"They knew who he was" Some did. Some didn't and refuse to relook at their decision. My two sisters are in that camp I am sorry to say. The ones who did see him for what he is - I would posit they would vote for him again. Why? Because of hatred of the Democratic agenda. My own mother, who is a very sweet loving person (but racist…
"They knew who he was" Some did. Some didn't and refuse to relook at their decision. My two sisters are in that camp I am sorry to say. The ones who did see him for what he is - I would posit they would vote for him again. Why? Because of hatred of the Democratic agenda. My own mother, who is a very sweet loving person (but racist), voted for Trump even though she hated him. But she hated Hillary much worse, and what she stood for. There are millions like her. They will vote for the devil himself rather than vote for a Democrat. Any Democrat. Hell I just want them to stay home. Don't have to vote at all. But no - they are so jazzed up they will show up at the polls in droves while the more far left among us are more likely to stay home as a protest.
Hillary: victim of GOP propaganda. The Republicans saw the danger of those two intelligent patriotic Democrats and threw everything the oligarchs could think of at them.
Hillary is a woman in her power. That’s all you need to know about her to understand why the sexists oppose her. Everything else said about her is just empty smokescreen-speak. Even the word “Benghazi“ translates to “woman in her power“ when you look it up on the Internet.
Oh Virginia - even as a political neophite, it was so obvious to "the most casual observer" that Hillary was a giant target for Republicans. They saw here as the personification of the progressive cause, and the potential death of their party. I think they saw that before she graduated college! Certainly when Bill became president. And they were going to pull out all the stops short of an assassination to prevent her from holding a position of power. It was relentless, and ultimately it worked.
While I'm pretty sure your mother must love you, I think that to say she's a "sweet loving person" and then add "(but racist") completely negates the sweet and loving part. Racists, by virtue of being rooted in the ignorant belief that skin color matters more than character, are the very antithesis of sweet and loving.
I think it's up to all of us to not gloss over what racism is, and what it does to society, even if it's embedded in members of our own family. When we "go along to get along," we are in fact giving racism more traction in the world.
I love your perspective. I also understand what Jay is saying. Does being racist negate being sweet and loving? I’m not sure. The remedy for racism and sexism is probably education. I hold out hope for the conversion of a sweet and loving person to the light.
She grew up in the deep south, was a typical "Leave it to Beaver" house wife. In the deep south, racism against blacks was drilled into one's head at a very early age. Still is but not as much as then. White southern folks can be the sweetest persons you have ever met, as long as they know you go to church, and are white (I speak in generalities - there are of course many exceptions). That's my mom. And in the deep south (I think many do not realize this) - the tension between whites and blacks is palpable even today. It is furthered by black folks hatred of white folks (so very justifiable, but not helpful). To the point that black culture down there is designed, in part, to piss off white folks. Or, if not designed to piss off whites, certainly to distance their culture from white culture as much as possible. I would too. But this perpetuates the racism. It is a situation that is going to take a few more generations to level out, I think. That is, unless Republicans take over like we fear they might.
It's unbelievable. I hear you. I know people like that too and have them in my family. They would rather die than vote for a Democrat. Just talked to a friend over the weekend who voted for T the first time but not the second. The first time he hated Hilary so much and thought Trump might be good because he was a business man. I took him to task on that one because Trump was no upstanding businessman!!! I couldn't believe what I was hearing. Our talk continued and this guy, who is a lawyer, was hard pressed to say that the bad things about Trump and the cult are worse than the bad things about the progressive liberals. Huh? Seriously? And he calls himself a middle of the road conservative. It's crazy out there. A crazy spectrum of GOP.
But if, as you say, your relative voted the second time (2020) against Trump, he is in a different category than the diehards who refuse to process the evidence of their own eyes.
Yes, I absolutely realize that. But he is still unable to say that the radical GOP is worse than the progressive left. It is very hard for him to not vote republican. As I said, it's a spectrum.
Jay, I know some voters on the far left do stay home from the polls as a "protest". But I find this thinking completely irrational and baffling. For example, does the segment of Bernie voters who stayed home rather than vote for Hillary really think they taught the Democratic party leadership some kind of lesson by staying home and thus contributing to Dumpster's Electoral College victory? Too many people have a hopelessly idealistic idea of voting, that somehow if they don't get a candidate who fits their idea of perfection, they would somehow be defiling themselves if they said "Oh, well; I liked Other Candidate better" and went ahead and voted for the less objectionable of the remaining alternatives? Imagine if most of the people who wanted Bernie had sucked it up and voted for Hillary instead. She wouldn't have been perfect, but hell, *nobody* is perfect. And we'd be living in a significantly sturdier democracy now.
Not voting for Hillary, withholding your vote out of protest, is an act of complete stupidity. The consequence: 4 years of Trump, America as the world standard for racism and selfish nationalism, the January 6 Conspiracy, etc. And it continues. I wouldn’t want that garbage on my conscience.
"They knew who he was" Some did. Some didn't and refuse to relook at their decision. My two sisters are in that camp I am sorry to say. The ones who did see him for what he is - I would posit they would vote for him again. Why? Because of hatred of the Democratic agenda. My own mother, who is a very sweet loving person (but racist), voted for Trump even though she hated him. But she hated Hillary much worse, and what she stood for. There are millions like her. They will vote for the devil himself rather than vote for a Democrat. Any Democrat. Hell I just want them to stay home. Don't have to vote at all. But no - they are so jazzed up they will show up at the polls in droves while the more far left among us are more likely to stay home as a protest.
Hillary: victim of GOP propaganda. The Republicans saw the danger of those two intelligent patriotic Democrats and threw everything the oligarchs could think of at them.
Hillary is a woman in her power. That’s all you need to know about her to understand why the sexists oppose her. Everything else said about her is just empty smokescreen-speak. Even the word “Benghazi“ translates to “woman in her power“ when you look it up on the Internet.
Oh Virginia - even as a political neophite, it was so obvious to "the most casual observer" that Hillary was a giant target for Republicans. They saw here as the personification of the progressive cause, and the potential death of their party. I think they saw that before she graduated college! Certainly when Bill became president. And they were going to pull out all the stops short of an assassination to prevent her from holding a position of power. It was relentless, and ultimately it worked.
While I'm pretty sure your mother must love you, I think that to say she's a "sweet loving person" and then add "(but racist") completely negates the sweet and loving part. Racists, by virtue of being rooted in the ignorant belief that skin color matters more than character, are the very antithesis of sweet and loving.
I think it's up to all of us to not gloss over what racism is, and what it does to society, even if it's embedded in members of our own family. When we "go along to get along," we are in fact giving racism more traction in the world.
I love your perspective. I also understand what Jay is saying. Does being racist negate being sweet and loving? I’m not sure. The remedy for racism and sexism is probably education. I hold out hope for the conversion of a sweet and loving person to the light.
She grew up in the deep south, was a typical "Leave it to Beaver" house wife. In the deep south, racism against blacks was drilled into one's head at a very early age. Still is but not as much as then. White southern folks can be the sweetest persons you have ever met, as long as they know you go to church, and are white (I speak in generalities - there are of course many exceptions). That's my mom. And in the deep south (I think many do not realize this) - the tension between whites and blacks is palpable even today. It is furthered by black folks hatred of white folks (so very justifiable, but not helpful). To the point that black culture down there is designed, in part, to piss off white folks. Or, if not designed to piss off whites, certainly to distance their culture from white culture as much as possible. I would too. But this perpetuates the racism. It is a situation that is going to take a few more generations to level out, I think. That is, unless Republicans take over like we fear they might.
It's unbelievable. I hear you. I know people like that too and have them in my family. They would rather die than vote for a Democrat. Just talked to a friend over the weekend who voted for T the first time but not the second. The first time he hated Hilary so much and thought Trump might be good because he was a business man. I took him to task on that one because Trump was no upstanding businessman!!! I couldn't believe what I was hearing. Our talk continued and this guy, who is a lawyer, was hard pressed to say that the bad things about Trump and the cult are worse than the bad things about the progressive liberals. Huh? Seriously? And he calls himself a middle of the road conservative. It's crazy out there. A crazy spectrum of GOP.
But if, as you say, your relative voted the second time (2020) against Trump, he is in a different category than the diehards who refuse to process the evidence of their own eyes.
Yes, I absolutely realize that. But he is still unable to say that the radical GOP is worse than the progressive left. It is very hard for him to not vote republican. As I said, it's a spectrum.
Jay, I know some voters on the far left do stay home from the polls as a "protest". But I find this thinking completely irrational and baffling. For example, does the segment of Bernie voters who stayed home rather than vote for Hillary really think they taught the Democratic party leadership some kind of lesson by staying home and thus contributing to Dumpster's Electoral College victory? Too many people have a hopelessly idealistic idea of voting, that somehow if they don't get a candidate who fits their idea of perfection, they would somehow be defiling themselves if they said "Oh, well; I liked Other Candidate better" and went ahead and voted for the less objectionable of the remaining alternatives? Imagine if most of the people who wanted Bernie had sucked it up and voted for Hillary instead. She wouldn't have been perfect, but hell, *nobody* is perfect. And we'd be living in a significantly sturdier democracy now.
I was a Bernie supporter. I will always carry some kind of grudge toward Debbie Wasserman. Whatever. I voted for Hillary.
Yay! And I get it. Thank you for being a hopeful voter who is also pragmatic. There weren't enough of us.
Not voting for Hillary, withholding your vote out of protest, is an act of complete stupidity. The consequence: 4 years of Trump, America as the world standard for racism and selfish nationalism, the January 6 Conspiracy, etc. And it continues. I wouldn’t want that garbage on my conscience.
Your sisters. My father.