I know good people that voted for Trump. It made me question their authenticity because I could not believe they would vote for a clearly racists, misogynist, criminal, dim wit to hold the most important job in America, maybe the world. I thought it was so irresponsible of them and couldn't, wouldn't speak to them for a very long time an…
I know good people that voted for Trump. It made me question their authenticity because I could not believe they would vote for a clearly racists, misogynist, criminal, dim wit to hold the most important job in America, maybe the world. I thought it was so irresponsible of them and couldn't, wouldn't speak to them for a very long time and I cut the ones that really didn't matter that much to me from my life. I did so to prove the depth of my disgust. I will never trust them ever again. I felt so deceived. But I never thought they were bad people. I just didn't like them anymore. I don't think they were confused or brainwashed. Hypocrites? Some. Without conscience? No. Many still refuse to see they did a stupid, stupid thing. Not unusual. Most have quit politics because they plan to not vote or vote Republican again, if not for Trump. Ask him about the Trump administrations policies and they can't answer you. They didn't partake in J6 but understand that those people were misinformed as to the legality of their actions and the lies Trump told.
Do I know I know bad people? What makes a person bad, some sort of mix between good and terrible? Yes I have known/know a few of those. Do I know they voted for Trump? No. I would put my money on that most of them did. I think most of the Republicans in the house fall into this category. I don't think they are confused or brainwashed. Hypocrites? Yes. Without conscience? Yes. They refuse to see the consequences of what they did and would vote for Trump again no problem.
I don't know any terrible people if by terrible you mean no redeeming qualities. That is just not my world. I would be surprised if terrible people even vote. They don't care about anything much less who the president is because that means they think beyond themselves. It is this category that disturbs me because I think several members of the house and Senate and wannabes fall into this category. You all know who I mean. Not confused at all. Hypocrisy, lying, dehumanizing people are tools of the trade for terrible people.
Saying Trump voters were/are confused let's them off the hook. I don't think any of them were/are confused. Everyone knew about pgate, melon legs, and Stormy. They gave that a pass. The only thing they disbelieved was conspiring with the Russians because you couldn't give it a pass if you believed it.
"Most have quit politics because they plan to not vote or vote Republican again, if not for Trump." The people you so aptly describe will take their bats and balls and go home. They will hide their humiliation under the guise of "all those politicians are corrupt". They will become non participants. Good.
And that is one of the ways we will win big time next year. The other tool in our tool box is the youth vote. We need to work hard to continue the strong trend of younger people voting. They don't suffer fools as easily as the Trumper Cult.
Of course, there's a sucker born every day. Just read about the momentum in RFKs campaign.
Martha Woods, As we have seen in the House, party dictates so much. The fact remains that if one caucuses with the GOP, one will be pressured into supporting many of the same policies for which Trump was just a figurehead. And it ought to be apparent that the GOP leadership are at best synchophants and at worst even more committed to repression than he was, because while they live in lofty places, they are still vulnerable. Voting for the GOP but not for Trump is naive thinking, because the group that passes the laws and confirms judges will still be in power. For myself,I think there is a difference between “nice” people and “good” people, and one of the prime differences is just how much one’s actions are rooted in concern for one’s fellow man
My question is always do they walk their talk. I have had several people express to me how shocked they were when people they thought were good supported and still support him.
Martha, I appreciate your comment. I think that (in my corner of the world, which includes a boatload of white male cops), the "tipping point" for them moving from being "conservative" to whatever descriptor can be applied to today's RepubliQan party was the 2008 election when the US elected a Black man to the office of President. The hatred and fear was palpable. Then, in the election of 2016 where the presidential choice was between a woman and tfg, the die was cast. Further, tfg gave his permission for expressing hatred and anger let loose the torrent we are seeing today. Couple that with the intentional divide in our country via the use of social media by forces from both within and outside the US, and you see the morass we're in today.
Ally House, I have said many times that when we elected President Obama it scared the hell out of white males, especially ones that tended to be insecure in the first place. Hillary Clinton was the most qualified person to ever run for president in my book but she was a woman and insecure white people (men and women) were groomed by Agent Chaos (my new name for the former guy) to hate and loath her. She still beat him by 3M votes and yet, we were stuck with him and may be again unless we get everyone to vote again! Hopefully, we can conquer the hate that he uncovered and emboldened in our country.
Colette, I looked at the 2008 Democratic primary as an interesting experiment: who was the lesser of evils, a Black man or a white woman. The Black guy got elected to two terms; the white woman (in the subsequent non-incumbent election) won by 3 million votes, but lost in the archaic Electoral College, and I got my answer.
Yes, I agree. The election of Obama brought forth loads of racist hatred. We were in Charleston on election night in 2008. When we were in the bar having dinner and the returns were starting to come in, the white people in the bar were not cheering. At midnight, when the election was finally declared, we heard lots of people celebrating in the streets as we were at the Francis Marion hotel which is in a fairly black area. College of Charleston just around the corner and the church where the terrible murders took place on the other side of the square which of course had a big statue of John Calhoun in it. We took a couple tours of Charleston, one led by a white guy and one focused on the black heritage. Interesting what they had to say about some of the same places. We were in Savannah just before the election and heard one guy bragging that he had just voted for Sarah....remember her.
I agree with you completely. They never expected a person of color could get elected and they looked around and saw that people of color were working their way up and even dominating some fields, like medicine and sports. I did not understand that where I saw something wonderful some of my friends and co-workers (predominantly male and white) saw a threat to their way of life. As for Hillary, well my co-workers in VA were largely white women that voted for sweet Laura Bush instead of that haughty french woman. I almost fell out of my chair the first time I was told that. They didn't care about the Iraq war at all and that Republicans had fabricated a reason to invade. Heavens no. And the men thought Kerry was unacceptable because he had experienced war and said WTF while Cheney couldn't wait to invade Iraq on behalf of Haliburton. Go figure. Did you read the NYT opinion piece on what Republicans think is a lie? If it weren't true. It would be funny.
I think I would like your wife:) It is hard for people to admit they are wrong, particularly if they don't see it. Just not an easy thing to do...to see through the fog.
Sometimes I think that people who work in environments where the path to success depends on doing what bosses say they want become immune to the defects of the organization, its goals, and ways of implementing their aims. So people end up working for thugs, knowing they are thugs and knowing that their work is not for anything good, but they do it anyway. Maybe partly because they don't see alternatives, fear quitting and starting over somewhere else, and generally accept pretty shitty Faustian bargains for their labor. I've seen it in a corporate setting, which I couldn’t abide after realizing how dangerous the quicksand was to personal integrity, and quit. My colleagues were stunned that I'd leave such a 'cushy' situation and wondered where I thought I'd find something as 'rewarding'….certainly only meaning in terms of $$$. People know Trump is lying…they expect it, but for weird reasons of their own, they give it and many of his other transgressions a pass. It's a mass psychosis, in my view, but so is the 'loyalty' to other entities and their people about which/whom similar bad things have been exposed…churches, companies, rulers, sports teams?
Your assessment mirrors one which Mike S has espoused: If you grow up doing what the white man at the front of the church tells you to do, it is natural and normal for you to do what you're told to do by the white guy in charge of whatever you're in, be it church, employment, or home.
Sounds familiar….as a recovering Catholic for 60:years, I partly attribute my deprogramming from parochial school and CDC ( Christian Doctrine Classes) to my father who was a bit of an iconoclast. His pithy assessments of the people of the cloth sort of gave permission to toss it all into the rubbish heap. The rejection would have happened sooner but for trying to assuage Mama.
I am so grateful to have grown up in a “none” household….goes back to my wonderful granny born in 1898 (and extended to her progeny—now 5 generations); open-hearted, open-minded & lack of dogma of any kind….well, except to be kind, do good, pay attention, lend a hand when needed & carry your own weight as long as you are able—oh, and garden! As a kid—junior high years—went w/ friends a couple of times to their church services & although pleasant enough, it didn’t stick (would have rather been at the beach body surfing!).
I don't let any of them off the hook...I know several Rs who did not vote for him because they could see how bad he was. None of them defended him either. Those that continue to support him are those who are unhappy because they think they have lost their unmerited place as merely being white, or they loved the class clown, or they are just as racist, misogynistic, and biased against queer people who finally have a few rights. The drag queen business is nonsense because many of them love the idea of men dressing up as women. Some of them are religious zealots who want to control the behavior of everyone including what they read and learn in school. This has always existed beneath the surface or at times like the 1920s in plain sight. They love death star because he has given them carte blanche to be awful without hiding it. And they can oppose any and all government programs because helping the less fortunate and making society better for everyone is socialism.
I know good people that voted for Trump. It made me question their authenticity because I could not believe they would vote for a clearly racists, misogynist, criminal, dim wit to hold the most important job in America, maybe the world. I thought it was so irresponsible of them and couldn't, wouldn't speak to them for a very long time and I cut the ones that really didn't matter that much to me from my life. I did so to prove the depth of my disgust. I will never trust them ever again. I felt so deceived. But I never thought they were bad people. I just didn't like them anymore. I don't think they were confused or brainwashed. Hypocrites? Some. Without conscience? No. Many still refuse to see they did a stupid, stupid thing. Not unusual. Most have quit politics because they plan to not vote or vote Republican again, if not for Trump. Ask him about the Trump administrations policies and they can't answer you. They didn't partake in J6 but understand that those people were misinformed as to the legality of their actions and the lies Trump told.
Do I know I know bad people? What makes a person bad, some sort of mix between good and terrible? Yes I have known/know a few of those. Do I know they voted for Trump? No. I would put my money on that most of them did. I think most of the Republicans in the house fall into this category. I don't think they are confused or brainwashed. Hypocrites? Yes. Without conscience? Yes. They refuse to see the consequences of what they did and would vote for Trump again no problem.
I don't know any terrible people if by terrible you mean no redeeming qualities. That is just not my world. I would be surprised if terrible people even vote. They don't care about anything much less who the president is because that means they think beyond themselves. It is this category that disturbs me because I think several members of the house and Senate and wannabes fall into this category. You all know who I mean. Not confused at all. Hypocrisy, lying, dehumanizing people are tools of the trade for terrible people.
Saying Trump voters were/are confused let's them off the hook. I don't think any of them were/are confused. Everyone knew about pgate, melon legs, and Stormy. They gave that a pass. The only thing they disbelieved was conspiring with the Russians because you couldn't give it a pass if you believed it.
"Most have quit politics because they plan to not vote or vote Republican again, if not for Trump." The people you so aptly describe will take their bats and balls and go home. They will hide their humiliation under the guise of "all those politicians are corrupt". They will become non participants. Good.
And that is one of the ways we will win big time next year. The other tool in our tool box is the youth vote. We need to work hard to continue the strong trend of younger people voting. They don't suffer fools as easily as the Trumper Cult.
Of course, there's a sucker born every day. Just read about the momentum in RFKs campaign.
Martha Woods, As we have seen in the House, party dictates so much. The fact remains that if one caucuses with the GOP, one will be pressured into supporting many of the same policies for which Trump was just a figurehead. And it ought to be apparent that the GOP leadership are at best synchophants and at worst even more committed to repression than he was, because while they live in lofty places, they are still vulnerable. Voting for the GOP but not for Trump is naive thinking, because the group that passes the laws and confirms judges will still be in power. For myself,I think there is a difference between “nice” people and “good” people, and one of the prime differences is just how much one’s actions are rooted in concern for one’s fellow man
My question is always do they walk their talk. I have had several people express to me how shocked they were when people they thought were good supported and still support him.
I HOPE they're going home and refusing to play. Not so sure, though.
That guy is totally off the wall and has been for a long time.
Martha, I appreciate your comment. I think that (in my corner of the world, which includes a boatload of white male cops), the "tipping point" for them moving from being "conservative" to whatever descriptor can be applied to today's RepubliQan party was the 2008 election when the US elected a Black man to the office of President. The hatred and fear was palpable. Then, in the election of 2016 where the presidential choice was between a woman and tfg, the die was cast. Further, tfg gave his permission for expressing hatred and anger let loose the torrent we are seeing today. Couple that with the intentional divide in our country via the use of social media by forces from both within and outside the US, and you see the morass we're in today.
Ally House, I have said many times that when we elected President Obama it scared the hell out of white males, especially ones that tended to be insecure in the first place. Hillary Clinton was the most qualified person to ever run for president in my book but she was a woman and insecure white people (men and women) were groomed by Agent Chaos (my new name for the former guy) to hate and loath her. She still beat him by 3M votes and yet, we were stuck with him and may be again unless we get everyone to vote again! Hopefully, we can conquer the hate that he uncovered and emboldened in our country.
Colette, I looked at the 2008 Democratic primary as an interesting experiment: who was the lesser of evils, a Black man or a white woman. The Black guy got elected to two terms; the white woman (in the subsequent non-incumbent election) won by 3 million votes, but lost in the archaic Electoral College, and I got my answer.
And the church does not have as much power when democrats win.
Why the Extreme court decision is so important for 2024. Now to change or do away with the electoral college so we the people's vote matters
Yes, I agree. The election of Obama brought forth loads of racist hatred. We were in Charleston on election night in 2008. When we were in the bar having dinner and the returns were starting to come in, the white people in the bar were not cheering. At midnight, when the election was finally declared, we heard lots of people celebrating in the streets as we were at the Francis Marion hotel which is in a fairly black area. College of Charleston just around the corner and the church where the terrible murders took place on the other side of the square which of course had a big statue of John Calhoun in it. We took a couple tours of Charleston, one led by a white guy and one focused on the black heritage. Interesting what they had to say about some of the same places. We were in Savannah just before the election and heard one guy bragging that he had just voted for Sarah....remember her.
I agree with you completely. They never expected a person of color could get elected and they looked around and saw that people of color were working their way up and even dominating some fields, like medicine and sports. I did not understand that where I saw something wonderful some of my friends and co-workers (predominantly male and white) saw a threat to their way of life. As for Hillary, well my co-workers in VA were largely white women that voted for sweet Laura Bush instead of that haughty french woman. I almost fell out of my chair the first time I was told that. They didn't care about the Iraq war at all and that Republicans had fabricated a reason to invade. Heavens no. And the men thought Kerry was unacceptable because he had experienced war and said WTF while Cheney couldn't wait to invade Iraq on behalf of Haliburton. Go figure. Did you read the NYT opinion piece on what Republicans think is a lie? If it weren't true. It would be funny.
So true....
Martha,
"Many still refuse to see they did a stupid, stupid thing."
For sure, when I do something dumb Martha, especially if my wife is there to observe it, I never admit to it.
:-)
I did not vote for Trump though. She would have kicked me out.
I think I would like your wife:) It is hard for people to admit they are wrong, particularly if they don't see it. Just not an easy thing to do...to see through the fog.
Sometimes I think that people who work in environments where the path to success depends on doing what bosses say they want become immune to the defects of the organization, its goals, and ways of implementing their aims. So people end up working for thugs, knowing they are thugs and knowing that their work is not for anything good, but they do it anyway. Maybe partly because they don't see alternatives, fear quitting and starting over somewhere else, and generally accept pretty shitty Faustian bargains for their labor. I've seen it in a corporate setting, which I couldn’t abide after realizing how dangerous the quicksand was to personal integrity, and quit. My colleagues were stunned that I'd leave such a 'cushy' situation and wondered where I thought I'd find something as 'rewarding'….certainly only meaning in terms of $$$. People know Trump is lying…they expect it, but for weird reasons of their own, they give it and many of his other transgressions a pass. It's a mass psychosis, in my view, but so is the 'loyalty' to other entities and their people about which/whom similar bad things have been exposed…churches, companies, rulers, sports teams?
Your assessment mirrors one which Mike S has espoused: If you grow up doing what the white man at the front of the church tells you to do, it is natural and normal for you to do what you're told to do by the white guy in charge of whatever you're in, be it church, employment, or home.
Sounds familiar….as a recovering Catholic for 60:years, I partly attribute my deprogramming from parochial school and CDC ( Christian Doctrine Classes) to my father who was a bit of an iconoclast. His pithy assessments of the people of the cloth sort of gave permission to toss it all into the rubbish heap. The rejection would have happened sooner but for trying to assuage Mama.
I am so grateful to have grown up in a “none” household….goes back to my wonderful granny born in 1898 (and extended to her progeny—now 5 generations); open-hearted, open-minded & lack of dogma of any kind….well, except to be kind, do good, pay attention, lend a hand when needed & carry your own weight as long as you are able—oh, and garden! As a kid—junior high years—went w/ friends a couple of times to their church services & although pleasant enough, it didn’t stick (would have rather been at the beach body surfing!).
I don't let any of them off the hook...I know several Rs who did not vote for him because they could see how bad he was. None of them defended him either. Those that continue to support him are those who are unhappy because they think they have lost their unmerited place as merely being white, or they loved the class clown, or they are just as racist, misogynistic, and biased against queer people who finally have a few rights. The drag queen business is nonsense because many of them love the idea of men dressing up as women. Some of them are religious zealots who want to control the behavior of everyone including what they read and learn in school. This has always existed beneath the surface or at times like the 1920s in plain sight. They love death star because he has given them carte blanche to be awful without hiding it. And they can oppose any and all government programs because helping the less fortunate and making society better for everyone is socialism.