579 Comments

Pro life is putting into place anti automatic weapons laws. How can we defend unborn children when we watch young children die in schools where they should feel protected and educated.

Women and their health care providers need to make the ultimate decisions on whether a fetus should be brought into this world. It is a more nuanced decision for a woman and the federal and/or state governments do not need to be involved.

The Federal and state governments should be involved with protecting the children the have already been born.

Let’s provide these children with quality healthcare and education and freedom from fear of being gunned down in their schools.

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Not ‘pro-life’. More like anti-choice. If these people were truly ‘pro-life’ as they claim, then they wouldn’t support the death penalty, they would support universal health care, free nutritional support and quality education for all, help with the basics of living, like housing and utilities.

Nah. They aren’t pro-life. They’re anti-choice. Or at least letting women makes their own choices.

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Power over women, no mention is made of the male in the picture, ever

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💯 If they really wanted to reduce the number of abortions over the decades since Roe v Wade, they could have put their energy toward comprehensive sex education and easily accessible and cost effective birth control. But no, that was never actually the goal.

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Exactly. Their energy was toward control and rule. Sort of tells the tale, doesn't it.

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Yes. It's amazing what fear and shame can push people to try to prohibit. Fear of the power of women to be in charge of their own lives, and shame over the basic function of sexuality, and that, surprise, surprise, women are sexual beings.

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The power to rule over others is the most powerful driver of behavior, especially for evangelicals and cults. Never heard “There but for the grace of God, go I.”

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Those who have no uteruses should have no power to decide anything about women. They should focus on why no one will want children anymore only to be birthing targets for their of weapons s of mass destruction at school supported by the fricking NRA supporting republicans politicians with loaded guns and bank accounts.

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And, I might add, instead of allowing men to mess with our ovaries, perhaps it is time to mess with the XY population and their gonads. Bet they would get out of our ovaries pretty quickly if we created laws to reduce their testosterone production which would reduce war, rape, incest, priests and their perversions and obsessive competitiveness in domination over others by any means possible. Like a SCOTUS banning a the national woman's right to choose what happens to her own body—they desire to keep woman contained, subservient, requiring money FROM THE GOVERNMENT FOR FOOD AND BARE MINIMUM SUBSISTANCE, and kept somewhere, barefoot and pregnant in the kitchen and dependent upon them. F that! (Ah! Do I have to pay a swear quarter if I only wrote one letter and just thought the rest of the swear in my head? What are the rules? If the former guy can declassify documents in his head, then I think I can almost swear and not have to pay up to the jar? No?

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I forgot to add pregnancy to the second sentence above. Hoping it was obvious...

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Exactly so. Control of women. It never was "about the babies".

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It’s too late to indoctrinate people who are already here and used to living in an almost democracy.

They need millions of fresh new babies to indoctrinate for fighting their wars, for having more babies, and dozens of other uses. Uses that are highly profitable. They need sacrificial bodies.

It was not very long ago that speculation like this would sound completely aberrated and crazy. Is what I’ve said a conspiracy theory, an extrapolation, or a deduction?

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Here's another aberrant and crazy theory:

Corporations want cheap labor and are fine with non-documented foreign workers. Republicans want to please their corporate sponsors but don't want an influx of people from south of the border that would offend their white nationalist base. Solution? Grow your own labor force by banning abortions.

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Of course. But then how do they control making sure the babies are white?

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Deduction, I think.

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That’s wha I thought too.

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They are pro doing anything to stir up the base, so they can stay in power and garner lots of cash.

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I think it’s much worse than that.

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I refuse to call this pro life. It is forced birth and reduces pregnant people to a state controlled form of slavery. Our bodies are no longer our own. Doctors can no longer provide life saving care to someone experiencing a miscarriage without risking their license. Extremists actually want to prosecute anyone who aids a person in leaving the state for an abortion. Sounds like a modern day “Fugitive Slave Act” to me.

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The right wing wants power and it is our job to make certain they lose it. I understand that there are a lot of very articulate women in Florida who are standing up and speaking out against DeSantis and the anti abortion tribe.

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Well said! Thank you.

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Do you think like they’ll do what they do with cows to women? They take their male babies away early so they can hook the mother up to a machine and steal the baby’s milk. After all, the fact seems to be that outlawing abortion turns young women into livestock.

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There's a novel about exactly that. Haven't had my coffee yet, and can't remember the author. Which is dumb because it comes up a lot these days, and the author is famous. Really need coffee....

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You’re preaching to the choir.

The question is: How do you (we) get these points across to the gullible GOP voters who have bought into the Right Wing Extremist’ Propaganda!? As well as the Christian Extremists’ Propaganda!?

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What does it tell us about our political voice today if a majority of Americans support a woman's right to choose, sensible gun laws, and LGBTQ+ rights, and yet current GOP representatives and candidate GOPs are in lock-step with the minority voices on all of these issues? And, who then is responsible for fanning the flames on these issues and for what purpose? Who benefits most from dividing and distracting Americans on these key issues?

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Follow the money. These fights among the people distract so we take our eyes off the biggest crooks in history, the ultra rich and powerful who have accumulated most of the wealth in this country while the majority workers who built the country and corporations struggle daily to make ends meet.

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It tells us that the system has been tampered with.

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We are experiencing the fruits of a long game that started with the Powell Memo in 1971 and put into action in a very real way under Reagan in the 80s and the following demonization of liberals and Democrats by the likes of Newt Gingrich, Rush Limbaugh, Reagan, Atwater, The Tea Party, the "Freedom" Caucus, etc., etc. This did not happen overnight and we cannot make it stop overnight. I remember watching this all happen in my teens and twenties and knew that it was going to be a serious problem. I witnessed many people exposing it for what it was, but so many people fell for it. The Greed is Good era really disassembled a lot of the strength of the working people of the US, using the destruction of labor unions, which served not only labor interests but social and political interests, as their main focus. Then they replaced solidarity with paranoid division and grievance politics, substituting the issues that are matters of life and death, such as food, healthcare, housing, etc., with the culture wars. It's interesting to note that since the early 70s, the prices of everything we really need have gone through the roof while the things we considered luxuries back then have become insanely cheap.

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Don't forget gutting the educational system to ensure a less well educated populace. They're easier to indoctrinate.

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So true. In conjunction with saturating our schools with revisionism and misleading religious propaganda.

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Trump and the billionaires. Very simple. Have you done the math on trying to live on $15 an hour salaries with no medical care and no paid vacations? Go from there, putting yourself in serf’s shoes and you’ll understand what Republicans in power are trying to achieve. (Those who aren’t are mostly silent.)

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I worked like that the second half of my career as a real public servant, an adjunct professor at several community colleges. I have B.A. and M.S. degrees and a California Teaching Credential. Adjuncts in California are hourly contract employees who are not given medical benefits. If an adjunct professor teaches a three hour class, they are paid for three hours. This does not include prep, grading, student conferences, both in person and by email, and the hours of administrative duties an adjunct's schedule demands. When AB 705 was passed, community colleges eliminated entire departments of English and math professors like me who taught the developmental classes. They replaced us with peer tutors, students attending community colleges who performed well in their English and math classes. They had high school diplomas. These students were "taught" in a weekend seminar what professors like me had learned while working to earn advanced degrees and after 20+ years in classrooms. So, I understand very well these shoes you reference here.

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Well said. I watched this happen over 40+ in my public service job (on staff) at a CA State Univ. I would counsel graduating student loan borrowers (“exit” counseling) about how to best navigate their repayment years & some students would express a desire to teach at the college level. As I watched the change from the tenure track & “assistant” professors level to “lecturer” or “adjunct” or “temp”, I would advise them to research this & point them toward the Bureau of Labor Statistics Occupational Outlook (Handbook…initially in print, but available online for years). This especially for those who planned to get an advanced degree (and likely more borrowing) to follow this path. IMHO a lot of this came as a result of the lessening of adequate public funding/support of higher ed….saw this happen when Reagan became CA governor.

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Yet another Reagan “gift.” And it’s part of why we’re in the mess we’re in. The importance of public education in a democracy cannot be overestimated. As a member of the AAUP since the 1960’s, I have been horrified to see the treatment of graduate students.

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In fact, most universities and colleges have turned over teaching the foundation courses to adjuncts, instead of full time faculty, because they're cheaper. I know, having been an adjunct for 20 years.

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Likewise, at community colleges, foundational courses (math/English) have been turned over to students (peer tutors) who work in the writing and math centers at $12 an hour to replace adjuncts because that is cheaper.

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As I noted above, this did not happen overnight. This is the true Reagan trickle down.

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I think Reagan’s trickle down meant to pee on people from above.

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So true.

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Exactly, George: How DO we get these points across to the gullible GOP voters? Perhaps if we speak the same “language” as the Evangelicals do it might clarify things for them. For example, when talking about Fossil Fuels vs Renewable Energy, we can say: God created WOGS! Yes, God created The Wind. God created Oil. God created Gas. And God created The Sun. The WOGS! And God provided Humanity with the Know-How to use His Gifts to make life better on His Earth.

Let’s honor God’s Gifts to Humanity by Celebrating all that the WOGS can do for us - to keep us warm and cool and to feed and clothe us, to keep us safe and protected, to educate us and entertain us and to help us communicate and celebrate LIFE — all in God’s Loving Embrace … to make life pleasant and fruitful for ALL of God’s Children.

WOGS can COEXIST if you TRULY believe in GOD!!

And, BTW, let’s quit pollutin’ God’s Water and Air!!

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Just FYI, "WOGS" is a loaded acronym. It's got quite an unpleasant history as a derogatory term.

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I’d never heard the term…learn something new everyday! My take on his acronym is W=wind, O=oil, G=gas, S=sun…..but I get your point.

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Significant percentage of Republican women support pro reproductive health; recent polling show that conservative women 35-44 are worried about the health opportunities of their daughters and oppose anti-choice laws in states and oppose nationwide bans of abortion! Thus the issue will be resolved by massive registrations of younger voters and women as well as massive turnout at the polls!

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Hopefully they will not hold their nose and vote for an anti-choice candidate just because they have an “R” next to their name….time & next election will tell.

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It is all a matter of percentages; currently about 26% of Rs cannot abide T but that only will grow as he is indicted in GA and for Jan6 (and possibly even convicted before the election)! 26% is an enormous departure in and of itself so if that grows to 35% then T would lose by 20 Million votes and his allies will lose massively in races for the Senate and the House. And if he loses the primary election, he will keep running as an Indy or will create his own MAGA Party— good luck with that, you Idiot!

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I’m not sure we can although as more cases of what actually happens to women and girls without access to abortion comes out into the open, maybe some of the true believers will turn. Meanwhile, we have a lot of highly motivated and smart leaders on the pro-choice side. Let’s work together and join forces.

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The opponents of Roe are anti-reproductive health and anti-free choice! Referring to them as “pro life” or as “pro life people” adopts their erroneous messaging. They are now concentrating on electing Republicans who are pledged to enact a nationwide ban on abortions and a new President who will sign it into law. That would be a disaster for abused young girls and women in distress as well as our nation writ large. The answer to this pressing national debate is to focus on voter registration and voter turnout for the next 17 months! All of us must participate in this crucially important endeavor either financially or by focusing on the turnout of young voters you know. The horrific error of Dobbs must be addressed by our individual and collective efforts. Please go to the website of this group of brilliant Harvard students and help them as they are an effective organization committed to achieving nonpartisan voter registration where it counts the most: www.turnup.us/

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This speaks to how often the right wing nuts define the language to be used, and then the media follows along. We need to resist using their language and use our own. Not pro-life but anti woman, or anti-freedom of choice. Not illegal aliens, but refugees, or undocumented persons. Not family values, but valued families.

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First two sentences says it all about their hypocrisy! But the word ‘hypocrisy ‘ is as worn out as pebble on a beach!

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They are immune to it. People that have no shame really don't care if they are being hypocritical or inconsistent. It's horrible.

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“Pro life is putting into place anti automatic weapons laws.”

Where are you seeing this?

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It would be nice to see a direct attribution for this claim, but I suspect that the more accurate answer is that there is likely a large overlap between the evangelical/political Christian anti-choice crew and the 2nd Amendment cowards. (I call the latter "cowards" because I can't think of any reason to want to carry a gun in civilian life except that the person is so fearful and cowardly that they want to be able to kill anything they can see.)

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I imagine having guns allows a lot of them to believe they are dangerous. Meaning, it’s not enough to feel protected. Think Christopher Moltisanti from The Sopranos.

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This is brief and brilliant. When will the NRA dog catch the car?

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MLC wrote: "Pro life is putting into place anti automatic weapons laws. How can we defend unborn children when we watch young children die in schools where they should feel protected and educated."

Sadly, almost nowhere. Oregon tried to enact some gun control legislation and it has been held up by a lone judge in Eastern Oregon.

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This sentence is not well crafted. The intention of the author becomes clearer if you read the entire post, but if you simply add True at the beginning: "True pro-life would"

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that's because the government is breeding targets. Children!!! Wont' get rid of their guns, and they need more living beings to destroy with them.

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Zelia-pro fetus does not protect that unborn child when he:she is born to the reality of mass gun violence in the US.

Let’s take care of our “born” children. We put more energy into the abortion debates than we do around getting automatic weapons off the streets. No civilian needs the privilege to purchase an military grade weapon ---period.

Keep your hand guns and hunting rifles. We need for our school age children to not feel afraid of being in school.

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And having their bodies ripped to shreds, so that DNA is needed to identify them. How insane are we…

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Ripped to shreds by the bullettò from automatic weapons!

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High velocity ammunition specifically designed to "tumble" on impact & shred human organs.

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They are not "children" until after they're born. Before birth - blastula, embryo, fetus.

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Agreed. And the party of death continues to stir the pot by worrying about drag queen story hours, making life miserable for transgendered children and their parents, and increasing the likelihood of death in many miscarriage and other pregnancy problems. Here in Oregon voters passed a gun control law which is being held up by an eastern Oregon judge. The Rs walked out of the legislature until the Ds agreed to water down a gun control law. And I see lots of sanctimonious people, often men, telling us why we should have laws against abortion and transgender medical care. But hey, more guns are better and the daily rampages go on. And a real capper, during the horrible Texas heat wave, that tool Abbott signed a law that workers did not need regular water breaks. OK, put him outside for a good while, no shade and no water.

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It does appear that there is no bottom for them. They really don't see those they target as human beings. Most humans are born with the capacity for empathy- so what happens that so many of us never develop it and instead become sociopaths?

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Looks like they go into politics. Maybe if we can get the money out of it, by some miracle, these sociopathic critters won't find politics so attractive.

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Those that do are often true believers and are certainly full of fear and uncertainly beneath all the bravado. Also some people just like to torment others because they are truly sick and enjoy this sort of thing.

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Michele, you've come up with the perfect sentence for Abbott: "Put him outside for a good while, no shade and no water." What a sadist.

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He is truly awful. I had to look him his background as that is a family name for me.

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Not pro-life. Just pro-birth. Once the kid is born, screw him/her.

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You beat me to it. They care not a whit about a child; their entire intent is to control women.

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Yes. Subjugation of those uppity women.

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Yes. Please read my posting about men and sex.

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For me, the preferred term is pro-forced birth. It puts the focus back on the women whose rights to control her body have been compromised.

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Yes. And it’s truer.

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Bret, I’d go one step further. It’s not just pro-birth, it’s pro-forced labor. And there’s another name for that.

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I agree. As a young (naive) man I scoffed at notions like this. But there is simply too much evidence staring me in the face to disagree with you now.

Sh*t like this: The Origin of Student Debt: Reagan Adviser Warned Free College Would Create a Dangerous “Educated Proletariat” In 1970, Roger Freeman, who also worked for Nixon, revealed the right's motivation for coming decades of attacks on higher education.

https://theintercept.com/2022/08/25/student-loans-debt-reagan/#:~:text=The%20Origin%20of%20Student%20Debt%3A%20Reagan%20Adviser%20Warned%20Free%20College,of%20attacks%20on%20higher%20education.

Not a great link. Kind of a firewall. But the 2nd paragraph sums it up well. And chillingly.

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A well educated populace is much harder to control and manipulate.

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Jun 26, 2023·edited Jun 26, 2023

True that. Freeman's main point.

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Well, the kid's screwed either way.

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True that. sadly.

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Love the fetus, hate the child.

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These thoughts just come whether I like it or not.

Hardly. Why would they waste a future income comparable in scope to drugs and guns? To them children can be like opium plants, exploitable for huge profits. They would be slaves most likely. Worker bees, sex workers, organ donors for spare parts. If I can think it it’s probably being done somewhere even now.

The mothers having been forced to have a child but who have no means to care for that child may have to give her to social services. Maybe the baby will be taken away from the mother by force for not having the wherewithal to raise her. So yes, many children will become slaves in some form. A slave, and a future voter to be indoctrinated (if voting is still a thing).The ones with high intelligence will be sent to a “school” of higher learning with more extensive indoctrination and training, perhaps to be a slave master of some sort.

Why, on a planet whose main problem is overpopulation, do these people want to increase the birth rate? Why?

Methodically reducing the birth rate is absolutely necessary as part of the drive to reverse our obsolescence and imminent demise.

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A dystopian view, but as you say, it’s probably already happening somewhere. Quite a number of years ago I read that in some countries (don’t recall which) persons living in poverty would sell some of their organs (like a kidney) to make money….of course there is a limit to what you can sell w/o perishing, but still it shocked me (far different from being a donor match and voluntarily offering). Working conditions & worker treatment in parts of the world (probably even in the USA) are bordering on slavery with loss of freedom of movement, low pay and dire working conditions…and don’t get m started about the children burrowing into holes in the ground to mine for minerals needed in high-tech components—they gain the least for the highest risk. It saddens me greatly to see the inhumanity our fellow beings are willing to wield (not to mention what we do to other species and the ecosphere).

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It looks like we must accept that our species can and will resort to atrocities like these when threatened. What can possibly address this but equal economic opportunity and wages designed to support the wage earner’s family. And to work in newly imagined industries designed to make the planet whole again.

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As well as access to free or affordable education.

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Alas, I fear far too many do not want to be aware of what our planet is facing, nor want to do the necessary work/sacrifice to improve/remedy the crisis. Personally I don’t think humankind can “technology” our way out of this….looking for the magic pill that will save us.

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They need soldiers!

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They are also more probirth of White babies, as many of them fear that Whites will be replaced by "those" people.

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Yes, and soldiers too.

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And our government, by forcing more children into our screwed up society is now breeding children as targets for the mass shooters using their most loved AR-15 style weapons.......

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But hey, they are the Pro-Life party, right? Most people don't change until they are in pain. So let's inflict major pain on the trumpers in the form of lost elections. Lots and lots of them.

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MLC - "Pro life is putting into place anti automatic weapons laws. How can we defend unborn children when we watch young children die in schools where they should feel protected and educated."

"𝘞𝘦𝘭𝘭, 𝘪𝘧 𝘺𝘰𝘶 𝘳𝘦𝘢𝘭𝘭𝘺 𝘸𝘢𝘯𝘵 𝘵𝘰 𝘱𝘳𝘰𝘵𝘦𝘤𝘵 𝘵𝘩𝘦 𝘬𝘪𝘥𝘴... "

https://www.tiktok.com/@lgbtqportland/video/7237739968196562219?lang=en

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Wanda nails it….mic drop.

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Aint that the truth! The "focusing on the wrong s**t seems to be a Repubs whole personality these days.

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Pro-pregnancy. They just want women pregnant. I don’t think they actually give a damn about the glob of cells in her uterus

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Pro choice or pro reproductive health; please do not even repeat the erroneous messaging of “pro life”!

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I thought today was your day off. Take care of the caregiver, they say - and you take such care of us. Please accept a collective, We love you, Professor!

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Agreed!!!! Aloha to you!

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We all love the Professor but, HCR's 6/24 LFAA was needed more today than ever. HCR's 1st paragraph is Spot on -- one of her best ever.

Putin Regime Next 48 Hours: Former Russian Federation US Ambassador ROBERT McFALL cotinued his experienced Putin analysis this am on Jonathan Capeheart's msnbc Sunday Show. Robert's McFall's two (2) key points to are the following: (1) Can the alleged dismissal of Russia.s 2 top Ukranian War Generals be confirmed? If so, that development means "Putin's rapid capitulation". (2) Will PRIGHOZIN's social media voice from the 'Telegraph' perch & reposts continue?

CAUTION: Developments remain unsettled.

Academician SARAH KENZIDOR also doing sharp analyses, transnational analysis too.

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I can’t help but wonder if this whole thing was a feint by Russia. Positioning Wagner and Nukes in Belarus while the Ukrainian front is to the south??? Pardons? Dropped coups? After trips to Moscow by Lukashenko and Wagner leader?

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All good questions Patricia. 2 days ago I posted the one important fact, the Wagner Group forces (20,000?) have departed Ukraine or."retreated" from Uktaine, if you will. I understand WAPO has an article up this am regrding US intelligence on the Wagner Group over Spring 2023. I have not read it yet, paywall.

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gifted https://wapo.st/3PpElSg

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Thx! I need to scrutinize the article; but, clear that US had knowledge of Wagner "rebellion" in mid-June.

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Tell me exactly which article you mean, and I will gift it.

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Thanks for posting this. An interesting read, the most interesting are the posts from ISW for those two days.

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Community: ISW = Institute for Study of War. Has history, maps & Updates. 👌

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I think she sometimes takes Sunday night off - but then again, did you ever try to stop a train roaring down a track? Sometimes the only relief for an active mind is through one's fingertips onto a keyboard.

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Excellent idea. ❤️❤️❤️

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When I talk to pro-life people, I ask them if they want the state or federal government requiring them to donate blood or bone marrow to save lives. So far, every one of them have said adamantly “NO!” I ask them if their answer is because doing so might affect their health a little or be painful. They have answered yes. I then ask why a woman should be told by the state government that she has to put her health at risk to save the life of the unborn baby. I point out that it is far safer to donate blood or bone marrow than to be pregnant or give birth.

I think that we need to equate donating blood, bone marrow, or part of a liver to save a life with being pregnant. Based on answers from pro-life persons, it’s not about everyone putting their health at risk to save lives. It’s only about women making the sacrifices.

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Exactly, Mary. In addition to the affect to health, is the reduction, or erasure, of life choices for those who are already income insecure and the increased nutritional and medical requirements and expenses. This country has income-capped food aid programs and no universal healthcare. To command a woman to bring a baby to term, a proposition that requires myriad healthcare appointments and increased nutritional requirements, among other things, while providing no medical care or assurance of food security, is nonsense.

Fact is, if no man need ask the government for Viagra or a vasectomy, no woman should need its permission for any of her reproductive healthcare decisions either. Period.

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C. Jacobs, and no woman should have to get her husband’s permission or have had children to get her tubes tied. No hospital that accepts federal Medicare or Medicaid money should be able to refuse to do a tubal ligation; most, if not all, Catholic hospitals refuse to do tubal ligations or vasectomies.

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There you go...ideology vs science. The GOP does little little to support the already born. I also agree this is a pro-choice matter, not a pro-life or antiabortion issue. It would behoove the discussion to call it pro-choice...it is less inflammatory and keeps it focused on the more accurate issue. Every individual should be able able to CHOOSE their own path.

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I totally agree.Choose choice. Abortion is NOT a legislative issue and never ever should have been made into one. It is a personal decision between a woman and her doctor (and her partner in some cases) and beyond that it is no one else's business. Period.

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The Rs do little to support the alreadyborn, the environment, voting rights, common sense, or, thanks to a blowhard from Alabama, the military and national security (cf. tfg). Thanks a lot for putting everybody at risk 24-7...

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Plus . . . clean energy, Medicare, social security, the Constitution,

"We, the People"

ethics, logic (cf. McConnell's court packing after shutting down Obama's nominee because it was "to close to the election!") Idiot.

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Sorry, "Too close to theelection." Idiots.

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I had a tubal at age 26, 45 years ago. Roe had been passed but even then I always thought it might be overturned. Through the grapevine I heard about a gynecologist who would do a laparoscopic check for endometriosis and “while he was in there” do a tubal (the real reason for the visit). When I was given the paperwork, it stated “this multiparous young woman...” Clearly he had to lie - and I will always be grateful he did. But it should never have been necessary.

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I have a friend (the middle child of my best and longest LCSO friend) who knew from her teens that she would be an awful mother (some diagnosable personality disorders to include depression and anxiety) and in no way ever wanted to bring a child into the world. She was finally able to get a tubal ligation in her early 30's, spending the better part of 15 years in horrible "birth control" complications regardless of what product she used. She was always told "well, what if you change your mind and meet the right man to have kids with" and was never listened to when she said "I will be a horrible mother. Do you want kids to have a horrible mother?"

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Jun 25, 2023·edited Jun 25, 2023

Marge, you’re right—it should be your choice.

I still would like legislation to require any hospital that accepts Medicare or Medicaid payments to be willing to do a hysterectomy, tubal ligation or vasectomy on anyone who requests it.

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Contraception will be next. DeSantis ( encouraged by the Catholic Conference) vetoed $$ two years in a row (21,22)to provide long-term, reversible hormonal contraception for low-income women. It appears $$ wasn’t even included in 23 budget.

Also, DeSantis signed dangerous law that allows medical professionals, and insurance companies, to decline care ” based on their moral, ethical, or religious beliefs”.

“Justice” Clarence Thomas believes we “should reconsider” rulings codifying rights to contraception.

DeSantis avoids talking about abortion. We all must keep talking about abortion…and contraception!

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I, and others, always said that abortion was the camel sticking its nose under the tent. An OBGYN I know predicted that the next step would be IUD’s because some Catholic clergy believe that they are a type of abortion. She predicted that the next step would be outlawing long term contraception Then contraception for unmarried women.

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“abortion was the camel sticking its nose under the tent”.⬅️ Love this.May have to use.🐪⛺️

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I know. Baby # 3 came 2 years after my Catholic hospital delivery of Baby # 2. Then, 4 years after Baby #3 delivery with tubal ligation, along came Baby #4. God's Will they would say. All four are wonder-full! But, to be sure, had a hysterectomy.

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Marge, Ally and MaryPat, the stories you've shared of yourselves and your friends are harrowing. They are also a window into why government shouldn't be in the room between any patient, of any sex, and their doctor.

I'm male, will never know what it is to menstruate, conceive or give birth. I'm also not a doctor. Because of ALL of the above, I'm hereby unqualified to steer or make any decisions regarding any woman's healthcare. Only those whose experience it is and/or those MEDICALLY trained to diagnose, treat and care for those concerns should have a say. Those decisions should be made on an individual case basis, customized for the concerns of the patient. That's it. Idk why this is so hard for some other men (and Coney-Barrett's) to understand.

I recently saw a photo of a women's abortion protest. One of the protest signs said, "Republicans idea of government is so small, it fits inside my uterus." The nation's women shouldn't have their choices restricted by judicial decisions based on religious views that many of them don't practice. Current SCOTUS reactionaries make decisions thinking their view will always be the majority. Would these same justices celebrate an ultra-conservative majority Muslim court that denied their wives from bikinis on the beach, or outlawed pork dishes of any sort nationwide? No. They wouldn't. Why? Because they don't practice and don't want to adhere to Islamic tenets.

Let those with convictions to observe religious guidance to refuse abortion do so. Let those without those convictions do otherwise. It's so simple that doing otherwise is mindbogglingly stupid.

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Makes you wonder if they did the tubal ligation correctly (removing a piece of the tube).

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Got an infection at the internal site, doctor ignored my complaint of fever and monthly pain and fluid ("Douche"), which, suggested, duh, patency. Essentially out of that cyst I grew a new tube. And my daughter after 3 boys was and is a beautiful miracle!

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C. Jacobs and Mary Hardt- totally agree. Can you imagine the howling chorus of outrage if vasectomies were required at age 15 and reversed only for procreation?

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I think we also need to be louder, clearer, and possibly more graphic in describing the real health risks pregnancy and childbirth entail. I’ve had four pregnancies and I couldn’t give you the answers to that one. Forcing pregnancy on women is cruel and unusual punishment. It’s wrong.

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The sad truth is that babies born into poverty tend to have shorter life spans, as do their mothers.

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Completely true but these blowhards with a fetish for forcing women to make babies don't care at all. As others mentioned, their policies would be vastly different if they actually cared about life.

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Actually, I think it is about women being punished for wing sexually active. If the anti-abortion ERs really cared about the life of the fetus, they would provide real care for the baby and assistance to the mom.

Hypocrites all.

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Jun 25, 2023·edited Jun 25, 2023

Sadly true, Sky 777. Or as Barney Frank so succinctly said years ago--"They believe that life begins at conception and ends at birth"

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Agreed, Sky. I call them pro-birth, not pro-life. I got to see lots and lots of women raising children in poverty, in dangerous situations, with abusive and criminal sperm donors who never provided for the children, assaulted both mother and child, or by themselves with no support from either sperm donor or the parents who viewed the mother as "unworthy" for having gotten pregnant.

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Maybe we should stop calling a zygote a baby, and wait until viability to use that term.

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Many biological-medical matters AFTER the zygote attaches to the uterine wall as well --- or even detaches. Regardless, "Zygote" is accurate.

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Jeri, I use the term baby to reflect the word used in their beginning sentences. Calling it a zygote just creates another point of contention.

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Zygote is true in more cases than not, I would say. Calling a zygote a baby is just adding emotional baggage.

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Yes. Blastula, embryo or fetus - before birth. A baby once born.

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Great analogy, Mary--how did your listener react to your logic?

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Some said “all lives are precious!” to which I replied that I’m glad that they’re going to get bone marrow type tested so that they can save a life. I suggest that they contact their legislators to get them to pass a law to get everyone bone marrow tested so that the lives of cancer patients that need transplants can be saved. They always say that they don’t want “the government “ telling them that they have to donate bone marrow, so I ask how is that different from “the government “ telling their daughter that she has to put her life at risk to birth her rapist’s baby. Some have said “I never thought about it that way”.

A few just huffed “it’s not the same!” And I asked if that means that they value an unborn baby’s life more than a cancer patient’s life.

In all cases, they’ve looked like they are considering the inequality.

My final say is to ask them if going to heaven is the best thing that can happen to them. I then ask if they’d rather live with parents who openly blame them for their lost dreams or go straight to heaven. No answer.

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I like that approach, Mary. I have had this conversation with some anti-abortion folks, including one with a former professional associate (he was a sergeant with another agency, but we worked a lot of graveyard shifts together). I asked him "how can the sperm of a rapist be more important than the life of his victim?" He really didn't have an answer for that.

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👍👍👍👍👍👍Awesome!

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Kudos for your patience and determination! Did these conversations change your relationship with these people?

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No, but they were casual acquaintances that chose to share their beliefs with me.

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It's so encouraging that they were willing to share their beliefs with you and to actually listen to your questions. How cool it would. be to set up a series of small (6-8 people), moderated conversations about this topic.

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I applaud you for doing this. Really good discussion.

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Exactly. In fact, there has to be permission granted by the person dying to even be able to use anything from their body after death! So a corpse would have more rights than a woman, if these monsters got their way.

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Mary, does your very logical line of inquiry make any inroads in the opinions of the right-to-lifers?

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Sorry, posted my question to you before I read your replies above. I’m glad you were able to get through to some. I had a conversation about this with a friend who said “I just hate to see babies die,” and I couldn’t really come up with a response. I had already told my friend about my great grandmother who died of a knitting needle abortion done by her husband in the 1910s, and how her death had horribly affected her already living children, like my grandmother, who was essentially abandoned by her father after her mother died. I mean, a hundred years ago, my grandmother’s entire family was destroyed because they couldn’t afford another baby and the mother died. That story didn’t move my friend’s opinion on abortion. On the other hand, I don’t think my friend would stop someone else from having an abortion. She just didn’t believe in them. That’s fine. Just don’t legislate this bullshit.

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Logic never responds to emotion. Stop calling a zygote a baby. Abortion after viability is rare as hen’s teeth.

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They aren't unborn babies. They're blastulas, embryos or fetuses.

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OK - then, what was their response to your last question??

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Hugh, their responses take two forms, both great. “I never thought of it like that.” “I’ll have to ask my pastor (or preacher) about that.”

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How is it that one Senator can put a hold on all military appointments?

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Something is wrong with a system where one Senator can sabotage the well being of the nation, especially for the purpose of extortion.

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Especially when the Senator is an uneducated football coach idiot

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I can’t do stupid anymore. Nor fanatics. He’s probably still supporting The a-hole who put our defense secrets in with his underwear.

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Indeed.. it is... this is the minority protecting senate using the filibuster crap again... nothing like a constitutional republic acting like a constitutional monarchy...

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Exactly. Who is "Tommy Tuberville"? (Sounds like a cartoon in an ad for plumbing services). What authority does he have to countermand a government ruling of any kind, particularly this one?

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The cartoonishly named Tuberville is a former college football coach from Alabama who was elected to the Senate. From my minimal observations, he’s not too bright but all too right-wing.

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You got that right, Tuberville is an extremely poor excuse for a Senator, and dumb as a rock. He isn't fit to be anything as far as i am concerned.

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Tuberville defeated legally educated Democrat Doug Jones, thereby confirming my opinion that football is more important than the rule of law in some states. At least Georgians were able to ward off Bulldog Herschel Walker, who almost defeated Rafael Warnock, who has a doctorate. But the Bulldogs steadfastly refuse to visit the White House to celebrate their national collegiate championships while Biden is the POTUS.

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There is something in the water there...

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". . . the Bulldogs steadfastly refuse to visit the White House to celebrate their national collegiate championships while Biden is the POTUS."

I'm sorry, but that is NOT an entirely accurate statement. The word "steadfastly" is inappropriate here. The coaching staff and athletic directorship at UGA made an official statement that the reason for not going to the White House were enormous scheduling and logistics conflicts. Coach Kirby Smart said they would be more than honored to go to the White House at some point when it was feasible and made it very clear there was nothing at all political in their decision. The White House basically threw a date out there without consulting the university. Trying to organize something like that, more or less last minute, in a busy time for the football program, something that would involve moving upwards to 100 people to DC, security clearances, etc. etc. is not an easy task. Plus, with ongoing domestic and international events/crises, which we are all aware are creating extraordinarily busy times for this administration, finding a time amenable for the White House also present scheduling challenges. The team, a majority of which is African-American, considered it an honor to be asked. NO ONE said they wouldn't go ". . . while Biden is the POTUS." That is flat out wrong. Making such a provocative statement without any basis for it is how negative rumors propagate and spread. We are better than that. I'm the first one to run down and criticize my state when it does something stupid (it happens more than I'd wish), but I will also defend it (and, let it be said, my alma mater) when I feel it is being unjustly smeared. As I continue to say to other states, "Get YOUR house in order before you go running down other states!" Sorry to go on so much, but this touches a raw nerve in me.

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Perhaps I overstepped the evidence at hand when I said that they "steadfastly refused" to go to the White House, but something tells me that a White House invitation is not something most teams turn down twice, which is what I'd read.

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The only reason Walker lost is because he made one glaring error after another. If he had run a sane campaign, he'd be a senator.

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I honestly think he's brain damaged from all that head bashing.

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God bless and save America.

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I thought he was the blue teletubby in the cartoon my grands watch!

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And he appears to have no sense of self preservation. How can we stop this fool?

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Good description. Wondering if Tuberville is an old Alabama name?

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He was a crappy football coach that left every program worse off than when he arrived. Any success he had came from what the previous coach had left and his assistants. A POS.

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What I'm learning about Sen. Tuberville is explaining the puzzle of how Donald Trump got to be - no, I won't say it: let's just say, got into the White House. Similar career path.

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Methinks he couldn't catch a football; hence, the helmet-less head-bonks when he missed - kinda rattled the gray mush too many times.

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If you can stand it, you can learn all about Senator Tuberville here:

al.com

It's actually a pretty good regional paper with a respectably left-wing editorial department. J.D. Crowe's cartoons depicting Tuberville and his antics are just this side of slanderous, which is fine with me when it comes to ex-football coaches with a God complex and real power.

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I loved AL! I think it has lots of charm, it's very real. Plus, beside a picture of the Montana bridge collapse, it said that Prigozhin says he ordered the halt to the march on Moscow. Lots of pictures of hamburgers, and a great picture of tomatoes growing - you could almost smell that scent of furry tomato stalks. I really only looked to see pictures of T Tuberville, Esq., Sen., but I couldn't see where they were. Never mind, I enjoyed even more what I did see. It's a curious thing, but nobody has power unless we give it to them.

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Now, now, Anne-Louise...I'm sure poor little Tommy didn't choose his own name...

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And I bet, as he raced around the pitch, that he never in his wildest dreams thought he'd get to be a Senator.

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TOMMY TUPPERVILLE IS BOTTOM OF HIS CLASS... ALABAMA RACIST WHITE... FOOTBALL PLAYER GONE COACH.. ONE SON... A TRUMP MAGA MAGA MAGA DISCIPLE..

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I wonder how much money Tuberville gets from Russia. It certainly is in Russia's interest to stagnate US military careers and structure.

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It only takes one senator to block nominations in senate committees, in this case the Armed Forces Committee. Though done for reasons of illness, Feinstein’s absence stopped confirmations in the Judicial Committee.

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Ah , I see. The untouchable dignity of a Senator.

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As they prove they are idols with feet of clay

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What dignity?

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I think Anne-Louise was utilizing sarcasm here. The Senate (upper chamber) is supposed to be the "cream of the crop" (if you recall, they were originally appointed by state governors and not elected; they have some funky rules that stem from that origin story) and not the unwashed rubes elected by the people.

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That's curious -- the mere absence of a Senator will stop the work of a committee? Do you think that's a rule, or did something else leave that committee without a quorum?

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These Republican nutcases have descended so far that their entire political game plan is little more than a game of "chicken" -- "Accede to my religious convictions or I'll kill us all!" We may just have to fasten our seatbelts, pump up our air bags, and let them try.

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Seems it isn't just the players he coached that likely have damage from CTE.

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Good Evening to All,

On the bizarre Prigozhin one way trip to Minsk, something is really fishy. As some have already pointed out, the fact that he could take thousands of soldiers on a minatory march toward Moscow without being strafed to death or even attempted to be stopped, clearly shows that Prigozhin has significant support within the Russian military and in the various security services.

BTW, how is he "getting" to Belarus?! Will Aeroflot fly him? Will the FSB take him back to whatever gold plated manse he has in Moscow or St. Petersburg and watch while he packs his bags, gathers his family and makes hotel reservations?

And we would all have to be born yesterday to believe that the tyrant from central casting President of Belarus, Aleksandr Lukashenko, who is a close Putin ally and beneficiary has suddenly become the Metternich of Minsk.

I have no idea what's going on but one thing for sure is that this isn't over by a long shot. The threat to Putin's power due to the horrific and failing war in Ukraine is significant, as are certain to be Putin's countermeasures against that threat. We will see how it all plays out.

On the anniversary of the Dobbs decision, one item Heather pointed out demands further emphasis, in my humble opinion. Irrespective of how Americans feel about the right to abortion, this anniversary should have all Americans grimacing in concern that in Dobbs, the Supreme Court for the first time in our history retracted a constitutional right. The fact that such a retraction had never previously occurred (and in fact was unthinkable) is due, inter alia, to what had once been a conscious understanding that rights once recognized cannot be taken away in a free society whose governmental compact reflects a government of limited powers vis-a-vis its people. Two and a half generations of Americans, particularly American women, relied upon this right to live their lives free from governmental interference into the most intimate chambers of their being and existence. The fact that Roe's core finding withstood nearly half a century of subsequent litigation, but was all swept away by the narrowest of majorities left not only the concept of stare decisis in tatters on the marble floor, but also the fundamental trust in the capacity of the Court to render impartial justice.

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Agree that this sweet Prigozhin deal fails the smell test. I thought the axiom was that if you shoot at the king you best not miss. Prigozhin missed. And the part of the deal that says that Wagner group members who “choose” not to join the Russian army will suffer no consequences? Really? I’m not buying it. Both Putin and trump share the characteristic that no breach of absolute fealty to the king goes unpunished. We may not hear about it, but there will be consequences.

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Jun 25, 2023·edited Jun 25, 2023

"Both Putin and trump share the characteristic that no breach of absolute fealty to the king goes unpunished."

There's a lot that Putin and trump share and it's pretty biblical. Just a few years ago they stood together in front of the cameras, steeping in their perceived omnipotence, kissing each other's asses. Well....?

“Oh How the Mighty Have Fallen.” 2 Samuel 1:19,27

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I hope they continue to fall, but let’s be clear-eyed about the reality that they won’t without a fight.

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There certainly will be sequelae. But I think there are a lot of assumptions in your analysis. I was not at all surprised that Prigozhin got his troops so close to Moscow. I think that is when Putin finally realized he truly does not have the people of Russia behind him. The reason Wagner exists is because Putin and his generals were having a hard time recruiting or even drafting: men left the country or simply disappeared into the countryside. Prigozhin is an interesting man, an entrepreneur who has both ambition and a sense of moral duty (before you sneer, ask yourself what we expect of the men we send to war).

Once Prigozhin got fed up with Putin's inability to provide supplies as well, it was pretty much game up. I think Prigozhin has a better handle on Russia than Putin. That doesn't mean that things are all going to be hunky-dory. I think those negotiations had been going on for some time and Prigozhin's march pretty much backed Putin into a corner. Prigozhin is smart and he is focused. I doubt very much he was interested in taking over Putin's place, which is a pretty weak place to be right now. He does not have the kind of power he had when he was climbing the ladder, and even if he did, it won't work to accomplish what you think. If he tried, there really would be resistance.

It's going to be interesting to watch the dynamics in Russia now.

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The purge starts when something of highest value to the purported leader of the opposition is found. What would make General P stop, turn around, and go to Belarus on the thinnest of promises of immunity? His children or family or empire is in the hands of the FSB or Putin? Names are already taken. The "disappeared" will start. His followers, at best, will go to the front lines as fodder in Putin's war on the Ukrain, you think? Will we ever hear from Private P?

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Jun 26, 2023·edited Jun 26, 2023

Per your analysis, have you seen Snyder's? Point 5-10 seem to make sWar. (facsism, mobster, logic of their own creation, likely cause of withdrawal from Ukraine). I don't find any history as to why General P is a general and not subservient to actual Russian generals in the Ukraine war.

https://snyder.substack.com/p/prigozhins-march-on-moscow

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