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Gailee Walker Wells's avatar

Anyone who saw him mock someone with a disability, talk about pussies, say he could stand on 5th Ave. and shoot someone and get away with it, yet still voted for him. (twice) .... these are the people I both loath and detest, for he is they and they are he. That there are so many dark and evil Americans must be studied if we are to move forward and upward. Beyond Hitler were the minions who did his bidding.

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Rosalind Gnatt's avatar

Actually, one of the first things Hitler set himself to do, was to nationalize the church. Here's a good synopsis of how, along with Hitler's rise to power, most of the church and its leaders were corrupted - Outliers were few. https://encyclopedia.ushmm.org/content/en/article/the-german-churches-and-the-nazi-state

One thinks of how the so-called Christians in the US now have sold their souls to another Hitler. Ironically (or not) Martin Niemöller spent his first night out of 7 years in prison in the pastor's house at the Bergkirche in Wiesbaden - the church I came to work with in 2013, and the only "resistance" church in the entire area.

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Rosalind Gnatt's avatar

I want to correct my above statement to say that there are many (not enough) churches in the US who are devoted to social justice of the kind that the Jewish Rabbi Jesus tried to get us to understand and to practice. I'd love to hear from others who know of, or who is a member of a church that has at its core social justice. I'll start: my US Church is Judson Memorial on Washington Square, Manhattan.

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Phyllis Heagney's avatar

Rosalind - Every Unitarian Universalist congregation Worldwide has social values at its core. To clarify, I am Phyllis husband of 33 years, Fred Dodge. Phyllis' great question to me yesterday - most days now, is: "Why would the Heroic witnesses from the J6 committee meetings still admit that they would vote for Darnold Rump if he were the Candidate again???? It boggles the mind.

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Rosalind Gnatt's avatar

Yes - it was through the UU Church of All Souls on Lexington Ave. that I was brought back to church. A Jewish baritone in the Met Opera chorus invited me. If I remember, engraved above the entrance is something like "Bring your intelligence in with you." All Souls was a founder of the Red Cross during the Civil War.

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Barbara D. Reed's avatar

(for clarity-Clara Barton established the Red Cross in 1888. During a trip to Switzerland in 1869, Clara learned about the Red Cross movement, a European humanitarian effort to provide neutral aid to those injured in combat. Inspired by that cause, Clara volunteered with the International Committee of the Red Cross, providing civilian relief during the Franco-Prussian War. Prior to that, the United States Sanitary Commission was a primary organization that promoted health and welfare of soldiers during the Civil War. (for context, I'm a history buff, a Civil War re-enactor, and retired RN).

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Michele's avatar

I think they might be just saying that figuring that the rat will not run in 2024, maybe in the hopes that the vile messages they and their families are receiving will at least lessen.

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Robin's avatar

Good morning Rosalind - My church is the First Congregational United Church of Christ in Platteville, WI. Our denomination, the "United Church of Christ", https://www.ucc.org/ was the first to ordain a black man, the first to ordain a woman, and the first to ordain an openly gay person into the clergy. The UCC has long been at the forefront of social justice. It is the only church I have attended where I can just be myself.

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SLWeston (PA)'s avatar

I did not know this abt UCC, Robin. Thank you for this and for the link.

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MaryB of Pasadena's avatar

All Saints Church, Pasadena: "...we are committed to audacious examination and challenging of power and privilege in the world and in our church; to pursue truth relentlessly, not for retribution but toward trust and reconciliation. We chose love over fear to overcome prejudice and promote healing to address oppression and to restore environmental equilibrium." We have an action table on the lawn each Sunday to help put our words into action for positive change. We have a long history of radical inclusion and social justice. Our former rector spoke out against the Vietnam War from the pulpit and Desmond Tutu was a frequent visitor when in town (I heard him preach perhaps 5 times over the years).

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Rosalind Gnatt's avatar

Thanks to you, MaryB, and to all of you who are sharing your congregations of social justice. My take is that the Jewish rabbi was all about social justice. We just didn't take him seriously - then or now.

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Roland (CA->WA)'s avatar

I find it amusing that the hypocrites calling themselves “Christians” who speak most loudly about their faith in Joshua of Nazareth are completely opposed to social justice. If you believe the stories, this guy had equal respect for saints and sinners, people of power and paupers, men and women, criminals and prostitutes. You have to laugh with derision at any boasting “Christian” who is anti-immigration, anti-gay and trans, anti-diversity. These people are hypocrites and losers, at least until they see the light.

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Rosalind Gnatt's avatar

Let's not forget the woman "taken in adultery." The draconian laws being passed in some states are criminalizing, as the New Yorker reports, little girls who become pregnant through rape and incest. Who among those perps has the right to cast the first stone?

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Barbara D. Reed's avatar

A commenter on a a FB group described that type of "christian" as a CINO- Christian In Name Only.

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Roland (CA->WA)'s avatar

I take him seriously

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Ellen's avatar

Although they don't worship in a "church," Quakers - members of the Society of Friends - have always been devoted to social justice. (I'm not a Quaker, but I graduated from a wonderful Quaker high school.)

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Rosalind Gnatt's avatar

I have high respect for the Quaker life and its devotion to social justice.

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Ally House (Oregon)'s avatar

First Christian Church (Disciples of Christ) Eugene Oregon.

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Joan Friedman (MA, from NY)'s avatar

Taking your question to include synagogues and mosques, I reply that Congegation Beit Simchat Torah in Manhattan surely qualifies.

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Rosalind Gnatt's avatar

Absolutely! The rabbi Jesus tried to teach the social justice of Torah, sadly to lots of deaf ears even now.

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AshleyR TN's avatar

Presbyterian (the liberal branch). My specific church’s mission: Engage our un-churched neighbors of every age and ethnicity to experience Jesus. Our process is simple: …Worship, Community, Service, and Generosity…to experience the peace, purpose, and power of Jesus Christ.

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diana from SF's avatar

It seems that social justice was a goal among some denominations during the 1980's, but the concept has fallen by the wayside.

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Gailee Walker Wells's avatar

Thank you for this. I think that you would be someone so interesting to know and have conversations with.

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MLMinET's avatar

I agree!

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Rosalind Gnatt's avatar

Thank you, Gailee. Any time...

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Rosalind Gnatt's avatar

That would be easy - the study of evil Americans. But for a start we'd need to make A People's History of the United States by Howard Zinn required reading for every person that holds a US Passport. We have told our children fairy tales, and very dangerous ones, since the fairytale of the good and godly pilgrims...actually even before their decimation of the indigenous nations through the introduction of European illnesses and, dare I say, guns.

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Roland (CA->WA)'s avatar

I call it the European Invasion of the New World.

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Pensa_VT's avatar

You call it correctly, dear Roland!

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Roland (CA->WA)'s avatar

Thank you Sweetheart. I love you too.

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Pensa_VT's avatar

Absolutely, Rosalind! Absolutely!

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John Ranta's avatar

Hear hear, Gailee. A fraud like Trump would never have gotten near the White House were it not for 62 million deplorable (Hillary got THAT right) voters in 2016. To think that, after watching his abhorrent, incompetent clown act for 4 years 11 million MORE voted for him in 2020 is unthinkable. There is no justification for voting for Trump. I can never forgive them.

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T L Mills's avatar

Amen, JR. That so many people were so easily swayed, tells me that it didn't take much to 'sway' them. And of course, Rupert's Fox entertainment 'news' deftly prepared the way.

Although I have been a Dem for well over forty years, it must said that the Dems, especially the DNC, the DCCC and the DLC (ended in 2011) from 1985 to 2011 to the present have done less than nothing to counter the Repub strategies.

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Sandra VO (Maryland)'s avatar

Speaking, TC Mills, about Rupert's impact, I was heartened to read Margaret Sullivan's column yesterday in the Post about the Handbook on how to Protect Democracy, an excellent Guide, but should have been available when Trump came down the golden escalator in 2015, imho!

How journalists can spot the signs of autocracy — and help ward it off - The Washington Post

https://www.washingtonpost.com/media/2022/06/23/protect-democracy-media-jan6-journalists-autocracy/

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Pensa_VT's avatar

If you understand history, it was pretty obvious from the get go. But trump loves the uneducated.

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Pensa_VT's avatar

We are not totally sure that the election was not "rigged." Remeber that Twittler did project outwards that if he did not win, it meant it was rigged. That was a telltale sign to me that he had help from within in 2016. He had the paid thugs, Manafort, Flynn, Conway and Bannon funded by hostile foreign entities and a conspiracy-crazed billionaire American oligarch and his daughter financially supporting other ruin of America. And despite all that, he lost the popular vote in 2016. That must eat at his ego every day.

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Gailee Walker Wells's avatar

⚘⚘⚘ Neither can I

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Beth Cobb's avatar

He got the anti abortion vote.

Those people (believe me I was married into a family of them) will make any excuse because they are saving all those unborn babies.

Funny how the only people I know personally who had abortions are the people in that group.

By the way, the majority of the group are well educated and have great jobs.

Bet you can't figure out what they all have in common.

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Bill Alstrom (MAtoMainetoMA)'s avatar

We as Democrats or Independents STILL have not wrapped our heads around this fact. TFG got elected ONLY because of his anti-abortion position - which was a clever way to rope a dope the bible thumpers.

This is and has been a one issue problem that Democrats just don't get. Long ago, we could have made the case that we want less abortions - but making them illegal wouldn't stop them.

We have not been clear that education and readily available birth control are the answers to less abortions. We could have been speaking at churches and rural community centers - telling the TRUTH about this issue. But we foolishly underestimated the ignorance and single minded commitment of the anti-abortion mindset. I didn't. All you had to do was drive down route 95 into the south and see the billboards with pictures of a fetus.

We made mind altering drugs illegal - did that stop people from using them? We made gambling illegal - how did that work out? We had a prohibition of alcohol - was there a shortage of booze?

All of these and other "prohibitions" don't work. They simply push the activity underground. We have yet to make that case.

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Joan Friedman (MA, from NY)'s avatar

There are two proven ways to reduce abortions. 1. Give women as much control as humanly possible over whether or not they get pregnant. 2. Provide enough social support so that every child has food, shelter, clothing and education. (It also helps if fixing the problem of a missed menses is categorized as a womens health concern, as it had been for thousands of years.) Both progressives and people genuinely opposed to abortion on moral grounds can agree on both those points. But they don’t serve the needs of the grifters who used anti-abortion as a tool to get themselves money and power.

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Cathy (W. Michigan)'s avatar

You hit the nail on the head. The vast majority of my friends vote Repubiqan on the single issue of abortion. tRumps abhorrent behavior is overlooked because . . . abortion.

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Bongo-1, VT's avatar

And once the cord is cut these holier-than-thou hypocrites don’t care one iota what happens to those poor children.

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Pensa_VT's avatar

And their cognitive dissonance is exactly that. More children means more programs needed = more money needed to care for them. Some Men want power and control over all others. We are smelling the stinky head of the angry patriarchal society wanting to "Take Back America." Purify the blood... and skin color. Hitlerian on a deep scale. Martial law was next. They were willing to have bounties on women...and anyone who helped them. WTF!!

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Bongo-1, VT's avatar

And now all the white supremacist justices, which includes Injustice Thomas, overturned Roe v Wade. Another huge step backward!

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Jeff Carpenter's avatar

Good point!

America has been terrible dealing with addictive vices. The solution to opioid addiction exists in Portugal and Switzerland, but it's "understood" that can never happen here.

Johann Hari analyses it in 15 minutes:

https://www.ted.com/talks/johann_hari_everything_you_think_you_know_about_addiction_is_wrong?language=en

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Kathleen Fernandez's avatar

Just got an alert that the Supremes have overturned Roe v. Wade. Will that make a difference for the midterms?

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Barbara D. Reed's avatar

Kathleen-now that Thomas has gotten what he wanted regarding a woman's autonomy, he has voiced the idea that ALL personal rights should be undone. He didn't waste any time telling the state level R's to go after those rights as well. Please read: https://www.politico.com/news/2022/06/24/thomas-constitutional-rights-00042256

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Pensa_VT's avatar

Abortion AND tapping into the macho, white male superiority (FEAR) of the "other" as a backlash to the first bi-racial president in our country. And others I know for whom it was all about not paying taxes in the highest income brackets. This is complex. As are humans.

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Frankom's avatar

Save the unborn babies and follow up by failing to provide for their future.

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Rosalind Gnatt's avatar

Yep. And how many young women have they helped except themselves?

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Sandra P. Campbell's avatar

Same here. One thing that has surprised - and disheartened me since 2016 is learning how many mean-spirited people we live among. I knew many of my neighbors were of such stripe, but I had no idea it was so pervasive across the country.

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L duffy's avatar

THAT is it. Disheartening, incredulous, shock, dismay and how many other adjectives to describe heartache for our "civil society" that turns out to be not so civil. Not such a shining beacon on the hill after all. Uh oh, am I "woke"?

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Citizen60's avatar

I know. I’ve gone from “how did I miss this?” In 2016 to “This must be who we are” on January 6th, 2021–and 147 Republicans from across the nation voted No that night.

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Gailee Walker Wells's avatar

I feel exactly the same.

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Beth's avatar

INCLUDING Speaker Rusty Bowers and Secretary Brad Raffensperger. Let's not be too tempted to hold them up as heroes at this point for providing testimony to Trump and his team's criminality. They openly admit under oath they wanted him re-elected despite all you mentioned followed by a horrible term dominated by a totally bungled pandemic threat.

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Gina's avatar

Bowers lost me when he said the Constitution was divinely inspired. Religious zealots give up their own power, own agency, and that of others, and turn everything over to a god they believe speaks to them. Not a big jump from that to membership in a cult.

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Roland (CA->WA)'s avatar

Agreed. I had the same reaction, Gina. But at least, in his confused way, he has respect for the institutions of this country. Most of today’s Republicans have lost it completely, starting with the corrupt ex-Prez and R members of Congress.

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Pensa_VT's avatar

How much does he respect women, I wonder. Anyone who respects a p-grabber and is into the "divine" has some loose screws. (not really a pun...).

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james wheaton (Jay)'s avatar

Me too. Red lights began to light up and circle. And this guy also admitted he would vote for Trump AGAIN, if placed against Biden in 2024. WTF????

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Citizen60's avatar

Mormons believe Jesus visited America before He rose again to consecrate what would be a new nation under His rule, and asked God to write the Constitution when that time was right. It’s been a while since I attended Mormon Sunday school for a very short while, but think that’s the basics. Slightly less bizarre to me than being marooned for all eternity on your own planet

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Ally House (Oregon)'s avatar

I think that their fortitude in holding to their oath of office, irrespective of what their personal beliefs are should not be so shocking to us. The very purpose of an oath is to make a commitment to the greater whole, rather than just your personal interest. The fact that they are held up for being heroes for keeping their promise (oath) says far, far more about us as a people than just about anything else.

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Beth's avatar

Ally, exactly! They just did their job, in this instance at least. I appreciate that but that doesn't make one a hero. It's what they're supposed to do. The fact that a whole bunch of Trump's cronies did/are not upholding their oath doesn't mean those who do are especially heroic.

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Bongo-1, VT's avatar

Unfu**ingbelievable!

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Roland (CA->WA)'s avatar

These human beings are a lost cause

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T L Mills's avatar

That alone precludes any bestowal of 'hero' status as far as I'm concerned.

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Gailee Walker Wells's avatar

Absolutely right! Just turns my stomach. When I read that, I wish I hadn't given them respect.

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Roland (CA->WA)'s avatar

They deserve the respect we would’ve given 10 or 20 or 30 years ago to a Republican with at least the minimum amount of dignity to support the Constitution and our laws. At least they’re not MAGA anarchists. The lesser of two evils. But certainly not people to admire or idolize, unless you’re one of those clueless white supremacists who call themselves Republican in 2022.

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Roland (CA->WA)'s avatar

I watched Bowers and Raffensperger. And Cheney and Kinzinger. They are Republicans with a brain, but they are certainly no heroes of mine. They wouldn’t be voted into office in California that’s for sure. Except if they got very lucky, like in McCarthy’s Bakersfield district.

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james wheaton (Jay)'s avatar

Oh it's worse than that Beth - Bowers said if the opportunity arose that he would vote Trump over Biden. That would make it three times!! Barr said the same thing. These are not heroes at all. Their twisted minds actually like what he did in office, minus an attempted coup.

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Cathy (W. Michigan)'s avatar

I cannot loathe or detest all tRump voters because I have several friends who voted for him . . . twice. It was simply “I am a Republican, and I always vote straight ticket”. It is legacy, apathy and lack of interest in current events that led them to vote that way. Some of them are now embarrassed and regretful.

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Jamie Baldwin's avatar

That kind of acquiescence to Trump despite his obvious disqualifying characteristics as well as support for Trump based on his willingness to bully others and to elevate self interest above the common good I find to be despicable.

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Ellen's avatar

I hope those friends have learned their lesson! We need them to vote blue.

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Gailee Walker Wells's avatar

Them I will pardon from my loathing.

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Roland (CA->WA)'s avatar

The loathing is well justified. I loathe even my own father, although of course I have to love him as well.

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Gailee Walker Wells's avatar

That is close to how I feel for my son. Not him. His beliefs and how he got that way.

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Fred WI's avatar

Wonder how many of us in this group of followers would privately vow to never vote for anyone but a Democratic candidate? My motto is Never a Republican again will I vote. Of course, my lifetime pledge is only worth 5 or so years.

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Gailee Walker Wells's avatar

Right now that is me.

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kdsherpa's avatar

Precisely: Hitler's minions.

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JDinTX's avatar

Same here, sorry but they are not my tribe… it is sad, but a good thing that they have been exposed

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Gailee Walker Wells's avatar

But what is crucial is that the exposure brings punishment and sends the vermin back under their rocks. Also, that more Americans become invested in our government and understand that it is everyone's responsibility to be a watchdog.

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Roland (CA->WA)'s avatar

👏 👏 👏 👏

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james wheaton (Jay)'s avatar

Or how about "Russia if you are listening...". I do not proclaim to be omniscient. But it was plain as the nose on my face in 2016 just what kind of scheister this guy was. My wife too, who is not as progressive as I am. Alot of us did. I have (or had) friends who hated HRC, would not vote for her, and felt or hoped Trump would "grow into the office" and abandon his awful campaign tactics, so voted for him. I try not to loath or detest them for that. I save that for the folks who voted for him again in 2020, after seeing for real that the real Trump was indeed the evil malignant clown we saw during the 2016 campaign. God almighty what damage this guy has done to our country. Our current SCOTUS is a cancer he laid on us that will go on and on regardless of what happens to Trump, and may ultimately be fatal.

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Gailee Walker Wells's avatar

The loathing did not begin until well into his term when his throng continued despite all of his lies and open corruption. That's when I began unfriending former friends who idolized him. He is deep into debt to the putmaster.

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Jamie Baldwin's avatar

I’m not sure the folks who drank the MAGA Kool-Aid are all that different from anybody else. We’re susceptible to such derangements. It’s like the folks given opioids after surgery who become addicted and are completely overcome by the addiction. We’d like to think it couldn’t happen to us, that it’s some defect in them. I’m not so sure that, under some circumstances anyone couldn’t be corrupted. We need to be vigilant and to understand what happened to folks duped by the MAGA fraud.

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Gailee Walker Wells's avatar

Were they duped, or is he their excuse to let their brand of freak fly?

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Roland (CA->WA)'s avatar

Most Republicans were staunch advocates of the Whites + Males Rule society long before 2016. My dad‘s favorite presidential candidate of all time was Mitt Romney, and then later John Kasich. To these people, like my dad, Trump was just the latest standard-bearer of what I call the Neanderthal society, the leftovers from Nazi Germany and the Confederacy.

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Gailee Walker Wells's avatar

I don't believe John Kasich ever spoke up for toad. We even considered him. My parents were lever pulling Republicans. I wish they were here now so I could experience their views. I have never voted for a party. Always for the platform as an independent. But with both Bushes, I have only supported the Democrats. So few seem to get that women like Hilary and Nancy are truly gifted leaders. I think it is because they are so strong. Which in men, would be a credit but in women is a liability.

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Roland (CA->WA)'s avatar

Sexism is an even deeper problem in this country than racism. Proof of that is we had Obama as president and we don’t have a woman yet. Multiple, multiple countries in Europe have had one or more female leaders of government. This is a backward country. The USA is a laggard. The next step is a woman who is POTUS. We already have Nancy Pelosi and Kamala Harris, so that’s the one major glass ceiling left, except for the Senate and Chief Justice of the Supreme Court.

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Gailee Walker Wells's avatar

I absolutely agree. So sad most Americans aren't aware of the quality of life there is not that of other countries. And the trumplets threatening to leave are not aware that the countries they are thinking of moving to have the things Biden is working to provide

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Jamie Baldwin's avatar

Yes, but for him, they might not have gone there. He brought out the worst in them. It’s a devilish business. Makes me think of that Emily Dickinson poem. (764, I looked it up. My reading, in this context: In this life, action is unavoidable and irreversible, so be careful what you do, how you commit.)

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Pensa_VT's avatar

They were systematically brainwashed in rallies, twitter, and fox entertainment. He used all tactics in the playbook of tyrants, very successfully.

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Gailee Walker Wells's avatar

But it didn't happen to us. That's the difference.

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Roland (CA->WA)'s avatar

Thank you Gailee. Those “evil” Americans are actually hard to distinguish from everyone else. They are closet white supremacists and sexists, but would be so offended if you pointed that out. (I’ve done that.) Trump supporters ignore his many crimes. They favor him because he stands for their society where whites rule and men rule. They are even hard pressed to admit *that.* They are in such abject denial of the truth of their relationship with Trump and white society. If you bring up Trump’s personal integrity issues, they just change the subject.

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Gailee Walker Wells's avatar

They diminish the quality of life for the rest of us.

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L duffy's avatar

Amen to that

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AshleyR TN's avatar

Gailee,

You’ve captured my consuming disgust of these diabolical beings as well!

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