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Both Chairman Thompson and Rep. Cheney’s opening statements were brilliant. Tightly written, clear and direct, no equivocating. I especially admired Rep. Thompson’s connecting his Mississippi heritage with the evils of that state’s history to the actions of Lincoln and that famous unsent letter. This is where history serves its highest purpose - to connect us with our past in order to underscore both the uniqueness of the threat that Trump posed and continues to pose and to clearly delineate the through line of white supremacy and fascism that he so expertly tapped into and exploited to support his grab for power. While he may indeed someday be gone, those rivers will continue to run deep in our country. We must never let our guard down.

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Jun 10, 2022·edited Jun 10, 2022

The Free-Press is crucial in confronting those rivers of white supremacy and fascism that flow through our country.

'...Walter Lippmann wrote in one of the most prescient articles ever, in a 1919 edition of The Atlantic::

'Men who have lost their grip upon the relevant facts of their environment are the inevitable victims of agitation and propaganda. The quack, the charlatan, the jingo, and the terrorist, can flourish only where the audience is deprived of independent access to information. But where all news comes at second-hand, where all the testimony is uncertain, men cease to respond to truths, and respond simply to opinions. The environment in which they act is not the realities themselves, but the pseudo-environment of reports, rumors, and guesses. The whole reference of thought comes to be what somebody asserts, not what actually is.'

'But Lippmann was living in a relative informational paradise compared to today. Sure, there were those in his day who would eagerly excite the passions of the masses for nefarious purposes. But there were multiple daily newspapers in virtually every major city; dozens in New York City if you count the foreign-language press. Most important, sources of deliberate disinformation were as ants to the elephants when compared to today’s Murdoch empire, the Koch network, just about all of talk radio, pretty much every one of Facebook’s most visited sites, and all of the various sources promoting racism, sexism, antisemitism, islamophobia, and so on, in the wake of Trump’s takeover of the Republican Party. Their purpose is to undermine truth specifically for the reasons laid out in Lippmann’s prophetic piece, with predictably deleterious results for what remains of our democracy.' (Prospect)

https://prospect.org/politics/altercation-what-the-death-of-newspapers-really-means/

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Jun 10, 2022·edited Jun 10, 2022

Yes, thanks Fern! And I got goose bumps listening to Elton John's duo with Aretha Franklin on his "Border song." Free-Press and Free-Music!

https://youtu.be/UoTzWvqPNrk

Holy Moses I have been removed

I have seen the spectre he has been here too

Distant cousin from down the line

Brand of people who ain't my kind

Holy Moses I have been removed

Holy Moses I have been deceived

Now the wind has changed direction and I'll have to leave

Won't you please excuse my frankness but it's not my cup of tea

Holy Moses I have been deceived

I'm going back to the border

Where my affairs, my affairs ain't abused

I can't take any more bad water

Been poisoned from my head down to my shoes

Holy Moses I have been deceived

Holy Moses let us live in peace

Let us strive to find a way to make all hatred cease

There's a man over there

What's his colour I don't care

He's my brother let us live in peace

He's my brother let us live in peace

He's my brother let us live in peace

Writer/s: Bernie Taupin, Elton John

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The best Taupin/John song, so poignant and prescient not only when it was first written and recorded but more so now.

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I feel that it is so cool that I share a birthday with those 2 icons, Aretha exactly 10 years older, Elton, exactly 5 years older than me!

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Jun 10, 2022·edited Jun 10, 2022

In regard to the death of newspapers, it occurred to me that one vital thing missing in our era is the voice of the newspaper editor, always one of our best-informed citizens in small and medium-size cities, calling out harmful political charlatans, reminding us of our common heritage and our duty. Maybe not always in our segregated South, but certainly in most of the country.

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That voice of the local press has been replaced with the wonders of technology that we want to believe in. Who is on the other end, who is hiding? Who is telling the Truth? Who is purposely Lying? We trust these letters. We’ve met Heather Cox Richardson. She’s real. All depends on Trust. For the most part we know each other, the writers, through our words. Years ago, writing in high school and college and hometown newspapers we had by-lines and responsibility. Mostly. The Internet is another world.

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Thanks for the Lippmann article. Piques my curiosity to learn exactly what was going on then, right after end of WWI, that prompted this prophetic response. Some things never change.

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How about that Fox news coverage, Eh!? Riveting candor!

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George, you're back and with a sense of humor, eh!

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Yup...We were made for each other, Eh!?

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Thank you for sharing this, Fern. Walter Lippmann was indeed prescient, chillingly so. The question for our age is - can we rise to the challenge?

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Jun 10, 2022·edited Jun 10, 2022

Andrea, America's identity was the basis of your comment. I often go to Madison, Jefferson -- the Founding Fathers -- Lincoln, they wrestled mightily with threats to the Republic and Democracy. Can we make some improvements to strengthen the country's institutions, the rule of law, its foundation and reckon with states' rights?

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Yes; you nailed it. Thanks.

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👌🏼

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“Tonight, I say this to my Republican colleagues who are defending the indefensible: There will come a day when Donald Trump is gone, but your dishonor will remain.”

Perfect. Liz is right on target. Explain to those repubs. who blindly agree to anything trump wants that the stand they take now will not be forgotten. It will be in the official U.S. records. Their family, friends, and fellow Americans will see their official stand forevermore. Is that the legacy they want to live with and also leave behind after they die?

I had the same feeling when that Georgia congressman said last year that the January 6 insurrection was just "a normal tourist visit." Beyond the absurdity of his answer, I thought, "Do you really want your family, friends, neighbors, and descendants to read such ridiculous quotes from you?" I guess he just didn't/doesn't care.

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I started watching a bit late and missed Chairman Thompson's opening statement. I'm going to try to see if I can find it.

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Jun 10, 2022·edited Jun 10, 2022

"We took some photographs on the east side of the Capitol, and then we went for lunch. We went for tacos" – Nick Quested, Filmmaker

That statement by Quested during last night's testimony reflects just how confident the Proud Boys were that Trump would have a mob whipped into a frenzy and ready to storm the Capitol that afternoon. They knew before lunchtime that the Capitol was drastically underprotected and an easy target. They thought shutting down the electoral vote count and handing Trump the presidency would be a snap. They never imagined Officer Caroline Edwards and the other officers on duty would commit to defending the Capitol and the lawmakers inside. So they went to lunch.

Sincere gratitude to every officer who stood against the mob on January 6, 2021. They are heroes.

Here is a link to transcript with regard to Quested's statement about tacos You are going to have to scroll through to find it. This is not time stamped and lifted from CNN's broadcast. A complete transcript has not yet been released by the Committee. There are other partial transcript sources as well. C Span's uncorrected transcript from closed captioning actually says tapas.

https://transcripts.cnn.com/show/se/date/2022-06-09/segment/03

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Yes, Daria, every officer is a hero. I found myself looking away (again) as the video went on and on. So much violence against those defending the Capitol, by a bunch of thugs urged on by a narcissistic psychopath. We can only hope that these men and women will finally see justice served when tRump is led away in cuffs and ankle shackles.

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One of the PB’s said, “he did so much for us, and only asked us for two things.” And PB membership tripled! He did so much???

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My thought was, he asked for a third thing: Your money - lots of it.

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My exact comment when I heard that! People have no idea when they’re being conned.

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So true Trump was a big $$ raiser

But the whole system has devolved into that. You should see my inbox Gimme gimme gimme

Thanks to our illustrious myopic Supremes ( what a misnomer) and their incomprehensible decision that a corporation has the same free speech rights as an individual and should be treated as such.

(Nevermind that the REASON for a person to incorporate is to get oneself off the financial hook that he/she would face as an individual PERSON.)

Money has corrupted the whole system

Maybe some of the finances behind Jan 6 will come to light as well

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I agree about our inboxes. So, I've given to about a half dozen campaigns. Heaven have mercy, there are at least a dozen requests daily, now. Some are from ad hoc causes...to someone's private wallet?

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Yes, he did. He made racism, white supremacy and “Christian” nationalism, not to mention fascism, “respectable” again.

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Exactly. Four full years of respectability for whites having power. The Trump presidency was the wet dream of all racists, sexists, antisemites, and gay haters, and a nightmare for all of us, the majority.

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Not "whites having power," Roland. For "white heterosexual males of means having power." No white women, white LGBTCQs, white immigrants, white Muslims/Hindus/Jews/Buddhists/etc, and certainly no whites who are below the poverty line, need apply. Granted, there is some advantage to "whiteness," in that some of the undesirables can "pass" if they're smart enough to keep their mouths shut and go along, but for the most part, it's all about white heterosexual men of means.

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Yes of course. Perfectly stated. Thank you for spelling it all out in detail, ML.

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Wrapped with a red bow!

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Yes, that was a jarring remark until I remembered that death star has given carte blanche to every thug in the country who has the same poison in his soul. What was interesting to me was that the Proud Boys were already at the Capitol complex by 10:30 casing it and never listened to the speech. I admire Officer Edwards both for her courage that day and her compelling testimony last night. I am very happy that the leaders of the Proud Boys and the Oath Keepers are charged with seditious conspiracy.

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The rally at the ellipse was a decoy. The evidence they showed proves that DFG, PB and OK planned it all in advance. It wasn't reconnaissance , they knew in advance from those inside the WH how poorly defended the Capital would be. They went to those entry points in advance and would lead the roiled up rallyers from the ellipse to breach the Capital. A well thought out plan. TREASON

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Yes, certainly help from the inside. The speech was to stir up a large crowd while the those already there led people in. Yes, treason.

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Spot on Doreen. Ellipse feint was a visible rally point for the most radical leaders, ie., PB's, OK's - and the White House. Planning, logistics, etc., were all a done deal far in advance - before what was noted as a December affair. More to come...

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They skipped the speech, because they were conducting reconnaissance, and were first in line to breach the largely unprotected Capitol. Once they saw that it would be an easy task, they were ready for tacos.

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Funny, when the videographer said "tacos," I thought he had said, "Tuckers!" Wish they would have eaten tucker up! That did hit my funny bone this morning!

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He did use the word tucker when referring to the lunch. I thought it was a British word.

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That was the one comment that stood out to me. WHAT did he ever do for them?

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He made them feel like they were seen, personally, by him. Topmost narcissist.

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Exactly. Which makes me wonder how much America is failing unproud boys and oath losers.

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The Confederacy lost, but they did not disappear. Unfortunately.

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Trump gave the deplorables a society where they felt comfortable. Remember what it was like, living in a Trump administration, when the racists and sexists felt comfortable to be themselves, openly?

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Is deplorable a milder or harsher term for despicable?

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Deplorable is “Trump for President.” Despicable is “Let’s Go Brandon.“

I saw a Let’s Go Brandon flag mounted to the rear of a pick-up truck once on leaving my trucking overnighter hotel. I have also seen a Fuck Joe Biden car window sticker. I admit, they both got a reaction out of me. They did not endear me to the occupants of those vehicles, and I was having pictures of damaging those vehicles.

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You drive down a street, and some of the houses have Trump flags on them. Some of the houses have rainbow flags and wordy signs that begin with “Hate has no home here…”

The Trump support is deplorable. I wouldn’t call it despicable, unless the homeowners display images of assault weapons, or they display flags or images of proud boys or 3%ers et al. “Despicable” is active abuse of people who are not white or male or heterosexual. Active persecution.

Deplorables are still members of society. Despicables are criminals.

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Publicity which validated their existence.

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My husband and I wondered the same thing. But, I see Rebecca's post and that makes sense.

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Look at it from their point of view not yours. Jon Margolis has it right. Then add in his trashing of elites and the effect on his opponents of nicknames. In their view he gave them recognition and more.

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You are spot on! And they are not going to go away or give up.

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To a degree yes. But the leaders will spend many years in prison, a significant deterrent.

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Hard to Heart that but, it is an incredibly devastating statement about our American people. Our own people.

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I wondered the same thing. What did that monster do for anyone, even his ignorant lap dogs? Oh, wait, there was Putin. . .

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And feeding the anger of the white supremacist groups?

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He did SO MUCH Damage The guy left out "damage"

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Pam, I hope to see them tried, convicted and sentenced to the max. Hand cuffs and shackles are not optional!

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Please do not use that appellation of the former guy. The derriere was a very important development in the evolution of H. sapiens. It's what enables us to run (no other primate has one), along with achilles tendons and the nuchal ligament, which holds our heads steady when we run. As Danny Lieberman at Harvard has written, in hunter gatherer days, humans ran long distances in pursuit of prey, that lacked the stamina of human runners even though they could run far faster for short distances, and who lacked the advantage for running of hairlessness and efficient sweat glands.

The derriere is also a secondary sex characteristic, and quite an attractive one, and doesn't deserve to be associated with bad people. And finally, there is something seemingly juvenile about that version of that name, which deflates efforts to use cold hard facts to put him in the bad light he deserves.

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I still have serious questions about the command and control from a law enforcement perspective. How is it that the local agencies were so overwhelmed, without equipment necessary, and no real contingency plan. The individual heroism (and I do not use that term lightly) is what saved our congress and our country; where was the command planning and control?

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I question the fact that they were understaffed and under equipped as well. Ally, you know far better than most of us what kind of law enforcement is required during demonstrations that may become violent. The fact that there was a mere skeleton crew assigned to the Capitol on that day is more than troubling. Once that question is answered I think other truths will be revealed as well.

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You've raised a critical question that must be addressed. Trump had no control over the Capitol police. And it was hardly a secret among law enforcement and intelligence agencies that major trouble was brewing.

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Michael, I think we will be surprised by the number of people responsible and who they are.

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Surprised? Not anymore. Expected is more accurate.

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The Republicans keep blaming it on Pelosi which tells you they know something.

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No, it doesn’t. They blame her and Hillary for everything, repeatedly. Now they can add Cheney to their misogynistic mix.

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Sorry. I did not take “it” to mean the police. I thought you meant the insurrection itself. Yes, they keep insisting the Speaker of the House commands the Capitol police. I hope the hearings straighten that out as to real chain of command. It would help if DC became a voting state or district attached to a state or something less fungible .

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Ann. This time I was referencing the discussion pertaining to the Capitol Police. Many people wonder why they weren't better manned and equipped and forewarned. The Republicans (in order to deflect any blame) are blaming Pelosi.

My remark wasn't about Clinton and the misogyny (although that is always running in this Country) but focused on the blame game of the Capitol Police questions.

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Not only do they know something, they're having a serious bout of SSS — Scared Sh*tless Syndrome. Last night's hearing triggered some serious intestinal churning.

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...And it will serve the purpose of providing more, forthcoming witness testimony.

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I haven't had a chance to look at the news today. And yep. Some scared people today.

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Jun 10, 2022·edited Jun 10, 2022

When the Mayor of D. C. annnounced early on the morning of January 6th that they had "6,000 Capitol Police officers on standby" I screamed at the TV, "You need 60,000!! AND The National Guard!" For those of us who had friends with front row seats for the Lansing, Michigan Capitol dress rehearsal by these militant hoodlums, it was clear this was war. Even at 7 a.m. it was clear this was going to be a coup with restrictions put on The Guard and the military responses. I look forward to the findings by the January 6th Comittee on just how tRump and his merry band of traitors undermined, blocked and endangered our law enforcement that day. Benedict Arnold's punishment would be too lenient.

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everyone i spoke to ahead of time thought that there would be big trouble. then the proud boys, etc., case the joint, and still no response. i know it sounds like blaming the victims, but why weren't they ready? my best guess is that they thought right wingers would respect the police. in the minds of those attempting the coup, of course, these were not police, they were security, pretend police, like weekend warriors compared to active duty troops, not deserving of respect. the capitol police earned their stripes that day, tho.

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We may find out as these hearings continue although the tweet and other public uttering by certain people should have alerted them. I ended up with the utmost admiration for that young officer.

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Something said last night makes me think we’ll hear more about this lack. And the police etc won’t be blamed for no planning.

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I wonder the same thing, and also hope that we'll eventually find out the truth about what happened at the Pentagon, with Flynn's brother. It would be difficult to convince me that he wasn't involved in this hideous affair.

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I believe, Ally, there will be an astounding resounding answer to that question. And that the answer will clearly name the former commander-in-chief of his most heinous of crimes, knowingly failing to protect the people he took an oath to protect. The American people.

UNITA.

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Thank you, Daria, for pointing out the relevant and important takeaways. I continue to think about and remain in such gratitude and awe towards the efforts of the Capitol police that day. Heroes and patriots. They saved democracy that day so that we the people have the chance to do it now.

UNITA! 🗽

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Jun 10, 2022·edited Jun 10, 2022

We still don’t know who placed bombs at the DNC and elsewhere close to the Capital, that was a tactical diversion, aimed at Capital Police’s leadership at a key moment. Distracted by an immediate lethal threat, the opportunity of awareness of what else was happening and to harden Capital defenses was lost. What if those bombs had exploded and killed people at later key moment?

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Any chance the committee already knows and that's one "bombshell" they're waiting to drop?

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Sure hope so. I think that was missing yesterday, that’s why I mention it. If the bomber was acting alone, but also a member of one of the many gangs… then it helps to add it to the narrative.

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Five more hearings to go.

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Wouldn't the FBI update the public if they had someone of interest or custody?

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That's a good point. You can't tell me that there is not video surveillance available that points to the perpetrator(s).

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They have surveillance of the bomber to and from DNC Headquarters, leaving the backpack bomb. He is wearing a hoodie, hat, shades, pandemic mask, and distinctive sneakers. They must other surveillance of him tracking him around the city to a vehicle, a parking garage, a hotel, or something. But we haven't heard of this yet. This makes me suspicious that the bomber had plan, a route, and some tradecraft to shield his identity such as his body weight and build, hair color, eye color, ethnicity, from cameras. Somewhere along his to and from route, he must have known where there were no cameras to switch identities to throw off the FBI. But that can also help track another suspect(s).

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2022/01/january-6-capitol-hill-pipe-bomb/621178/

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I still think the person who planted the bomb was a female. The gait was a dead giveaway.

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Jun 10, 2022·edited Jun 10, 2022

Good catch! Baggie clothes to hide gender. Even wearing men's sneakers. It wouldn't surprise me. The crowd had a lot of radicalized women too. If there was an Ashley Babbitt willing to crawl through broken glass window while Capital Police told her not to or they would shoot, well....that is enough for anyone to suspect a female was/is capable of placing a bomb. For some reason, that makes me think it was a plot, not a loner. How many women know hot to make bombs? And combine that with a disguise and ability to avoid surveillance/counter insurgency playbook. This is all organized tradecraft of terrorists ( and our military teaches this as "counterinsurgency").

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Ha! I was thinking Marjorie Taylor Greene, putting some moxie into her frequent insinuations of violence.

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I've seen the comparisons... we can only hope!

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Yes. You're right. I remember that video. You're right, too, about "changing identities, I think. The bomber must have had insight and knowledge about what was where. Identifying that individual publicly could be a pivotal element against Trump and fellow insurrectionists.

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How would an out of town bomber show up in DC, leave their hotel or vehicle in a parking garage, in a disguise, to walk to DNC HQ leave a bomb and then just disappear? Right?

Its impossible without some inside knowledge of DC traffic camera's, & numerous security camera's. ( there is a series of traffic camera's everywhere in DC and every major city. Every government building has camera's and almost every business has a security camera.

The FBI should be able to track this person by putting all these camera's together and link them to a vehicle, a hotel, or a residence, or at least another person or disguise.

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The tradecraft says something to me. Either the suspect is from law enforcement and/or military with counterinsurgency training. The person has been professionally trained to hide identity, and to know where surveillance is and how to avoid it. "Blue by day, white by night" kind of a suspect.

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Beautifully written. Thank You.

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Tucker, not tacos. I think...

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Jun 10, 2022·edited Jun 10, 2022

I just found the bit where Quested says "...we went for lunch, we went for tuckers..." https://www.answers.com/Q/What_does_tucker_mean_in_Australia

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I don't understand.

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I think Donna is making a humorous suggestion that perhaps the PBs had tacos for lunch with a side of Tucker (Carlson). Something like that.

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Roland, if Nick Quested is part of the British Empire, then the word was likely "tucker."

"This is some great Aussie slang for food that has been in constant use since the 1850s. The original meaning is of a meal, that is, something to be tucked away (in the stomach)."

https://www.macquariedictionary.com.au/blog/article/548/#:~:text=This%20week%2C%20our%20word%20is,away%20(in%20the%20stomach).

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Jun 10, 2022·edited Jun 10, 2022

Here is a link to the transcript. He said tacos. "We went for tacos".

https://transcripts.cnn.com/show/se/date/2022-06-09/segment/03

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Thanks for the transcript. What got recorded may or may not have taken into account his word pronunciation. The only real way to settle it definitively is via a digital analysis of the speech, or Quested himself saying, "Hey, hold on... you Yanks dunno what you're rattling on about..." Transcriptions pushed out as fast as this one was typically do contain small errors caused by mishearing words (whether by human ears or automatic transcribers).

Either way, the bottom line is that Quested thought it extremely odd that the group did some periphery site surveillance, and then headed off to lunch.

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Jun 10, 2022·edited Jun 10, 2022

The transcript is inaccurate. I just listened to what he said, on the C-Span video of the hearing. Quested says "...we went for lunch, we went for tuckers..." Go to 1:31:57 where he says first "we went for lunch, we went for tuckers".

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Ah! Thanks, Roland. Sometimes I'm too serious for my own good😏

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Jun 10, 2022·edited Jun 10, 2022

Actually, he was using an Aussie term for a meal. Just found his testimony of last night and he said "then we went for lunch, we went for tuckers". https://www.answers.com/Q/What_does_tucker_mean_in_Australia

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Thank you for this. Well, we shall see if the American people actually translate this into action. My suspicion and fear is they will not (inflation's high, after all. Gas too! What in all the universe could be more important or alarming than that?)...and we will sleepwalk ourselves further down this road--because for all of our idiotic vitriol, we're still Sleepwalk Nation when it comes to big things. My other fear, based on some headline surfing, is that Meadows is already being cast as the "high enough person to scapegoat." Well no, Meadows is no scapegoat--he's guilty and frankly, should be hanged--and no, I won't apologize for saying that. But honestly, the outcome of this hearing, aside from prosecuting every person who took part, should be to make sure Donald Trump can never run for president again. If that man is running again as the GOP nominee in two years, we're headed toward a civil war, or worse, the utter destruction of our nation. That more average Americans cannot see this...well, maybe then we DO deserve what we get. I am deeply bothered, worried and upset at how much we--the American people--STILL don't seem to get it. The Army-McCarthy hearings were the beginning of the end for McCarthy. Somehow, I'm doubtful this will come close to achieving the same result.

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I share your anger. And I often despair of a spoiled nation that doesn't participate in it's democracy due to a lack of interest. However...

Wishing death upon anyone is not good karma. Anyone. But accountability is another matter. I prefer to see last nights Hearing as a tipping point. The statements by Barr and Ivanka are wooden stakes in heart of the ridiculous conspiracy of a stolen election. Last night painted an irrefutable picture of an attempted coup. Any alternate talk by radical TV bobble heads is just a side show. Two white supremacist groups led an attack on Congress and the Vice President at the behest of TFG. Facts were displayed by witnesses and members of the groups.

History was made last night. But it is just the beginning of what is essentially a public trial. I was surprised by the degree to which the Chair and Co-chair masterfully wove the events of January 6th with a consistent focus on the central and leading role played by TFG. It was damning beyond refutation.

TFG said that his Vice President "deserved" to be hanged. Let's not lower ourselves to that level of vitriol and vengeance. Whether TFG is jailed or not, his legacy will be that of the worst possible President in our history. His name will be spoken with disgust. In terms of treason and betrayal he has supplanted Benedict Arnold.

The end game of this whole episode is still unknowable. After all, how many would have bet that TFG could have actually been elected? Not even he expected to win. There is a surprise around every corner. I predict a slowly building snowball effect of GOP figures stepping away from the cult. It might even lead to a new political party now that "Republican" means treason.

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Well said Bill. Liz Cheney laid it out like opening statement for the prosecution. I predict many surprises and as you say a snowball effect. We have seen the opening scene. Much more to come.

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Liz Cheney was a fantastic spokesperson for the J6 committee and the case to be made against the former president.

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Hi Ellie.

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Bill Alstrom: I salute your words. “ TFG said that his Vice President "deserved" to be hanged. Let's not lower ourselves to that level of vitriol and vengeance.” We are all guilty of “self-talk” that weakens us. I hope it will end before it defeats us.

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Bill, I am feeling confident that you are correct in Republicans stepping away from the cult. God help us if they don’t. We need 2 parties which both care about our democracy. Clearly many in the current Republican party only care for power.

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How about we hear the January 6 Committee out before deciding outcomes. I, for one, am taking a much needed victory lap for Democracy post last night's hearing. At the end of the day I repeat the Lincoln Project's statement.

There are more of us than them. We will win.

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Last night was awesome. Why are so many comments projecting defeat? You are doing the work of the traitors for them.

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1000% agree. The defeatist attitude is their goal. It means they have won.

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As noted above, the rational inability to assign a probability to Trump being punished for his crime of sedition is not defeatism.

It is simply taking into account Trump's history, American history, and not assigning a high probability to a low probability event.

In my post I said 10% chance of Trump being charged and arrested. That is not zero.

There is hope.

But, there is history too.

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Mike, looks like these hearings could isolate Trump so much that even his family members will stay away from him. I mean, look at Jared and Ivanka’s testimonies (so far). Perhaps these hearings will also bring his supposed tv station down, as well. You know who is running things there? Devin Nunes! There’s a name from the past, right? Praying that he too, is brought into the figures of sedition, along with senators. Like children playing with blocks, may they all tumble and fall.

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This isn't just about trump being prosecuted. There are a whole bunch of Republicans who were and continue to be hostile to the United States of America. How can we assign any real valid probability to a historical event that never occurred before in this Country?

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Trump was the leader of the effort to overthrow the gov.

So. I am interested to see if our system can punish the leader who openly planned and executed sedition. Trump.

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Loree, assessing a low probability of the perpetrator (Trump) paying any price is not defeatism.

It is the historical precedent.

Trump has been a hardened criminal all of his adult life and has only once, very shortly, been charged with a crime (he beat his first wife when she made fun of his new, fake hairdoo and she called the cops). Trump spent almost no time with the cops before being released.

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Jun 10, 2022·edited Jun 10, 2022

We voted in the first bi-racial president (black mother and white father) president two presidencies ago. It is okay to believe in miracles and manifest them. We did it well!

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Pensa, I am never one to correct you but perhaps biracial would be a better term to use. Yes, we did pull off a miracle and I hope we damn well so it again!

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Thank you. Good call. Will correct--thanks!

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Obama's mother was white, his father was black.

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Can’t ❤️ this but hey, I didn’t know about that tidbit of information!

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I agree, Barbara. I think there is still a lot yet to explore in this whole affair. Last night was kind of a "hurling down the gauntlet", so to speak, merely to show what happened, give a timeline of events, and through footage, relive the events. I think now the delving into details begins and the committee will systematically dive into how this was planned, who was in on it, and how it was executed. Last night was a direct indictment of T***p, and I expect that to continue. We're just scraping the surface so far and think there's still a LOT more to be revealed. I'm going to be patient and see what shows up.

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I was impressed with how Liz Cheney also laid out in precise but succinct terms the aspects of the investigation that will be addressed in each of the next 5 hearings.

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Optimism is appropriate when there is a reasonable probability of occurrence around a desired outcome.

Here, I am unable to assign a probability to the event: "Trump is arrested, cuffed and escorted to jail, then, convicted, and, spends time in prison".

However, I will go with optimism for now.

:-)

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Why the focus on trump? This attempted coup d'etat was broad and deep.

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Barbara. Trump was the leader. Yes. He had help.

But. No Trump? No insurrection.

That is why.

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He had a lot of help including but not limited to the Republican Party.

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Ok. I understand your perspective. Thanks for the extra explanation!

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Barbara: What is your perspective?

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Because Trump is thought to have planned it! Jeesh! Try to keep up!

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My response was for Mike and my perception that TFG was the only important to this. There was quite a web of politicians who were involved in this attempted coup d'etat. It is important they be identified and rooted out or we stand at great risk of another attempted coup in the near future. Our Government is riddled with Russian owned politicians and seditionists. We need to expose them.

Hence my remark.

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Hopefully, they will be but, I think, the big objective is to send Trump to the cooler and keep him out of politics for the rest of his criminal life. Now there’s an argument that he is a symptom and someone like him or worse could take his place. I live in Fl where the worse seem to come from by which I mean DiSantis, who just signed a law to create his own election police force, and where General Flynn lives pretty close to Del Rio the head of either the Proud Boys or the OathKeepers ( I can’t keep them straight), and where 87 of arrested insurrectionists live, not to fail to mention his majesty and his knave Roger Stone. I come from Michigan where most of the Republican legislators are under arrest and the Republican candidate for governor was just arrested for being one of the insurrectionists and where the PBs and Oks plotted to kidnap and kill the governor. They got off on the charges not because they didn’t conspire but because the FBI entrapped them.

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💕💕💕💕💕💕💕

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Yes!

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Jun 10, 2022·edited Jun 10, 2022

Robert,

"he's guilty and frankly, should be hanged"

I would offer that not only Meadows falls in this category but Trump falls well within this category.

It is about time people started talking about how to treat real traitors and stop shying away from talking like Republicans talk all day every day about innocent people.

Hanging is historically appropriate punishment for treason and there is precedent for hanging as punishment.

Having said all that, Trump was probably golfing yesterday at Mara Lago with exactly zero fear of being arrested or offered any other type of punishment for his active organization of a coup against the American government.

And, his fearless golfing? Is likely justified. I still give the probability of a Trump arrest as less than 10%.

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Treason only applies if we are at war. The correct term is sedition.

"Under Article III, Section 3, of the Constitution, any person who levies war against the United States or adheres to its enemies by giving them Aid and Comfort has committed treason within the meaning of the Constitution. The term aid and comfort refers to any act that manifests a betrayal of allegiance to the United States, such as furnishing enemies with arms, troops, transportation, shelter, or classified information. If a subversive act has any tendency to weaken the power of the United States to attack or resist its enemies, aid and comfort has been given.

The Treason Clause applies only to disloyal acts committed during times of war. Acts of dis-loyalty during peacetime are not considered treasonous under the Constitution."

And Sedition definition

"Sedition is the crime of revolting or inciting revolt against government. However, because of the broad protection of free speech under the First Amendment, prosecutions for sedition are rare. Nevertheless, sedition remains a crime in the United States under 18 U.S.C.A. § 2384 (2000), a federal statute that punishes seditious conspiracy, and 18 U.S.C.A. § 2385 (2000), which outlaws advocating the overthrow of the federal government by force. Generally, a person may be punished for sedition only when he or she makes statements that create a Clear and Present Danger to rights that the government may lawfully protect (schenck v. united states, 249 U.S. 47, 39 S. Ct. 247, 63 L. Ed. 470 [1919]).

The crime of seditious conspiracy is committed when two or more persons in any state or U.S. territory conspire to levy war against the U.S. government. A person commits the crime of advocating the violent overthrow of the federal government when she willfully advocates or teaches the overthrow of the government by force, publishes material that advocates the overthrow of the government by force, or organizes persons to overthrow the government by force. A person found guilty of seditious conspiracy or advocating the overthrow of the government may be fined and sentenced to up to 20 years in prison. States also maintain laws that punish similar advocacy and conspiracy against the state government."

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I personally still favor the possibility of RICO charges. The asset forfeiture, 20 years per charge, and treble damages on the fines.

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Barbara,

As always, your posts are benchmark. Thank you.

I have used the word "sedition" in the past, but, recently I hear Republicans (on media and even in private conversation) referring to a fair number of people as "treasonous" or "treason". "Treason" is more visceral and more visual impact reading and higher vocal impact than sedition (to me). Plus, more than half of America has no idea what sedition is (not including me now thanks to your post).

So, I just decided to use their (Republican) word. But, correct use of the English language I am a fan of, and, appreciate your clarification and information.

"A person found guilty of seditious conspiracy or advocating the overthrow of the government may be fined and sentenced to up to 20 years in prison. "

We can only trust that our legal system will do its proper work and that justice will be served to anyone who has participated in sedition against Americans and America.

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Mike Treason is discussed in the Constitution. ‘’Seditious conspiracy,” which the DOJ used in recent indictments, was not. As a non-lawyer they look like kissing cousins. Whether one uses a meat cleaver or a rapier, both seem appropriate in indicting and convicting Trump and his Mafiosos.

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Keith, I’ll take either one, as long as they do the job!

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Marlene Either a meat cleaver or a rapier will work well, since Republicans are carnivorous. . .

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I learned the difference from someone else. The always overdramatic and lying Republicans want to use the scarier sounding term to whip up the Mindless MAGA bunch. I would not believe a Republican if they said my name.

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Jun 10, 2022·edited Jun 10, 2022

Barbara, this is all correct, but might need to be updated. We now have cyberwars where any hostile foreign entity can be working hard to destroy our democracy via campaign donations and backing a potential autocrat, then there is the collection of personal information on our people via social media mining providing the basis for mind control via propaganda machines like fox and oan. There is a new warefare out there that we have to catch up with. The former guy was closer to and admired dictators and we have no idea what their communications have been. And I hope that is all revealed in the J6 Hearings. But it is time to update what "a time of war" actually means in this day and age. At least, that is my one or two cents. A lot of our governance laws are in great need of upgrading and closing all loopholes for many things that allowed this travesty to happen. But, there is light in that all (or most) of our shadows have been revealed and we know what is broken and needs to be strengthened. So in the most morbidist sense, I do thank trump and his fellow seditionists for showing us exactly how to kill a democracy in modern times.

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Really neat perspective Pensa! We have been under attack from Russia via social media for years! And then there is FOX, Newsmax etc.

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Barbara, excellent post and I want to thank you! Sedition is the term we should all adopt now and throw that right in the Pro-Rape Party’s face time and time again. We must be relentless in our pursuit of justice and the regaining of our democracy. Our motto should be “All for one. One for all”.

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Well, of course. I stated in comments on Heather's letter from yesterday, that I want maximum punishment for all involved. And that speaks to my point anyway--that I'm worried Meadows will be settled on as some sort of "high enough" official peace offering/compromise, so that Republicans will reluctantly agree to SOME sort of "reckoning." That said, I applaud the committee (and no, I don't think it was a given) for going for the jugular on Day One. Bravo. But no, no one's going to die for this--I have no delusions--though I'd personally fly back to the U.S. just so I could attend and throw rotten apples at the event. But it's only violent common criminals that we execute with reckless abandon--actual traitors to our nation get to be recast as Valiant Heroes of the Lost Cause and have statues all over our country. Hell, I'd be surprised if any DC-level official convicted even goes to a real jail.

I wouldn't call it "fearless" golfing. He golfed while he was fuming and downtrodden after losing the election too. It's his "activity" version of wolfing down a plate of cheeseburgers after a bad day.

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If your fears are true than we are a lawless country. Your pessimism and helplessness feeds right into the hopeless narrative. Get a grip and learn from Thompson and Cheney who are the hero’s in this narrative. Can you not get on board and stop this helpless hopeless negative take on everything. Your words have power and are as destructive or more so than the insurrectionist. We should be rejoicing that the truth has been told in a clear succinct way. Get some help for your PTSD and Depression. Recognize the power of your words which feeds the possibility of a negative outcome of the spectacular work this committee has produced. Giving voice to your worries from your position supports the destruction of Democracy. You comment about you would be surprised if any convicted DC level official goes to jail is such a contrast to Liz Cheney ‘s powerful statement of unveiling the truth

It is clear to me just how powerful the word is.

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I do find it hard to read these defeatist comments. We need to undergird and stay strong. It is easy to understand the fatalist attitude, and that is exactly what they want. Makes me more stubbornly determined to fight hard for truth and justice.

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I think the defeatist attitude plays right into the hands of a fascist playbook of wearing people down, overwhelming people with lies and chaos. I am with you Pensa. Despite moments of fatigue I stand tall and firm. The following phrase was in Handmaid's Tale and other sources.

Never let the bastards grind you down.

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💝Hearts are slow to work today! Definitely out of the playbook to grind us down. We have to stand stronger for those for whom the playbook and reality shows like fox have succeeded with their goals of chaos and destruction.

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Defeatism does no one good and always seems to me to be a way out of saying “I told you so.” So what? Whoever thought McCarthy would be taken down with mere truth, especially after the lost souls he left in his wake.

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I hear this constantly from my neighbor who, when he says it, borders on mansplaining. I told him the other afternoon that i refuse to speculate about what will or will not happen.

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We ARE a lawless country! But I think you are too harsh in your criticism. I see doubt and worry, but not resignation and helplessness in his comment.

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Thank you for that! I agree that defeatism plays right into their hands. I was buoyed last night by the sight of this courageous committee and their presentation. It’s the day we’ve been waiting for but I always trusted would come, because we are a nation of laws. The witnesses were honest and compelling and deserve to be applauded as heroes. The truth is coming to light and light shall lead the way.

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I agree, and because humans have such a short attention span, it's important to act immediately on that 'truth will set you free' feeling inspired by the truly courageous accounts we heard last night, and will continue to hear during these hearings. Forward segments of the hearing to friends, use your ripple effect to disseminate knowledge, hope and the will to reclaim our democracy.

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Yes, I concur, a fatalistic, defeatist attitude will be self- fulfilling and is but a hedge against future disappointments. But I say we still have human agency even if our odds for success appear long, for without hope we are truly lost.

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David Frum 6/9/22:

"The single decisive person is: you.

Through the Trump years, weary and defeated observers shrugged that nothing mattered, nothing ever moves the needle. America is two tribes, antagonistic; nothing can budge either one any distance.

This fatalism passed as cleverness, even as wisdom. This fatalism also functioned as an excuse. If nothing can be done, then no one can be blamed for not doing it. If nothing can be done, then we’re all off the hook.

The fatalism was always wrong. The important thing to remember about Donald Trump’s presidency is that he was beaten again, and again, and again. His protective congressional majority was stripped away in 2018. He was twice tainted by impeachment. He was defeated for reelection. His conspiracy to overturn that election defeat was thwarted."

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2022/06/january-6-hearing-congress-insurrection/661234/

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Exactly. BTW, one of the doubting commenters on this thread, Barbara, is probably a troll.

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Love this, Tom. Many thanks for posting!

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"It is clear to me just how powerful the word is."

True, but only if you hear it. Realistically (and not pessimistically), a major problem we face is that, as Tom Nichols has said - the truth may never make it to those citizens who get their news exclusively from Fox, et al. (I'm paraphrasing him - I don't have the exact quote in front of me.) Fox did not cover the hearing, and even presented Tucker Carlson's show without commercial breaks lest bored viewers channel surf and stumble on the truth.

I echo your call to refrain from excessive pessimism, but we also have to be clear-eyed about the battle we face. The truth alone will not win it. To quote the Grateful Dead, "you ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know."

But I'll end on an optimistic note: despite their failure to carry the hearing, it seems to have made some impact among the commenters to other Fox news articles. (I troll them to gather information.) There seemed to be far fewer of the lunatics defending Trump's every mis-deed. We'll carry on.

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I've noticed Fox's retreat from total negativity lately, but I'd also like to comment about whether the hearings will move anyone from TFG's camp. I believe that his core supporters will be unwilling to listen, but there are more moderate Republicans who are growing weary of the hate and antagonism, and the more information that is presented just might at least shake them out of the tree. Last night's hearing was amazingly presented, and I think the rest will be of equal quality. Anyone with an ounce of intelligence will have to pay attention. None of us live in a vacuum, and at some point these hearings will make it through the filter.

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Ah, fellow troll on fox! There were so many positive, non-brainwashed people in the fox youtube channels I visited this morning. It was incredibly refreshing. Not sure why, but maybe because they had Truth to report.

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:-)

Cheeseburgers! Where is heart disease when you need it!

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I've openly prayed for it. It brought me back to religion.

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Comin t' Jesus!

Let's see if it helps. :-)

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Mike S and Robert, you've both made my day. I've done the same thing, with the exception that it hasn't yet brought me back to religion.

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😊😊

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Well, I hope for it daily but it hasn't brought me back to religion. Yet.

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Agree, Daria and it will take a lot to get me back there.

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Is that a reference to fox saying this is all a nothingburger? Steven Colbert had a very funny response to the J6 Hearing of a "nothing burger."

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Plus a great image! For those like me who are usually in bed and asleep by the time the Late Show comes on, here's last night's Colbert commentary on the hearing. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eQ8_X3FFxRU

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Maximum security prison in an undisclosed location might work, although exile might be better. What country would take him and keep him? Does Elbe have a secure prison?

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Guantanamo Bay.

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I have always had a vision of duck l'orange and his comrades at GITMO! No golfing or burgers. Just fish...and no chips! or internet to bother the world. Dreamy...

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"duck l'orange" has made my day. Thanks, Pensa

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It is such a classy way to describe a sh—head, no?

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The country with lots of room in Siberia?

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Elba is a major tourist destination just 10 km. off the coast of Tuscany. Too good for Trump, and the Italians usually only put geriatric criminals under house arrest. St. Helena is still a better choice.

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Just one more reason why it's a shame that Parchman Farm is a State Prison...

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Mar-a-Lago's closed for the summer. He's living, and doing his golfing, at the Bedminster Club, in Jersey.

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Consideraby less

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Yes. I wouldn't call it zero, but I'd simply call it "highly improbable." Unless the Right Establishment totally turns on him somehow. That might be possible, but it's unforecastable at this moment.

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Curious, I checked out Fox and Fox Business this morning. Crickets.

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That's how you know that the hearing was successful.

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Very hard to "heart" this but as optimistic as I try to be...I feel compelled to agree with your conclusion.

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Robert, as to your statement about Americans “sleepwalking”, I was with a group of women yesterday and decided to inquire if any would be watching the J-6 Hearing that evening. The answers I got included “What’s that”, “I don’t like to follow politics”, “No, it will all be lies”. It was clear that I was the only one there who planned to watch and the conversation moved on to more pleasant and neutral topics. I thought to myself, this is how Democracy dies, and was sick at heart.

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I got to watch the hearings until my departure for rehearsal. Almost all of the ensemble had to tear themselves away from the hearings, and almost everyone was recording it. Two got text updates from their spouses. The "almost" included our director (whose husband was watching and recording for her) and one of our musicians who can only be described as a "sleepwalking" person, whose only interests outside music are her grandkids (and great grandkids) athletic/music participation and the "Daisy Ducks" which is a group of former women U of O athletes who support all manner of athletic endeavors at the U of O. I plan to watch as soon as I'm done with my usual coffee and LFAA "social" "hour". 😉

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SO AWESOME! What are you rehearsing?

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The tuba ensemble is playing for the Symphony Guild Garden Walk; it is a fund raiser for the Eugene Symphony, and chamber groups are invited to perform at various gardens. This year, all the gardens are in Springfield in the Historic Washburn District section of town. It is a fun event!

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Ah...LOVE tuba ensembles! Way back when I was at Indiana U, still one of the premier music schools in the country, the faculty member who taught tuba was the legendary Harvey Philips. He probably did as much as anyone to promote the tuba as more than something in a band that just plays the bass line. Way back, he started the tradition of "Tuba Santas" at Christmas and it took off all over the country. He was a real character, gregarious, out-going, and nice as hell. Tubas and double-basses (contra-basses) don't get much time in the spotlight, but their function in an ensemble or orchestra/band is vital! GO ON, GURL!!

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Indiana U stole one of the best conductors I’ve ever sat for; he was offered full professor and tenure there (Black man who couldn’t get tenure at U of O) and away he went. Tuba Christmas (TM by the Harvey Phillips foundation) is still a very popular Christmas event.

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Good for you, Ally! Nice diversion from all of these events.

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If there is a video, I would love to see it. How wondrous. Tubas are center stage.

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I'll see what I can do. It is hard to video from the back row, and I cannot convince my wife to come (she's got a major project she's working on...)

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And there it is. Exactly.

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Jun 10, 2022·edited Jun 10, 2022

I certainly understand your doubt; I have plenty of doubt too. But the confluence of the overturning of Roe, the Repub refusal to act on gun violence, and this may just arouse enough from their sleep to pull us through.

I intend to do all I can to get the corrupt Senators and Congresspeple voted out so we can make needed changes.

And we need to closely monitor our state offices and Boards of election too.

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Yes. All three things you mention are the perfect storm for Dems to grab the narrative in the midterms. Time for us to stop the whining about who isn’t listening to the hearings and what isn’t going to be done and get busy electing Democrats.

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And don't forget taking our voting rights away by making it very difficult to vote!!

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Even more concerning are those states which have enacted laws that allow the state legislature to overturn results and choose the results they prefer.

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Pensa, Marlene and Judith, yes to all of these issues. Still, with Georgia's recent primaries, we had a 212% increase in early voting over the 2020 presidential primary and 168% over the 2018 midterm primary. At first, I was concerned because more Republican votes were cast, but it has recently been revealed that there were apparently many Democrats who voted on the Republican ballots, a slick trick that the Rethuglicans have used for years. They choose the least likely candidate for the opposition party, thus weakening the most likely winner! Right wing radio hosts have been touting this trick for years. Naturally, now that some Democrats have adopted that trickery, the Reps are furious, and want the law changed so that it won't be legal. Funny how turnabout is fair unless the opposition adopts your dirty tricks. Time will tell the result.

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This fooling around with our elections is, or should be against the law and stopped immediately. I hope that is also address in the J6 hearings. Lawlessness needs to end. It is very interesting what you say about a 212% increase-- I am not sure I understand how this "slick trick" works to get dems to vote on repub ballots, though. ??

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Cheryl, I agree with you. While any majority's midterms are dangerous, and Biden is taking a beating on the WORLD's economy and inflation, I still feel that the Republicans are handling Roe, guns, and murdered children so badly that we have a fighting chance.

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Might this report help make a case for the return of the Fai