"The FBI's search of Jeffrey Clark's home seems like a momentous turning point."
To me the FBI search of Clark's home seems like a stunt.
We have (all) known about Jeffrey Clark's willingness to take Rosen's job and do Trump's bidding since a couple of weeks after the Jan 06 insurrection from various news sources.
"The FBI's search of Jeffrey Clark's home seems like a momentous turning point."
To me the FBI search of Clark's home seems like a stunt.
We have (all) known about Jeffrey Clark's willingness to take Rosen's job and do Trump's bidding since a couple of weeks after the Jan 06 insurrection from various news sources.
But, on the very day when the Jan 06 committee details what happened between Clark and Rosen? The Justice department simultaneously decides to raid his house?
I ask: What took the Justice Department so long? Why wait until now? Why did the Justice Department not raid Clark's house a long time ago when the NY Times detailed parts of this story?
Clark has had plenty of time to clean up his phone and his icloud storage account and his hard drive. Plenty. I imagine he was pretty relaxed "standing outside in his pajama's".
A stunt. That's what the raid on Clark's house feels like.
A last question for you Michael: Why not raid Mara Lago instead?
Speaking of orchestration, was the release of the Supreme Court's decision overturning Roe v. Wade timed to draw attention away from the results of the Jan. 6 hearings? Of course the Roe decision is very important, but the results of the Jan. 6 investigation are even more important, I believe: if the insurrection goes unpunished, then abortion rights and many others could disappear. A difficult time in our history.
John Dean on NPR at noon today, Friday, said if tfg isn't indicted, then the president is (always) above the law. But Mr. Dean could see no way out of indicting Trump.
Well, end of session SCOTUS decisions generally come down around now. They include more than the usual dose of awful, true, but the committee must have had this in mind when they scheduled their hearings.
We have a very large cult of brainwashed trumpsters. They have proven to be violent and willing to kill for trump. This is a level that equals potential Nazi's who have been trained to attack. They attack our elected officials and our schoolboards. They must, very systematically, see this corruption by the POTUS and all his minions in movie style. This is the only way they MIGHT understand that their leader is a rogue criminal who lied and ab used them to his own means. Power, money, and that highest level narcissistic evil, Adoration. This is equal to Hitler. 1 million of our own people have died because trump lied about the hoax pandemic. This is going to snap brains. We have not even gotten to the "Russian Hoax" yet. And who funds Bannon, Manafort, Conway, Flynn and the early players. This is so big and so deep. Realize that Garland and his crew have the biggest, deepest job any AG has ever had in the history of our country, or maybe the world and he is very systematic. And we don't know all of it. Yet. It is All connected. Be patient and enjoy the quiet for this moment.
"This is so big and deep," Amen. But is is not a quiet moment. The SCOTUS has ruled against the constitutionality of Roe v. Wade. It is another straw about to break the backs of sane Americans.
Women's reactions to the SCOTUS ruling are not going to come off the boil in the months between now and the midterms.
A Lysistrata moment if ever there was one.
For the rest, I don't dare write what I think, what I feel about the gross party-political -- i.e. tribal -- abuse of such a delicate, intimate and intrinsically painful issue, and of women as responsible agents. That in combination with the upholding of gun worship.
In order to see, they need to look, and from what I've been reading, the only place they're looking is FOX, et al, sources which will not feed them the truth, even in baby steps.
I'm not convinced it was purely a stunt. Maybe it was the DoJ simply playing catch-up?
But it was noted last night that this 5th hearing was originally scheduled for last week, and the subject matter was announced beforehand. It was then postponed with vague explanations of technical problems.
Perhaps the DoJ asked that it be postponed to allow the serving of the subpoena BEFORE the public hearing, so Clark wouldn't feel like he should destroy evidence after hearing the evidence against him?
Jaime Raskin was specifically asked that question on MSNBC by Nicole Wallace right after Barbara McQuade suggested it, and he looked like he'd been blindsided by the question. He was not expecting it, and seemed flustered, and came up with a non-answer about all the evidence they'd been receiving and then pivoted to what they were were going to be doing in the future.
I think he deflected with his answer. Maybe even lied. I think the DoJ and the committee are working together, at least informally.
I agree. The hearing was rescheduled. The search was executed on Wednesday morning. The hearing was Thursday afternoon. The timing seemed purposeful and exquisite. I have a cousin who is a computer forensic expert. Were he to have tried to hide evidence, she would have found it. It can be done. I have a feeling that those electronics contain a treasure trove of incriminating evidence.
Unless he ditched all of his electronics and replaced them recently with new (which alone would be a major red flag), anything he may have thought he deleted isn't really deleted. As for the Cloud, I expect there are ways for forensic computer experts to access and download. Things live forever in the tech universe no matter how much you may try to hide something. I can't imagine Clark and others are tech-savvy enough to understand this.
Yeah John - I think it went down something like you describe. The DOJ timing and the select committee timing seem to be intersecting at certain aspects of the investigation. It's very intriguing. I believe a whole lot of Republicans are (or should be) soiling their diapers.
I hope most people will understand that yesterday's hearing was postponed at the DOJs request so as to not interfere with their investigation. They do just that with leading newspapers and broadcasters. Nothing new there. It can't be overlooked that it is known that the DOJ asked for evidence right around the same time. That ask was probably incorrect. They didn't ask for evidence they asked that they not show their investigation until the paperwork for the search was signed.
ItтАЩs delicate handling such stunning and far reaching criminality considering that the kingpin was a POTUS who received so many votes to get re-elected and still has a large group of supporters in Congress and throughout our country and the world willing to look the other way as long as he keeps supporting their views on guns, immigration, abortion, etc. AG Garland would be an utter fool if he were not to handle this case with all due care and consideration possible including political optics . He is taking the fight to a large domestic enemy willing to do anything to stay in power. We had a Civil War already тАж he must make a case that is so strong the independents will have no choice to acknowledge the truth. As for the large group of Americans who are supposed true believers willfully ignoring the facts ? Ultimately, they will most likely continue to remain among us as family members and neighbors unwilling to change their minds until they decide for themselves to do soтАж. or they donтАЩt.
"Delicate" it is. To say the least. One of the things that shakes me the most is the willingness of Republican officials to, if the choice presents itself, vote for Trump again. That wingnut from Arizona who testified Tuesday - Rusty Bowers - said exactly that. That Trump and his policies prior to Covid were great for the country. A guy who looks to his god for action, and wants everyone to know it. This after just drawing and quartering Trump with his testimony. We have a large swath of the country who abhor progressive policy so much that they would see the most dangerous and incompetent person to ever occupy the White House re-installed!!!!!! To literally make a deal with the devil. Think on that. How can progressive policy be hated to that extent? Is it abortion? Gun control? Is it civil rights? Climate change mitigation? LGQBT policy? Evolution? All of the above? What is it? Something is making them resort to seriously sordid acts of desperation to stop us.
I think the "something making them resort to seriously sordid acts of desperation" is POWER. This march to gain control for the minority in America has been carefully planned for decades by rich Republican donors and organizations like the Federalist Society. They saw that white males would be in the minority in the foreseeable future and have worked for decades to build up and radicalize their base using made up issues like abortion rights (which had not been a Republican issue before) and white male grievance, while also carefully inserting Republicans into state legislatures and onto various courts across the country. The ultimate result was their ability to shove radical right wing lawyers onto the Supreme Court until they had a majority AND to impress their Republican politicians that if they wanted white Republican males and right-wing rich corporations to exert maximum control over America, they had to do whatever it took to gain and hold power. So the overwhelming motivator for the politicians is not hate, it's power. It's not virtuous religious beliefs or morality that motivates Rusty Bowers, Mike Pense and Brad Raffensperger. They don't want to "violate" their oath of office to gain power, but they don't mind voting for a president that violates his oath of office and everything else he can get his hands on so they can gain and keep power. So that's my answer, Jay. POWER and the belief by Republicans that they stand to lose it, possibly forever, if they don't lie, cheat and steal their way into top positions in the United States. The results of this Republican lust for power at any cost has many victims in its wake, one such group are the severely radicalized, out of control cult members of the base, who do ooze with hate for anything that they have been programmed to see as bad, which includes many progressive ideas.
May I take a stab, although it's a rhetorical question? It is hatred, as you say, promulgated largely by white, not-too-well-educated, older, straight men who feel disenfranchised. Thus they distrust intellectuals, liberated women, people of color, non-Christians, gays and science. Particularly they detest climate science because, god forbid, they must look to a day without gasoline and sufficient water.
The thought of a world in which they are no longer the de facto top of the pecking order is anathema. It will all come to pass, of course, it's just that they are unable to accept it. The question is, will the rest of us be able to survive as individuals and as a nation while awaiting and fighting for justice, fairness and sensibility?
The (mostly) straight white men who are riding this whirlwind are in general exceptionally well educated. Most of the rest of what you write does apply, but I think you've left out a crucial piece: the generally well educated, extremely wealthy (mostly) straight white men who are financing all this angst.
True! I had in mind the yokels of Proud Boys, the idiots on the SCOTUS (I don't care if they are lawyers. They cannot think beyond their sponsors,) the lower income guys who watch all things Fox, and evangelical believers. But yes, the Kochs and their ilk are crafty to say the least. I don't think the rich white boys are quite the same, although the outcome is often similar. They are mostly not wanting to pay for social programs and "welfare queens" with all their ill-gotten gains. Uninhibited profiteering corporations are on the same list, too.
It's hard for me to guess what drives the Rs but I think you've said it here, Hope -- "white, not-too-well-educated, older, straight men who feel disenfranchised. Thus they distrust intellectuals, liberated women, people of color, non-Christians, gays and science. Particularly they detest climate science because, god forbid, they must look to a day without gasoline and sufficient water."
I think we are coming into very hard times re: climate change and food & water shortages. It will affect the underclasses mostl, and those you name (white, not-too-well-educated, older, straight men who feel disenfranchised) are struggling with all their might to stay on top. They are near drowning and they can't swim very well.
Those who talk about their religion in just about every context have a laser focus on abortion. I suppose they are all dancing in the street today. But now that over half of this country just lost our constitutional rights, we'll see how this affects 2020 and 2024. I'd not like to be one of those Stench Benchers right now or one of those old white sickos in Congress (men and women) who are celebrating. They might consider packing up their offices. Once out, they'll never get back their tax payer funded cushy jobs or their social events funded by dark money. Maybe they can all rent a room at Mar a Lago?
Ellen - you will not find consensus among southern women. But yes - the logical result of this decision should be a large rallying of women voters in general. My hope is that this will also shake some sense into lazy disappointed progressive voters, male or female, who would "protest vote" by not voting at all, and instead turn them out in huge numbers this November. What we need is an overwhelming blue wave. Perhaps this, and the upcoming decision to hamstring the EPA, will do it.
James, Are you familiar with a fair number of '... lazy disappointed progressive voters, male or female, тАж'? My experience is with highly motivated citizens. First time voters, Black, Hispanic and others, may be shy. some aren't very informed and need help with information, encouragement and access to the polls as well as absentee ballots.
I think over and over about the book Dark Money, which uncovered the layers of conniving throughout our institutions, not just in Congress and SCOTUS, but universities, religions, and media. At first it focuses on the Koch brothers, but it is a world wide phenomenon with white male oligarchs and other authoritarians, including Putin, at the helm.
Dark Money shook me to my core. Like toxic, invasive weeds, the roots are deep and intertwined. While we were working hard and playing by the rules, our values and decency were being choked out by these monsters.
Exactly! We play by the rules and they play Lucy holding Charlie Brown's football. Right now, am thinking about Mitch McConnell and Supreme Court nominees. Or free speech vs. Fox News. Or now-you-see States' Rights, now you don't. On and on.
I don't know if the accusation of 'stunt' by Mike S. for the 'court-authorized' search of Jeffrey's Clark home is only based on the timing of the House committee's hearing with this law enforcement activity. No evidence for his claim was provided. Mike sounds like many in his impatience with the Department of Justice. Could the DOJ slowness to act from Mike's point of view be reason for it to pull a 'stunt'? At the very least, the department's investigations in activity to subvert democratic processes are not frivolous.
Yesterday, Federal agents conducted тАЬcourt-authorizedтАЩ law enforcement activityтАЭ at a variety of locations, showing up at the homes of a variety of Republican officials, including aides who worked with and for Donald TrumpтАЩs campaign, as well as the home of Jeffrey Clark, a former Justice Department official.
'The search at Mr. ClarkтАЩs home was a significant step in the Justice DepartmentтАЩs many-tentacled inquiry into the efforts to subvert the democratic process after the 2020 election.
тАШClark may not be a household name, but when it comes to understanding the Republican efforts to overturn the 2020 presidential election, few witnesses are as important.тАЩ (MSNBC, NYTimes)
During the Second World War, both Winston Churchill and Franklin Roosevelt quoted Longfellow when promising retribution for the extermination of the Jews.
What many of us would like to do with six members of Supreme Court would be only slow enough to cause a great deal of pain for a while.
Hope, Your caring and thoughtful participation on the forum as well as the contributions of other subscribers is what keeps the forum vital. I am honored by your appreciation. The feeling is mutual. Let's keep it going together. Salud!
'After months of furious street battles and a heavy death toll, Ukraine will withdraw its forces from the largely ruined city of Sievierodonetsk, according to the local governor.'
'The fall means that only the city of Lysychansk across the river stands in the way of Russia gaining full control of the eastern Luhansk region. Once Russia has Luhansk, it could then turn its attention to the neighboring Donetsk region. Together, the two regions make up the Donbas, UkraineтАЩs industrial heartland.'
'Serhiy Haidai, the head of the Luhansk regionтАЩs military administration, said that it тАЬdoes not make senseтАЭ to hold on to positions in the city any longer. тАЬThe number of people killed will increase every day,тАЭ he said.'
'The Kremlin has devoted a large portion of its forces to taking Sievierodonetsk and the 30-mile-wide pocket of land surrounding it. To take the city, Russia has had to devastate it with artillery strikes. About 90 percent of the buildings have been destroyed and only 8,000 civilians remain, according to Ukrainian officials.'
Something I can't quite understand is why Putin is allowed to manipulate this tragic rout at will. I asked the same question about the invasion of Afghanistan just to "get" Osama bin Laden. Why in hell's name are tens of thousands of innocent people killed when one bad actor and a few henchmen devise havoc and pathological cruelty? When Pres. Obama "got" bin Laden, I thought that was the right thing to do from the beginning, yet the President got almost no appreciation or respect for a well-designed event to punish the perp.
Since the dawn of time, the strong have invaded the weak. Reasons and excuses vary but the purpose is the same, to gain resources of some kind. The rich make the wars and the poor fight them. Allies become enemies and enemies allies.
Obama got very little credit for anything since he was Black.
Are you serious? What a poor choice of words. To cheapen a move by the DOJ as a тАЬstuntтАЭ after all the criticism heaped on them is beyond the pale.
Can we all get on the same page that different entities are moving in coordination to retain democracy and expose criminals at highest level of government under Trump?
Perhaps it was a poor choice of words. I accept the feedback and thank you.
However, I learned of Jeffrey Clark as a long ago as February 2021. I knew, a guy who reads maybe 40 minutes a day in various newspapers, about Clark's efforts to lay at Trumps feet and do his bidding.
It is now the end of June 2022 and the FBI have search Clark's home for the first time.
So, if I knew about clark so long ago, how is it that the FBI only now, in coordination with public exposure via Jan 06, is just now searching Clark's home?
Does it not seem "late" at the very least and possibly a "stunt"?
Because, the FBI does not have to wait for a televised expose to do an investigation of its own and execute search warrants.
Appreciate your explanation Michael, and your frustration with DOJ. But because they are dealing with gangsters, timing is critical. In this case, I suspect with the J6 Committee about to expose him, and having enough evidence against him, and public opinion now turning away from the scoundrels, they had to act quickly to preserve evidence. To my mind it is a carefully choreographed dance, not a black & white investigation. I look forward to the book and movie. This real time stuff is too harrowing.
A stunt? That doesnтАЩt fit GarlandтАЩs reputation. And to what advantage? Also, some fake state electors also received FBI visits yesterday. WeтАЩre in the midst of a high-stakes drama like no other. Most of the machinations are secret. We canтАЩt judge the effectiveness yet.
Exactly. Boy, am I feeling it in my body and mind today. Please, everyone, take really good care of yourselves and do at least one thing per day that calms and soothes you. We must take good care of ourselves for the long haul. Am off to the great outdoors...
I'm grilling a decadent feast and eating in the backyard next to our very small pond and waterfall with my best friend. Celebrating our half birthdays, or at least that's our excuse. My teenage son, quite the baker, has made a butter matcha cake with chocolate glaze for us.
Oh, happy half-birthday, Michael! Sounds like a divine evening with with a body of water AND the sound of falling water. My favorite things. Thanks for sharing how you are re-charging your battery. Celebrate anything!
Well, it's my full birthday today and quite an elderly one. Each year the well-wishers dwindle, but that's to be expected. Nevertheless, there are old FB friends, a few relatives' phone calls and some cards. But perhaps the most meaningful BD wish was from a little poor lady in my apartment building who brought me a ceramic lamb, clearly not new, that she had once treasured. So it goes. Enjoy the out-of-doors and I wish you a lovely day, Michael. And, Pensa, isn't Vermont lovely this early summer day!?
Excellent idea, MaryPat! Water is good for the soul!! Need to tell all the seditious conspirators against our country to do the same--and wake up to their destruction. Go Jump In The Lake! Just not MaryPat's!!
Perhaps it was a poor choice of words. I accept the feedback and thank you.
However, I learned of Jeffrey Clark as a long ago as February 2021. I knew, a guy who reads maybe 40 minutes a day in various newspapers, about Clark's efforts to lay at Trumps feet and do his bidding.
It is now the end of June 2022 and the FBI have searched Clark's home for the first time.
So, if I knew about Clark so long ago, how is it that the FBI only now, in coordination with public exposure via Jan 06, is just now searching Clark's home?
Does it not seem "late" at the very least and possibly a "stunt"?
Because, the FBI does not have to wait for a televised expose to do an investigation of its own and execute search warrants.
I have not been made aware of your knowledge regarding the processes taken by the DOJ in preparation of providing a judge with specific crime or crimes suspected and evidence of such, so that a 'court approved' search could be granted. Your application of guesswork and suspicion was not the least bit convincing to me. Obviously, you think you learned a lot about Clark from the reading of a friend of yours. That is not in-depth learning in my book. Nothing you have written has provided me with even a hint of the 'possibly a 'stunt'. I do note how hard you cling to something cooked up in your mind.
Michael,
"The FBI's search of Jeffrey Clark's home seems like a momentous turning point."
To me the FBI search of Clark's home seems like a stunt.
We have (all) known about Jeffrey Clark's willingness to take Rosen's job and do Trump's bidding since a couple of weeks after the Jan 06 insurrection from various news sources.
But, on the very day when the Jan 06 committee details what happened between Clark and Rosen? The Justice department simultaneously decides to raid his house?
I ask: What took the Justice Department so long? Why wait until now? Why did the Justice Department not raid Clark's house a long time ago when the NY Times detailed parts of this story?
Clark has had plenty of time to clean up his phone and his icloud storage account and his hard drive. Plenty. I imagine he was pretty relaxed "standing outside in his pajama's".
A stunt. That's what the raid on Clark's house feels like.
A last question for you Michael: Why not raid Mara Lago instead?
I think it was perfectly orchestrated.
The case needed to be built from the ground up in order to create a logical and cohesive pattern to their scheme. And it has to stick.
This compilation of evidence is objectively fascinating, and my original pessimism is fading.
But I'll hip hip hooray when it's conclusion is multiple indictments.
Speaking of orchestration, was the release of the Supreme Court's decision overturning Roe v. Wade timed to draw attention away from the results of the Jan. 6 hearings? Of course the Roe decision is very important, but the results of the Jan. 6 investigation are even more important, I believe: if the insurrection goes unpunished, then abortion rights and many others could disappear. A difficult time in our history.
John Dean on NPR at noon today, Friday, said if tfg isn't indicted, then the president is (always) above the law. But Mr. Dean could see no way out of indicting Trump.
Well, end of session SCOTUS decisions generally come down around now. They include more than the usual dose of awful, true, but the committee must have had this in mind when they scheduled their hearings.
We have a very large cult of brainwashed trumpsters. They have proven to be violent and willing to kill for trump. This is a level that equals potential Nazi's who have been trained to attack. They attack our elected officials and our schoolboards. They must, very systematically, see this corruption by the POTUS and all his minions in movie style. This is the only way they MIGHT understand that their leader is a rogue criminal who lied and ab used them to his own means. Power, money, and that highest level narcissistic evil, Adoration. This is equal to Hitler. 1 million of our own people have died because trump lied about the hoax pandemic. This is going to snap brains. We have not even gotten to the "Russian Hoax" yet. And who funds Bannon, Manafort, Conway, Flynn and the early players. This is so big and so deep. Realize that Garland and his crew have the biggest, deepest job any AG has ever had in the history of our country, or maybe the world and he is very systematic. And we don't know all of it. Yet. It is All connected. Be patient and enjoy the quiet for this moment.
"This is so big and deep," Amen. But is is not a quiet moment. The SCOTUS has ruled against the constitutionality of Roe v. Wade. It is another straw about to break the backs of sane Americans.
Vote Blue in '22
I bet if you made and sold posters with that slogan you would become very rich!! I'd buy one right away.
Women's reactions to the SCOTUS ruling are not going to come off the boil in the months between now and the midterms.
A Lysistrata moment if ever there was one.
For the rest, I don't dare write what I think, what I feel about the gross party-political -- i.e. tribal -- abuse of such a delicate, intimate and intrinsically painful issue, and of women as responsible agents. That in combination with the upholding of gun worship.
Clarence Thomas has already given Republicans the blanket approval that they should overturn ALL personal rights-please read: https://www.politico.com/news/2022/06/24/thomas-constitutional-rights-00042256
I wonder how the impeach Thomas movement is doing? What a self-righteous, misogynist ass he is!
Except, of course, Loving.
Very perceptive!
Yep--they know they only have a short window now to commit as many dirty deeds as possible.
They will be on it.
In order to see, they need to look, and from what I've been reading, the only place they're looking is FOX, et al, sources which will not feed them the truth, even in baby steps.
YES.
I'm not convinced it was purely a stunt. Maybe it was the DoJ simply playing catch-up?
But it was noted last night that this 5th hearing was originally scheduled for last week, and the subject matter was announced beforehand. It was then postponed with vague explanations of technical problems.
Perhaps the DoJ asked that it be postponed to allow the serving of the subpoena BEFORE the public hearing, so Clark wouldn't feel like he should destroy evidence after hearing the evidence against him?
Jaime Raskin was specifically asked that question on MSNBC by Nicole Wallace right after Barbara McQuade suggested it, and he looked like he'd been blindsided by the question. He was not expecting it, and seemed flustered, and came up with a non-answer about all the evidence they'd been receiving and then pivoted to what they were were going to be doing in the future.
I think he deflected with his answer. Maybe even lied. I think the DoJ and the committee are working together, at least informally.
I hope they are.
I agree. The hearing was rescheduled. The search was executed on Wednesday morning. The hearing was Thursday afternoon. The timing seemed purposeful and exquisite. I have a cousin who is a computer forensic expert. Were he to have tried to hide evidence, she would have found it. It can be done. I have a feeling that those electronics contain a treasure trove of incriminating evidence.
Unless he ditched all of his electronics and replaced them recently with new (which alone would be a major red flag), anything he may have thought he deleted isn't really deleted. As for the Cloud, I expect there are ways for forensic computer experts to access and download. Things live forever in the tech universe no matter how much you may try to hide something. I can't imagine Clark and others are tech-savvy enough to understand this.
Yeah John - I think it went down something like you describe. The DOJ timing and the select committee timing seem to be intersecting at certain aspects of the investigation. It's very intriguing. I believe a whole lot of Republicans are (or should be) soiling their diapers.
I sure hope so!!
I hope most people will understand that yesterday's hearing was postponed at the DOJs request so as to not interfere with their investigation. They do just that with leading newspapers and broadcasters. Nothing new there. It can't be overlooked that it is known that the DOJ asked for evidence right around the same time. That ask was probably incorrect. They didn't ask for evidence they asked that they not show their investigation until the paperwork for the search was signed.
I tend to agree with you that this is so big that they are coordinating to ease this out to the public, degree by degree.
ItтАЩs delicate handling such stunning and far reaching criminality considering that the kingpin was a POTUS who received so many votes to get re-elected and still has a large group of supporters in Congress and throughout our country and the world willing to look the other way as long as he keeps supporting their views on guns, immigration, abortion, etc. AG Garland would be an utter fool if he were not to handle this case with all due care and consideration possible including political optics . He is taking the fight to a large domestic enemy willing to do anything to stay in power. We had a Civil War already тАж he must make a case that is so strong the independents will have no choice to acknowledge the truth. As for the large group of Americans who are supposed true believers willfully ignoring the facts ? Ultimately, they will most likely continue to remain among us as family members and neighbors unwilling to change their minds until they decide for themselves to do soтАж. or they donтАЩt.
"Delicate" it is. To say the least. One of the things that shakes me the most is the willingness of Republican officials to, if the choice presents itself, vote for Trump again. That wingnut from Arizona who testified Tuesday - Rusty Bowers - said exactly that. That Trump and his policies prior to Covid were great for the country. A guy who looks to his god for action, and wants everyone to know it. This after just drawing and quartering Trump with his testimony. We have a large swath of the country who abhor progressive policy so much that they would see the most dangerous and incompetent person to ever occupy the White House re-installed!!!!!! To literally make a deal with the devil. Think on that. How can progressive policy be hated to that extent? Is it abortion? Gun control? Is it civil rights? Climate change mitigation? LGQBT policy? Evolution? All of the above? What is it? Something is making them resort to seriously sordid acts of desperation to stop us.
I think the "something making them resort to seriously sordid acts of desperation" is POWER. This march to gain control for the minority in America has been carefully planned for decades by rich Republican donors and organizations like the Federalist Society. They saw that white males would be in the minority in the foreseeable future and have worked for decades to build up and radicalize their base using made up issues like abortion rights (which had not been a Republican issue before) and white male grievance, while also carefully inserting Republicans into state legislatures and onto various courts across the country. The ultimate result was their ability to shove radical right wing lawyers onto the Supreme Court until they had a majority AND to impress their Republican politicians that if they wanted white Republican males and right-wing rich corporations to exert maximum control over America, they had to do whatever it took to gain and hold power. So the overwhelming motivator for the politicians is not hate, it's power. It's not virtuous religious beliefs or morality that motivates Rusty Bowers, Mike Pense and Brad Raffensperger. They don't want to "violate" their oath of office to gain power, but they don't mind voting for a president that violates his oath of office and everything else he can get his hands on so they can gain and keep power. So that's my answer, Jay. POWER and the belief by Republicans that they stand to lose it, possibly forever, if they don't lie, cheat and steal their way into top positions in the United States. The results of this Republican lust for power at any cost has many victims in its wake, one such group are the severely radicalized, out of control cult members of the base, who do ooze with hate for anything that they have been programmed to see as bad, which includes many progressive ideas.
Yup.
May I take a stab, although it's a rhetorical question? It is hatred, as you say, promulgated largely by white, not-too-well-educated, older, straight men who feel disenfranchised. Thus they distrust intellectuals, liberated women, people of color, non-Christians, gays and science. Particularly they detest climate science because, god forbid, they must look to a day without gasoline and sufficient water.
The thought of a world in which they are no longer the de facto top of the pecking order is anathema. It will all come to pass, of course, it's just that they are unable to accept it. The question is, will the rest of us be able to survive as individuals and as a nation while awaiting and fighting for justice, fairness and sensibility?
The (mostly) straight white men who are riding this whirlwind are in general exceptionally well educated. Most of the rest of what you write does apply, but I think you've left out a crucial piece: the generally well educated, extremely wealthy (mostly) straight white men who are financing all this angst.
True! I had in mind the yokels of Proud Boys, the idiots on the SCOTUS (I don't care if they are lawyers. They cannot think beyond their sponsors,) the lower income guys who watch all things Fox, and evangelical believers. But yes, the Kochs and their ilk are crafty to say the least. I don't think the rich white boys are quite the same, although the outcome is often similar. They are mostly not wanting to pay for social programs and "welfare queens" with all their ill-gotten gains. Uninhibited profiteering corporations are on the same list, too.
Man-ipulating it.
It's hard for me to guess what drives the Rs but I think you've said it here, Hope -- "white, not-too-well-educated, older, straight men who feel disenfranchised. Thus they distrust intellectuals, liberated women, people of color, non-Christians, gays and science. Particularly they detest climate science because, god forbid, they must look to a day without gasoline and sufficient water."
I think we are coming into very hard times re: climate change and food & water shortages. It will affect the underclasses mostl, and those you name (white, not-too-well-educated, older, straight men who feel disenfranchised) are struggling with all their might to stay on top. They are near drowning and they can't swim very well.
Those who talk about their religion in just about every context have a laser focus on abortion. I suppose they are all dancing in the street today. But now that over half of this country just lost our constitutional rights, we'll see how this affects 2020 and 2024. I'd not like to be one of those Stench Benchers right now or one of those old white sickos in Congress (men and women) who are celebrating. They might consider packing up their offices. Once out, they'll never get back their tax payer funded cushy jobs or their social events funded by dark money. Maybe they can all rent a room at Mar a Lago?
Ellen - you will not find consensus among southern women. But yes - the logical result of this decision should be a large rallying of women voters in general. My hope is that this will also shake some sense into lazy disappointed progressive voters, male or female, who would "protest vote" by not voting at all, and instead turn them out in huge numbers this November. What we need is an overwhelming blue wave. Perhaps this, and the upcoming decision to hamstring the EPA, will do it.
James, Are you familiar with a fair number of '... lazy disappointed progressive voters, male or female, тАж'? My experience is with highly motivated citizens. First time voters, Black, Hispanic and others, may be shy. some aren't very informed and need help with information, encouragement and access to the polls as well as absentee ballots.
Vote Blue in '22
James- I wonder the same thing about the visceral hatred of anything proposed by Democrats- I simply donтАЩt understand.
Think of everyday Germans turning on their Jewish neighbors with visceral hatred. Propaganda works
DonтАЩt overlook the decades of propaganda that have manipulated these minds.
I think over and over about the book Dark Money, which uncovered the layers of conniving throughout our institutions, not just in Congress and SCOTUS, but universities, religions, and media. At first it focuses on the Koch brothers, but it is a world wide phenomenon with white male oligarchs and other authoritarians, including Putin, at the helm.
Hope
Dark Money shook me to my core. Like toxic, invasive weeds, the roots are deep and intertwined. While we were working hard and playing by the rules, our values and decency were being choked out by these monsters.
Exactly! We play by the rules and they play Lucy holding Charlie Brown's football. Right now, am thinking about Mitch McConnell and Supreme Court nominees. Or free speech vs. Fox News. Or now-you-see States' Rights, now you don't. On and on.
Racism
I don't know if the accusation of 'stunt' by Mike S. for the 'court-authorized' search of Jeffrey's Clark home is only based on the timing of the House committee's hearing with this law enforcement activity. No evidence for his claim was provided. Mike sounds like many in his impatience with the Department of Justice. Could the DOJ slowness to act from Mike's point of view be reason for it to pull a 'stunt'? At the very least, the department's investigations in activity to subvert democratic processes are not frivolous.
Yesterday, Federal agents conducted тАЬcourt-authorizedтАЩ law enforcement activityтАЭ at a variety of locations, showing up at the homes of a variety of Republican officials, including aides who worked with and for Donald TrumpтАЩs campaign, as well as the home of Jeffrey Clark, a former Justice Department official.
'The search at Mr. ClarkтАЩs home was a significant step in the Justice DepartmentтАЩs many-tentacled inquiry into the efforts to subvert the democratic process after the 2020 election.
тАШClark may not be a household name, but when it comes to understanding the Republican efforts to overturn the 2020 presidential election, few witnesses are as important.тАЩ (MSNBC, NYTimes)
Thank you, Fern.
Agree. The mills of the gods...
THOUGH the mills of God grind slowly,
Yet they grind exceeding small;
Though with patience he stands waiting,
With exactness grinds he all.
Henry Wadsworth Longfellow (translator)
During the Second World War, both Winston Churchill and Franklin Roosevelt quoted Longfellow when promising retribution for the extermination of the Jews.
What many of us would like to do with six members of Supreme Court would be only slow enough to cause a great deal of pain for a while.
I tell you, Fern, you are on top of everything, With admiration, I must ask have you ever thought of running for President?
Hope, Your caring and thoughtful participation on the forum as well as the contributions of other subscribers is what keeps the forum vital. I am honored by your appreciation. The feeling is mutual. Let's keep it going together. Salud!
ЁЯТЩЁЯТЫЁЯМ╗ ЁЯдЭЁЯП╝ ЁЯТУ
with support and care
ЁЯМ┐
'The fall of Sievierodonetsk'
'After months of furious street battles and a heavy death toll, Ukraine will withdraw its forces from the largely ruined city of Sievierodonetsk, according to the local governor.'
'The fall means that only the city of Lysychansk across the river stands in the way of Russia gaining full control of the eastern Luhansk region. Once Russia has Luhansk, it could then turn its attention to the neighboring Donetsk region. Together, the two regions make up the Donbas, UkraineтАЩs industrial heartland.'
'Serhiy Haidai, the head of the Luhansk regionтАЩs military administration, said that it тАЬdoes not make senseтАЭ to hold on to positions in the city any longer. тАЬThe number of people killed will increase every day,тАЭ he said.'
'The Kremlin has devoted a large portion of its forces to taking Sievierodonetsk and the 30-mile-wide pocket of land surrounding it. To take the city, Russia has had to devastate it with artillery strikes. About 90 percent of the buildings have been destroyed and only 8,000 civilians remain, according to Ukrainian officials.'
(NYTime, at 5:05PM ET)
Saw that
Something I can't quite understand is why Putin is allowed to manipulate this tragic rout at will. I asked the same question about the invasion of Afghanistan just to "get" Osama bin Laden. Why in hell's name are tens of thousands of innocent people killed when one bad actor and a few henchmen devise havoc and pathological cruelty? When Pres. Obama "got" bin Laden, I thought that was the right thing to do from the beginning, yet the President got almost no appreciation or respect for a well-designed event to punish the perp.
Since the dawn of time, the strong have invaded the weak. Reasons and excuses vary but the purpose is the same, to gain resources of some kind. The rich make the wars and the poor fight them. Allies become enemies and enemies allies.
Obama got very little credit for anything since he was Black.
Stunt????? Stunt??
Are you serious? What a poor choice of words. To cheapen a move by the DOJ as a тАЬstuntтАЭ after all the criticism heaped on them is beyond the pale.
Can we all get on the same page that different entities are moving in coordination to retain democracy and expose criminals at highest level of government under Trump?
Salud, Mike. ЁЯЧ╜
Christine, Everyone, sorry for delayed response.
Perhaps it was a poor choice of words. I accept the feedback and thank you.
However, I learned of Jeffrey Clark as a long ago as February 2021. I knew, a guy who reads maybe 40 minutes a day in various newspapers, about Clark's efforts to lay at Trumps feet and do his bidding.
It is now the end of June 2022 and the FBI have search Clark's home for the first time.
So, if I knew about clark so long ago, how is it that the FBI only now, in coordination with public exposure via Jan 06, is just now searching Clark's home?
Does it not seem "late" at the very least and possibly a "stunt"?
Because, the FBI does not have to wait for a televised expose to do an investigation of its own and execute search warrants.
Tha's all I meant Christine.
Appreciate your explanation Michael, and your frustration with DOJ. But because they are dealing with gangsters, timing is critical. In this case, I suspect with the J6 Committee about to expose him, and having enough evidence against him, and public opinion now turning away from the scoundrels, they had to act quickly to preserve evidence. To my mind it is a carefully choreographed dance, not a black & white investigation. I look forward to the book and movie. This real time stuff is too harrowing.
Thank You Christine.
A stunt? That doesnтАЩt fit GarlandтАЩs reputation. And to what advantage? Also, some fake state electors also received FBI visits yesterday. WeтАЩre in the midst of a high-stakes drama like no other. Most of the machinations are secret. We canтАЩt judge the effectiveness yet.
Exactly. Boy, am I feeling it in my body and mind today. Please, everyone, take really good care of yourselves and do at least one thing per day that calms and soothes you. We must take good care of ourselves for the long haul. Am off to the great outdoors...
I'm grilling a decadent feast and eating in the backyard next to our very small pond and waterfall with my best friend. Celebrating our half birthdays, or at least that's our excuse. My teenage son, quite the baker, has made a butter matcha cake with chocolate glaze for us.
Happy birthday, friends!
Oh, happy half-birthday, Michael! Sounds like a divine evening with with a body of water AND the sound of falling water. My favorite things. Thanks for sharing how you are re-charging your battery. Celebrate anything!
Well, it's my full birthday today and quite an elderly one. Each year the well-wishers dwindle, but that's to be expected. Nevertheless, there are old FB friends, a few relatives' phone calls and some cards. But perhaps the most meaningful BD wish was from a little poor lady in my apartment building who brought me a ceramic lamb, clearly not new, that she had once treasured. So it goes. Enjoy the out-of-doors and I wish you a lovely day, Michael. And, Pensa, isn't Vermont lovely this early summer day!?
Have an excellent day, Hope. Your name carries special meaning for all us here.
Yes, I am with Michael. Your name is something very special we can all carry in our hearts. Many Happy Returns of the Day, Hope!
warmly,
Penelope
I am going to go jump in the lake!
Excellent idea, MaryPat! Water is good for the soul!! Need to tell all the seditious conspirators against our country to do the same--and wake up to their destruction. Go Jump In The Lake! Just not MaryPat's!!
Thanks! I did! Refreshed and ready for battle! Now to get the seditionists washed out.
ЁЯШК And I just came in from watching fireflies on this perfect night with Mr. Higgins (my marmalade coon cat). Feeling much better as well. Onwards!!
Christine, Everyone, sorry for delayed response.
Perhaps it was a poor choice of words. I accept the feedback and thank you.
However, I learned of Jeffrey Clark as a long ago as February 2021. I knew, a guy who reads maybe 40 minutes a day in various newspapers, about Clark's efforts to lay at Trumps feet and do his bidding.
It is now the end of June 2022 and the FBI have searched Clark's home for the first time.
So, if I knew about Clark so long ago, how is it that the FBI only now, in coordination with public exposure via Jan 06, is just now searching Clark's home?
Does it not seem "late" at the very least and possibly a "stunt"?
Because, the FBI does not have to wait for a televised expose to do an investigation of its own and execute search warrants.
That's all I meant Christine.
I have not been made aware of your knowledge regarding the processes taken by the DOJ in preparation of providing a judge with specific crime or crimes suspected and evidence of such, so that a 'court approved' search could be granted. Your application of guesswork and suspicion was not the least bit convincing to me. Obviously, you think you learned a lot about Clark from the reading of a friend of yours. That is not in-depth learning in my book. Nothing you have written has provided me with even a hint of the 'possibly a 'stunt'. I do note how hard you cling to something cooked up in your mind.
Good thinking.
Interesting point Mike.
Mike,
Late to this comment threadтАж
My thought path took a similar turn. If only the gilded toilet and its plumbers could speak! Otherwise, a fireplace, underground tech wipe, Maralardo.
Nope. Not a stunt.