King in the rest of the civil rights movement. People like him meet my definition of "saints" - i.e., those who are moral guideposts and measuring sticks for the rest of us to see if we actually "measure up." But I have also defined the problem of "Southern Religion" when I said he was "one of very few Southern white ministers to join..."
I find here in the main part of Atlanta, at least with Episcopal churches, they are very welcoming to all and are very careful not to offend and fully support everyone.However, I found when I went to a neighboring suburb, that was not at all the same story. They tried to hide (sugar coat) their prejudices but it was horribly evident. The more rural the area, it certainly gets worse. The area where MTG comes from has long had a terrible dark reputation, but now they have succeeded in getting one of their own in Congress.
TC, while fundamentalist religion flourishes in the South, it is not the only source of toxicity. Religious intolerance abounds everywhere. For every person who is comforted by religion, there are many more who are stunted. As human beings, we must be able to see through the fog and understand what we have to do to survive and flourish.
Let's not overgeneralize about "the South." Its religious heritage also embraces the Revs Dr King, King Sr, William Barber, Warnock, Ralph Abernathy, Fred Shuttlesworth, and many profoundly spiritual laypeople like Fannie Lou Hamer. Black Southerners are Southerners too.
Exactly right! It's why I talk of "Southernism." It's a state of mind, not necessarily a region. Like HRC points out, "The South won the civil war" socially.
Well, my family and friends know exactly what to expect from me, and while I try not to share all of my thoughts with acquaintances, it would be wise for them not to try to force their ideas on me. Unfortunately, racism and white privilege are everywhere.
I am not sure what is preached about women in church, but I DO know what is depicted about women in our entire culture, the internet, video games, sitcoms, movies, our advertising, etc.. Sexualizing women is pervasive. Access to sex scenes all over the internet is unhealthy for men and boys. Unhealthy for young humans who are not developmentally ready to deal with sex at young ages. And I have a growing population of young males addicted to internet porn. I do not blame churches, I blame our society that condones a lot of things that are harmful. Clean it up, America and the world. Let media moguls know that they can raise the level of our people by raising the intellectual level of what their media puts out into the world. They are responsible and need to be held accountable. And we need to boycott them as well. While we are at it, we might want to make sure to raise the level of who is able to run for elections from now on and what they are role modeling to our youth. Liars, white supremacists, men who brag about sexual assault and then attain the highest position in our land. We have some problems. And women and POC are the ones who end up usually having to fend off or deal with it. We need men to step up to the fricking plate to change the world.
Racism is obvious, but pathological guilt about sex also seems to be a motivation for the crimes. Investigators should look into what’s preached in the killer’s church.
And they should investigate the counseling he was receiving at HopeQuest, the Christian addiction treatment center.
Daria, You seem to have gotten to the nub of this. I'm wondering how long it will take for the blame the victim(s) to begin? You know, 'well they were sex workers (I'm using the polite term here) and they knew the risks'.
There is some real deep, ugly stuff here. Calling Dr. Freud, stat. 3 -2 -1 ...
Yeah, Charlie, I'm wondering too.
Daria, you have more information than I, who live in Atlanta. Guess I'll have to read today's newspaper, and hope that it has more information. Independent counseling might have been more helpful. I can only imagine that fundamentalist advice could have been part of his problem. It makes me think of a friend who went to her priest for advice about sexual problems with her husband.
Pathological guilt about sex as a motivation for violence against women sounds too much like a get out of jail plan. I am not buying it. What purpose would be served by investigators searching for answers in community churches? Just another way to blame someone else. Too many people in life have suffered unspeakable abuse that derails their growth and well-being, from family members, from religious leaders, from hate groups, etc. Too many people have suffered from life in cults. But most abused people do not resort to massive acts of violence.
Correct— the description of the very young white man —he had a terrible day and he was at the end of his rope — but if he couldn’t go to that store and buy the gun we wouldn’t have the ugly incident.
Just so you are aware, the Southern Baptist Convention has very deep tentacles embedded in the fabric of our country. I would not call them community churches. They are hotbeds of intolerance and bigotry. Long was a member of an SBC church which promoted far right leaning beliefs, politically, socially and personally.
Congregations. 47,530 (2019)
Members. 14,525,579 (2019)
Weekly attendance = 5,250,230[1]
A look at the list of politicians who are SBC is informative, it will give you a sense of how and why our politics of intolerance is thriving. The body that supports the abuse you cite is very powerful and influential in every aspect of ALL of OUR lives, not just the lives of adherents. It has derailed and continues to derail the entire nation.
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/03/18/us/robert-aaron-long-atlanta-spa-shooting.html
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_Baptist_Convention
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Southern_Baptist_Convention_affiliated_people
and there are thousands of smaller sects, equally or more fundamentalist in nature throughout. This rabid fundamentalism (misogyny, xenophobia, homophobia, racism, etc) poisons beyond the SBC.
Truth
Excellent point. And he wasn't just a member of the church, his father was the church's preacher.
exactly! The GOP long ago hijacked vulnerable denominations as they looked for a cult vulnerable base https://www.salon.com/2015/05/13/wingnuts_have_weaponized_jesus_how_the_religious_right_hijacked_christianity/ (just one of many)
That's it - the GOP weaponized Jesus.
The church poisons the mind, heart and soul.
We should look at the cause of the pathological guilt if we want to follow our better angels. No it should not be a license to kill and definitely should not be used to blame the victims. That is exactly what the pathological patriarchy hopes for. But we need to look deeply into the pathology if we want to do better as a society.
Repressed sexuality has gotten churches and priests and clergy in trouble for a long time.
Using sex as a weapon or an excuse is not fundamentally about sex. As the saying goes - if you hit someone over the head with a spade, it's not called gardening.
Fundamentalist bullshit is what's preached there. Southern "religion" is pure poison.
Wait a minute, Southern religion? What is Southern religion? And all churches south of the Mason-Dixon have as a goal teaching hate, misogyny, and racism? I have lived in the South most of my 71 years, attended many different churches and never witnessed poisoning through the teaching of hate. Let's not make far-thrown condemnations based on our own limited knowledge.
"Southern religion" is Southern Fundamentalism. Most prominently the southern Baptist Church. And very definitely NOT "all" southern churches. I had the privilege of knowing the late Presbyterian minister Rev. Jim Thompson of Alabama, who came home from the Korean War and from his experiences decided to enter the ministry. In the first year of his posting to his first church, the Montgomery Bus Boycott began. He was one of only a very few Southern white ministers who supported that. He worked with Martin Luther King in the rest of the civil rights movement. People like him meet my definition of "saints" - i.e., those who are moral guideposts and measuring sticks for the rest of us to see if we actually "measure up." But I have also defined the problem of "Southern Religion" when I said he was "one of very few Southern white ministers to join..."
As an escaped Southerner, I truly wonder how your experiences could be so pure. Please elucidate.
I find here in the main part of Atlanta, at least with Episcopal churches, they are very welcoming to all and are very careful not to offend and fully support everyone.However, I found when I went to a neighboring suburb, that was not at all the same story. They tried to hide (sugar coat) their prejudices but it was horribly evident. The more rural the area, it certainly gets worse. The area where MTG comes from has long had a terrible dark reputation, but now they have succeeded in getting one of their own in Congress.
TC, while fundamentalist religion flourishes in the South, it is not the only source of toxicity. Religious intolerance abounds everywhere. For every person who is comforted by religion, there are many more who are stunted. As human beings, we must be able to see through the fog and understand what we have to do to survive and flourish.
Let's not overgeneralize about "the South." Its religious heritage also embraces the Revs Dr King, King Sr, William Barber, Warnock, Ralph Abernathy, Fred Shuttlesworth, and many profoundly spiritual laypeople like Fannie Lou Hamer. Black Southerners are Southerners too.
Exactly right! It's why I talk of "Southernism." It's a state of mind, not necessarily a region. Like HRC points out, "The South won the civil war" socially.
I live in Southern California home to white privilege and racism. I dare not open my mouth on matters of faith or social justice.
Well, my family and friends know exactly what to expect from me, and while I try not to share all of my thoughts with acquaintances, it would be wise for them not to try to force their ideas on me. Unfortunately, racism and white privilege are everywhere.
Ya, so interesting...spend all your actual life in subjugation, reap all the rewards after death. 'Tis quite the con.
I am not sure what is preached about women in church, but I DO know what is depicted about women in our entire culture, the internet, video games, sitcoms, movies, our advertising, etc.. Sexualizing women is pervasive. Access to sex scenes all over the internet is unhealthy for men and boys. Unhealthy for young humans who are not developmentally ready to deal with sex at young ages. And I have a growing population of young males addicted to internet porn. I do not blame churches, I blame our society that condones a lot of things that are harmful. Clean it up, America and the world. Let media moguls know that they can raise the level of our people by raising the intellectual level of what their media puts out into the world. They are responsible and need to be held accountable. And we need to boycott them as well. While we are at it, we might want to make sure to raise the level of who is able to run for elections from now on and what they are role modeling to our youth. Liars, white supremacists, men who brag about sexual assault and then attain the highest position in our land. We have some problems. And women and POC are the ones who end up usually having to fend off or deal with it. We need men to step up to the fricking plate to change the world.
See Spooky's post below, about the "incel" movement. That's also a factor.
Yes--- it is horrifying. Thank you.