The Trump administration did not respond until almost 5:00 this evening to last night’s astonishing news that Russian operatives had offered bounties on US soldiers during the Afghanistan peace talks, and that the administration had been briefed on this development back in March and had chosen not to respond.
I'm happy to have them attacking Twitler, but do not turn your back on them. They are GOP operatives and mercenaries, and assuming Biden wins the election, immediately afterward they'll have their knives out for Democrats again.
Bill Colburn, Yes, they are hired guns, but they are aimed at a target I want hit, so I will send them money from time to time for bullets. That said at the zoom meeting I listened to my take is this individuals hate what is happening to their country and are committed to getting the country on a better track.
Bill Colburn, I hear what you are saying and in the future if I don't like where their guns are pointed they will not get money from me and I think a lot of others
As much as I welcome all the help we can get to defeat trump, I am concerned that the conservatives opposing trump will turn their efforts to block progressive changes once the election is past.
I think he will do that, but what he won't do is something Democrats never do--figure out a way to take control of the messaging. Republicans latched onto the importance of PR a long time ago. Democrats haven't gotten it yet. Why talented Democrats cannot learn how to do PR after so many years of watching Republicans ace it is beyond me.
Tery G, that is why I hope he gets people who worked for Bill Clinton in his cabinet. I think Bill Clinton had a team that could do the messaging. They also had more fight. As much as I love President Obama, he tended to get battle fatigue especially after the passing of The Affordable Care Act. He was counting on Hillary Clinton winning (Newsflash! I was too), so he did not push on the Supreme Court nomination and Russian interference when he should have. I read an article where it was stated they could write a book on the things that were going to be addressed if Hillary Clinton would have won. If only it was so.
Exactly. They'll be back after the Democrats, especially progressive Democrats, with their knives out, as soon as the 2020 election is over. I'm happy to have them on our side for now, but they are not our friends in the long run (e.g. by January 20th, 2021, they will definitely switch sides again).
Check out Election Whisperer w Rachel Bitecofer on YouTube. Their analysis is very holistic of all the races in play around the country. Its fascinating
If Trump and Pence weren't briefed, the White House response would have come sooner and more forcefully. More media outlets have confirmed the initial accounts, and the administration denial will, undoubtedly, prove to be a lie. The disgust will grow. Trump's lack of action to punish Putin appears to be the most visceral evidence yet that he is betraying the country.
Why would a foreign government would put a bounty on killing Americans? The only reasons that make sense are vanity and revenge; and Putin is well known for both. But, I cannot come up with any reason why Trump would not be told, or why the administration would lie claiming neither he nor Pence were briefed (one or the other has to be true).
There is much more to this story, and I feel like every investigative journalist is as awake as I am tonight thinking about this. One thing is clear: every answer leads back to Trump and his incompetence, vanity, ego, and disregard for the country he "leads."
If this story explodes, I cannot help but think it will chip away at Trump's support. After all, the military at risk include white, working class, straight, gun-loving, god-fearing, confederate flag waving Trumpers. Not just a bunch of ANTIFA snowflakes or people of color. Has Fox News even reported this???
In this and any many other stories that show up the lack of realism in all that Trump does, he probably thought he had put a lid on this story in March so that it wouldn't "rain on his parade" with his surrender treaty with the Taliban and "Dunkurque style" evacution of troops from Afghanistan. Thereafter, as always and as with the Covid-19 disaster, the Ostrich strategy is his only response or as the 3 wise monkeys would say "I can't hear it, I can't see it and I won't say it!"
Putin's objective in offering bounties was undoubtedly to generate chaos in his "opponents" . Firstly, chaos undermining any "peacefull" withdrawl of US troops from Afghanistan making the American look ineffective and inefficient. At the same time mocking their own creature Trump...showing who is boss! Secondly, chaos in this electoral period when the story would break undermining the faith of the American people in their government institutions and military. If the NYT and WaPo hadn't broken the story the Russians probably would have done so. Chaos in the US serves Putin's purpose. He has probably given up on Trump and will be looking to weaken the institutions and economy as much as possible before Biden takes over in 2021. In all of this, one has to remember that Putin's Russia doesn't have the economic wherewithall to pay for his pretensions...so any inexpensive strategy like this entirely suits his purpose.
It doesn't seem plausible that anything at this time would convince the House to open another Impeachment Procedure. So basically he thinks he can get away with anything. He'll spin this one in a haphazard way, knowing full well that nothing will come of it.
And in regards to Mr. Lindsey Graham, one short and curly does not a pair make. He's probably just trying to get out from under the bus before it crushes him.
As much as I admire Gov. Cuomo's response to the coronavirus, I disagree with his view on facts. The Republicans live in their own universe and clearly have their own facts, and perhaps their own physics for all we know. In fact, if you substitute their insistence that tax cuts inevitably produce economic growth for "reopen quickly ... because it will go away" in the article above; you will see that reality has rarely intruded in their thought process. Perhaps they have been able to cling to tax cuts more obstinately because the deadly effects are longer term and less immediately obvious. I don't see them changing course in time to avoid the clearly marked reef in November.
I agree. Facts are immutable. They are obdurate things. Like granite. Like diamonds. They don't change based on opinions. Lots of people have opinions about facts, and lots of people like to tell lies to obscure the facts, but facts are facts, as the GOP is now discovering with the reality of Covid-19 transmission - how it works, how it is not subject to belief, and how we are now quite literally the worst nation on earth when it comes to fighting the disease.
I must say, I never thought I'd be simultaneously living in the United States of America and a failed state that is a disease-ridden global pariah whose citizens are prohibited from traveling to counties where those diseases have been successfully controlled...and yet, here we are.
The entire relationship between Russia and Trump is mind boggling to me. I don't even know what to call it. An affair? An imbroglio? A crime? An opera (Crimea River)? I feel confident that Trump would not be president without Russian machinations. That said, his supporters can't get enough of saying "No Collusion!" after several years of investigation and, by the way, an impeachment. Those cries belie two points, for me. Trump and the Republican apparatus moved Heaven and Earth to squelch, squash, obfuscate, delay and deny every point of inquiry, to make sure their partisans could talk away the accusations. It actually was impressive to behold. And perhaps more important, the real issue isn't that Trump's team actively planned and conspired with Russian operatives. It was more an aligning of interests, which benefitted Trump hugely as he might say. There was no need to collude. Russia was executing a plan of it's own making, to the immense detriment of America. The Democrats could have and should have handled it better. They thought it expedient to focus on only one big issue, for easier messaging and streamlining the fight. The problem turned out that when Republicans successfully swatted that back, Dems had nothing left. It's all history now, but I needed to get that off my chest.
However, we now have this new information about Russia undermining the U.S. overseas. This leaves Trump so exposed it's making my head spin. He either knew about it, or he didn't. There's not a whole lot of in between there. Whichever one you pick, Trump looks terrible. Incompetent or traitorous. Tough choice, but putting it like that he's got to go for incompetent. I don't see any good way to spin it, but it will be interesting to watch them try.
The real question in my mind - is this all part of Russia's grand plan? They helped elect a divisive, corrupt, and racist leader. Then watch as we tear ourselves apart for a few years, and then pull the rug out from under him, just to see what happens. Admittedly, that's perhaps giving Russia too much credit, but it's crossed my mind. My true hope is it finally wakes a lot of people up for the need, and benefit, of having effective, competent governance. And maybe, just maybe, brings us all a little closer together.
Good points. If Comrade 45 didn't know, it's because he systematically destroyed his own chain of command, which points go gross incompetence, stupidity, and inability to meet the needs of his office. If Comrade 45 did know (which I am absolutely confident he did), then he's a traitor, having committed treason as described in Article 3 of the US Constitution.
Either way, Comrade 45 has playing to Putin like that man owns him body and soul. Comrade 45 and his organization likely owe gigantic sums of money to some very scary people in Russia, including Putin, who do not take "Sorry, no," or "How about I stiff you like I stiff all my contractors?" for an answer. Comrade 45 is likely terrified of what they would do to him and his family of grifters if he failed to deliver the goods. Exposing Comrade 45's exploits via something like a "pee tape" or other kompromat is probably the least of his fears.
That is the most logical explanation. The whole pee tape business - whether it happened or not - is nothing but a salacious distraction from the financial facts that will eventually be known.
Unfortunately, there are a lot of Trump supporters who would rather have Russia in our government than Democrats. That's an indication of just how polarized American politics is today. John Bolton revealed how much he despises and blames the Democrats in some of his recent interviews for his book promotion.
For the cult, the trumpers simply say the whole story is a hoax by people trying the undermine the Great Leader. I hesitate to ask my pro-trump relatives if they are still being suckered.
Heather: The key report here is from the New York Times: "The intelligence finding was briefed to President Trump, and the White House’s National Security Council discussed the problem at an interagency meeting in late March, the officials said. Officials developed a menu of potential options — starting with making a diplomatic complaint to Moscow and a demand that it stop, along with an escalating series of sanctions and other possible responses, but the White House has yet to authorize any step, the officials said."
Trump, Pence and Meadows have denied being briefed on this. If so, who was this options paper for? Obviously, it had to be for the President. Who saw it? I think Congress needs to ask National Security Adviser O'Brien this question under oath.
Comrade 45 and his toadies are clearly lying their heads off. They were briefed. They knew. They thought the story had been successfully killed and buried. Now that it's exploded into view, they know it's so bad that the only way out is to successfully make the claim that the IC did not brief the US Director of National Intelligence, the President of the United States, the Vice President of the United States, or anyone else in the cabinet about this. That does not wash, and it will not hold water. Expect these claims to crumble as they are examined. This is a situation that can only get worse for them over time. Ironically, that's the thing they never see coming. They think everything like this is easily buried and forgotten, but every time they do it, the whole mess blows up in their faces like an infected boil. It's like that old definition of insanity.
We live in a country where facts are skewed to convince people who won’t be informed. I am in a state (Florida) where Trump’s “mini-me” Governor DeSantis tells everyone the deadly spike is due to the dump of data from increased testing. Not true. But what really scares me is the fact that the Republican ideology has gotten more severe with each Republican administration. Once again, we are governed by ideology. Even if we get a New Democratic administration next, you know the Republicans will do their best to undermine it as they have done so many times before. I just finished reading HCR’s book “To Make Men Free, the History of the Republican Party”. Here’s my suggestion for today. Re-release this book in paperback so it is more available. While we can’t get everyone to read it, it would be a start.
And meanwhile at least one person is dead after a man opened fire with a semi-automatic rifle on peaceful protesters in Jefferson Square Park in Louisville, Kentucky.
In the time of the Orange Beast, it appears the second amendment trumps the first, at least as far as the party of trump is concerned.
(New York Times, Washington Post, The Sydney Morning Herald …)
‘Our ability to help one another is what will make our victory over this disease endure. Because what you have done and what we will do until this disease is defeated is to come together as a family. Do what we do best. Lift each other up.’ – These are lines near the end of a biopic on FDR as he speaks to fellow patients at Warms Springs. It resonated with me. Isn’t it the type of message we should be able to expect from a President of the United States, particularly at a time like this? Not he resentful, spiteful Twitter trash we’re fed on a daily, if not hourly, basis. I am ashamed of my country now – and while I may understand how we got here , I will never fully accept why.
To me this shows the importance of the daily briefing and the integrity of the president. Did the president dismiss the briefing that week? Trump is a threat to the national security.
I am 110% confident that this information made it way up the chain of the IC all the way to the DNI and that the President and Vice President were both briefed. Russia paying bounties to third parties to kill American troops overseas is a Very Big Deal.
The Lincoln Project already has an ad out re: the Russian bounties. Glad they're on our team.
Jen Sinsel, it was a great ad! Those guys are machines
I'm happy to have them attacking Twitler, but do not turn your back on them. They are GOP operatives and mercenaries, and assuming Biden wins the election, immediately afterward they'll have their knives out for Democrats again.
Bill Colburn, Yes, they are hired guns, but they are aimed at a target I want hit, so I will send them money from time to time for bullets. That said at the zoom meeting I listened to my take is this individuals hate what is happening to their country and are committed to getting the country on a better track.
I hope you are right, but be cautious. They do not have a track record when it comes to positions on the issues or on Democratic politicians.
Bill Colburn, I hear what you are saying and in the future if I don't like where their guns are pointed they will not get money from me and I think a lot of others
Hazel Blumberg-McKee, I think the emergence of Trump warrants its own class.
As much as I welcome all the help we can get to defeat trump, I am concerned that the conservatives opposing trump will turn their efforts to block progressive changes once the election is past.
I totally understand! But let's beat Trump first. If Biden wins, he will get good people to deal with the politics.
I think he will do that, but what he won't do is something Democrats never do--figure out a way to take control of the messaging. Republicans latched onto the importance of PR a long time ago. Democrats haven't gotten it yet. Why talented Democrats cannot learn how to do PR after so many years of watching Republicans ace it is beyond me.
Tery G, that is why I hope he gets people who worked for Bill Clinton in his cabinet. I think Bill Clinton had a team that could do the messaging. They also had more fight. As much as I love President Obama, he tended to get battle fatigue especially after the passing of The Affordable Care Act. He was counting on Hillary Clinton winning (Newsflash! I was too), so he did not push on the Supreme Court nomination and Russian interference when he should have. I read an article where it was stated they could write a book on the things that were going to be addressed if Hillary Clinton would have won. If only it was so.
100%!
Exactly. They'll be back after the Democrats, especially progressive Democrats, with their knives out, as soon as the 2020 election is over. I'm happy to have them on our side for now, but they are not our friends in the long run (e.g. by January 20th, 2021, they will definitely switch sides again).
Check out Election Whisperer w Rachel Bitecofer on YouTube. Their analysis is very holistic of all the races in play around the country. Its fascinating
For now. Remember they are Libertarian Republicans at heart!
Rachel Bitecofer is part of Lincoln project and she has started a weekly series on YouTube- Election Whisperer. https://youtu.be/7mUprelMqys
Is Old Bull part of the Lincoln Project? I didn't know. I love her
I love her..
If Trump and Pence weren't briefed, the White House response would have come sooner and more forcefully. More media outlets have confirmed the initial accounts, and the administration denial will, undoubtedly, prove to be a lie. The disgust will grow. Trump's lack of action to punish Putin appears to be the most visceral evidence yet that he is betraying the country.
They. Were. Briefed. They. Knew. All of them. They knew.
And now the NYT is reporting that U.S. spies and commandos alerted superiors about the bounties as early as January. https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/28/us/politics/russian-bounties-warnings-trump.html
Why am I not shocked!
One of the talking heads I saw on TV said that if they were briefed there will be a paper trail.
Why would a foreign government would put a bounty on killing Americans? The only reasons that make sense are vanity and revenge; and Putin is well known for both. But, I cannot come up with any reason why Trump would not be told, or why the administration would lie claiming neither he nor Pence were briefed (one or the other has to be true).
There is much more to this story, and I feel like every investigative journalist is as awake as I am tonight thinking about this. One thing is clear: every answer leads back to Trump and his incompetence, vanity, ego, and disregard for the country he "leads."
If this story explodes, I cannot help but think it will chip away at Trump's support. After all, the military at risk include white, working class, straight, gun-loving, god-fearing, confederate flag waving Trumpers. Not just a bunch of ANTIFA snowflakes or people of color. Has Fox News even reported this???
In this and any many other stories that show up the lack of realism in all that Trump does, he probably thought he had put a lid on this story in March so that it wouldn't "rain on his parade" with his surrender treaty with the Taliban and "Dunkurque style" evacution of troops from Afghanistan. Thereafter, as always and as with the Covid-19 disaster, the Ostrich strategy is his only response or as the 3 wise monkeys would say "I can't hear it, I can't see it and I won't say it!"
From Fox:
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/lawmakers-want-answers-on-russia-paying-taliban-to-attack-us-troops.amp
Putin's objective in offering bounties was undoubtedly to generate chaos in his "opponents" . Firstly, chaos undermining any "peacefull" withdrawl of US troops from Afghanistan making the American look ineffective and inefficient. At the same time mocking their own creature Trump...showing who is boss! Secondly, chaos in this electoral period when the story would break undermining the faith of the American people in their government institutions and military. If the NYT and WaPo hadn't broken the story the Russians probably would have done so. Chaos in the US serves Putin's purpose. He has probably given up on Trump and will be looking to weaken the institutions and economy as much as possible before Biden takes over in 2021. In all of this, one has to remember that Putin's Russia doesn't have the economic wherewithall to pay for his pretensions...so any inexpensive strategy like this entirely suits his purpose.
It doesn't seem plausible that anything at this time would convince the House to open another Impeachment Procedure. So basically he thinks he can get away with anything. He'll spin this one in a haphazard way, knowing full well that nothing will come of it.
And in regards to Mr. Lindsey Graham, one short and curly does not a pair make. He's probably just trying to get out from under the bus before it crushes him.
As much as I admire Gov. Cuomo's response to the coronavirus, I disagree with his view on facts. The Republicans live in their own universe and clearly have their own facts, and perhaps their own physics for all we know. In fact, if you substitute their insistence that tax cuts inevitably produce economic growth for "reopen quickly ... because it will go away" in the article above; you will see that reality has rarely intruded in their thought process. Perhaps they have been able to cling to tax cuts more obstinately because the deadly effects are longer term and less immediately obvious. I don't see them changing course in time to avoid the clearly marked reef in November.
I agree. Facts are immutable. They are obdurate things. Like granite. Like diamonds. They don't change based on opinions. Lots of people have opinions about facts, and lots of people like to tell lies to obscure the facts, but facts are facts, as the GOP is now discovering with the reality of Covid-19 transmission - how it works, how it is not subject to belief, and how we are now quite literally the worst nation on earth when it comes to fighting the disease.
I must say, I never thought I'd be simultaneously living in the United States of America and a failed state that is a disease-ridden global pariah whose citizens are prohibited from traveling to counties where those diseases have been successfully controlled...and yet, here we are.
The entire relationship between Russia and Trump is mind boggling to me. I don't even know what to call it. An affair? An imbroglio? A crime? An opera (Crimea River)? I feel confident that Trump would not be president without Russian machinations. That said, his supporters can't get enough of saying "No Collusion!" after several years of investigation and, by the way, an impeachment. Those cries belie two points, for me. Trump and the Republican apparatus moved Heaven and Earth to squelch, squash, obfuscate, delay and deny every point of inquiry, to make sure their partisans could talk away the accusations. It actually was impressive to behold. And perhaps more important, the real issue isn't that Trump's team actively planned and conspired with Russian operatives. It was more an aligning of interests, which benefitted Trump hugely as he might say. There was no need to collude. Russia was executing a plan of it's own making, to the immense detriment of America. The Democrats could have and should have handled it better. They thought it expedient to focus on only one big issue, for easier messaging and streamlining the fight. The problem turned out that when Republicans successfully swatted that back, Dems had nothing left. It's all history now, but I needed to get that off my chest.
However, we now have this new information about Russia undermining the U.S. overseas. This leaves Trump so exposed it's making my head spin. He either knew about it, or he didn't. There's not a whole lot of in between there. Whichever one you pick, Trump looks terrible. Incompetent or traitorous. Tough choice, but putting it like that he's got to go for incompetent. I don't see any good way to spin it, but it will be interesting to watch them try.
The real question in my mind - is this all part of Russia's grand plan? They helped elect a divisive, corrupt, and racist leader. Then watch as we tear ourselves apart for a few years, and then pull the rug out from under him, just to see what happens. Admittedly, that's perhaps giving Russia too much credit, but it's crossed my mind. My true hope is it finally wakes a lot of people up for the need, and benefit, of having effective, competent governance. And maybe, just maybe, brings us all a little closer together.
Good points. If Comrade 45 didn't know, it's because he systematically destroyed his own chain of command, which points go gross incompetence, stupidity, and inability to meet the needs of his office. If Comrade 45 did know (which I am absolutely confident he did), then he's a traitor, having committed treason as described in Article 3 of the US Constitution.
Either way, Comrade 45 has playing to Putin like that man owns him body and soul. Comrade 45 and his organization likely owe gigantic sums of money to some very scary people in Russia, including Putin, who do not take "Sorry, no," or "How about I stiff you like I stiff all my contractors?" for an answer. Comrade 45 is likely terrified of what they would do to him and his family of grifters if he failed to deliver the goods. Exposing Comrade 45's exploits via something like a "pee tape" or other kompromat is probably the least of his fears.
I think that's the most plausible explanation. I hope it doesn't take several decades for the story behind all this to come out.
That is the most logical explanation. The whole pee tape business - whether it happened or not - is nothing but a salacious distraction from the financial facts that will eventually be known.
It was Eric who talked about Russian money flooding in.
Unfortunately, there are a lot of Trump supporters who would rather have Russia in our government than Democrats. That's an indication of just how polarized American politics is today. John Bolton revealed how much he despises and blames the Democrats in some of his recent interviews for his book promotion.
I think that, in addition to Biden announcing his VP pick, he needs to announce who he will choose for his cabinet.
Thank you for taking the time to share your thoughts. Definitely food for thought.
For the cult, the trumpers simply say the whole story is a hoax by people trying the undermine the Great Leader. I hesitate to ask my pro-trump relatives if they are still being suckered.
Heather: The key report here is from the New York Times: "The intelligence finding was briefed to President Trump, and the White House’s National Security Council discussed the problem at an interagency meeting in late March, the officials said. Officials developed a menu of potential options — starting with making a diplomatic complaint to Moscow and a demand that it stop, along with an escalating series of sanctions and other possible responses, but the White House has yet to authorize any step, the officials said."
Trump, Pence and Meadows have denied being briefed on this. If so, who was this options paper for? Obviously, it had to be for the President. Who saw it? I think Congress needs to ask National Security Adviser O'Brien this question under oath.
And news just broke that the Americans on the ground knew about this in January!
"UK officials are also confirming the report. Trump and Pence were briefed in late March, and Trump waited 3 months to brief Boris Johnson. Trump can't claim he didn't know when he briefed Boris Johnson." - https://www.newsandguts.com/nyt-it-strains-credulity-to-believe-trump-didnt-know-of-russian-plot
Just . . . . WOW!!
Holy shinola.
Comrade 45 and his toadies are clearly lying their heads off. They were briefed. They knew. They thought the story had been successfully killed and buried. Now that it's exploded into view, they know it's so bad that the only way out is to successfully make the claim that the IC did not brief the US Director of National Intelligence, the President of the United States, the Vice President of the United States, or anyone else in the cabinet about this. That does not wash, and it will not hold water. Expect these claims to crumble as they are examined. This is a situation that can only get worse for them over time. Ironically, that's the thing they never see coming. They think everything like this is easily buried and forgotten, but every time they do it, the whole mess blows up in their faces like an infected boil. It's like that old definition of insanity.
We live in a country where facts are skewed to convince people who won’t be informed. I am in a state (Florida) where Trump’s “mini-me” Governor DeSantis tells everyone the deadly spike is due to the dump of data from increased testing. Not true. But what really scares me is the fact that the Republican ideology has gotten more severe with each Republican administration. Once again, we are governed by ideology. Even if we get a New Democratic administration next, you know the Republicans will do their best to undermine it as they have done so many times before. I just finished reading HCR’s book “To Make Men Free, the History of the Republican Party”. Here’s my suggestion for today. Re-release this book in paperback so it is more available. While we can’t get everyone to read it, it would be a start.
Skewed facts are opinions about facts which generally turn out to be lies, because the obdurate facts without the lies aren't nearly as pretty.
I don't know how many more times I can say "UNBELIEVABLE"
Thank you Heather. Another story supporting Russian bounties - https://twitter.com/LynzforCongress/status/1276887486355079168?s=20
And meanwhile at least one person is dead after a man opened fire with a semi-automatic rifle on peaceful protesters in Jefferson Square Park in Louisville, Kentucky.
In the time of the Orange Beast, it appears the second amendment trumps the first, at least as far as the party of trump is concerned.
(New York Times, Washington Post, The Sydney Morning Herald …)
‘Our ability to help one another is what will make our victory over this disease endure. Because what you have done and what we will do until this disease is defeated is to come together as a family. Do what we do best. Lift each other up.’ – These are lines near the end of a biopic on FDR as he speaks to fellow patients at Warms Springs. It resonated with me. Isn’t it the type of message we should be able to expect from a President of the United States, particularly at a time like this? Not he resentful, spiteful Twitter trash we’re fed on a daily, if not hourly, basis. I am ashamed of my country now – and while I may understand how we got here , I will never fully accept why.
To me this shows the importance of the daily briefing and the integrity of the president. Did the president dismiss the briefing that week? Trump is a threat to the national security.
I am 110% confident that this information made it way up the chain of the IC all the way to the DNI and that the President and Vice President were both briefed. Russia paying bounties to third parties to kill American troops overseas is a Very Big Deal.