Today the Justice Department filed a superseding indictment charging Proud Boys leader Henry “Enrique” Tarrio and four colleagues with up to ten criminal counts, including seditious conspiracy and conspiracy to obstruct an official proceeding, in relation to the January 6 insurrection.
Are we finally going to have a day of reckoning for those who plotted insurrection against the United States? Are those upline — Trump, members of his administration, Republican members of Congress, and loudmouth operatives like Bannon finally going to have their wings clipped? If we let them skate it will be at our peril.
It sounds like, from the indictment, that the grand jury heard some names even if they are not mentioned in this indictment. So, I imagine that some people are worried. Then there is Peter Navarro being arrested....you know that "distinguished public servant". All this has to give pause to those yet not named. And the excellent ending about D-Day. I am quite glad to see the Proud Boys with these additional indictments as they are often around here in Oregon.
It's so intriguing: who was the person known to the grand jury who communicated repeatedly with the Proud Boys' leader, Tarrio, and gave him a document entitled "1776 Returns"? Who wrote the document? Who invited Tarrio to the White House?
One thing we can be sure of: some Republicans aren't sleeping well.
Roger Stone, Steve Bannon, Mark meadows, and or Steven Miller would fit the central casting as a useful idiot link of the unnamed person. What is also obvious is that wealthy donors flew less wealthy former guy radical true believers to DC, paid their hotel and bar tabs, and encouraged them to “get rowdy” at the Capital.
Why, do you suppose, did Garland decide not to indict Meadows for refusing to appear? Is there a chance that he's waiting to charge him with something more serious and doesn't want to taint the DOJ's plans?
There is already so much material he gave them. Yesterday someone explained the uselessness of going too far with people like him because he'll stonewall and refuse to talk anyway. Yes, they probably already have plenty more info at the DOJ. Getting our hopes up? You bet!
Initially, I wondered why Meadows would give them so much information, then slam the door. Perhaps he was hoping that they'd consider his cooperation, and then go away. I understand the consideration of his stonewalling but trying not to get overly excited at the prospect of DOJ having bigger plans for him.
I'm not optimistic. A friend recently told me that her ultra-rightwing brother (not a militia member, to my knowledge) scolded her for being fully vaccinated against Covid, because he knew that the government injected a microchip so that she could be "tracked." My guess is that most of the "boys" have limited intellect.
Oh, that is so sad!. Bill Maher did a routine on how stupid America is - certainly there has to be some limitations if one believes in microchips in vaccines. At the same time. I just participated in a zoom event last night by Red Wine and Blue, suburban moms who have started a movement called the Great Troublemaker Turnout a "Massive relational voter turnout initiative," and they were mostly quite a bit younger than I (!) smart, lively, multi-cultural, inclusive and raring to go beyond where they have already gone. They gave me great hope! https://redwine.blue/the-great-troublemaker-turnout/
Morning Daria and Michael and forum. I want to know the identity of “this individual” who met BIGGS at the access point to the Capitol, put his arm around his shoulders and spoke to him. In other words, the person that let them in.
I am very, very glad of the timing of the DOJ that these indictments of seditious conspiracy have occurred at this moment, immediately prior to the “reveal” by the Jan 6th committee.
Also, my guess is Roger Stone as conduit to Proud Boys and Oathkeepers.
And finally, forum. My patriot blood rises at their audacity at claiming to be a militia and bearing a sole right to claiming “of, by, and for the people” as their battle cry. Last time I checked, the “well regulated” militia I have in mind, the National Guard, were held back for hours until they could get to the Capitol. How dare the former president tell “his” militia to “stand back and stand by” on national TV while on the stage with now our current President. That pauses my spirit every time I think of it and cry about their excuse and reason of “of, by, and for the people”. Seditious conspiracy indeed. How dare they.
You are so right that our constitutional militia is the National Guard, appointed by congress. Bless you and screw the gun industry and the deliberate misinterpretation by SCOTUS of the Second Amendment. How many children, grocery shoppers, religious congregants, and minority citizens would still be alive without that blasphemy?
I remember so vividly on that Jan 6th day of the frustration being reported that the National Guard was stand ready but had not been released yet. Hundreds of them. I remember vividly thinking….”oh no, who is holding back the militia? We are in trouble.”
And then I remember just recently of that same dreaded feeling when I heard of the nineteen officers standing there in that school hallway for so long, being held back by the chain of command. While chaos continued and little lives ended. Same thing, different date. I posted later in the forum, Hope, a link to Politics Girl, Leigh McGowan, who voices my outrage and replies….”We’re done.” https://youtu.be/yMwCixv1D6g
Yes, Politics Girl pretty much nails it consistently. We need more of her and Sen. McMorrow!
Ah, tomorrow is June 9th. I do believe we may have The Reckoning coming. Almost 7 years waiting for Justice. But so much has also been revealed about the trumplican mafia and how easily we can lose our democracy if Trust and Lies compete. Even so perversely blatant on trash talking propaganda machines. Fairness Doctrine is also immediately needed to be reinstated to clean up the seditious swamp talkers.
Ok, lets get our bingo cards ready, this will be a way to have fun for a change, folks! Given the recent hyper reactions by Peter Navarro, he’s my “trump square” (?!) but it could have been Rudy, maybe, but he would have been in the “war room” in the hotel, near the WHite House (, with the candlestick…hmm, now it sounds like a game of Clue!).
I don't think it was Rudy, he has not shown the needed aplomb to write such a document as his friend the iDJiT can't put together two coherent sentences so we have to look a little further down the line not up the line.
Mark Meadows better be lawyering up right now. He’s my bet on the inside man. Rudy couldn’t construct 2 coherent sentences together, and Stone is just to brash and attention seeking. Meadows is Machiavellian, and perhaps more concerned ultimately with his own protection than that of TFG. A sweet plea deal for ratting out the traitor in chief? My fingers are crossed!
I want Trump. He's the center of it all. What he did was well within the boundaries of seditious conspiracy. That kind of sh_t has to be nipped in the bud, completely. I don't know who that mysterious individual is; perhaps he/she will be revealed in the public hearings. But it's Trump who I want - behind bars for the rest of his life. I will be a much happier man if that happens.
I want him behind bars as well. The sad part is he will go to his grave never understanding what happened or how it happened. He's not a part of reality.
I think you are right. He's completely clueless, especially as long as he has his audiences to laugh at his "jokes" and applaud his rants. They belong to him and he to them.
TFG’s family jet with a one way flight plan to North Korea where he spends his life building a coastal golf course retirement village for deposed dictators.
They might be, but those pufferfish republicans appear so full of themselves and ignorant of reality, I am not so sure they are scared....yet! They think trumputin will care for them.
I'd also like to know the identity of the person embedded with the Proud Boys who videotaped them meeting with the Oath Keepers in a D.C. garage, plotting, on January 5th.
Michael, thanks for the links. I couldn't open the NYT link, but do you know whether the militia groups knew that Quested was a filmmaker, or did they think he was simply filming them for posterity? If they were documenting their activities for a scrapbook, they truly are delusional! Maybe they thought they'd be rewarded with cabinet appointments when TFG was returned to office.
"When the committee on Thursday evening holds the first in a series of public hearings scheduled for this month, the two people said, it intends to present live testimony from Nick Quested, a British documentarian who was filming the group with its permission during the riot, and from Caroline Edwards, a Capitol Police officer who was injured, according to videotape of the incident, by a rioter who had been in a conversation moments earlier with one of the Proud Boys indicted on the sedition charge."
"Mr. Quested spent a good deal of the postelection period filming members of the Proud Boys, including Mr. Tarrio, and is considered by the committee likely to have been a witness to their conversations planning for Jan. 6. Mr. Quested had accompanied the Proud Boys to pro-Trump rallies in Washington in both November and December 2020, and was on the ground with members of the group on Jan. 6 when several played a crucial role in breaching the Capitol.
"Mr. Quested was also present with a camera crew on the day before the attack, when Mr. Tarrio met in an underground parking garage near the Capitol with a small group of pro-Trump activists, including Mr. Rhodes of the Oath Keepers. Late in the day on Jan. 6, Mr. Quested and his crew were with Mr. Tarrio in Baltimore, filming him as he responded in real time to news about the riot."
I really like that Dr. Richardson added that ending with Eisenhower, Supreme Allied Commander for D day. What would Dwight say about how far the REP party has fallen from grace? I just can't believe that the NSA doesn't have a lot more communications, encrypted or not from those indicted to those in office or former advisors to TFG. This was a premediated sedition conspiracy.
Ted. I do not think that Professor Richardson can inform, prepare, and unite us more or better than how she has done for the coming weeks. A well informed voice of history has been crucial for the people, all of us, this time.
TK: “ I just can't believe that the NSA doesn't have a lot more communications”, recall, NSA intel is gathered on contacts outside US or outsiders reaching to/from US citizens, the FBI is domestic intel. Recall also that “total information awareness” and call metadata programs at NSA were shut down following leaks. OTOH we are still about to view just “Act 1” of the hearings. There were a lot of phone records subpoenaed in the last 18 months…
You don’t need secret data when TFG and his groups are declaring their intentions with a megaphone on FB, twitter and T.Carlson shows.
And if this was a dictatorship instead of a democracy, there wouldn't have been a First Amendment and they would have been scared to speak their minds. Yet, they don't appreciate the democracy under which they live.
Would the NSA share technology with the FBI for known domestic terror groups committing seditious conspiracy as counterinsurgency, post Charlottesville?
Post- 2001-09-11, one hopes things were supposed to move in the “information sharing” direction. But the buzz in the public mind was foreign threats, less so domestic.
Then Snowden shared NSA technology with the whole world. Then Facebook gathered more personal data —— largely “with user permission,” big fig leaf covering here —— on the world’s population than the NSA or FBI could ever dream of. From 2016-2020, one could assume the DOJ higher-ups did not hold domestic terror threat investigations in high priority - unless they were a threat to TFG.
And so we still are less than 2 years into the post-TFG administration, lots of resetting and catching up to do, but if your department heads aren’t confirmed in the Senate it’s hard to enact any new policies.
I wish modern Kansas politicians had the outlook of Ike of Abilene, Kansas. But Republicans of the WWII generation were polar opposite of the todays Kansas Republican majority, who have fallen into a gutter of John Birch-ism, religious theocracy, and Koch-ist Ayn Rand-ism.
Speaking of Ayn Rand-ism, wasn’t it she who said “The question isn’t who is going to let me, it’s who is going to stop me.”
The current republican mantra, as if they can’t be stopped. Texas sounds like another Kansas, drowning in propaganda spewed by Murdoch and Koch’s. Charles Koch reportedly hates chump, but what a useful idiot he has turned out to be… Attracting other useful idiots like flies to carrion…
He would have words for them like he did for the Nazis of his day. The last great Republican president of the United States, the only one truly worthy of the office in my lifetime.
Through HCR's history lessons I learned that they were at it then. He wanted to continue with FDR's policies, and they were determined to fear Americans with ¨socialism¨and ¨communisim¨. Even after the Civil War that were at it.
Today, I can't believe that the NSA doesn't have a lot more material either.if they truly don't then what is the point of the agency? For goodness sake!!
One would think that if Snowden knew it was possible and is still in exile, maybe they do have tapes and screen shots of those encrypted apps between Manafort and Konstantin Kilimnick..."the sensitive polling data"? But would that also mean the NSA had the evidence from 2016, things we needed during Manafort's trial, but things the NSA didn't need to release because they got Gates to flip? But if they didn't have that capability or evidence in 2016, would the lesson be to make it so for post 2016? To protect against Jan 6th?
Now I understand why I could not sleep well last night and why the likes and comments went late by so many. We face now as great a challenge as General Eisenhower faced in WW2. While Our challenge is an Information Age cyber war against Democracy, it will be equally difficult and will require the same effort. Losing battles in cyber means we would, like Ukraine, face real unrest and real war.
If so, the only way such evidence would come to light would be a major leak; the deep state protects evidence of its reach into the light at all costs.
While it does seem appropriate (to announce it on the anniversary of D-Day), the DOJ strives mightily to be apolitical. Of that I am sure. And this is merely one in a long string of indictments, many yet to come. The summer will be a hot one, and not just because of global warming.
I think all these foot soldiers like the Proud Boys and the Oath keepers were useful idiots, manipulated and brainwashed by Trump starting before the 2016 election, when Trump began repeating his lie that the only way Democrats could win was by cheating. He set the whole thing up. He probably had help from Bannon, who unlike Trump is smart enough to mastermind a national brainwashing campaign of susceptible supporters, and had previously expressed contempt for democracy. The private communications of Tarrio et al show they passionately believed all parts of the Big Lie. Bannon, through mouthpiece Trump, skillfully manipulated all of the conspiracy foot soldiers’ cultural grievances and feelings of diminishing power and place as the culture shifts so that straight, white men are no longer automatically advantaged over everyone else. Bannon through Trump manipulated their need to once again see themselves as brave heroes and the protectors of a glorious cause. These foot soldiers were ripe to be brainwashed by the Big Lie. I’ll be watching the hearings starting Thursday evening with great interest to see how much hard evidence the Jan6 Committee has been able to gather proving the seditious conspiracy was knowingly run straight from the top, with full intent to overthrow a lawful election. It will also be very interesting to see which members of Congress they can prove knew the Big Lie was false and knowingly colluded, and which like the Proud Boys and Oath Keepers were useful idiots who sincerely bought the brainwashing.
It will also be interesting to see if they do present all their evidence about the relative knowledge and intent of the various conspirator members of Congress. If the hearings end, and no evidence about MoCs’ participation is presented, that will be a clue to the Committe’s complex political calculus. After all, if they fully reveal all the evidence on MoCs, the next logical step would be to charge those who knew the Big Lie was false and conspired anyway, with seditious conspiracy. What happens to Congress then? This should be quite a ride.
Roger Stone is written all over this. He and his cadre of evil used the ‘stop the steal’ term prior to 2016. I believe it was during Bush/Gore when he used the phrase.
Thanks for this point, Eileen. I have not been following Roger Stone closely enough. I looked it up and of course, sources I should have seen a long time ago prove your point, for example:
CNN: Stop the Steal's massive disinformation campaign connected to Roger Stone
"...while Stop the Steal may sound like a new 2020 political slogan to many, it did not emerge organically over widespread concerns about voting fraud in President Donald Trump's race against Joe Biden. It has been in the works for years.
Its origin traces to Roger Stone, a veteran Republican operative and self-described "dirty trickster" whose 40-month prison sentence for seven felonies was cut short by Trump's commutation in July.
Stone's political action committee launched a "Stop the Steal" website in 2016 to fundraise ahead of that election, asking for $10,000 donations by saying, "If this election is close, THEY WILL STEAL IT."
He first trotted out the slogan during the 2016 primaries -- claiming a "Bush-Cruz-Kasich-Romney-Ryan-McConnell faction" was attempting to steal the Republican nomination from Donald Trump -- before re-upping Stop the Steal for the general election.
"Donald Trump thinks Hillary Clinton and the Democrats are going to steal the next election," his website said that October.
Stop the Steal briefly resurfaced around the midterms in 2018 -- with Republicans employing the hashtag during a recount in a neck-and-neck Florida race for U.S. Senate -- but it wasn't until 2020 that it really caught fire.
A Stop the Steal Facebook group was managed by a loose coalition of right wing operatives, some of whom have worked with former Trump adviser Steve Bannon. The group amassed hundreds of thousands of followers in little more than a day before Facebook shut it down on November 5 -- the day after it was launched.
Also on November 5, Bannon started his own "Stop the Steal" Facebook group; he changed the name to "Own Your Vote" the following day. It was not removed by Facebook, but the social media company did later remove several other pages affiliated with Bannon.
Elizabeth, there's not a legislator in D.C. or anywhere else who believes the Big Lie. They're simply manipulating the useful idiots further down the food chain to take the heat in the chaos they've created. In my opinion, 90% of the Republicans currently holding office in D.C. should be convicted of sedition. I find it laughable that they claim that the Democrats have to cheat in order to win, since they outnumber the Republicans by 42 million.
Nancy, if you read my comment, you'll see that nowhere do I say that any legislators believe the big lie. By "foot soldiers" I'm referring to the Oath Keepers/ Proud Boys/ many others in the mob who attacked the capital. I hope the Jan6 committee has been able to gather lots of hard evidence that actually proves what is already informally obvious: that a number of legislators who were interacting with the Jan6 planners knew there was a conspiracy to overturn the election, facilitated it, and participated in it. The trick in a conspiracy trial, as I understand it, is finding a paper trail that proves they knew the Jan6 rally on the oval was always intending to attack the Capitol, knew the Oath Keepers and Proud Boys to whom some members gave extensive tours of the Capitol building in the days before Jan6 were not "just tourists" but were in fact casing the joint, knew the goal was to overturn the lawful election. I am obviously not an attorney, but my understanding is that the uphill battle at least with many of these seditious members of Congress will be proving they knew all about the conspiracy and were knowingly participating in it. Us believing it because it's obvious, and lawyers proving it in court, are two different things.
EM - I would not let the Proud Boys or Oath Keepers off the hook by simply being useful idiots. Those kind of people are sporting for a fight of some kind, and they delighted in all this. Not a patriotic bone in their bodies, at least not the patriotism the word is supposed to mean.
I totally agree! I never said they should be let off the hook. Quite the opposite. They should bear the full brunt of the law for their sedition. Let them figure out at their leisure in prison that they'd been had. But the conspiracy goes straight to the top.
"I think all these foot soldiers like the Proud Boys and the Oath keepers were useful idiots, manipulated and brainwashed by Trump starting before the 2016 election, when Trump began repeating his lie that the only way Democrats could win was by cheating. He set the whole thing up. "
Michael Cohen in his book, Disloyal, said that chump's MO was to put an idea into a media and let the masses run with it. This most certainly was chump's intent.
Yes. And we shouldn't underestimate the role of pastors and priests in the manipulating and brainwashing of many of the seditionists, for their own evil (sorry) purposes.
... more likely, for many, misguided - wannabe heroes, prone to bite the baited hook of evil influence perpetrated by major league players who themselves are captive to illusions of grandeur ... truth and love prevail!!
I think that there is indeed an evil; a racially based hatred of everyone not a white male cisgendered heterosexual Christian (of the evangelical variety; insert the obligatory "not all" here if you're one of the real Christians).
Hard to know for certain since so much of this whole sad affair …beginning with the election in 2016…is about not so bright charlatans taking advantage of others like themselves. The JD is taking their shot: there will more be indictments, trials and convictions of the insurrectionists. Has to happen for so many reasons…
Yeah, when the Creswell Chamber of Commerce folded at the start of the pandemic, one of their "traditional" duties was spearheading the annual Fourth of July festivities. 2020 was a "drive by parade" as people decorated their houses and other folks drove by to look; kinda like Christmas lights displays. In 2021, with no organization to sponsor the parade, the PB stepped in and really messed things up. Their parade turned into what you might imagine with the PB and the anti Biden, anti gun regulation crowd. A private business tried to host the fireworks display by "utilizing" a vacant lot (old lumber mill that had burned 15 years ago) without permission and starting a fire with the first batch that was ignited. I had friends who had driven down for the fireworks that felt so unsafe (from both a practical and a political standpoint) that they left.
Every time he showed up on Ari Melber's "The Beat" I laughed. Ari played him like a fiddle. And he kept coming back for more. I wonder if he sold a single copy of his book with that public display of stupid hubris.
They're letting the suspense build. Peter Navarro is a complete buffoon - wrote a book, appeared on Ari Melber's "The Beat", spilling his guts, and now claims Executive Privilege?
One of the best moments in broadcast journalism this year: when Ari tells Navarro, who basically has been incriminating himself on live TV in an interview, says, "You know the Jan. 6th committee can hear everything you're telling me." (Maybe not the exact quote, but this was the gist.)
And remember the time Ari interrupted him with something like, "Sir, you do realize you are describing a coup?" I think that was the one where he was bragging about his "Green Bay Sweep."
Classic. People like Navarro are so incredibly self-absorbed and so love to hear themselves talk that they don't grasp what they're actually communicating. Or maybe these interviews were his attempt to normalize blatant illegality.
Crazy how similar Putin's invasion/genocide and the tfg's Jan 6th seditious conspiracy need confronting. I think we do need to escalate both in order to resolve them. We need to put both bullies' in their place. We need to confront both before its too late. These types will not stop, until we force them to stop. tfg and radical republican party with the law, and Putin by force. Both only get stronger till they get taken down for good.
“If we let them skate it will be at our peril.” That, Daria, is my fear — that tfg and his nearest and dearest will never receive their just deserts.
So, at one with Ike, I say:
“‘[The DOJ’s] task will not be an easy one. [Their] enemy is well trained, well equipped and battle-hardened. He will fight savagely. But this is the year [2022]!... The tide has turned! The free [people] of the world are marching together to Victory!’”
Oh Rowshan! If only…………. But the truth is that they will never be defeated. They are shape shifters and will morph and evolve and will always be with us. They Are Us. They are like destructive habits. Addictions. How do you treat addiction? The “hate-drug” pipeline is making too many people incredibly rich. I wish, I hope the big fish are brought to justice over the Jan 6th Insurrection. But what are the Vegas-Odds of that, really?
It gives me pause to wonder what is the current state of the Proud Boys and the Oath Keepers... Are they shaking in their collective army boots? Are they conspiring new and dastardly plots? Have they joined forces? Are they now the Proud Oaths? Or the Boy Keepers (I kinda like that one...)?
What does one do when everything they once believed becomes toxic to their own freedom? Are the fringe elements trying to quietly slip away into obscurity? Methinks they have been fully infiltrated and will be watched carefully for the rest of their lives.
I think ur right. FBI has layers of under covers and CI’s that don’t know each other in these domestic terror organizations. Once the ringleaders are locked up, I see no reason not to designate them terrorist organizations.
I recall (I think, I’m old) that the FBI stopped trying to infiltrate white supremacist groups during Obama admin. Couldn’t believe it since I saw first hand the reaction to Obama’s win in rural Texas. They have been toxic forever, growing more so with chump.
I don't think the fringe elements are quite yet ready to slip away. I hope they've been fully infiltrated...if so we may be able to finally get the goods on Big Daddy.
Back in the late 70s, I recall straight guys I knew at college refer to gay men as "boys" using a fey voice. I always think about this when I hear "Proud Boys" as while I am entirely sure some are gay, I tend to think that runs against their doctrine.
With all these humorous versions of Oath Keepers/Proud Boys (Boy Keepers is a good one), I keep wishing that, during his so-called presidency, Trump's tweets had been labeled "quacks" and that he would have been given the nickname "Donald Duck", since he was so fond of giving nicknames to other people (Crooked Hillary for example). Maybe a copyright violation or something.
So far, there is no evidence that we will have a "day of reckoning" for those that incicited the Proud Boys to violence and led the Proud Boys to believe the election had been stolen.
The Proud Boys seem to be the the DOJ punching bag around January 6th when, in fact, those guys are just as much a victim of Donald Trump as the poor woman who was shot trying to climb through an internal door window, or the poor Capitol police officer who died from bear spray in his face.
The Proud Boys actually "believed" what they were writing and saying. They were operating in good faith with information that led them to believe they were saving the United States, not attacking it. After all, their information was likely coming directly from Donald Trump, the actual President of the United States and on Jan 06 Donald Trump, on TV, asked them to attack the Capitol.
But, the people providing that (false) information to the Proud Boys? What has happened to them? The REAL seditionists.
Those folks continue to live the high life at Mara Lago, and other posh American locations, every day, all day.
The foot soldiers of the sedition caucus are the low-hanging fruit. Their successful prosecution (if there is one) CANNOT be seen as the be all and end all of the investigation. As you say, the people who created this mess are the real seditionists, and they were and are residing at the top levels of government with the intent of destroying our democracy. This investigation is like an onion; many layers. We cannot stop at the first layer.
Mike, and with a Supreme Court Justice. BUT, I don't in the least consider the PBs or Oath Keepers or members of any other pseudo-militia group victims because each individual, in concert with others, organized, bought weapons, and "trained" far in advance of the election and aftermath that culminated on the attack on Congress. Were they the masterminds? Surely not. There are, as you say, powerful, wealthy people who are the puppetmasters. And there is Fox News with the constant stream of poison supporting insurrection and lies. The fact that the upline leadership of the insurrection, including Trump, hasn't been brought down (yet) in no way makes these thugs victims. Stupid and gullible? Yes. Victims, no.
Mike, I can't agree that the Proud Boys are victims. Calling for war makes them aggressors regardless of who their general is. It's the general....in this case, tRump, who needs to be included in the charge of sedition and add treason!
And they enjoy the freedoms of adult members of our society. If they are too immature to make decisions for themselves, perhaps those choices need to be taken away from them. As they were taken away from “ the poor woman who was shot trying to climb through an internal door window”. She chose to put herself in that situation and suffered the consequences of her actions.
The white supremacist evil existed long before chump, as we all know. Chump shined his benevolence on them and they flourished. They always had their power in Congress. LBJ knew them well. None ever suffered for it to my knowledge, but the boldness of the foot soldiers (hate on the ground) now may change that. Of course, the money will keep rolling (hate in the upper echelons).
Correct. Republican Members of Congress, are, apparently, still enjoying their nightly adventures in sexual deviancy based on Madison Cawthorn's statements.
Interesting. If, with the abundance of evidence regarding the Proud Boys sedition, they can't be convicted, how then can we expect the creator of lies and trasher of the nation might be found guilty in our courts under our laws? Like the Brown Shirts of 78 years ago, neither their followership nor ignorance makes them victims in this drama that is our present-day fight for our nation.
Mike, they are not to be excused! People are responsible for their own acts. That defense and exculpation would be like “I was only following orders” so I am not responsible.
We are, or our democracy will surely perish and evil will prevail. We cannot. We just cannot allow that to happen. There will be, in any event, a great upheaval in our country. One we cannot avoid. One we will endure.
Daria, I write both to amplify your justified concerns and also to amplify the prevailing view that the outcome of the Select Committee hearings this month largely will rest with DOJ. Though I’m not an attorney, my diligent analysis of the facts released/leaked to the public has led me to conclude that there is sufficient factual predication both to indict and convict a number of high-level officials up to and including Trump. Simply put, unless DOJ starts holding Trump and his coterie accountable, I expect the anticipated Republican counter-programming largely will derail the Select Committee’s narrative, regardless of how reasoned and compelling.
Yes. Draw a line from the Committees investigation to the only department of government who can do anything with the revelations. If DOJ doesn't act, it's all just theater.
But there is another impact of the January 6th Committee. It may guide voters this fall to reject Republicans who tout the "Big Lie". And there are many. Will such evidence make enough of a difference? It won't change MAGA minds - those brains are too far gone with rot. But there are a lot of Independents and Democrats who typically don't turn out for mid-term elections. Will this rile them up to defend democracy?
I read that the Committee has hired a former ABC exec with a reputation for putting together powerful video presentations. Perhaps the show will get lots of eyes and make a difference?
Get out the vote. More than money, the vote is the voice of the people. The only reason we have this panel and this DOJ is that more of us voted for Biden and Democratic representation than against them. This civil war will be fought and won with ballots, not bullets.
My fear is that these public hearings, however important and well-produced, will be preaching to the choir. From what I understand Fox News will have alternate programming.
I doubt whether the audience will include those who have believed the big lie up to this point or create enough cognitive dissonance to put a dent into the hardened beliefs they are operating under. November is not that far away and I can imagine those believers and beginning doubters to come out and vote in order to validate what they want to believe.
I’m not so sure. This programming will be too much for them to resist thinking they can easily negate it. Too many of their heroes involved for them not to watch.
I too hope that. After watching the Senate trials and the Hillary investigations, etc, I was surprised by how many folks who said " Oh, I missed that" or "I don't watch stuff like that, all theater, no substance" or something else to that effect. Yet, they had an opinion based on the "facts."
My thought is that Merrick Garland is holding his fire until the Jan6 public hearings because for his charges to stick, he needs as much public awareness of the factual evidence and as much nationwide outrage and as many million demands for justice as possible.
Elizabeth, Thank you for your positive outlook.Indeed, I’m aware that such notables as Attorney and former US Prosecutor Glenn Kirschner and The Washington Post Opinion Writer Jennifer Rubin hold the same view. Still, my sense is that whether DOJ is investigating, or will be investigating, potential crimes by Trump or his inner circle remains an elusive and consequential question.
Barbara, that is indeed the question. Is the DOJ poised to take action in concert with the damning revelations of the Jan6 Committee hearings, and indict the senior Jan6 coup plotters, including Dumpster? Or will they let the moment pass, ie. fail to confront this treason, and thus become the Department of Oh Well Never Mind?
Kathleen, While a part of me relates to your hope for “theatrics,” another part feels uneasy about people for whom what happened on January 6th needs further attention-getting.
Barbara, we are in synch, once again. In fact, my biggest concern is that the anticipated Republican counter-programming will turn the hearings into another made for TV, 3 ringed circus with support from Carlson, et al., at Fox. I'm cringing already.
Yes, action needs to happen before the midterms or it won't get the chance to progress. And if it is all handled well, the voters will vote differently and any remaining issues will get more time for that action and completion. It's occurred to me that unless the Fox-types of counter-information are really busy Thursday night, regular Fox watchers will quickly see that absolutely every other media site is covering the hearings. It is going to be interesting, for sure.
Deborah, My hope is that the broad swath of the country who are not 2020 election deniers tune in and then join us in the fight to build a truly pluralistic democracy.
EXACTLY. This is what I've been saying all along. It's great to go after the "small fry" (and yes, Tarrio and his ilk ARE small fry), but I am no longer even interested in these arrests and charges. I'll get excited when I see indictments (for sedition) for Trump. Bannon. Boebert. MTG. Gosar. Hawley. Cruz. Eastman. Mastriano. Powell. Giuliani. Etc., etc.
Until then, this is all nothing but political theatre.
I hope it is more peeling of an onion than it is political theater. These indictments do not reveal anyone higher up the chain than the equivalent of a buck sergeant in a military command. This sedition goes all the way to the top. All. The. Way.
No this is not political theater, it is trial in the court of public opinion, essential to preventing alignment with "the small fry" as well as the big guys. We only have one chance to kill the king.
My concern is that it will also be at our peril if the DOJ indicts Trump or members of his minions. The Founders were concerned that a standing military could be used to oppress the population, thus the inclusion of the phrase a "militia being necessary to the security of a free State." Ardent 2nd Amendment loyalists see gun ownership as a guarantee against tyranny. The GOP has been so successful at demonizing the Democratic Party that they are being painted as tyrants that require, if needed, violent removal from power. You can hear it in the rhetoric of Tarrio and others: it is 1776 again, they are the liberators throwing off the shackles of oppression, it is time for war. I fear that if Trump is in fact indicted, we will see uprisings throughout the nation that will make January 6 look like an ice cream social. It is not a reason to back down, but I fear we need to be prepared for the worst.
Well said Daria. Have we finally reached the boiling point? The teapot seemed to have taken a long time to boil. The DOJ cannot be content to let that pot simmer. This is our Democracy on the line.
Linda, yes! The insurrection, actions leading up to it and the aftermath, the fact that arrest of all attackers were not made on that day is a big part of the problem. Of course, arrests couldn't be made on the 6th what with most of the law enforcement fighting the mob. Still, we have to be able to get to the top of the pyramid to have true closure. Will we ever see that happen.
Daria, what truly concerns me was an NBC poll stating that there are less people today convinced that Trump was part of the Insurrection than following the act. I don't know the figures, I was flipping through radio stations as I was driving. Although, I believe it was a double digit drop.
Will the upcoming televised hearings be a come to Jesus moment for them or will they pass it off? I believe the disinterest comes from the gap in time from the Committee to bring forth evidence.
"Clipping their wings" may not be enough. I've become fearful that there will not be meaningful dialogue from the MSM as well as republican leaders even given overwhelming evidence.
Fox "News" announced today it won't air the hearings, one of the most momentous events in the country's history. It's not surprising but points out the power of an organization devoted to deluding its audience with propaganda. Fox News viewers need to hear the truth and come to grips with the fact they have supported an attempt to overthrow the federal government based on arguably the most devious, destructive lie ever told in the U.S. Instead, Hannity and Carlson will continue the lie and, as well, lie about the J6 committee's work during Thursday's kickoff hearing.
One would hope some Fox viewers might ask themselves why can't they see the hearings and get a clue. Meanwhile, the rest of the country is about to be astounded by the committee's findings. The professor has set the stage perfectly for the drama that's about to unfold.
I was thinking last night after Robert Reich spoke about how much of our stock market is owned by foreign sovereign wealth funds...40%. That 40% represents a good amount of leverage. And now hostile foreign governments can manipulate the stock market to crash when enemies disagree with our President's policies, like sending aid to Ukraine, or Climate Change, or Human Rights. And this manipulation can be timed in the run up to an election. So when we quote, "Its the economy stupid", that has a lot more meaning now, than when President Clinton first said it. And then I thought, you know, how much of FOX is owned by foreign sovereign wealth funds? Could the same true for Rupert Murdoch? Could a media titan be leveraged to work in concert with foreign governments to degrade one party of the other for his profit and the detriment of Democracy in this country? For this I have no proof, but it seems like something now so obvious that it would worth a deep dive by journalist looking to win more than a Pulitzer.
At this point, nothing would surprise me. We know that Fox's top propagandists parrot messaging coming from Russia and Hungary. There's no telling what the level of coordination or inducement actually is. As for leveraging the market, that would be extremely difficult to prove. Then again, some things out in the open, such as the Saudis limiting oil production to further jack up gas prices and hurt Biden.
Saudis just announced today they are increasing production. Your news is "old." Probably has something to do with Biden announcing he would go visit He Who Shall Not Be Named who he said he wouldn't see.
All the more reason to accelerate Electric vehicles. But even that can trigger the Saudi's to start manipulating the supply of oil sending us into a recession. Same way Russia messes with Ukraine and Europe with oil and gas prices, the Saudi's do to us. They can force a recession in the run up to an election and we are vulnerable. And Republican's won't say anything about it, as long as serves their purpose to power.
It is not just our economy that is dependent on oil, Republican power is rooted in the oil industry. Our democracy is at threat from oil. How much of US oil stocks and bonds are owned by hostile foreign sovereign wealth funds? They are shareholders with leverage over both the corporate leadership of our oil companies and refineries, and through political donations they have levers in DC that they can push. When you want to sway an election, just spike the price of oil, cause a recession and ....whhhhaaala, "regime change in 'merica". This is how the Saudi's meddle.
Exactly, we need to be able to deal with seditious infowars in our own country. This is not freedom of speech, this is inciting sedition and brainwashing. How do we shut these machines down?
What you're describing doesn't require some deep conspiracy, just enough money flowing through well established, but not-so-very visible channels. That kind of media can be trained like an animal; enough tasty treats and the desired behavior becomes habitual.
Exactly. It’s more than just riling up the base when riling up the base is exacerbated by Russian trolls and given false likes by trolls an bots for false amplification. What is thought to be popular is false, and the QOP doesn’t believe what is really going on. “He who is manipulated is turned into a thing.”- Victor Klemperer
Rupert has been working against Democrats since Ronnie, and the government since it fell into Dem hands in the 90’s. He has been a master manipulator since 1980, by Republican design. God knows what else he does. He wreaks havoc on an international scale.
As HCR has pointed out "Fox News" is not about news, but Fox News Corporation is about entertainment. That's why they can't be sued for spreading false news. You are right, we have the better news channel here, and it is about to be a bit entertaining.
It was just a gimmick to avoid truth-telling. Has been from day one. Ailes loved that they got the fairness doctrine ditched and had Frank Luntz to make Schitt smell like roses. Newt and Grover helped but their Schitt never had Frank’s “Buckley” style.
I hear you Jeri - what boggles the mind is the fact that so many people buy the lie - I trust they will feel the earth move when those lies go slip-sliding away - and they will, in due time ....
Seems to me Murdoch could be sued into submission if enough money were thrown at the project. Oh wait, I think I hear lawyers knocking at my door already. Sorry, I don't have that kind of money. Head over to Hollywood or Silicon Valley.
😀 ... actually Bill, I don't know the hard facts - my sense is that Mr. Murdoch and his ilk already are flat on their backs, feet in the air - submissive to powers beyond their control - human laundromats for unidentified economic interests ....
Don't forget Hannity is implicated in J6, so he's probably distancing himself from reporting on the investigation to preserve his objective journalistic integrity.
“Journalistic integrity” that you couldn’t find with a microscope. Rupert thinks that his ownership of the WSJ is cover enough for Fox. Hope somebody proves him wrong before we all die of his lies.
All the easier for those Fox talking heads to filter the Committee’s revelations to their watchers. “Who you going to believe? Me, or your own lying eyes?”
It will help if we flood fox propaganda channel posed a version of Michael Bales' great question that I am about to dribble on them:
" Fox Viewers: Ask yourself why fox propaganda machine refuses to show you the most important, live hearings of our history this coming Thursday evening.
Fox supports the attempts to overthrow the federal government based the most devious lie ever told in the U.S. Hannity and Carlson plan to spew lies about the J6 committee's work during Thursday's kickoff hearing at 8:00 pm. They want to keep you ignorant. That is how authoritarians prefer their people. You are free to go to other stations to learn Truth. Do allow fox to leave you behind. These hearings have been described as "Bombshells," "Information that will blow the roof of the house off."
Six sessions that will mark the culmination of an inquiry that has involved more than 1,000 interviews and reviews of more than 125,000 records. Taken together, the work represents the most comprehensive record yet of the deadly assault, and which panel members have come to believe stands out as only the most visible evidence of a broader plot to undermine American democracy — one that emanated from the White House. And the intentions to murder Mike Pence."
I know it is way too long for the cult to read, but education of this importance to the brainwashed cannot be reduced to a one-sentence meme.
I feel we have the power in this cyberwar to go directly to the source of the brainwashing machine. We must try, even though it gives me a stomachache to visit the Alt Reality Machine, I do it to fight against fascism which will be much worse.
Fox News…. like so many “Yellow Journalists” before it…is headed for the ash heap of history. In the meantime they’ll make money with their disinformation that plays to the fears of their audience. Restrictions against this sort of so-called “free expression” are necessary and inevitable because in a true democracy their heinous diatribes aren’t news; the same goes for so much of what is now on the internet on sites like FB. Ultimately, it is the responsibility of each person to make up their own mind about how they decide react to the flow of information, disinformation, propaganda, advertising and beliefs that stream out of a culture. A good democracy like ours can be resilient against so much of the dreck, but yelling “fire” to create panic, for profit? We really shouldn’t have to tolerate THAT as “news”….
Along with the RNC’s refusal to participate in the next presidential debates, this decision by FOX solidifies the commitment to propaganda and ignorance of the right in this country today.
Anybody surprised. Fox viewers cannot hear the truth anyway. They have no ears. Why we will remain the “Divided” States of America. They won’t question the Fox stance. They will just slurp the slop.
I am not surprised in the slightest. I again tried to engage with facts regarding just why gas prices are so high. I was met with resounding rebuttals of "libtard" and "get the facts, not fiction". I love their vast breadth of information and critical thinking skills <sarcasm font>
Michael, isn't it possible that Fox viewers will wonder why they aren't seeing their beloved Fox folks go after the hearings live, and then will be forced to see what all the hubbub is about? They might actually see truth....imagine that!
While I don't do any social media, I am trusting that people like Ally (who has a lot more tolerance for the right wing fools than I) will disseminate some of this on their fb and such accounts. Perhaps a bit will seep through to them but I am not holding my breath. The few conservatives that I interact with---the hypocrisy is absolutely incredible!
Well, Fox dares not air the hearings while at the same airing their fake "facts" and other anti-Democrat programming.
There are a good many R's who, while they do love hearing their rightwing narrative embroidered and their confirmation biases upheld, are not immune to doubt and disgust. Those would be the more centrist R's who have been in hiding while the radical rightwing fringe has been emboldened and winning primaries over their more moderate and competent fellow R's (think Blake Masters of Arizona or Kash Patel with his utterly disgusting lickspittle tale of propaganda for toddlers).
My mind is going in strange but understandable directions tonight. For the "...not the imposition of the will of a tyrannical minority on the rest of us" my mind saw the Supreme Court as the tyrannical minority imposing their will on half of us. When Eisenhower "reminded the men that they were fighting for the right of individuals to determine their own futures" again felt anger that "the right of individuals to determine their own futures" would no longer include all women. I had just read this article: https://www.nytimes.com/2022/06/06/opinion/democrats-midterms-abortion-roe.html on how the overturning of Roe could be the issue that would determine the midterm elections. If my anger on this is any indicator, you're darn right it will. Let's all channel our anger into something constructive like bending the arch of justice for women in the midterm elections. We, the People, all of us including Women this time.
If women's right go, it will be much easier to trample the rights of others by rich, white men. It is a much bigger thing than most of us realize. Much more than the tip of the iceberg. The Supreme Court is now a tool of the autocracy and using the originalist theory as an excuse to do their bidding.
And we can take comfort now in the fact that Merrick Garland is so conservative in his use of the powers of DOJ. He's not one to leave anything to chance in these kinds of indictments. These guys have the Sword of Damocles hanging over their necks, the guillotine is just down the hall. You can bet they're going to name Names. And all those "individuals known to the grand jury" should be quaking in their Florsheims.
I'm already planning to stay up crazy late hours, push everything else aside. I've waited for more than 18 months to learn the truth about what happened, and I don't want to miss even a minute of it. I cannot believe that I'm alive at a time when democracy is under direct assault in the United States of America by a whole cast of unsavory, unethical, unprincipled men and women. I hope I live long enough to see them get the punishments they've earned.
I have been waiting since the 2016 election night for this moment. I am also heartened that what happened to the Mueller Report, which I am sure will also be used, will not be allowed to happen to the "multi-tentacled" J6 investigation and hearings. What a tangled attempted trainwreck has been happening for almost 7 years plus.
Having lived in Florida in the eighties, I am not surprised at the situation there. Leaving there in a station wagon with my three children in car seats strapped in the back was the best move I ever made, both for them and for me. I wake up each morning thankful to have escaped.
I studied Germany in the 1930s and used to discount the factors not present here. But suddenly we have the big lie, inflation, and conflict over sexual revolution with the bad guys indulging AND persecuting. Too too similar except that everyone is just worried about the day to day. My siblings are fascists. It takes a deep breath to say that.
Thank you, as always. Having just watched Rachel Maddie on MSNBC, seeing twice just how precarious our state is. After a lifetime of watching American politics (I am 88) tonight am totally convinced that Republicans will destroy democracy if they (with the aid of the Koch web and oligarchs) can. Time to write more GOTV postcards and hope voting will survive the GOP onslaught.
The Oathkeepers and the Proud Boys are not members of the Boy Scouts, kids that join a group for camaraderie, fun and learning. What is the reason for these men to band together in a gun toting violent group? Against isolation and loneliness? Their loyalty to each other and to what they perceive as fighting for Trump and Country is as misguided and dangerously naive as adolescents, to believe their ragtag group could fight against the United States of America in 2021. And win. Did they think of consequences? Some have blamed TFG and his ilk and said they were “used.” Easily recruited and taking the fall for TFG and his followers? Too late.
In her 1951 classic The Origins of Totalitarianism
Hannah Arendt paints loneliness as “the common ground for terror” and explores its function as both the chief weapon and the chief damage of oppressive political regimes.
NBC News reports that fewer people are blaming the Jan. 6 insurrection on TFG. That the DOJ has announced these charges against the Proud Boys can hopefully awaken understanding that the event was a treasonous uprising,, and the conspiracy directing it came from members at the top of the administration, most likely including TFG. As we begin the voting processes that will culminate with the midterms in Nov. I pray a revolution will happen, one in which the voice of the majority of citizens is heard and respected, one in which the efforts to limit, subvert, and suppress the vote fails. Get to the polling places, and choose the candidates that will dedicate themselves to us, to the people.
People must not only get out and vote, but also encourage others to vote. Specifically, per an Op-Ed piece published recently, focus on certain states and even on the single issue of abortion, (especially those ages 18-40, in my opinion) as stated below:
[Edit: by Josh Marshall who is the editor and publisher of Talking Points Memo, quoted by Robert Hubbell]
"The campaign message is clear: If you want to protect Roe, give us those majorities. If this is your passion, here’s where to channel that passion. These are the Senate seats we need to hold (in New Hampshire, Arizona, Georgia and Nevada) and here are the ones we need to win (in Pennsylvania and Wisconsin and possibly in Ohio, Florida and North Carolina). With those commitments in hand, one question should be on the lips of every Democratic candidate. Will you make a firm commitment to never vote for a federal law banning abortion nationwide?
Few, if any, Republicans would be able to make that pledge. And their evasions wouldn’t just make them look ridiculous; that would put squarely on the table the very real threat that Republicans would enact a nationwide abortion ban as soon as January 2025. That could prove enough to win Senate races in Pennsylvania, Wisconsin and Ohio."
TFG is getting a free pass as DOJ blames the victims of Trump's attempted coup.
The Proud Boys are the DOJ punching bag around January 6th when, in fact, those guys are just as much a victim of Donald Trump as the poor woman who was shot trying to climb through an internal door window, or the poor Capitol police officer who died from bear spray in his face.
The Proud Boys actually "believed" what they were writing and saying. They were operating in good faith with information that led them to believe they were saving the United States, not attacking it. After all, their information was likely coming directly from Donald Trump, the actual President of the United States and on Jan 06 Donald Trump, on TV, asked them to attack the Capitol.
Mike. PB and Oath leaders have never “believed” any of their own sh*t nor have operated in good faith. They will cry that in their defense in a courtroom but mock it when recruiting their members.
Punching bag. Please.
Get the woodshed ready. DOJ is just starting to open the can of whoop ass.
Ooooh, Lady Justice is smiling as the "can of whoop ass" opens for the world to see. This is not just about America, the rest of the world is watching and many are rooting for the oldest democracy to prove it is a better option than autocracy or fascism, even to its own fricking homegrown terrorists and congress people. ...A Democracy that will require some tweaking and improvements in our next phase.
Yes, to date TFG has gotten a pass. Often, Prof. HCR has noted that the announcements issued by the Jan. 6 Committee indicate that the investigation has concentrated on low-hanging fruit. But as these rioters gave up more and more information, the chain of responsibility has revealed ever more high level participants who have been subpoenad and most of whom have given evidence. The only way TFG will be indicted is with the iron-clad evidence mounting against him. It is a travesty that his party acquitted him in the impeachment trial. Unless the work of the Committee can disclose the conspiracy at the highest level, TFG will walk. Which brings me back to my exhortation that voters even cast ballots in primaries. Here in Iowa, there is a slight chance that we can vote Chuck Grassley out. It's a long shot, but I believe we have to make this system work for us at the ballot box to keep it a democracy.
DOJ is going up the ladder, putting more pressure on these seditionists to name names. They are not victims. They are grown men who call themselves boys and who, fully armed, tried to overthrow our government.
Mike I am so glad to hear you say this. I am watching the charges yesterday thinking that these Proud Boys were the fall guys. Weren't they also Hispanics? I mention this to you not because of your nationality but because you are the first person I know to question this situation.
As others have mentioned, the Proud Boys are not innocent babies. However, it is likely that they did believe what Trump was telling them, did think that they were coming to save "America" and that they were not, necessarily, criminals.
Like most others, I refer to the 45th President of the USA as "TFG," taking the cue from President Biden, who routinely refers to him as "The Former Guy." Lately, however, my habit has a darker turn. Not "The Former Guy," but "That F**king Goon."
If they don't believe TFG sponsored it, just who do they believe? It was spontaneous? As Mencken said, "Nobody ever went, broke underestimating the intelligence of the North American public."
"Rep. Marjorie Taylor Greene posted a tweet Saturday declaring that “today and everyday is 1776” only hours after denying under oath that she knew the term was sometimes used as far-right shorthand for violent uprising." April 23, 2022
You are correct about the impunity aspect. It is depressing to watch these people damage a Democracy so easily. It's gotten really bad lately with the upcoming January 6 Committee results, and 2022 midterms elections. They repeatedly mention that they will impeach President Biden and Vice President Harris. They repeatedly talk of imprisonment and execution of their political enemies "when" they win in 2022. Gaetz is walking free of his charges. Roger Stone, Steve Bannon, Alex Jones, Tucker Carlson, and others are louder and more arrogant each day. They gain fame and fortune over the carcasses of Democracy and Decency in this Country and Lumbaugh showed them how to do it.
And now I notice the media increasingly talking up Rittenhouse's antics. He was in the news today firing off a semi-automatic gun and daring a sitting United States President to take it from him. This guy is a murderer and the media follows him. He is on his way to becoming another American Dark Prince.
So sorry to be such a downer today. It's a rainy dreary Summer here which just adds to everything. I'm watching vaccinated and boosted people around me get covid. Mild cases but still scary. And why? Because the dark Princesses and Princes decried vaccinations.
I don't know where your "here" is, but it is the same in my section of the Pacific Northwet. Dreary, rainy and depressing news all combine to keep us down.
Barbara, when an observer writes down a provable fact, that is not a downer! That is just today's reality. Thanks for being willing to do.
Yes, the nuts are running loose and being amplified through social media.
I encourage you to be optimistic though. The Mean Value Thereom applies to everything, even far right nuts. So, although they MAY prevail, the probability that they do is lower than that they don't.
Thanks. "the mean value theorem states that at some interior point the instantaneous change is equal to average change of the function over the interval." So. In other words over time their chances of winning diminish. Right?
Voting her out isn't enough. There needs to be consequences. It is implied that our leaders be held to a higher standard of conduct. It's ethical, right? Green has lowered the bar on the ethics and behavior allowed of our leaders, significantly, and that needs to be addressed.
It seems we need Oath Police for our elected officials. ugh, words have been so tainted and spit upon by the alt right. Even the most important word in a democracy to uphold Oath.
What many/most of these followers of TFG and the repubs have in common is following in the first place. Watching TFG never pay the price for corruption, they all believe they too are above the law. They don’t understand where they are in the hierarchy. We’re all waiting to see what’s next.
While I find it encouraging that these bottom feeders are getting what they deserve, it will be for naught if those higher up the food chain aren’t held accountable as well.
I fear that we will see a replay of the 2008 financial crisis, where not a single Wall Street executive was charged with a crime. I desperately hope that I am wrong.
He wasn't exactly in prison. He was in jail custody, pending trial (there is a difference.) Also.... that he was permitted to kill himself is a travesty.
Trump would never have the guts to do that. He will just sit in front of his little mirror grooming his dyed hair until it falls out. The worst thing for this modern narcissist— no mirrors, no internet or phone or outside information. Oh, and no McDonalds take out. Give him newspapers and books. Newspapers and Books! Hahahah! ;-) !!
Yeah... it doesn't jump out at me. And, one or two nighters like our "boy" Navarro do not count. Rikers Island like poor ole Jeffrey san... now, THAT is jail. None of this ankle-bracelet -girls-town pussy stuff like our ole sweetheart Martha got either. That kinda treatment of the privileged(?) is, like it or not, an item on the "Supremicist Platform" which they were going to 'put an end to' with their Jan 6th attack. The attack would have only made it worse. But, in their minds, they just wanted to kick some ass and 'take no prisoners'. And, for anyone who wonders what that last little phrase means..., it means to 'kill em all dead', hence no prisoners. Not everyone know that, even tho it's pretty obvious once one takes time to digest it.
"The DOJ filed an amended (“superseding”) indictment against the leaders of the Proud Boys alleging “seditious conspiracy.” The superseding indictment is here:
Read pages 8 through 23 to see the minute-by-minute description of the “acts in furtherance of a conspiracy” to interfere with the count of electoral ballots on January 6, 2021. Seditious conspiracy cases are notoriously difficult to prove, but the detail in the superseding indictment suggests that the DOJ has the evidence necessary to convict the defendants.
"The timing of the superseding indictment indicates that the January 6th Committee is putting pressure on the DOJ to pick up the pace of its own efforts to prosecute those involved in the insurrection on January 6th. Good! The upcoming hearing on Thursday of this week will likely increase the pressure on the DOJ exponentially. The Brookings Institution has published a guide to the January 6th hearings titled, Trump on Trial: A Guide to the January 6 Hearings and the Question of Criminality:
Per the report, it considers the following questions (among others):
"[W]hether Trump as a matter of law conspired with his outside counsel John Eastman, administration lawyer Jeffrey Clark, and others to defraud the United States in violation of 18 U.S.C. § 371 by scheming to block the electoral count on January 6, 2021 and to subvert the Department of Justice’s election enforcement work."
"The timing of the superseding indictment indicates that the January 6th Committee is putting pressure on the DOJ to pick up the pace of its own efforts to prosecute those involved in the insurrection on January 6th. Good! "
Well, the existing "pace" of the DOJ can best be described as "Glatial".
No kidding. The DOJ is letting Fox News and Trump totally define the narratrive around Jan 06.
Maybe the DOJ is just giving them all the rope they need to hang themselves - rather than imposing constraints that could disrupt the path of evidence growing with this narrative - maybe this glacial pace is the best way to serve justice in the long run ...?
The DOJ pace is not glacial, it is right on schedule. We only have one chance to kill the king (and jail all the king's men). Garland knows best how to do it.
I am also watching Peter Doocey walk all over the new Press Secretary in the White House Press Briefings. The media has declared President Biden ineffective, January 6 Committee irrelevant and the House Republicans victorious in 2022 midterms.
And the DOJ is letting the evil doers do and say whatever they want.
The frst episode of Seditious Conspiracy 2020 through 2022 starts Thursday in primetime hosted by Rachel & Lawrence on MSNBC among others. Earlier tonite, Rachel demonstrated lawyer-like knowledge of the elements of the Fed seditious conspiracy statute. Lawrence O'Donnell is a former Staff Director of the U.S. Senate Finance Committee & writer and producer of the NBC series, The West Wing. Several Oath 'Violators' have agreed to testify for the Fed prosecution. Devastating footage of Pizzola will likely be shown along with decoded encrypted admissions. Not entertainment. June 7 Update: AP NEWS is now reporting that British filmmaker & Proud Boys documentarian, NICK QUESTED, will be a Select Commitee witness at the first January 9, Thursday, primetime Hearing along with his powerful footage of "Enrique" Tarrio & "Stewart" Rhodes infamous meeting in a underground garage in DC before the Jan 6 'overt acts.' Aside: Personally, I am very interested in how QUESTED uses his camera, documentary style,
It's being carried by every channel except Fox Snooze - ABC, CBS, NBC, CNN, MSNBC. and people thought it would only be on cable news as late as last week.
They also have an online watch based out of DC that they will have their own expert panel.
Aside from C-span, The 1/6 committee itself has a youtube channel that will “broadcast” live over the internet, and no doubt there will be youtube.com archives you can watch later if you can’t watch in real time:
We are three-plus days out before most all of us will be totally immersed in J6, not likely to be focused on anything else. So in that light and confident that we can walk and chew gum at the same time, I wanted to slide in this non-J6 piece of news regarding gun control.
"Rep. Don Beyer Proposes Filibuster-Proof 1,000% Tax on AR-15s.
"We think that a 1,000% fee on assault weapons is just the kind of restrictive measure that creates enough fiscal impact to qualify for reconciliation."
Morning Lynell. I understand and hold a very conservative and well informed opinion about guns based on history, knowledge and family experience. However, I abhor the regulation in this country regarding guns. Nothing about it represents safety or proper access.
Good place to post latest from Politics Girl, Leigh McGowan. She is at, shall I say, her most “pithy” in this quick 3min post.
How appropriate for D-Day, for landing on the beach. The war was not over then, but after months of planning, the full force was committed to the battle. I appreciate supporting the importance of these indictments with the symbolism of this date. Thank you for conveying this bit of hope and resolution.
It's also important to note that in the 11 months between D-Day and VE Day, the Allied forces suffered more casualties killed and wounded fighting across northwestern Europe than they had in the five previous years of war in Europe.
My friend the late Archie Maltbie was 2 weeks past his 22nd birthday when he flew his first combat mission as a pilot of a P-47 Thunderbolt on D-Day. 11 months later, two weeks short of his 23rd birthday, by then a Captain and the Operations Officer of his squadron, he was planning the next mission when the phone rang and the order was given to cease operations, that a ceasefire was on. "I turned and looked at the squadron assignment board. Of the 36 men I flew that mission with on D-Day, there were three of us still in the squadron. Ten had survived their tours and gone home. The rest were gone, most were dead. some were prisoners of war."
Indeed, and there is a big price for this one, from COVID deaths caused purely by resistance, through alienated friends and family and the death of vital legislation, to the clashes yet to come. Many thought Merrick Garland was not doing anything, and I hope they recognize his tenacity and also his bravery in not bowing to the clamor to do something prematurely. Will America, with its excessive love of speed and flamboyance, understand and support him? Same question applies to Biden's measured approach to world affairs that seems so plodding but stays the distance. Bravery and sacrifice come in many forms, from death to hopeful resistance and the sheer drudgery of building a solid case.
It would be great if things moved more rapidly, but I think what he needs is to get a conviction. I believe in the old saying, "It's not as important that the world move on your time schedule, as that it simply moves in your direction."
The price remains so high, TC. Why can’t we get it right? I’m keeping my kittens and unicorns on the shelf until we do. Thank you for your voice, TC. Another that has informed and prepared me for this time in our history. Much Light!
Yes, the Proud Boys seem to be the the DOJ punching bag around January 6th when, in fact, those guys are just as much a victim of Donald Trump as the poor woman who was shot trying to climb through an internal door window, or the poor Capitol police officer who died from bear spray in his face.
The Proud Boys actually "believed" what they were writing and saying. They were operating in good faith with information that led them to believe they were saving the United States, not attacking it. After all, their information was likely coming directly from Donald Trump, the actual President of the United States and on Jan 06 Donald Trump, on TV, asked them to attack the Capitol.
Are we finally going to have a day of reckoning for those who plotted insurrection against the United States? Are those upline — Trump, members of his administration, Republican members of Congress, and loudmouth operatives like Bannon finally going to have their wings clipped? If we let them skate it will be at our peril.
It sounds like, from the indictment, that the grand jury heard some names even if they are not mentioned in this indictment. So, I imagine that some people are worried. Then there is Peter Navarro being arrested....you know that "distinguished public servant". All this has to give pause to those yet not named. And the excellent ending about D-Day. I am quite glad to see the Proud Boys with these additional indictments as they are often around here in Oregon.
It's so intriguing: who was the person known to the grand jury who communicated repeatedly with the Proud Boys' leader, Tarrio, and gave him a document entitled "1776 Returns"? Who wrote the document? Who invited Tarrio to the White House?
One thing we can be sure of: some Republicans aren't sleeping well.
"One thing we can be sure of: some Republicans aren't sleeping well."
That makes me SO happy!
me too!! Happy Birthday to me!!!
Happy Birthday, Cynthia! Presents coming Thursday night, prime time!!!
Yes! I've been so excited! I couldn't have wished for anything more~!
Adding birthday wishes along with all the other good people here!
Thank you so much!!!
Happy birthday to you.
Thanks so much! : )
Happy Birthday!
Thanks!
Happy birthday!
Thank you so much! It is!!! : )
HAPPY HAPPY CYNTHIA!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7deg6ozWQQE&list=RD7deg6ozWQQE&start_radio=1&rv=7deg6ozWQQE
Happy Birthday, Cynthia🎂🎉
Many birthday blessings, Cynthia!
***HAPPY BIRTHDAY!!!*** 💃🏻
THANKS!!! : )
Happy happy New Year to you, Cynthia !
Roger Stone, Steve Bannon, Mark meadows, and or Steven Miller would fit the central casting as a useful idiot link of the unnamed person. What is also obvious is that wealthy donors flew less wealthy former guy radical true believers to DC, paid their hotel and bar tabs, and encouraged them to “get rowdy” at the Capital.
Ginni?
Oh, Pam, I know it's too much for anyone to ask, but I could die happy if Ginny and Clarence could be allowed to share a cell at a federal lockup.
Ahhh! YES!
please dear God, please dear God!!!
Yes. Absolutely. And rightly so.
Stone's a good guess. I'd add Michael Flynn and Giuliani.
"rump Jr. ?
Why, do you suppose, did Garland decide not to indict Meadows for refusing to appear? Is there a chance that he's waiting to charge him with something more serious and doesn't want to taint the DOJ's plans?
There is already so much material he gave them. Yesterday someone explained the uselessness of going too far with people like him because he'll stonewall and refuse to talk anyway. Yes, they probably already have plenty more info at the DOJ. Getting our hopes up? You bet!
Initially, I wondered why Meadows would give them so much information, then slam the door. Perhaps he was hoping that they'd consider his cooperation, and then go away. I understand the consideration of his stonewalling but trying not to get overly excited at the prospect of DOJ having bigger plans for him.
I’m thinking he’s worked a deal-to flip. At least I’m hoping so. Turn into TFG’s worst nightmare.
ooh. The very thought makes me so happy!
Are these "Boys" ever going to get it that they were used by super wealthy power grabbers keeping their own hands "clean"?
I'm not optimistic. A friend recently told me that her ultra-rightwing brother (not a militia member, to my knowledge) scolded her for being fully vaccinated against Covid, because he knew that the government injected a microchip so that she could be "tracked." My guess is that most of the "boys" have limited intellect.
Oh, that is so sad!. Bill Maher did a routine on how stupid America is - certainly there has to be some limitations if one believes in microchips in vaccines. At the same time. I just participated in a zoom event last night by Red Wine and Blue, suburban moms who have started a movement called the Great Troublemaker Turnout a "Massive relational voter turnout initiative," and they were mostly quite a bit younger than I (!) smart, lively, multi-cultural, inclusive and raring to go beyond where they have already gone. They gave me great hope! https://redwine.blue/the-great-troublemaker-turnout/
As all of his loyal supporters. He would never, ever invite them for dinner or play golf. Uses them for their contributions and his ego.
Morning Daria and Michael and forum. I want to know the identity of “this individual” who met BIGGS at the access point to the Capitol, put his arm around his shoulders and spoke to him. In other words, the person that let them in.
I am very, very glad of the timing of the DOJ that these indictments of seditious conspiracy have occurred at this moment, immediately prior to the “reveal” by the Jan 6th committee.
Also, my guess is Roger Stone as conduit to Proud Boys and Oathkeepers.
And finally, forum. My patriot blood rises at their audacity at claiming to be a militia and bearing a sole right to claiming “of, by, and for the people” as their battle cry. Last time I checked, the “well regulated” militia I have in mind, the National Guard, were held back for hours until they could get to the Capitol. How dare the former president tell “his” militia to “stand back and stand by” on national TV while on the stage with now our current President. That pauses my spirit every time I think of it and cry about their excuse and reason of “of, by, and for the people”. Seditious conspiracy indeed. How dare they.
UNITA!
You are so right that our constitutional militia is the National Guard, appointed by congress. Bless you and screw the gun industry and the deliberate misinterpretation by SCOTUS of the Second Amendment. How many children, grocery shoppers, religious congregants, and minority citizens would still be alive without that blasphemy?
I remember so vividly on that Jan 6th day of the frustration being reported that the National Guard was stand ready but had not been released yet. Hundreds of them. I remember vividly thinking….”oh no, who is holding back the militia? We are in trouble.”
And then I remember just recently of that same dreaded feeling when I heard of the nineteen officers standing there in that school hallway for so long, being held back by the chain of command. While chaos continued and little lives ended. Same thing, different date. I posted later in the forum, Hope, a link to Politics Girl, Leigh McGowan, who voices my outrage and replies….”We’re done.” https://youtu.be/yMwCixv1D6g
UNITA! 🗽
Here is a poem for this moment by the wonderful and wise, Amanda Gorman:
Hymn For The Hurting by Amanda Gorman
Everything hurts,
Our hearts shadowed and strange,
Minds made muddied and mute.
We carry tragedy, terrifying and true.
And yet none of it is new;
We knew it as home,
As horror,
As heritage.
Even our children
Cannot be children,
Cannot be.
Everything hurts.
It’s a hard time to be alive,
And even harder to stay that way.
We’re burdened to live out these days,
While at the same time, blessed to outlive them.
This alarm is how we know
We must be altered —
That we must differ or die,
That we must triumph or try.
Thus while hate cannot be terminated,
It can be transformed
Into a love that lets us live.
May we not just grieve, but give:
May we not just ache, but act;
May our signed right to bear arms
Never blind our sight from shared harm;
May we choose our children over chaos.
May another innocent never be lost.
Maybe everything hurts,
Our hearts shadowed & strange.
But only when everything hurts
May everything change.
Oh that was wonderful! Thank you for the reference. I wish I could be that articulate when I'm p.o.ed!
Yes, Politics Girl pretty much nails it consistently. We need more of her and Sen. McMorrow!
Ah, tomorrow is June 9th. I do believe we may have The Reckoning coming. Almost 7 years waiting for Justice. But so much has also been revealed about the trumplican mafia and how easily we can lose our democracy if Trust and Lies compete. Even so perversely blatant on trash talking propaganda machines. Fairness Doctrine is also immediately needed to be reinstated to clean up the seditious swamp talkers.
National Guard on Jan. 6; Uvalde cops. Gives "stand back and stand by" a new meaning.
Politics Girl - and Sen. McMorrow - YES!!!!!
I believe it’s someone who’d be unrecognizable…
Ok, lets get our bingo cards ready, this will be a way to have fun for a change, folks! Given the recent hyper reactions by Peter Navarro, he’s my “trump square” (?!) but it could have been Rudy, maybe, but he would have been in the “war room” in the hotel, near the WHite House (, with the candlestick…hmm, now it sounds like a game of Clue!).
I don't think it was Rudy, he has not shown the needed aplomb to write such a document as his friend the iDJiT can't put together two coherent sentences so we have to look a little further down the line not up the line.
Mark Meadows better be lawyering up right now. He’s my bet on the inside man. Rudy couldn’t construct 2 coherent sentences together, and Stone is just to brash and attention seeking. Meadows is Machiavellian, and perhaps more concerned ultimately with his own protection than that of TFG. A sweet plea deal for ratting out the traitor in chief? My fingers are crossed!
You're right about Stone. He's a street fighter not a tactician.
Miller and Bannon are also Machiavellian...and McConnell.
Ooh! Fun game! I’m positing Kash Patel for the WH insider, and Josh Hawley for the outside guy.
WOW!
Well, it’s all just speculation, but entertaining to consider.
My money's on Stone. Weren't the Proud Boys providing his "security"?
It probably was Stone but I’d so like to see Steven Miller go down in flames.
I would like to see the entire regime go down in flames! And including Mitch, the King of Obstruction.
And Oathkeepers at every event in Florida.
My guess as well Barbara.
My thoughts about Navarro, too. His ill temper and narcissism fit perfectly.
But would he put an arm around the shoulders of someone whose status he considered beneath him?
I want Trump. He's the center of it all. What he did was well within the boundaries of seditious conspiracy. That kind of sh_t has to be nipped in the bud, completely. I don't know who that mysterious individual is; perhaps he/she will be revealed in the public hearings. But it's Trump who I want - behind bars for the rest of his life. I will be a much happier man if that happens.
I think we all do. I have a hunch this morning that the unnamed is someone on the inside circle who is cooperating. That’s why they are left unknown?
I want him behind bars as well. The sad part is he will go to his grave never understanding what happened or how it happened. He's not a part of reality.
I think you are right. He's completely clueless, especially as long as he has his audiences to laugh at his "jokes" and applaud his rants. They belong to him and he to them.
You aren’t by yourself. Not by a long shot.
May the slippery eels be caught in a net of justice
I do hope the FBI is keeping tabs on the airports and certain unnamed persons!
TFG’s family jet with a one way flight plan to North Korea where he spends his life building a coastal golf course retirement village for deposed dictators.
They'll take their own jet. Or share a jet with others who want to get outta here.
😁
Fare thee well, former first family!
Roger stone was escorted by one of the outlaw groups
Oathkeepers.
They might be, but those pufferfish republicans appear so full of themselves and ignorant of reality, I am not so sure they are scared....yet! They think trumputin will care for them.
I'd also like to know the identity of the person embedded with the Proud Boys who videotaped them meeting with the Oath Keepers in a D.C. garage, plotting, on January 5th.
British documentary filmmaker Nick Quested, who is schedule to testify at the first hearing. https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/congress/documentarian-filmed-proud-boys-testify-first-jan-6-committee-hearing-rcna32238
More detail in NYT piece: https://www.nytimes.com/2022/06/06/us/politics/proud-boys-charged-sedition-capitol-attack.html
Michael, thanks for the links. I couldn't open the NYT link, but do you know whether the militia groups knew that Quested was a filmmaker, or did they think he was simply filming them for posterity? If they were documenting their activities for a scrapbook, they truly are delusional! Maybe they thought they'd be rewarded with cabinet appointments when TFG was returned to office.
He was definitely there with their approval:
From the NYT:
"When the committee on Thursday evening holds the first in a series of public hearings scheduled for this month, the two people said, it intends to present live testimony from Nick Quested, a British documentarian who was filming the group with its permission during the riot, and from Caroline Edwards, a Capitol Police officer who was injured, according to videotape of the incident, by a rioter who had been in a conversation moments earlier with one of the Proud Boys indicted on the sedition charge."
"Mr. Quested spent a good deal of the postelection period filming members of the Proud Boys, including Mr. Tarrio, and is considered by the committee likely to have been a witness to their conversations planning for Jan. 6. Mr. Quested had accompanied the Proud Boys to pro-Trump rallies in Washington in both November and December 2020, and was on the ground with members of the group on Jan. 6 when several played a crucial role in breaching the Capitol.
"Mr. Quested was also present with a camera crew on the day before the attack, when Mr. Tarrio met in an underground parking garage near the Capitol with a small group of pro-Trump activists, including Mr. Rhodes of the Oath Keepers. Late in the day on Jan. 6, Mr. Quested and his crew were with Mr. Tarrio in Baltimore, filming him as he responded in real time to news about the riot."
I hope they are sleepless and if they manage to fall asleep, are having nightmares.
Maybe this will be revealed at the hearings. I hope.
We're going to find out in the next week or so.
Michelle, AlI can say about the indictments is "hot damn, bring it on!"
The D Day ending is a good reminder that there can be victory against all odds.
I really like that Dr. Richardson added that ending with Eisenhower, Supreme Allied Commander for D day. What would Dwight say about how far the REP party has fallen from grace? I just can't believe that the NSA doesn't have a lot more communications, encrypted or not from those indicted to those in office or former advisors to TFG. This was a premediated sedition conspiracy.
Ted. I do not think that Professor Richardson can inform, prepare, and unite us more or better than how she has done for the coming weeks. A well informed voice of history has been crucial for the people, all of us, this time.
My deep appreciation to her and this forum.
Salud!
TK: “ I just can't believe that the NSA doesn't have a lot more communications”, recall, NSA intel is gathered on contacts outside US or outsiders reaching to/from US citizens, the FBI is domestic intel. Recall also that “total information awareness” and call metadata programs at NSA were shut down following leaks. OTOH we are still about to view just “Act 1” of the hearings. There were a lot of phone records subpoenaed in the last 18 months…
You don’t need secret data when TFG and his groups are declaring their intentions with a megaphone on FB, twitter and T.Carlson shows.
All in plain sight with no fear of repercussions
That was scary. No fear!
And if this was a dictatorship instead of a democracy, there wouldn't have been a First Amendment and they would have been scared to speak their minds. Yet, they don't appreciate the democracy under which they live.
Would the NSA share technology with the FBI for known domestic terror groups committing seditious conspiracy as counterinsurgency, post Charlottesville?
Post- 2001-09-11, one hopes things were supposed to move in the “information sharing” direction. But the buzz in the public mind was foreign threats, less so domestic.
Then Snowden shared NSA technology with the whole world. Then Facebook gathered more personal data —— largely “with user permission,” big fig leaf covering here —— on the world’s population than the NSA or FBI could ever dream of. From 2016-2020, one could assume the DOJ higher-ups did not hold domestic terror threat investigations in high priority - unless they were a threat to TFG.
And so we still are less than 2 years into the post-TFG administration, lots of resetting and catching up to do, but if your department heads aren’t confirmed in the Senate it’s hard to enact any new policies.
Looking forward to the show starting this week.
I wonder what Eisenhower would say about how far those Republicans have succeeded in threatening the inner chambers of the American. government.
I wish modern Kansas politicians had the outlook of Ike of Abilene, Kansas. But Republicans of the WWII generation were polar opposite of the todays Kansas Republican majority, who have fallen into a gutter of John Birch-ism, religious theocracy, and Koch-ist Ayn Rand-ism.
Speaking of Ayn Rand-ism, wasn’t it she who said “The question isn’t who is going to let me, it’s who is going to stop me.”
The current republican mantra, as if they can’t be stopped. Texas sounds like another Kansas, drowning in propaganda spewed by Murdoch and Koch’s. Charles Koch reportedly hates chump, but what a useful idiot he has turned out to be… Attracting other useful idiots like flies to carrion…
Kansas is Koch central.
ugh
He would have words for them like he did for the Nazis of his day. The last great Republican president of the United States, the only one truly worthy of the office in my lifetime.
I liked Ike in my youth. Still do
Through HCR's history lessons I learned that they were at it then. He wanted to continue with FDR's policies, and they were determined to fear Americans with ¨socialism¨and ¨communisim¨. Even after the Civil War that were at it.
Ike twisting in his grave
Today, I can't believe that the NSA doesn't have a lot more material either.if they truly don't then what is the point of the agency? For goodness sake!!
One would think that if Snowden knew it was possible and is still in exile, maybe they do have tapes and screen shots of those encrypted apps between Manafort and Konstantin Kilimnick..."the sensitive polling data"? But would that also mean the NSA had the evidence from 2016, things we needed during Manafort's trial, but things the NSA didn't need to release because they got Gates to flip? But if they didn't have that capability or evidence in 2016, would the lesson be to make it so for post 2016? To protect against Jan 6th?
Now I understand why I could not sleep well last night and why the likes and comments went late by so many. We face now as great a challenge as General Eisenhower faced in WW2. While Our challenge is an Information Age cyber war against Democracy, it will be equally difficult and will require the same effort. Losing battles in cyber means we would, like Ukraine, face real unrest and real war.
For what President Eisenhower would say, listen to Liz Cheney.
If so, the only way such evidence would come to light would be a major leak; the deep state protects evidence of its reach into the light at all costs.
It does seem that this indictment lays the groundwork for getting to the Oval Office. I wonder when the DOJ decided to pick this date to announce it.
Jim, 1st sentence-one can only hope. 2nd sentence-good question.
While it does seem appropriate (to announce it on the anniversary of D-Day), the DOJ strives mightily to be apolitical. Of that I am sure. And this is merely one in a long string of indictments, many yet to come. The summer will be a hot one, and not just because of global warming.
Decided? All along is my opinion. That is how real detective work progresses. A method to the madness, so to speak. Always strategy involved.
Salud, Jim.
But it also reminds us that it takes courage, commitment and risk to win over fascism. Some things are worth sacrificing for.
Sadly these traitors are either tragically misguided or deeply evil.
I think all these foot soldiers like the Proud Boys and the Oath keepers were useful idiots, manipulated and brainwashed by Trump starting before the 2016 election, when Trump began repeating his lie that the only way Democrats could win was by cheating. He set the whole thing up. He probably had help from Bannon, who unlike Trump is smart enough to mastermind a national brainwashing campaign of susceptible supporters, and had previously expressed contempt for democracy. The private communications of Tarrio et al show they passionately believed all parts of the Big Lie. Bannon, through mouthpiece Trump, skillfully manipulated all of the conspiracy foot soldiers’ cultural grievances and feelings of diminishing power and place as the culture shifts so that straight, white men are no longer automatically advantaged over everyone else. Bannon through Trump manipulated their need to once again see themselves as brave heroes and the protectors of a glorious cause. These foot soldiers were ripe to be brainwashed by the Big Lie. I’ll be watching the hearings starting Thursday evening with great interest to see how much hard evidence the Jan6 Committee has been able to gather proving the seditious conspiracy was knowingly run straight from the top, with full intent to overthrow a lawful election. It will also be very interesting to see which members of Congress they can prove knew the Big Lie was false and knowingly colluded, and which like the Proud Boys and Oath Keepers were useful idiots who sincerely bought the brainwashing.
It will also be interesting to see if they do present all their evidence about the relative knowledge and intent of the various conspirator members of Congress. If the hearings end, and no evidence about MoCs’ participation is presented, that will be a clue to the Committe’s complex political calculus. After all, if they fully reveal all the evidence on MoCs, the next logical step would be to charge those who knew the Big Lie was false and conspired anyway, with seditious conspiracy. What happens to Congress then? This should be quite a ride.
Roger Stone is written all over this. He and his cadre of evil used the ‘stop the steal’ term prior to 2016. I believe it was during Bush/Gore when he used the phrase.
Thanks for this point, Eileen. I have not been following Roger Stone closely enough. I looked it up and of course, sources I should have seen a long time ago prove your point, for example:
CNN: Stop the Steal's massive disinformation campaign connected to Roger Stone
11-14-2020
https://www.cnn.com/2020/11/13/business/stop-the-steal-disinformation-campaign-invs/index.html
"...while Stop the Steal may sound like a new 2020 political slogan to many, it did not emerge organically over widespread concerns about voting fraud in President Donald Trump's race against Joe Biden. It has been in the works for years.
Its origin traces to Roger Stone, a veteran Republican operative and self-described "dirty trickster" whose 40-month prison sentence for seven felonies was cut short by Trump's commutation in July.
Stone's political action committee launched a "Stop the Steal" website in 2016 to fundraise ahead of that election, asking for $10,000 donations by saying, "If this election is close, THEY WILL STEAL IT."
He first trotted out the slogan during the 2016 primaries -- claiming a "Bush-Cruz-Kasich-Romney-Ryan-McConnell faction" was attempting to steal the Republican nomination from Donald Trump -- before re-upping Stop the Steal for the general election.
"Donald Trump thinks Hillary Clinton and the Democrats are going to steal the next election," his website said that October.
Stop the Steal briefly resurfaced around the midterms in 2018 -- with Republicans employing the hashtag during a recount in a neck-and-neck Florida race for U.S. Senate -- but it wasn't until 2020 that it really caught fire.
A Stop the Steal Facebook group was managed by a loose coalition of right wing operatives, some of whom have worked with former Trump adviser Steve Bannon. The group amassed hundreds of thousands of followers in little more than a day before Facebook shut it down on November 5 -- the day after it was launched.
Also on November 5, Bannon started his own "Stop the Steal" Facebook group; he changed the name to "Own Your Vote" the following day. It was not removed by Facebook, but the social media company did later remove several other pages affiliated with Bannon.
..."
Elizabeth, there's not a legislator in D.C. or anywhere else who believes the Big Lie. They're simply manipulating the useful idiots further down the food chain to take the heat in the chaos they've created. In my opinion, 90% of the Republicans currently holding office in D.C. should be convicted of sedition. I find it laughable that they claim that the Democrats have to cheat in order to win, since they outnumber the Republicans by 42 million.
Nancy, if you read my comment, you'll see that nowhere do I say that any legislators believe the big lie. By "foot soldiers" I'm referring to the Oath Keepers/ Proud Boys/ many others in the mob who attacked the capital. I hope the Jan6 committee has been able to gather lots of hard evidence that actually proves what is already informally obvious: that a number of legislators who were interacting with the Jan6 planners knew there was a conspiracy to overturn the election, facilitated it, and participated in it. The trick in a conspiracy trial, as I understand it, is finding a paper trail that proves they knew the Jan6 rally on the oval was always intending to attack the Capitol, knew the Oath Keepers and Proud Boys to whom some members gave extensive tours of the Capitol building in the days before Jan6 were not "just tourists" but were in fact casing the joint, knew the goal was to overturn the lawful election. I am obviously not an attorney, but my understanding is that the uphill battle at least with many of these seditious members of Congress will be proving they knew all about the conspiracy and were knowingly participating in it. Us believing it because it's obvious, and lawyers proving it in court, are two different things.
EM - I would not let the Proud Boys or Oath Keepers off the hook by simply being useful idiots. Those kind of people are sporting for a fight of some kind, and they delighted in all this. Not a patriotic bone in their bodies, at least not the patriotism the word is supposed to mean.
I totally agree! I never said they should be let off the hook. Quite the opposite. They should bear the full brunt of the law for their sedition. Let them figure out at their leisure in prison that they'd been had. But the conspiracy goes straight to the top.
"I think all these foot soldiers like the Proud Boys and the Oath keepers were useful idiots, manipulated and brainwashed by Trump starting before the 2016 election, when Trump began repeating his lie that the only way Democrats could win was by cheating. He set the whole thing up. "
Michael Cohen in his book, Disloyal, said that chump's MO was to put an idea into a media and let the masses run with it. This most certainly was chump's intent.
Yes. And we shouldn't underestimate the role of pastors and priests in the manipulating and brainwashing of many of the seditionists, for their own evil (sorry) purposes.
Fastening my seat belt!!
I rather think the latter of your last sentence, is what they are.
... more likely, for many, misguided - wannabe heroes, prone to bite the baited hook of evil influence perpetrated by major league players who themselves are captive to illusions of grandeur ... truth and love prevail!!
Tragically stupid, maybe?
I think that there is indeed an evil; a racially based hatred of everyone not a white male cisgendered heterosexual Christian (of the evangelical variety; insert the obligatory "not all" here if you're one of the real Christians).
Deeply evil and have been for more than half a century. Now on the cusp of victory, may they fall to our own D-day. The spirit of Ike rules…
Hard to know for certain since so much of this whole sad affair …beginning with the election in 2016…is about not so bright charlatans taking advantage of others like themselves. The JD is taking their shot: there will more be indictments, trials and convictions of the insurrectionists. Has to happen for so many reasons…
It's also a good reminder that this is a large and a serious conflict and not some local scuffle.
Yet it reaches all the way down to the local. It’s like realizing we have stage four cancer.
Great analogy. That irritating "symptom" has metastasized into a Stage Four cancer of democracy.
We don't usually watch too much political TV, but will be tuned in Thursday evening. Prime time too!
We don't watch much political TV either but we'll be tuned in Thursday too!
Same here. May Truth appear.
Yeah, when the Creswell Chamber of Commerce folded at the start of the pandemic, one of their "traditional" duties was spearheading the annual Fourth of July festivities. 2020 was a "drive by parade" as people decorated their houses and other folks drove by to look; kinda like Christmas lights displays. In 2021, with no organization to sponsor the parade, the PB stepped in and really messed things up. Their parade turned into what you might imagine with the PB and the anti Biden, anti gun regulation crowd. A private business tried to host the fireworks display by "utilizing" a vacant lot (old lumber mill that had burned 15 years ago) without permission and starting a fire with the first batch that was ignited. I had friends who had driven down for the fireworks that felt so unsafe (from both a practical and a political standpoint) that they left.
OMG
I remember that. Since we are the state capital, they are here far too frequently.
:’-(
Navarro publicly blew off his grand jury subpoena. He as good as asked to be arrested. Most of them aren’t that dumb.
Arrogant but in no way dumb.
Every time he showed up on Ari Melber's "The Beat" I laughed. Ari played him like a fiddle. And he kept coming back for more. I wonder if he sold a single copy of his book with that public display of stupid hubris.
He is arrogant and dumb.
They're letting the suspense build. Peter Navarro is a complete buffoon - wrote a book, appeared on Ari Melber's "The Beat", spilling his guts, and now claims Executive Privilege?
One of the best moments in broadcast journalism this year: when Ari tells Navarro, who basically has been incriminating himself on live TV in an interview, says, "You know the Jan. 6th committee can hear everything you're telling me." (Maybe not the exact quote, but this was the gist.)
And remember the time Ari interrupted him with something like, "Sir, you do realize you are describing a coup?" I think that was the one where he was bragging about his "Green Bay Sweep."
That's the one. And to further cement our belief that he's an idiot, he has said that he'd act as his own attorney.
Classic. People like Navarro are so incredibly self-absorbed and so love to hear themselves talk that they don't grasp what they're actually communicating. Or maybe these interviews were his attempt to normalize blatant illegality.
Don't think it worked.
I couldn't stop laughing at that, and Navarro's obliviousness to Ari's observation, almost breathless in his eagerness to continue his blathering.
Crazy how similar Putin's invasion/genocide and the tfg's Jan 6th seditious conspiracy need confronting. I think we do need to escalate both in order to resolve them. We need to put both bullies' in their place. We need to confront both before its too late. These types will not stop, until we force them to stop. tfg and radical republican party with the law, and Putin by force. Both only get stronger till they get taken down for good.
I remember Helsinki, Putin couldn’t wait for 2024 but he should have.
100 percent. We need to escalate simply because they won't stop until they have been made to stop.
“If we let them skate it will be at our peril.” That, Daria, is my fear — that tfg and his nearest and dearest will never receive their just deserts.
So, at one with Ike, I say:
“‘[The DOJ’s] task will not be an easy one. [Their] enemy is well trained, well equipped and battle-hardened. He will fight savagely. But this is the year [2022]!... The tide has turned! The free [people] of the world are marching together to Victory!’”
Oh Rowshan! If only…………. But the truth is that they will never be defeated. They are shape shifters and will morph and evolve and will always be with us. They Are Us. They are like destructive habits. Addictions. How do you treat addiction? The “hate-drug” pipeline is making too many people incredibly rich. I wish, I hope the big fish are brought to justice over the Jan 6th Insurrection. But what are the Vegas-Odds of that, really?
Spirit of Ike lives
Well done!
Yes Rowshan. I believe that.
May their "just deserts" be Death Valley and the Mojave, not pie a la mode.
Oh, no, please! Those are too close to my home! I'm good with them being sent to Mars though. . ;-)
Down a black hole.
It gives me pause to wonder what is the current state of the Proud Boys and the Oath Keepers... Are they shaking in their collective army boots? Are they conspiring new and dastardly plots? Have they joined forces? Are they now the Proud Oaths? Or the Boy Keepers (I kinda like that one...)?
What does one do when everything they once believed becomes toxic to their own freedom? Are the fringe elements trying to quietly slip away into obscurity? Methinks they have been fully infiltrated and will be watched carefully for the rest of their lives.
I think ur right. FBI has layers of under covers and CI’s that don’t know each other in these domestic terror organizations. Once the ringleaders are locked up, I see no reason not to designate them terrorist organizations.
Yes, but remember who is head of the FBI, Christopher Wray. He is a member of the Federalist Society. I wish Biden would replace him.
Erghhh. Yup.
I don’t think Democrats should ever vote to appoint another Federalist Society member to any bench or any cabinet level position. Ever.
DEMOCRACY cannot ever vote to appoint another Federalist Society member to even dog catcher (my apologies to our important animal control folks).
“Boy Keepers” - eternally immature
I need a Peter Pan emoji.
I recall (I think, I’m old) that the FBI stopped trying to infiltrate white supremacist groups during Obama admin. Couldn’t believe it since I saw first hand the reaction to Obama’s win in rural Texas. They have been toxic forever, growing more so with chump.
Read Belew’s “They brought the war Home”
Ha! The Boy Keepers,
I don't think the fringe elements are quite yet ready to slip away. I hope they've been fully infiltrated...if so we may be able to finally get the goods on Big Daddy.
A lot of “scuttling” going on. Like rats on a sinking ship.
I like Boy Keepers too.
How about Perverted Oath Boy Keepers? That seems to sum it up!
Back in the late 70s, I recall straight guys I knew at college refer to gay men as "boys" using a fey voice. I always think about this when I hear "Proud Boys" as while I am entirely sure some are gay, I tend to think that runs against their doctrine.
With all these humorous versions of Oath Keepers/Proud Boys (Boy Keepers is a good one), I keep wishing that, during his so-called presidency, Trump's tweets had been labeled "quacks" and that he would have been given the nickname "Donald Duck", since he was so fond of giving nicknames to other people (Crooked Hillary for example). Maybe a copyright violation or something.
Well armed militias...
Daria,
So far, there is no evidence that we will have a "day of reckoning" for those that incicited the Proud Boys to violence and led the Proud Boys to believe the election had been stolen.
The Proud Boys seem to be the the DOJ punching bag around January 6th when, in fact, those guys are just as much a victim of Donald Trump as the poor woman who was shot trying to climb through an internal door window, or the poor Capitol police officer who died from bear spray in his face.
The Proud Boys actually "believed" what they were writing and saying. They were operating in good faith with information that led them to believe they were saving the United States, not attacking it. After all, their information was likely coming directly from Donald Trump, the actual President of the United States and on Jan 06 Donald Trump, on TV, asked them to attack the Capitol.
But, the people providing that (false) information to the Proud Boys? What has happened to them? The REAL seditionists.
Those folks continue to live the high life at Mara Lago, and other posh American locations, every day, all day.
The foot soldiers of the sedition caucus are the low-hanging fruit. Their successful prosecution (if there is one) CANNOT be seen as the be all and end all of the investigation. As you say, the people who created this mess are the real seditionists, and they were and are residing at the top levels of government with the intent of destroying our democracy. This investigation is like an onion; many layers. We cannot stop at the first layer.
The DOJ is on it, doing it the right way, which takes time. We only have one chance to kill the king.
I agree with you mostly. But, these racists have always been looking for a reason to start a war and Trump knows that.
Exactly Ga Girl. These are dangerous bad people just itching for a fight. The idea that the Trump cabal employed them just makes me sick.
Mike, and with a Supreme Court Justice. BUT, I don't in the least consider the PBs or Oath Keepers or members of any other pseudo-militia group victims because each individual, in concert with others, organized, bought weapons, and "trained" far in advance of the election and aftermath that culminated on the attack on Congress. Were they the masterminds? Surely not. There are, as you say, powerful, wealthy people who are the puppetmasters. And there is Fox News with the constant stream of poison supporting insurrection and lies. The fact that the upline leadership of the insurrection, including Trump, hasn't been brought down (yet) in no way makes these thugs victims. Stupid and gullible? Yes. Victims, no.
Mike, I can't agree that the Proud Boys are victims. Calling for war makes them aggressors regardless of who their general is. It's the general....in this case, tRump, who needs to be included in the charge of sedition and add treason!
So agree, Pam.
Perhaps victims is not appropriate. But. Their President did call on them.
And they enjoy the freedoms of adult members of our society. If they are too immature to make decisions for themselves, perhaps those choices need to be taken away from them. As they were taken away from “ the poor woman who was shot trying to climb through an internal door window”. She chose to put herself in that situation and suffered the consequences of her actions.
They were "standing by" knowing they would be called forward by someone or someones.
So why are you calling them that, Mike?
The white supremacist evil existed long before chump, as we all know. Chump shined his benevolence on them and they flourished. They always had their power in Congress. LBJ knew them well. None ever suffered for it to my knowledge, but the boldness of the foot soldiers (hate on the ground) now may change that. Of course, the money will keep rolling (hate in the upper echelons).
And, in the Congress.
Correct. Republican Members of Congress, are, apparently, still enjoying their nightly adventures in sexual deviancy based on Madison Cawthorn's statements.
And this is precisely why Cawthorne is no more.
Amen, Barbara.
I just threw up in my mouth......
The visual of that is not pretty.
And, in the Supreme Court.
Interesting. If, with the abundance of evidence regarding the Proud Boys sedition, they can't be convicted, how then can we expect the creator of lies and trasher of the nation might be found guilty in our courts under our laws? Like the Brown Shirts of 78 years ago, neither their followership nor ignorance makes them victims in this drama that is our present-day fight for our nation.
Bingo.
B-I-N-G-O.
Mike, they are not to be excused! People are responsible for their own acts. That defense and exculpation would be like “I was only following orders” so I am not responsible.
We are, or our democracy will surely perish and evil will prevail. We cannot. We just cannot allow that to happen. There will be, in any event, a great upheaval in our country. One we cannot avoid. One we will endure.
Daria, I write both to amplify your justified concerns and also to amplify the prevailing view that the outcome of the Select Committee hearings this month largely will rest with DOJ. Though I’m not an attorney, my diligent analysis of the facts released/leaked to the public has led me to conclude that there is sufficient factual predication both to indict and convict a number of high-level officials up to and including Trump. Simply put, unless DOJ starts holding Trump and his coterie accountable, I expect the anticipated Republican counter-programming largely will derail the Select Committee’s narrative, regardless of how reasoned and compelling.
Yes. Draw a line from the Committees investigation to the only department of government who can do anything with the revelations. If DOJ doesn't act, it's all just theater.
But there is another impact of the January 6th Committee. It may guide voters this fall to reject Republicans who tout the "Big Lie". And there are many. Will such evidence make enough of a difference? It won't change MAGA minds - those brains are too far gone with rot. But there are a lot of Independents and Democrats who typically don't turn out for mid-term elections. Will this rile them up to defend democracy?
I read that the Committee has hired a former ABC exec with a reputation for putting together powerful video presentations. Perhaps the show will get lots of eyes and make a difference?
Bill, Quoting a fellow subscriber’s recent reply to one of my comments, “From your keyboard to God’s eyes.”
Get out the vote. More than money, the vote is the voice of the people. The only reason we have this panel and this DOJ is that more of us voted for Biden and Democratic representation than against them. This civil war will be fought and won with ballots, not bullets.
My fear is that these public hearings, however important and well-produced, will be preaching to the choir. From what I understand Fox News will have alternate programming.
Who cares? Their network will be in the minority. Which they do not like. Enjoy being your own definition of minority, Faux News. “second class”.
I doubt whether the audience will include those who have believed the big lie up to this point or create enough cognitive dissonance to put a dent into the hardened beliefs they are operating under. November is not that far away and I can imagine those believers and beginning doubters to come out and vote in order to validate what they want to believe.
I’m not so sure. This programming will be too much for them to resist thinking they can easily negate it. Too many of their heroes involved for them not to watch.
I too hope that. After watching the Senate trials and the Hillary investigations, etc, I was surprised by how many folks who said " Oh, I missed that" or "I don't watch stuff like that, all theater, no substance" or something else to that effect. Yet, they had an opinion based on the "facts."
Alternate programming to support their “alternate facts”
My thought is that Merrick Garland is holding his fire until the Jan6 public hearings because for his charges to stick, he needs as much public awareness of the factual evidence and as much nationwide outrage and as many million demands for justice as possible.
Agree. The Court of Public Opinion has nearly 33 million votes. I fully trust and have faith in A.G. Garland.
I hope so!
Elizabeth, Thank you for your positive outlook.Indeed, I’m aware that such notables as Attorney and former US Prosecutor Glenn Kirschner and The Washington Post Opinion Writer Jennifer Rubin hold the same view. Still, my sense is that whether DOJ is investigating, or will be investigating, potential crimes by Trump or his inner circle remains an elusive and consequential question.
Barbara, that is indeed the question. Is the DOJ poised to take action in concert with the damning revelations of the Jan6 Committee hearings, and indict the senior Jan6 coup plotters, including Dumpster? Or will they let the moment pass, ie. fail to confront this treason, and thus become the Department of Oh Well Never Mind?
Excellent analysis.
Thank you, Mike, for your kind words.
Barbara, that’s my fear, too. Just like impeachments one and two. There was evidence aplenty, and it just didn’t matter.
But the hearings don't have to persuade a intransigent Republican Senate. I hope there are lots of theatrics to impress independents.
Kathleen, While a part of me relates to your hope for “theatrics,” another part feels uneasy about people for whom what happened on January 6th needs further attention-getting.
KR, Hence, the hope, as some believe, that DOJ is accelerating its inquiries into Trump and his inner circle.
Barbara, we are in synch, once again. In fact, my biggest concern is that the anticipated Republican counter-programming will turn the hearings into another made for TV, 3 ringed circus with support from Carlson, et al., at Fox. I'm cringing already.
Yes, action needs to happen before the midterms or it won't get the chance to progress. And if it is all handled well, the voters will vote differently and any remaining issues will get more time for that action and completion. It's occurred to me that unless the Fox-types of counter-information are really busy Thursday night, regular Fox watchers will quickly see that absolutely every other media site is covering the hearings. It is going to be interesting, for sure.
Deborah, My hope is that the broad swath of the country who are not 2020 election deniers tune in and then join us in the fight to build a truly pluralistic democracy.
EXACTLY. This is what I've been saying all along. It's great to go after the "small fry" (and yes, Tarrio and his ilk ARE small fry), but I am no longer even interested in these arrests and charges. I'll get excited when I see indictments (for sedition) for Trump. Bannon. Boebert. MTG. Gosar. Hawley. Cruz. Eastman. Mastriano. Powell. Giuliani. Etc., etc.
Until then, this is all nothing but political theatre.
I hope it is more peeling of an onion than it is political theater. These indictments do not reveal anyone higher up the chain than the equivalent of a buck sergeant in a military command. This sedition goes all the way to the top. All. The. Way.
Yes! But I also think it’s necessary political theater. I pray to god this is the beginning of accountability, not the end.
No this is not political theater, it is trial in the court of public opinion, essential to preventing alignment with "the small fry" as well as the big guys. We only have one chance to kill the king.
I respectfully disagree, MaryPat. Half the country (the half that obsessively watches Fox News/OANN/Newsmax) isn't even going to hear about this.
My concern is that it will also be at our peril if the DOJ indicts Trump or members of his minions. The Founders were concerned that a standing military could be used to oppress the population, thus the inclusion of the phrase a "militia being necessary to the security of a free State." Ardent 2nd Amendment loyalists see gun ownership as a guarantee against tyranny. The GOP has been so successful at demonizing the Democratic Party that they are being painted as tyrants that require, if needed, violent removal from power. You can hear it in the rhetoric of Tarrio and others: it is 1776 again, they are the liberators throwing off the shackles of oppression, it is time for war. I fear that if Trump is in fact indicted, we will see uprisings throughout the nation that will make January 6 look like an ice cream social. It is not a reason to back down, but I fear we need to be prepared for the worst.
Frank, I agree with you 100%.There is no easy way out if this mess and I sincerely believe it will come to wide-spread violence before it's over.
It’s happening now. Their cauldron has been boiling for awhile.
I agree and fear the consequences no matter what happens at this point.
I agree 100%, too. A well armed militia, in every Michigan county. How about your state?
Well said Daria. Have we finally reached the boiling point? The teapot seemed to have taken a long time to boil. The DOJ cannot be content to let that pot simmer. This is our Democracy on the line.
Linda, yes! The insurrection, actions leading up to it and the aftermath, the fact that arrest of all attackers were not made on that day is a big part of the problem. Of course, arrests couldn't be made on the 6th what with most of the law enforcement fighting the mob. Still, we have to be able to get to the top of the pyramid to have true closure. Will we ever see that happen.
Yes. Watch and feel secure in our leaders again. Atty General Garland will not let this slip. His path has been masterful.
UNITA fab Linda and Daria! Happy hour Has a different meaning f for me this week. Join me?
Christine, I will have my glass ready 🍷
Daria, what truly concerns me was an NBC poll stating that there are less people today convinced that Trump was part of the Insurrection than following the act. I don't know the figures, I was flipping through radio stations as I was driving. Although, I believe it was a double digit drop.
Will the upcoming televised hearings be a come to Jesus moment for them or will they pass it off? I believe the disinterest comes from the gap in time from the Committee to bring forth evidence.
I certainly hope that day is coming soon.
Exactly.
Morning fab Daria. Looks like our skates are better sharpened and much more honed than theirs.
Unita!
Unita!
Daria, I wish. But I am not hopeful. Indeed, I'm pretty much out of hope altogether.
They ALL must be held accountable for all of their actions. If not....
AMEN!
"Clipping their wings" may not be enough. I've become fearful that there will not be meaningful dialogue from the MSM as well as republican leaders even given overwhelming evidence.
Truly, your fears are wholly legitimate.
Fox "News" announced today it won't air the hearings, one of the most momentous events in the country's history. It's not surprising but points out the power of an organization devoted to deluding its audience with propaganda. Fox News viewers need to hear the truth and come to grips with the fact they have supported an attempt to overthrow the federal government based on arguably the most devious, destructive lie ever told in the U.S. Instead, Hannity and Carlson will continue the lie and, as well, lie about the J6 committee's work during Thursday's kickoff hearing.
One would hope some Fox viewers might ask themselves why can't they see the hearings and get a clue. Meanwhile, the rest of the country is about to be astounded by the committee's findings. The professor has set the stage perfectly for the drama that's about to unfold.
I was thinking last night after Robert Reich spoke about how much of our stock market is owned by foreign sovereign wealth funds...40%. That 40% represents a good amount of leverage. And now hostile foreign governments can manipulate the stock market to crash when enemies disagree with our President's policies, like sending aid to Ukraine, or Climate Change, or Human Rights. And this manipulation can be timed in the run up to an election. So when we quote, "Its the economy stupid", that has a lot more meaning now, than when President Clinton first said it. And then I thought, you know, how much of FOX is owned by foreign sovereign wealth funds? Could the same true for Rupert Murdoch? Could a media titan be leveraged to work in concert with foreign governments to degrade one party of the other for his profit and the detriment of Democracy in this country? For this I have no proof, but it seems like something now so obvious that it would worth a deep dive by journalist looking to win more than a Pulitzer.
At this point, nothing would surprise me. We know that Fox's top propagandists parrot messaging coming from Russia and Hungary. There's no telling what the level of coordination or inducement actually is. As for leveraging the market, that would be extremely difficult to prove. Then again, some things out in the open, such as the Saudis limiting oil production to further jack up gas prices and hurt Biden.
Saudis just announced today they are increasing production. Your news is "old." Probably has something to do with Biden announcing he would go visit He Who Shall Not Be Named who he said he wouldn't see.
All the more reason to accelerate Electric vehicles. But even that can trigger the Saudi's to start manipulating the supply of oil sending us into a recession. Same way Russia messes with Ukraine and Europe with oil and gas prices, the Saudi's do to us. They can force a recession in the run up to an election and we are vulnerable. And Republican's won't say anything about it, as long as serves their purpose to power.
It is not just our economy that is dependent on oil, Republican power is rooted in the oil industry. Our democracy is at threat from oil. How much of US oil stocks and bonds are owned by hostile foreign sovereign wealth funds? They are shareholders with leverage over both the corporate leadership of our oil companies and refineries, and through political donations they have levers in DC that they can push. When you want to sway an election, just spike the price of oil, cause a recession and ....whhhhaaala, "regime change in 'merica". This is how the Saudi's meddle.
Credit to Biden for doing something so distasteful to help Americans get some relief at the pump.
Agree. Another rock and hard place for President Biden. People are outraged over gas prices but are purists in where we need to do our oil business.
Indeed!
Where that visit stands at this time.
https://www.cnbc.com/2022/06/04/white-house-postpones-biden-trips-to-saudi-arabia-and-israel.html#:~:text=White%20House%20postpones%20Biden%20trips%20to%20Saudi%20Arabia%20and%20Israel
I wonder why the trips were postponed?
Excellent question. Maybe for the simple reason he finds the Saudis to be odious.
Hmm. New arms talks?
To me it shows Biden is willing to compromise in order to get gasoline cost down for the consumer.
Yep, since the idiot public thinks that he raised the prices, duh
Rupert Murdoch and Fox News are Russia's voice in America.
Which, apparently, is not "sedition". Or "treason". Or unpatriotic.
It's just business.
It is all that and more. Has always been Goebbels in America….
Exactly, we need to be able to deal with seditious infowars in our own country. This is not freedom of speech, this is inciting sedition and brainwashing. How do we shut these machines down?
What you're describing doesn't require some deep conspiracy, just enough money flowing through well established, but not-so-very visible channels. That kind of media can be trained like an animal; enough tasty treats and the desired behavior becomes habitual.
Exactly. It’s more than just riling up the base when riling up the base is exacerbated by Russian trolls and given false likes by trolls an bots for false amplification. What is thought to be popular is false, and the QOP doesn’t believe what is really going on. “He who is manipulated is turned into a thing.”- Victor Klemperer
Rupert has been working against Democrats since Ronnie, and the government since it fell into Dem hands in the 90’s. He has been a master manipulator since 1980, by Republican design. God knows what else he does. He wreaks havoc on an international scale.
Ted, I wish you wouldn't think so much. I think you are right.
As HCR has pointed out "Fox News" is not about news, but Fox News Corporation is about entertainment. That's why they can't be sued for spreading false news. You are right, we have the better news channel here, and it is about to be a bit entertaining.
In my view, Faux Snooze could be charged with false advertising - I fail to find anything entertaining about their content.
Agree, I guess it is calculated to be entertainment for losers; in order to vote for someone who refuses to lose even when he does.
Indeed -there is something weirdly funny about that ... ironic, if not PERVERSE!!
Perverse
It was just a gimmick to avoid truth-telling. Has been from day one. Ailes loved that they got the fairness doctrine ditched and had Frank Luntz to make Schitt smell like roses. Newt and Grover helped but their Schitt never had Frank’s “Buckley” style.
I hear you Jeri - what boggles the mind is the fact that so many people buy the lie - I trust they will feel the earth move when those lies go slip-sliding away - and they will, in due time ....
Jeri. Will anyone stop believing that Jesus is coming back because he makes no appearance tomorrow?
Seems to me Murdoch could be sued into submission if enough money were thrown at the project. Oh wait, I think I hear lawyers knocking at my door already. Sorry, I don't have that kind of money. Head over to Hollywood or Silicon Valley.
😀 ... actually Bill, I don't know the hard facts - my sense is that Mr. Murdoch and his ilk already are flat on their backs, feet in the air - submissive to powers beyond their control - human laundromats for unidentified economic interests ....
Don't forget Hannity is implicated in J6, so he's probably distancing himself from reporting on the investigation to preserve his objective journalistic integrity.
Jim, "Hannity.....is......"distancing himself from reporting on the investigation to preserve his objective journalistic integrity"
BEST JOKE OF THE DAY!!
Hannity and "objective journalist integrity" in the same sentence.
Well done!
😂🤣😩🤣😂
... "to preserve his objective journalistic integrity." ...? Kidding?
🤣🤣🤣
Snort.
We need 2 sets set of quotes around the words "objective" and "integrity" as sarcasm.
I wonder if he also a conduit or cut out, communicating with the WH to the Proud Boys or other groups. I think that could also be Roger Stone.
Dems should keep a tail on Stone. He is busy evil.
Roger Stone came to mind for me, too.
“Journalistic integrity” that you couldn’t find with a microscope. Rupert thinks that his ownership of the WSJ is cover enough for Fox. Hope somebody proves him wrong before we all die of his lies.
😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣
His WHAT?!
All the easier for those Fox talking heads to filter the Committee’s revelations to their watchers. “Who you going to believe? Me, or your own lying eyes?”
Your last sentence tells the Fox tale, from the inception
It will help if we flood fox propaganda channel posed a version of Michael Bales' great question that I am about to dribble on them:
" Fox Viewers: Ask yourself why fox propaganda machine refuses to show you the most important, live hearings of our history this coming Thursday evening.
Fox supports the attempts to overthrow the federal government based the most devious lie ever told in the U.S. Hannity and Carlson plan to spew lies about the J6 committee's work during Thursday's kickoff hearing at 8:00 pm. They want to keep you ignorant. That is how authoritarians prefer their people. You are free to go to other stations to learn Truth. Do allow fox to leave you behind. These hearings have been described as "Bombshells," "Information that will blow the roof of the house off."
Six sessions that will mark the culmination of an inquiry that has involved more than 1,000 interviews and reviews of more than 125,000 records. Taken together, the work represents the most comprehensive record yet of the deadly assault, and which panel members have come to believe stands out as only the most visible evidence of a broader plot to undermine American democracy — one that emanated from the White House. And the intentions to murder Mike Pence."
I know it is way too long for the cult to read, but education of this importance to the brainwashed cannot be reduced to a one-sentence meme.
Well said.
I feel we have the power in this cyberwar to go directly to the source of the brainwashing machine. We must try, even though it gives me a stomachache to visit the Alt Reality Machine, I do it to fight against fascism which will be much worse.
Fox News…. like so many “Yellow Journalists” before it…is headed for the ash heap of history. In the meantime they’ll make money with their disinformation that plays to the fears of their audience. Restrictions against this sort of so-called “free expression” are necessary and inevitable because in a true democracy their heinous diatribes aren’t news; the same goes for so much of what is now on the internet on sites like FB. Ultimately, it is the responsibility of each person to make up their own mind about how they decide react to the flow of information, disinformation, propaganda, advertising and beliefs that stream out of a culture. A good democracy like ours can be resilient against so much of the dreck, but yelling “fire” to create panic, for profit? We really shouldn’t have to tolerate THAT as “news”….
Along with the RNC’s refusal to participate in the next presidential debates, this decision by FOX solidifies the commitment to propaganda and ignorance of the right in this country today.
Anybody surprised. Fox viewers cannot hear the truth anyway. They have no ears. Why we will remain the “Divided” States of America. They won’t question the Fox stance. They will just slurp the slop.
I am not surprised in the slightest. I again tried to engage with facts regarding just why gas prices are so high. I was met with resounding rebuttals of "libtard" and "get the facts, not fiction". I love their vast breadth of information and critical thinking skills <sarcasm font>
Michael, isn't it possible that Fox viewers will wonder why they aren't seeing their beloved Fox folks go after the hearings live, and then will be forced to see what all the hubbub is about? They might actually see truth....imagine that!
While I don't do any social media, I am trusting that people like Ally (who has a lot more tolerance for the right wing fools than I) will disseminate some of this on their fb and such accounts. Perhaps a bit will seep through to them but I am not holding my breath. The few conservatives that I interact with---the hypocrisy is absolutely incredible!
Nope, that is not their mindset at all.
We need to call it what it is: Fox Spews. Personally, I think it will help if we all call it that.
Well, Fox dares not air the hearings while at the same airing their fake "facts" and other anti-Democrat programming.
There are a good many R's who, while they do love hearing their rightwing narrative embroidered and their confirmation biases upheld, are not immune to doubt and disgust. Those would be the more centrist R's who have been in hiding while the radical rightwing fringe has been emboldened and winning primaries over their more moderate and competent fellow R's (think Blake Masters of Arizona or Kash Patel with his utterly disgusting lickspittle tale of propaganda for toddlers).
My mind is going in strange but understandable directions tonight. For the "...not the imposition of the will of a tyrannical minority on the rest of us" my mind saw the Supreme Court as the tyrannical minority imposing their will on half of us. When Eisenhower "reminded the men that they were fighting for the right of individuals to determine their own futures" again felt anger that "the right of individuals to determine their own futures" would no longer include all women. I had just read this article: https://www.nytimes.com/2022/06/06/opinion/democrats-midterms-abortion-roe.html on how the overturning of Roe could be the issue that would determine the midterm elections. If my anger on this is any indicator, you're darn right it will. Let's all channel our anger into something constructive like bending the arch of justice for women in the midterm elections. We, the People, all of us including Women this time.
AMEN!
Go, gals!
Yes!
If women's right go, it will be much easier to trample the rights of others by rich, white men. It is a much bigger thing than most of us realize. Much more than the tip of the iceberg. The Supreme Court is now a tool of the autocracy and using the originalist theory as an excuse to do their bidding.
YES!
And we can take comfort now in the fact that Merrick Garland is so conservative in his use of the powers of DOJ. He's not one to leave anything to chance in these kinds of indictments. These guys have the Sword of Damocles hanging over their necks, the guillotine is just down the hall. You can bet they're going to name Names. And all those "individuals known to the grand jury" should be quaking in their Florsheims.
Guccis, TC :-D
The ones quaking are wearing Florsheims. Still. The young braggarts are wearing Gucci. Or knock offs.
Bingo
What Christine said. :-)
Oh boy, I sure hope so TC! I put a lot of stock into your insights that you post!
YES!
I'm already planning to stay up crazy late hours, push everything else aside. I've waited for more than 18 months to learn the truth about what happened, and I don't want to miss even a minute of it. I cannot believe that I'm alive at a time when democracy is under direct assault in the United States of America by a whole cast of unsavory, unethical, unprincipled men and women. I hope I live long enough to see them get the punishments they've earned.
And the rewards we deserve and have earned.
Unita, mlbrowne. 🗽
I have been waiting since the 2016 election night for this moment. I am also heartened that what happened to the Mueller Report, which I am sure will also be used, will not be allowed to happen to the "multi-tentacled" J6 investigation and hearings. What a tangled attempted trainwreck has been happening for almost 7 years plus.
Attempted and failed train wreck.
So far!!
It seems to be easier when the Nazis are in a different country.
Look again. DeSantis is establishing a full blown Fascist State.
Having lived in Florida in the eighties, I am not surprised at the situation there. Leaving there in a station wagon with my three children in car seats strapped in the back was the best move I ever made, both for them and for me. I wake up each morning thankful to have escaped.
That was my point :-))
Oh. Ok. Now I get it! That was my 1:30 am, can't sleep brain!
That was my last clever thought of the day :-))
Well it was a good one!!
I studied Germany in the 1930s and used to discount the factors not present here. But suddenly we have the big lie, inflation, and conflict over sexual revolution with the bad guys indulging AND persecuting. Too too similar except that everyone is just worried about the day to day. My siblings are fascists. It takes a deep breath to say that.
Thank you, as always. Having just watched Rachel Maddie on MSNBC, seeing twice just how precarious our state is. After a lifetime of watching American politics (I am 88) tonight am totally convinced that Republicans will destroy democracy if they (with the aid of the Koch web and oligarchs) can. Time to write more GOTV postcards and hope voting will survive the GOP onslaught.
The Oathkeepers and the Proud Boys are not members of the Boy Scouts, kids that join a group for camaraderie, fun and learning. What is the reason for these men to band together in a gun toting violent group? Against isolation and loneliness? Their loyalty to each other and to what they perceive as fighting for Trump and Country is as misguided and dangerously naive as adolescents, to believe their ragtag group could fight against the United States of America in 2021. And win. Did they think of consequences? Some have blamed TFG and his ilk and said they were “used.” Easily recruited and taking the fall for TFG and his followers? Too late.
In her 1951 classic The Origins of Totalitarianism
Hannah Arendt paints loneliness as “the common ground for terror” and explores its function as both the chief weapon and the chief damage of oppressive political regimes.
“The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the convinced Communist, but people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction (i.e., the reality of experience) and the distinction between true and false (i.e., the standards of thought) no longer exist. https://www.themarginalian.org/2016/12/20/hannah-arendt-origins-of-totalitarianism-loneliness-isolation/
NBC News reports that fewer people are blaming the Jan. 6 insurrection on TFG. That the DOJ has announced these charges against the Proud Boys can hopefully awaken understanding that the event was a treasonous uprising,, and the conspiracy directing it came from members at the top of the administration, most likely including TFG. As we begin the voting processes that will culminate with the midterms in Nov. I pray a revolution will happen, one in which the voice of the majority of citizens is heard and respected, one in which the efforts to limit, subvert, and suppress the vote fails. Get to the polling places, and choose the candidates that will dedicate themselves to us, to the people.
People must not only get out and vote, but also encourage others to vote. Specifically, per an Op-Ed piece published recently, focus on certain states and even on the single issue of abortion, (especially those ages 18-40, in my opinion) as stated below:
[Edit: by Josh Marshall who is the editor and publisher of Talking Points Memo, quoted by Robert Hubbell]
"The campaign message is clear: If you want to protect Roe, give us those majorities. If this is your passion, here’s where to channel that passion. These are the Senate seats we need to hold (in New Hampshire, Arizona, Georgia and Nevada) and here are the ones we need to win (in Pennsylvania and Wisconsin and possibly in Ohio, Florida and North Carolina). With those commitments in hand, one question should be on the lips of every Democratic candidate. Will you make a firm commitment to never vote for a federal law banning abortion nationwide?
Few, if any, Republicans would be able to make that pledge. And their evasions wouldn’t just make them look ridiculous; that would put squarely on the table the very real threat that Republicans would enact a nationwide abortion ban as soon as January 2025. That could prove enough to win Senate races in Pennsylvania, Wisconsin and Ohio."
TFG is getting a free pass as DOJ blames the victims of Trump's attempted coup.
The Proud Boys are the DOJ punching bag around January 6th when, in fact, those guys are just as much a victim of Donald Trump as the poor woman who was shot trying to climb through an internal door window, or the poor Capitol police officer who died from bear spray in his face.
The Proud Boys actually "believed" what they were writing and saying. They were operating in good faith with information that led them to believe they were saving the United States, not attacking it. After all, their information was likely coming directly from Donald Trump, the actual President of the United States and on Jan 06 Donald Trump, on TV, asked them to attack the Capitol.
Mike. PB and Oath leaders have never “believed” any of their own sh*t nor have operated in good faith. They will cry that in their defense in a courtroom but mock it when recruiting their members.
Punching bag. Please.
Get the woodshed ready. DOJ is just starting to open the can of whoop ass.
Ooooh, Lady Justice is smiling as the "can of whoop ass" opens for the world to see. This is not just about America, the rest of the world is watching and many are rooting for the oldest democracy to prove it is a better option than autocracy or fascism, even to its own fricking homegrown terrorists and congress people. ...A Democracy that will require some tweaking and improvements in our next phase.
Here's hoping.
Yes, to date TFG has gotten a pass. Often, Prof. HCR has noted that the announcements issued by the Jan. 6 Committee indicate that the investigation has concentrated on low-hanging fruit. But as these rioters gave up more and more information, the chain of responsibility has revealed ever more high level participants who have been subpoenad and most of whom have given evidence. The only way TFG will be indicted is with the iron-clad evidence mounting against him. It is a travesty that his party acquitted him in the impeachment trial. Unless the work of the Committee can disclose the conspiracy at the highest level, TFG will walk. Which brings me back to my exhortation that voters even cast ballots in primaries. Here in Iowa, there is a slight chance that we can vote Chuck Grassley out. It's a long shot, but I believe we have to make this system work for us at the ballot box to keep it a democracy.
DOJ is going up the ladder, putting more pressure on these seditionists to name names. They are not victims. They are grown men who call themselves boys and who, fully armed, tried to overthrow our government.
Mike I am so glad to hear you say this. I am watching the charges yesterday thinking that these Proud Boys were the fall guys. Weren't they also Hispanics? I mention this to you not because of your nationality but because you are the first person I know to question this situation.
Barbara,
As others have mentioned, the Proud Boys are not innocent babies. However, it is likely that they did believe what Trump was telling them, did think that they were coming to save "America" and that they were not, necessarily, criminals.
Agree. I just wish we could get to the top of the criminal chain pertaining to January 6.
Thank you DC Press Corpse for that poll result.
😀 I only like polling places. Not these polls.
Like most others, I refer to the 45th President of the USA as "TFG," taking the cue from President Biden, who routinely refers to him as "The Former Guy." Lately, however, my habit has a darker turn. Not "The Former Guy," but "That F**king Goon."
Appropriate!
If they don't believe TFG sponsored it, just who do they believe? It was spontaneous? As Mencken said, "Nobody ever went, broke underestimating the intelligence of the North American public."
"Rep. Marjorie Taylor Greene posted a tweet Saturday declaring that “today and everyday is 1776” only hours after denying under oath that she knew the term was sometimes used as far-right shorthand for violent uprising." April 23, 2022
She has been taunting the DOJ for way too long.
Barbara, many entitities in the US are fomenting anti Government sentiment with abandon with no consequences, not the least of which is Fox News.
MJT knows, from the long history of Rush Limbaugh, that nothing will happen no matter what she says.
Limbaugh daily impugned individuals and any responsible person in government that was not a far right clown.
The consequences? He became an American Prince.
You are correct about the impunity aspect. It is depressing to watch these people damage a Democracy so easily. It's gotten really bad lately with the upcoming January 6 Committee results, and 2022 midterms elections. They repeatedly mention that they will impeach President Biden and Vice President Harris. They repeatedly talk of imprisonment and execution of their political enemies "when" they win in 2022. Gaetz is walking free of his charges. Roger Stone, Steve Bannon, Alex Jones, Tucker Carlson, and others are louder and more arrogant each day. They gain fame and fortune over the carcasses of Democracy and Decency in this Country and Lumbaugh showed them how to do it.
And now I notice the media increasingly talking up Rittenhouse's antics. He was in the news today firing off a semi-automatic gun and daring a sitting United States President to take it from him. This guy is a murderer and the media follows him. He is on his way to becoming another American Dark Prince.
So sorry to be such a downer today. It's a rainy dreary Summer here which just adds to everything. I'm watching vaccinated and boosted people around me get covid. Mild cases but still scary. And why? Because the dark Princesses and Princes decried vaccinations.
I don't know where your "here" is, but it is the same in my section of the Pacific Northwet. Dreary, rainy and depressing news all combine to keep us down.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2aQykuIaJVI
My personal "lift myself up" song. Its Lin-Manuel Miranda and Ben Platt on Freedom
Oh, too bad. It is beautiful and breezy here in Vermont and I am feeling really positive this week! Will try to spread it out to all of you!
It’s actually beautiful in Florida this week. desantis must be out of the state.
Perfect "state!"-ment.
LOL.
We will take it! Beautiful Vermont.
Same weather in the mid-South today
As is in Chicago.
Midwest
Barbara, when an observer writes down a provable fact, that is not a downer! That is just today's reality. Thanks for being willing to do.
Yes, the nuts are running loose and being amplified through social media.
I encourage you to be optimistic though. The Mean Value Thereom applies to everything, even far right nuts. So, although they MAY prevail, the probability that they do is lower than that they don't.
Thanks. "the mean value theorem states that at some interior point the instantaneous change is equal to average change of the function over the interval." So. In other words over time their chances of winning diminish. Right?
Throw her in the klink!
Or, just vote her out, for pity's sake. Take a good look at her legislative record...by any measure, a true waste of a congressional seat.
Voting her out isn't enough. There needs to be consequences. It is implied that our leaders be held to a higher standard of conduct. It's ethical, right? Green has lowered the bar on the ethics and behavior allowed of our leaders, significantly, and that needs to be addressed.
There is the matter of the oath of office; it seems the taking of an oath ain't what it used to be.
It seems we need Oath Police for our elected officials. ugh, words have been so tainted and spit upon by the alt right. Even the most important word in a democracy to uphold Oath.
"Lowered the bar...." She's just following the others as they all do backbends to try to move under the ever lowering limbo (Bimbo?) bar.
She won’t be voted out. She will be forced out through not being eligible to run for crimes against the government she has sworn to protect.
What many/most of these followers of TFG and the repubs have in common is following in the first place. Watching TFG never pay the price for corruption, they all believe they too are above the law. They don’t understand where they are in the hierarchy. We’re all waiting to see what’s next.
While I find it encouraging that these bottom feeders are getting what they deserve, it will be for naught if those higher up the food chain aren’t held accountable as well.
I fear that we will see a replay of the 2008 financial crisis, where not a single Wall Street executive was charged with a crime. I desperately hope that I am wrong.
Yes, as I have posted many times before, the probability that Trump walks free, as he is right now, is very, very high.
The number of times a rich, white man has been put in prison in the United States?
Well, now, I cannot think of any instances at all.
Hmmm; ...Jeffrey Epstein comes to mind...and some bad things happened to him while there...(8/10/2019)
He wasn't exactly in prison. He was in jail custody, pending trial (there is a difference.) Also.... that he was permitted to kill himself is a travesty.
Trump would never have the guts to do that. He will just sit in front of his little mirror grooming his dyed hair until it falls out. The worst thing for this modern narcissist— no mirrors, no internet or phone or outside information. Oh, and no McDonalds take out. Give him newspapers and books. Newspapers and Books! Hahahah! ;-) !!
Thank you for the correction. I'd say there was a bout a 50/50 chance "he was permitted to kill himself" given all he knew...
And that is most likely because he knew names of the rich and powerful who had been involved with his evil.
Exactly
Yeah... it doesn't jump out at me. And, one or two nighters like our "boy" Navarro do not count. Rikers Island like poor ole Jeffrey san... now, THAT is jail. None of this ankle-bracelet -girls-town pussy stuff like our ole sweetheart Martha got either. That kinda treatment of the privileged(?) is, like it or not, an item on the "Supremicist Platform" which they were going to 'put an end to' with their Jan 6th attack. The attack would have only made it worse. But, in their minds, they just wanted to kick some ass and 'take no prisoners'. And, for anyone who wonders what that last little phrase means..., it means to 'kill em all dead', hence no prisoners. Not everyone know that, even tho it's pretty obvious once one takes time to digest it.
DOJ follows suit.
Robert B. Hubbell - June 6, 2022.
"The DOJ filed an amended (“superseding”) indictment against the leaders of the Proud Boys alleging “seditious conspiracy.” The superseding indictment is here:
US v. Nordean, et al.
https://www.justice.gov/usao-dc/press-release/file/1510791/download
Read pages 8 through 23 to see the minute-by-minute description of the “acts in furtherance of a conspiracy” to interfere with the count of electoral ballots on January 6, 2021. Seditious conspiracy cases are notoriously difficult to prove, but the detail in the superseding indictment suggests that the DOJ has the evidence necessary to convict the defendants.
"The timing of the superseding indictment indicates that the January 6th Committee is putting pressure on the DOJ to pick up the pace of its own efforts to prosecute those involved in the insurrection on January 6th. Good! The upcoming hearing on Thursday of this week will likely increase the pressure on the DOJ exponentially. The Brookings Institution has published a guide to the January 6th hearings titled, Trump on Trial: A Guide to the January 6 Hearings and the Question of Criminality:
https://www.brookings.edu/research/trump-on-trial/
Per the report, it considers the following questions (among others):
"[W]hether Trump as a matter of law conspired with his outside counsel John Eastman, administration lawyer Jeffrey Clark, and others to defraud the United States in violation of 18 U.S.C. § 371 by scheming to block the electoral count on January 6, 2021 and to subvert the Department of Justice’s election enforcement work."
Read on ...:
https://roberthubbell.substack.com/p/doj-follows-suit?s=r
"The timing of the superseding indictment indicates that the January 6th Committee is putting pressure on the DOJ to pick up the pace of its own efforts to prosecute those involved in the insurrection on January 6th. Good! "
Well, the existing "pace" of the DOJ can best be described as "Glatial".
No kidding. The DOJ is letting Fox News and Trump totally define the narratrive around Jan 06.
Maybe the DOJ is just giving them all the rope they need to hang themselves - rather than imposing constraints that could disrupt the path of evidence growing with this narrative - maybe this glacial pace is the best way to serve justice in the long run ...?
The DOJ pace is not glacial, it is right on schedule. We only have one chance to kill the king (and jail all the king's men). Garland knows best how to do it.
I am also watching Peter Doocey walk all over the new Press Secretary in the White House Press Briefings. The media has declared President Biden ineffective, January 6 Committee irrelevant and the House Republicans victorious in 2022 midterms.
And the DOJ is letting the evil doers do and say whatever they want.
Yes. I do think timing is important, and, that the optimal timing for arrests has long past.
The frst episode of Seditious Conspiracy 2020 through 2022 starts Thursday in primetime hosted by Rachel & Lawrence on MSNBC among others. Earlier tonite, Rachel demonstrated lawyer-like knowledge of the elements of the Fed seditious conspiracy statute. Lawrence O'Donnell is a former Staff Director of the U.S. Senate Finance Committee & writer and producer of the NBC series, The West Wing. Several Oath 'Violators' have agreed to testify for the Fed prosecution. Devastating footage of Pizzola will likely be shown along with decoded encrypted admissions. Not entertainment. June 7 Update: AP NEWS is now reporting that British filmmaker & Proud Boys documentarian, NICK QUESTED, will be a Select Commitee witness at the first January 9, Thursday, primetime Hearing along with his powerful footage of "Enrique" Tarrio & "Stewart" Rhodes infamous meeting in a underground garage in DC before the Jan 6 'overt acts.' Aside: Personally, I am very interested in how QUESTED uses his camera, documentary style,
which has great impact on his content.
It's being carried by every channel except Fox Snooze - ABC, CBS, NBC, CNN, MSNBC. and people thought it would only be on cable news as late as last week.
And C-SPAN?
Www.c-span.org
https://www.c-span.org/video/?520282-1/open-testimony-january-6-committee
... got a link?
https://msnbc.com/rachel-maddow
Thank you Bryan - I should just subscribe - got to pay down credit debts first!!
Then I must train myself to link automatically....
There are a lot of way to watch online.
This organization Mobilize.us is coordinating live watch events
https://www.mobilize.us/jan6hearings/
They also have an online watch based out of DC that they will have their own expert panel.
Aside from C-span, The 1/6 committee itself has a youtube channel that will “broadcast” live over the internet, and no doubt there will be youtube.com archives you can watch later if you can’t watch in real time:
https://january6th.house.gov/news/watch-live
Thank you R M!!
We are three-plus days out before most all of us will be totally immersed in J6, not likely to be focused on anything else. So in that light and confident that we can walk and chew gum at the same time, I wanted to slide in this non-J6 piece of news regarding gun control.
"Rep. Don Beyer Proposes Filibuster-Proof 1,000% Tax on AR-15s.
"We think that a 1,000% fee on assault weapons is just the kind of restrictive measure that creates enough fiscal impact to qualify for reconciliation."
https://www.commondreams.org/news/2022/06/06/beyer-proposes-filibuster-proof-1000-tax-ar-15s?utm_source=daily_newsletter&utm_medium=Email&utm_campaign=daily_newsletter_text
Morning Lynell. I understand and hold a very conservative and well informed opinion about guns based on history, knowledge and family experience. However, I abhor the regulation in this country regarding guns. Nothing about it represents safety or proper access.
Good place to post latest from Politics Girl, Leigh McGowan. She is at, shall I say, her most “pithy” in this quick 3min post.
https://youtu.be/yMwCixv1D6g
Agree, Christine. "Our kids cannot be replaced. But our Senators can" ~Charles Booker, Kentucky candidate for Senate. https://twitter.com/Booker4KY/status/1533821239390785537?s=20&t=cYJ2fxmEu9yszqsWGn9FpA
So succinct! Perfect! Thank you, Christine!! Many forwards on this one!
Thank You Christine! Reposted.
And how about a 5000% tax on high capacity ammo magazines ?
How appropriate for D-Day, for landing on the beach. The war was not over then, but after months of planning, the full force was committed to the battle. I appreciate supporting the importance of these indictments with the symbolism of this date. Thank you for conveying this bit of hope and resolution.
It's also important to note that in the 11 months between D-Day and VE Day, the Allied forces suffered more casualties killed and wounded fighting across northwestern Europe than they had in the five previous years of war in Europe.
My friend the late Archie Maltbie was 2 weeks past his 22nd birthday when he flew his first combat mission as a pilot of a P-47 Thunderbolt on D-Day. 11 months later, two weeks short of his 23rd birthday, by then a Captain and the Operations Officer of his squadron, he was planning the next mission when the phone rang and the order was given to cease operations, that a ceasefire was on. "I turned and looked at the squadron assignment board. Of the 36 men I flew that mission with on D-Day, there were three of us still in the squadron. Ten had survived their tours and gone home. The rest were gone, most were dead. some were prisoners of war."
There was a big price paid for the victory.
Indeed, and there is a big price for this one, from COVID deaths caused purely by resistance, through alienated friends and family and the death of vital legislation, to the clashes yet to come. Many thought Merrick Garland was not doing anything, and I hope they recognize his tenacity and also his bravery in not bowing to the clamor to do something prematurely. Will America, with its excessive love of speed and flamboyance, understand and support him? Same question applies to Biden's measured approach to world affairs that seems so plodding but stays the distance. Bravery and sacrifice come in many forms, from death to hopeful resistance and the sheer drudgery of building a solid case.
These are crucial times. He needs to pick up the pace no matter what.
It would be great if things moved more rapidly, but I think what he needs is to get a conviction. I believe in the old saying, "It's not as important that the world move on your time schedule, as that it simply moves in your direction."
I surely hope you are correct in this.
I hope so, too.
The price remains so high, TC. Why can’t we get it right? I’m keeping my kittens and unicorns on the shelf until we do. Thank you for your voice, TC. Another that has informed and prepared me for this time in our history. Much Light!
The Justice Department has indicted the feet -- the foot soldiers. Where there is seditious conspiracy, it is of course the head that counts.
Only when that falls...
So now is the D-Day moment. But the world cannot wait until April for that ending in the Fuehrerbunker.
Peter,
Yes, the Proud Boys seem to be the the DOJ punching bag around January 6th when, in fact, those guys are just as much a victim of Donald Trump as the poor woman who was shot trying to climb through an internal door window, or the poor Capitol police officer who died from bear spray in his face.
The Proud Boys actually "believed" what they were writing and saying. They were operating in good faith with information that led them to believe they were saving the United States, not attacking it. After all, their information was likely coming directly from Donald Trump, the actual President of the United States and on Jan 06 Donald Trump, on TV, asked them to attack the Capitol.
Thanks, Mike.
And yes, feet do usually go where the head tells them to go... and do what the head tells them to do.
And, as that Arab proverb puts it so succinctly...
"The fish stinks from the head downwards..."
The PBO are just the low-hanging fruit. I hope they go farther up the tree. If not, it is all for naught.