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kim  CR🌈🌴😎's avatar

could we say all people are created equal? That would be a start.

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Hugh Spencer's avatar

Unfortunately, people are NOT created equal, that's just plain old biology. What is important is that people have EQUAL opportunities to grow and develop their potentials.

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David Herrick's avatar

Actually, people need more than opportunities to grow and develop their potentials. They need help.

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kim  CR🌈🌴😎's avatar

sounds like the Framers were not biologists

would you prefer the term equity?

what about the phrases, "equal in the eyes of the law?"

or health care? or education?

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Charlie Grantham (Tucson)'s avatar

Ploop! Your insights into human behavior are amazing /s

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Annie D Stratton's avatar

I truly hope that we get to the point where we can just drop "ploop" and words like it. Is the point to be demeaning? Dismissive? It makes more sense to simply pass by, or to express one's thoughts in a way that adds to the discussion. Please? It may have seemed cute at first. It's not. And it's becoming an abrasive code. Surely, as reasonable people, we can do better than that.

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Jun 13, 2021
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Christy's avatar

Christy15 min ago

If you lived in a community where everyone truly is loved and cared for whatever they bring instead of seeing everyone as a competitor it would be easier to understand that we are equal. It’s not about ability. A community where love for each other is the glue maximizes everyone’s individual strengths for what they bring to the whole. I’m not nearly as articulate as I want to be. We could learn from our indigenous communities. Tragic that Europeans tried to erase them.

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Annie D Stratton's avatar

Well put, Christy. You brought some beautiful clarity to what equal is really all about. Thank you.

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Christy's avatar

Thank you for your kindness Annie. I appreciate that you understood. ❤️

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Pensa_VT's avatar

Did you mean "erase" them?

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Christy's avatar

I certainly did. Thanks for catching that Penelope!

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Christine (FL)'s avatar

How about this dear kimceann…I’ve said it before.

I adore our differences. So I say…

We are all in this together. THERE IS ENOUGH TO GO AROUND.

Everyone, worldwide, say it once. Believe it once.

No more war. Instantly.

And Bingo is his name-o.

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kim  CR🌈🌴😎's avatar

in celebration of the magical creativity of diversity,

and the radical power of love to change the world

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Christine (FL)'s avatar

It’s Sunday. We can preach, Sister!

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David Herrick's avatar

Hello kimceann. Actually, by quoting the written words in the Declaration of Independence and mentioning our Constitution, Dick Montagne points us in the right direction. Of course there is no way to amend the Declaration, and little chance of amending the Constitution anytime soon, but founding documents are important and the words there matter.

Nevertheless, we are certainly free to say and write whatever we wish, including "all people are created equal", but that is not what the Declaration says, nor was it intended to say that. And that is a problem.

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David Herrick's avatar

I'm saying we are handicapped by having to refer to founding documents that do not mean exactly what we would like them to mean. Our founding "fathers" did not imagine women, slaves, native Americans or even non property-holding white men as full participants in democracy. That they are now is the result of subsequent amendment to the constitution. But more changes are needed, unlikely given the current political situation.

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Annie D Stratton's avatar

The founders of the USA were not a unified block with the same sense of values. There was considerable discussion about slavery, equity (by whichever term serves), access to opportunity for all (even for women) among the people pondering freedom. They knew it would be imperfect. Some did want to keep the status quo. Some clearly wanted independence so that they could access the rich lands to the west that the British had reserved for Indigenous people. Some wanted to keep slaves. Not all supported all of these things. One thing they did agree on was that things would change, and so they made it possible. There are weaknesses in our Constitution, but there are remarkable strengths as well. The ability to change it is one of them.

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David Herrick's avatar

Hello Annie. Everything you say is true. It is.

Nevertheless, our imperfect democracy is now threatened by a minority party determined to make voting more difficult in such a way as to make it impossible for the majority party to govern. Both the Electoral College and the US Senate are institutions which, by their very nature, make it impossible for the vote of a Californian or a New Yorker to carry the same weight as that of a Wyomingite or an Alaskan. Our Constitution shows many signs of the compromises that needed to be made in order for it to be ratified by the founders, but so much in the USA has changed over the years that the document is no longer capable -- despite amendments -- of guaranteeing that essential legislation strongly desired by a large majority of Americans will become law. When 3/4 of the states are required to ratify amendments to the Constitution and Wyoming's 600,000 citizens are given the same weight as California's 40,000,000, something is screwed up. This is not democracy, it is not equitable, and it will lead to some very negative consequences, probably sooner than most Americans imagine.

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